Josh had the privilege of spending some time on the phone with Chris Llewellyn of Rend Collective. The conversation goes all over the place – from the shores of Northern Ireland to Christmas tree traditions and the need for good therapy. You can listen to the entire podcast here – or read the transcript below.
Josh: Hey, good morning. It’s Josh on the LifeSongs Morning Show, and I’m thrilled to welcome Chris Llewellyn of Rend Collective to the show. Chris, thank you so much for, for calling in.
Chris Llewellyn: Oh, I appreciate you having me. Thank you.
Josh: I’m so in love with the album Folk and the new song Fight of My Life, and we’re gonna get to that in just a minute.
But first, a little history about Rend Collective. You guys started out as a youth group band,
Chris Llewellyn: That’s exactly right. Yeah. Um, it’s essentially, it’s a Bible study that’s got wildly outta control at this point. Yeah, we didn’t actually make music together at all for about the first five years. We were kind of late teens trying to do some things, trying to work out faith and life and God and everything else.
And so we just opened up the Bible together and, and try to work out how to, how to apply that to our own lives and then bring it to everybody who was in our little coastal town of banger. Uh, I guess it was a very local scale back then. We, we went to the pubs and the clubs and. We’d stand outside and we would, we’d preach the gospel as best we understood it, and it was a, a really, really sweet time. After a while of doing that kind of ministry, you know, people were starting to move away and it didn’t make sense for us really to start meeting together anymore. So we thought before we would kind of disband that we would use our gifts and, and try to make a little memento of this time and that memento was really our, our first album that turned out to be. Mm-hmm. We thought it was just for sharing with our own community. Um, my mom still has probably 200 copies of that ep, yet it found its way into the hands of Martin Smith who passed it on to Chris Tomlin, who made the mistake of believing we were a real band and invited us on.
Chris Llewellyn: Invited us on. Yeah. One of his biggest tours up to that point, the And If Our God, is For Us Tour. The craziest story: It’s a Bible study who got invited onto tour with Chris Tomlin, who were like. Yeah, we can be a band and here we are.
Josh: Well, as, as someone who lives like 6,000 miles away from Bangor, Ireland, I am super glad that there was this comedy of errors that that led to, I guess the Rend collective experiment was a success.
Chris Llewellyn: I’m glad for that review. Uh, not everyone reviews it that way.
Josh: When I was a teenager, I was also in a youth praise and worship band. This is back in the nineties, and it’s really wild how 30 years can fly, but. I, I’ve noticed a lot of my friends from back in that day, they’re no longer really walking their faith out, and that breaks my heart.
Have you guys seen that or have you seen just like a, a tremendous growth.
Chris Llewellyn: Hmm. That’s interesting. It’s probably about 50/50 is the truth. And the people who, the people who are still walking out their faith are, are walking it out in increased strength. And I think the other 50% kind of did fizzle away and, uh, and do their own thing.
And I’m always thinking about that, that parable of the sewer. Mm-hmm. You know, we, we spread the gospel, we throw out that seed, but ultimately it’s the Holy Spirit that makes it take hold or take root. It’s interesting and sad to, to see the ways that it gets snatched up or, or ignored or, or choked out.
But also it’s really inspiring to see whenever a, a big sequoia grows up out of the ground. Mm-hmm. You know, big, it’s a special thing. Life of faith isn’t as easy as it seems.
Josh: No, no. It’s pretty brutal sometimes.
Chris Llewellyn: Yeah. Jesus asks us to carry our cross. Um, I think that that means that at times it can feel really heavy.
He also says that his burden is easy in his yolk is light, and I think that both of those things are weirdly true if you’re willing to enter into that little bit of complexity of understanding that grace is light, but life is heavy.
Josh: The new album Folk is great, by the way, Chris, it feels kind of a, like a return to form to like the, my Lighthouse era a little bit.
Chris Llewellyn: That’s kind for us. It felt like putting on, you know, you know that sweater that you keep at home and uh, it’s the one that you wear when. I don’t know when the kids are in bed and it’s time to watch your own show.
Chris Llewellyn: It’s like that’s what it feels like to put on folk music for me. We can wear other clothes, don’t mind dressing up, but uh, the old sweater was calling to us again.
Josh: So speaking of wearing other clothes, by the way, like, and I mean this in the most positive way possible, the last album before this one, the one with Hallelujah Anyway on it, that album. Yeah. It felt to me in the best way imaginable like a dive bar band, like you guys had like done a circuit of saloons around Nashville and just like, kind of adopted a little bit of that edge sound to it.
And I loved it. I thought it was great.
Chris Llewellyn: That’s really kind. Yeah. I, I think, I think that was true. It’s a little bit more, that’s literally our experience. I’m glad it, I’m glad it came through. We were spending more time because of the pandemic we had. We had spent so much more time in Nashville.
