Stop drifting and discover your covenant pathway to a preferred future. Veteran missionary Terry Hoggard reveals a transformative three-movement practice: foundation, strategic insight, and covenant with God. This isn't goal-setting—it's positioning yourself in the center of what God is doing. This calibration time gives God opportunity to download fresh vision for your next season.

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See the full episode transcript below.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: Your Covenant Pathway to a Preferred Future with Terry Hoggard

Brian: Welcome to the podcast today, friends. I have a great family member and friend and a co-laborer. We work together on some projects, some kingdom projects. Terry Hoggard is with us, and we are discussing something today. We're at the outset of the new year. I think these dynamics could be applied anytime. I don't think we have to do a reboot just in January, right, Terry?

Terry: It's a great moment to capture in my heart, so I love it. I'm cleaning up everything I know to do with the old year going out, and I want to be there hands wide open saying, "Here I am, Lord. I've got some things to talk to You about, and I'm sure You have some things to say to me."

Brian: Amen. Yes, absolutely. And sometimes people will listen to an episode like six months later. I put out something recently encouraging people to think about 90-day years—the winter season, the spring season, summer, fall. You can continually start afresh, start anew. But definitely at the beginning of our year is a great time. People are of this mindset, aren't they, in January? It's just a natural tendency, it seems.

Meet Terry Hoggard

Terry Hoggard has served for 30 years as a missionary leader across Europe with the Assemblies of God. He's provided pastoral leadership in Rome, Brussels, Copenhagen, and Malmö, Sweden. He has also equipped international teams and built cross-cultural networks around the world, including Asia, throughout his ministry. And Terry and his wife Ruthanne, my cousin on my dad's side, continue to invest in leaders globally. Thank you for being here. And what else could you say about the Lord's workings in your life currently?

Terry: Well, at this moment I'm still highly engaged with the network of churches, so I still have intimate connection to the four churches that you mentioned. But in early 2004, I think, we built out what we called FEIC—Fellowship of European International Churches. It's an incredible network still going strong.

And then in 2011 we met for a summit. Every year we'd gather, and in 2011 we were praying on our way to say goodbye. A friend of mine, his name is Al Perna, was praying, and he just felt like the Lord was saying, "Now's the time to extend the tent. We've been here together for almost a decade, but there's all these other churches and the movement of the nations and the diaspora." Three times God spoke to us. We have to do something.

Well, at this moment, our leader of the Assemblies of God World Missions was brand new. His name was Greg Mundus. I said, "Greg, you know we have FEIC. How would you feel about us bringing all the regions—Africa, Asia Pacific, Europe, Eurasia, Latin America, Northern Asia—and begin to create a network that would allow each one of these regions to be intimately connected internally, but by expansion they have the whole world?" And Greg said, "That's a good idea."

Brian: So that came out of prayer both in your own life and in partnership with others. Pattern recognition—what the Lord is continuously saying and doing. How important is it for all of us to be people of prayer, to be connected with others in prayer, to live our best calling before God?

Terry: Absolutely. In fact, all those things—it's all about the capacity of the community. These guys were lined up behind me or around me, and I didn't even know that this was something that anyone was percolating. I think God spoke sovereignly in that moment. And from that initiative, God birthed something that was just so amazing.

Brian: Percolating. I like that. Percolating in the Holy Spirit. I had a friend who said, "Kingdom currency runs on kingdom connections." That's vital, isn't it, for all of us to have quality, authenticity, kingdom connectivity so that the Holy Spirit can run on that?

Terry: Absolutely.

Three Words: Clarity, Closure, Catalytic

Brian: This is a time, Terry. I was actually thinking this morning about three words that begin with C: clarity, closure, and catalytic. What could you say about just the need to get clarity from the Lord, to maybe bring closure looking back to some things that need to close, and turn to the future and be catalytic with new things that need to open up? What do you think about that? Clarity, closure, catalytic.

Terry: Well, I guess I would say this. I think in every situation, but specifically in these kinds of things that are strategic and they're emerging, I think it's the posture of your heart. If you have something you want to take to the Father and you want to talk about it, it's a wonderful thing. But if you just go saying, "Lord, I'm not sure what it is. Let clarity come. Let there be catalytic realities that would confirm that this is what You want me to do." I know there's a lot of things we can do—we can read books and we can hear other things—but I think the seed is born out of the heart. And the posture and the positioning of the heart would be absolutely critical.

Brian: Yeah. And the partnership with the Creator in the prayer and the positioning ourselves to receive new initiatives and to really begin to pray them into being, right?

Terry: Yeah.

The Three Movements Toward Your Preferred Future

Brian: Now, you recently shared something with me, at my request, something that you and your wife Ruthanne go through every holiday season approaching the new year. You pursue—you're really going after a pathway that leads to a preferred future. I appreciate you being willing to share this personal practice that you do with your wife, but I think it can apply to all of us. What is that approach? What are those three movements? I'd just love to hear about that again.

Terry: Here's what it really is. My first expression is that I want to openly open my heart and openly confess. I'm here at the end of 2025, and I have some notes here that I carried out of this same moment a year ago. And, Lord, I know there are things here that I was so eager to engage, and somehow along the way, as much as God did glorious things, I think I left this one not unattended, but I didn't bring it into fulfillment.

So I began something knowing that. And then I began to realize this time—there's always a way it works. The first thing that struck my heart was foundation. And what I knew was I needed a foundation that was solid and sure. Because to live out the mandate of God is something that really needs to be built around the most powerful platform that anyone could stand on. I don't want to have one foot up on a ledge. I don't want to be right to the center or right to the left. I want to be right in the center of what God is doing. So that was really important to me.

The second thing that I found would be important to me is not just foundation, but that I wanted to have the opportunity to have strategic insight. Because I know there are things here that I need to see to get beyond where I am. And I want that to be a reality.

And then the other thing was that I wanted to come to this place where I would sort of make it a covenant with God—that these things that I've written and spoken with my wife about, and one of my daughters came with us (she loves to do this thing as well), I want it to be not just a matter of words and not even commitment as much as—I do love commitment—but I said, "Lord, before I leave this time of prayer, we spent the whole hour, two hours actually, doing our work and writing and praying at the end. But I want this to be a locked-in covenant so that I am being provoked every single day when I just stop and pray." I've been doing it now. I'm doing a lot of Bible reading and looking into the whole foundation thing because I think that's important. I think if we don't get a foundation right, we can somehow be swept away unintentionally, but it can be very traumatic.

Brian: So the basics, the basic foundational elements—the Word of God, prayer, consecration. And so you prioritize that and build off of that. And you're tapping the power of covenant. Correct me if I'm wrong, Terry—I'm learning, trying to learn all the time—but I'm not sure that many modern-day Christ followers fully understand or understand as much as they should about covenant, how God is a covenant God.

→ See the show notes page at jesussmart.com/363

Commitment vs. Covenant

Terry: Oh yeah. I came to Christ in 1970. I was 16 years old. I was from a Christian family, but it was commitment that captured me. I'm there listening to this speaker, and he said, "I want to just tell you something. The bottom line is this: Jesus did not die 50%, 60%, 70%, 80%, 90%, 95%, 99.5%. Jesus laid everything down. He committed His life for this possibility for us to be reconciled to Him."

And he says, "Here's the struggle that I have. Most of you here obviously have some sort of draw, but the bottom line is your threshold is this: 'I want to be able to make sure my life makes my mama happy and my pastor proud.'"

And then he went back. "So if you're going to walk with Jesus, you've got to lay everything down." He was a football player, and he said, "You know what really aggravates the heck out of me? You come into a game that you've lost, the guys get in, they start laughing and goofing around and snapping each other with their towels. And our coach or someone would say, 'Hey, if you had that much energy in you, why didn't you leave it on the field?'"

Brian: Yeah, yeah.

Terry: So commitment is the thing that fires us. Covenant is the thing that saves us.

Brian: And draws on that partnership with God to execute, right?

Terry: So you live close. You live in the threshold of His presence because that's where I promised to be.

Brian: The capacities of Christ via the Holy Spirit flowing through us. Sometimes I think we probably have a tendency—we don't want to do a spiritual inventory or do an audit on how our year was because we're afraid of what we might surface. We may feel bad about it, but we have to overcome that, don't we?

Terry: We sure do. And I remember back in the days, in the '70s, it was in our church and maybe many others—it was this watch night, and the pastor was actually calling us out. "There are some things that you need to leave behind in this year." I need to leave a lot of stuff behind in 1970, I can tell you that. But he just gets us to the altar. It was just this moment—just left refreshed. My heart has been unburdened. I just feel as if He's a God who loves me so much. I know He's ready to help me walk in a different way. And if I make my covenant out of this commitment, the bottom line is I believe God can craft things into our hearts in such a timely manner that had we not made that pivot, it might have gotten right over us.

The Power of First Fruits and Spiritual Inventory

Brian: There's a power in using the first fruits principle, isn't there, Terry? Like taking that first period of time in the new year or in a week or even on a daily basis, consecrating it to God, and it draws the rest of it under an increased blessing and influence. Do you look then for significant things that you feel God is speaking to you, revealing or fulfilling in your lives at that point in time?

Terry: Oh yeah. I was a pastor for many years, and about a decade ago, Convoy of Hope invited me to come and be their vice president. At the time, I was leading the international program. Now I'm leading global network support. But when I was a pastor, I would let people know. I'd say, "If you want to know what the theme is going to be for the next year, you need to be at the watch night service." When we finished, I'd say, "Here's where we're headed. Here's what God is saying." I would probably have half the year already mapped out in my head because I was trying to take the things that the Lord was telling me and not making them just my call—but I wanted to say these are priorities, these are principles, these are things. And I had so much fun being a pastor because I'm preaching all the stuff that's just been lit up inside me. And of course, when you're pretty enthusiastic and people are tracking with you, it's like, "Man, we are just in a good space"—not just me, the community.

Brian: So we have to be willing to engage this and look in the mirror and look at God and allow the Word and the Lord, the Spirit, to reflect back to us a real-time, realistic appraisal of where we're at. Let them judge us in that sense of a positive appraisal. And then the pivots that we need to make, the changes, the new things we need to lean into can come out of that. Can somebody do this? What if they missed the first of the year? Can they do it anytime?

Terry: Anytime, man. Anytime that your heart or your spirit is being pricked, or you feel this sense in your own spirit that maybe you're struggling with some things at this particular moment—and it may be March or it might be October—the bottom line is I'm going to step inside here and I'm going to be brave enough to do a personal spiritual inventory. And the more you call yourself out, the more you weaken whatever it is that's trying to invade space that has been consecrated to God.

Brian: Yes. Amen. You talk about embracing the spiritual position that the Lord is requiring of you to make these changes so that they can be actualized or evident, realized. What could you say about that? Just an honest appraisal of embracing the spiritual position required.

Terry: Well, I think for me most often when I make that covenant, when I say I'm going to do that, I change something. So there have been seasons when I would get up very early and I would pray in the morning and read my Bible. And that was good, and it worked for a while. And then I came to understand I don't need these 45 minutes at 6 in the morning that's going to last the whole day. So then I would go to doing things kind of in measure. I'm a coffee drinker, so most folks would pray at their meals, but I'm good enough to pray for my coffee. And every time I'm doing this with someone in front of me, I want to tell you what the Lord was kind of talking to me about this morning. And so I just want to integrate it into my personhood. And at the same time, I want to model it so consistently that if I'm mentoring or discipling someone, I can put something in their hands that may be where they would want to start.

→ See the show notes page at jesussmart.com/363

The Power of Community and Partnership

Brian: Yes. And be exhortational and motivating in that sense. And not everyone is married, but a lot of people are married. Could you talk about what it means to be a couple in this together, in mission together? But also for those who aren't married, maybe with their quality friends or their boyfriend or girlfriend or their fiancé.

Terry: You know, I married your cousin. I have a Del Turco, so I'm very blessed to do that. But the thing about Ruthanne is she had no idea as to what I was going to do because I didn't know. I went to Bible school simply because I could not get into the police academy and I did not want to stay in Wichita. We meet at CBC, Central Bible College in Springfield, and she said, "So what are you going to do?" I said, "Yeah, I really don't know. I wanted to be a cop or a coach, but I don't know." "You're not going to be a pastor?" "No, no. Me, a pastor? Come on."

And then in 1980—we got married in '74—I felt God literally just speaking. This was the day of Keith Green, so that could be a big influence. And I just felt the Lord speaking to me so profoundly in that moment. It was 1980. I was pastoring this new church. And then in 1984, our daughters were maybe 4 and 6, and Ruth and I had been married for a decade. In that moment, we were chosen to be commissioned as missionaries. So I am at this point in my 42nd year of being a commissioned missionary, living in those four cities you talked about and doing a whole lot of other things. When I came to Convoy of Hope, I went everywhere. That's just how it landed for me. When I felt the prompting of the Lord, I was out of the chute and ready to go.

Brian: So from just the passion to get out of Wichita, the iteration of your calling, the promptings, steerings along the way—we never really can foresee the whole plan at once, can we? It might be overwhelming, frankly. But the Lord, the grace comes. And if you're married or if you have quality relationships with others in the body of Christ, this is important. We don't want to be in a silo. We want to be able in partnership with others to hear God. It affects us, doesn't it? Relationships.

Terry: Yeah. Well, and the fact is it was Ruthanne—who knows even how much that brought to our marriage? She brings a great heritage of godly people. Her grandparents, her siblings, my father-in-law. There's just—like you, you're in that same tribe. Could well be that I needed to marry a Del Turco to make my way to be a missionary.

