Latte With a Lawyer

Welcome back to Latte with a Lawyer—an essential podcast for lawyers seeking an edge in the courtroom. This week, Jonathan sits down with Billy Jones, a trial partner at Moye White who operates as a 'general surgeon' for high-stakes business litigation. Billy explains why he loves trying cases—averaging five to six a year—and prefers putting his faith in a jury, a stance that sets him apart from many commercial litigators. He reveals his core belief that every juror has a powerful 'BS meter' and shares how he breaks down complex, multi-million-dollar disputes into simple, compelling narratives that win.

Billy pulls back the curtain on his trial-first methodology, from 'thinking backwards' from day one to reverse-engineer a case strategy, to using his firm’s own paralegals and receptionists as a mock jury to test a witness's credibility. He shares a look inside a case involving a billion-dollar company whose founders are 'at each other's throats' and explains why every trial plan must follow Mike Tyson's advice: 'Everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face.' Billy also recounts his journey from being inspired by his solo practitioner father to getting 'bit by the litigation bug' and building his practice in Denver.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billy-f-jones/
FIRM Website: https://www.moyewhite.com/

Learn more about EmotionTrac and our AI-driven Emotional Intelligence Platform: https://legal.emotiontrac.com/

Welcome back to Latte with a Lawyer—the essential podcast for attorneys seeking stories of grit and unconventional success. This episode features Verne Pedro, a partner at the women-owned firm Fullerton Beck, who took a twelve-year detour into the auto industry before pursuing law. Verne shares how that experience, coupled with attending law school at night while working for an insurance company, shaped his "nose to the grindstone" approach to his now 20-plus-year career in insurance coverage litigation. He provides a candid look at his journey and why he believes law is a fun, challenging, and rewarding profession.

Verne pulls back the curtain on the high-stakes world of insurance defense, explaining how he navigates everything from premises liability to emerging cyber risks. He breaks down the nuances of New Jersey's "mode of operation" rule, where a self-serve drink dispenser can shift the burden of proof in a slip-and-fall case. Drawing on his unique perspective from representing policyholders after Superstorm Sandy and now defending insurers, Verne offers invaluable insights for any litigator looking to understand both sides of the coin in complex liability disputes.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/verne-pedro/
FIRM Website: https://www.fullertonbeck.com/

Learn more about EmotionTrac and our AI-driven Emotional Intelligence Platform: https://legal.emotiontrac.com/

Welcome to Latte with a Lawyer—the essential podcast for attorneys tracking the industry's most resilient career paths. In this episode, we sit down with Travis McDermott, a partner at Partridge Snow & Hahn, who began his career at Latham & Watkins at the worst possible moment: the fall of 2008. Travis gives a candid account of being a "baby lawyer" during the financial crisis and getting laid off in a wave so infamous it was dubbed "getting Lathamed." He explains how that early career setback forced a pivot from Big Law to a small 15-lawyer firm, ultimately shaping a versatile practice built on deep-dive discovery and a unique pre-law background installing high-tech "mission control" command centers.

Travis pulls back the curtain on the fascinating challenges of modern commercial litigation, detailing a six-week federal environmental trial where he had to prove a case from the 1950s using microfiche records. He also discusses his work on the front lines of emerging legal fields, from advising operators in Rhode Island's new recreational cannabis market to handling disputes over international COVID-19 test kit procurement. Drawing on his Master's in Dispute Resolution from Pepperdine's top-ranked Strauss Institute, Travis shares why he enjoys the process of "figuring stuff out" and preparing to cross-examine an expert far more than the thrill of the courtroom fight itself.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismcdermott/
FIRM Website: https://www.psh.com/

Learn more about EmotionTrac and our AI-driven Emotional Intelligence Platform: https://legal.emotiontrac.com/

Welcome to Latte with a Lawyer, the podcast for attorneys exploring what it takes to master the art of persuasion. In this episode, family law litigator Scott Lantry reveals his core philosophy: being a 'competitive storyteller.' Scott argues that in the emotionally charged world of divorce, the lawyer who sells the most believable story to the judge is the one who wins. He shares his 'two-tool' approach—balancing the 'olive branch of settlement' with the 'sword of litigation'—and explains why you can't be a one-tool lawyer if you want to get the best outcomes for your clients.

