Just BE - Matters of Justice and Biblical Equality

Does the Bible really teach that women are to remain silent in church? As in silent, silent? For all time??? Why did Paul say this and what did he mean?

1 Corinthians 14:34 says, "Women should remain silent in the church. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission as the law says," but WHY and WHAT does Paul mean in saying this??? And what about this mysterious "law" that's mentioned? How can we make sense of this passage, especially given the many other ways that Paul encourages men AND women to participate (with the spoken word!) in church? 

In the last episode, we explored several possible ways of understanding this passage that seem to be the most consistent with what we learn about in several other key passages of the New Testament, and that do not universally exclude women from speaking in church. 

In this episode, we'll discuss how some Bible teachers interpret this passage in a way that reinforces their mindset that women are restricted from preaching in church. 

We start with John MacArthur and his criticisms of Beth Moore, along with taking a brief look at his sermon on 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. You can find those talks here and here. 

Next, we consider what John Piper has to say about women preaching in this Q and A clip. Even though he is a zealous supporter of complimentarity with hierarchy, he does not line up with MacArthur that women need to be silent in church. 

D.A. Carson shares his position on this text in Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, edited by John Piper and Wayne Grudem, but doesn't offer any clear explanation of the text. 

Lastly, we examined Denny Birk's article, "Must Women Be Silent In Churches? (I Corinthians 14:34-35)" published by the 9Marks organization. 

Scripture references include:

1 Corinthians 14:34-35, 1 Corinthians 1:2 and 11:5, & Romans 12:12-13. 

Music by BenSound.com. 

Does the Bible really teach that women are to remain silent in church? Silent silent? For all time? Why did Paul say this and what did he mean?

1 Corinthians 14:34 says, "Women should remain silent in the church. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission as the law says," but WHY and WHAT does Paul mean in saying this??? And what about this nonexistent "law"? How can we make sense of this passage, especially given the many other ways that Paul encourages men AND women to participate (with the spoken word!) in church?  Listen in to find out more!

In Part 1 in this study of 1 Corinthians 14:34-35,  Krista Lucich, explores current biblical scholarship on this difficult passage of scripture and offers several helpful explanations that don't necessary require women to take a vow of silence whenever they enter a church. Check out Part 2 to take a critical look at ways that some people use this verse to support the marginalization of women in church settings.

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Please check out the sources used in preparation for this episode:

1 Corinthians 1:5-10, 11:21, 12:12, 12:21, 14:1-40, NIV

Bristow, John Temple. What Paul Really Said About Women.  Harper & Row, 1988.

Hill, Graham Joseph. Holding Up Half the Sky: A Biblical Case for Women Leading and Teaching in the Church. Cascade Books, 2020.

McKnight, Scot. The Blue Parakeet: Rethinking How You Read the Bible. Zondervan, 2008.

Keener, Craig. "Learning In The Assemblies: 1 Corinthians 14:34-35." Groothius and Pierce, Discovering Biblical Equality: Complimentarity Without Hierarchy. Intervarsity Press, 2004.

Westfall, Cynthia Long. Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle's Vision for Men and Women In Christ. Baker Academic, 2016.

Helpful articles by Marg Mowzcko are here, and here.

John MacArthur's full sermon can be found here.

Music by BenSound.com

1 Corinthians 11 says some things that are difficult for modern readers to fully grasp, and unfortunately, often this passage is interpreted in what seems like misogynistic way. In this episode we uncover a few surprising truths from this passage: "head" does not indicate "authority" in 11:3, a head covering was a sign of status and privilege for the women of Corinth, and that women have authority and glory of their own! Listen in! 

Leave me a voice message here, https://anchor.fm/krista-lucich!   Or reach out on Facebook, here www.faceboo

Related episodes: 2. In the Beginning: The "Male and Female" Joint Partnership in Creation

https://anchor.fm/krista-lucich/episodes/2--In-the-Beginning-The-Male-and-Female-Joint-Partnership-in-Creation-eedntn

Show notes (go to www.anchor.fm/krista-lucich if the show notes aren’t formatted well in your podcast app). 

Fee, Gordon. "Praying and Prophesying in the Assemblies: 1 Corinthians 11:2-16." Discovering Biblical Equality: Complimentarity Without Hierarchy. Ronald Pierce. 2004. 

Here's Bruxey Cavey's quote and his series on marriage: Love, Lust & Loyalty. October 2016. 

