Last Chair: The Ski Utah Podcast

When Dr. Jeffrey Rosenbluth left med school for his first job at the University of Utah in 2001, he already had a vision in mind. A skier himself, he wanted to bring that wind-in-your-face sensation of the sport to those who didn’t have the same personal mobility. Fast forward to today, Dr. Rosenbluth's pioneering initiative has led to TetraSki – a device that combines medical science with engineering to create remarkable opportunities for individuals with physical disabilities.

In this episode of Last Chair, we head to the Mobility Garage of the University of Utah’s Craig H. Neilsen Rehabilitation Hospital, speaking with Dr. Jeffrey Rosenbluth, along with program director of TRAILS Adaptive Tanja Kari, a six-time Paralympic champion cross country skier who was one of the heroes of the 2002 Paralympic Winter Games in Utah.

TetraSki is truly a revolutionary mobility tool in sport. It features a customized chair attached to a pair of Rossignol skis. The engineering brains of TetraSki allow the operator to control the skis through a simple joystick. And if the skier doesn’t have the body functionality to manipulate the joystick, there’s a breathing tube – blow in or suck out, and the skis respond. A new innovation can also be attached to a functioning muscle, where muscular reflects are converted into ski movement.

Yes, this is real! And there are now around two dozen TetraSkis around the world, providing mobility opportunities to those who might never have conceived that they might ski.

Growing up in Los Angeles, Rosenbluth would always look for opportunities to get up to Utah for skiing. Wanting to spend his career in spinal cord injury medicine, when he saw a job opportunity in Salt Lake City he jumped at it.

“After the first couple of years of getting settled here, it was obvious that we had this really tight, enthusiastic campus – people with engineering backgrounds and clinical backgrounds, other scientific backgrounds, and then the access to the outdoors is just unprecedented,” he recalled. “I don't think there's another academic center that has this. So there was just an obviousness to where we were heading and getting people excited about building new devices and getting out there and trying new programs – that was an easy sell.”

Early in his tenure, he created TRAILS Adaptive – an acronym combining technology, recreation, access, independence, lifestyle, sports. TRAILS provided the first pathway to provide wellness programs and real opportunities for individuals. 

Kari was a young Finnish cross country skier when she visited Utah for the first time at the 2002 Winter Games. What stood out to her was that the same organizing committee managed both the Olympics and Paralympics – the first time ever! “We felt the difference in the Games for that,” she said, “in the level of expertise and perfectionism. It was just unbelievable for us.” Three years later, she found her way back and has now made Utah her home.

She found a home at TRAILS Adaptive for very similar reasons. “As a Paralympian and being involved in this world for a long time in different roles, the fact that we have this mentality and space in the rehabilitation hospital – being able to meet those patients right when they're here with us and sharing the methods of active living – is really important to me.”

It’s easy to geek out at the engineering in TetraSki today. However, the brilliance behind it goes back 20 years as Dr. Rosenbluth began mapping out the vision he brought from med school. “It was just this recognition that you couldn't just open up shop with just sports,” he said. “You had to really think about advocacy. You had to think about sports deeper than just participation – how could you be as independent at that sport as possible? And what if you didn't have transportation? You'd never be able to come and do the sport.

“I thought at first we were really more of a think tank, going through all the different ways we could take folks, especially with more complex disabilities, and get them to participate more frequently to create life sports for some of our complex patients – and then do it at the highest level of independence and performance.”

Ski Utah’s Last Chair podcast with Dr. Jeffrey Rosenbluth and Tanja Kari takes you inside one of the most innovative labs in the sport. It’s a fascinating – and emotional – journey showcasing the work being done at the University of Utah to provide the gift of skiing to those who can’t click into their bindings the same way that we do. 

When it comes to the lifestyle of a ski town, Utah is a real pioneer. When High West began distilling in Utah nearly 20 years ago, it was the first ski town distillery in America. Ritual Chocolate followed suit, moving to Utah in 2015. In this episode, Last Chair explores the magic of whiskey and chocolate, and the unique experiences these two Utah companies are offering visitors.