Chris Llewellyn: ’cause we had to make a call basically of, are we gonna be Ireland side or Nashville side? And we, we were in Nashville, so I think finally a little bit of the Tennessee did, did creep in. A little bit of Broadway is in there. So that’s gotta be sense.
Josh: So hard to be so far away from your people in the midst of that pandemic.
Chris Llewellyn: Yeah, it really, it really was. I mean, I, I don’t think anybody really gives 2020, uh, a five star review, but Yeah. Right. Uh, I’m, uh, I’m grateful for where it’s led us and, you know, we were just so fortunate the way that that spun out. It didn’t really, I’m so sad for the people that it, that it impacted really closely, but that, that wasn’t our story.
It. It didn’t really come that close to me and my family and I, I suppose I’m, I’m grateful for that at the same time as I, I’m heavy for the people that it costs a lot.
Josh: Yeah. I think some of us definitely fight off some of that survivor’s guilt.
Chris Llewellyn: Yeah. That, that’s exactly the right terminology.
Josh: We’re talking about Chris from Rend Collective this morning.
Fight of my Life. When you guys decided to publish this song, I imagine you did not take into account how many times you were gonna have to share your story of struggle when talking about the single, because that’s gotta be so emotionally exhausting.
Chris Llewellyn: Yeah. Um, this is a song I thought was always gonna be for myself.
There’s always a certain portion of songs that I have that I write for me, and that’s okay. They, they just live and, and they’re for me. They’re, they’re for me to work through a, a moment in my life. And then they never see the light of day. ’cause I don’t think they’re gonna connect with anyone else. And that, that was the bucket I had fighting my life in.
It was kind of, it was a bit of a diary overshare, and I, I thought it would come across as an, as an overshare. And I thought that it would come across as maybe like, it would make people feel hopeless, not hopeful. Um, and yet I, I played it for my wife and some of my close friends and they just say, you know, honestly, that this is one of the most resonant songs that you’ve ever written.
It feels like you’re. Like you’re talking about an actual human experience and not just talking about theology. Yeah. Um, and it was at that point that my ears started to perk up and I was like, I wonder if I take the risk of. Of talking about this journey, if, if it’ll bring people on board and it only be, give people a little bit of language to talk about their own struggles and it, it’s been amazing to see the response just, it is just, it’s beautiful when people say drop into our dm’s and had a few people say that, that this has been the nudge that they needed to go and actually seek therapy.
And I always feel like God and therapy is a nearly unbeatable combo in the face of depression. So that’s a good word. That means a lot to me, you know?
Josh: I’m so grateful that, that your story told through this song, Fight of My Life is able to give people that vocabulary, to give people that reminder that they’re not going through this alone.
That this is a, actually a very common experience.
Chris Llewellyn: Well, that’s right. And it’s not even a hopeless experience. I think that’s what I love, that the song kind of communicates and even communicates it just by the, the style of the song is almost at odds with the content. It’s like the sweet song that you’ve ever heard about depression.
Josh: You’ve got this manic ness in the, the lyrics and this, this edge to it. But the song is all joyful and happy and folky.
Chris Llewellyn: Yeah, exactly. And I really like that. I think that reflects something about what it is to walk through depression as a person of faith. Mm-hmm. Uh, as a person of faith, a person who believes that Jesus walks through it with you.
There, there is a sense in which even in those really, really dark moments, there’s still joy present with you. It’s a fruit of the Spirit and the Spirit’s with us and those brokenhearted moments. So. You know, we talk a lot about this piece that passes understanding. You know, that’s a scripture verse, not, not of me, quote.
Uh, but I also think there’s a joy that passes understanding that comes with us whenever we, we, we walk with Jesus. You know, it’s just the age we’re living in honestly, that, that 95% of people are, are carrying hard things.
Josh: And maybe it’s middle aged too, man.
Chris Llewellyn: Could be. I mean, middle, it’s not great.
Josh: No, it’s really not like it’s really, really hard.
But you know what that, I think in those moments, and you talk about this in the song, like the hope we have in Jesus of when everything is made right. It’s, it’s worth holding onto that hope, and this will have been worth it. This valley will have been worth it because there is such joy that we’re gonna have, and it’s gonna be no more tears someday.
And that’s not that far away anymore.
Chris Llewellyn: Yeah. I’m, I’m always, I’m always hardened by the fact that in the end it’s all gonna wind up with a wedding feast, I, I can cope with that.
Josh: Yeah. BT Dubs, this is just an aside. Um, I didn’t realize you were from Banger Ireland. I need you guys Oh yeah. To do a cover album and call it Bangers for Banger and Oh, that’s perfect actually.