Women's Study Bible footnoted by Mary J. Evans and Catherine C. Kroeger 

Articles by Marg Mowczko:  

"Women's Hair in Corinth and in Sydney,"  "Man and Woman as the Image and Glory of God."

 Cynthia Long Westfall lecture, "Does Paul Really Threaten to Shave Women's Heads?" February 4, 2020.  YouTube. 

Westfall, Cynthia Long. Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle's Vision for Men and Women in Christ. 2015. 

Outakes/Extra Information:

 *“Another piece of evidence that shows kephalē did not usually mean “leader” in ancient Greek is that LSJ, the most exhaustive lexicon of ancient Greek, does not include any definition of kephalē that approximates “leader” or “authority”...Al Wolters, who identifies as a complementarian, states that kephalē with a meaning of “leader” is “virtually unattested in pagan Greek literature until about the fourth century AD.”[7] [And, “As far as pagan Greek literature is concerned, LSJ (1996) is entirely justified in omitting the meaning “chief” or “leader” from its entry on kephalē.”[8]...Unfortunately, it seems that many Christians have simply presumed that “head” means “authority” in 1 Corinthians 11:3 as well as in other verses such as Ephesians 5:23. (Head) 

*Is the authority of every man is Christ? Sure, we could say that, even though every man does not choose to come under Christ’s authority.  But, can we say the authority of Christ is God, because Christ and God are 2 parts of the same Trinitarian God and they act in perfect union, not as a hierarchy (although our complementarian friends are actually trying to argue for this, which has been linked to the Arian heresy, which is a topic I have slated to cover soon). Lastly, we could try to say the leader or authority of woman is man, and this is used to suppose that husbands are the leader and authority of their wives, but that is also questionable, especially since Genesis 1:28 gives men and women equal standing as rulers and co-regents in the Garden of Eden. Also, what about single women? So let’s try the metaphor that the Greeks used for the word kephale, instead of supplanting our own linguistic metaphors. 

*As for glory, Lucy Peppiatt argues that this is actually a Corinthian saying that is a corrupted version of Genesis 1:27, that Paul then responds to in Rediscovering Scripture's Vision for Women. 2019.

Music www.bensound.com

Did Jesus actually intend for his choice of 12 male disciples to set the standard for Christian leaders henceforth? 

While the 12 people Jesus chose to be his disciples were Jews, the church does not regard Jewish ethnicity as a prerequisite for pastoring, leading, etc.  However, while the 12 Jesus chose to be his disciples were men, the Church in large part DOES regard masculinity as a prerequisite for pastoring, leading, etc. Is this an appropriate conclusion to draw? 

Catholic theologians regard the maleness of "the 12" as conclusive evidence for male-only ordination. Meanwhile, Protestant theologians who agree with the conclusion of the Catholic church, do not agree that the maleness of the 12 provides sufficient reasoning for excluding women from ordination.  If they can't agree on the reasoning for their conclusions, is the reasoning as strong as their conclusion seems?

In this episode Krista explains: 1) the significance of the 12 male apostles is a sign of the fulfillment of Old Covenant promises to the people of Israel, and 2) there were LOTS of apostles--with women among them! ( 1 Cor 15:6, Romans 16:7, Luke 10:1)  

The 12 male apostles served a symbolic purpose that spoke to the Jews of a promise fulfilled; but after Pentecost the gospel would go forth to all kinds of people through all kinds of people. 

Sources: 

Smietana, Bob. "Sunday Morning in America Still Segregated – and That’s OK With Worshipers." Lifeway Research. January 15, 2015. 

Pope John Paul, II. "ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS OF JOHN PAUL II TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON RESERVING PRIESTLY ORDINATION TO MEN ALONE." Apolostolic Letter. 1994. 

DeTurris, Mary. "Why Women Can't Be Priests." Our Sunday Visitor. December 17, 1995.

Schreiner, Tom. “A male apostolate does not prove that women should not serve as leaders, but when combined with the other evidence, it does serve as confirmatory evidence for the complementarian view.” 

Mowczko, Marg. "The Twelve Apostles Were All Male."  Exploring the biblical theology of Christian egalitarianism. May 2, 2002. https://margmowczko.com/the-twelve-apostles-were-all-male/

Bilezikian, Gilbert. Community 101. Taken from God's Word to Women, 2005.

Westfall, Cynthia Long. Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle's Vision for Men and Women in Christ. 2015. 

Music by Krista Lucich. 

Are you feeling like a Mary, serving Jesus while others around us gripe and complain?

Are you struggling to take fellow Christians seriously because of your own biases and discriminations?

