Kutupalong Podcast

Veteran Rohingya politician Abu Tahay gives his perspective on the 2020 Myanmar elections. Presented by Sumaiya. Interviewed by Shafiur Rahman.

Abu Taher or Tahay is a long established Rohingya politician. He is the Chairman of the Union National Development Party (UNDP). UNDP has not been granted registration by the Myanmar authorities. UNDP applied for registration in 2013 and was finally rejected by the government in 2019. Abu Tahay was detained in 1989 for six months. In 2010, despite being elected at the polls, the government prevented Tahay from becoming an MP.

Questions:

Aung San Suu Kyi’s party has won this election. Yet in the last few years  there have been some catastrophes: the Rakhine “clearance operations”, conflict in various states, harassment of human rights workers and journalists. Do you think the Burmese public care about these issues? 

Aung San Suu Kyi has had a very humiliating 3 years in the international arena. Do you think this  victory will help her aim of gaining international legitimacy? Or is her real aim domestic legitimacy and supremacy? 

Were the elections Free and Fair in Rakhine state? Have people been able to vote? Arakan National Party and Arakan Front Party - how do they view Rohingya people? 

Aung San Suu Kyi will probably emerge stronger - so do you think she will make any of the changes the Kofi Annan commission recommended? Do you think her policies will change in terms of the Rohingya in IDP camps or the repatriation of Rohingya from the camps? What positive changes do you think will come from her?

What happened to Rohingya candidates in this election? What about other muslim candidates? Did other muslims face discrimination?

Do you think Aung San Suu Kyi is going to go from being a democracy icon to a dictator trying to hold together a sham democracy?

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How a former Myanmar military man, who converted to Islam & married a Rohingya woman, escaped from Tula Toli. Podcast with Mabia, his widow

The carnage that took place in Tula Toli in Myanmar on 30 August 2017 has produced some remarkable stories of survival and defiance. One of these is the story of Nojumu Islam. Born in Yangon, he was a military man and lived with his Rakhine wife in Wut Kyein near Tula Toli . He converted to Islam out of his own volition in 2002, and two years later, whilst at a Muslim gathering in Tula Toli was introduced to Mabia, a Rohingya woman, by a moulvi.

His story is remarkable not just because he was a Bamar who converted to Islam and married a Rohingya woman but also because of the attempt to reconvert him to Buddhism by the security forces operating in Tula Toli. His escape from their clutches is also nothing short of epic.

During the clearance operations launched by the Tatmadaw (Myanmar military) in August 2017, Tula Toli was razed to the ground and hundreds of Rohingya were massacred. Significantly, even the Burmese government now accepts that there were very high numbers of deaths in Tula Toli. Three days before the massacre, Nojumu was lifted by members of the BGP ( Burmese border force) from his home and forcibly taken to the BGP barracks near the Rakhine hamlet of Tula Toli. Nojumu himself explained, when he was still alive, that the reason for apprehending him was an attempt to get him to turn his back on Islam and return to his original faith, Buddhism. It was clear that the BGP knew what was about to befall Tula Toli, and so they snatched him for his protection and for his reconversion.

According to Mabia, Nojumu was incarcerated for one month and three days. The story of their reunion in the refugee camps of Bangladesh, after one month and nine days, is extraordinary. Nojumu escaped his captivity when his guards left him to attend the Dool Poornimar religious festival. He crossed the Purma river, near Dokhin Fara ( the hamlet closest to the BGP barracks) and made for an Ahmaddiya Madrassah in Sadullah char (picture below)

Myanmar border guards, the BGP, spotted him. They called out to him and when he failed to stop they fired six rounds. Nojumu was unhurt and managed to make his way to Maungdaw town. His intention was to withdraw some money as he received a military pension.

Whilst in Maungdaw he unexpectedly met his adult son ( from his first wife). Nojumu informed him that his objective was to go to Yangon. The son asked Nojumu if he needed money and then offered to go and get some. Whilst his son was gone, Nojumu had some concerns. He feared that he would be taken back to the BGP barracks. He did not wait for his son’s return and instead headed for the border. He crossed the channel into Bangladesh at Shaporir Deep, the obvious crossing point from Maungdaw.

Once in Bangladesh, the BGB ( Border Guard Bangladesh) apprehended him. His appearance suggested to them that he was Rakhine, and they wondered why he was crossing into Bangladesh. In detention, he was able to phone Mabia’s sister in Malaysia. He convinced the BGB that he was married to a Rohingya woman and that she was in the camps with their children having escaped mass slaugther. And that he could prove his connection to her if they allowed him to make a phone call. Fortunately they permitted him to do this using a BGB mobile phone. Nojumu had memorised the sister’s number and got through to her. She in turn alerted Mabia of Nojumu’s presence in Bangladesh. Mabia immediately went to Teknaf and got him released.

