What do football and s*x have in common? More than you’d think. In this episode of Our Patients Are Having Sex, Isiah is joined by Roger (“Rog”) Butler—a sexuality educator trained in Process-Oriented Psychology—to unpack kink, BDSM, fetishes and the slippery idea of “normal.”

Rog offers a simple reframe clinicians can use immediately: if a client spends time, money and energy on football, we call it passion; if they do the same with s*x, we often call it a problem. He invites us to apply a quick “football test” to our bias and ask: Is anyone being harmed? and Can they dial it back if needed?

We cover:

• What “kink,” “BDSM,” and “fetish” actually mean (and why “normal” is contextual)

• Consent, safety, language and how to be curious without shaming

• When you don’t need to be a sex expert—and how to make a non-judgmental referral

• A simple 2–3 minute game that reduces pressure and helps couples rediscover touch

• Why addressing the “no” (barriers, brakes, shame) often unlocks the “yes” (desire, play, connection)

If you’re a therapist, GP, nurse, physio, or anyone who supports humans, this conversation is practical, de-shaming and—yes—fun.