Hunting wildlife has been practiced by Indigenous tribes for hundreds of years in this region and many of those traditions are still practiced today. Although many may see hunting as a sport, it is also regarded as spiritually and culturally significant for tribes and pueblos such as Zuni. In this episode, Lakin Epaloose discusses his hunting experience throughout the years and the traditional-ecological knowledge he’s picked up along the way. Take a listen to this episode and we hope you all enjoy!

[Lakin Epaloose]

I would say that; understand that a lot of the traditional practices that have taken place in this entire landscape, which we call home, those practices are still passed down today. So we still continue to hold the cultural values that have kept our families together and families that support one another. So if you guys have family, then try to connect with them in different ways.

Connect with the people you have close with you.

[Meranden]

Welcome back to Grand Canyon Speaks. I'm Meranden

[Ranger Dan]

And this is Ranger Dan.

[Meranden]

Throughout season three, we've been highlighting sports and athletes from the 11 tribes that call the Grand Canyon home. However, this one is a bit different.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah, this time I spoke with Lakin, who is an intern here at the Park, and we covered topics revolving around hunting as a sport, but more importantly, hunting as a tradition.

[Meranden]

Hunting has both evolved and sustained its cultural significance for many of our tribes throughout the region, and Lakin shares his perspective as a Zuni hunter.

[Ranger Dan]

We hope you enjoy this episode and stay tuned for more of season three.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Good evening, everyone.

My name is Lakin Epaloose. Ho’ Lakin Epaloose le'shinna. Ho’ Dowa:kwe deyan Suski:kwe a:wan cha’le. So Dowa:kwe is my clan, my first clan, and Suski:kwe is my second clan.

Dowa:kwe is Corn clan and Suski:kwe is Coyote clan. I'm from the Zuni Pueblo, and that is located four hours east on the road, or 252 miles going on this Highway 89 to I-40, Gallup you head south from Gallup you'll get there yeah I'm from Zuni.

Our Pueblo is pretty secluded and our reservation is located in this valley that sits between a mesa the mountains out east called Zuni mountains and some desert hills out to the west.

I've been an intern here for about it's about a year now but my previous term was served under Arizona Conservation Corps and I'm an intern under ALCC which is this right here Ancestral Lands Conservation Corps. Because of the work we did we were able to get extended for another year so we'll be here until January

[Ranger Dan]

So I want to also emphasize the work that Lakin is talking about is normally he's on this side of the microphone where I am, actually doing the interviews with other people here so Lakin and Meranden are in charge of the Grand Canyon Speaks podcast.

They've selected people that we do interview throughout the year here and our emphasis this year is actually focusing on sports and why they're so important to Indigenous communities that call the canyon home and hunting can kind of fit into these categories to a certain extent for outdoor recreation.

But yeah this is I think this is the first time you've been on the interviewee side of a program here but yeah I'm super excited because I've gotten to know Lakin for over a year now since he started in last August.

Yeah we've had a lot of conversations about a lot of different subjects and I think we've been able to identify that hunting is a really important topic especially for you because you go out a lot when you're back home and it's coming to the close of antelope season or pronghorn season too which I know you're hoping to bag one too.

So I want to kind of get started with your history with hunting and kind of when did you when were you first exposed to hunting actually out at Zuni?

[Lakin Epaloose]

So I would say I started hunting around like age like five or six.

I remember I would go like out with my dad and I remember the first time he let me shoot a gun which was a 22 rifle and yeah ever since like I've been hunting at that age I feel like I've picked up a lot of knowledge and skill because of my dad.

Because he would be the main one I would go hunting with and then later on I would go hunting with my friends and even I would have the opportunity to teach my friends how to hunt and hunt specific things like birds or big game or small game even.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah so is this like would you say it's kind of a generational thing where like you're learning from your dad, did he learn from his dad on how to go hunting and learn the landscape as well?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah he would tell me that he used to go hunting with his dad, specifically deer hunting and so that was one big game that they focused on and then later on he would learn how to hunt turkey.

And so after that he taught me how to hunt turkeys which is like I would say it's similar to hunting elk because when you're like hunting turkeys, especially in the spring, you're locating where they're roosting and with elk too, you're locating where they're bugling and where their herds are moving through.

So that's pretty much the same approach you take.

[Ranger Dan]

Okay.