Or, are you like Jesus, in a position to set the record straight by uplifting and advocating for others? 

Listen to find out if you're more of a Mary, a disciple, or Jesus!

In this episode Krista gives a talk about persevering through discrimination to a group of high school students. No matter their insecurities and possible feelings of not “fitting in,” Krista encourages and empowers these students to live out their faith with confidence, even if fellow Christians falter in being exclusive, self-important and dismissive. Mary of Bethany and Mary Magdalene face the nagging reality of gender discrimination even among the other disciples, and Jesus time and again, affirms the women while correcting the mistaken disciples. 

Much thanks to Trinity Christian Academy Cape Cod for the opportunity to speak to your wonderful students!

Music written and performed by Krista Lucich

Sources:

N.T. Wright, "Women’s Service in the Church: The Biblical Basis."  Symposium, ‘Men, Women and the Church,' St John’s College, Durham, September 4 2004. 

Marg Mowczko, "JESUS HAD MANY FEMALE FOLLOWERS – MANY!"  Exploring the Biblical theology of Christian egalitarianism.  Mar 14, 2014.

Maggie Wallem Rowe, author of This Life We Share: 52 reflections on journeying well with God and others, shares many life insights with Krista as they chat about some of the many ministry opportunities that Maggie stepped into over her lifetime as a pastor's wife, teacher, actor, writer, publishing administrator, promoter, and author. Maggie's humble and loving attitude toward life comes through in this interview as she oozes encouragement for others and faithfulness to God. Listen in! 

And be sure to check out her book and her blog! 

"Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love." ~Mother Teresa

It's the 100th anniversary of women's suffrage! Krista looks at the prevailing cultural influences that supported and opposed women's suffrage and considers the way that culture impacts our beliefs today.  Today it seems so strange to keep women from voting, but it was a widely held belief that voting fell outside of the appropriate "roles" for women to have in society.  Will the prevailing status "roles" of women in today's churches be looked upon in 100 years as an oppressive oddity of the past? Is it a stretch to relate these two issues? Listen and find out!

Sources:

The 2nd Great Awakening 

Charles Finney

Hassey, Janet. "Evangelical Women in Ministry a  Century Ago." Discovering Biblical Equality. 2004.

Grenz. Stanley. Women in the Church. 1995.

Angelina Grimke

Francis Willard and Ida B. Wells 

Did you know that the passages in the Bible that tell wives to submit to their husbands also tell slaves to submit to their masters? If it's wrong to enslave people, then why are slaves told to submit to their slavery? If there's a cultural and contextual reason for slaves to submit to an unjust system, maybe there's also a cultural and contextual reason that wives are told to submit that isn't applicable in our modern societies. Krista explores this idea and how modern readers can apply these verses to their lives in this episode. 

Sources:

Alan F. Johnson, "A Christian Understanding of Submission" link to article

Cynthia Long Westfall, Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle's Vision for Men and Women in Christ

I. Howard Marshall, "Mutual Love and Submission in Marriage," Discovering Biblical Equality

Scripture reference from The Message and the NRSV.

Music, written and performed by Krista Lucich

Krista and Rick discuss some common misconceptions on the notion of submission in marriage in regards to Ephesians 5:21-22, along with cultural expections first century wives faces. They consider what Christ-likeness in a marriage looks like, and Rick asks us to consider our own skewed perspectives that we bring to our marriage relationships. Rick answers my question, "is being equal in being, but unequal in function or role" really a truism of Christianity?" After exploring the idea that since most western Christian marriages have as an ideal a sense of equality and partnership (at least in their best moments), Krista asks, could that be an ideal that we could adopt in our churches and institutions as well?

Equally Yoked: What the Bible Really Teaches About God's Idea for the Genders, by Rick McKinniss

Leave me a voice message here! Or reach out via Facebook here!

Krista and Rick discuss some common misconceptions on the notion of submission in marriage in regards to Ephesians 5:21-22, along with cultural expections first century wives faces. They consider what Christ-likeness in a marriage looks like, and Rick asks us to consider our own skewed perspectives that we bring to our marriage relationships. Rick answers my question, "is being equal in being, but unequal in function or role" really a truism of Christianity?" After exploring the idea that since most western Christian marriages have as an ideal a sense of equality and partnership (at least in their best moments), Krista asks, could that be an ideal that we could adopt in our churches and institutions as well?

Equally Yoked: What the Bible Really Teaches About God's Idea for the Genders, by Rick McKinniss

Leave me a voice message here! Or reach out via Facebook here!