Lead Through Strengths

If you lead through the CliftonStrengths talent theme of Analytical, (or you know someone who does), this is the episode for you!

The Analytical talent theme is driven by logic, evidence, and clarity. People with this strength are naturally objective, questioning, data-driven, and numbers-oriented.

At its core, Analytical is about understanding how things actually work. These individuals instinctively look for patterns, causes, and proof. They don't accept ideas at face value. They test them.

Analytical thinkers often describe themselves as scientific, skeptical, and dispassionate.

What motivates them most is reliable information. They love facts, evidence, and discovering patterns in data. They feel energized when ideas can be supported, measured, and verified.

When Analytical is operating at its best, it brings grounded reasoning and thoughtful precision to any situation. This strength helps simplify complexity, think through multiple variables, and approach decisions logically and objectively.

Analytical talent often shows up through roles like scientist, observer, measurer, fact finder, or logician.

These individuals provide clarity when situations feel confusing. They slow things down just enough to ensure decisions are based on reality, not assumptions. Their thinking builds trust because others know conclusions are backed by evidence.

To close, here's a simple 5-minute experiment to try in the next 24 hours…

Choose one decision you're facing. Write down the facts you know, the facts you need, and one assumption you might be making.

Then gather just one missing piece of information before deciding.

Notice how clarity increases as evidence replaces uncertainty.

Well, that's a wrap for today's episode.

What small action can you take to show up at your best, given where you're starting today?

If you lead through the CliftonStrengths talent theme of Adaptability, (or you know someone who does), this is the episode for you!

The Adaptability talent theme thrives in the present moment. People with this strength are naturally flexible, responsive, spontaneous, and grounded in what's happening right now.

At their core, Adaptability is about flow. These individuals are wired to adjust, shift, and respond as circumstances change. Instead of resisting unpredictability, they lean into it and find opportunity inside it.

They often describe themselves as easygoing, agreeable, present, and in the moment.

What motivates them most is the chance to respond to real-time needs. They enjoy new challenges, spontaneity, and environments that allow them to pivot quickly. Predictability and rigid plans tend to drain their energy.

When Adaptability is operating at full strength, it brings calm responsiveness and real-time problem solving to any situation. This talent allows someone to follow the lead of change, adjust quickly, and stay productive even when the unexpected happens.

Adaptability often shows up through roles like first responder, early adopter, accommodator, or follower.

These individuals shine when circumstances shift. While others may freeze or resist, Adaptability steps forward, grounded and ready, meeting the moment exactly as it is.

To close, here's a simple 5-minute experiment to try in the next 24 hours…

The next time something unexpected changes your plans, pause and ask: What opportunity just appeared that wasn't here before?

Then act on one small adjustment that uses the change to your advantage.

Well, that's a wrap for today's episode. What small action can you take to show up at your best, given where you're starting today?

If you lead through the CliftonStrengths talent theme of Activator, (or you know someone who does), this is the episode for you!

The Activator talent theme is fueled by motion, urgency, and decisive energy. People with this strength are naturally action-oriented, dynamic, influential, and initiating.

At their core, Activators are wired to start. They don't wait for perfect conditions. They create momentum by taking the first step. Their instinct is simple and powerful: act now, adjust later.

Activators often describe themselves as fast, catalytic, propulsive, and impatient.

What drives them most is the opportunity to turn ideas into reality. They thrive when they can initiate, instigate, and get things moving. Waiting drains them. Starting energizes them.

When Activator is in its strongest state, it brings a surge of energy to people and projects. This strength delivers urgency, instant momentum, and the courage to take risks.

Activators naturally step into roles like catalyst, starter, originator, and influencer.

They are often the spark that turns discussion into action. While others are still evaluating options, Activators are already testing the path forward. Their willingness to move first often unlocks progress for everyone else.

To close, here's a simple 5-minute experiment to try in the next 24 hours…

Choose one idea you've been thinking about but haven't started. Take a single visible action toward it today. Send the email. Draft the outline. Make the call.

Notice how quickly your energy rises once movement begins. Activators often discover that action itself is their greatest source of clarity.

Well, that's a wrap for today's episode. What small action can you take to show up at your best, given where you're starting today?

If you lead through the CliftonStrengths talent theme of Achiever, (or you know someone who does), this is the episode for you!