Back in season one of Last Chair, we talked with High West founder David Perkins, who told the unique story of how Utah became its home. Today, High West is a must-visit stop in either its Park City or its Wanship locations, and is one of America’s most innovative distilleries. The High West brand represents the spirit of the west.

So imagine this. When Ritual co-founder Anna Seear came to town, she started envisioning what it would be like to soak cacao nibs in used High West barrels. The distillery was also intrigued. Anna gets used High West barrels and create distinctive Ritual Bourbon Barrel bars. Then she gives the barrels back, and High West uses the chocolatey wooden kegs to create a unique Barrel Select – whiskey up front with a hint of chocolate aroma and taste in the back.

There’s a lot to learn in this entertaining episode of Last Chair, including a user’s guide to enjoying some of the world’s most notable whiskey and chocolate.

LAST CHAIR GUESTS

Holly Booth

Beverage Manager, High West

Holly Booth defines her role at High West as a creator and facilitator of memories that revolve around whiskey, cocktails, and adventure, celebrating the spirit of the American West. You can find Holly on the mountain, but she’s most at home with a fly rod on Utah’s lakes and streams.

Anna Seear

President & Co-Founder, Ritual Chocolate

Anna Seear and her partner Robbie Stout didn’t know much about chocolate, but they loved it! They started their company in Denver, moving to Utah for a lifestyle change – to be closer to the mountains. You can find Anna and her family skinning up Pine Canyon Road from their Midway home.

Cayla Gaseau

Sensory Manager, High West

What’s a sensory manager? Well, Cayla Gaseau has one of those dream jobs! Her role is to help with tasting each barrel and working with the High West team on whiskeys that might have up to 25 different blends, like Midwinter Night’s Dram. You can find her hiking places like Mt. Superior in Little Cottonwood Canyon.

WHAT GOES INTO A HIGH WEST COCKTAIL?

Holly Booth: “Our job is really to highlight the whiskey – to highlight the beauty of what we distill. Things that we can highlight are already existing within that particular whiskey. And then we kind of build around that.”

HOW DO YOU BLEND BOURBON INTO CHOCOLATE?

Anna Seear: “We soak our cacao nibs in the bourbon barrels for a few months and got in all those lovely kind of oaky cherry notes,” said Seear. “Then we take the the nibs and make the chocolate, add the sugar and produce our Bourbon Barrel Bar, which has been very popular.”

DESCRIBE THE PROCESS OF DISTILLING WHISKEY WITH CHOCOLATE.

Cayla Gaseau: “This is one of our Barrel Selects – a single barrel. We took the Ritual chocolate barrel and put in a unique blend of straight bourbon whiskeys between four and nine years old. The majority, though, is around seven years old. We really wanted to highlight the element that cacao complements in bourbon, which is a lot of the vanilla caramel and that deep sweetness. We finished it in this barrel for nine months and then dumped it and went directly to bottle – didn't proof down. I believe it's right around 102 or 103 proof – so a little spicy, but really delicious on the palate.”

WHAT’S THE ORIGIN OF THE RITUAL NAME?

Anna Seear: “It's a call back to the history of cacao and how it was used in the rituals and ceremonies by the Mayans and the Aztecs and how it was it was truly held in high regard and respected. Chocolate should be appreciated like a fine food.”

PULL QUOTE

“The synergy between our companies and what we've done in Utah, bears that pioneering spirit that's inherent within Utah.” - Holly Booth 

HIGH WEST CAMPFIRE OLD FASHIONED

2 oz High West Campfire Whiskey

.25 oz Simple Syrup (Holly likes sugar in the raw or demerara sugar)

2-3 dashes of Angostura Bitters

Orange & Lemon peel garnish or orange peel & Luxardo cherry garnish

Enjoy with a Ritual S’mores bar

SUGGESTED WHISKEY-CHOCOLATE PAIRINGS

Cask Series Distillery Select B#35195 - Bourbon Barrel Bar (created in the barrel)

Midwinter's Night Dram Act 12 - The Après Chocolate Bar (sparkling white wine and dried raspberries)

Campfire Whiskey - S'Mores Bar (just like sitting around the campfire)

Bill Rock is at home on the mountain. He skis. He snowboards. He remembers that first day his kids passed him on a ski run. He counts his blessings for being able to spend his life on ski mountains around the country – around the world! Today, as president of the mountain division of Vail Resorts, he is one of the most influential leaders in our sport. In his conversation with Ski Utah’s Last Chair podcast, he talks about the evolution of his career and the pride he takes in his company’s innovations to improve the guest experience. 

