Jason's Conversations #12 - Engineer, Clergyman, Lawyer & Author of Better Capitalism | Paul Knowlton
Paul Knowlton is a veteran a practicing attorney in Atlanta with an undergraduate degree in engineering. He helped build and operates an 18-attorney law firm in Atlanta, the Stanton Firm. Over the course of his career, he completed Seminary, while holding down full-time work as an attorney. Importantly, Paul is the author of Better Capitalism https://www.bettercapitalism.org/.That stack (engineer, lawyer, clergyman) is rare for a reason. Most people don't think in that many ways. Paul does, and you can hear it in how he frames the problems other people stay stuck on: how to run a firm, how to treat people, how to know when you have enough, and what business is actually for.
This conversation is less about pitching a book and more about the way one unusually-credentialed man has put his life and his work together — and what the rest of us can take from it.
What we get into:- The career path: civil engineer → trial attorney → law firm owner → clergyman, and why each step happened- How seminary training quietly reshaped the way he practices law- Running an 18-attorney firm on the principle of "work to live," not "live to work"- His take on Mars Inc., a $117B family-owned company that bakes "mutuality" into its contracts and still outperforms Coca-Cola- The Gravity Payments story: a CEO who capped his salary at $1M, raised everyone to $70–90K, and grew the business- How CEO-to-worker pay ratios went from 20:1 to as high as 3,000:1- Why the "invisible hand" is misunderstood — and the dishwasher story that proves it- How to define "enough" with real numbers, not vibes- Why faith and ethics belong in business conversations — and why CSR and ESG keep missing the mark- Courage as a skill you can buildWhether you run a company, work inside one, or just buy things from them, you'll come away thinking differently about what business is for — and about the kind of person who's willing to look hard at it.Chapters00:00 — Preview00:30 — Intro04:24 — What Better Capitalism actually is05:00 — Paul's seminary + engineering origin story15:00 — How seminary training shaped his law practice18:00 — The Milton Friedman problem21:45 — Defining "enough" with real metrics23:50 — Mutuality and Adam Smith's Theory of Moral Sentiments26:28 — Inside Mars Inc.27:00 — Running an 18-attorney firm on these principles40:45 — The Gravity Payments case study46:30 — The CEO-to-worker pay ratio problem49:00 — Why this isn't CSR or ESG51:50 — Mindset, collaboration, and the golden rule54:30 — Capitalism as engineered software56:00 — Why the market doesn't self-correct57:30 — The invisible hand, properly understood58:40 — The dishwasher story01:00:42 — "The worst system except for all the others"01:13:00 — Handling the "that's socialism" pushback01:16:14 — Why Better Capitalism needs support to grow01:22:20 — The success stories he wants to tell next01:25:00 — Courage as a practiceGet the book: Better Capitalism — https://www.amazon.com/Better-Capital...Learn more / support the work: https://www.bettercapitalism.org/ • Engineer, Attorney, Seminarian | The Origi... Engineer. Attorney. Seminarian. | The Original Mind of Paul Knowlton, Author of Better Capitalism.mp4