Kith and Kin Unscripted: Real Talk on Independent Hospitality

Every hospitality founder has been told the same thing. Respond to every review. Cassie Davison thinks that advice is wrong, and in this episode she explains exactly why.

Hospitality SME expert, speaker and author Cassie Davison walks through the customer loyalty model from her book Stand Out Hospitality, hostages, mercenaries, disruptors, ghosts, loyal customers and fans, and unpacks why hospitality businesses barely have hostages at all, why chasing mercenaries with vouchers is a losing game, and why the disruptors kicking off online deserve none of your time or energy.

The customers who actually matter are the loyal ones and the fans, the people who walk in and recognise the music, the menu, the room, the other people around them, and think, these are my people. Cassie explains why giving them your full attention, instead of chasing approval from everyone else, is the real work of building a hospitality business people belong to.

This episode is for café owners, restaurant founders, pub landlords and street food traders who are tired of being told to fight for everyone's approval, and for anyone working alongside independent hospitality who wants to understand how these businesses actually think about their customers.

Cassie Davison is the author of Stand Out Hospitality, Highly Commended at The Business Book Awards 2026, and founder of Kith&Kin Hospitality. She holds an MBA and is a Fellow of the British Institute of Innkeeping (FBII), and has spent over 25 years building, losing and rebuilding hospitality businesses.

Who are your people? Cassie wants to know.

📖 Stand Out Hospitality, the book: kithkinhospitality.co.uk/stand-out-hospitality
🔗 Connect with Cassie: linkedin.com/in/cassiedavison1

#StandOutHospitality #KithAndKin #IndependentHospitality #SMEHospitality #HospitalityLeadership #RestaurantOwner #CafeOwner #PubLandlord #StreetFoodBusiness #HospitalityPodcast

Every hospitality operator has a moment they fell in love with the industry. This is mine.

In this episode, hospitality SME expert, speaker and author Cassie Davison traces the real story behind 25 years in independent hospitality, from watching her own parents transform at the pub as a child, to her first jobs behind a bar in Manchester and a summer working at the pub by Foxton Locks. Along the way, she unpacks the three things she believes every person in hospitality falls in love with, whether they've ever put words to it or not: the service, the team, and the chaos.

This episode is for independent hospitality operators, café owners, restaurant founders, pub landlords and street food traders, and for anyone working alongside them who wants to understand what running one of these businesses actually feels like from the inside.

Cassie Davison is the author of Stand Out Hospitality, Highly Commended at The Business Book Awards 2026, and founder of Kith&Kin Hospitality. She holds an MBA and is a Fellow of the British Institute of Innkeeping (FBII), and has spent over 25 years building, losing and rebuilding hospitality businesses.

What made you fall in love with hospitality? Cassie asks every operator she meets, and she's asking you too.

📖 Stand Out Hospitality, the book: kithkinhospitality.co.uk/stand-out-hospitality
🔗 Connect with Cassie: linkedin.com/in/cassiedavison1

#StandOutHospitality #KithAndKin #IndependentHospitality #SMEHospitality #HospitalityLeadership #RestaurantOwner #CafeOwner #PubLandlord #StreetFoodBusiness #HospitalityPodcast

In Conversation

In the first Stand Out Hospitality Conversation, Cassie Davison is joined by Michael Tingsager, host of the Hospitality Maverick podcast, to explore what the most resilient hospitality businesses do differently.

Through more than 300 conversations with hospitality leaders around the world, Michael has developed a framework he calls Agile Hospitality. It identifies the patterns that help hospitality businesses remain adaptable, people-focused and commercially strong in a constantly changing industry.

In this conversation, Cassie and Michael explore the principles behind that thinking and what they mean for independent hospitality operators running pubs, restaurants, cafés, bars and hotels.

They discuss:

• Why clarity of purpose is essential in hospitality
• The idea of graceful growth and building businesses for the long term
• The pursuit of mastery rather than settling for average performance
• How radical transparency builds trust with teams and customers
• Why giving teams a stake in the outcome strengthens culture
• The importance of freedom to operate for frontline teams

The conversation also explores a wider idea: that hospitality is ultimately about human connection, and the businesses that thrive are those that build systems and cultures that protect that humanity while still running strong commercial operations.