Brian: Well, I mean, it's not good for the man to be alone, and "he who finds a wife finds a good thing, obtains favor," right? And the wife completes a lot of what's missing. But if you're not married or if your marriage has broken up, there is still this capacity within relationships within the body of Christ—being connected to great spiritual leaders, great quality fellow believers in the Lord, prayer partners and friendships. That is a dynamic that we need. I think the Apostle Paul said, "I have a great desire to come to you and to complete what is lacking in your faith." We...

You can't see what's coming over the horizon, but your faith can reach it now. Brian Del Turco explores four steps to cultivate over-the-horizon belief: worship and pray over the horizon (prayer as predicting the future), visualize and prophesy what's coming, fix your belief set points with sanctified desire, and act as if—filling your water pots before the wine arrives. Discover why desire means "of the heavens". Like Abraham crossing into unseen territory, you're called to exploit horizons.

----------

See the full episode transcript below.

👉 Support the podcast (use the Smart Edit BMAC page): buymeacoffee.com/SmartEdit

👉 Explore more episodes: JesusSmart.com/podcast

If this episode gave you a fresh perspective on Kingdom Living, share it with someone who needs encouragement.

Be sure to follow the podcast—each episode is designed to help you think more clearly and pursue the kind of life only Jesus makes possible.

Stay current via The Smart Edit newsletter—Elevate your faith. Live smart. Make an impact. Free. Weekly. 5 minutes to grow. Sign up at JesusSmart.com.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: Over-the-Horizon Questing: Faith for What's Next

Listener: The Jesus Smart podcast, to me, intelligently offers its listeners interesting discussions on important topics.

Brian: In this episode, it's all about cultivating our over-the-horizon belief, faith, and action.

There's a real sense in which our horizons are placed on a curve, and we look at a horizon just like Christopher Columbus sailing to new territory across the terra firma. So we too—we walk by faith, we sail by faith and not by sight.

I want to share with you for just a few moments how we can worship and pray over the horizon. Number two, how we can visualize in faith and prophesy over the horizon. Number three, we can fix our belief set points over that curvature in our life. We can't see it yet, it's not manifested yet, but our mind is already there. We're already touching it with prayer. We're already touching it with proclamation. And number four, let's make it complete. Let's be more complete in our faith and begin to act as if—begin to take action with what's coming over the horizon.

This is Brian Del Turco. Thanks for connecting with me today on Jesus Smart, the podcast.

What Is a Horizon?

A horizon is simply a place where the sky and the earth meet, right? Whether we're looking at land or water. Lord Byron is regarded as one of the greatest English poets. He was also a politician. Here's his statement: "Between two worlds, life hovers like a star, twixt (or between) night and morn, upon the horizon's verge."

When we come to Jesus, when we are transformed by Jesus and begin to walk with Jesus, we truly become people of the horizon.

I believe Abraham was first called a Hebrew in Genesis 14. The word Hebrew, scholars believe, could be derived from a Hebrew word meaning to traverse or to pass over, to cross over, referring to Abraham, who was sent by God and crossed over into the promised land. Abraham is set forth in the Scriptures as a prototype of the faith person for us. And Paul says in Galatians that we are the seed of Abraham in Christ. There's a Hebrew in the truest sense—a person who leaves one territory and crosses over into a new place.

Just like Abram left Ur of the Chaldeans, he traveled along the Euphrates River northwest to Haran in northern Mesopotamia, that Fertile Crescent region in the Middle East, and later in Genesis 12 was called down to Canaan into the promised land—a total, I believe, of about a 1,500-mile journey.

In Hebrews 11 it says that by faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place—listen to this—which he was to receive for an inheritance. And he went out not knowing where he was going, for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

Now, my friend, what do you feel God may be asking you to cross over into as you quest after the horizons that He is setting before you? You will need over-the-horizon belief and applied faith.

→ Discover the four complete steps for over-the-horizon living at jesussmart.com

Living for the Ultimate Horizon

Let me read a Scripture to you from 2 Peter, chapter 3: "We are looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God. According to His promise, we are looking for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells."

My goodness. We are people of the horizon. That is the ultimate horizon—the coming of the day of God, the Lord's return, which will initiate the restoration of all things that Jesus spoke of. And there's some sense in which we hasten that day of God. Now we're going to have to explore that sometime.

And we're looking for the new heavens and the new earth. But all along the way there are many horizons in light of this macro horizon which is coming. And the Bible says that we now taste the powers of the age to come. And we begin to live now, my friend, a lifestyle of restoration in the now, foreshadowing the time of restoration of all things.

Now, what are those things that we can do to apply our faith practically, to begin to take action, to begin to orientate ourselves towards over-the-horizon living? Maybe it's a new geographical location God is calling you to. Maybe it's a change, a pivot in your career, your business, your work. Maybe it's some phase of education, maybe it's a new relationship, maybe it's starting a family, some interest, some cause, some justice issue that you're to pursue and quest after.

These are all many horizons that God may very well be calling you to and setting before you, which are just reflections of that macro horizon which is to come. Yes, and we begin to live now with over-the-horizon belief and faith and faith-born action in our lives right now. It's an adventure, it's exciting. You, as a human created in God's image, are wired to be facing horizons.

Step One: Worship and Pray Over the Horizon

So what can we do? Number one, worship and pray over the horizon. Remember the curvature of the earth. You can't see in the natural what's coming. You have not experienced it yet, but it's there. And you want to begin to pick it up with that radar of faith. And you want to begin to worship and pray over the horizon.

There's a real sense in which prayer is predicting the future. Think about the word prediction: "pre," meaning before or in advance, and "diction," meaning to speak or a saying. A prediction is a saying in advance of what's coming.

And what worship does is it transforms us further, it conditions us, and even more, it positions us in faith. And we can now predict in worship and in prayer—to say beforehand, to declare. Even our English word "predict" comes from the Latin, which means beforehand and to say. That is a prediction.

Think about Psalm 139. It says that even before we were conceived, all the days that were ordained for us were written down in Your book, O God. David says we want to say those pages. We want to predict and pray those pages and soak it all in a sentiment, an attitude of worship. Yes, declaring who God is.

Becoming Christocentric in our worship and adoration, allowing the person of Jesus Christ to eclipse all the drama, all the distraction, all the resistance—to get so big in our purview that we pray with a faith which will not falter, with a faith which is not double-minded, but is sincere and single-minded. And we believe we've picked up something of the mind of the Lord, of the counsel of the Lord, and we're praying over the horizon to that effect, to effectualize what wants to happen on the earth. Things want to happen in the heart of the Father that happen through us. It's a partnership.

Step Two: Visualize in Faith and Prophesy Over the Horizon

So worshiping and praying over the horizon, number one. Number two, visualize in faith and prophesy over the horizon. So we get before the Lord in His Word, in worship, in prayer. And now we begin to speak forth and to prophesy what we believe the Lord is saying, what His promises are to you, what He's leading you into.

We begin to visualize in faith. The Bible word "prophecy" in the New Testament means to forth-tell the counsel of the Lord, to speak forth the counsel of the Lord. See, the Bible says the mind of man plans his way, but the counsel of the Lord will stand—not only in yourself, but all around you. The minds of men and women are trying to plan certain ways and may even have thoughts about you. Your circumstances may be trying to say something about you and what your future looks like. But it's the counsel of the Lord that will stand.

And to prophesy in faith means to foretell that counsel, to speak it out. Speak it out over the curvature of your timeline. Let it address and begin to get on what's coming and begin to energize it in faith.

Here's what I want to say: Get the word of the Lord on it, and then get the word of the Lord on it. What do I mean? Get the counsel of the Lord, get the word of the Lord on that matter, and then through applied verbal faith, get that word on that matter, uphold it in faith. Release the creativity of God in faith. Speak forth in faith. Visualize and prophesy over the horizon.

Do I have a mirror here? Let me hold it up. Brian, what could it look like if on the most desired or even important or urgent edges in your life right now, if you were to consistently, on a daily basis, visualize in faith and prophesy on those horizons what you believe the counsel of the Lord is? There will be a momentum in the Holy Spirit, a momentum of releasing kingdom dynamics.

The old-school way of saying it is that prayer wheel, like that big flywheel. We get that prayer wheel moving, and every day we apply faith energy to it and we keep that momentum going.

→ Learn how to visualize in faith and prophesy effectively at jesussmart.com

Step Three: Fix Your Belief Set Points

Okay, maybe I can just podcast myself into a peak state of belief and faith. All right, number three, fix your belief set points. Listen, the Holy Spirit is calling you to believe for things. There are things that want to happen from the Father's heart. There is territory to possess. There are spaces to fill. There are things to catalyze and to initialize and to grow and develop that want to come into this earth. "May Your kingdom come. May Your will be done on the earth as it is in the heavens," in the Father's heart.

I recently discovered the word "desire." You know, David said in Psalm 37:4, "Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart." Desire means "of the heavens" or even "of the Father." Think of the word like "D-E" (of) and "SIRE" (to sire, or of the Father), or some would translate it "of the heavens."

You see, when your heart is connected with the heavens, the desire from above becomes a very special thing. There are things that the Father desires for you and me. There are things in the heavens that want to happen on the earth. And a big part of our faith is sanctified or set-apart desire, right? We need passion, we need desire. That's an element of faith.

When that woman who was hemorrhaging blood for 12 years and had gone through all of this thing with doctors and had been totally liquidated of her finances—and think of the fatigue and the shame and the reproach in that culture of her issue—she had desire. And she snuck up on the Lord and pressed through that crowd and probably got low to the ground and touched the hem of His garment. And Jesus didn't even know she was coming, and yet healing virtue flowed out of Him into her. And He turned around and said, "Who touched Me? I felt virtue or power go out of Me."

What is that? Desire, passion which will not quit. So fix your belief set points. I encourage you to journal—digitally on your app or old-school analog journal. Write down your belief set points. I don't know, maybe put them on index cards, put a little clip on them, throw those things in your purse or pocket, take it out once in a while and just scroll through those cards and pray and say and believe and keep it before you and remind the Lord. "Lord, I believe this desire in me is of You, and I'm aligning right now—of the heavens, desire of the heavens. I'm aligning my heart on this earth with Your heart in the heavens, and I'm looking for a connection to see these things happen."

Step Four: Act As If

All right, so number one again, worship and pray over the horizon. Number two, begin to visualize in faith and prophesy forth, foretell what's over the horizon. Number three, fix your belief set points and don't be afraid of desire. Okay, we're going to close the loop on this. Here's number four.

Let's be more complete in our faith and begin to act in faith. Let's begin to act as if. Prepare for the extraordinary. Fill your water pots to the brim with water so that Jesus can bring new wine into your life. Remember that Mary said to the servants, "Whatever He says to you, do it." Jesus said, "Fill those 20- to 30-gallon water pots with water to the brim." And after they did so, He transformed the water into wine.

Do you remember the Old Testament account where they were praying for rain, and in this instance they were to dig their irrigation ditches while it was dry and dusty? Even before the rains came, they began to act as if and really in effect began to create the channels and the distribution system of the miraculous and extraordinary which would come. And the Scriptures are replete with this acting as if.

What about Noah, who for 120 years built an ark in faith before it rained? They really, even at that time, did not know rain as we know rain today. It was a whole different water cycle system. Scriptures are replete with this. What about the woman who was in terrible debt? And the prophet said to her, "Go out and gather vessels, as many as you can from your neighbors." And as many vessels as she was able to gather in advance and prepare and act as if, so the oil came and filled those vessels up.

So beginning to act as if. Begin to think, begin to say, begin to emote as if. Try to allow your emotional life to really latch onto your renewed thinking life and begin to allow your emotions to rejoice. You know, it says in Proverbs that a merry heart has a continual feast. Joy is an important part of walking with God. The Bible says to be glad in the Lord. Our emotions are important.

So begin to act as if. Think as if. Feel as if. Begin to take action. If you're believing to move and get into a different space, begin to prepare for that. Begin to get rid of things. Begin to stage your house, I don't know. Begin to prepare. Go into minimalism. Create space for new things. Many ways that we can apply this practically.

→ Get practical examples of acting as if in faith at jesussmart.com

Walk with Supervision and Kingdom Friends

So what are your belief set points? Write them down. What do you feel is over the horizon? Keep them before you in faith. And the Holy Spirit, my friend, will give us supervision to see by faith over the horizon. You know, like a supervisor sees things that the average person in the enterprise does not see.

We are to look over the temporal, look over what's now in our face, and to have supervision or to supervise our walk of faith with the Lord and see beyond by faith. Let the eyes of our understanding in Ephesians 1 be enlightened by the spirit of revelation, the spirit of wisdom in Christ, and begin to supervise. Supervision—that's what we need.

Now, we need to run with others. We need to align with others in the body of Christ. Get in a group, get in a cluster. Ask God for a kingdom friend, ask Him for a couple kingdom friends. People of like precious faith that are on similar frequencies. Get planted in the community of faith that God wants you to be in for this season of your life. Run with others.

There are things that we must do, things that want to happen, things that we do individually and with others that we pursue edges on corporately. And it all fits, it all aggregates together across the nation and across the world in the body of Christ to advance the story of Jesus. It all adds up to that storyline, that narrative, that unfurling kingdom that is Jesus Christ. And we're looking for that new heavens and that new earth, my friend.

Closing

Would you share this with one or two of your friends? That's the most powerful form of syndication. Talk about it. If you talk about something with others, you'll have 2x, 4x the retention of the principles and the ideas that you're talking about. Even as you share it, even as you talk about kingdom stuff, there will be a special sizzle and kingdom dynamic on what you're saying and on your own retention and appropriation of these things in your life.

Now, why do we call this thing Jesus Smart? Is it because I'm smart? Are you kidding? No, it's because He comes to renew our minds. He says, "Learn from Me." And we're questing after His coattails to have the mind of Christ and to think after Him. And we believe that the future belongs to Him, the new heavens and the new earth. But we also believe that in the meantime, as a witness to Him for His story, He knows how this life works best. Jesus is brilliant. As we walk with Him, we will catch His brilliance in a unique way right where you're at right now.