Honestly, I just, all Irish songs like, you know, limit it to just a couple U2 songs, but like
Chris Llewellyn: it would be great. Goodness mate, you’ve got my head spinning. ’cause I mean, bangers from Banger contains the entire catalog of Van Morrison. The entire catalog is Snow Patrol. A decent amount of U2 too.
Josh: I’m already saving up to spend all the money on the vinyl when you make it.
Chris Llewellyn: yeah. All right. Uh, obviously I can’t give you any credit because, you know, I, I have to come up with all the ideas, but Yeah,
Chris Llewellyn: Take it,
Chris Llewellyn: take it as you need it. You’ll, you’ll see it and you’ll, you’ll know what you did.
Josh: I do. And I’ll be very proud. I will. And I’ll tell everyone and they’ll be like, “sure, Josh, whatever.”
Um, now here in New Orleans, Chris, we are celebrating full on Christmas in July on Life songs. And I have to tell you that the simple fact that you included Billy Mac’s Christmas Is All Around on one of your Christmas projects, has brought me and my wife so much joy, like you can’t even know. And I really hope someone has played it for Bill Nighy.
Chris Llewellyn: I hope so too. You know, um, I, I, I think for us that that moment in that, in that movie is just, it’s iconic Yes. For so many reasons, but, uh. It’s hard to imagine Christmas without it. So, uh, it’s just, it’s a little reference to what actually goes on in our families and how we actually celebrate Christmas.
Josh: it, it literally, it is an instant smile for my family. Like, it’s so good. It’s so ridiculous. I mean, the song itself, it’s terrible itself and the way
Chris Llewellyn: it’s rewritten is so poor. It, it just, it makes it perfect.
Josh: But your cover of it. Makes it an actual song. Like in the movie it’s garbage, but you guys make it such a joyful, wonderful Christmas song.
Chris Llewellyn: Thank you. I think, I think that’s, uh. Joy. Yes. I, I totally agree. I, I still, uh, as a songwriter, I look at it and go, that is a nightmare. That’s a nightmare. The
Josh: if, if you ever like, this is just like one of those secret things. It’s like when third day would throw in a kid’s choir to like get it on the radio.
If you start spelling words in a song, it’s gonna be an instant hit. Like you spell Christmas. We’re in,
Chris Llewellyn: we’re good. Do you know? Yeah, I, because kids love it. Yeah. In particular, they’re like, especially if it’s a word they can spell, it’s like you’ve got an instant kids Classic. Yeah.
Josh: You guys at this point have had many Irish Christmases and probably some American ones too.
What are the big differences and the best of each?
Chris Llewellyn: Oh my goodness. Yeah, I have had a few, so I’ll say American Christmas has met my expectations of being exactly like Home Alone house energy. Yeah. Yeah. Like we always have all the relatives and it’s absolute chaos and pizza boxes everywhere. And, and there’s something that, that chaos is special.
Uh, I, I really love it. I, I love, um. In America, you tie your Christmas tree to the top of your your car. That’s not something you’re allowed to do at home. So that always feels like a really nice little throwback to like watching National Lampoon’s Christmas and watch them to do that.
Josh: So you don’t wanna go out and dig your own tree up.
Chris Llewellyn: Yeah. Maybe not have the full experience that he had, but the part with the trees. Okay. And, and then I think what, what’s special about Northern Ireland Christmas is just the intimacy. I think particularly about like candlelight midnight services on Christmas Eve, uh, in these little Parish churches. And then, you know, pubs that stay open a little bit late on that, on that Christmas Eve, they accommodate it and there’s just something so cozy and like Shire energy.
Josh: That happens. Yeah. There’s such dramatically different, almost opposing forces, and yet both of them are a hundred percent Christmas.
Chris Llewellyn: Agreed. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I’m glad I got to experience ’em both justly,
Josh: or maybe sometime soon you’ll get to go experience like an Australian Christmas or a Fiji Christmas or a Hawaiian Christmas and just get away for a little while.
Chris Llewellyn: Yeah, I think I need to do that for sure. Um, yeah, we actually, we’re working on a Christmas album right now, which in the heat of July in Tennessee. It takes a little bit of imagination, but, um, yeah, we’re, we’re, we’re actually in film Christmas mode right now.
Josh: Chris, thank you so much for, for talking, for sharing your heart, for the music that you guys are bringing to the table.
It’s always a joy and we love you here in New Orleans. Anytime you guys want to come, even not just to play a concert, if you just want to go out to dinner, we’ll take you out. Okay.
Chris Llewellyn: Alright, I’ll, I’ll take you up on that dinner in New Orleans. Yeah, come on. We do it right? Yeah, you do.