This episode is particularly relevant for independent hospitality business owners and leaders navigating the realities of running complex small businesses in a fast-changing world.

About the Stand Out Hospitality Conversations

This episode is part of the Stand Out Hospitality Conversations, hosted by Cassie Davison. The series brings together leading voices from across the industry to explore leadership, culture and the future of independent hospitality.

About Cassie Davison

Cassie Davison spent more than 30 years as a hospitality owner-operator and is the author of Stand Out Hospitality. She now works across the industry through speaking, writing and the Kith & Kin Hospitality community, which brings independent operators together for conversation and shared insight.

Episode Summary

In this heartfelt and insightful episode, Cassie welcomes Katy Moses, founder and Managing Director of KAM, the leading insight consultancy in UK hospitality. From childhood memories of Chiquitos and fizzy drinks to launching a data-led business that’s shaping the future of pubs and restaurants, Katy shares her journey with honesty and humour.

They explore the emotional power of hospitality, why pubs remain the heart of the community, and how insight—not just instinct—drives better decisions. Katy also talks about KAM’s origins, how the pandemic transformed the industry, and what she believes the future of hospitality—and the pub—is really about.

Expect stories, laughter, and a dose of proper industry truth.

• Katy’s early love of hospitality and first memories of eating out

• Why research and insight are essential in modern hospitality

• Pubs as places of belonging, choice, and community

• The impact of COVID-19 on the sector—and how it accelerated progress

• How KAM started (thanks to one determined client and Companies House)

• Low and no alcohol trends: zebra striping, bookending, and guest expectations

• Why listening to customers is more than just a “gut feeling”

• The evolving identity of pubs—and why the best ones never forget their purpose

• The future of hospitality: community, technology, and meaningful innovation

“The pub is like a microcosm of society—everyone matters as much as everyone else.” – Katy Moses

• KAM Insight Website: www.kaminsight.com

• Knowledge Hub (free insight, reports & webinars): Knowledge Hub

• Email Katy: [email protected]

• Follow KAM on LinkedIn: KAM Insight

• Join the Kith & Kin community: https://kithkinhospitality.co.uk/

• LinkedIn: Cassie Davison

Topics CoveredQuote of the EpisodeLinks & ResourcesConnect with Cassie

Host: Cassie Davison
Guest: Bex Wilkins, Co-Founder of Makers of Hospitality

In this energising episode of the Kith & Kin Hospitality Podcast, Cassie sits down with Bex Wilkins, co-founder of Makers of Hospitality and former Marketing Director at Peach Pubs. With a journey that started aged 13 washing pots and now sees her launching her second independent pub, Bex’s story is proof that the best operators are built, not born.

We talk about growing up in kitchens, falling in and out of love with the industry, and what it really takes to build a values-led hospitality business today. From corporate frustrations to freedom, Bex shares why she left a high-profile career to create something of her own—and how she’s doing it differently this time, with purpose, leadership, and the right people around her.

Whether you're a pub operator, future founder, or just love a great comeback story—this is for you.

00:01 – Meet Bex: From KP to co-founder of Makers of Hospitality
01:28 – Aged 13, pot washing in Bromsgrove (and now back again, with her own pub)
04:11 – Young people in pubs: why early work builds confidence and resilience
07:19 – Learning the value of work early—and the lessons that stay for life
10:14 – From reluctant manager to passionate marketer
12:56 – Life at Peach Pubs: learning, growing, and finding her voice
15:16 – Moving from operations to marketing leadership (without a degree)
18:42 – When the corporate dream doesn’t fit: knowing it’s time to leave
20:48 – Craving change, making the leap, and backing yourself
22:31 – The pub that sparked it all—and convincing her wife to join the journey
24:46 – Transforming a derelict building into a vibrant community pub
26:20 – The hard truth: not all independents survive, but the best still can
28:35 – Being proactive, staying competitive, and using social media well
30:24 – Adapting to change: lower alcohol, higher standards
33:08 – What makes a pub matter: it’s not the drink—it’s the feeling
35:21 – Inside the pub: quality-led, seasonal food and a warm welcome
37:37 – Fish on Fridays, Chianti on Saturdays: listening to what guests want
38:46 – No safety net: the reality of being your own boss
39:56 – Opening pub #2—and why tenancies made sense for their growth
41:23 – Building the team she never had: mentorship, equality, and fun
44:11 – Paying fairly, promoting internally, and creating a workplace people love
45:54 – Fortune favours the brave—and Bex is just getting started

Co-Founder – Makers of Hospitality
With over a decade at Peach Pubs and a passion for people-first business, Bex is on a mission to build beautiful, high-quality pubs where food, values, and leadership all matter. Alongside her wife and business partner, she’s creating spaces that feel good to visit—and even better to work in.

