LDS Faith Journeys – Gospel Tangents – Mormon History Podcast

Have you wondered what’s behind the energy in the polygamy revisionist movement? Are these the same as RLDS polygamy arguments? Back in 2010, Newell Bringhurst wrote a chapter in “Persistence of Polygamy” on the evolution of RLDS thinking on Joseph Smith’s polygamy, how it got forgotten, and recycled among a new generation of LDS members who weren’t aware of the previous history.

Are the modern arguments that Joseph Smith was a strict monogamist actually new? In this deep dive, we explore the “layered archive” of historical claims surrounding Joseph Smith’s polygamy, revealing that many of today’s “polygamy revisionist” arguments are actually recycled 19th-century RLDS positions.

The presentation breaks down the 150-year evolution of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (now Community of Christ) through four distinct phases:

The Early Concessions (1852–1860): Contrary to popular belief, early leaders like William Marks and Isaac Sheen did not initially deny Joseph Smith’s involvement. Instead, they claimed he had been involved in “spiritual wifery” but recognized his error and repented shortly before his death in Carthage.

The Era of Absolute Denial (1860–1960): Under the leadership of Joseph Smith III, the strategy shifted toward establishing the absolute innocence of the founding prophet. This century-long “institutional mandate” framed D&C 132 as a “Brighamite forgery” and placed the blame for polygamy entirely on Brigham Young.

The Academic Shockwave (1960s–1980s): The “dam broke” when mid-century historians like Robert Flanders and Lawrence Foster published research that eroded the bedrock of the church’s denial. This led to a painful institutional reckoning, eventually forcing the church to acknowledge Joseph Smith’s foundational role in plural marriage.

The Modern Revisionist Resurgence: Today, a new wave of LDS members—facing their own faith crises—are adopting these older RLDS arguments to resolve cognitive dissonance regarding the prophet’s moral legacy.

Drawing on works like Newell Bringhurst’s The Persistence of Polygamy and Robert Flanders’ Nauvoo: Kingdom on the Mississippi, this presentation weighs revisionist claims against the preponderance of contemporaneous evidence. We also discuss the psychological toll of these shifting narratives and the ongoing battle to control the legacy of Joseph Smith.

Chapters

Why do conversations with Church leaders go wrong so often? Former mission president Jeff Strong says talking to leaders and parents is one of the least helpful things to do in a faith crisis. It’s 4.5 times worse than talking with siblings. Why do some family members quit speaking to those who leave? Should Church leaders better model Christian disagreement? Can a bottom up movement like this succeed in a top-down organization? Check out our conversation…

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Jeff Strong, author of Torn, dives deep into the data surrounding how church members and leaders handle disaffiliation. The conversation shifts from personal narrative to the practical—and often surprising—realities of how we communicate within the faith.

Strong shares a provocative statistic from his research: while 83% of those in a faith transition reach out to someone, the outcome varies wildly depending on who they talk to. Interactions with siblings and friends generally go well, but conversations with devout church leaders are four and a half times more likely to “go badly,” meaning the relationship suffers and the individual feels more inclined to withdraw from the community. Strong attributes this to a default mode of trying to “correct or contain” the person rather than building trust.

A major theme of this discussion is the “goofy cultural idea” of practicing “enforced agency.” Strong argues that when parents or leaders attempt to manipulate outcomes—such as withholding an inheritance or cutting off family members to maintain a temple recommend—they are actually infringing on the foundational doctrine of agency. He reminds listeners that stewardship does not equal control, citing Joseph Smith’s experience with the lost 116 pages as a lesson that God’s work is not dependent on our ability to control others.

Addressing the concern that change in the Church is strictly “top-down,” Strong offers a empowering alternative: bottom-up culture change. While he avoids criticizing the institution or “steadying the ark” by telling Salt Lake what to do, he insists that individuals have the power to shape the culture within their own hearts, marriages, and wards. He notes that even one “Christ-centered” Bishop can completely transform a ward’s atmosphere in a short time.

Strong concludes by urging members to stop “thinking through the amygdala”. When we act out of fear—the “circle the wagons” behavior—it shuts down spiritual growth. By choosing “perfect love” over fear, families can maintain strong relationships even when religious paths diverge. His ultimate goal is not to “recruit” people back, but to help the Church become a place where different types of people can stay, feel they belong, and remain rooted in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

0:00 Why Conversations with Church Leaders Go Wrong

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Author Jeff Strong details the “tectonic plate shifting moment” when his son, while serving in the Missionary Training Center (MTC), suddenly wrote him about leaving the faith: both his mission and the LDS Church. At the time, Strong was serving as a Bishop. He admits that he and his wife initially handled the situation poorly by assuming their son had committed a serious sin. This personal crisis spurred Strong to conduct extensive research into disaffiliation, including qualitative work in 40 cities across 20 countries to understand the real reasons people step away from faith.

Don’t miss our other conversations Jeff: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jeff-strong

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Strong challenges the “lazy learner” stereotype, revealing that faith transitions are often deeply serious, intentional, and painful processes. Research cited by Strong shows that 49% of individuals experiencing a faith transition spend more hours than they can count over five or more years researching their decision, often likening the experience to the “death of a loved one.” Strong describes his family’s initial communication as “cavemen grunting at each other” because they were “talking under the influence” of intense fear, anger, and anxiety.

