The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast

Jeremy Yang on Paid Ads Strategy and the SEO-SEM Divide


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In this episode, Jeremy Rivera sits down with Jeremy Yang, founder of Digital Goliath, to explore the often-siloed world of paid advertising and how it intersects with SEO. Managing over $450,000 in monthly ad spend, Jeremy Yang shares brutal truths about Google Ads setup mistakes, the death of exact match keywords, and why most businesses fail at Meta advertising before they even start.

From offshore Google support nightmares to the "bullets in the chamber" framework for platform selection, this conversation reveals what seven years of hands-on PPC experience teaches you about digital marketing that no certification ever will.

Guest

Jeremy Yang
Founder, Digital Goliath
Website | LinkedIn

Jeremy founded Digital Goliath seven years ago and currently manages about $450,000 per month in ad spend across Google Ads and Meta platforms. Based in Sydney, Australia, he works with small to mid-sized businesses and white labels for larger agencies, specializing in high-accountability, hands-on campaign management.

Key Topics Discussed
The SEO-SEM Divide (00:00 - 05:00)
  • Why paid ads and SEO teams rarely communicate
  • Operational intensity differences between channels
  • Knowledge-sharing culture in PPC vs. SEO communities
  • Why Google gives advertisers more data than SEOs get
  • Google Ads Setup Nightmares (05:00 - 10:00)
    • The fox guarding the henhouse: letting Google set up your campaigns
    • Offshore vs. onshore Google support experiences
    • Most common setup errors (cramming everything into one campaign)
    • Why following scripts doesn't work in modern PPC
    • The Death of Exact Match (10:00 - 15:00)
      • How Google Ads has shifted to theme-based campaigns
      • Everything is "broad-ish" now regardless of match type settings
      • Competitor brands sneaking into your keyword auctions
      • Performance Max and the return of negative lists
      • ROAS-based campaign structuring for e-commerce
      • Display Ads: Remarketing Only (15:00 - 20:00)
        • Why display should only be used for remarketing
        • The spammy site problem and how to exclude them
        • Diminishing returns on display, YouTube, and discovery feeds
        • Strategic use of minimal display budgets ($10-20) for brand presence
        • Platform Selection Framework (20:00 - 30:00)
          • "How many bullets you got in the chamber?" - the content asset question
          • Meta is about burnout: why you need consistent creative production
          • When to go 80% Google, 20% Bing (service businesses without video)
          • When Meta makes sense (businesses with UGC and video capabilities)
          • Real-world example: Bubble.com Casting (children's modeling agency)
          • Cost Realities Nobody Discusses (30:00 - 35:00)
            • High-CPC industries: $200/click for tow trucks, $150/click for credit cards
            • Why $30/click for lawyers isn't unusual
            • Budget requirements for competitive industries
            • When to rely on Performance Max vs. traditional search campaigns
            • SEO Value Proposition for Small Business (35:00 - 45:00)
              • If you run out of ad budget, your campaign's over
              • SEO builds appreciable assets that compound over time
              • The upscale effect vs. the burn rate of paid ads
              • Working with ads teams to target expensive keywords organically
              • Client filtering: not every client is worth acquiring
              • AI Overviews and the Future of Search (45:00 - 55:00)
                • ChatGPT ads platform: $60-80 CPMs for businesses spending $1M+
                • The "charge and forget" model vs. nuanced ad platforms
                • AI overview impact: 25-40% traffic loss for publisher sites
                • The measurement problem: observing something changes it
                • 100 searches = only 20% consistent results in AI answers
                • Why SEOs should be essential communicators, not siloed specialists
                • The Human-Bot Sandwich (55:00 - 65:00)
                  • Bots don't have money - humans are still the end buyers
                  • Layers of bots between seller and buyer (ChatGPT → Google → Website → LLM content)
                  • Why bots reward human-friendly content
                  • Subject matter expertise cannot come from LLM tools
                  • The Ouroboros effect: AI eating its own tail
                  • Content Strategy: Two Approaches (65:00 - 75:00)
                    • Keyword clustering tool approach (top 10 URLs, top 100 keywords)
                    • Expert-to-expert conversation approach
                    • Why genuine conversations extract better targeting data
                    • Internal interviews vs. external podcast approach
                    • Example: Precast walls installation expert interview
                    • Commercial viability: reaching people with purchasing power
                    • Future-Proofing Agencies (75:00 - End)
                      • Bolstering the playbook with AI-assisted competitive analysis
                      • Moving away from "algorithm whisperer" tactics
                      • Client differentiation through direct communication
                      • Reducing churn by being present and accessible
                      • Building systematic approaches to content multiplication
                      • Best Quotes

                        "If you really want things to go fast, you got to go into paid ad space."

