First of Kind

What do Anthropic, Facebook, Pinterest and Stripe all have in common?

Everett Katigbak has played a foundational creative role at some of the most iconic brands in technology. His film work documents the stories of seminal figures who have shaped culture, such as his documentary projects on Stewart Brand and Luis Valdez.

In this in-depth conversation at his beautiful San Francisco home, Everett describes the “golden thread” that weaves through his non-linear career path, the importance of humanizing infrastructure, and why he believes your side hustle is actually your “true form.” 

As of this recording, Everett has set out on his own to develop an independent creative practice. After years behind the camera, tech’s “brand guru” steps out in front of it.

00:00 Intro: “Your side hustle is your true form”

03:01 Making Facebook Feel Human

05:04 Getting Hired Because You Don’t Fit

08:10 Why San Francisco? Place Before Job

11:33 Analog Research Lab origins & mantras

13:35 Propaganda, Self-Talk, and Shaping Company Culture

16:32 Designing for Engagement vs. Meaning

17:18 Living in Contradictions: Anachronist Meets Futurist

19:27 How to Pick the Right Company (A Nose for What’s Next)

21:03 Expansion vs. Mastery: A Different Kind of Career Path

24:00 Going Independent

26:24 Inside Cursor as a “Cultural Sleuth”

28:49 Stories of Unseen Figures: Luis Valdez, Stewart Brand

32:00 Closing: Advice for Future Pioneers

S2:E6 Everett Katigbak: Indie Streak

Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3: room3nyc.com @room3nyc

First of Kind is powered by our sponsors:

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What if you designed a new class of vehicle from the ground up?

Joseph Cohen first cofounded Universe, the mobile-first website builder, before turning his attention to the physical world. He and his brother Eddie Cohen now run Infinite Machine, an automotive company reimagining how people move through cities — not with cars, but with something entirely new, starting with the electric motorcycle.

We met at Infinite Machine's headquarters in New York City, where Joe walked us through the design philosophy behind “non-car” vehicles, why electrification unlocks radical new form factors, and what it means to bet on autonomous people over autonomous cars.

00:00 – Intro: Color Outside the Lines

01:50 – A New Symbol for Freedom

05:52 – The Stolen Vespa

09:49 – The P1 vs. The Vision Pro

12:52 – Hard Modernism

17:26 – Painters Who Paint Factories

19:42 – Ten Times the Trips

23:33 – The Vespa Has No Engine

27:51 – Ask New Questions

32:00 – The Company as Medium

34:11 – Outro: What Memories Will You Make

S2:E5 Joseph Cohen: Infinite Ride

Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3: room3nyc.com @room3nyc

First of Kind is powered by our sponsors:

Framer — framer.com

Cursor — cursor.com

Vercel — vercel.com

Profound — tryprofound.com

Website: firstofkind.com

YouTube: youtube.com/@firstofkind

𝕏: x.com/firstofkind

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Hashtag: #FirstofKind

When do you know to pivot or surrender?

Koen Bok and Jorn van Dijk co-founded Framer, the web design platform that helps designers ship beautiful sites fast. 55% of YC companies run on it. Designers love it. But Framer almost didn't make it.

What began as a high-fidelity prototyping tool born inside Facebook's design culture became—after a near-death pivot five years in—the premier site builder for designers who ship. 

Over drinks at the Lone Palm in San Francisco, Koen and Jorn recall what it took to step back from the brink of oblivion and chart a new course — for themselves and the field of digital design.

00:00 Intro: Lone Palm, Last Call

01:34 What is Framer Today?

02:39 Pick a Problem You Love

06:14 Three Interactions to Fifty

08:20 Rough Riding / Why VC is Good

11:38 Three Options Left

14:31 The Pivotal Lunch

20:46 Act III: Solving the Walkie-Talkie

29:08 Artistry meets Wall Street

32:20 Stay Weird, Keep Building

Special thanks to Jane Seabrook and the Lone Palm team for permitting us to film the first ever video podcast at their storied bar.

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Koen Bok & Jorn van Dijk: Framer Reloaded

First of Kind, S2:E4

Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3: room3nyc.com

First of Kind is powered by our sponsors:

Framer — framer.com

Cursor — cursor.com

Vercel — vercel.com

Profound — tryprofound.com

Website: www.firstofkind.com

𝕏: x.com/firstofkind

Threads: threads.com/firstofkind_

Instagram: instagram.com/firstofkind_

Hashtag: #FirstofKind

What can flying teach us about software design?

Katie Dill has built world-class teams at three iconic companies—Stripe, Lyft and Airbnb—proving that thoughtful design can shape quality at industrial scale.

In this conversation with Soleio, Katie describes her winding path into technology and how fields as disparate as architecture and aviation shape her approach to leading design at Stripe.

