In this episode, host Sherry Bagley, sits down with Aaron Leonard, a retired U.S. Army officer with over 35 years of leadership experience and focuses on developing therapeutic outdoor adventure programs for the well-being of our guardians military service members, veterans and first responders, and Fred Borroel, a licensed professional counselor, supervisor in Texas and founder of RelateAbility, PLLC. The three talk about their path in experiential education, helping the helpers, current struggles, finding clients and marketing efforts, and advice for the next generation of experiential educators.