<p>How did an Obama speechwriter find himself getting rolled in the freezing Jersey shore surf? A search for something better, some common ground with a Joe Rogan brother-in-law. He didn't find "common'' ground. But he may have found something better. We compare our surf journeys. (His is funnier than mine).</p>

How did an Obama speechwriter find himself getting rolled in the freezing Jersey shore surf? A search for something better, some common ground with a Joe Rogan brother-in-law. He didn't find "common'' ground. But he may have found something better. We compare our surf journeys. (His is funnier than mine).

It's Only Drowning (David Litt)

Conflict of Interest is a podcast about the world, through a discerning lens of journalism, politics and above all Vermont. Kevin Ellis goes against the grain of today’s politics and celebrity culture to talk about the massive change all around us and how the world actually works. You will hear from Kevin’s Vermont neighbors AND national voices on difficult issues. Vermont is becoming, or always has been, a place, a real place. We are not interested in the Vermont of the tourist guides. We are not going to talk to Ben and Jerry’s ice cream. We will talk to them about what it is like to sell the company and do something new - and the frustrations, fear and uncertainty that comes with changing your life. Part interview, part history lesson about stuff you won’t see or hear on CNN or NPR.

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Conflict of Interest is a podcast about the world, through a discerning lens of journalism, politics and above all Vermont. Kevin Ellis goes against the grain of today’s politics and celebrity culture to talk about the massive change all around us and how the world actually works. You will hear from Kevin’s Vermont neighbors AND national voices on difficult issues. Vermont is becoming, or always has been, a place, a real place. We are not interested in the Vermont of the tourist guides. We are not going to talk to Ben and Jerry’s ice cream. We will talk to them about what it is like to sell the company and do something new - and the frustrations, fear and uncertainty that comes with changing your life. Part interview, part history lesson about stuff you won’t see or hear on CNN or NPR.

Conflict of Interest is a&nbsp;podcast about the world, through a discerning lens of journalism, politics and above all Vermont. Kevin Ellis goes against the grain of today’s politics and celebrity culture to talk about the massive change all around us and how the world actually works. You will hear from Kevin’s Vermont neighbors AND national voices on difficult issues. Vermont is becoming, or always has been, a place, a real place. We are not interested in the Vermont of the tourist guides. We are not going to talk to Ben and Jerry’s ice cream. We will talk to them about what it is like to sell the company and do something new - and the frustrations, fear and uncertainty that comes with changing your life. Part interview, part history lesson about stuff you won’t see or hear on CNN or NPR.

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It's Only Drowning (David Litt)

It's Only Drowning (David Litt)

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