We talk to John J. Lennon, a self-taught writer who has been incarcerated at Sing Sing Prison for 24 years. John has been married twice to women he fell in love with through handwritten letters. He tells us what conjugal visits are like, who gets access to them, and their surprising origin. At the end of the episode, Maxson and Emily ask each other if they’d stay in a relationship if one of them went to prison.

If you liked what John had to say, you can get more information on his new book, The Tragedy of True Crime, here.