What if you could see that struggling relationship, that stalled project, that personal challenge in an entirely different light—God's light? The same creative pattern God used in Genesis—speaking light over chaos—is available to recreate your situation right now. Discover six practical steps to release God's light over the areas where you need transformation. This is about supernatural vision that opens doors to new seasons. When God's light hits your chaos, creation begins.

----------

See the full episode transcript below.

👉 Support the podcast (use the Smart Edit BMAC page): buymeacoffee.com/SmartEdit

👉 Enhanced show notes: JesusSmart.com/361

👉 Explore more episodes: JesusSmart.com/podcast

If this episode gave you a fresh perspective on Kingdom Living, share it with someone who needs encouragement.

Be sure to follow the podcast—each episode is designed to help you think more clearly and pursue the kind of life only Jesus makes possible.

Stay current via The Smart Edit newsletter—Elevate your faith. Live smart. Make an impact. Free. Weekly. 5 minutes to grow. Sign up at JesusSmart.com.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: What Happens When God's Light Hits Your Situation

Coming up, how you see things—really how we see everything—can actually transform things, opening the door to new seasons. Welcome, friend. I'm Brian Del Turco.

I believe that Jesus Christ knows how our lives work best and that He is passionate about developing us as His followers, as intimate friends and co-agents in His kingdom. If you want to go further with King Jesus and His enterprise, this is the podcast for you. I'm glad you're here.

Jesus Dynamics: Ask, Seek, and Knock

We have a newish feature in the episode called Jesus Dynamics. Let's get right to it. I was driving somewhere recently, just about a week ago, and I felt like the Lord dropped this in my heart—Jesus' statement about asking, seeking, and knocking in the Sermon on the Mount. You can read about this in Matthew, I think it's chapter seven, probably in the Gospel of Luke as well.

In the Greek language, the tense is a little bit different. Greek has, I believe, six tenses, whereas English has only three. In this tense, as it was written, it means to ask and keep on asking, seek and keep on seeking, knock and keep on knocking, and the door will be opened.

Here's what I felt. It all starts with conversation with the Father. Ask, talk with Him, get His input. Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Don't lean on your own insight, but in all of your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct and make your pathways smooth. Ask, even request in prayer.

Then begin to seek, begin to probe, begin to explore, begin to step out, begin to lean forward, lean into scenarios and horizons and opportunities, and even lean into challenges to overcome them, my friend. And then knock. Do you know that knocking is an expression of faith? Just as asking is, knocking on doors, checking out opportunities, seeing what opens up—and then it creates a narrow pathway on the other side of that door that leads you into a new space, a new level, some new territory that the Lord has for you.

Remember, it's about perseverance. Ask and keep on asking. Same with seeking and knocking. And don't just stop with prayer. Begin to seek, begin to quest. Actually begin to put some feet to your prayers and go out. Start knocking, start building things, start creating, start innovating, start pressing into opportunities and challenges.

The Power of Seeing in a New Light

Well, I'm excited about this topic today. Father, we ask for new light, fresh, extraordinary light from You to break out of our heart. May we see with the eyes of our understanding, the eyes of our heart. We believe, Father, that You can bring transformation and change to things by how we see them supernaturally and not just naturally. Thank You, Father. We commit our time to You, in Jesus' name.

Someone may say something like this: "I was having problems in a relationship, but things turned for the better when I saw her in a new light. When I saw him in a new light. Now I'm filled with hope." We can apply that to anything. "I was disparaging the situation I was in. I was looking down upon it. I was really thinking negatively about it. But when I began to see it in better light, a new light, it began to turn. It began to be transformed."

You see, seeing things in a new light can create new possibilities.

Stephen Covey, in his wildly popular book The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, said that the way we see the problem is the problem. Does this resonate with you? It does with me. If we can just get the light of God on that issue, whatever it is, we will see it in an extraordinary light. Then you can call out the gold and even trigger, be catalytic to bring transformation.

Seeing Is Interpreting

Seeing things in a new light—I'm talking about an extraordinary light, not just natural light. I'm talking about insight. Seeing things in a new light is transformational. In a real sense, seeing is interpreting. Think about this with me.

In the natural, light reflects off an object. Maybe you're in a room somewhere—just look at an object. Or maybe you're outside. Look at a tree or look at an automobile. Light reflects off the object. It reflects off a person. It reflects off some landscape or some vista, and it enters your retina. And that visual information is transmitted to your brain, which then interprets what is seen.

Here's what this means: seeing actually happens in your mind, not in your eye. The eye is just a medium. It's just a portal. Seeing and interpreting actually happens in the mind. This is true in the natural. Your eyes and the optical nerves from your eyes to your brain are just simply the pathway, the gateway. Light reflects off of something, then we interpret what we see as we begin to grow in maturity. We give it meaning, we interpret it.

But can we take this a step further? Let's go above and beyond the natural. Because there is an insightful, extraordinary way to see things.

→ Discover how seeing with spiritual eyes transforms everything at jesussmart.com/361-seeing-new-light

Seeing things in a new light will give us the opportunity to understand and interpret things in a new, fresh way. I'm talking about the mental, emotional, and spiritual way that we see. Here are some examples. We begin to see that relationship in a new light. Maybe that seasoned, mature friendship has gone sour. We begin to see it in a new light. We begin to see it now as a diamond in the rough. We're both growing, and we're going to come into a new place as persons, and this relationship is going to come to a new level.

Maybe we see a challenge or an opportunity in a fresh light. Our question should be, "What's possible?" It shouldn't be a statement of "This is impossible." See the challenge, approach the opportunity, and see it in a fresh, extraordinary light.

What about that project? Can we see that project that we've been working on in a new light? Let me tell you, every project starts out with a high level of excitement. Then it enters a trough, it goes low. And many times projects don't make it through that trough and then begin to ascend again into a place of completion and maturity and fruitfulness. But can we see that project in a new light from God? It will achieve better results.

What about yourself? Instead of continuing to see yourself in that old light, can you see yourself in the light of God, in a new light? Higher design is possible and it's powerful.

God Is Light

Now, what could happen if we see things in a new light, an extraordinary light? We need more than natural light to truly live a successful life. We need extra-natural light. It's possible to be blind in the natural and to live an extraordinary life because you're seeing on the inside.

God's very nature is light. Can I tell you that John wrote in his letter in 1 John 1:5 that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all. We get caught up in darkness. But God is not in darkness. And as we draw close to Him and receive more of His presence, more of His light, more of His reality into our life, things will get better.

If the ultimate Designer is light, here's the question: How can we access it? Remember, He holds the higher design for everything—about your design, about your life, about your calling, about those good works you're destined to do, about your very life. The question is, how can we see things? Indeed, how can we see everything in this new, extraordinary light?

Do you know what Jesus said? Jesus said, "I am the light of the world. If you follow Me, you won't have to walk in darkness because you will have the light that leads to life." Do you see that? The light of Jesus leads us to life—abundant life, the God kind of life. God-designed life. It's another level of consciousness. It's a higher level of conviction from which we can live—resolute, directional, intentional, a heightened state of consciousness.

The New Testament says in Hebrews 1:3 that Jesus Christ is "the radiance of His [the Father's] glory and the exact representation of His nature, and He upholds all things by the word of His power." I love the way the Amplified translation renders this verse. "He, Christ, is the sole expression of the glory of God, the Light-being."

We are called to come to Christ and to yoke with Him as the Light-being. It says He is the out-raying or the radiance of the divine. Can we live a lifestyle that we would describe as radiant, a lifestyle that is within the out-raying of God Himself through Christ, the Light-being? This extraordinary light—God as light—comes to us via that second person of the Godhead, God's unique Son, Jesus Christ.

The Creation Pattern: Light Over Chaos

Now I just hope that some of these ideas can be a pointer to perhaps advance possibilities in your personal world, in my personal world, and through us, via us, into the world at large around us. Think with me about this dynamic. The earth at the beginning of creation was formless and void. We read this in Genesis chapter one. It's that Hebrew expression which means chaotic, uninhabitable, sterile, and a wasteland.

Now let's think about this. Then God said, "Let there be light" on day one of creation. Now, could it have been the manifest glory of God that was exhibiting and expressing that light? I think so, because we know from the Genesis account that the sun and the lights of the heavens were not created until day four. So what is this light on day one?

I think God was coming over that uninhabitable, sterile, chaotic situation and sort of turning Himself on to begin a re-creative process. Was it the light and glory of God in Jesus as the Son of God who shone over a darkened, chaotic earth? I suspect that it was. And then that creation process began.

It says in John, chapter one, verses three through five, "All things came into being by Him. Christ, in Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend or overpower it."

So God then begins to release His creativity and design through this process of creation or recreation. First He turns the light on. It's the glory of His presence through His Son. And we see that interplay and that harmonious cooperation with the Holy Spirit, the Son, and the Father in the creative process.

→ Learn the creation pattern you can apply to any situation at jesussmart.com/361-seeing-new-light

Now we're going back to seminal Genesis, early Genesis, for a dynamic that we can pull right into the present in Christ. This is how God creates and restores in our lives. Does something in your world right now seem chaotic? Does it feel like a wasteland? I think we can all identify and maybe list a few things where that's true in our lives or in our sphere of influence right now—things that we would like to see more of the creativity and design of God exhibited in.

Jesus can release brilliant light over that situation, just as He did at creation. Then the Father's redesigning word is released as a creative agent to create and to renew. Come on now. Say it again. Jesus can release brilliant light over that situation, that scenario you're in, that context, that challenge, that opportunity, even just as He did at creation. If He did it at that scale in that way in early Genesis, He can surely do it in your life right now. Then the Father's redesigning word is released to create and renew, redesign, to bring forth, to establish, to build things in your life.

Think of this as a kingdom template. We need to get into template thinking. Take that template in early Genesis and lay it over that relationship, lay it over that project, lay it over that domestic home life, lay it over your career. This is how God works in us and through us.

Seeing with the Eyes of Your Heart

So we really need to think, what are those one or two or three top areas in which you want to see the creativity of God activated? Don't think about it too long. When I first asked you that question, what immediately comes to mind? That's your gut talking to you. That's your intuition, your instinct. You're probably accurate. The first things that come up—don't overanalyze it. We all have them.

Here's the opportunity. Just like we said in the Jesus dynamic today about keep asking, keep seeking, keep knocking, we can articulate those areas before the Creator in prayer. Invite, even invoke—a more intense word—invoke the light of God. Call down heaven, call down the courts of heaven into those spaces to see them transformed into something new. Let that space become more reflective and more of a witness to the design of God, to the good things which come down from above.

You know, there's a proverb in the Book of Proverbs that says that a person is satisfied from above themselves. James says that every perfect gift comes down from the Father of Lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. He's not inconsistent with His children. He's consistent. He's a good, equitable, generous Father—something beyond even what we're hoping for.

I believe that as you lean into these areas, you can claim Ephesians 3:20. If you're praying about it, if you're positioning yourself well before the Father and allowing Him to bring the heart transformational issues as well—many times when we pray about a specific request, there's a deeper underlying heart issue at play that God is also working on. But something beyond—it says that God is able to do exceedingly, well beyond what we're hoping for or imagining or asking for, according to that power, that transformative power operative within us.

This is a real kingdom skill, a real kingdom tool. This is an adequate metaphor that we can put into our kingdom toolkit—a kingdom skill. And that is seeing with the eyes of our heart, not our natural eyes. Seeing with the eyes of our heart.

You see, one of the main things that Jesus does in our lives is to wean us away from merely seeing with our natural sight. Paul says in 2 Corinthians, I think it's chapter five, "We walk by faith and not by sight." So one of the main things that He's at work at in our lives is to wean us away from natural sight, natural hearing, natural touch, and get us to see with the eyes of our heart, get us to hear His voice on the inside.

The Apostle Paul prayed a prayer for the ages in Ephesians 1:17-18 that we would do well to echo this prayer in our own life. In a real sense, enter into a prayer partnership with the Apostle Paul. Those prayers are eternal. What he prayed for the Ephesian church is still before the throne of grace. It's still come down through the ages. Many millions of people, I believe, have prayed this prayer.

"Father, would You give me a spirit of wisdom and increasing spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Your Son Christ, that the eyes of my heart would be enlightened?" There it is. The Amplified says, "By having the eyes of our heart flooded with light so that we can know and understand the hope to which He has called us, that we would know the riches of the glory of His inheritance"—that's in the saints. "And let's talk about power—that we would know the exceeding greatness of His power directed towards those who believe."

Check out that prayer in Ephesians 1. I'm going to say the enemy is going to resist you on praying that prayer consistently in your life because that prayer right there is kryptonite for the kingdom of darkness. It is supernatural and powerful.

Practical Steps to See in God's Light

How can we practically take steps to flesh out this concept of seeing things in a new light, an extraordinary kingdom light? These are just a few thoughts:

1. Know that God is supernatural light. Again, the Bible says that God is light. He dwells in unapproachable light. It is Jesus who brings this light to us. So fix your eyes on Jesus. Increase your intimacy with Jesus via His Word, via prayer, via time with Him.

2. Receive Christ more and more into your life. It's not just that first prayer you prayed that just initiated an ever-increasing process of knowing Christ and inviting Him into your life, that He abides in a richer way. Receive Him more and more.

3. Release that light of Christ over earthborn situations and challenges, even opportunities. How do we do this? We pray. We pray fueled by the Word of God. And then we release truth. We declare and speak to the tree, speak to the mountain, speak to the situation out of that womb of prayer that's been fueled by the Word of God. Release the light of Christ.