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Why are people really leaving the LDS Church? In Part 2 of our deep dive into LDS disaffiliation, we continue our conversation with Jeff Strong, author of the groundbreaking book “Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn from Them.” This episode moves beyond the statistics to explore the complex, personal “waves” of modern faith loss.

Don’t miss our other conversations Jeff: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jeff-strong

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Key topics covered in this episode include:

* Massive Scale & Methodology: Learn how the study captured the voices of 15,000 participants who cared so deeply about these issues that they spent an average of 90 minutes completing a 71-question survey.

*AI and “10,000 Pages of Heartache”: To understand the nuance of the “verbatim” stories provided by respondents, Jeff’s team utilized artificial intelligence to query over 10,000 pages of personal responses.

*Is 40% Too Low? Jeff explains why he landed on a conservative 40% figure, despite other data sets like the General Social Survey (GSS) suggesting disaffiliation could be closer to 50%.

The “Four Waves” of Disaffiliation: A look at how the reasons for leaving have shifted over time and why traditional “internet Mormon” stereotypes may not tell the whole story.

Whether you are a leader, a family member, or someone navigating your own faith journey, this episode offers a data-driven yet deeply empathetic look at how hot the “fire” of disaffiliation is burning today.

Watch Part 1 to see the initial breakdown of the 40% disaffiliation statistic and the “leaky bucket” math of church growth.

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Is the LDS Church actually shrinking? We’re talking about LDS disaffiliation with  Jeff Strong, author of the new book Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn from Them. While official membership records show steady growth, the reality of active participation tells a much more complex story. In this episode, I’ll sit down with Jeff to break down the startling data behind modern disaffiliation.

Don’t miss our other conversations Jeff: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jeff-strong

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Gospel Tangents

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Don’t miss our other conversations Jeff: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jeff-strong

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Gospel Tangents

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Are you or someone you love navigating a faith crisis? You are not alone. Jeff Strong says 40% are leaving the Church.

A historic shift is transforming the religious landscape. According to Jeff Strong’s new book Torn, nearly 40% of members are stepping away from their faith communities. But why is this happening, and how can we better understand and support those we love who leave? In this video, we unpack the insights from four groundbreaking books: Torn, Goodbye Religion, Bridges, and The Next Mormons. We are tackling the tough questions and busting the harmful myths that say people leave because they are “lazy learners,” easily offended, or simply want to sin. The reality is far more complex.

For many, a faith transition is an agonizing, lonely, and deeply principled journey triggered by a desire for moral integrity rather than a loss of morals. We will compare the data across these four sources to explore the profound emotional toll of a faith crisis, while offering actionable, research-backed advice for current members. Discover how shifting our focus from “fixing” doubts to listening, empathizing, and providing unconditional love can help build bridges and keep our families together.

Listen now to learn how we can transform judgment into compassion and better minister to those we love!

Don’t miss our other conversations on faith crisis.

Is faith crisis still a problem? What advice do you have?

Orthodox Easter this year was a week later than Western Christianity. I was able to take a unique journey into Orthodox Easter traditions and the historical resilience of early Christianity.

It was a fascinating experience to visit St. Mary’s Coptic Orthodox Church in Clearfield, Utah, after meeting a California member named Daniel Michalski. Unlike Western traditions, the Coptic Easter service is held on Saturday night and can last up to four hours, featuring a blend of English, Coptic, and Arabic chanting. One of the most striking rituals is the procession of the icon of Christ, which is buried in roses during Holy Week and then “resurrected” as the lights are turned on, accompanied by the unique sound of cymbals. Beyond the personal experience, we dove into the history of the Coptic Church, which split from Western Christianity in 451 AD following the Council of Chalcedon over complex theological debates regarding the nature of Christ.

This history is framed within a broader discussion of the early Christian era, moving from the movement’s roots as a persecuted sect to its establishment as the Roman state religion under Constantine. Most Mormons are familiar with the death and resurrection of Christ and Constatine’s ascension in the 4th century,  but know little about history of Christianity in the centuries in between. I discussed various early factions, such as the Gnostics, who prioritized secret wisdom over the physical resurrection, with the orthodox view that eventually triumphed.

We also touched on the following key points:

Janice Allred was excommunicated just over 30 years ago, but still attends the LDS Church!!! Why? She will talk about why she stays, and offer advice to others on how to stay if they want to. We’ll discuss how it affects her family, her testimony, and we’ll even dive into why current polygamy revisionists are getting into trouble with LDS Church leaders. Check out our conversation!

What does it look like to remain dedicated to a faith community that has formally cast you out? For Janice Allred, a “philosophical theologian” who was excommunicated in 1995, the answer is found in showing up every Sunday for over thirty years. Allred, the sister of fellow scholar Margaret Toscano, was disciplined primarily for her writings on “God the Mother“ and her critiques of church authority, yet she remains a fixture in her local ward.