It’s now official! The Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games are returning to Utah in 2034. The International Olympic Committee made the call on July 24. In this episode of Last Chair, we’ll explore the games to come looking at a few venues outside of the traditional skiing and snowboarding realm.

With all of the 2002 Olympic venues still in place and operating, the 2034 edition will require no permanent venue construction. The IOC welcomed this sustainable approach. In 2034, around a dozen venues will be used—all within an hour’s drive of the Athlete Village on the University of Utah campus in Salt Lake City.

The caretaker of many of the venues is the Utah Olympic Legacy Foundation. President and CEO Colin Hilton talks about the Utah Olympic Park, with its bobsled, skeleton, and luge sliding track, as well as the towering ski jumps. Hilton also oversaw the assembling of all venues for the 2034 bid and will give an overview of what we can expect.

One of the most popular Olympic sports today is biathlon – an unusual combination of cross country skiing and marksmanship. Utah native Vincent Bonacci, a member of the U.S. Biathlon Team, will talk about the sport, its uniqueness and why the Soldier Hollow Nordic Center is such a vital venue.

We’ll then head to the sliding track at the Utah Olympic Park – known as one of the fastest in the world. Utah native Kaysha Love will talk about how she went from a top-tier high school and collegiate sprinter to becoming one of the best bobsledders in the world in just a few years.

Finally, we’ll talk about winning Olympic gold with 500m long-track speedskating star Erin Jackson. A Florida native, Jackson talks about her transition from inline skating to ice, tells the story about her improbable journey to Beijing to win gold, and relates (with a smile) her weekend ski experience at Deer Valley Resort.

Olympians Devin Logan and Caroline Claire are kindred spirits, finishing each other’s sentences and sharing a common passion for hucking themselves off jumps and poofing through powder pillows in the Little Cottonwood backcountry. So how did the two Long Island girls, seven years apart in age, find each other and make their way to Utah? The duo are now telling their story through the lens of filmmakers Sarah Beam Robbins and Iz La Motte in Kindred, set to premier this fall. Last Chair caught up with them on a bluebird day at Alta to hear their story.

The red tram pulled out of the station, heading up to Hidden Peak on its seven-minute run. Perched along the front left window was the legendary Junior Bounous, looking down and surveying the ski runs he plotted out 53 seasons ago. From his base at the Lodge at Snowbird, the 98-1/2-year-old Bounous still gets out to Snowbird and Alta two or three days a week. In this historic interview, Ski Utah’s Last Chair spent a day at Snowbird with Bounous, who regaled us with stories of his nearly a century in the sport.

Born into a fruit-farming family in Provo, he was 11 when he received skis as a present. He soon found his passion. His life chronicles the history of skiing in Utah, from working with Ray Stewart at Timp Haven to his mentorship under the legendary Alf Engen and spending the summer of 1971 designing the runs at Snowbird for visionary Ted Johnson.

Under the guidance of Alf Engen in the 1940s and ‘50s, Bounous learned how to convey the love of skiing to others. He became transformative as a snowsports educator, helping to standardize teaching in an era where European instructors brought differing ideologies to education. Few have introduced more individuals to the joys of skiing than Junior Bounous. And it was Junior who helped introduce the world to powder skiing.

There’s a buzz in the tram line when Junior makes his appearance. Knowledgable Snowbird skiers recognize him instantly. And he’s quick to strike up a conversation.

Atop Hidden Peak, he pauses by the memorial bench dedicated to his ski mate and wife of over 70 years, Maxine. He still soaks in the panoramic view from Mt. Superior across the valley the the terrifying crease of the Pipeline Couloir on Twin Peaks, which he skied with his friend Jim McConkey.