4. Walk in the light. This is critical. We can't just pray. We have to walk in the light. We have to be obedient. We have to stay in the light. Don't get into darkness. One of the ways we get into darkness is hatred and unforgiveness. The Bible actually says that those who hate walk in darkness and don't know what they're stumbling over. Isn't that amazing? As you remain in the light, more light will become available. Don't live in the shade. Don't stay in the shade. Don't get in that dark alley.

5. Intentionally wean yourself away from natural seeing and natural thinking. Transition. Grow up into spiritual seeing and thinking.

6. Discipline yourself to consistently maintain a high Word level. Understand that the Word of God is light.

→ Get the complete list of Scriptures for meditation and proclamation at jesussmart.com/361-seeing-new-light

Closing

Now here's where we're going to just drop the landing gear and come down on the tarmac and land this thing with Scriptures for meditation and proclamation. And these will all be on the show notes page. Seeing things in a new light can spark this transformation that God wants and that you want.

Inspired Scripture transforms things. Meditate on these verses. I have a list of verses here. I would suggest that you begin to speak them aloud in prayer and proclamation. Remember that the most powerful weapon in the universe is not a nuclear bomb. It's not a bioweapon. It's the sword of the Spirit. It's that spoken Word of God in your mouth. Ephesians, chapter six.

You can...

Forget the sanitized nativity—Christmas is a beachhead, an invasion, a sentence of doom upon the dragon. Brian Del Turco unveils Christmas through Revelation 12 and G.K. Chesterton's vision of the cave as an "outlaw's den"—a fortress in enemy territory where the King returned to shake kingdoms from below. This isn't about warm feelings and Michael Bublé—it's about understanding that the incarnation set in motion an advancing process that continues through us today. Discover four practical ways to live in "365 Advent". Pull out the eggnog if you fancy, but remember this: the dragon rages, but you reign in Christ.

----------

See the full episode transcript below.

👉 Support the podcast (use the Smart Edit BMAC page): buymeacoffee.com/SmartEdit

👉 Explore more episodes: JesusSmart.com/podcast

If this episode gave you a fresh perspective on Kingdom Living, share it with someone who needs encouragement.

Be sure to follow the podcast—each episode is designed to help you think more clearly and pursue the kind of life only Jesus makes possible.

Stay current via The Smart Edit newsletter—Elevate your faith. Live smart. Make an impact. Free. Weekly. 5 minutes to grow. Sign up at JesusSmart.com.

----------

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: The Outlaw Christ-Child: Why Christmas is Still a Revolution

Hey, dragon, you've been resisting, you've been fighting, you've been raging, but we have a message for you. Ho, ho, ho, from King Jesus.

Well, I have my little Christmas tree with twinkling lights that my daughter so kindly set me up with right here by my podcasting equipment. I'm ready to go. This is the first in a miniseries on Christmas. Welcome to Jesus Smart, the podcast. Brian Del Turco here. Thanks for connecting with me today.

The Central Miracle of Christianity

C.S. Lewis, in his book Miracles, writes that the central miracle asserted by Christians is the incarnation. That's sort of a theological word which simply means God became flesh. Jesus came into the earth in the form of a human being. Lewis writes that they say that God became man. Of course, this is true. Every other miracle prepares for the incarnation or exhibits the reality of the incarnation or results from this, the incarnation.

In the Christian story, Lewis writes, God descends to re-ascend. Now listen to this, because you and I are swept up in this. In Christ, He comes down, down from the heights of absolute being into time and space, down into humanity. But He goes down to come up again and bring the ruined world up with Him. Isn't that powerful?

Paul put it this way in his letter to the Philippians: "I press toward the mark of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."

Beyond the Hallmark Christmas

Now, I live with a lot of ladies—one wife and many daughters. We have four daughters, two still at home. So I know a lot about Hallmark. I have memorized the script-writing templates of Hallmark movies. I can predict the outcome of a Hallmark movie.

I don't mind. I enjoy sitting with my wife on a couch during the holiday season while they have a Hallmark movie on, and maybe we're eating a little something. And quite often, I might have, if I can just be honest with you, earbuds in. And I'm listening to maybe a podcast or something like that, kind of multitasking, glancing up at the Hallmark movie once in a while, but then getting some good solid content as well. This is how I—these are my coping mechanisms. This is how I make it with four daughters.

So I don't mind doing that. But I'm always after a deeper, more militant message concerning Christmas. And I know that this may challenge some people. Maybe not. Maybe you're listening, and this doesn't challenge you. I hope not.

The Christmas Story from Heaven's Perspective

Let's consider the Christmas story as told from heaven's perspective in the book of Revelation. You know, we sing "Away in a Manger" and "Silent Night, Holy Night," and we think about the baby wrapped in swaddling clothes. We put the Charlie Brown special on. We put the music on. If I hear another song by Michael Bublé, I don't know what I'm going to do. But all of these things are around.

But deep down, I'm understanding that Christmas is invasion. And this is how I like to try to keep Christmas well.

Consider from the book of Revelation, chapter 12: "The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child who will rule the nations with an iron scepter." Yes, take that, Michael Bublé.

"And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and his angels fought back, but he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring, those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus."

What is this account of the woman and the dragon and the birthing of the Christ child? I was having coffee with a fellow compatriot yesterday, and we concluded—I've done some study on it. Not a deep dive on Revelation 12, not super deep, but I see the woman there as a composite picture of first Israel, then Mary giving birth to the Christ child, and then the church as well, and the dragon making war. But we're overcoming.

The Outlaw's Den: G.K. Chesterton's Vision

Now, G.K. Chesterton—see, we have to read people from a hundred years ago. G.K. Chesterton, just hang with this here. He wrote in his book The Everlasting Man, in the chapter "The God in the Cave," that we need to take the fragrance of what happened in the birth of the Christ child. He calls it an explosion in the Judean hills 2,000 years ago. He sees the cave as an outlaw's den, as an outpost, a fortress in enemy territory. Yes, take that, Hallmark.

Herod's days are marked and the dragon's doom is sealed. Now listen to what he says:

"There is something defiant in this, something that makes the abrupt bells at midnight sound like the great guns of a battle that has just been won. All this indescribable thing that we call Christmas atmosphere." Just like the bells would ring maybe at midnight on Christmas Eve, he hears it as the great guns of a battle that has just been won.

He continues: "This Christmas atmosphere hangs in the air, something like a lingering fragrance or a fading vapor from the exultant explosion of that one hour in the Judean hills nearly 2,000 years ago. But the savor is still unmistakable, and it's something too subtle or too solitary to be covered by our use of the word peace. By the very nature of the story, the rejoicings in the cavern were rejoicings in a fortress or an outlaw's den."

Now this is how to keep Christmas well, right? Especially in our time and what we may face, friends, as we look at this next decade or two.

As an overcoming Christ follower, he continues, there in that image is a true idea of an outpost, of a piercing through the rock and an entrance into enemy territory. Yes. If I could just say, this is like D-Day. This is a beachhead. The King is back.

He continues: "There in this buried divinity, an idea of undermining the world, the world system, of shaking the towers and palaces from below." He sees the Christ child as underground in the cave, in the outlaw's den, shaking even as Herod—Herod the great king felt that earthquake under him and swayed with his swaying palace.

See, everything that can be shaken will be shaken so that what remains is the eternal kingdom of Christ. This is so beautiful.

Actually, give me my eggnog. Go ahead and put Hallmark on, but I'm going to be thinking and praying on these lines, and I'm going to be positively agitating people around me to consider these edges.

The Lord of Hosts

Now, my friends and angels, did you know that the compound name that represents Christ's nature most frequently in the Scriptures—do you know what it is? The compound name in the Bible that represents Christ's nature most frequently? It's "Lord of Hosts."

Get this: it appears nearly 10 times the sum of all the other compound names revealed in the Scriptures. Can you believe that? Do you think that God is trying to say something to us about the primacy of what His nature is, about the priority of what His agenda is?

Now listen, in Luke chapter 2: "In the same region, these shepherds"—and I hope they had their adult diapers on, because they probably had an adult accident—"shepherds staying out in the fields and keeping watch over their flock by night. And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terribly frightened." I mean, no kidding. The sky unzips, there's like a veil that opens up, and the glory of the Lord manifests in white-hot light.

And the angel says to them, "Don't be afraid. For behold, I bring you good news of great joy, which will be for all the people. For today in the city of David, there has been born for you a Savior who is Christ the Lord. And this will be a sign for you. You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger."

Now, if they didn't use their adult diapers yet, they may have right here in verse 13: "Suddenly there appeared with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying"—a multitude of the heavenly host, there it is. These were militant angels that manifested in the sky that were escorting, in a sense, the seed of the second member of the Godhead coming into the hostile environment of the earth.

And they said, "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased."

You see, hosts are angel armies. Jesus is the Lord of armies. They, in a sense, were coming to honor and to acknowledge their commander coming in human flesh. These angels are terrifying warriors. I think on the top of our Christmas tree in the house, we have a bow. Imagine if a real angel appeared on the top of your Christmas tree. Now that would be a Christmas to remember. I just want you to see the sense of raw power and the King is back in Christmas. Hey, dragon, ho, ho, ho.

Advent Is Advancing

Advent is not just us looking back to a baby. Advent is not just the anticipation of celebrating Christ's birth each December. It is that, and let's try to celebrate it as much as we can with as much understanding as we have of the true nature of what that incarnation is.

But even beyond and even more, the truth of Advent is that Christ coming into our world produces a sentence of doom upon the dragon, a sentence of doom upon all darkness. And it has set in motion a process which is transforming everything. You see, Advent is advancing through time.

And this comes right down to our personal lives. Christmas is invasion, guys and ladies. Because I tell you, the Lord is raising up some Deborah-like ladies today who are like judges and who, in their feminine way, are militant in their faith. I love it. We need it. Let's go for it.

Those angels in the skies over the Judean hills were a multitude of heavenly hosts. They were angel armies. Traditional Advent is this anticipation of celebrating Christ's birth. And in the weeks leading up to Christmas, we prepare our hearts. It's all good, it's all solid. I want to go deeper in that.

But Christ's coming is not just a one-off event. It's not just punctiliar, a point in time. It is process. You see, the incarnation has set in motion a process. He continues to come in fullness and in power through the body of Christ. And He continues to come in fullness and power even in our own lives, in history, since the birth of Christ and in our day.

Paul talked about this in Ephesians 4:13. He talks about growing and developing and "the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ"—the incarnation as process within our lives. We simply have to build this into our worldview. It's going to affect how we pray, how we make decisions, the actions that we take, the way that we align with others in the body of Christ.

And even we look into the future, and we also anticipate His coming again when there will be a complete revelation of Christ, a total revelation of Christ this time in the future, coming in overwhelming rule and completeness. So Advent is advancing. It's progressing through time. It's advancing through those who yield to His presence in our day.

You Reign in Christ

Jesus is no longer a baby. He is now ascended and seated as a king. He is filling all things. Paul wrote in Ephesians 1:22-23: "And He put all things in subjection under His feet and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all."

You see, my friend, the dragon rages, but you reign. The dragon may rage, but you reign in Christ.

This coming of Jesus Christ—the King is back into the earth—is an existential threat to Satan's kingdom. The serpent of old is not pleased about it, but he's doomed. And we just need to understand that this raging antichrist spirit was in the earth for centuries, even prior to the birth of Christ. Then the demonized King Herod tried to murder the Son of God. And that same spirit has slithered through history since the Nativity.

Even now, my friend, as a Christ follower, much of what you may be going through—don't take it too personally. It's not so much about you as it is about Christ and His kingdom in you and through you. And yet greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. You overcome because Christ has been born in you.

Living in 365 Advent

Now let me leave you with four practical points that we can consider moving on. The kingdom of Christ increases constantly in us and through us. I'm calling it "365 Advent." I'm talking about living in the possibilities of the incarnation each day of the year, living in the light of this vision for your life.

From Revelation 11:15: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever"—beginning to live now in the light and the potential of that which is coming.

First, renew your alignment with the now ascended Christ. Let's really know Him. Deepen our relationship with Him. If we seek first Christ and His kingdom, everything else that everyone else is seeking for will be added to us.

Second, harmonize with the heavenlies via worship, via the Scriptures, meditation, prayer, affirmation. We're not trying to get to victory. We have the ability to live from victory. We're praying down into situations from our place with Christ, seated with Him in the heavenlies.

Third, see the rule of Christ extended through our lives like a scepter, like a royal scepter. Like Moses lifting up his rod over the Red Sea, let's extend His rule over scenarios and situations and opportunities and challenges. Let's live up to our station in Christ.

Fourth, advance into new life seasons with great joy and anticipation—the advancement of the Advent. Let's advance into new life situations with great anticipation.

Keeping Christmas Well

All right, pull out the eggnog. Put the Hallmark movies on. Let Michael Bublé sing and croon till the cows come home. But deep, deep, deep down, it's this outlaw den. It's this "King is back," it's this invasion, it's this incarnation and what that means. And then His ascension. And we are swept up with that. And even now we are seated with Him. And let's live according to our station from a royal, exalted, authoritative plane. That is how we can keep Christmas well.

Hey, dragon, you've been dragging on situations in our lives. You've been resisting, you've been fighting, you've been raging. But we have a message for you. Ho, ho, ho, from King Jesus.

Thanks for spending a few with me today. I'll catch you next time in the second part of our Christmas miniseries. Share this with one or two of your friends. I think they'll enjoy this message. Maybe it might challenge them, and it might put some fresh inspiration in them for a holiday season that could be a little bit different.

Jesus is brilliant. We love that baby Christ child who came into that outlaw den, but we also love Him as now the cosmic Christ, the ascended Christ. We'll see you next time.