The Achiever talent theme is all about drive, productivity, and forward motion. People with this strength are naturally diligent, ambitious, and self-motivated.

At their core, Achievers are wired to accomplish. They're energized by doing, finishing, and progressing. Their internal engine runs on goals, tasks, and measurable movement. They don't wait for motivation. They generate it from within.

Achievers often describe themselves as driven, intense, productive, independent, and diligent.

What fuels them most is the opportunity to work toward something meaningful. Completion is satisfying. Progress is energizing. And the next goal is always calling their name.

When Achiever is operating at full power, it brings remarkable value to any environment. This strength delivers stamina, pace, follow-through, and energy.

Achievers often become the pacesetters on a team. Their natural rhythm pulls projects forward. Their diligence keeps things moving. And their consistent output builds trust because others know they'll finish what they start.

They often step into roles like producer, doer, completer, or finisher.

You can count on them when momentum matters. When there's work to be done, Achievers don't hesitate. They lean in.

To close, here's a simple 5-minute experiment to try in the next 24 hours…

Pick one task you've been postponing. Set a five-minute timer. Work on it with full focus until the timer ends.

Notice what happens internally. Does your energy rise once you begin? Do you feel momentum kick in? Achievers often unlock motivation through action, not before it.

Well, that's a wrap for today's episode. What small action can you take to show up at your best, given where you're starting today?

---

PS: where are Lisa and Brea? Well, Lisa wrote this and Andy did the voiceover. Lisa is on break with her rock band, Spiral Mischief. So Andy will be hosting your CliftonStrengths 34 series.

In this special season finale, we're closing out Season 10 with a fun, reflective conversation inspired by a few of our favorite things. As we take a short pause from the podcast, we share some of our favorite strengths-based questions, hands-on tools, and learning approaches that actually stick. This episode is full of ideas you can use right away, whether you're a coach, leader, or strengths enthusiast.

🌟

Work With Us!

BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!

LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

Takeaways

● Turn existing team themes into Strengths conversations You don't need a brand-new initiative to apply strengths. Take whatever theme your organization is already focused on—innovation, change readiness, bravery—and ask how each person's strengths help them show up in that area. This simple shift creates deeper, more engaging conversations.

● Start with the individual, not the Team Grid Team grids can be interesting, but they're not the magic. The real power comes from individuals knowing, owning, and intentionally using their strengths. A well-balanced grid doesn't matter if people aren't actually applying their talents.

● Less can be more when learning Strengths Focusing on just one strength at a time helps people learn faster and apply more confidently. Exploring domains, execution, and collaboration through a single theme makes strengths development feel accessible instead of overwhelming.

● Engagement increases when learning is tactileUsing tools like strengths card decks adds a physical, interactive element that draws people into the conversation. When participants can touch, move, and discuss strengths together, learning goes deeper and lasts longer.

Take Action

● Try a Strengths Lens QuestionTake a theme your team is already talking about and ask: How do my strengths help me with this? Start with a short reflection or discussion and notice how the conversation shifts.

● Choose One Strength to Focus OnPick one theme from your Top 5 and pay attention to how it shows up at work and in life. Name it, notice it, and practice using it with intention.

● Experiment with a New Strengths ToolIf you facilitate strengths conversations, try incorporating a card deck or prompt-based activity to create more engagement and deeper dialogue.

○ The CS Strengths Deck from StrengthsPlayground is a versatile, hands-on tool for strengths conversations, prompts, and exploration.

🎧 As we wrap Season 10, the podcast is taking a short pause—but we're still here and would love to stay connected. Reach out, explore the resources we shared, and keep strengths flowing while we're away!

Let's Connect!

● LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook

● BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

AI-Generated Transcript

Lisa:

I'm Lisa.

Brea:

I'm Brea.

Lisa:

and we are here in our moment to close out season 10. Brea, it's a wrap.

Brea:

It's a wrap, and not a delicious spinach wrap or a tomato basil wrap, but wrap like we're just gonna take a pause, take a break. Yeah.

Lisa:

So as a listener, you're going to hear a pause for a minute, and we thought we could wrap up the season and do a little bit of a favorite thing style.

Brea:

These are a few of my favorite things.