While recording Last Chair in Bounous room at the Lodge at Snowbird, it was mesmerizing to soak in the memorabilia on the walls. One framed article from SKI Magazine stood out from an early-’60s photo shoot by the legendary Fred Lindholm of Junior, Maxine (she’s the one way out front in the key photo), and friends skiing a massive powder bowl on the flanks of Utah’s Mount Timpanogos. Junior vividly recalls the helicopter dropping them off and then going back to Salt Lake City, leaving them a five-mile hike out after what was a glorious descent.

Skiing has brought immense happiness to the son of a fruit farmer from Provo. That joy has manifested itself in sharing the sport with others. As we skied down Chip’s Run, Junior had no issue taking the steeper drops versus cat tracks, simply checking surface conditions first. He happily posed for pictures. At one point, a ski patroller jokingly told him to slow down. It’s been 53 years since he built these trails, but you could still see the pride in his eyes. And he never stopped smiling all the way down.

Linking turns for Ski Utah photographer Chris Pearson, you could hear him singing with the rhythmic, melodic tones of his signature ba-dump … ba-dump … ba-dump, ba-dump, ba-dump with each pole plant.

If you want to bring some simple joy to your own skiing, listen to this episode of Last Chair. This is why we started skiing in the first place.

Here’s a sampling of skiing according to Junior:

The Origins of Powder Skiing

“Powder skiing really did start at Alta. However, we saw in European films as skiers going through powder in the early days, and most of it was a straight line and very little turning. Alta became known for skiing waist-deep powder and making turns. Now, the evolution took time because we were on stiff, narrow skis. Today, there are thousands of skiers with powder snow skis that were not in existence then.”

How Junior Was Tabbed to Design Snowbird

“Ted Johnson and I were friends from Alta's early beginning. He had asked me if I wanted to invest with him, and I said, ‘No, I don't have $20,000.’ I was in the national gelande contest at Alta, and Ted was there. And he said, ‘By the way, Junior, could we get you to come up and get the mountain ready to open for Snowbird?’ I knew it was going in, and I thought about it a little bit and I said, ‘Yes, I've got time. What do you want me to do?’ And he said, ‘I want you to handle the crews and get all of the runs designed and marked off and ready to open’. And so I went home and talked to Maxine. I called him, and I said, ‘Yes, when? When do I start?’ ‘Tomorrow,’ he said. I was taking this job for the summer only. But I started with topo maps in the architect's office and looked at the terrain. I had skied this terrain in the past from Alta. Coming across a Peruvian side was easy skiing. We had open runs; the Gad Valley side had thick pines and aspens and big willow trees that were 15 feet high. But anyway, first topo map, then heli-skiing and figuring out the runs. And then, after I was able to put all this on paper, we still had ten feet of snow.”

History of Ba Dump

“Ba dump entered into my teaching system. Number one is relaxing a student. Number two is rhythm. Rhythm is so important because skiing becomes a movement, not a left turn and a right turn. But it's linked together in a flow, we'll say. The rhythm building is taking the mind off of the student and giving them something to target or think about instead of what they're worrying about. And it's relaxing, as I say, and movement. But ba dump was more of a joke. However, it worked the same because the cadence of left right, left right did not work as well as ba dump, ba dump, because they were really mystified by why would you use words like that?”

A big part of the history of skiing is the fellowship of ski clubs. And before you write it off as a thing of the past, meet the OurSundays Ski & Board Club. This started out to be a podcast on diversity, exploring OurSundays’ affiliation with the National Brotherhood of Snowsports. But it quickly became a celebration of why we all love to ski and ride – a culture shared by all. 

Domeda Duncan and Mark Giles are two transplants to Utah. Domeda skied as a child in Detroit. The closest Mark came to the sport was on a jet ski in Florida. But as new Utahns, they both wanted to explore winter in the mountains on skis. After all, wasn’t that what Utah was about?

Ski Utah’s Discover Winter program provided that opportunity.

Born out of the Black Lives Matter movement in 2020, Discover Winter is now in its third season. Ski Utah made a unique decision to focus its diversity program on adults. Domeda and Mark are prime examples of how it has worked. 