He died on 11 August 2018 with tuberculosis. His time in Bangladesh was not a happy one, and he suffered from various ailments including an injury he sustained in captivity. In this podcast, Mabia, the woman he was married to for 16 years, remembers her husband.

Interview: Noor Hossain Production: Mojaffor Ahmed Text: Shafiur Rahman

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On 22nd August of 2019, following a failed repatriation attempt, Foreign Minister A K Momen told journalists that he will seek to ‘reduce the comfort of the Rohingya so that they agree to return.” Within two weeks of his statement, Bangladesh authorities moved to ban mobile phone access in the camps, including the stoppage of sim card sales and internet services. Whilst a ban has existed since 2017, it was never enforced. Zakir Hossain Khan, the spokesman for the Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission, gave the telecoms companies 7 days to comply. In summary, the Bangladeshi government cut access to 3G and 4G cellular services in the refugee camp areas of Teknaf and Ukhia. 

Refugee Views

In this episode, we speak to a Rohingya refugee from Kutupalong camp as well as a refugee from the No Man’s Land settlement. They describe how the harshness of refugee life has been compounded by being unable to communicate with family and loved ones. 

The Coronavirus pandemic has created a worldwide emergency. At the time of writing, Bangladesh has reported over 50 infections and 6 deaths due to the virus. On 2 April, 50 organisations wrote to Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina of Bangladesh requesting the restoration of internet services. 

 In this regard we spoke to Dr Ambia Perveen, a Rohingya physician based in Germany, about the pressing need for internet access during the coronavirus crisis. She argues that: 

“Health is a human right. Awareness and information is vital now. And for that you need the internet. This is critically important not only for Rohingya but for their host community neighbours also.”

We also asked Nay San Lwin, a Rohingya activist, also based in Germany . He said that: 

 “Restoration of the internet would provide assurance for everyone. It will promote compliance with health strategies that the camp authorities might want to implement and importantly prevent panic.”

Aid Community Views

The Inter Sector Coordination Group, the central coordination body for humanitarian agencies serving Rohingya refugees in Cox’s Bazar, has repeatedly stated in its sitreps that “UN agencies, Government representatives, NGOs and the entire ecosystem supporting refugees from within and around the camps struggles with basic communication and security telecommunications services.” They have additionally noted that “Rohingya women continue to report facing additional risks, threats and barriers due to lack of access to mobile network, having SIM cards confiscated ..”

In this context, we hear from an NGO worker regarding the disruptive impact of the ban on her daily work. Additionally, we asked UNHCR for a comment. Louise Donovan told Kutupalong Podcast that 

Mobile and internet technology has been an important way for refugees to communicate with family and friends, as well as with humanitarian agencies regarding protection issues. Lack of connectivity also affects the ability of humanitarian agencies to disseminate information to refugees, get in touch with those who need help and to coordinate our own response in emergency situations. We have raised these challenges with the Government and understand that they are reviewing the situation.

Finally we asked George McLeod whether IOM had any comment on this matter. He sent us a short WhatsApp message. 

“I was given to understand the 3g blockage would be lifted , but saw when I visited the camps that it is still in place.”

Presenter: Mirza Galib Reporter: Nur Hossain

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19 March 2020

Rohingya activist Nay San Lwin talks about the coronavirus pandemic (in Rohingya language). He sends a message to his fellow Rohingya in Myanmar, and to the refugees in Bangladesh and Malaysia. He highlights the complete absence of information around Covid-19 in Myanmar, and requests Rohingya to carefully heed the advice given by humanitarian organisations and also by Rohingya doctors based in Europe.

Salam, I am Nay San Lwin. I am speaking to you from Germany. There is a new disease in this world. It is called coronavirus or covid19. Many thousands of people have died. To all my Rohingya brothers and sisters, you need to be very alert about this disease. It causes a very high fever, coughing and difficulty in breathing.

Many people will not suffer much. Their symptoms will be mild. But older people are very vulnerable. You all need to be careful. This disease can be passed from one person to another very quickly. It doesn’t matter if you are young or old. This disease is very easy to transmit from one person to another.

If you are in Burma or Bangladesh Or Malaysia, please listen carefully.

Firstly, To all my brothers and sisters in Myanmar, i need to tell you that the Myanmar government is not giving you any information. Aung San Suu Kyi and her ministers have not been open. No one knows what is happening in Myanmar. We do not know if the virus is present or not. It is important for you to listen to the advice in Rohingya language which Rohingya doctors and others have made available on the internet. Be very alert about the symptoms and please follow the advice that has been given.

If you are in Bangladesh, then please listen to the Rohingya organisations and NGOs who are informing people about this disease. Please follow the instructions given to you about how to keep yourself safe. Please inform the clinic nearest to you if you think you are suffering coronavirus. The Bangladesh authorities have taken some steps to help you.

