By Asia-Pacific Institute for Law and Security
Through conversation with experts in technology, law and military affairs, this series explores how new military technology and international law interact. Edited and produced by Dr Lauren Sanders,
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The podcast currently has 90 episodes available.
In this episode we continue our futures mini-series, and speak with Dr Simon Ng and Ms Clare East about the challenges of adopting novel technology and influencing its regulation. In particular, as the Chief Scientist and Manager of Law, Regulation and Assurance at the Trusted Autonomous Defence Cooperative Research Centre, we hope to tease out the regulatory and engineering challenges associated with advancing adoption of novel military technologies that have been learned through TAS’ tenure.
Dr Simon Ng is Chief Technology Officer at TAS. Graduating from Monash University with a PhD in 1998, he completed a Post-Doctoral Fellowship at CSIRO before joining DSTG, where he developed techniques for military operations experimentation, and applied systems methods to surveillance and response, space operations and autonomous aerial systems. He was previously DSTG Group Leader for the Joint Systems Analysis and Aerial Autonomous Systems Groups, and Associate Director of the Defence Science Institute. He is Australia’s National Lead on The Technical Cooperation Program Technical Panel “UAS Integration into the Battlespace”, and is a Graduate of the Australian Institute of Company Directors.
Clare East is General Manager – Law, Regulation & Assurance at TAS, and Director of East Consulting Services. Clare is a lawyer by background with significant expertise in modern regulatory approaches, and has helped a range of different organisations respond to and harness the challenges and opportunities posed by rapid change. Clare has more than ten years in public policy and regulation, having started her career at the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet before moving on to a number of private and public sector roles, including as Manager, Maritime Regulation at the Australian Maritime Safety Authority and Director, Regulatory Standards and Policy at the National Heavy Vehicle Regulator.
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In this episode we hear from Professor Dale Stephens on the long-awaited release of The Woomera Manual on the International Law of Military Space Operations, how it came about, what it is intended to do, and where international law might be headed in relation to military space operations - as well as the challenges in drafting an international law Manual dealing with the law in a highly changing and novel domain. Released in May this year, the Woomera Manual focuses on the law as it is, and creates a set of Rules and accompanying Commentary dealing with international law in a military space context.
Professor Dale Stephens CSM FAAL is a Professor at the University of Adelaide and a Captain in the Royal Australian Navy Reserve. He has occupied senior legal positions in the Australian Defence Force and undertook numerous operational deployments. He is Director of the Adelaide University Research Unit on Military Law and Ethics. He researches and teaches in the areas of International Law, Space Law, Military Operations Law and Law of Armed Conflict. He is Chair of the SA Red Cross IHL Committee. He was awarded his LL.M and SJD from Harvard Law School and is a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Law.
Additional Resources:
The Woomera Manual
The Artemis Accords
OEWG on Responsible Behaviours in Space
In this episode we dive into issues of human-machine teaming, with human factors engineer Jan Maarten Schraagen. Having edited the recently released book, Responsible Use of AI in Military Systems, Jan Maarten is an expert on how brittle technologies influence joint cognitive system performance. In this episode, in addition to exploring the book, we explore the outcomes of the 2023 REAIM Summit and what we can hope for from the 2024 Summit; talk about multidisciplinarity in the responsible military AI debate; and how we should be thinking about capability envelope of military AI - that is, how it can or should be restricted in the conditions under which it can operate.
Jan Maarten Schraagen is a cognitive systems engineer at TNO, and studies how brittle technologies influence joint cognitive system performance. He is a human factors specialist with broad experience in optimizing work processes and teamwork design. He is particularly interested in making work safe, productive and healthy, and improving resilience in sociotechnical work systems.
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Part of the ongoing debate about the lawfulness of autonomy in military systems in the manner in which the technology integrates with and interacts with its human masters. The term Meaningful Human Control (or MHC) has garnered particular relevance in this debate. Today we speak with Dr Lena Trabucco about her upcoming OpinioJuris Symposium on Military AI and the Law of Armed Conflict, co-edited with Dr Magda Packholska, on this issue, as well as her work on legal challenges associated with emerging technology more broadly.
Lena is a research fellow, a visiting scholar at the Stockton Center for International Law at the US Naval War College, and research fellow at the Technology, Law and Security Program at American University College of Law and the University of Copenhagen. Her research focuses on the intersection of international law and emerging military technology, particularly autonomous weapon systems. She has multiple projects examining human control throughout an autonomous weapon system life cycle. Previously, she was a post-doctoral researcher at the Centre for Military Studies at the University of Copenhagen. Lena received a PhD in law from the University of Copenhagen and a PhD in international relations from Northwestern University.
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In this episode, Lauren Sanders is speaking with fellow LFW researcher, Renato Wolf about the issue of determining where legal obligations lie in the conduct of attacks, carried out by AWS. In particular they delve into his research about the Art 57 term ‘those who plan or decide attacks’ to see how that maps onto AWS, how that features in the AWS debate and what needs to be thought about in operationalising this legal obligation.
Renato Wolf is an international lawyer who served as a legal adviser to the Swiss Armed Forces for nearly ten years. He was deployed to Kosovo and Bosnia-Herzegovina, and then spent two years working as a legal advisor to the Disarmament, Demobilization and Reintegration Unit at the United Nations Headquarters in New York. He holds a Bachelor of Law and a Master of Law with a specialization in international law from the University of Bern, Switzerland, as well as a Master of Arts in War in the Modern World from the King’s College London. He is currently a research fellow at the University of Queensland and finalizing his PhD on the legal review of autonomous weapons.
