Michael and Chris discuss their dreams and fantasies of success, brushes with successful people, the journey towards success, and jealousy of those who have succeed as artists. We wrap up with a definition of "making it" in light of our identities in the Father.

Chronological Index:

Michael intro

Chris talks about “Doing what you want to do” and Augustine / Jesus’ answer in the Gospel of John / What is “making it?”

Michael shares story about a Christian band that “made it,” the temptations his friends in the band faced, and his past desire to be in a successful band

Our definition of “making it” / Dreaming about success

Michael expands on the Augustine quote and some of his experiences in a band

Michael’s anecdote about his jealousy of another Christian band

Michael mentions a friend who wants to “make it” and deliver a TED Talk someday

Chris tells a story about a situation he was in where some would say he “made it,” yet he saw himself as a failure / Chasing success is an endless, hollow pursuit

Michael’s early days as an actor / When has an actor “made it?”

Chris discusses the journey to success and excellence as an artist who leans on Christ

Michael and Chris discuss how to conduct oneself with integrity as a Christian artist (we discuss a couple of our audio fiction projects)

Chris turned down some opportunities on big shows after weighing God’s will against career success

The difficulty of being a hugely famous Christian in Hollywood

Mention of Justine Bateman’s book on the perils of fame (Fame: The Hijacking of Reality) / Chris ran into a famous acquaintance in a 99 Cents store

Keeping Michael’s successful musician friends in prayer

We discuss Go-Go’s member Jane Wiedlin’s recent comment about what she learned from failure

Wisdom regarding failure comes with age / our identity in the Father

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Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/kingofthemiddle/

Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb5n-I2bqiw

Chris’s Website

http://www.cmobmo.com

Michael’s Website and Amazon page

https://michaeljoelgreen.wordpress.com/

https://www.amazon.com/Michael-Joel-Green/e/B007SCU7DS/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_ebooks_1

We dig into some of our favorite horror films and discuss what Christian artists can learn from the genre. Why would believers create art that incorporate demons and evil? Are there lines we shouldn't cross? What does the Bible say about ghosts? 

-- Michael intro: Is it okay for Christians to watch horror films?

-- Why cover this subject in this series?

-- Michael’s favorite horror films

-- Chris’s favorite horror films / Discussion of The Exorcist and its variants: church leaders who grapple with their faith when demons show up

-- When the devil reveals himself in the real world, it isn’t always what we may expect / Chris’s experience inside a Buddhist temple in 2016

-- Why Chris likes The Exorcism of Emily Rose

-- Horror films done well can teach us powerful storytelling techniques as artists

-- Chris asks Michael about the dangers of writing about demons and whether artists open themselves up to trouble / Michael’s personal story: being stalked by a dark force during his Seattle days

-- Chris differentiates movies about evil from movies with demonic villains / This genre reveals the truth about moral relativism: it’s false. There is such a thing as absolute truth / Chris’s fear of writing in this genre

-- Discussion about the Book of Job: evil befalls him by Satan’s hand, but God elevated and protected Job in the end / Are some people more sensitive to the spiritual battle around us?

-- The Sixth Sense and ghosts / How do we deal with ghosts as Christians? (See Biblical and article links below this index) / Samuel’s spirit appears to Saul; Rich young ruler calls out to Heaven from the pit

30:48 Michael discusses a Christian man he knew who was tormented by a dark force

-- Chris clarifies the difference between demons and ghosts / Are ghosthunter shows real? / The purgatory issue / Are benevolent ghost tales wrong to tell as a believer? / Synopsis of film “A Ghost Story”

-- Films that end unsatisfactorily (God doesn't exist vs truthful bad endings) / Why you cannot believe in demons and not God

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Theological backing for this discussion:

Saul asks Medium of Endor to summon Samuel (1 Samuel 28:3-20).

The rich man calls out to Abraham for permission to return to life and warn his family about the consequences of death (Luke 16:19-31).

Thomas sees Jesus resurrected (John 20:24-29). Jesus was not a ghost, but flesh and blood.

The holy ones rose when Jesus was crucified (Matthew 27:52). They were not spirits but flesh and blood.