We're coining a new Christmas greeting: "Have yourself a very 'chaordic' Christmas!" Chaordic—where chaos meets order. With decades planting churches in Rome and Brussels and serving with Convoy of Hope, Terry Hoggard helps us see Christmas as the ultimate disruptive innovation—an ongoing dance between heaven and earth. Discover why crisis is often the catalyst for much-desired transformation. This isn't your typical feel-good Christmas message. It's a call to intentional disruption and wholehearted seeking. Because when you're all in, God rolls out a pathway you never imagined possible.

----------

See the full episode transcript below.

👉 Support the podcast (use the Smart Edit BMAC page): buymeacoffee.com/SmartEdit

👉 Enhanced show notes: JesusSmart.com/359

👉 Explore more episodes: JesusSmart.com/podcast

If this episode gave you a fresh perspective on Kingdom Living, share it with someone who needs encouragement.

Be sure to follow the podcast—each episode is designed to help you think more clearly and pursue the kind of life only Jesus makes possible.

Stay current via The Smart Edit newsletter—Elevate your faith. Live smart. Make an impact. Free. Weekly. 5 minutes to grow. Sign up at JesusSmart.com.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Have Yourself a Very Chaordic Christmas: When Chaos Meets Order with Terry Hoggard

Brian: Hey there, friend. Merry Christmas. I'm glad you're with us. Thanks for connecting today. I'm Brian Del Turco, and you are connected with Jesus Smart, the podcast. Jesus knows how this life works best.

This is such an inspiring conversation, number 211—now being recast as episode 359. Here's the title—I'm confident you have not heard a Christmas greeting like this before: "Have Yourself a Very Chaordic Christmas" with Terry Hoggard. This, my friend, is a new wrinkle on keeping Christmas well.

Meet Terry Hoggard

Terry Hoggard is our special guest. He's a veteran missionary who has led international churches in Rome and Brussels. He's a leader of international leaders, a life coach, and he's an executive leader in Convoy of Hope, an international relief organization.

Here's an idea: why not gift this episode with a friend or two, and then they can gift it to others? I think you'll see that this is a gift worth re-gifting. But you get to keep the value when you gift a podcast episode.

Terry really encourages us that it is going to take a wholehearted mindset and heart set—the strength of our desire, the fortitude of our will. We have to have an all-in approach to engage this Christmas dance between heaven and earth.

The True Joy of Christmas

Here's the true joy of Christmas: when we understand that heaven and earth merge in us through the indwelling Christ, all bets are off. Unlimited potential can be released. You see, it's more than remembering Jesus as a baby in a manger. Christmas is a breakthrough merging of heaven and earth, and this changes everything.

The incarnation means that heaven and earth are reconnected again in a new way. A seamlessness between heaven and earth has been re-established. Think of it—it is the grounds on which we can now pray, "Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

What can this mean for you? What can it mean for me? God wants to be reconnected with us. Reconciliation is a huge meta theme in the kingdom of God—putting things back together again. And a huge part of what Jesus is after is the reunification of heaven and earth.

From Barely Enough to Abundantly More

Brian: Welcome, friend, to the podcast today. I'm really excited to bring to you Terry Hoggard. Terry, welcome to the podcast today. I appreciate you carving out some time.

Terry: My joy to be with you, Brian. Thanks for the invite.

Brian: Give us maybe just a sentence about a springboard theme for today's episode.

Terry: A sentence of theme would be this: it's Advent, and I always have some sort of Advent Christmas theme. This year I'm thinking in this way—celebrating the Christ who changes our "barely enough" into "abundantly more."

Brian: I personally need this. Tell us about your work over the years. You started out as a missionary with the Assemblies of God in Rome. Why don't you just bring us briefly up through the present?

Terry: Well, you're completely correct. 1984, Ruthanne and I, my wife, we answered the call to be missionaries, specifically felt called to Rome at that time. So we planted an international church in Rome, which was for our organization the second international church to be established in Europe. I stayed there 10 years. I then went to Brussels to pastor what was the first international church established for the Assemblies of God globally.

I spent 25 years living in Brussels—10 pastoring that church. Then I spent another 10 working in Sweden and Copenhagen, working with churches who wanted to reach their communities by encouraging diversity and inclusion with immigrants. After that, I stayed based in Europe for five years working with Convoy of Hope, overseeing the international program and the teams who drive the global work of Convoy of Hope.

→ Read Terry's complete missionary journey and life coaching story at jesussmart.com/359-chaordic-christmas

Christmas as Divine Disruption

Brian: This theme of abundance and getting past this scarcity mindset and scarcity experience that you're sensing this year in the Christmas theme—tell us about that.

Terry: Yeah. I think without a lot of heavy thought, all of us have stories of moments in our lives when things were just very hard and times were tough. And very likely we know someone right now by first name who's in the same kind of state. I have family members who are literally living on "barely enough."

And it's to them that I give my thoughts, knowing that Christ invaded—I like your word about interruption. He interrupted the world and all the life patterns that were normalized. People who were labeled were labeled, and people who were poor were poor, and that was just not going to change. But Christ came to turn all of that upside down.

Brian: I'm really enjoying the notion of Christmas as an invasion. The King is back. What are the implications for life, for work, for ministry? Do you see Christmas as an invasion of sorts—the Christ child coming into this earth, the incarnation?

Terry: My desire always is that these days—and I actually dial into the Advent as well because I want to redeem all of these days—our fervent resolve should be to make the most of every opportunity. A great Christmas is a wonderful gift to give to someone who's in a very difficult situation. But a great Christmas doesn't compare to the abundantly more that Christ could provide.

If we, in the act of kindness or in wanting to make someone's Christmas better, don't forget to give highlight to the most important thing—which is Christ coming not just to your home or your heart at Christmas, but becoming a part of your everyday—that's going to change everything.

Brian: I love working through the Christmas narratives in the Gospels and trying to tease out kingdom dynamics. This Advent dynamic—you know who Leonard Sweet is, right? I don't know if he invented this word, but "chaordic." It's a word that blends chaos and order. When something is chaordic, it's an opportunity wrapped in chaos. It seems like the birth of Christ was quite chaordic, doesn't it?

Terry: Oh, absolutely. Everything about Him was to disrupt normal so thoroughly that people could embrace change. People don't break change, they don't go to change until they're thoroughly done with the circumstances they're in. That's the tragedy. So you need someone to disrupt that.

Brian: Disruptive innovation is a business term. I'm just seeing the Christ child as sort of like the ultimate disruptive innovation.

Terry: Yeah, that's so true. There's nothing about Christ in reality that cuddles the best world image that can be presented. The nativity sets—Christ is this baby wrapped in these beautiful cloths and He's surrounded by hay. The most we can give is not even a glimmer of who the Christ of Christmas really is.

The Power of Crisis and Necessity

Brian: So practically speaking, in terms of everyday life, what suggestions do you have about pursuing an abundant life in Christ?

Terry: I'm thinking about what Philippians says to us. It's very clear that we've been promised that God will supply all of our needs according to the riches of His glory in Christ Jesus. That's why I want to promote this Christ who can change "barely enough" into "abundantly more."

Here's the thing. The reality of His capacity is only fully revealed to us in times of great necessity, necessity and scarcity. That's the only time we get it.

Brian: Someone has said that adult learning readiness equals pain. When we feel the need, when we're tired of it, we're better positioned for transformation.

Terry: And it's so true. I remember when this hit my life strong and hard. I was told I had thyroid cancer, and it had been in my neck for a long time. Up until that time, I was a pastor, raised in a Pentecostal family, believing in healing. I believed He was a healer, preached He was a healer, prayed for people to be healed. But in my life, I had never been in a spot where I needed a healer.

Never in my life have I prayed this phrase: "Lord, guard over, watch over my bones, my blood, my cells." I never prayed that prayer. But every morning when I have my morning devotions, that's the phrase: "Father, thank you. Guarding over—not just about my heart, but my body, my bones, my blood, and my cells."

In that moment, I felt so fragile. I felt like I had just barely enough. And yet Christ stepped in and changed that into abundantly more.

→ Discover Terry's powerful story of transformation through crisis at jesussmart.com/359-chaordic-christmas

You'll Never See More Until You Seek More

Terry: The second thing is that you'll never see more of Him until you seek more of Him. Abundantly more has already been predetermined and pre-positioned for all of us.

When I was 14 or 15, life was tough for me. I couldn't find my way, didn't have an identity. I ended up in a service where a speaker said, "Here's the problem for most of you. You have just enough faith to make your mama happy and your pastor proud." I thought, "Exactly. That's exactly what I have."

But his challenge was, "When Jesus died on the cross, what did He give up? 60%? 70%? No. He laid it all down. And until you lay it all down, you're never going to know Him."

And then he added this: "The greatest waste of our lives—it's not the years we spend walking in darkness. It's all the years that we spend refusing to give Him everything."

That was transformational for me. I made a decision. I'm done. I'm all in. That was July of 1970. I finished high school, went to Bible school. I met Ruthanne in '72. I married Ruthanne in '74. We had a baby in '75. I started full-time ministry in '76.

It was that moment when I understood I'm never going to move from barely enough to abundantly more unless I really get the fact that the wholehearted seeker has to engage at its highest level. That changes everything. Until you're all in, you just have no chance of abundantly more.

The Christmas Dance Between Heaven and Earth

Brian: Would you say one of the things we can learn from the Christmas narratives is that there is a dance between heaven and earth? Great things happen on Father God's dance floor. Heaven moves, but we need to move.

Mary receives the word. Simeon and Anna in the temple—they're people of intercession and fasting and prayer. They had a prophetic sense of what was happening. They knew the Christ child when they saw Him. Most people didn't see it or know it. What would you say about this Christmas dance between heaven and earth?

Terry: I think every Christmas has to be somehow disruptive. As much as we love the traditions, as much as we like the commonality of rhythms, there's something that we ought to do intentionally to disrupt our hearts and our focus and literally say, "Jesus, the fact that You came into this world, into my life, and You're ever present in my family and in this community, I have got to awaken something in my heart."

Brian: What can we do practically?

Terry: I think the prize goes to the seeker. The prize goes to the one who engages this. If we're careful and if we're wise, if we redeem the time and make the most of every opportunity, I think the Holy Spirit will drop on our hearts some things we can do—some inclusive pieces that are just disruptive enough that they probably will have impact beyond our hearts into the lives of our closer circles.

This is the moment to just not allow yourself to avoid or to not strategically include some kind of disruptive encounter where you just invite God to really show you what needs to awaken in your heart this season.

→ Get practical steps for experiencing a chaordic Christmas at jesussmart.com/359-chaordic-christmas

A Prayer for a Chaordic Christmas

Terry: I think the greatest way to say it simply—the chaordic for me means God blesses everything that you as a family enjoy. But as much as we love the tradition and the order, get ready for some spiritual chaos. Because this Christmas moment is not just ours to enjoy, it's His to orchestrate.

Father, thank You so much for the wonderful way You use Your sons and daughters. For Brian and his family, for Jesus Smart, and the ministries that flow. Lord, I pray most of all that this word that You've dropped into our hearts—thinking about disruptive innovation and Your possibility, Christ, to change our "barely enough" into "abundantly more"—I pray that this Christmas would be special in ways that maybe have oft been overlooked.

I pray they would experience something from You, something in their own hearts that would say this was destined by God. "This Christmas is not the same. This Christmas is different in this way." May the stories be told far and wide. May the name of Christ be all the more exalted and lifted up, in Jesus' name.

Brian: Amen, Lord. We pray that there would be an anointed chaordic anointing upon us, that when we walk into settings and scenarios, people would be shaken and wakened and disrupted and aligned with Your design.

I just can't take another Christmas of the same old, same old. I just want to see something disrupted dramatically. Thank you, Terry, for carving out some time today. Appreciate all that you are, all that you do.

Terry: It's my honor, Brian. Have a great Christmas, but highly chaordic.

Brian: I'm going for it. Love you too, Terry. Blessings to Ruthanne and your family.

What if the secret to breakthrough isn't just prayer or hard work—but a powerful combination of both with God's zeal backing your obedience? In this walk cast episode, Brian Del Turco unveils a kingdom framework: creative prayer plus strategic planning plus spirit-filled execution equals fruitfulness and fulfillment. Discover how to discern God's agenda (not just convince Him of yours), why prayer without planning is presumption, and how to tap into the zeal of the Lord that fuels ordinary people to accomplish extraordinary things. This three-step framework will help you align with how God designed things to work.

----------

See the full episode transcript below.

👉 Support the podcast (use the Smart Edit BMAC page): buymeacoffee.com/SmartEdit

👉 Enhanced show notes: JesusSmart.com/framework

👉 Explore more episodes: JesusSmart.com/podcast

If this episode gave you a fresh perspective on Kingdom Living, share it with someone who needs encouragement.

Be sure to follow the podcast—each episode is designed to help you think more clearly and pursue the kind of life only Jesus makes possible.

Stay current via The Smart Edit newsletter—Elevate your faith. Live smart. Make an impact. Free. Weekly. 5 minutes to grow. Sign up at JesusSmart.com.

----------

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT - A Kingdom Framework - Prayer + Planning + Spirit-Fueled Execution

Hey there, friends. Welcome to Jesus Smart X, the podcast. This is Brian Del Turco. Thanks for being with us today. You make all the difference. Thank you for listening and thank you for sharing content with others if you find it valuable and think it would inspire and help someone you know.

Introducing the Walk Cast

We're doing something different today, calling it a "walk cast." I'm outside, as you can probably hear. You'll probably hear vehicles and people, perhaps, but this is what I'm calling a walk cast. I've been getting into walking in recent months—about the past half year, a lot. Many days I'm doing, thankfully by the grace of God, something like 10 to 12,000 steps a day.