Lisa:

Oh, that is such a perfect cue up for just the things that I adore, the best things. So we can talk about the best things in the strengths world. Oh, good setup. Good melody. Brea, yay.

Let's talk. Let's do just a best question, a favorite question, a question you love in that and when I say question, it can be a prompt question, a reflection, something that gets a great conversation going on the topic of strengths. Do you want to start? Or do you want me to start?

Brea:

Go for it.

Lisa:

Oh, okay. I love working with a team and getting a theme, because teams always have a thing, you know, they always have an initiative or a word or something that they're trying to get everyone to think about often. It could be something simple, like, oh, everyone is talking innovation. We want to be more innovative. It's our theme for the year. Or maybe they have a big change, and it's about being, change, ready. Change ready. Change ready. And it's the thing they're hearing all over the place, or something like, you know, the team has been talking about how to be brave during some difficult situation. So it's taking any theme and then using it with a lens of strengths to have a conversation. So if you took innovation, it would be like, how do your strengths help you be innovative? How do your strengths help you feel change ready? Or, how do your strengths allow you to feel brave, like you could take any of those examples and just turn it into a Strengths question, and it is amazing how well it goes over. And it's just really simple. It's taking something that the organization or the team is already trying to do, that bang, that drum, over and over and over again, and trying to get people to think. But because the strengths lens is so different from what, where they're usually thinking, it brings it into a whole different conversation. So I love that approach.

Brea:

Yes, I love it. I mean, it's really the core of strength application, right? I mean, that's what it's all about, is looking at things through your particular unique lens of strengths, and that's where your superpower lies. You know? Why don't we do it more? I know we just don't. We don't. So what a practice to to engage in?

Lisa:

Yeah, nice when it's simple and easy, also, like it's really easy to come up with questions like that based on what's already relevant. So a lot of times what's simple can be a lot of mental effort, but that doesn't take much to come up with this question, these kind of questions,

Brea

I love it. I love it. Anyone can do it. And the beauty is, each individual person knows their own strengths the best if they don't have all of the knowledge that an expert would have, they still can, can ask those questions of themselves, and that exploration is really where the learning and the discovery happens. And that's the most important thing, not that you have all the right textbook answers, but that you're using your strengths and applying them with intention. So that's perfect.

Lisa

You're so right. That's so well said. That's perfect. That's what this is all about, is getting somebody to explore their own and remember that they have the superpower that they could aim at this thing, and they just hadn't been thinking about it like that. Yeah.

Brea

You know, it reminds me of a lot of times when I'm invited to do a workshop or an activity with a team. They want to do all the things, you know, they ask for the moon, and I'm like, Okay, well, maybe we start with this grain of sand. You know, it's always, always difficult to try to manage expectations, but one of the things that people want is Team grids. They want to look at the team grid. They want to see where the talents lie, where the gaps are, where they should hire to fill gaps. You know, all these well intentioned thoughts about how to apply strengths, but what people forget is that it's not the talents that show up on the team grid. It's. The squares that are filled and not filled, that gives us the most incredible data, because the talent that's shown is actually a person, and if the person that's represented on the grid is not aware of their talents, if they don't know what their talents are, and use them with intention, then it doesn't matter what the grid shows, right? Yeah, people get so hung up on what, what does our grid look like, and what do we need to do to get a well represented grid when actually the data shows and common sense tells us, start with your people. Make sure that the talent that shows up on the grid is actually being well used, that people know what their strengths are and how to use them, and that's what makes a strong team. So that's where you start. You start with the individual

Lisa

that would be an interesting activity there, looking at your grit, looking at your own and saying, if these represent my instincts and preferences in, what areas Am I not allowing those to come out in a productive way?

