How do we measure racism? In such politically charged terrain, the need for objective data is clear.

By some surveys, half of Brits don’t believe that racism exists. Keon West, social psychologist and visiting professor at LSE, joins the podcast to discuss this phenomenon.

Keon explains what data can tell us, and delves into the surprising ways that the UK compares to the US. He unpacks the ingenious studies that reveal how racism really works, and why he thinks the Sewell report commissioned by Boris Johnson was “deeply flawed”.

He also talks about conducting experiments in a time of “alternative facts”, why we need to trust the science, instead of just relying on scientists, and how those on the left and right can improve discussions about racism.

Plus, after Zelensky’s “dressing down” at the White House, Ellen and Alona talk dress codes: banger or dud?

Keon’s book ‘The Science of Racism’ is published by Pan Macmillan and is available here.

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