This recent wellness quest over the past half year was triggered by a bout with shingles, from which I'm still dealing with nerve pain in my lower back. But God is faithful. I hear sometimes it can last as long as a year. I hope that's not the case with me, but I have enjoyed walking, doing some resistance training, and changing my diet and losing a lot of weight. So I'm excited about that.

Why Walking Enhances Creative Thinking

Walking is something that really enhances our creative thinking. Research proves this—movement, just moving your body like with walking, can really break mental patterns and open new perspectives. Did you know that Jesus did a lot of his conversation and teaching with his disciples as they walked? This was a rabbinic tradition. The rabbi would walk with his disciples, and they would converse and talk—questions and answers and illustrations—really something of a teaching method. There is something of an ancient practice called "walk and talk," part of a wisdom tradition.

We've kind of missed that today. We think we have to be sitting on our derrieres in a classroom or remaining sedentary. But walking and learning has a long history, and it clears the head, engages the body, and helps to free your voice up. So yes, a walk cast. We may do this from time to time, weather permitting. We'll see how things go.

A Kingdom Formula for Success

A secret formula, a kingdom template that I think can help us in a lot of areas. Here it is, sort of like kingdom calculus or algebra. You ready for this?

Prayer plus planning plus spirit-filled execution equals accomplishment and success.

I heard John Eldredge say that there's a way that things work, and this applies to the kingdom as well. I recently fixed my stove, and there is a virtue in being able to not have to outsource everything but fix a stove yourself. We had buttons on a Samsung stove that were not working, and now with YouTube and ChatGPT, I found out that there was a ribbon cable in there that becomes oxidized. You can simply unplug it, use an eraser on a pencil, clean it up, plug it back in—boom, all the buttons work. But there's a way that things work.

Stoves are designed to work in a certain way. They need to be maintained. There's a way to fix things. And in the kingdom, there is a way that things work. I think that this formula—prayer plus planning plus spirit-filled execution equals success—shows us that God wants to help us. We can lay this template, if you will, this pattern over most anything, I think: ventures, tough conversations we need to have with people, parenting, career dynamics, ministry initiatives.

James 1:17 says that every good and perfect gift comes down from above from the Father of Lights. There's no variation or shadow of turning with Him. He's consistent with all of His sons and daughters. Every good and perfect gift comes down from above. But it doesn't mean that we can't pray and plan and use spirit-filled execution with these good gifts.

Step One: Creative Prayer

Let's start with creative prayer. I use the phrase "creative prayer" intentionally. Creative prayer isn't just asking—it's partnering with the Father's creative intent. We're actually tuning into what God is already doing.

Prayer is not just concocting our own list all the time and coming before God with what our ideas are, but it's also listening, picking up His heart, picking up His mind, what wants to happen from His heart. We're tuning into what God is already doing. Jeremiah 29:11 says that God has plans already designed for us. "I know the thoughts I have for you." He was speaking to the Jews who were in Babylonian exile. "But I have plans for you, to restore you, to bring you back." And it's the same with our own lives.

Creative prayer is discerning His agenda, not just convincing Him of ours. Prayer is picking up His heart, what wants to happen from His mind, His heart, and not just solely sharing our own. We're receiving what's already flowing from the Father's heart, listening to His thoughts, what are His dreams, what are His designs.

→ Read the full transcript with expanded insights on creative prayer at jesussmart.com/framework

Step Two: Diligent Planning

Number two, then move into diligent planning. See, prayer without action, prayer without planning is presumption. It's too passive. Proverbs 21:5 says that diligent plans lead to abundance. Diligent plans lead to abundance; haste leads to poverty.

Just doing things haphazardly, not planning, not praying—we need to preface our action with prayer. Then we need to plan, and we need to move on those plans. Once we receive direction, we have to get very strategic intentionally. How much desire do you have for it? What's the intentional level? Map out the steps.

We can have vision and then strategy, and then we have to break it down to tactical steps. What are our resources? What people need to be involved? What's the timeline? This isn't just trusting in your own planning more than God. It's not.

Psalm 127:1 says, "Unless the Lord builds the house," but builders are still working under the Lord. He's the master craftsman. "Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain who build it. Unless the Lord guards the city, the watchman stays awake in vain." So planning sanctified by prayer equals a high form of worship before God through our work.

Step Three: Execute with the Spirit's Energy

Number three: execute with the Spirit's energy. We have creative prayer plus moving into diligent planning plus now executing with the Spirit's energy. This is where a lot of things can stumble and stall, if I can be honest with you. We try to finish in our own strength what God prompted, what God started.

Galatians 3:3 says, "Have you begun by the Spirit? Are you now being perfected by the flesh?" Are you beginning something in the Spirit and now trying to execute on it or finish it in your own natural flesh? The same Spirit who gave the vision wants to fuel the execution of it. So we want to stay connected. We want to pray through each phase of it, be sensitive to course corrections.

Spirit-filled execution isn't anxiousness or frenetic activity. There's a grace to it. There's a rest to it. We're working hard while we're resting in God, and God is working through us by His grace. I think a lot of times we think of grace as remedial—"Oh God, give me your grace, I've blown it." It is that, but grace is also empowerment to live according to higher design. So grace is a key part of executing with the Spirit's energy.

→ Discover more about spirit-filled execution and avoiding common pitfalls at jesussmart.com/framework

The Outcome: The Zeal of the Lord

What's the outcome? What does it equal? The zeal of the Lord comes. It equals success and fulfillment and fruitfulness. Jesus said, "It's my Father's will that you bear much fruit and so prove to be His disciples."

The zeal of the Lord—in Isaiah 9:7, "The zeal of the Lord will accomplish this." It's talking about the kingdom of Jesus. "The government will rest on His shoulders, and His kingdom will never end." Zeal. What is zeal? We actually can receive the zeal of God.

Did you know that God is zealous, that He carries an intense passion and energy of burning commitment, fierce determination? One of our prayers that we should really key in on is, "God, give me your zeal for this. I want to know what you're thinking, what your heart wants, what your will is to be done on earth as it is in heaven. And now I need your zeal for it—in me, through me, on me, around me. Give me that fire, that passion for it."

As we follow this pattern, we tap into something greater than our own effort, our own natural energy. Creative prayer, strategic planning, spirit-filled execution—and woven through all of it and on all of it is the zeal of the Lord of hosts, the zeal of the Lord of the angel armies. His passion backs us up. It backs up our obedience. It backs up our faith movement. We get something of His determination for it flowing through us as we surrender to Him.

This is how ordinary people accomplish extraordinary things. So let's lay this template over everything. Maybe there's a relational issue that you need to steward in a new way. Maybe there's a very challenging conversation you need to have in business or in family life. Maybe there's a kingdom initiative you're pursuing.

Let's admit it—when we first get the vision for a kingdom initiative, it's very exciting, it's very fresh, but it's in the meantime, it's in the middle of it, it's in the afternoon of the project that the greatest challenge may arise. So we need to keep this template over it, I think. Become skilled in this.

We want to be on a pathway where we hear Him say, "Well done, good and faithful servant. Enter into the joy of your master." That's our horizon.

Here's a good challenge. What is one area this week that we can apply this framework to? Creative prayer plus strategic planning plus spirit-led, spirit-fueled execution equals fulfillment and fruitfulness and success. The zeal of the Lord of hosts rides on all of it. But what is just one area—small, medium, big—that we can apply this framework to?

→ Get the complete show notes, prayer, and practical application steps at jesussmart.com/framework

Appreciate you, and we will catch you in the next episode.

Brian Del Turco converses with Keith Payne to explore how lessons from his earthly father shaped his understanding of God’s Father heart. From a tough, charismatic union leader to a redeemed man of faith, Keith reflects on the wisdom, protection, and love he received and how it points to the perfect love of our heavenly Father. Together, they discuss fatherhood, redemption, and the multi-generational impact of God’s favor and guidance. This conversation is full of practical lessons, inspiring stories, and a reminder that God can redeem any situation.

----------

See the full episode transcript below.

👉 Support the podcast (use the Smart Edit BMAC page): buymeacoffee.com/SmartEdit

👉 Enhanced show notes: JesusSmart.com/357

👉 Explore more episodes: JesusSmart.com/podcast

If this episode gave you a fresh perspective on Kingdom Living, share it with someone who needs encouragement.

Be sure to follow the podcast—each episode is designed to help you think more clearly and pursue the kind of life only Jesus makes possible.

Stay current via The Smart Edit newsletter—Elevate your faith. Live smart. Make an impact. Free. Weekly. 5 minutes to grow. Unsubscribe anytime. Sign up at JesusSmart.com.

----------

KEITH PAYNE

Get your copy of 'Stuff I Got from Dad' on Amazon or Barnes & Noble

Facebook -- Keith Payne

Carmia’s Window Charitable Fund website

Carmia's Window Facebook page

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT - Stuff I Got from Dad with Keith Payne

See complete and enhanced show notes at jesussmart.com/357

Welcome to Jesus Smart X, episode 357. This is Brian Del Turco, and today we're stepping into a conversation that hits home for every single one of us because all of us have a father story. The gospel music bed you're hearing is from the Payne Family Group, a gospel group that Keith was part of along with his brothers.

I saw Keith Payne on Facebook talking about his new upcoming release, Stuff I Got From Dad, exploring how he relates his experiences with his earthly father to things about our heavenly Father—things he learned that transformed his understanding of God's fatherhood. He's on the podcast today talking about his new book by that title. It's a great conversation with an inspiring person, and I think you're going to enjoy it and benefit from it.

Understanding Fatherhood: Perfect and Imperfect

Maybe you had an amazing dad, or maybe your father was present but imperfect. Perhaps your experience with your earthly father was painful or even absent. No matter what your story looks like, your Father in heaven is not a reflection of your earthly dad. He is the perfection your earthly dad was only meant to point to, and God still can use it and show you some things. Please lean in.

God is in the business of redeeming fatherhood. He knows how to re-father us. The conversion experience in Christ is about re-fathering—Jesus introduces us now to God as Father to heal us and to teach us who He really is. This can unlock some healing and breakthrough in your understanding of the Father heart of God.

If you're new to the podcast, subscribe so that you can stay connected with future episodes. If you want to receive a weekly shot of Kingdom clarity and encouragement, you can sign up for the free Smart Edit newsletter. Just go to jesussmart.com right at the top of the homepage and you'll see the form there. You can unsubscribe at any time.

If you'd like to support this podcast and the mission behind it, you can now do that through Buy Me a Coffee. It's a simple way to fuel the work—completely optional but deeply appreciated. Look for the Smart Edit Buy Me a Coffee link in the show notes page.

A Quick Kingdom Thought: Dusted

Before we get the train rolling, I'd like to share something from a recent newsletter. We have a section called Thinking Above and Beyond. God says in Isaiah 55:9, "My thoughts are higher than your thoughts." So we need to reason with Him, think after Him.

Here's a quick hit thought: Dusted. In street language, to be dusted means defeated, wiped out. In Genesis 3, the serpent—Satan through the serpent—was sentenced to the dust. It was really a prophetic humiliation. God said, "On your belly you will go, and dust you will eat all the days of your life."

Jesus later said that we would trample on all the power of the enemy. The enemy's realm is dust level. Don't forget that our authority in Christ is above that. We can stay and live out of that place of being seated with Christ in the heavenly places in Ephesians 2:6 and enforce the verdict that's been issued. Remember that because of Christ, his place is now under your feet, eating the dust.

All right, let's lean into this conversation. I believe it's going to speak to your mind and spirit in a powerful way.

Meeting Keith Payne: A First Podcast Interview

Brian: I'm excited today to have Keith Payne on the podcast. Some of you know Keith, and some of you will be introduced to him today. We're talking about a very primal topic, a seminal topic—the topic of your father and also the fatherhood of God. We've got a big problem in the world today on this issue. Keith, how are you today? I'm glad you carved out some time for us.

Keith: Thanks for having me, Brian. This is exciting for me because this is my first actual podcast.

Brian: Your first podcast interview?

Keith: Yeah. Back in the day, we did a lot of radio and a lot of TV stuff with our music ministry, but this is the first official podcast, so you are a record breaker, my man.

Brian: Well, we're christening it right here. That's wonderful. This could be the beginning of your podcast career. Who knows? I'm glad to have you here. What can the listener today expect to hear as we talk?

The Birth of "Stuff I Got From Dad"

Keith: The book is titled Stuff I Got From Dad: Lessons from My Father. The whole concept was birthed in the last year or two of my father's life. He started to get ill, and I started spending much more time up there helping him organize things and take care of family business. As you have an elderly parent, you reminisce.

What came from those conversations was a realization on my part of the many, many lessons through the years that I had gleaned from him. Not necessarily where he sat me down and said, "Son, let me tell you about how to do X," but it was actually just experiences that upon reflection, I realized there was a real lesson there. I learned what to do and what not to do. There were lessons of what to pursue and lessons about avoiding negative outcomes.

When I started reflecting on those, I said, "Man, I'm going to start writing down some of these stories." He would reminisce about his childhood or many years ago, and then I started reflecting: I've learned some lessons here. Then it made me think of my relationship with my heavenly Father. There are also lessons or deeper meanings even beyond what I got from my earthly father.

Somebody said in a conversation, "Your dad's life was so amazing, somebody ought to write a book." As soon as I heard that statement, I felt that voice in my head—through the years I recognize it as the Holy Spirit—giving me the unction to say, "Yeah, somebody should. It's you."

On that day, I said to myself, "I'm going to write a book." I had no experience. I didn't know where to start or what the proper methodology was. A lot of this was just me writing my thoughts and trying to organize them in a way that would be accepted or easily read by the reader. The whole origin was the last couple years of his life reminding me of the things I'd learned, which then directed me toward even deeper lessons from my heavenly Father.