Brea

Yeah, I just was having a conversation with a leader yesterday. He's in a regional management position and and I asked him to focus on empathy, so he had one talent to focus on in between our meetings. That was his homework, was to just kind of pay attention. Name it, claim it, aim it when you can, but just tell me where, where did it show up for you? Where did you notice it? Where was it helpful? Where was it not helpful? And he started off immediately saying, well, it doesn't really come up at work. I think it only works in my personal relationships. And then he gave me, like, a million examples of how he saw it at home. And so, of course, you know, the coach and me circles back around and like, okay, let's talk about work. Like you said, it doesn't really show up. This is what I heard. I heard that it actually was showing up a lot. He just didn't recognize it, and there weren't opportunities for him to use it, to lead with it, to be intentional about it. So how it was showing up at work, he was either subconsciously blocking because it wasn't valued at work. So he had to kind of shut it down, you know, or there just weren't a lot of opportunities for it to really take the lead and be valuable. It was just more responsive. Like empathy is, you know, it's very receptive in nature. So that's that was kind of coming up, but he didn't really see it as useful at work. So how many times are our talents wanting to show up, wanting to be used with intention, but either we or someone else is shutting it down or blocking it out and not allowing it to contribute in the way that it can, which hopefully will add value, not only to the team or the outcome, but also just to our lives.

Lisa

Yes, I love that. I think you've also mentioned this little snippet right there about one thing. You had them focus on one thing. And I think you've told me before about an exercise where you really have done a lot of things in your work where you get people to focus on one talent theme. Can you say a little bit more about an exercise you like in a team environment

Brea

Yes. Okay, so this is something that I do. It's a little different than most people. Actually. I've never heard of someone else doing this when I'm doing workshops, when I'm doing intro workshops, especially instead of starting with the full 34 or even the top five, it's just a lot. It's a lot of information in short amount of time. It's a lot of bowling balls for people to hold, right? So I just say, look, let's pick one theme. Pick your number one. Pick you know, any of your top five that you want to focus on, and focus on that theme today and as we go through the whole workshop, or as we are in our coaching session or whatever, it's just so much easier to learn the concepts of let's take domains. For example, just because you don't have any executing themes Brea doesn't mean that you can't get things done, right? You just use your other themes to do it, like we can talk in concept, but so much easier to be like, okay, look, communication. You're number one. It's an influencing theme. How do you use your communication to execute? Boom, right? That's so much easier to understand when you're thinking through one theme throughout the day, and you get to explore it in all the different concepts of strengths learning and strengths development. So I think less is more 100% when we're learning new things, and the positive feedback that I get from clients is we loved just having one thing to focus on. Learning and doing different exercises and activities around that one theme,

Lisa

Bold move. I love also how it's clear, it's simple. And also, if they say, okay, and I have these other ones now, how do we incorporate the other? Incorporate the other ones? You have the opportunity for reinforcement and keep the relationship going, and to help them not make it the flavor of the year, the flavor of the month, thing that happened, and then they go home and forget about it.

Brea

Yeah, well, and that's the beauty, is that when you know, when we're in a workshop, everybody's choosing their own theme, but we're covering a lot of ground. We're still talking about all the things that we would talk about in an intro workshop. We're learning all the things that we would learn. We're just thinking about it through one lens, so at the end of the workshop, they can go back to their other top four and do all of the same exercises that we did at the workshop, just through their other themes, like I've given them everything they need, and they understand it because they've actually done the work through the lens of one theme. So they've put it into practice. Now they can go and apply it on their own with the other themes. No problem. You know, right?

Lisa

Yeah, you're equipping them with the tools to now have, yes, much richer conversations.

Brea

I love it. What about you? What? What's a secret sauce or a favorite thing or something that goes over really well when you're working with groups.

Lisa

So a favorite thing I have lately is using the CS strengths decks. So the for those of you who've never seen this or heard of it, Nick and call over at strengths playground.com they have these strengths decks. I buy multiples of these, and there are prompt cards, and there are talent cards. And I love these for many reasons, because you can use them in 100 ways. I mean, it is so easy to be creative with them, because you can go down blind spots. You can go down bright spots. You can do the great side of a talent. You can do the shadow side of a talent. The way that people get to have this tactile element while they're having conversation, it's just so incredible to watch what happens in the room, the way that people process them. They're pretty simple, the definitions on the cards, but because the prompts become central, and then the conversations that riff off of it, and then how they use their talents to describe I feel like it creates an environment where you have to break it up. It's one of those exercises that it almost always feels like you're stopping it early on people, because they're just so into touching the cards, having the conversation, hearing someone else, moving it around, flipping them over. And they're so into it because of the way it's engaging them. It's it's just such a great tool. Because of that, I've been loving it because I just, I love exercises where you're like, I'm going to have to break in and be the person who transitions it, versus half the group's done and half the group's not, and you're trying to play out when to move on and when to not. And this is one where they could just talk infinitely, and the cards must make it so easy for them to be in that mode, because it happens every time, no matter how I use the cards.