If you’re a longtime skier or rider, chances are that as much as you love the sport, there are aspects that you take for granted. Hang out with the OurSundays gang, and they’ll remind you that, at its core, skiing and snowboarding are about social engagement. It’s the sizzle of the bacon alongside the buttermilk pancakes in the Brighton parking lot as the first rays of sun glint off Milly. Or it’s karaoke after a joyous day on the slopes. As Domeda says, it brings out the best in all of us.

The new OurSundays club is now a part of the National Brotherhood of Snowsports, a nationwide organization of Black ski clubs that recently celebrated its 50th anniversary. Formed by Hall of Famers Ben Finley and Art Clay, it blossomed over the years with its Black Summit, widely known as the most fun week in skiing. Domeda’s own roots in the sport trace back to the Jim Dandy Ski Club, one of the founding programs of NBS.

Industry leaders, like Ski Utah, have long grappled with how to make the sport more inviting for people of color. We could all learn a few things from OurSundays. Listen in to this Last Chair conversation with Mark Giles and Domeda Duncan. It’s an enlightening look at why we all love the culture of skiing and snowboarding. 

And if you run into Domeda on the slopes, ask her for that buttermilk pancake recipe. Now settle in for this episode of Last Chair.

The spirit of the 2002 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games in Salt Lake City still resonates across the state. This July, there will be more cause for excitement as it’s anticipated that the International Olympic Committee may name Salt Lake City-Utah as the 2034 host for the Winter Games. To learn more, Last Chair gathered in the Governor’s Mansion to hear from Utah Governor Spencer Cox, Salt Lake City Mayor Erin Mendenhall, and SLC-UT 2034 Board Chair Catherine Raney Norman.

One of the key assets of Utah’s candidacy is its robust winter environment as home to the Greatest Snow on Earth™. Every venue from 2002, across all sports, has been in continual use. Resorts, including Park City Mountain, Deer Valley Resort, and Snowbasin Resort, are expected back again.

Through its candidacy, Utah has enjoyed strong public support – over 80%! Elected officials from small venue communities, up through the state legislature and governor, have forged a strong partnership to bring the Games back, with the accompanying benefits of bringing communities together.

Both Governor Cox and Mayor Mendenhall have been visionaries who are looking to the benefits to their state and community. Governor Cox grew up on a farm in Fairview, Utah, and talks about the small ski hill near his home. Mayor Mendenhall reflects back on her memories of growing up near Little Cottonwood Canyon and working the switchboard at Snowbird. Both are now outdoor enthusiasts who embody the spirit of the state.

With a background in air quality and environment advocacy work, the mayor started as an activist and learned quickly that she could be more impactful as an elected official. After six years on the City Council, she ran for mayor and won. She was just inaugurated for a second term. “Being the mayor is just the greatest gig – especially in Salt Lake City in the state of Utah at this time. We have so much good happening. And the Olympics in 2034 is one of those big things.”

Now in the third year of his first term, Governor Cox has announced he’ll run again in 2024. “It's been a wild ride from the farm to the governor's mansion in Salt Lake City. But we feel very fortunate to be able to serve the state.”

Catherine Raney Norman is a four-time Olympic speed skater who still holds some U.S. records. She grew up in Wisconsin, but has long lived in Utah. She and her family are enthusiastic skiers. In her role as board chair, she has brought a distinct athlete vision to her leadership.

Here’s a sampling from a riveting conversation on Last Chair with Utah leaders about the benefits of the Games and how they view the importance to the state and its communities.

Governor Cox, thank you for the invitation to the mansion. Tell us a bit about it?

This is the Kearns mansion – Thomas Kearns was a young man who came out here to seek his fortune. He hit the motherlode – a silver mine in Park City. He came down with his amazing wife, he married a seamstress from Park City, and they built the first orphanage in Utah, which is amazing – St. Ann's orphanage, same architect, beautiful building. Then, he helped build the Cathedral of the Madeleine. They were so generous. This house was built in 1902.

Catherine, you not only competed as an Olympic athlete, but you also rose up early on as a leader amongst your peers.

I've spent a lot of my pre-post and athletic career advocating for athletes across the Olympic and Paralympic Movement, and have been so fortunate to stay involved in sport in many different ways, from coaching to administration to fundraising, and to now being able to help serve our community and our people here in Utah as the chair of the Salt Lake City-Utah Committee for the Games.