Scott pulls back the curtain on his most memorable cases, which center on what he calls the 'redemption narrative'—helping a good parent who has made a mistake overcome unreasonable barriers and reconnect with their children. He explains how to determine if a client is worthy of that redemption and why you can't tell a story you don't sincerely believe in. Scott also breaks down the unique features of California family law, from its 'egalitarian' fee-shifting rule designed to stop one spouse from 'out-lawyering' the other, to the surprising history of why 'common law marriage' has been a myth for over a century.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-lantry-43609115/
FIRM Website: https://disso.com/

Learn more about EmotionTrac and our AI-driven Emotional Intelligence Platform: https://legal.emotiontrac.com/

Welcome back to Latte with a Lawyer—the essential lawyer podcast for litigators navigating the modern courtroom. In this episode, commercial litigation partner Ryan McComber of Figari + Davenport shares a refreshing and experience-backed belief: juries usually get it right. Ryan explains how, in his experience, jurors cut through the noise to identify the “good guy and the bad guy,” rewarding the party that demonstrates the most genuine passion and commitment to their case. He details his practice defending insurance companies in high-stakes health, life, and disability disputes and why he prepares every single case as if it’s headed for a verdict.

Ryan also offers a masterclass in deposition strategy, arguing why virtual hearings can’t replace the power of an in-person examination. He reveals the subtle tells—the fidgeting and shifty eyes—that are lost over Zoom and explains why the pressure of the “hot lights” is crucial for securing truthful testimony. Drawing on his career at one of Dallas’s first litigation-only boutiques, Ryan provides a candid guide for when to use focus groups, how to manage client expectations around risk, and why the cases that ultimately go to trial are often the ones you least expect.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-mccomber-11b3498/
FIRM Website: http://www.figdav.com/

Learn more about EmotionTrac and our AI-driven Emotional Intelligence Platform: https://legal.emotiontrac.com/

Welcome back to Latte with a Lawyer—an essential podcast for attorneys exploring the most unique legal niches. In this episode, we talk with Lawrence Rutkowski, Senior Counsel at Seward & Kissel and one of the deans of international shipping finance. Lawrence gives a stunning look inside his 40-year career, from being a talking head on cable TV helping negotiate the release of a US-owned tanker from Somali pirates to structuring billion-dollar deals for supertankers. He explains how the industry has evolved from simple "one vessel, one bank" transactions to a complex web of hedge funds and private equity, and what it takes to master this capital-intensive global practice.

Lawrence also explains why the shipping industry is a leading indicator of global economic health, with everything from a pandemic slowdown in China to the conflict in Ukraine directly impacting the demand for vessels. He dives into the more esoteric parts of his practice, such as advising on the obscure citizenship rules for owning a US flag vessel and enforcing creditors' rights on unpaid "bunker bills" (fuel oil). From his early inspirations watching Perry Mason to building a world-class practice overlooking the New York harbor, Lawrence shares the fascinating journey of a lawyer greasing the wheels of global commerce.

Linkedin:
FIRM Website: https://www.sewkis.com/

Learn more about EmotionTrac and our AI-driven Emotional Intelligence Platform: https://legal.emotiontrac.com/

Welcome to Latte with a Lawyer, the podcast for attorneys exploring the frontiers of the legal industry. After 25 years in commercial business litigation, Lisa Pittman risked her entire career for a cause she believed in: cannabis. Inspired by the testimony of mothers fighting for their epileptic children—a struggle she understood firsthand after her own daughter's diagnosis—Lisa pivoted to become a pioneering advocate for plant-based medicine. She shares her journey from nearly leaving the law altogether to advising LSU on its groundbreaking medical marijuana program and building a multi-state practice from the ground up.