When asked the “Sunstone question” of why she stays, Allred’s first response is simple: “Because I want to”. Her deeper motivations are rooted in her identity as a follower of Jesus Christ, noting that He encouraged His followers to meet together often to strengthen one another. Furthermore, she feels a profound connection to the revelations of Joseph Smith, including the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, and wants to worship where those texts are accepted as scripture.

The road has not been easy. For the first five to ten years after her excommunication, Allred describes being treated like a “pariah” and was largely ignored by her ward members. She recalls a poignant moment five years in when a fellow ward member simply said “Hello,” and she nearly broke into tears because so few had spoken to her during that time.

The turning point was a house fire. While the community struggled to know how to respond to her theological dissent, they knew exactly how to help a family in a physical crisis. Today, she is a regular participant in Sunday school and Relief Society, though she is denied the sacrament, which she describes as the hardest part of her experience.

Allred offers a unique perspective for those struggling with their faith: be an observer. She navigates the tension of hearing things she disagrees with—such as the “adulation” of church leadership or the Proclamation on the Family—by taking a step back and viewing the meetings through a sociological or theological lens. She does not feel the need to agree with everything said from the pulpit to feel that she belongs to the “invisible church” of true followers of Christ.

Perhaps most surprising is Allred’s stance as a “polygamy revisionist.” Through her theological studies, she became convinced that Joseph Smith neither taught nor practiced polygamy, and she views Section 132 as a later forgery or a text contrary to the gospel. While this view challenges the lineage of authority from Brigham Young, she maintains that her primary goal is seeking what is true according to her own conscience and inspiration.

Janice Allred’s journey is a testament to self-authorship in faith. She remains a “member of the ward” in spirit, even if not on the records, proving that for some, the community of Christ is worth the discomfort of dissent.

What do you think of Janice’s persistence for 30+ years?

Ben Schilaty, a former BYU Honor Code administrator, is a social work professor and author who discusses his life as a gay Latter-day Saint. He details his professional background, and his current work with the Gather Conference. Schilaty shares his personal faith journey, explaining how he reconciles his sexual orientation with his commitment to the Church through prayer and personal revelation. He advocates for radical empathy and honoring the individual agency of LGBTQ members, whether they choose to stay in or leave the faith. Throughout the conversation, he emphasizes the importance of sincere listening and building supportive communities where diverse experiences are validated.

Don’t miss our other LDS Faith Journeys: https://gospeltangents.com/tag/lds-faith-journeys/

Ben Schilaty is a professor of social work at Utah Valley University and author of A Walk in My Shoes. He shared a deeply personal look at his life as a gay Latter-day Saint. Schilaty, who humorously describes himself as “fame-ish” due to the parasocial relationships readers and listeners have formed with him, offers a unique perspective on the intersection of faith, identity, and belonging.

Ben describes his internal journey in three distinct phases. In his 20s, he felt “broken” and believed he needed to be “fixed” to fit the mold of a traditional Latter-day Saint marriage. In his early 30s, the pendulum swung, and he felt that if he couldn’t change, perhaps the Church had to change. Today, he focuses on “living in what is,” a practice of accepting reality as it is to find health and happiness.

A pivotal moment in this journey occurred when Ben nearly left the Church after a painful heartbreak. Despite his parents’ full support and their promise to honor his agency regardless of his choice, a prayerful encounter with Matthew 26 changed his path. Reflecting on Christ’s prayer in Gethsemane, Ben felt a “clear and very annoying prompting” that his “cup” was to live his life within the teachings of the Church—a choice that transformed his religious practice from a burden into something life-giving.

Providing a rare look into his four years as an Honor Code administrator at BYU, Ben dispels common myths about the office. While many assume the office is preoccupied with “morality” or LGBTQ+ issues, Ben notes that same-sex romantic behavior reports were uncommon, occurring only about ten times a year. Instead, the vast majority of his work involved academic dishonesty, plagiarism, and timecard theft.

Ben is a co-founder of the Gather conference, a Christ-centered support system for LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints and their allies. He describes it as a “middle space” compared to other organizations like Affirmation or Northstar. Gather serves a diverse group—about 80-90% of whom are active in the Church—including those in same-sex marriages, those choosing celibacy, and parents or leaders seeking to understand their loved ones better.

A major theme of the discussion was radical acceptance and honoring the agency of others. Ben emphasizes that:

Ben’s final invitation to the audience is simple: instead of just reading his book or listening to his podcast, invite the LGBTQ+ people in your own life to tell you their stories.

What do you think of Ben’s experience as an active, gay Latter-day Saint?

0:00 Introduction/Background
1:58 Faith and Identity
3:11 Turning Point and Parental Support
6:36 Supporting LGBTQ Members Who Leave
14:01 BYU Honor Code Office
16:11 Religious Policy and Universal Standards
20:00 Celestial Kingdom Questions and Future Doctrine
34:28 Elder Clark Gilbert’s Call
39:10 Radical Acceptance and Social Work Philosophy
41:07 Gather Conference and Support Organizations
46:36 Accusations of Complicity
49:48 Social Work Training and Church History
54:22 Listening to Individual Stories

Check out LDS Faith Journeys website.