Mayor, there are 11 Utah ski resorts within an hour’s drive of downtown Salt Lake City. What do you see as the assets of your city as a ski town?

I think it's something you have to experience. People come here to ski, and they end up not leaving. They say, ‘we're going to come spend four months or six months, get some great experience on the mountain, then go back wherever we came from.’ They don't leave. And it's because you can actually call it a ski town. We’re the capital city of the fastest-growing state in the nation, the state has the strongest economy. I'm giving the governor's talking points now, but more than 16 years running, we're doubling our downtown population. We have incredible sports, culture, recreation, and amenities. You can walk out of this Governor's Mansion and be on a foothill trail in the wilderness up in City Creek Canyon, or other places in ten minutes. The proximity to the ski resorts and to year-round recreation is just phenomenal. So we are both an urban capital, a growing city, a strong economy, lots of cultures celebrating our diversity, and a ski town.

Governor, what importance does the Olympic and Paralympic Movement bring to you?

I love the idea of hope at a time when institutions are being torn apart, really important institutions, politically and otherwise, not just here, but all across the world. And as we start to become a little more selfish as human beings and focus internally, this reminds us of the best of us and that there are other people of different backgrounds, and it brings us together. It's one institution that has survived some of the worst parts of history. I just watched Boys in the Boat and the Olympics in Germany at that time and, the impact that those Games had on the world as we were heading into a World War and all of these difficulties that had post 9-11 when Utah was at the forefront. So I love that idea of hope and kind of unifying, bringing people together.

Mayor, how does the city feel about the possibility of another Winter Games to your community?

What we experienced in 2002 is still with us every single day. As Salt Lakers, as Utahns, we have a growing population. We've added 20% more people to Salt Lake City proper since we hosted the Games last, and we still have over 80% support in the state of Utah for hosting a future Games. What that says is that even people who've come here who maybe hadn't been born yet (in 2002) feel and they get the Olympic spirit, it's in our DNA as Utahns. And that ability to bring the global community together – we will ensure that it does have a long-standing daily positive impact for generations to come after 2034.

Governor, how has Utah’s penchant for service and volunteerism helped?

One of the things that that Cat, the mayor and I love to talk about is how the volunteers came out of the woodwork for that Olympics the first time – the Olympic movement had never seen anything like that. had to turn volunteers away. It's ingrained in people. We lead the nation in volunteerism and giving back. That combination of us participating together, not just something we watched or saw, but we experienced – that makes a big difference and has really helped us to unify.

Mayor, you had the honor of dedicating a brand new airport in the past few years?

Our New SLC is one of the busiest airports in the Americas in the Delta system. We have 26-million passengers a year. When this airport is completed, we'll be able to host 34-million passengers a year through Salt Lake City. The amount of direct and connecting flights is ever-increasing, and it's the newest airport in a couple of decades. It's an incredible, beautiful space, and we're proud of it. It's just minutes away from the...

The Christmas blizzard of 2003 still ranks as one of the biggest winter storms in Utah’s history – legendary enough to have its own Wikipedia page. It dumped four feet of snow in the valley and upwards of twice that in the mountains, closing resorts. But it also brought tragedy. On Dec. 26, 2003 an entire mountainside of snow broke off the flanks of Mt. Timpanogos, roaring down out of the clouds towards a dozen skiers, riders, hikers, and snowshoers. Five were buried, with three not making it home that evening.

Just three years into his forecaster career with the Utah Avalanche Center, skier Craig Gordon was deeply troubled by what he had seen. The victims simply didn’t know that their playground for the day, just above the Aspen Grove trailhead, was in a massive avalanche run out. So he decided to do something about it, creating the now ubiquitous educational program Know Before You Go.

What Gordon and others realized was that we all live amidst snow-filled mountains, but there was no way to get the message of snow safety to youth and teens. In its first season, Know Before You Go reached over 10,000 students in local middle and high schools across Utah. Today, it’s the staple introductory snow safety program not just in Utah but across the nation and even the world.