Finally, I want to speak to those of you who are in Malaysia. Please seek medical help if you are suffering any of the symptoms. It is very important for your family, for the Rohingya community and for Malaysians too. Do not keep quiet. That would be dangerous for you and those around you.

This is a difficult time for all Rohingya and for all the world. I pray for your good health.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rohingya.substack.com

Podcast with Dr Hla Kyaw Khubybe

News of the coronavirus or COVID-19 has dominated headlines throughout the world. Yet in the Rohingya refugee camps of Bangladesh, with internet access barred because of a recent government order, knowledge and information about the virus is very limited. The camps are located in south eastern Bangladesh, a district with fragile public health care facilities. The camps are also overcrowded, and lack proper sanitation and decent healthcare facilities. COVID-19 therefore represents a real risk to the refugee population. 

There are as yet no confirmed cases of COVID-19 within Bangladesh. The Bangladesh government has taken certain measures including setting up coronavirus sample collection points in all 64 districts and 29 ports of entry. Additionally, Bangladesh is not issuing “on arrival” visas to Chinese nationals. However it has not banned entry to foreign nationals who have visited China. Bangladesh also, to its credit, accepted the return of 325 Bangladeshi workers from Wuhan, the Chinese city at the epicentre of the disease. 

According to this Arab News report “Hundreds of health workers in the camp area are receiving training to improve disease outbreak detection and prevention. Isolation wards have also been set up.”

We talked to Dr Hla Kyaw Khubybe, a Netherlands-based Rohingya physician and Chair of the European Rohingya Council. We asked him what the disease is and what refugees in the camps should know and try to do about it. 

Read more HERE

Mirza Galib is the presenter. Dr Hla Khubybe was interviewed by Shafiur Rahman. This podcast will be available on Youtube and various Rohingya whatsapp groups. 

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In this podcast, Kutupalong Podcast presenter Mirza Galib, presents a commentary on International Mother Language Day, today on 21st February. He deals with the importance of this day for the creation of Bangladesh, and then he eloquently relates the significance of this day for the Rohingya minority in Myanmar.

Listeners should note that these are his personal views.

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Rohingya activists and leaders  attended the hearings at The International Court of Justice, the United Nations' highest court, in  the genocide case brought by The Gambia against Myanmar in December 2019 and January 2020. In this podcast, various prominent Rohingya activists give their comments on matters arising from the hearings and discuss their thoughts  about future outcomes. Please go to http://medium.com/kutupalong for fuller summary.

Speakers in Alphabetical Order

Tun Khin, Nay San Lwin, Ibrahim Mohamed, Dr Ambia Perveen, Advocate Razia Sultana, Dr Wakar Uddin, This podcast is in Rohingya language.  15 February 2020. Interviewed by Shafiur Rahman. Program presented by Mirza Galib. 

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ON 26th January 2020, violence broke out between Christian and Muslim Rohingya in Kutupalong Refugee camp, Bangladesh. We previously discussed the issue in two separate episodes. In this episode, we talk to Nay San Lwin, a prominent Muslim Rohingya activist. The interview is conducted in Rohingya language. A summary of what Nay San Lwin said is presented below. (These are not verbatim quotes but a summary (seen and approved by Nay San Lwin).

Q. The Christian Rohingya say that what happened on 26th January is the worst incident between Christian and Muslim Rohingya. They also say that persecution against them is long standing. What do you say?

Yes we have never experienced this within our community and we are sad that this has happened. We are about 3 million people around the world. In the last two years we have begun to notice the Christian minority existing within our community. Majority of the Rohingya are Muslims, and for some this fact has come as a shock. So they really don’t know how to handle the matter. Instead of embracing this minority as their own brothers & sisters, they have treated the Christian Rohingya as outsiders.

There are accusations from both sides. I need to stress to everyone that we should embrace each other as brothers and sisters regardless of our religion. What has happened is behind us. Now is the time for reconciliation and tojoin together in the fight to get back our rights in our homeland, Myanmar. I won’t support any violence against each other. At the end of the day, we are all of Rohingya ethnicity. We may have differences in our beliefs but under the skin our blood is the same.

Q. There was a lot of violence that night. Do you agree that this damages all Rohingya? Do you condemn what happened?

Yes I agree. No one has the right to destroy property. Destroying the Church is unacceptable. I condemn all violence. We are taking refuge in Bangladesh. If anyone is attacked, the community should inform law enforcement to take action rather than responding violently. It is unacceptable.