In this episode, Dr Lauren Sanders speaks with Professor Stuart Casey-Maslen about Directed Energy Weapons. They traverse the existing legal controls on these weapons, and speak about the potential for future regulation of novel uses of energy weapons in armed conflict.
This conversation preceded a presentation by Dr Casey-Maslen, Dr Sanders and Dr Altman for UNIDIR, which was a side event to the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons Meeting of States Parties, held in November 2023.
Stuart Casey-Maslen is an international lawyer and Professor at the University of Pretoria, specialising in the use of force and the protection of civilians, and he has published numerous books and articles on this topic. He is also an Associate Fellow within the Global Fellowship Initiative of the GCSP.
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As part of our ‘futures’ mini-series, in this episode we are looking specifically at Algorithmic Futures, with hosts of the podcast of the same name: Dr Zena Assaad and Dr Elizabeth Williams, both from ANU. Today we are going to specifically focus on the breadth of the design and uncertainty problem for capabilities augmented by algorithms.
Elizabeth T. Williams is an Associate Professor in the School of Engineering at the Australian National University (ANU). She has a PhD in experimental nuclear structure from Yale University. Since joining the ANU in 2012, Liz has held an ARC DECRA Fellowship, mucked about with accelerators, code, and superheavy elements, and explored complexity in real-world technological systems. She also led the creation of the hands-on half of the Masters of Applied Cybernetics, convened the School of Cybernetics 2021 PhD cohort program, and will soon convene the newly created Nuclear Systems major and minor for the School of Engineering’s Bachelor of Engineering programs.
Zena Assaad is a senior research fellow within the School of Engineering at the Australian National University (ANU). Zena studied a Bachelor of Aerospace Engineering and completed a PhD exploring decision-making under uncertainty to support strategic air traffic flow management. Zena currently holds a fellowship position under the ethics uplift program with trusted autonomous systems, exploring human-machine teaming; and is also a fellow with the Australian Army Research Centre researching autonomy in swarms and human-machine teams.
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Continuing our future of war series, this episode dives into the legal implications of increasing transparency of the battlespace as a result of technological change; and looks at developments in biological warfare that challenge the long-standing prohibition on biological weapons at international law. We speak with Rob Lawless from the Leiber Institute, at the Westpoint Academy to hear more.
Robert Lawless is an Associate Professor in the Department of Law at the United States Military Academy, West Point. He teaches various courses, including military law and the law of armed conflict. He is also the Research Director of the Lieber Institute for Law and Warfare and one of the editors of Articles of War.
Professor Lawless previously spent ten years as an active-duty military officer in the U.S. Army JAG Corps., serving in several positions advising commanders on legal issues. He also spent almost three years as an Army litigator, representing both the U.S. government and individual soldiers in courts-martial and other military justice forums.
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In this third episode in our futures mini-series, we continue our scoping of the utility of seeking to predict the future of war; before deep diving into emerging and disruptive technologies. Recorded in late September 2023, we are speaking with Artur Gruszczak about the Future of War, and his recently edited Handbook on the same topic, released by Routledge this September.
Artur Gruszczak holds a PhD in Political Science from Jagiellonian University in Krakow. Currently he holds an appointment there as an Associate Professor of Political Science, Chair of National Security at the Faculty of International and Political Studies. Since 2014 he has been Faculty Member of the European Academy Online run by the Centre international de formation européenne in Nice. His academic interests and research areas include: security studies, EU area of freedom, security and justice, intelligence cooperation in the European Union, and the evolution of modern warfare.
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Recorded in early September 2023, this episode continues our futures mini-series, where we speak with Dr Ian Langford and Professor David Killcullen about the future of war in the Indo-Pacific region. In this episode we will be getting a download on what the change in geopolitics in the Indo-Pacific means for Australia, and how that might impact choices relating to technology, acquisitions and their subsequent use and regulation; as well as discussing what the future of proxy warfare and modern counterinsurgency might look like.
Dr Ian Langford, DSC and Bars, is a member of a member of UNSW’s Future Operations Research Group and is a strategic adviser with UBH Group, a leading Sovereign Information Domain (SID) company. Dr Langford is a regular contributor to the Australian Army Research Centre, and in addition to being a Distinguished Graduate of the United States Marine Corps Command and Staff College and the School of Advanced Warfighting, he has recently retired from the Australian Army as a Brigadier where he filled multiple senior roles including – relevant to our discussion today – as the Army’s Director General of Future Land Warfare and the Head of Land Capability.
Dr David Kilcullen is a former soldier and diplomat, and a scholar of guerrilla warfare, terrorism, urbanisation and the future of conflict, who served 25 years for the Australian and United States governments. During the Iraq War, he served in Baghdad as a member of the Joint Strategic Assessment Team, then as Senior Counterinsurgency Advisor, Multi-National Force Iraq in 2007, before becoming Special Advisor for Counterinsurgency to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on counterinsurgency; and in addition to holding senior academic roles across a number of institutions, he has written six books on counterinsurgency.
Additional resources:
- Australian Defence Strategic Review
- USMC Stand-In Force Concept
- UK Future Commando Force Concept
The podcast currently has 90 episodes available.