Nice brief article on the issue by Rick Barry: https://answersingenesis.org/angels-and-demons/do-you-believe-in-ghosts/

AND

Chris's limited series podcast (pandemics, zombies, and evil) with Brian Godawa: Anchor.fm/god-and-entertainment

CHRIS and MICHAEL'S LINKS

KotM's Youtube channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYhB_T8K03t8WO1XyvjaKWA

KotM's Facebook page is Facebook.com/kingofthemiddle

Chris's website is Cmobmo.com

Michael's website is Michaeljoelgreen.wordpress.com

Recounting their early youth, Michael and Chris discuss what they've learned about not quitting, taking criticism, and the wisdom of learning how to "kill their darlings."

-- Michael intro

-- Chris’s track and field story: a great metaphor for his brokenness

-- Michael’s football dream hit a blockade / The experience led him towards a career in music and an ideological stance against quitting

-- We distinguish between failure of grandiose dreams vs failures of personal passion projects

-- Michael’s expands on a story from episode one: an actress he knew was hurt by external forces that attempted to force her down an improper career path

-- Chris reveals how painful it is when art we create with passion doesn’t impact others / It’s hard to be a good self-critic

-- Michael’s difficulty listening to his own recordings / A cautionary tale: how to navigate the temptation to correlate success and accolades as an actor with one’s true self-worth

-- How finding your identity in the Father frees you as an artist

-- The push to be a constant self-promoter can be a pitfall, especially for believers / How to guard yourself from this risk

-- Chris’s need for Christian relationships to ground him and direct him away from over-focusing on around-the-clock career advancement / The difficulty in forming new church friendships in Los Angeles / Being a workout-aholic

-- Michael talks about the true calling of believers and shares a beautiful story about an interaction with a resident during his service at a homeless shelter

-- Outro

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Our Youtube channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYhB_T8K03t8WO1XyvjaKWA

Our Facebook page is Facebook.com/kingofthemiddle

Chris's work can be found at Cmobmo.com

Michael's Amazon page is here and his website is Michaeljoelgreen.wordpress.com

Michael and Chris introduce the series and the meaning of the phrase "King of the Middle." They also discuss how they made inroads into their vocations in the arts with tales of mistakes and missteps along the way.

00:10 Michael intro

00:28 Chris intro / What does “King of the Middle” mean? / Are we wrong to pursue art over stable careers?

05:03 Michael’s background and struggles with faith as a young man and the path that led him to settle in Los Angeles

10:31 Michael joins a band in Seattle

13:59 Chris comments about putting one’s faith in action and why we feel we must do it through art

14:56 Michael responds to Chris

15:44 Michael continues the discussion about his band / How he improved at the craft

16:23 A setback in the band and his career / Pushing forward with humility

20:29 Chris talks about fear of criticism / Failing to ask the Father to direct his vocation and the consequences

23:48 Learning to submit to the Father / Why are we doing this podcast now?

25:31 Why Michael decided to settle in Los Angeles and shift his focus from acting and writing

29:20 Michael’s last acting gig

30:35 Introduction to Chris’s background from college to Los Angeles

31:31 Quick mention of Michael Apted’s “Up” series and how predictions can be made about a person’s life patterns from a young age

32:44 Chris heads off to Christian film school then to Hollywood / Meeting Quentin Tarantino’s future editor / Getting hired on his first job by the granddaughter of a Hollywood studio mogul / Chris’s failed tv series and website projects / His path to the studio system

40:01 How Chris got onto Curb Your Enthusiasm and the faith dilemma he faced once he got there

46:05 Why Chris is thankful for some of his failure / His final studio job working for Ryan Murphy’s production company

49:23 Michael talks about the genesis of his book idea for “King of the Middle” / Pride is a killer

51:47 How it feels when a Christian passion project falls apart

53:05 Guarding against anger when faith-based projects don’t pan out / What can we learn from this kind of failure?

53:55 The positive consequences of a failed project

57:35 Setup for next episode: Our struggles against selfish pursuits / High school origins

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Michael’s song “For the Love of a Beautiful Heart” (and remix as mentioned in this episode) will be posted soon…

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Our Youtube channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYhB_T8K03t8WO1XyvjaKWA

Our Facebook page is: Facebook.com/kingofthemiddle

For information about Chris's current and upcoming projects, visit Cmobmo.com

For information about Michael's current and upcoming projects, visit his Amazon page and Michaeljoelgreen.wordpress.com

Michael and Chris introduce the new podcast series and briefly discuss what it means to be "King of the Middle."

Our Youtube channel is here

Our Facebook page is Facebook.com/kingofthemiddle

Chris's website is Cmobmo.com

Michael's Amazon page is here and his website is Michaeljoelgreen.wordpress.com