How many different seasons do you have to go hunting? Because I know you're into bow hunting but also rifle as well but that takes you into and just long gun I should say and it takes you into a bunch of different animals that you do hunt throughout the year.

So how many times how many different animals do you think you go after a year.

[Lakin Epaloose]

You can go all year round but there's specific times during the year where hunting isn't allowed like during our fasting which occurs in the winter and during the summer. One of the purposes for fasting is to preserve our resources and to give the Earth a time to rest and the wildlife time to rest as well.

There's like specific rules when it comes to hunting birds in the summer.

So just to let y'all know and to let everyone know listening; Zuni tribal members are allowed to have feathers and hunt specific birds but during the summertime there are specific birds that come into this region, and they're known as migratory birds.

In Zuni they're also known as summer birds and the feathers and the birds themselves just represent the monsoon rains that start to come through the region during this time of year specifically like July through late August and during this time year those same birds come up from Central America and Mexico.

And it's understood that they travel with the rain so that's why they're important culturally because we rely on the rain for our dry land agricultural practices.

So we associate that with the wildlife that inhabit this region during this time year.

[Ranger Dan]

And so are you also saying that like Zuni has the ability to take different birds that other people don't have the ability to?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah, like I said majority of the birds that are used for cultural purposes are able to be harvested by tribal members.

There are other birds that you can't kill legally like eagles. You keep them as pets and that's the traditional way of taking their feathers. A long time ago they would hike up to cliff sides or into the mountains to look for the eagle nests and they'll find the egg and they'll take that back home and they'll take care of the eagle until it reaches its old age.

So the eagle becomes their pet. Same thing with the parrots and macaws. Before we reached Zuni during our migration, we used to inhabit different regions or locations in the southwest that are regarded as ancestral sites and in these ancestral sites we were connected with other Puebloan civilizations and cultures that ended up moving down into Mexico.

So we sustained those connections and one of those examples is we would trade feathers and the birds themselves the macaws and so our people took care of macaws and still do to this day.

And so if you're ever in Zuni, you might meet a family who has a macaw as their pet or an eagle.

So that's pretty cool to know but to go back to your question how many seasons there are, there's winter; so usually during the wintertime you'll find a lot of the birds like Clark's nutcrackers which are located in the Park at Grandview.

They're pretty cool when you get up to them they're these in Zuni they're called lohaya bo’ya because their head is gray and their feathers on their wings are black and they have a little white patch on their shoulder.

So there's that and there's other birds like flickers, woodpeckers, and bluebirds there's mountain bluebirds and the western bluebirds which kind of have a different color so I'll use you two as an example.

The feathers on the mountain bluebird are like that color. Western [bluebird] is more like that blue so that's pretty cool to know and I'm glad you guys wore those shirts.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah I think they planned it.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah. It was a planned thing.

Springtime is usually turkey hunting season, so turkeys will breed in the springtime and they will usually be like toms which are the mature turkeys or the gobblers.

They'll be with their hens and so you can use different types of turkey calls to lure the toms in and whenever you go turkey hunting you can also go bird hunting.

Summertime is like I mentioned a time to hunt the migratory birds like the Orioles or in Zuni they're called Ono’łikya and the different types of buntings like those lazuli buntings, indigo buntings, the grosbeaks and they're all very colorful birds the tanagers too western and summer.

Those are yellow red and the summer tanagers are all red. So yeah there's a bunch of different cool birds and each of those birds have unique Zuni names and also like one vision I have is to create a book that has all these names of the birds identified in Zuni and in English and also the ornithological terminology for each of the species.

So I feel like that information is important because it not only is significant in identifying birds but also the words themselves carry knowledge. For example there's this one bird that it's kind of leaving now because it's getting to the end of the summer but you might hear it every now and then it's called a violet-green swallow and on their back they're a very vibrant green and on their lower part of their back there it's a very vibrant purple

And in Zuni they're called Awisho: Seto which means “algae back” and the reason why algae is important is because it resembles places where bodies of water are located for example springs and ponds and those springs and ponds are usually used as places of offering or collecting water for cultural purposes.

So it's like you can connect the identification of a bird with specific locations that contain water or can contain other elements of nature that are culturally important.

[Ranger Dan]

And these birds also hang around these areas too they're skimming the water catching the insects that are off of them and so it's all connected into one location with this identification of the bird itself.