Fatherhood as God's Design

Brian: Would you agree with the statement, Keith, that there is no father on this planet who's perfect, and yet God uses fatherhood to teach us about Himself and to bring blessing in our lives? Maybe, as you say, information or perhaps warnings even about what not to do?

Keith: Fatherhood was important to Jesus. He referred to His Father many, many times while He was on this earth. The example, the great example of what fatherhood should be—influencing your children, providing direction—He lived that example or referred to that example. So fatherhood is important to me. I've got three sons.

The great thing about my relationship with my dad, my earthly father, is when I was a kid, I thought he was Superman because he was big and fit and could do things. He could throw a football very far and jump high. When you're a four or five-year-old kid, you look at your dad who has certain abilities and you go, "Wow, is he fast, is he strong?" I literally looked at him and thought he was like Superman as a young child.

As you grow older, though, the thing that I learned is he wasn't Superman, but he was more like Clark Kent. He was human. He was a man. He had faults, he had frailties. Learning and accepting the humanity of who your dad is also helpful because it helps you with your own personal relationship with God.

Brian: Accepting the humanity, honoring all that is good that has come down. I know there will be listeners who do not even have a father present in their life, or it was an extremely toxic or dysfunctional relationship, even abusive. Right there, Keith, what would you say to that sort of situation about fatherhood and also about the fatherhood of God?

Hope for the Father-Absent

Keith: I would say that everybody has different situations. If there's a scenario of a listener that's father-absent, with no father present, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ will provide a relationship with a heavenly Father. That Father always shows up. That Father never breaks His promise. And that Father is a comfort in time of need.

No matter what situation we face here on earth, the hope and the good news is there is opportunity to create a very close and lasting relationship with our heavenly Father.

Brian: Scripture says He's the father of the fatherless. So this book ties together your relationship with your earthly father and with the heavenly Father. As you were doing the storytelling—it's really a nonfiction book, but there's story embedded in it, the story of your relationship—how did that dual perspective shape the way you approached the writing of this book?

Deeper Lessons From Heaven

Keith: What it did is put a fine tip or focus on the fact that I learned some great things from my earthly father. My dad here on earth provided some things for us—strong will, an example of never giving up, an example of trying to figure things out, an example of how to deal with people, which he had skills in. There were things I learned from my earthly father.

But when I sat down and started thinking about it, I would get a lesson or reflect on a lesson I learned from my dad, and then I would think of the nature of God or my personal relationship with God, and I would say, "Oh, wow, there's even a deeper lesson there." In other words, it's good what I learned from dad, but there's even a better or deeper way to do that or approach a particular situation.

The Lesson of Outward Appearance vs. Inner Heart

Let me give you a quick example. Dad, very young in life, showed us you need to dress a certain way. He was a sharp dresser. As young guys, it's like, "Man, dad dresses pretty cool. He doesn't wear jeans and frumpy clothes. He knew how to tie a tie."

I tell a story in the book where I ran for class president in sixth grade, and he helped me get an outfit put together. He was showing me the importance of looking right, dressing for success. He was working with me on trying to read the room, see what people are saying and doing so that you can react properly to it.

Those are good things to know. It's important to know that you should dress properly and interact with people properly. But the reflection of my relationship with God—I started thinking about the story of young David, where the prophet Samuel comes in and he's told by God, "You have to go to this household, and you are going to anoint one of his sons."

The first son is tall and big, and Samuel goes, "God, this is the dude, man, this has got to be the guy. Look at this guy." The lesson there, so clear from scripture, was that God looks on the inside of a man's heart and not necessarily his outward appearance.

The deeper lesson for me: it's good to know how to read the room, interact with people, and dress a certain way. But beyond that, more importantly, if you have a heart for God and a heart for helping people, all those other things will take care of themselves.

From Poverty to Power: Dad's Journey

Brian: Now, your dad came from one of the poorest counties in the country, and he became a powerful union leader. It's really remarkable. Did he have higher education at all?

Keith: From that part of the country, you would consider him highly educated because he did get through 11th grade. He did not have a high school diploma. He came from McDowell County, West Virginia. If any of your listeners would look up "poorest counties in the USA," it would be listed in the top five in every search or every way that you want to measure—lowest income, highest unemployment, highest drug use. It's a very, very tough area, and that's where his family was from. To this day, it is a very, very tough area.

He left there in the 50s. Historically, there was a great migration from people from the south to the north looking for work in the early 50s—auto plants, steel mills, rubber plants. Cleveland, Akron, Chicago, Detroit. There's a huge migration of people from the deep south and from Appalachia.

Part of that group came in the early 50s from Appalachia up to Cleveland, Ohio, because it was a little smaller than Detroit and there were plenty of opportunities for what they would call non-skilled labor at that time. He went to work at Ford, and within a year got involved in the union movement there.

Union Leadership and Fighting for the Little Guy

Because of his background in West Virginia, which was very strong with the United Mine Workers, there were a lot of health and safety issues with the mines back in the day. It was birthed in him—it was part of his DNA—to stand up for the little guy and to make sure that the large organization or the company did not take advantage of the worker.

He went from a high school dropout to two terms where he was the president of the second largest UAW local union in the country. There were 15,000 members when he was the president.

Brian: Wow.

Keith: He had to get more votes than most mayors of a lot of these small towns in Ohio to get elected president of that local union back in the 70s and 80s when he was involved in that.

Brian: So do you think that was the primary fuel that drove him—his concern for the little man, making sure that employees' rights were preserved?

Keith: His nature was that he loved a fight. He loved a good fight, and he loved the opportunity where if somebody was trying to take advantage of somebody, he was going to be the advocate or fight for that person.

He was such a skilled negotiator. Here's a guy with not even a high school education sitting across the table from trained HR people, attorneys, CEOs, executives from a Fortune 100 company—Ford Motor Company, a very large company. They put their most skilled negotiators on the other side of the table.

Here's this guy from West Virginia saying, "Okay, we're not going to do it that way." He became so famous or noticed for his ability to negotiate these contracts that they finally figured out there was a guy from the same part of the country who was an executive in the Ford world. They would bring him in—his name was Bill Landers. They would bring Bill Landers in because my dad and Bill Landers could talk respectfully but directly with each other because they came from the same part of the world.

Brian: How about that?

Keith: It was one of the ways they negotiated contracts back in the day. They would call in this other guy from West Virginia to say, "You got to deal with this guy from Cleveland because we're not making any headway with him." That was his claim to fame.

Brian: He was wired for this. He just had a lot of innate ability. It was just in him.

Keith: His personality was he would light up a room when he'd come into the room, and you would have to quickly assess. You couldn't ignore him. You either had to position yourself as an ally or as an adversary pretty quickly because he just had that type of charisma. Anybody that met him or got to know him, even later in life, recognized that that was part of who he was.

A Season of Grace and Reflection

Brian: I'm sure those last few years of his life, when you spent a lot of time with him and probably gleaned a lot of the material and stories for this book, was very fulfilling for you, very rewarding. I'm sure it was really a time of grace. End-of-life issues can be really sacramental seasons with people. What was the most surprising thing or inspiring thing that you learned from your dad while you were going through this process?

The Transformation: From Tough Guy to Servant of God

Keith: When he was in his heyday of being the union leader, think of every negative stereotype of the union boss back in the 70s, and he was probably that person. He interacted with people that we would call mob ties. He was beat up. There were contracts taken out on him to shut him up. He had his political opponents one time accuse him of kidnapping to try to destroy his career.

What I'm trying to describe is a tough guy. When I was a very young child, my dad was not around a lot. When he was around, he commanded respect. Within the community, he was considered a tough guy.

One of the things that was just so amazing about these last couple years of his life was hearing about these old stories and reminding myself about who he was, to see...

Spiritual attacks and temptation are inevitable—but domination isn’t. Walking in the light, staying aligned with Christ, and cleansing our hearts gives the enemy nothing to grab onto. We uncover practical steps to remove footholds of sin and operate in Christ's authority in everyday life.

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See the full episode transcript below.

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👉 Enhanced show notes: JesusSmart.com/356

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If this episode gave you a fresh perspective on Kingdom Living, share it with someone who needs encouragement.

Be sure to follow the podcast—each episode is designed to help you think more clearly and pursue the kind of life only Jesus makes possible.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT - The Authority of Being Clean: Living Beyond the Enemy's Reach

I want to start with a personal moment. There were many seasons in my life when I realized that the enemy of our soul—Satan, the devil, the adversary—had too much access into my life. He had ways and avenues to influence my thoughts, shape my emotions, and steer my decisions toward compromising choices that could have consequences.

I could see patterns, subtle patterns of compromise and sin in my life, and I could feel the weight of the foothold. I could feel the weight of the ground that I had given away. I wasn't falling into egregious sins or earth-shaking major mistakes, but small stuff.

And I could sense that I was being positioned for the potential of further compromise. Sin will take you farther than you want to go and faster. The Holy Spirit, prodding and bringing conviction, was a wake-up call.

A Jesus Tactic for Spiritual Victory

That's what I want to explore with you today—a real Jesus tactic for how to walk in the light and remove footholds from the enemy so that we can live and operate in the authority and success that God has given us.

Spiritual attacks and temptation are inevitable. As John Eldredge says, when you're born again—even when you're born the first time—you're born into a war.

And when you're born again, you're redeemed and saved, placed on a trajectory where you can become Christlike and victorious and share in the inheritance of Christ. You're still in a war, and maybe in a more heightened sense at that point.

Here's the good news: when we're talking about sin and compromise and temptation, domination—you being dominated, me being dominated by that—is not inevitable. It's inevitable that we will encounter it, but I'm talking about being dominated and controlled by it.

Jesus Had Nothing for the Enemy to Grab

Jesus knew, I think it was the evening before His crucifixion in John 14, the enemy was coming. And here's what He said: "The ruler of this world is coming and he has nothing in me." There is no ground in me, Jesus was saying.

If we follow this Jesus tactic, we can really cut off the enemy's opportunity. Like Jesus, if we can say, "He has nothing in me." If Jesus could live with zero access for the enemy to penetrate His life and dominate and control Him, we can follow that same principle. The enemy only has as much access as we give him when we are in Christ.

Walking in the Light

There's an important passage in 1 John 1:5-9. If we can get this right or start getting it right, there is so much downstream stuff we could cut off from the enemy, so much time we could save, so many benefits.

"God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with Him and yet we're walking in the darkness, we're lying and not practicing the truth. But if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin."

Walking in the light means that we bring hidden attitudes and compromises and sins out into the open. We confess them before the Lord primarily. There may be times where, as it says at the end of James, we confess our faults and sins to one another, and healing comes in that way. We're allowing God's light to do a reset in our inner person.

It's not about perfection. When Jesus said, "You need to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect," the New Testament word for perfection is complete or mature or whole. It's not a perfection complex—totally sinless. What it is, though, is about progressive alignment, moment by moment, with the Lord.

Where Spiritual Warfare Really Begins

Real spiritual warfare starts on the inside. It's not outside of us. True, there are dynamics external to us which are manifestations of spiritual warfare, but it starts on the inside, in the realm of our thoughts, our emotions, and the choices that we make.

Things like anger, bitterness, lust, unforgiveness—all of these things will give the enemy territory in our hearts. And our heart shapes our personal world. Proverbs tells us to pay attention to our heart with all diligence, for out of it flow the issues of life.

Paul says in Ephesians 4, when talking about anger: "Be angry, but sin not. And do not let the sun go down on your anger." Come to a place of settled resolution the day of. And he says, "Do not give the devil ground."

Something like anger—if sin were a river, anger is up at the headwaters of it. All kinds of things flow out of anger: unforgiveness, bitterness, even murder. We don't want to give the devil an opportunity. Don't give him ground. Cut him off.

Read the full transcript with all Scripture references and deeper insights at https://jesussmart.com/356

The Authority of Being Clean

In Psalm 19, David says, "The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever." Talk about lasting power. Being clean has lasting power, both now and forever. There's authority in being clean. This is what we're talking about today: dominion in being clean.

We want to be clean because from time to time we have to move in the authority of Christ. We've got to speak to that mountain. We've got to pray over somebody that needs healed. We have to mitigate against some vile thing in prayer.

We want to have the authority of the Lord, and being clean is a prerequisite to moving and living in the authority of Jesus Christ.

I love this thought from Francis Frangipane in his book The Three Battlegrounds: "Victory begins with the name of Jesus on our lips, but it will not be consummated until the nature of Jesus is in our hearts."

It's one thing to say His name, to confess Him as Savior and even Lord, but it's another thing to allow His nature through time to be progressively conformed to His image. Every thought, attitude and choice—the Holy Spirit begins to put His finger on things and ask for change and maturity. As the nature of Jesus is built into our hearts and lives, that's the consummation of victory.

Operating from Spiritual Authority

The devil's realm is dust level. He's not in your head. He can't be in your life. He's not above you. Our authority is above him in Christ. Ephesians 2:6 says that we've been raised up with Christ and seated with Him in the heavenly places. So as we walk in alignment with the Lord, as we really game up our obedience and purity, we operate from a position of spiritual authority.

We can pray down into earthborn situations from our authority of being seated with Christ and out of the enemy's reach. We don't want to compromise that. Our prayer life can be crimped and hindered by sin. We want to be able to pray from our true authority of being seated with Christ in heavenly places. We're living above the line.

John Owen, the Puritan theologian, wrote in his famous book 'The Mortification of Sin': "Simply be killing sin or it will be killing you." There is no third option. It's very binary. Be killing sin or it will be killing you.

Be encouraged with this: our obedience to Christ is where the enemy's domination ends. Our obedience to Christ is not where temptation ends. It's not even where spiritual warfare ends or spiritual attacks.

But it is where the controlling domination ends, where we do not yield, where we live victoriously. The more we do this, the easier it will become. We can step into our position and watch his grip collapse.

