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In this episode, Simon speaks to Professor Helen Kinsella and Associate Professor Giovanni Mantilla, two leading experts on the history and formation of the Geneva Conventions and IHL more generally. They discuss the negotiations leading up the Geneva Conventions and Additional Protocol, exploring some of the political tensions that sits behind the provisions of these key legal texts. This includes how the law treats non-state actors and non-international armed conflict, as well who gets the right to wage war. 

Helen Kinsella is a Professor of Political Science and Law at the University of Minnesota. Her research focuses on the theorization of gender and armed conflict and she is currently working on a book on sleep in war and another on the histories of the laws of war through the United States' wars against Native peoples.  She is the author of The Image before the Weapon (Cornell University Press, 2011), which won the 2012 Sussex International Theory Prize. Helen has a PhD in Political Science and an MA in Public Policy from the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities, and a BA in Political Science and Gender Studies from Bryn Mawr College.

Giovanni Mantilla is an Associate Professor in the Department of Politics and International Studies at Cambridge University, Fellow of Christ’s College, and Fellow of the Lauterpacht Centre for International Law. His research focusses on the operation of multilateralism, particularly practices of social pressure and pressure management in diplomacy, global governance, and international legal processes. His book Lawmaking under Pressure: International Humanitarian Law and Internal Armed Conflict (Cornell University Press, 2020) received the 2021 Francis Lieber award.

Additional Resources

• Helen M Kinsella and Giovanni Mantilla, 'Contestation before Compliance: History, Politics, and Power in International Humanitarian Law' (2020) 64(3) International Studies Quarterly 649.
• Helen Kinsella, 'Settler Empire and the United States: Francis Lieber on the Laws of War' (2023) 117(2) American Political Science Review 629.  
• Vasuki Nesiah, International Conflict Feminism: Theory, Practice, Challenges (University of Pennsylvania Press, 2024)
• Thomas Gregory, Weaponizing Civilian Protection (Oxford University Press, 2025)
• Tom Dannenbaum, 'Siege Starvation: A War Crime of Societal Torture' (2021) 22(2) Chicago Journal of International Law 368.
• Boyd Van Dijk, Preparing for War: The Making of the Geneva Conventions (Oxford University Press, 2022) 
• Craig Jones, The War Lawyers: The United States, Israel and Juridical Warfare (Oxford University Press, 2020)
• Janina Dill, Legitimate Targets? Social Construction, International Law and US Bombing (Cambridge University Press, 2014)

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In this series introduction, Dr Lauren Sanders and Dr Simon McKenzie talk about the Geneva Conventions, and what is in store for the Law and the Future of War podcast over the next few months.

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This episode is a recording of the  Asia-Pacific Institute for Law and Security  webinar hosted on 21 November 2024 on the functional approach to the legal review of autonomous weapon systems (AWS).

AWS are no longer limited to science fiction. Conflicts in the Ukraine and Gaza demonstrate an increased trend toward the use of autonomy in the use of force in armed conflict. This webinar will focus on the legal review obligation under Article 36 of Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions, and will consider how states can determine the legality of AWS. The event will launch a new book by Dr Damian Copeland on the topic and include a panel of experts discussing the challenges in ensuring the development and use of AWS are lawful and ethical.

Ms Vanessa Wood (Australia’s Ambassador for Arms Control Counter-Proliferation) will make some opening remarks, followed by a panel discussion moderated by Dr Lauren Sanders (APILS). Dr Wen Zhou (ICRC Legal Division), Ms Netta Goussac (SIPRI), Dr Natalia Jevglevskaja (APILS) and Dr Damian Copeland (APILS) will speak on the panel. Dr Rain Liivoja (APILS) will host the webinar.

See Dr Copeland's book here:  A Functional Approach to the Legal Review of Autonomous Weapon Systems, Brill International Humanitarian Law Series Volume 72, 2024. 

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In this episode we continue our futures mini-series, and speak with Dr Simon Ng and Ms Clare East about the challenges of adopting novel technology and influencing its regulation. In particular, as the Chief Scientist and Manager of Law, Regulation and Assurance at the Trusted Autonomous Defence Cooperative Research Centre, we hope to tease out the regulatory and engineering challenges associated with advancing adoption of novel military technologies that have been learned through TAS’ tenure.

Dr Simon Ng is Chief Technology Officer at TAS. Graduating from Monash University with a PhD in 1998, he completed a Post-Doctoral Fellowship at CSIRO before joining DSTG, where he developed techniques for military operations experimentation, and applied systems methods to surveillance and response, space operations and autonomous aerial systems. He was previously DSTG Group Leader for the Joint Systems Analysis and Aerial Autonomous Systems Groups, and Associate Director of the Defence Science Institute. He is Australia’s National Lead on The Technical Cooperation Program Technical Panel “UAS Integration into the Battlespace”, and is a Graduate of the Australian Institute of Company Directors. 