                        "For ads, the intensity is a lot higher. When your clients are doing ads, the stakes feel higher. They're more demanding. You have to be hovering around the computer. Things go wrong and things have to be fixed straight away."

                        "Everything is broad-ish now. Doesn't matter how you set it. Competitor brands can sneak in, whereas that's never happened before. So exact match is no longer exact match."

                        "How many bullets you got in the chamber? If you go 'Let's do this for three months' and you got like four assets, I'm like 'Where'd you get these four assets?' You go 'We shot it a year ago and the guy's gone now.' I don't know if you're going to last three months."

                        "Meta is about burnout. So you got to refill and replenish the tank."

                        "Since I started seven years ago, I only believe in using display ads for remarketing."

                        "If you have one product line that has 1.2X and 8X ROAS acceptable, that's not going to work because it's too scattered. Law of averages will kill you."

                        "Bots don't have money to spend. If you want something to happen, you still got to make sure it works for the last person who's going to be in the chain."

                        "SEO should recognize that this is an essential game now. It's not even optional anymore. They can't be working in silos. They've got to be a communicator."

                        Key Takeaways

                        The SEO-SEM divide persists largely due to operational intensity differences — paid ads require constant monitoring and rapid response, while SEO operates on longer timelines with more methodical testing and community knowledge-sharing.

                        Google's ad platform has shifted from granular keyword control to theme-based, broad-match campaigns, with Performance Max becoming the dominant model, requiring advertisers to focus on ROAS-based campaign structuring rather than traditional keyword segmentation.

                        Display advertising should be reserved exclusively for remarketing with clear offers, as the diminishing returns come very quickly on display, YouTube, and discovery feeds — smart advertisers allocate minimal budgets ($10-20) to maintain brand presence across touchpoints.

                        Platform selection depends on your content fuel supply — if you can't consistently produce fresh video and creative assets, Meta will burn you out quickly; service businesses without video capabilities should focus 80% on Google Search with 20% on Bing once search is optimized.

                        The future of marketing requires breaking down silos between SEO and paid ads teams, viewing performance through blended ROAS rather than isolated channel metrics, and creating content systems that repurpose assets across multiple platforms rather than treating ad creative as disposable.

                        In the emerging AI-driven search landscape, the "human-bot sandwich" principle matters most — bots don't have money, so content must ultimately serve humans even as it passes through multiple algorithmic layers, with genuine subject-matter-expert conversations producing far richer content than keyword-optimized articles alone.

                        Resources Mentioned
                        • Digital Goliath - digitalgoliath.com.au
                        • Digital Goliath Blog - digitalgoliath.com.au/blogs
                        • ROAS Calculator - digitalgoliath.com.au/roas-calculator
                        • CPC Calculator - digitalgoliath.com.au/cpc-calculator
                        • Google Ads Management Services - digitalgoliath.com.au/google-ads-management-services
                        • Social Media Ads Management - digitalgoliath.com.au/social-media-ads-management
                        • SEOteric (Matt Brooks) - seoteric.com
                        • SEO Arcade - seoarcade.com
                        • Unscripted SEO - unscriptedseo.com
                        • Companies/Examples Mentioned
                          • Bubble.com Casting (Children's modeling agency in Australia)
                          • Meta Ads Library
                          • Google Transparency Center
                          • Performance Max
                          • Ahrefs
                          • SEMrush
                          • SE Rankings
                          • Connect with Jeremy Yang
                            • Website: digitalgoliath.com.au
                            • LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jeremy-yang
                            • Location: Sydney, Australia (Servicing Worldwide)
                            • Phone: 1300 347 677
                            • ...more
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                              The Unscripted SEO Interview PodcastBy Jeremy Rivera