Get the complete episode breakdown and practical action steps at https://jesussmart.com/356

Three Practical Steps to Remove Footholds

How can we do this practically? Here are three takeaways:

1 - Do a Personal Spiritual Audit

Do daily and weekly reflection. How are you doing? Is there something that needs to be brought into the light and confessed and abandoned? It can be thought sin, attitudinal sin, motivational sin, or actual conduct. Sin is not only sins of commission; there are also sins of omission. What should we be saying that we're not saying? How should we be acting?

David put it this way in Psalm 139: "Lord, search me, know me, see if there's any way of wickedness in me, and lead me in the everlasting way." We want to be open to allowing the Holy Spirit to do audit work in our lives.

Be in connection with sound core members of the body of Christ where you can develop trust and communication, fighting for each other, helping each other win. As James 5 says, "Confess your sins to one another so that you may be healed." There is power in that. There is victory.

2 - Be Self-Aware and Notice Footholds

Notice footholds in your life. Is there bitterness, anger, any kind of repeated compromise? What is your speech like? What are you doing or not doing that you should be? How are you relating to people?

Identify areas where the enemy is trying to get a hook into you, trying to get a door open into your life. In Genesis 4, when God confronts Cain, He says, "Sin is at the door and its desire is for you."

In the Hebrew language, it's a word picture of a crazed animal that can hurt you. God said, "Its desire is for you. But you must master it."

That thing is not to dominate you and me. We are to dominate it. Everything is on the line. You may have some patterns you've seen in your own life where you know this is a particular weakness or vulnerability. Notice footholds.

3 - Lock the Door and Replace with Obedience

Lock down those doors. Close off those openings. Actively replace them with obedience. Use the power of confessing God's Word out loud. Use the power of praying Scripture—prayer architecture. Lay it over your life and pray the inspired, authoritative words of God.

And what about worship? Get your hands up in the air. Praise God. Declare His dominion. One of the ways we can trash-talk the enemy is finding the scriptural language that actually declares the dominion of Christ as King and speak that over the situation and over your life. What you're doing is reminding darkness what the future holds. We're on the winning side.

Use the power of God's Word. What did Jesus do in the wilderness? He used God's Word. Every time three waves of temptation came against Him, three times He confessed Scripture from Deuteronomy and declared it out loud to the enemy.

Access additional resources, prayer guides, and the full teaching at https://jesussmart.com/356

Do something today. What is one little thing today? Look for one area today and then this week that you can progressively align with God and remove footholds from the enemy in your life.

If this episode encouraged you or challenged you, share it with someone you think would value it. Subscribe to Jesus Smart everywhere podcasts are heard. We're seeking to uncover Kingdom dynamics that empower our walk with Christ. Let's live in victory, and I'll catch you next time.

Expanded show Notes & Resources: https://jesussmart.com/356

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What if you could see the New Testament not just as history, but as a living story that’s still unfolding? In Part 2 of this conversation, Brian Del Turco continues with Frank Viola, bestselling author of The Untold Story of the New Testament Church. Building on Part 1, this episode dives even deeper into the context, relationships, and divine drama behind the letters of the apostles. You’ll gain a clearer view of how the early church moved with Christ—and how your own life fits into that same advancing Kingdom narrative today.

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See the full episode transcript below.

👉 Enhanced show notes: JesusSmart.com/355

👉 Explore more episodes: JesusSmart.com/podcast

If this episode gave you a fresh perspective on Kingdom Living, share it with someone who needs encouragement.

Be sure to follow the podcast—each episode is designed to help you think more clearly and pursue the kind of life only Jesus makes possible.

Stay current via The Smart Edit newsletter—Elevate your faith. Live smart. Make an impact. Free. Weekly. 5 minutes to grow. Unsubscribe anytime. Sign up at JesusSmart.com.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Hey there, my friend. Welcome to the podcast. This is Jesus Smart X. We're glad you're here. I'm Brian Del Turco. You're one of about 618 unique listeners in the last 28 days. Really glad you're tuning in.

This is episode 355. In episode 353, we kicked off a dynamic conversation with Frank Viola, prolific author and Christian leader, about his book The Untold Story of the New Testament Church. It’s a fresh lens on the early church—the book of Acts and the letters that followed, Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, and so on. If you missed part one, I recommend listening to it first, though part two flows nicely on its own.

Also, in episode 350, we explored Life in the Groove: Improvising with the Holy Spirit, looking at jazz and the parallels with walking in the Spirit. Today, in part two with Frank, we go even deeper. You’ll hear insights that could reframe how you read the New Testament, giving you context, storyline, and practical understanding for kingdom living today.

Before we dive in, I want to mention the Smart Edit newsletter. Go to jesussmart.com, sign up at the top of the homepage. It’s free, weekly, takes five minutes to read, and will help elevate your faith and influence your sphere.

Understanding the Untold Story

Without the story—the narrative of how it all fits together—we’re open to misapplying and misinterpreting Scripture. Specifically, the early church story is often misunderstood. We tend to read our own century into the New Testament, projecting our practices back onto the primitive church, which is a major mistake across denominations.

Some things stand out when the story is put together:

• The Christian life was lived very differently than most Christians today practice.
• The way assemblies (the Greek word ecclesiae) were planted and functioned was completely different than today’s churches.
• The way ministers and church planters were trained in the first century was radically different.

People might say they were “archaic,” but if you look at how Jesus trained the 12, there are timeless principles superior to modern ministerial training.

Hands-On Leadership Development

Could you give an example of that leadership development?

It was hands-on. The disciples lived with Jesus for three years—they observed Him interacting with His Father, saw Him handle problems, watched Him lead. Then He gave them assignments and missions. Paul did the same with his team—training eight men (plus a ninth) in Ephesus for three years, in exactly the same hands-on way.

The book doesn’t make prescriptive applications. I don’t tell readers, “Do it this way.” I simply transport you into the first-century story, written in the present tense, and let you draw your own applications.

The Untold Story: Why It Matters

So the story is untold—it is what it is, right?

Yes. It’s “untold” because no one has presented Acts together with the epistles as one seamless narrative, filling in historical details. My presentation combines Luke’s account with the letters of Paul, creating a complete picture.

Applying the Story Today

So it’s seminal, almost like DNA—something readers need to contextualize in their lives, praying for guidance on how to apply it, without the book being prescriptive.

Exactly. It’s not a history book. People may think it is, but the goal is to unlock the New Testament letters with context, helping readers understand them in a fresh way. Most Christians miss much of the letters’ meaning because they don’t know the narrative behind them.

Key Takeaways

I look forward to reading more. One major insight—what would you want me to take away?

Think of the book as spiritual windshield wipers. The letters are in the book itself—you don’t need to stop and read them separately. You get the background story first, then read the letter, and it opens like a clear mountain stream.

Broad Impact

Even just one believer reading it can impact their sphere of influence.

Yes, pastors and groups are using it in bulk. You don’t need a particular theological stance—it transcends denominations, because the New Testament is one story, shared across all traditions.

Reclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom

From my perspective, the Holy Spirit is leading the body of Christ to reclaim the explosive gospel of the kingdom. My 2018 book, Insurgents: Reclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom, captures that. The Untold Story traces the kingdom theme from Matthew to Revelation.

I recently got an email from renowned scholar Paul Barnett praising the book as “astonishing” and “deserving to be widely used,” which was an incredible honor.

And for baseball fans, Aaron Judge has my book—he’ll read it next. So it’s reaching both academia and mainstream audiences.

Accessibility Meets Substance

The New Testament as we see it now is disjointed. We often lift verses out of context, creating doctrine or practice mistakes. This book helps correct that by giving the story, context, and continuity, preventing misapplication.

Fragmented thinking is an issue—we need thematic, integrated approaches. This book helps with that.

Closing Thoughts

Thanks, Frank, and encourage everyone to check out his resources online and in book form.

Thanks for joining us for episode 355 of Jesus Smart X. I hope this part two with Frank Viola helped you see the New Testament story and your place in it with fresh clarity. Go to the enhanced show notes at jesussmart.com/355 for links to Frank’s ministry and his book.

If you missed part one, that’s episode 353. And for a creative complement, check episode 354, Life in the Groove: Improvising with the Holy Spirit.

Grab the Smart Edit newsletter at jesussmart.com—elevate your faith, live smart.

What if walking with God is about moving in rhythm with the Holy Spirit — like a jazz musician improvising in the moment? We explore what it means to live in a Heaven and Earth Jazz Jam session. Listening, responding, and co-creating with God. Drawing on Scripture, spiritual insight, and the creative lessons of jazz, we explore how to sharpen spiritual intuition and flow in unexpected moments in every area of life and work.

----------

See the full episode transcript below.

👉 Explore more episodes: JesusSmart.com/podcast

If this episode gave you a fresh perspective on Kingdom Living, share it with someone who needs encouragement.

Be sure to follow the podcast—each episode is designed to help you think more clearly and pursue the kind of life only Jesus makes possible.

Stay current via The Smart Edit newsletter—Elevate your faith. Live smart. Make an impact. Free. Weekly. 5 minutes to grow. Unsubscribe anytime. Sign up at JesusSmart.com.

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EPISOSDE TRANSCRIPT -- Life in the Groove — Improvising with the Holy Spirit (EP 354)

In this episode of Jesus Smart X Podcast, Brian Del Turco explores the idea of moving in rhythm with the Holy Spirit — like a jazz musician improvising in the moment. Drawing on Scripture, spiritual insight, and the creative lessons of jazz, we explore how to sharpen spiritual intuition, respond in unexpected moments, and co-create with God in every area of life and work.

Between Episodes: Continuing the Conversation with Frank Viola

Before diving in, Brian mentions the ongoing two-part series with Frank Viola. Episode 353, The New Testament Like You've Never Seen It, explores reading the New Testament as a single, unfolding narrative, discovering the heartbeat of the early church, and seeing how our personal life story fits into Jesus’ larger story.

Don’t forget to check out the Smart Edit newsletter at jesussmart.com.

Elevate your faith. Live smart. Make an impact. Free. Weekly, each Thursday. 5 minutes to grow. Unsubscribe anytime. Sign up at JesusSmart.com.

Jazz and the Brain: A Spiritual Parallel

Listening to jazz activates nearly every part of the brain, enhancing focus, emotional depth, flexibility, and anticipation. Jazz requires us to listen actively, adapt to shifting harmonies, and respond creatively.

This is an excellent metaphor for walking with the Holy Spirit. Our relationship with God isn’t meant to be rigid or scripted. Scripture is our key signature — steady, unchanging, and true — while the Spirit invites us to improvise within that framework.

As Galatians 5:25 reminds us, “If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.”

Walking with the Spirit is not marching in lockstep; it’s keeping time in a living rhythm, a cadence flowing from the Father through the Holy Spirit.

The Improvisational Life: Flowing with the Spirit

Jazz and the Spirit share a key principle: tension and release, anticipation, and responsiveness. Life with the Holy Spirit requires mental and spiritual flexibility — a readiness to pivot, adapt, and respond in a Christlike way.

As Dallas Willard taught, true discipleship is Christ in you, living through your life circumstances. This requires alertness, creativity, and continual renewal — exactly what Romans 12:2 calls the “renewing of your mind.”

Classical music offers structure, discipline, and symmetry, while jazz develops intuition, sensitivity, and improvisation. Life in the Spirit demands both: grounded truth and openness to surprise, ready to follow God’s lead in the moment.

The Heaven and Earth Jazz Jam Session

A powerful image: the Heaven and Earth jazz jam session. Just as musicians listen, respond, and create together, we are invited to move in harmony with God and with a community of believers.

This Micro Ecclesia — a small, tight-knit group — becomes a spiritual “studio” where prayer, worship, and collaboration sharpen our ability to listen to God and to one another. The Holy Spirit orchestrates, guiding the flow, rhythm, and improvisation of our lives.

Practical Ways to Improvise Spirit-Led Life

Five practical ways to cultivate this jazz-like flow with God:

• Quiet Your Heart – Set aside time for stillness. Remove agendas and lists, leaving space for the Spirit to move.
• Flow in Prayer – Begin praying, allowing the Holy Spirit to shift your words and thoughts. Let your prayers take unexpected directions.
• Journal the “Royal Riffs” – Capture insights, nudges, or impressions from the Spirit. There is authority in recording what God reveals.
• Partner with Others – Some revelations unlock only in community. Pray, worship, and move with other Spirit-led believers.
• Take Spirit-Prompted Risks – Step out in faith when the Spirit calls you to speak, start, stop, or act. Trust His guidance, even in improvisation.

Each step strengthens your spiritual ear, teaching you to respond to God’s cues and to participate in the divine rhythm of life.

The Kingdom Symphony in Action

Walking with the Spirit is not about performance. It’s about partnership. The Holy Spirit leads, and we join in, improvising in sync with God’s rhythm. Ephesians 5:18-19 reminds us to be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Spontaneously, joyfully, and in harmony.

Whether in prayer, relationships, or ministry, this improvisational flow equips us to pursue God’s will on earth as it is in heaven. By listening, trusting, and playing our part, we become part of a larger Kingdom symphony, co-creating with God in real time.

Closing Thoughts

Brian encourages listeners to embrace a Heaven and Earth jazz jam session in daily life:

• Listen attentively.
• Respond creatively.
• Trust God’s lead.
• Partner with Spirit-led believers.

God has written the ultimate score of redemption, and He invites us to play within it. Life with the Holy Spirit is alive, dynamic, and deeply creative. Let’s keep in step with Him, improvise faithfully, and enjoy the melody He is creating in and through us.

Catch this episode and enhanced show notes at jesussmart.com, complete with a full transcript.

Remember: God is calling us to partner, not perform. Listen, trust, and play your part in the Kingdom Symphony.