🔗 Follow Bex on LinkedIn
🌐 Visit Makers of Hospitality (add link when available)

At Kith & Kin, we believe hospitality is more than a business—it’s a calling. We tell the real stories behind independent hospitality with warmth, honesty, and a deep respect for the people who make it happen.

🌍 cassiedavison.co.uk
🔗 Connect with Cassie on LinkedIn
📲 Want to join the Kith & Kin WhatsApp community?
Message Cassie via LinkedIn or the website to request access.

• Set High Standards – From menu design to team culture, Bex leads with quality and care.

• Stand Out – Makers of Hospitality is carving out a niche in a crowded space—with values at the core.

• Define Your Identity – From free-range menus to community connection, everything reflects a clear vision.

• Build Loyalty – The team stays because they’re supported, developed, and respected.

• Tell a Great Story – Bex’s journey is one of courage, growth, and rewriting the script.

This episode is a reminder that great businesses start with brave decisions—and the belief that it can be better.

🍻 From KP to co-founder: a story of guts, grit, and going your own way in hospitality.

Cassie Davison welcomes Jackie Moody McNamara—a hospitality lifer who’s gone from sleeping on pool tables as a child to shaping executive teams across sectors. Founder of Be Brilliant, Jackie now works as a coach and consultant for businesses and individuals, helping them unlock confidence, align with purpose, and build safe, thriving environments for growth.

Episode Summary
With a rich story that starts in Birmingham’s community pubs and stretches all the way to boardroom influence, Jackie brings warmth, wisdom, and hard-won perspective to this episode. She shares how being raised above pubs by Irish immigrant parents shaped her deep sense of hospitality and belonging, and how that lived experience still guides her coaching today.

We explore Jackie’s transition from pub manager to training lead, to executive director running 500 pubs—often as the only woman in the room—and how she learned to embrace her voice and values along the way. She and Cassie discuss motherhood, resilience, and how adversity and purpose often intertwine. Most powerfully, Jackie reflects on the work she does now: holding space for others, encouraging senior women to own their impact, and helping teams rediscover connection through storytelling.

If you’re passionate about people, purpose, and what it really takes to build a strong, values-led business—this one’s for you.

Key Discussion Points & Timestamps

00:28 – Meet Jackie: Founder of Be Brilliant and veteran of the hospitality industry
01:57 – Growing up in pubs: A family home full of warmth, community, and customers
03:12 – From stew for the regulars to Christmas dinners for the homeless—hospitality as heart
08:46 – Early work behind the bar, high standards, and falling into hospitality (and loving it)
10:05 – First pub at 18: A stand-in relief manager turned full-time career
11:25 – Learning by doing: Building empathy and adaptability from short-term pub placements
13:03 – Walking into someone else’s business—and learning how to lead with respect
14:24 – The unparalleled early career training hospitality provides young people
15:32 – Being the only woman in the room—and not letting it stop your rise
16:30 – Turned down for a pub because she was single—and how that opened new doors
17:29 – Imposter syndrome, quick progression, and learning to own your place at the table
24:38 – Four intense years: marriage, loss, motherhood, and managing a 500-site estate
26:41 – A bold choice: leaving a 21-year career for family time—and what came next
29:23 – Full circle: Watching your former team members rise—and being invited to work for them
32:55 – When values don’t align: Learning when to walk away
33:25 – Founding Be Brilliant: From accidental coach to strategic mentor
34:51 – Who Jackie works with: SMEs, senior women, and leadership teams across industries
36:36 – Coaching women to know their worth—and negotiate for it
38:19 – From pub kid to safe space creator: Why storytelling is everything in building connection
39:22 – The timeline exercise: How personal stories change team dynamics
42:08 – Sharing the hard stuff: Building true belonging through emotional connection
43:12 – Turning heartbreak and heaviness into purpose and progress
45:47 – The biggest change in hospitality: Losing pubs—but not losing hope
47:16 – Hospitality’s magic formula: Opportunity, growth, and real people-first careers

Connect with Jackie
🔗 Find Jackie on LinkedIn
🌐 Visit: bebrilliantcoaching.co.uk (or search "Be Brilliant Jackie Moody McNamara")
💬 Jackie works with individuals, teams and businesses—especially where people, purpose and leadership matter most.