Lisa offers a rare look into the life of a self-described “gun-totin' hippie” lawyer navigating America's deep cultural and political divides. As a first-generation college graduate from a blue-collar family, she explains how her background provides a unique lens on the disconnect between the legal elite and the working-class majority—insight that allowed her to predict the 2016 election when her peers were blindsided. From lobbying Texas legislators in her “suit and pearls” to her experiences with the dogmatic “cancel culture” of the far-left in Boulder, Lisa provides a masterclass in independent thinking and understanding the America that exists outside the law firm echo chamber.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisalpittman/
FIRM Website: https://www.pittman.legal/

Learn more about EmotionTrac and our AI-driven Emotional Intelligence Platform: https://legal.emotiontrac.com/

Welcome back to Latte with a Lawyer—the essential podcast for attorneys navigating the future of legal practice. In this episode, Maslon partner Leora Maccabee shares a startling truth about modern litigation: after 14 years in practice, she has never taken a paid case to a jury trial. Leora reveals how the soaring costs of litigation have made trials exceedingly rare and explains her counterintuitive strategy for gaining invaluable courtroom experience: handling pro bono divorce and custody cases. She also discusses her unique hybrid work style, splitting her time between her downtown Minneapolis firm and a progressive, women-run co-op where she connects with entrepreneurs instead of just other lawyers.

Leora’s unconventional approach is rooted in a unique career path, from creating her own 'political and economic justice' major at Amherst to finding her calling in law while working with homeless services in New York City. She breaks down what truly makes a successful lawyer today—a potent combination of people skills and sharp legal analysis—and offers advice for law students to prioritize practical clinics over purely theoretical coursework. Leora provides a candid look at building a career as a business litigator, the power of mentorship, and the collegial legal community in Minneapolis that makes it all possible.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leoramaccabee/
FIRM Website: https://www.maslon.com/

Learn more about EmotionTrac and our AI-driven Emotional Intelligence Platform: https://legal.emotiontrac.com/

Welcome to Latte with a Lawyer, the essential podcast for attorneys seeking a different path to success. This episode features Keelin Hargadon, a partner at the international IP boutique Osha Bergman Watanabe & Burton, who has masterfully designed a legal career that honors her life outside the office. As a solo parent, Keelin deliberately sidestepped the unpredictable grind of litigation, choosing trademark prosecution for its stable hours and saner pace. She shares her candid philosophy of "working to live, not living to work," and explains how this mindset allowed her to become a partner while remaining fully present for her family—a rare feat in the demanding world of law.

But a predictable schedule doesn't mean a boring practice. Keelin dives into the thrilling world of trademark enforcement, from tracking counterfeit Louis Vuitton importers to navigating the high-stakes field of architectural copyright infringement—where a single blueprint can trigger massive, compounding damages. She also provides an inside look at her firm's innovative business model, which leverages a remote workforce to recruit top scientific talent from across the country, breaking free from the geographic limitations of its Houston headquarters. Hear her refreshing take on how she found a rewarding career away from the ego and burnout of the traditional legal battlefield.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keelin-hargadon-a378b838/
FIRM Website: https://www.obwbip.com/

Learn more about EmotionTrac and our AI-driven Emotional Intelligence Platform: https://legal.emotiontrac.com/

Welcome back to Latte with a Lawyer—the podcast for attorneys exploring the most fascinating and varied legal careers. In this episode, veteran business bankruptcy attorney Charles Tatelbaum of Tripp Scott takes us on a tour of his remarkable practice, from representing creditors in high-stakes automotive bankruptcies for giants like Ally and Nissan to navigating complex international deals. Charles recounts representing a lender in Turkey, making 27 trips to manage a 50% joint venture interest in the country's largest highway project and protect his client's $60 million in letters of credit.

But Charles’s career isn't just about the balance sheet; it's about mastering the courtroom and finding a unique work-life balance. He shares his litigation philosophy of being the most prepared lawyer in the room, explaining how to act as an “electrical transformer” to make sophisticated business concepts understandable to a jury—even using a hole in his shoe as a strategic tool. He also reveals his surprising double life as a professionally trained clown and graduate of clown university, a passion that provides an escape from the high-stress world of bankruptcy and sees him marching in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade each year.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chucktatelbaum/
FIRM Website: http://www.trippscott.com/

Learn more about EmotionTrac and our AI-driven Emotional Intelligence Platform: https://legal.emotiontrac.com/