So yeah you're talking about knowledge. From one bird we just got that much knowledge.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yes exactly yeah and I'll go to the next season. That's fall season.

That can kind of be my favorite because that's when big game hunting usually opens. So like Dan mentioned earlier, I have a antelope archery tag to fill.

And for those who know about hunting and archery hunting antelope or pronghorn antelope is one of the hardest animals to hunt because not only do they have a good sense of smell like elk and deer but they're the fastest land mammal in North America and they have the eyesight almost as good as a hawk.

So they can see you I believe up to five miles away.

So usually with deer you do this technique called spot and stalk. You'll find a place where they're going to bed or rest in the shade and then you'll kind of creep around to make your way closer to it based on the wind direction.

So you go against the wind so that it won't catch your scent but the thing with pronghorn is they're usually located in vast open areas.

The wind can be tricky in those open areas and they have good eyesight and they bed down kind of like how cats do. If you guys know how cats loaf, that's how pronghorn kind of bed down and also they'll spot you if you walk standing straight up they'll spot you easily so you're out of luck if you mess up.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah

[Lakin Epaloose]

And they'll take off

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah it's a pretty quick animal.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah so usually when you see people hunting them with bows and with a bow you can get up to I would say anywhere between 30 and 60 yards is a good shot.

So that's about from here to Eliana back there that's about 30 yards or even like 25.

60 yards is about that bush halfway down that way so you kind of have that room to work with.

But yeah I do like hunting pronghorn it's a very challenging hunt but when you fulfill it that satisfaction is there. Deer hunting is also my favorite because they're kind of in between elk and antelope they're pretty tough to hunt but when you do get it, it’s a nice feeling.

And elk is also a fall animal that is hunted. It's funny because they're kind of stupid like I mean they're big and they'll come into pretty much anything especially if they're in the rut.

Like I can do an elk call right now I'll do one. That's how a cow elk sounds.

So like if you do that in the morning they'll bugle easily and that's during the fall time during their rut.

[Ranger Dan]

We got tp do that outside the apartment I want to hear this in the morning.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah yeah that's one of my favorite animals to hunt because when they are coming in you can hear them crashing through the trees and it gets your adrenaline going especially in the morning after you wake up.

So that's one cool thing to wake up to is the crashing and the bugling and they're very loud especially if you're in their area where there's like five bulls fighting that's one cool experience.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah yeah that's cool.

[Lakin Epaloose]

But if you do get one I'll say like when you're field dressing an elk it's it smells.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah like it just smells like elk pee.

[Ranger Dan]

That's nice. Yeah you got to be ready for that to get dirty when you're hunting especially dressing it out.

Yeah you've touched upon a couple different topics along the way describing the seasons and what's available for hunting and one of the things that I would like to kind of take it back to you is I mean you're talking about information that's one of it's a huge thing within Zuni culture where you can pick one thing and there's so much to talk about it because that one object carries so much information.

But if we start thinking about it, this is all passed down knowledge.

This is traditional knowledge so what is the the history of Zuni and hunting altogether and like how is it important within the culture?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah so hunting from the Zuni perspective isn't just harvesting game for the meat and for the parts but it also has a spiritual aspect.

So one example is when you're hunting you're not just hunting like I said for the meat you're also... there's like this saying that it's like if you're successful in your hunt you're not only blessed for bird hunting blessed for deer hunting you're not only blessed but it's also a way of bringing someone who passed away back home.

So someone in your family or in the like your ancestor they want to come home so that's why you get lucky with hunting is because there's some someone in your family that passed away or someone that is an ancestor that wants to come home and visit home.

So that's one of the spiritual connections is the spirits live through the animals so when we bring it back home we treat it as someone who's visiting our home that passed away.

[Ranger Dan]

Okay.

[Lakin Epaloose]

So that's one traditional aspect of hunting.

Also going way back before there were rifles and compound bows. Of course we will use traditional bows made out of cedar if not we would use trapping techniques but not necessarily to kill the animal but to harvest the parts for example the bird feathers. There's this technique or method of trapping where you will tie this like a strand either a hair strand or a rope and you would put bait in the middle and then you would let the bird land and once the bird lands you would pull that string and grab its leg or catch its legs.

Then you'll hold it with your hand and then pluck a couple of the feathers and you just want it to pluck enough to where the bird can continue to fly so that you have the feathers you need but the bird can still live.