Keep up with Kith & Kin
🌍 Visit: cassiedavison.co.uk
🔗 Connect with Cassie on LinkedIn
📲 Want to join the Kith & Kin WhatsApp community for hospitality?
Message Cassie via LinkedIn or the website to request access

This episode is a reminder that behind every confident leader is a story—and the courage to share it.

Cassie Davison sits down with Vic, founder and CEO of DataHawks, and a hospitality veteran with over three decades of hands-on experience—from pulling pints in her teens to leading brand strategy at national chains. With her unique blend of operational grit and marketing insight, Vic now helps hospitality businesses use their own customer data to drive real, measurable growth.

Episode Summary
What happens when someone who truly understands hospitality—on the floor, behind the bar, and in the boardroom—turns her focus to data? You get DataHawks. In this powerful episode, Vic shares her journey from 18-year-old pub manager to industry disruptor, explaining how hospitality brands can stop guessing and start growing by understanding their customers on a deeper level. Cassie and Vic dig into the disconnect between operations and marketing, why brands get stuck in “broadcast mode,” and how a smart, customer-first approach to data transforms loyalty and revenue. Plus, Vic opens up about building communities, letting go of burnout, and finding purpose again in hospitality.

It’s candid, bold, and packed with game-changing takeaways for operators, marketers, and founders alike.

Key Discussion Points & Timestamps

00:26 – Meet Vic: CEO of DataHawks, with 31 years in hospitality and a journey that started behind the bar
01:31 – Gifted a pub at 18: The fast-track chaos (and charm) of early hospitality careers
03:06 – Overpromoted and underprepared: Why the industry needs to support its young talent better
05:30 – Vertical drinking and Bacardi Breezers: A look back at wild ‘90s pub culture
06:15 – Learning to run a business at Revolution Soho: Numbers, accountability, and rapid growth
07:34 – Bridging the ops-marketing gap: Why flyers under the door don’t cut it
09:41 – Falling in love with branding: Freelancing, concept work, and making creative ideas operational
11:44 – What marketers should be doing: Knowing the customer, tracking the impact, and moving the dial
12:42 – The madness behind big brand decisions—and why “yummy mummies” isn’t a customer profile
18:54 – When data replaces anecdote: Real stories of insight vs. guesswork
20:53 – If you can make it work in Milton Keynes… Why regional sites reveal the real strength of a brand
22:27 – The inspiration: Tesco Clubcard and the power of customer insight
24:44 – Why loyalty isn’t about discounts—it’s about understanding your guests
27:22 – The birth of DataHawks: Turning overlooked data into tangible, trackable revenue
30:16 – From insight to action: Building ROI-focused customer journeys with purpose
33:36 – Why DataHawks doesn’t chase algorithms—they own the channel and message instead
36:11 – It's not just numbers: Data as the whisper in the ear of hospitality CRM
38:11 – What’s wrong with marketing today: Brands are broadcasting, not building relationships
40:23 – Loyalty is dead—long live connection: Reclaiming purpose in a high-pressure industry
44:23 – The pathway back to loyalty: Connection → engagement → trust
48:29 – For businesses just starting: Start collecting meaningful data, and act with intention
51:10 – Community as fuel: Vic’s WhatsApp group and passing the baton to Glenda
55:27 – Rediscovering purpose: What COVID taught us about collaboration and care in hospitality

Connect with Vic & DataHawks
📧 Explore services at: www.datahawks.co.uk
🔗 Say hello to Vic on LinkedIn
🗣 Want to learn how DataHawks can support your business? Reach out directly

Keep up with Kith & Kin
🌍 Visit: cassiedavison.co.uk
🔗 Connect with Cassie on LinkedIn
📲 Want to join the Kith & Kin WhatsApp community for hospitality? Message Cassie via LinkedIn or the website to request access

You don’t need more customers—you need stronger connections with the ones you already have. This episode is a masterclass in how to make that happen.

