When do you know to pivot or surrender?

Koen Bok and Jorn van Dijk co-founded Framer, the web design platform that helps designers ship beautiful sites fast. 55% of YC companies run on it. Designers love it. But Framer almost didn't make it.

What began as a high-fidelity prototyping tool born inside Facebook's design culture became—after a near-death pivot five years in—the premier site builder for designers who ship. 

Over drinks at the Lone Palm in San Francisco, Koen and Jorn recall what it took to step back from the brink of oblivion and chart a new course — for themselves and the field of digital design.

00:00 Intro: Lone Palm, Last Call

01:34 What is Framer Today?

02:39 Pick a Problem You Love

06:14 Three Interactions to Fifty

08:20 Rough Riding / Why VC is Good

11:38 Three Options Left

14:31 The Pivotal Lunch

20:46 Act III: Solving the Walkie-Talkie

29:08 Artistry meets Wall Street

32:20 Stay Weird, Keep Building

Special thanks to Jane Seabrook and the Lone Palm team for permitting us to film the first ever video podcast at their storied bar.

–

Koen Bok & Jorn van Dijk: Framer Reloaded

First of Kind, S2:E4

Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3: room3nyc.com

First of Kind is powered by our sponsors:

Framer — framer.com

Cursor — cursor.com

Vercel — vercel.com

Profound — tryprofound.com

Website: www.firstofkind.com

𝕏: x.com/firstofkind

Threads: threads.com/firstofkind_

Instagram: instagram.com/firstofkind_

Hashtag: #FirstofKind