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EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali sits down with Jordan Thaeler to explore how embedded payments lock merchants into costly, inflexible systems. Jordan explains why many software providers bundle payment services with their core products, leaving merchants with few choices and rising costs. He shares how this model drives up payment fees over time while reducing merchant leverage and support.

Jordan describes the risks of a market where software and payments are tied together. He uses examples like Toast and Shopify to show how merchants often pay much more than the market average, with little transparency or recourse. As more processing volume moves to embedded payments, Jordan argues that choice and competition are critical for a healthier payments ecosystem.

The conversation turns to dual pricing models and the global push for bank-to-bank payments. Jordan makes the case for more options and education, so merchants are no longer “hostages” to their software providers.

GUEST-AT-A-GLANCE
Name: Jordan Thaeler
What he does: Co-Founder
Company: POS+
Noteworthy: Known for exposing hidden payment practices and building tools that give merchants more choice in payment processing.
Where to find him: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jjthaeler/
Guest Company Website: https://www.posplus.org/

KEY INSIGHTS

Embedded Payments Can Trap Merchants in High-Cost Systems

When software providers bundle their own payment services into their platforms, merchants lose the ability to shop for better rates or support. Over time, these bundled arrangements drive up payment costs while locking businesses into a single provider, making it tough to switch even when fees rise or service drops. This lack of competition leads to higher margins for software companies, but often leaves merchants paying far above the market average. The friction of changing systems, along with limited transparency, means that many businesses end up stuck with unfavorable terms. The core insight is clear: without real choice and portability in payment workflows, merchants risk becoming hostages to their own software—paying more for less flexibility.

Choice and Transparency Lower Merchant Payment Costs

Giving merchants freedom to choose among payment providers can restore balance in the payments ecosystem. Integrating open payment workflows into popular software platforms allows businesses to negotiate better deals and demand improved service. When payment options are unbundled, outside experts and local providers can step in to educate merchants, offer support, and keep costs in check. This shift not only reduces the risk of inflated fees but also promotes honest pricing from software vendors, who must stand behind the true cost of their core products. In a landscape where margins are tight, especially for small businesses, having more transparency and options directly supports their bottom line.