Cassie is joined by Glenda Barber, a South Wales native turned freelance marketing consultant, whose love for hospitality began as a child in her grandparents’ pub. From pulling pints and building community to now shaping brand narratives for some of the industry’s leading voices, Glenda brings a rare mix of heart, hustle, and marketing savvy.

Episode Summary
In this feel-good, insight-packed episode, Glenda shares her personal and professional journey through the hospitality world—from early service jobs to scaling national brands like Brains Brewery and Cosy Club, to launching a thriving freelance career supporting B2B hospitality powerhouses. She and Cassie dive into the emotional weight of hospitality spaces, how intuition fuels great marketing, and why returning to this industry felt like coming home. Glenda also reveals her role as the new host of one of the most active hospitality marketing communities in the UK—where ideas, support, and good chat flow daily. This episode is a celebration of everything hospitality does best: connect, uplift, and create unforgettable experiences.

Key Discussion Points & Timestamps

00:27 – Meet Glenda: Freelance marketing consultant with deep hospitality roots
01:54 – Cardiff memories: Ice cream floats and childhood impressions of service
03:12 – First jobs, lasting impact: How early shifts in a pub shaped her career
05:45 – Lifelong connections: The teams that helped define her sense of purpose
08:37 – Trying other industries: Why hospitality feels different—and better
11:29 – High growth at Loungers: Storytelling, speed, and serious ambition
13:49 – It starts with trust: How Cozy Club openings were grounded in local connection
14:18 – Freelancing after motherhood: Staying close to hospitality in new ways
15:28 – From WhatsApp to powerhouse network: Leading a 700-strong marketing community
18:56 – Sharing over secrecy: How the pandemic changed the industry’s mindset
21:02 – Championing B2B women in hospitality: Glenda’s inspiring client roster
23:26 – Translating front-of-house intuition into brand strategy
26:10 – Service that gives you goosebumps: Glenda’s experience at Six by Nico
28:38 – Bad service stories that stick: Why empathy and awareness matter
29:51 – The small things that change everything: Being present for your guests
30:26 – Want in on the community? How to join Glenda’s hospitality marketing group

Connect with Glenda
💼 Reach out to Glenda on LinkedIn
📱 Want to join the hospitality marketing group? Message her directly to be added

Stay Connected with Kith & Kin
🎧 Subscribe, rate & review the podcast
🌍 Learn more at https://www.cassiedavison.co.uk/

This episode is a love letter to hospitality—not just as a career path, but as a place where intuition, creativity, and connection come to life. Whether you're in marketing, operations, or dreaming up your next venture, Glenda’s story will remind you why this industry matters.

This week, Cassie is joined by Sorrel Ward, newly appointed Sales and Marketing Director at Wembley Arena, to explore her incredible career path in hospitality. From flipping burgers at 14 to running marketing for major hospitality brands, Sorrel’s story is a testament to the endless opportunities the industry provides.

She shares how hospitality shaped her skills, why she transitioned from front-of-house roles into marketing, and how relationships and networks have fueled her career growth. Now, as she steps into the world of large-scale events at Wembley, Sorrel reflects on why hospitality is more than just a stopgap—it’s a career full of possibility.

⏱ [00:08] – Welcome & introduction to Sorrel
⏱ [00:34] – A career-defining start: Flipping burgers at 14
⏱ [02:33] – From acting aspirations to finding a passion for hospitality
⏱ [05:02] – Working in Guernsey: The magic of seasonal hospitality
⏱ [07:38] – Travel & hospitality: From Cape Town to Australia
⏱ [12:26] – Climbing the ranks: From bar work to management training
⏱ [15:06] – Why hospitality is still misunderstood as a career path
⏱ [17:28] – Transitioning to training & management roles
⏱ [21:43] – Moving into marketing & the power of hospitality networks
⏱ [30:26] – The evolution of hospitality: Marketing in a changing landscape
⏱ [37:42] – The next big move: Starting at Wembley Arena

🔗 Connect with Sorrel on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/sorrel-ward-24ab288/
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