[Ranger Dan]

It's taking what's necessary.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah exactly.

[Ranger Dan]

Not being greedy in a way.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah and so that's another philosophy that is taught and practiced for hunting in Zuni; is that you take what you need not more than you need because if you do end up taking more than you need or more than what's necessary you can end up creating bad luck for your own life or for someone you love.

So things can happen that are unwanted or drastic.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah, it's this cascading effect that can affect the people, yeah.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah. So going to the historical aspect, like I said in our culture we teach that we migrated from Ribbon Falls, Grand Canyon to Zuni, New Mexico but along the way we stopped at several ancestral sites and one example is along the Colorado River if you follow it all the way up to Utah you'll get to the Moab area right south of Arches National Park.

So I went to Arches for ethnographic overview and one of the places we stopped at Arches I believe was called Courthouse Wash and so we hiked up into that little valley and we got to this cliff side and on the cliff side there was petroglyphs of people hunting and petroglyphs of different animals.

So once we saw that and we realized that there's all these different tracks in the valley for example bobcat which in Zuni is called Debi; deer tracks, mule deer tracks which is Na’le; some elk tracks and mountain lion tracks and bear tracks all in the area and even turkey tracks in that desert.

So there's Rio Grande turkeys in that desert and if you can imagine that desert it's iron rich dirt with some cottonwood trees so it's just red all around and it's kind of rare that you'll see turkeys but the turkeys in this area are known as Merriam's turkeys.

So there's different types of turkeys in this area but yeah so that's one fact that is connected to our historical connection with hunting.

[Ranger Dan]

And throughout time I mean you're not taking more than you need and when a need is there, it could also it could be for like sustenance for food to feed people but also there's that ceremonial side as well for the traditions that are still practiced to this very day.

And so I know like just from some of your paintings that I've seen like you've talked about like looking at what is represented in them on the figures and talking about like this is like a like a mallard feather here but so there's more than just a sustenance use for animals and they're incorporated into Zuni traditions right?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yes, so some symbolic aspects of hunting and animals and birds in general is the color and shape.

So one example is like you mentioned the mallard feathers. So on the bird there's two types of feathers on the wing: there's secondary and primary. So if you can imagine your arm like that the feathers that are on this tip right here they're known as primaries and they're the sharper feathers.

In Zuni they're called lats’umme:we; ts’umme means strong and lawe is feathers. So those are used for a specific purpose and secondary feathers are right under here if you can imagine under your arm or this undermost part of the bird wing those are more wide and so like I mentioned with the duck feather the duck feathers the secondary feathers of the duck especially the mallard they're purple.

So in Zuni they're called lak’ek’wi:we.

One of the meanings behind that color in that feather is when you look at the clouds these ones right here the cumulus clouds on the bottommost part they're very dark and dark blue and even sometimes dark purple so that's what the color of that feather it's connected to and what it means so yeah that's one example.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah I mean so it's really tied into the culture itself. Yeah there's a reason that this bird is harvested for the feathers there's a purpose for it that's a sacred use and it's an important use as well in traditions that exist in today.

And another aspect of like and I'm kind of my head's going all over the place I got so many things I can talk to you about we've only limited amount of time and like you're talking about like bringing a family member home and like it's to spend time with that person, that group of people once again.

But that's also feeding a family as well so what like beyond hunting we've got some ceremonial type uses as well but like how important is it that these hunted game build community around it, around that game itself?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah, from a cultural perspective there's religious fraternities or groups in the Zuni community that take care of a lot of the hunting obligations so that's one way it builds community and keeps the culture together and the values that formulate the culture and are responsible for the way the elders are connected to the youth.

From a personal or a familial perspective, I would say it has helped me bond with family members like my dad a lot more because that's one of the activities that me and him would do that I look back on the most.

Like we'll be hunting and he'll teach me a lot and we'll not only talk about hunting but also other things like I'll learn a lot about life when I'm out there with him.

I would also connect with my friends in different ways like I feel like the moments where I’ve laughed the most is out in the forest especially when they're doing stupid stuff.

Like one example is we're turkey hunting a couple years ago and we're sitting under a tree and there's a turkey gobbling and that was pretty hard that year because there's a lot of hunters around and the turkey was coming closer and then his legs started falling asleep and then he couldn't really move and he was complaining and it was coming closer.

I told him to be quiet and then we heard rustling going on to the left of us behind this line of trees.

