In this episode Bryan and Jacob are joined by former JudgeCast host Jess Dunks to go over cards of interest from M21 as well as talk about how wildly inconsistent P/T of whales are in relation to their size. Catch up with Jess as we cover intervening if clauses, copy effects, state based actions, playing additional lands, and all sorts of other rules minutia for the discerning rules nerd.