00:00 – Intro: It's All About Mileage

02:18 – What Flying Teaches You About Design

07:01 – From History to Design School

10:30 – The IDEO Moment

18:01 – Saying Yes to the Scary Thing

19:46 – The Chair Pullback

21:16 – The Gray Room at Airbnb

25:47 – Breaking Down the Ivory Tower

30:05 – Put In the Mileage

33:35 – Beauty Builds Trust

36:53 – Steam Gauges and Simple Systems

38:53 – The Best Checkout in the World

Katie Dill: Quality Control

First of Kind, S2:E3

Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3: room3nyc.com

First of Kind is powered by our sponsors:

Framer — framer.com

Cursor — cursor.com

Vercel — vercel.com

Profound — tryprofound.com

Website: www.firstofkind.com

𝕏: x.com/firstofkind_

Threads: threads.com/firstofkind_

Instagram: instagram.com/firstofkind_

Hashtag: #FirstofKind

What is the future of design in a post-AI world?

Ryo Lu pioneered new patterns for collaboration as founding designer at Notion. He now leads design at Cursor, shaping how software gets built through a fusion of design and engineering. 

In this conversation with Soleio, he explains Cursor's approach to design and how the product will evolve to empower designers who build.

00:00 – Intro: The future of design
01:49 – What is design at Cursor?
02:50 – How the team actually works
04:46 – Generalists, Self-Starters, Ex-Founders
07:34 – Building Cursor inside Cursor
10:45 – The next level: Agents & Abstraction
13:48 – Pattern language
18:24 – A lingua franca for builders
20:34 – Baby Cursor
23:45 – The new shape of designer
26:10 – Does AI distribute or concentrate power?
29:43 – Why Cursor is the tool you should learn
30:54 – A new design philosophy
32:36 – Where the path leads

S2:E2 Ryo Lu: The Way
Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3 (www.room3nyc.com)

First of Kind is powered by our sponsors:
Framer: framer.com
Cursor: cursor.com
Vercel: vercel.com
Profound: tryprofound.com

Website: www.firstofkind.com
Threads: threads.com/firstofkind_
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Hashtag: #FirstofKind

Why did Joe Gebbia go to Washington? I spoke with America’s first-ever Chief Design Officer last fall to find out. We met on the White House grounds to discuss his newly created role, the formation of @ndstudio, and how Joe plans to weave design into the frabic of U.S. federal government.

00:00 - Intro / Eisenhower Exec Office Bldg
01:34 - From Airbnb to Washington
04:39 - The Federal Retirement Problem
06:31 - The Mine in the Mountain
08:29 - Do Things That Don’t Scale
11:35 - The Julie Prototype
14:20 - Down to 60 Seconds
16:33 - Consumer-Grade Government
18:31 - Nixon’s Federal Beautification
20:22 - The National Design Studio
24:24 - Trust Through Design
27:43 - Building the Dream Team
31:22 - The Silicon Valley Coalition
35:33 - A Golden Age of Design

Special thanks to Joe Gebbia and his team for making this conversation possible.

S2:E1 Joe Gebbia, Designer-in-Chief
Hosted by Soleio: x.com/soleio
Produced by Room 3: room3nyc.com

First of Kind is powered by our sponsors:
Framer: framer.com
Cursor: cursor.com
Vercel: vercel.com
Profound: tryprofound.com

Website: www.firstofkind.com
Threads: threads.com/firstofkind_
Instagram: instagram.com/firstofkind_
X: x.com/firstofkind_
Hashtag: #FirstofKind

Explore our Conversational Show Notes, brought to you by Granola.ai — https://notes.granola.ai/f/ee3b12a6-82bb-4662-940a-d4270871994a 

Thank you to our partners!

Cursor — https://cursor.com
Framer — https://framer.com
Granola — https://granola.ai
Linear — https://linear.app
Perplexity — https://perplexity.com

Explore our Conversational Show Notes, brought to you by Granola.ai — https://notes.granola.ai/f/ee3b12a6-82bb-4662-940a-d4270871994a 

Thank you to our partners!

Cursor — https://cursor.com
Framer — https://framer.com
Granola — https://granola.ai
Linear — https://linear.app
Perplexity — https://perplexity.com

Explore our Conversational Show Notes, brought to you by Granola.ai — https://notes.granola.ai/f/ee3b12a6-82bb-4662-940a-d4270871994a 

Thank you to our partners!

Cursor — https://cursor.com
Framer — https://framer.com
Granola — https://granola.ai
Linear — https://linear.app
Perplexity — https://perplexity.com

Explore our Conversational Show Notes, brought to you by Granola.ai — https://notes.granola.ai/f/ee3b12a6-82bb-4662-940a-d4270871994a 

Thank you to our partners!

Cursor — https://cursor.com
Framer — https://framer.com
Granola — https://granola.ai
Linear — https://linear.app
Perplexity — https://perplexity.com