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In this episode, Hillary welcomes Jon MacDonald, founder and CEO of The Good, a conversion rate optimization firm helping brands turn more browsers into buyers. With clients like Adobe and The Economist, Jon brings a no-fluff, data-forward mindset to digital growth.

Together, they unpack the myths around CRO, why most companies focus on the wrong metrics, and how to build a culture of testing and learning. Jon shares how his team helps businesses uncover what their customers actually want — and why clarity always beats cleverness.

If you think optimization is just button colors and heatmaps, this episode will flip the script.

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TIMESTAMPS

[01:18] Jon’s Journey from eCommerce to Optimization
[04:45] The Birth of The Good
[09:02] What CRO Really Means
[13:57] The Problem with Assumptions
[18:26] How Testing Creates Clarity
[22:33] Winning vs. Learning in Business
[28:41] Misconceptions About Conversion
[33:50] Advice for Brands Scaling Online


ABOUT JON MACDONALD

CEO at The Good, optimization for top brands Nike, Xerox, Adobe, The Economist & more for 15+ yrs | Author & Speaker | 6'7" 🏀 | Jr Olympic 🥇🥋 | http://jonmacdonald.com

50% off ebook version of Behind The Click using code BTCPODCAST50 at https://thegood.com/btc