Ivan Illich was a radical social thinker, priest, and philosopher who challenged the foundations of modern institutions—schooling, medicine, transportation, and more. His work exposed how systems designed to serve often end up diminishing human agency. In a conversation on masculinity, Illich is essential: he helps us see how modern life has uprooted men from embodied presence, meaningful work, and deep community—and what it might take to return.

Interview facilitated by ChatGPT

Voicing constructed with ⁠Elevenlabs⁠⁠⁠⁠

Concept, editing and production by Merijn de Haen

@ 2025 Undead Sages Podcast