It’s just one of the many programs Utah Avalanche Center manages to help keep us safe. Whether you’re an avid backcountry enthusiast or limit yourself to in-bounds action, UAC has education and information to help keep you safe.

A New Jersey native who found his way out to Utah to attend college and soon found himself working in snow safety at Brighton and as a heli-ski guide. He joined UAC in 2000. Today, he’s part of a deeply experienced team and is known around the state as the guy who makes avalanche safety education fun.

This episode of Last Chair is quintessential Craig Gordon – complete with stories, humor and emotion. Dig in … it’s a fun one! Here’s just a sampling.

Craig, how do you view the services that Utah Avalanche Center offers?

We're best known for our forecasting – we're your one-stop shop, Utah Avalanche Center.org. But forecasting is just a segment of education. And to me, really, the forecasts are an educational tool. Any time I have the opportunity to share knowledge and to throw an anecdote or two and maybe throw some institutional knowledge and wisdom in, along with some tongue-in-cheek humor, yeah, now, this is sort of where the rubber hits the road. To me, it's all about education. And the more well-informed our user public is, the more they can get out of the Utah Avalanche Center forecast. The forecast is really designed in sort of a tiered approach, from beginner to intermediate, novice to expert to uber expert. You can gain something out of reading the forecast day-to-day and reading it each day. You get to know the characters in the snowpack. And you know, the last thing you want to do is open up the middle of this book, this novel and try to figure out who the characters are. So I always advise people, even on the days that you're not planning on going out, definitely take heed, check out the forecast, and see what the snow is doing. And then, when you do get a day off, or you're making your travel plans, you'll be that much better informed. So, really, to me, education is where the rubber hits the road. For us, that's the big ticket item. And that is not only in our forecasts, that is in our outreach and our classes, our backcountry 101, our basic avalanche classes, our rescue classes. It all revolves around education.

The Christmas storm of 2003 brought snow, but it also brought tragedy.

Yeah, oh my gosh, that time frame right around Christmas of 2003 brought an epic storm by all standards – historic storm rolls bigger than last year. As a matter of fact, this the Christmas storm of 2003 has its own Wikipedia reference. The storm rolls in right before Christmas and just blasts the Salt Lake Valley, Provo, Ogden. There are 30 inches of snow in downtown Salt Lake, several hundred thousand people are without power. I remember it's all I can do to get to the foothills to go skiing. It is complete mayhem just to go a mile or two. So there were three groups that had been riding at Sundance inside the ski resort boundary. The resort closes down, and these three individual groups – they don't even know each other – they ride up the road, and they're at the Aspen Grove trailhead, which is underneath one of the largest avalanche paths in Utah that funnels off Mount Timpanogos. Of course, you're going to go hike for the freshies, right? And no one's wearing avalanche transceivers, no shovels, no probes, none of the appropriate rescue gear. And as three separate groups are hiking up, one natural avalanche peels off from about 3,000 plus vertical feet above off the ridge in the clouds. So everything is just is just chaos as one slide, then sympathetically triggers two others. And now, instead of having just one football field, you have several football fields of snow crashing down from up above. 

I know even 20 years later, it’s still emotional. But you chose to do something about it?

It was so glaringly apparent how dangerous the conditions were. And again, just trying to move around in the valley, it's like it's all I can do to get to the mountains. So I'm going to the mountains on its terms, and it doesn't even want me there, you know. So this is not, you know, kind of a soft, fuzzy kind of place to be right now. It's very harsh. It's very wicked. That night, I looked my wife in the eye, and I said, ‘I am going to do everything in my power that not another family, not another partner, not another parent has to experience the tragedy of what could be a preventable avalanche accident.’I said, ‘Well, I am going to create a program where we go talk to kids in schools and middle schools and high schools.’ (My boss Bruce Tremper) says, ‘You put it together, you find the money, and it's yours.’ And I thought, ‘Man, you just challenged a go-getter overachiever who grew up in New Jersey. Man, I got this. At the time, nothing like this existed. There was nothing that was fun, that had energy to it, and that could resonate with teens.

What was the reception like when you launched Know Before You Go into Utah schools?