Q. The Christian Rohingya are saying that behind this event is the hand of ARSA. What do you say?

Bangladesh government has repeatedly said that ARSA, Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army, does not exist in Bangladesh. The Bangladesh police have said that the violence was between the two communities, and denied the involvement of ARSA. I can’t say whether ARSA was involved as I don’t know who the ARSA members are in the camps. But what I have learned is there are a lot of people who project themselves as ARSA in order to scare people. Regardless of who was involved in this incident, the victims should identify each and every perpetrator and inform the concerned authorities. They should investigate properly and take the necessary action. We should be concerned about the perpetrators. They must be brought to justice regardless of their organisational connections or identity.

Q. What about Shukkur, the young muslim man. Is he innocent or guilty?

Shukkur was found inside a Christian Rohingya home. We know this from a video. Police found him lying inside a Christian person’s home near the church. He was injured. He claimed to have been abducted and beaten. Shukkur said that the reason for his abduction and beating was because he refused to convert to Christianity, and additionally he told the wider community that the Christians had tried to convert him. This, Shukkur claims, is the reason he was targeted. The Christians say that he is a member of ARSA. He is part of a mindset that wants to get rid of all Christians. It was he who attacked them, and they even say say that Shukkur was probably injured by the stones being thrown by the other Muslim attackers. So you see, it is a totally confused picture. What we can say is that this kind of violence that landed all these people in hospital is unacceptable. It should not be happening. The destruction of homes and the church are unforgivable acts. Attacks on each other is unacceptable and must stop.

Q. Clearly there is no trust between Christian Rohingya and Muslim Rohingya. What are you going to do about this?

We have no experience regarding how to handle this issue. Although everyone wants religious freedom, it seems some of us do not know how to respect other people’s rights. People don’t like if they see their fellow religionists convert to some other religion. Once someone has converted they are seen as outsiders. This is how we have lost trust in each other.

We are now living on Bangladesh soil. Although Bangladesh is a Muslim majority country, it has Hindu, Christian and Buddhist minorities, and they are equally treated. We were allowed to take refuge in Bangladesh not because we were Muslims but because we are humans. Bangladesh has shown its humanity for fellow human beings. If Buddhists were persecuted and were forced to flee, I am sure Bangladesh would allow them to enter. So we have to deal with each other as we would other human beings and not let religion define how we behave towards each other. We can’t deny each other’s existence and rights.

In conclusion I would like to request all our people — embrace each other. Please don’t fight. If there are arguments, please engage in dialogue with each other. If anyone is violent, please inform the authorities. Do not respond with violence. Seek peace and respect each other. We are one family. We can solve our problems by talking to each other. Everyone has this responsibility.

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Podcast with Simon, Christian Rohingya community leader

On 26 January 2020, violence broke out between Christian and Muslim Rohingya in Kutupalong camp, Cox’s Bazar, Bangladesh. Our first podcast (in English) on this issue is available at this link:

Simon’s central message is that the Shukkur incident is the culmination of persistent targeting of the Christian community over the years. Christians are demonised as being fixated on proselytising and converting Muslims for the sake of money. Simon bemoans the complicit role of Muslim religious preachers in spinning this narrative. Additionally, Simon claims that Rohingya leaders in the diaspora, ARSA (Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army) and also unnamed Turkish organisations are all involved in the ostracisation of the Christian community. He singles out ARSA as having a particularly pernicious role, and claims that Shukkur is a member of ARSA.

Simon argues that Shukkur and his friends could have brought the weight of the Bangladeshi law and order authorities down on the Christians, if indeed they were responsible for beating him. He does not deny that Sukkur may have been beaten by the Christians. However, Simon finds it unsurprising that they chose to attack the entire community in that block. In doing so, according to Simon, they assaulted women, hospitalised over 12 people including children and destroyed the church. In addition, separately from the recorded interview, Simon claims that 4 Christians remain missing — a Mr. Taher 55, his wife Mrs Kurshida 32, his daughter Mizan 14, and his other daughter, Mariam 8 years old.

We recorded Simon’s interview using WhatsApp voice messaging. We tried to speak to members of the Christian community in the camps but it was not possible because of the heavy presence of police. Mirza Galib presents.

Above: Church building from inside. Below : A home belonging to a Christian Rohingya. Pics courtesy of Simon.

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On the night of 26th January, violence broke out in Bangladesh’s Kutupalong refugee camp between christian and muslim Rohingya. As a result, several christians required immediate hospitalisation, and the entire community within Kutupalong have been removed to the transit camp. Tensions have long simmered between the small christian community (approximately 1500 strong), and their muslim compatriots. Occasionally these tensions spill over into violence. According to christians, this episode is the worst in the history of Rohingya christian/muslim relations. 

We hear first from Shukkur, the young muslim Rohingya at the centre of this violent episode. We then ask Nay San Lwin to provide some context to the whole matter. This podcast will be followed by another featuring Simon, a christian Rohingya residing in India. Unseen footage will also be included in that post. 

22 homes belonging to christians were damaged. A dozen christians ended up in hospital.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rohingya.substack.com