We didn't know what it was later on we found out there was a black bear kind of hanging out in the area.

So there's a lot of different things going on at once when we were sitting there and then my other friend in the back he ended up farting really loud.

So that scared the turkey away, so yeah that's one of the funnier moments that I can look back on.

But yeah I got to teach my friends how to hunt specific cleans but also learn with them.

Like I had a friend his name was Ian and he passed away this year. I knew him for 12 years and one cool thing that I can remember about him is that we learned a bunch of different waterfowl together. So like it was funny this one time we were duck hunting and we shot this duck we thought it was a duck it was a grebe and if you don't know anything about grebes their feet look funny. So yeah.

[Ranger Dan]

Do they have like the big blue feet?

[Lakin Epaloose]

They do, some of them.

[Ranger Dan]

Okay.

[Lakin Epaloose]

[American] Coots can.

[Ranger Dan]

Oh that's the coots yeah, that's the coots

[Lakin Epaloose]

But they almost look like coots. So like things like that it's like I look back on and I have a lot of value for those moments

[Ranger Dan]

For sure yeah I know. I mean you're learning about people and you're learning about yourself and you're bonding in these moments and that's what helped build helps build the community at Zuni and like one of the things we always talk about when Zuni tribal members come out here is the super strong aspect of community within Zuni and it's really seen and it's kind of like a glow that everyone has around them when they come out and it's really apparent and once you start talking to everybody and it's just there.

I would say another aspect of it and this is kind of a tangent is like we know people by their official government names whereas everyone back home knows each other by nicknames and so we got to really piece together with everybody who comes out here.

Like oh you're talking about so-and-so and so-and-so and like “that's their real name?” “Yes.”

So the community is so strong everybody just knows one another which is a lot of fun to always hear and and talk about with everyone who comes out.

With the fun question we always have for the podcast, we're kind of getting into food a little bit here.

Normally we talk about like what's a favorite traditional food that would be something you would want right now but this is a little bit different I mean there's traditional foods associated with hunting but what would you go for in the game world what would you go for right now Lakin?

What would you want just a big turkey leg, like a renaissance fair type turkey leg?

[Lakin Epaloose]

Back strap on deer and antelope is good but a lot of people also prefer elk meat. With deer ribs you can't really get any meat off of them because they don't have a lot of meat on the ribs but back strap is good if you bake it or even grill it.

A traditional method of preparing deer meat or antelope meat, [or] elk meat is using a type of mint it's called frosted mint it grows near Zuni.

There's this mesa in Zuni called Dowa Yalanne which in Zuni means “Ancient mountain” and it might be confused with “Corn mountain.”

The reason why is because there's two types of Zuni language. There's kind of like it's not really new Zuni but there's definitely an older Zuni that is related to the language that was practiced when our ancestors were moving throughout this region.

So anyway that's what that word Dowa Yalanne comes from is ancient mountain and on the east side of that when the sun would come up, the frosted mint would grow along the hillsides and that grows out in Arches National Park too.

So you can pick that mint and in Zuni it's called dowa mats’a I don't know if I mentioned that I might have.

And you can cook your meat with that and it adds a really nice flavor to it. Yeah so like I said back strap with salt, pepper, paprika, cayenne pepper, garlic powder and green chili.

[Ranger Dan]

And green chilies? Yeah it's hatch green chili season right now everybody so take notes on this recipe that was just said here and I think you might want to have a good good meal.

Would be nice, yeah.

As a non hunter, but a person who's wanted to go hunting, oh man I think I would have to go for I don't know like I think elk is at the top and also like venison too.

When I lived in Alaska, everybody up there just hunted all the time. So Alaskan barbecues were amazing because you could have surf and turf but like you had everything off the hoof from moose to venison to mountain goat down to octopus, crab, shrimp everything.

Oh yeah those Alaskan barbecues, that's kind of what I'm remembering right now like mountain goat burgers that type of stuff; moose meatballs yeah there's good stuff, it’s good.

So it's a little different a little different but yeah I could definitely go for one of our pesky Elks around here. I think they'd be really tasty right now, yeah.

And to kind of round off some things here, there's a lot of satisfaction that I'm hearing within your voice when you're talking about hunting you're talking about the connections to your community.

What's kind of like the greatest sense of satisfaction that you get from this practice? Is it a physical, is it emotional, a cultural, a spiritual like if you feel like sharing for this question, what kind of satisfaction do you feel with this?