Clare East is General Manager – Law, Regulation & Assurance at TAS, and Director of East Consulting Services. Clare is a lawyer by background with significant expertise in modern regulatory approaches, and has helped a range of different organisations respond to and harness the challenges and opportunities posed by rapid change. Clare has more than ten years in public policy and regulation, having started her career at the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet before moving on to a number of private and public sector roles, including as Manager, Maritime Regulation at the Australian Maritime Safety Authority and Director, Regulatory Standards and Policy at the National Heavy Vehicle Regulator.

Additional resources:

• Alondra Nelson, The Right Way to Regulate AI: Focus on Its Possibilities, Not Its Perils, Foreign Affairs, 12 January 2024
• J. Robert Oppenheimer,  International Control of Atomic Energy, Foreign Affairs,  January 1948
• Kazuo Ishiguro,  Klara and the Sun, 2021
• Robotic and Autonomous Systems Gateway (RAS Gateway), Trusted Autonomous Systems 
• Rachel Horne (2024) Navigating to smoother regulatory waters for Australian commercial vessels capable of remote or autonomous operation. PhD by Publication, Queensland University of Technology.
• Australian Department of Industry, Science and Resources,  The Australian Government’s interim response to safe and responsible AI consultation, January 2024

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In this episode we hear from Professor Dale Stephens on the long-awaited release of The Woomera Manual on the International Law of Military Space Operations, how it came about, what it is intended to do, and where international law might be headed in relation to military space operations - as well as the challenges in drafting an international law Manual dealing with the law in a highly changing and novel domain.  Released in May this year, the Woomera Manual focuses on the law as it is, and creates a set of Rules and accompanying Commentary dealing with international law in a military space context.

Professor Dale Stephens CSM FAAL is a Professor at the University of Adelaide and a Captain in the Royal Australian Navy Reserve. He has occupied senior legal positions in the Australian Defence Force and undertook numerous operational deployments. He is Director of the Adelaide University Research Unit on Military Law and Ethics. He researches and teaches in the areas of International Law, Space Law, Military Operations Law and Law of Armed Conflict. He is Chair of the SA Red Cross IHL Committee. He was awarded his LL.M and SJD from Harvard Law School and is a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Law.

Additional Resources:
The Woomera Manual
The Artemis Accords
OEWG on Responsible Behaviours in Space

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In this episode we dive into issues of human-machine teaming, with human factors engineer Jan Maarten Schraagen. Having edited the recently released book, Responsible Use of AI in Military Systems, Jan Maarten is an expert on how brittle technologies influence joint cognitive system performance. In this episode, in addition to exploring the book, we explore the outcomes of the 2023 REAIM Summit and what we can hope for from the 2024 Summit;  talk about multidisciplinarity in the responsible military AI debate; and how we should be thinking about capability envelope of military AI - that is, how it can or should be restricted in the conditions under which it can operate. 

Jan Maarten Schraagen is a cognitive systems engineer at TNO, and studies how brittle technologies influence joint cognitive system performance. He is a human factors specialist with broad experience in optimizing work processes and teamwork design. He is particularly interested in making work safe, productive and healthy, and improving resilience in sociotechnical work systems.

Additional resources:

• Jan Maarten Schraagen (ed), Responsible Use of AI in Military Systems, CRC Press, 2024
• Ekelhof, M.A.C. (2018). Lifting the Fog of Targeting: “Autonomous Weapons” and Human Control through the Lens of Military Targeting. Naval War College Review, 71(3), 61-94.
• Ekelhof, M.A.C. (2019). Moving beyond semantics on autonomous weapons: Meaningful human control in operation. Global Policy, 10(3), 343-348.
• Endsley, M.R. (2017). From here to autonomy: Lessons learned from human-automation research. Human Factors, 59(1), 5-27.
• Taddeo, M., & Blanchard, A. (2022). A comparative analysis of the definitions of autonomous weapons systems. Science and Engineering Ethics, 28, 37-59.
• Herbert Simon, Bounded Rationality, Utility and Probability, NPA, 1990
• Peeters, M.M.M., van Diggelen, J., van den Bosch, K., Bronkhorst, A., Neerincx, M.A., Schraagen, J.M., Raaijmakers, S. (2021). Hybrid collective intelligence in a human–AI society. AI and Society, 36(1), 217-238.
• Schraagen, J.M.C., Barnhoorn, J.S., Van Schendel, J., & Van Vught, W. (2022). Supporting teamwork in hybrid multi-team systems. Theoretical Issues in Ergonomics Science, 23(2), 199-220.
• Van der Kleij, R., Schraagen, J.M.C., Cadet, B., & Young, H.J. (2022). Developing decision support for cybersecurity threat and incident managers. Computers & Security, 113, 102535.
• Schraagen, J.M.C. (2023). Responsible use of AI in military systems: Prospects and challenges. Ergonomics, 66(11), 1719 – 1729.

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Part of the ongoing debate about the lawfulness of autonomy in military systems in the manner in which the technology integrates with and interacts with its human masters.  The term Meaningful Human Control (or MHC) has garnered particular relevance in this debate. Today we speak with Dr Lena Trabucco about her upcoming OpinioJuris Symposium on Military AI and the Law of Armed Conflict, co-edited with Dr Magda Packholska, on this issue, as well as her work on legal challenges associated with emerging technology more broadly.