One of our very first talks was in front of 1,600 kids. And it was remarkable. It wasn't like some soft rollout. It was like you hit the ground running with Mick Jagger and Keith Richards and the Rolling Stones, and here we go, you know? And man, for that kind of crowd you had to have a touchpoint with everybody in the audience. And that meant giving out a thousand times the energy that was coming back. That was the secret of the success of the program. 

Did you reach a lot of kids with KBYG?

In our first year, I thought, man, if we could reach 5,000 kids, that would be remarkable. And the first year the thing took off like a rocket. We talked to 12,000 kids, and in the second year, we talked to 18,000 kids. By the start of the third year, we were able to get Know Before You Go embedded as an elective in health and phys ed in middle schools. And then everybody started coming on board. The Park City schools were awesome to get us embedded early on. The snowbelt community schools knew that this was very important.

It’s early season at Alta. OpenSnow forecaster Evan Thayer has left his meteorological screens in the hotel and is bashing his way down some fresh powder under the Collins chair. Life is good. If there is anyone we tens of thousands of Utah skiers owe a ‘thank you’ to, it would be Thayer, a weather nerd who hadn’t really planned his career path this way, but is thankful his former powder alert email list has turned into life as Utah’s snow forecaster.

The tools we have today to forecast weather are quite remarkable. The data availability and the scientific knowledge to analyze it are stunning. And that’s what Thayer does every morning, beginning at 4:00 a.m., crunching numbers, studying maps and putting out a meaningful forecast by the time we’re packing the SUV with skis at 7:00 a.m.

Thayer is making his third appearance on Last Chair here in season 5. He was the episode 3 guest in the debut season of the podcast back in December 2019.

In this episode, Thayer dives back into his past, growing up with a passion for weather going to CU-Boulder to study and ski, and finding his way to the Greatest Snow on Earth here in Utah.

It’s an insightful episode that explores his past and the popular weather app OpenSnow.

Well, Evan, how was your birthday at Alta?

Every early season I like to do a little staycation in Little Cottonwood Canyon. So I had a little birthday staycation at Gold Miner's Daughter. I knew there was a big storm coming. I knew I could get a room for a reasonable rate. And rather than deal with getting up early and getting up the canyon, it's kind of nice to wake up to fresh snow up there in Little Cottonwood Canyon, roll out of bed, get some breakfast, and just trundle out to the lifts.

Were you a weather nerd as a kid?

I was always a weather nerd. I was the kid who, back in the days prior to having internet, would set a cooking timer so I could run inside from playing with my friends and see the local on the eights on the old Weather Channel because that's when you could see the local radar.

You were in the early group of forecasters when OpenSnow was formed. How has it evolved?

It's grown a lot. It started as mostly three regions, and now we have, I don't know, 15 to 20 forecasters around the world writing daily snow forecasts. We've grown the product itself to have all sorts of different maps and overlays and different features you can use. Last year we launched Forecast Anywhere, which was a huge undertaking, but it allows a user to click on any point in the world and get the same quality forecast that you would get for, say, Park City or Alta. For any point in the world. You can see an hour-by-hour forecast for the next ten days.

How has that expanded the usage?

We have evolved as an app where I think traditionally it was all about powder – it was all about skiing. And if you ask me what I care about, what's the most important to me? I'll still say powder and skiing. But people are using the app now for all sorts of different things in the summer. They're using it for their hiking trips. We have trail estimated trail conditions that tell them whether it's a muddy trail, a snowpacked trail, or a dry trail. So if you're planning biking trips, hiking trips or backpacking trips, you can use it for that. We have smoke overlays. So in wildfire season, and how that's going to affect the air quality. We are working to forecast that to make sure you have, again, all the information you need to get out and enjoy nature.

OK, what about the whale?

That's a great question. The whale is unknowable. All I know is that they installed that on April 1st, 2022, after that moment, it started snowing and it felt like it never stopped. So I can't explain it. So I'm not going to question it. I'm just going to accept that there's a higher power in that whale and just go with it.

How can you take advantage of modern forecasting along with the depth of knowledge of weather gurus like Evan Thayer? Take a listen to this episode of Last Chair.