[Lakin Epaloose]

There's I guess three parts or three different kinds of satisfaction that I get from it. One is connecting with the people you are with when you're hunting and even if you're hunting by yourself you get to think a lot about like your own life and in a positive setting where there's a lot of light you're not stuck inside of a building or room.

You get to kind of explore different regions that you've never explored or even if you have, you get to revisit those and revisit old memories and thoughts and continue to ponder on those thoughts you didn't get to finish.

Yeah second aspect is you have time to connect with nature in different ways like identifying plants and learning different things about plants as well as different ways to hunt. Let's say a bird or a specific animal especially if you have a shortcoming you learn from that so you get to grow and learn in that wa.

Third one is when it comes down to actually taking the shot there's a lot of adrenaline going through your body and I think that's true with bow hunting because with rifle hunting you can just aim the gun and let it do its thing but with the bow you kind of have to like gauge the distance a little bit more precisely based on the wind too

And also hold your bow still, especially if the poundage is higher because you'll have to hold that heavy poundage for a lot longer time especially if the animal’s moving from one; let's say there's a bush in front of it moves and you have to wait for it to stand broadside.

Which broadside means basically like sideways and the reason why you want to shoot it from the angle is because you want to have an ethical kill and not a kill that makes the suffering longer.

So when it comes down to that moment and making sure all those different aspects of an ethical kill are complete, there's a lot of things that go into building up adrenaline and even anxiety if you're not prepared mentally but when you actually take the shot it's pretty cool it's like relieving.

I remember the my first archery kill was an elk. It was my third shot the first one was a 30-yard shot like from here to Eliana's bottle, maybe Eliana.

It was from here to Eliana and I messed up and I got in trouble because when I was practicing I was hitting the bullseye time and time again but when I shot it hit lower left and I was kind of like confused.

Second time was an 8 by 7 elk and that was one of the biggest I've seen and I kind of like stepped on something and it ran away or yeah I messed up.

Third chance was the hardest shot I've taken it was a 70 yard shot and I couldn't use the pins because the pins on the sight are 30, 40, 50 yards so I had to raise it above those pins to kind of gauge where it was going to land and so I took the 70 yard shot which is about from here to about that cedar, past that cedar tree sticking up from there.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah we're getting closer to the trading post now yeah with distance.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Yeah it was across a big pond it was going down to drink water in the evening. It was my last day and I was about 15 or 16 years old and I shot.

I wasn't sure if I got it but we tracked it down and I ended up getting a double lung shot which is a full pass through which is what you want.

And so that was the best shot I've taken which was the hardest shot I've taken too.

[Ranger Dan]

It's a pretty good shot, yeah. Okay I like it.

If you could leave our guests here tonight with one last thing about kind of what we talked about tonight what would you like to leave with them?

[Lakin Epaloose]

I would say that understand that a lot of the traditional practices that have taken place in this entire landscape which we call home, those practices are still passed down today.

So we still continue to hold the cultural values that have kept our families together and families that support one another so if you guys have family then try to connect with them in different ways whether it's hiking or exploring new places or just having conversations about like what you're eating or like just different aspects of life.

I feel like that's one thing I want to leave with is connect with the people you have close with you.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah I like it. Thank you Lakin.

This has been fun, this has been a good time especially having you on the other side of the microphone now.

[Lakin Epaloose]

Thank you guys for coming.

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah thank you everybody we're getting here to sunset so stay safe and enjoy.

[Ranger Jonah]

Grand Canyon Speaks is a program hosted by Grand Canyon National Park and the Grand Canyon Conservancy. A special thanks to Aaron White for the theme music. This recording reflects the personal lived experiences of tribal members and do not encompass the views of their tribal nation or that of the National Park.

To learn more about Grand Canyon First Voices visit www.nps.gov/GRCA. Here at Grand Canyon National Park we are on the ancestral homelands of the 11 associated tribes of the Grand Canyon.

These being the Havasupai tribe, the Hualapai tribe, the Navajo Nation, the Hopi tribe, the Pueblo of Zuni, the Yavapai Apache Nation, the Kaibab Band of Paiute Indians, the Las Vegas Paiute tribe, the Moapa Band of Paiutes, the Paiute Indian tribe of Utah, and the San Juan Southern Paiute tribe.