Lena is a research fellow, a visiting scholar at the Stockton Center for International Law at the US Naval War College, and research fellow at the Technology, Law and Security Program at American University College of Law and the University of Copenhagen. Her research focuses on the intersection of international law and emerging military technology, particularly autonomous weapon systems. She has multiple projects examining human control throughout an autonomous weapon system life cycle. Previously, she was a post-doctoral researcher at the Centre for Military Studies at the University of Copenhagen. Lena received a PhD in law from the University of Copenhagen and a PhD in international relations from Northwestern University.

Additional resources:

• Opinio Juris Symposium on Military AI and the Law of Armed Conflict
• Kevin Jon Heller, 'The Concept of 'The Human' in the Critique of Autonomous Weapons', 14 Harvard National Security Journal (2023)
• Magdalena Pacholska, 'Military Artificial Intelligence and the Principle of Distinction: A State Responsibility Perspective', Israel Law Review (2022), 1–21
• Rebecca Crootof, 'A Meaningful Floor for 'Meaningful Human Control', Temple International & Comparative Law Journal, Vol. 30, 2016
• Kenneth Payne's Substack
• Killer Robot Cocktail Party (Lena and Brad Boyd's substack)

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In this episode, Lauren Sanders is speaking with fellow LFW researcher, Renato Wolf about the issue of determining where legal obligations lie in the conduct of attacks, carried out by AWS. In particular they delve into his research about the Art 57 term ‘those who plan or decide attacks’ to see how that maps onto AWS, how that features in the AWS debate and what needs to be thought about in operationalising this legal obligation.

Renato Wolf is an international lawyer who served as a legal adviser to the Swiss Armed Forces for nearly ten years. He was deployed to Kosovo and Bosnia-Herzegovina, and then spent two years working as a legal advisor to the Disarmament, Demobilization and Reintegration Unit at the United Nations Headquarters in New York. He holds a Bachelor of Law and a Master of Law with a specialization in international law from the University of Bern, Switzerland, as well as a Master of Arts in War in the Modern World from the King’s College London. He is currently a research fellow at the University of Queensland and finalizing his PhD on the legal review of autonomous weapons.

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In this episode, Dr Lauren Sanders speaks with Professor Stuart Casey-Maslen about Directed Energy Weapons. They traverse the existing legal controls on these weapons, and speak about the potential for future regulation of novel uses of energy weapons in armed conflict. 

This conversation preceded a presentation by Dr Casey-Maslen, Dr Sanders and  Dr Altman for UNIDIR, which was a side event to the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons Meeting of States Parties, held in November 2023. 

Stuart Casey-Maslen is an international lawyer and Professor at the University of Pretoria, specialising in the use of force and the protection of civilians, and he has published numerous books and articles on this topic. He is also an Associate Fellow within the Global Fellowship Initiative of the GCSP. 

Additional Resources: 

• United Nations Human Rights Guidance on Less-Lethal Weapons in Law Enforcement, 01 June 2020.
• ICRC Expert Meeting on Legal Reviews of Weapons and the SlrUS Project.
• A/78/324: Thematic study on the global trade in weapons, equipment and devices used by law enforcement and other public authorities that are capable of inflicting torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, 24 Aug 23.

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As part of our ‘futures’ mini-series, in this episode we are looking specifically at Algorithmic Futures, with hosts of the podcast of the same name: Dr Zena Assaad and Dr Elizabeth Williams, both from ANU. Today we are going to specifically focus on the breadth of the design and uncertainty problem for capabilities augmented by algorithms.  

Elizabeth T. Williams is an Associate Professor in the School of Engineering at the Australian National University (ANU).  She has a PhD in experimental nuclear structure from Yale University. Since joining the ANU in 2012, Liz has held an ARC DECRA Fellowship, mucked about with accelerators, code, and superheavy elements, and explored complexity in real-world technological systems. She also led the creation of the hands-on half of the Masters of Applied Cybernetics, convened the School of Cybernetics 2021 PhD cohort program, and will soon convene the newly created Nuclear Systems major and minor for the School of Engineering’s Bachelor of Engineering programs.

Zena Assaad is a senior research fellow within the School of Engineering at the Australian National University (ANU). Zena studied a Bachelor of Aerospace Engineering and completed a PhD exploring decision-making under uncertainty to support strategic air traffic flow management. Zena currently holds a fellowship position under the ethics uplift program with trusted autonomous systems, exploring human-machine teaming; and is also a fellow with the Australian Army Research Centre researching autonomy in swarms and human-machine teams.

Additional Resources:

• Algorithmic Futures - podcast by Zena Assaad and Liz Williams
• Klara and the Sun - K Ishaguro, 2021
• The Ironies of Automation - L Bainbridge, Automatica, Vol. 19, No. 6. pp. 775 779, 1983