Brea

That's amazing, awesome. Love that. Shout out. Shout out to the guys over at strengths playground. Go check it out. We'll put the link in the show notes so you can have an easy access to go buy your own decks.

Lisa

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well, hey, as we're wrapping up the wrap up, and we want to make sure that we're on pause, but we're not paused in terms of interacting with listeners. Let's keep the conversations and or strengths learning flowing for people while we're paused.

Brea

Yes, okay, so we're wrapping season 10. We're taking a pause from the podcast, but we're not pausing our businesses. So you can find me at Brea roper.com you can find me on email Hello at Brea roper.com or the strengths hub.com you can come and join me and other coaches there. How about you, Lisa,

Lisa

I definitely say connect with me on LinkedIn, if you're not already lead through strengths.com, and then come to if you're a coach, come to tools for coaches. It's definitely a Strengths community hangout. Focus on your business kind of place. If you are a coach leading things, if you're a team leading things, then definitely stay connected on LinkedIn or go over in the top navigation of my site. I also have a link called 34 strengths, and there's so much it leads to so many pages and resources. It would be a great start to use to dig in with your team to take things further while you're. Are waiting for more free resources to come your way. Awesome.

Brea

And if you want to do business together, I would love to come to you. So I'm definitely still in the travel phase of my business. So if you need need someone to come on site do a Keynote or workshop, I would love not only to stay in touch, but to come your way. Feel free to reach out, and we can make that happen.

Lisa

I bet you could even get Brea to sing that in her version of a few of my favorite things.

Brea

These are a few of my favorite things. Like gosh, I love it so much. Maybe we might even do a little dance, you know, like sound of music. I just kind of love it. I kind of love it.

Lisa

I can tell it'd be easy to go do into that. Is that the same one with an umbrella? Okay, I'm imagining her being in Switzerland with an umbrella, is that the same musical, or is this a different one?

Brea

I'm literally going through like, every scene in my head right now, like a view finder, like, click, click, click. I don't see any umbrellas. No, that's Mary Poppins, maybe that you're thinking of, also played by Julie Andrews, the iconic Julie Andrews,

Lisa

I don't know what I'm missing. Last one I saw was the teen or Tina Turner musical and a beautiful noise with Neil Diamond

Brea

Icon, icon, yeah. Okay. Sound of Music. If you love sound of music, sound of music as much as I do, please. Let's be friends. Come find me. Let's be friends.

Lisa

All right, everyone, well, we'll see you around. We adore you. Keep strengths flowing, and we'll see you until next time,

Brea

Until next time. Adios.

Let's Connect!

● LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook

● BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

In this episode, we dive into the often-overwhelming world of building a tech stack for your coaching business! We know the thought of sorting through all the technology options can make your eyes glaze over, but fear not! We break it down into manageable pieces, discussing everything from accounting software to payment processors, calendaring systems, and even email marketing tools. Adding tech to your process should save you time and money, not cause you headaches and cost you cash. Our goal is to help you streamline your processes so you can focus on what you do best – coaching!

Are you ready to take your coaching business to the next level? Listen in as we share our personal experiences with different tools and provide recommendations that can help you build a solid tech foundation for a thriving coaching practice.

🌟

Work With Us!

BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!

LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

Takeaways

● Define the Role of Your Tech Stack: Before diving into the myriad of tools available, it's crucial to understand the specific roles each piece of technology will play in your business. By treating your tech stack like a team of employees, you can make informed decisions that align with your business goals. This approach helps to reduce overwhelm and ensures that each tool serves a clear purpose.

● Streamline Your Processes: Adding tech to your process should save you time and money, not cause you headaches and cost you cash. That's why integrating tech can have a great impact! For example, choosing a calendaring system that connects to your payment processor allows clients to pay at the time of booking. This not only eliminates the hassle of chasing payments later, but also enhances the customer experience by making it easy for them to do business with you.

● Choose the Right Tools for Your Needs: Select tools that fit your current business stage. If you're just starting out, a simple spreadsheet might suffice for managing client relationships instead of investing in a complex CRM system. Remember, the goal is to make the tools work for you, and only pay for what you need. Choose tools that will genuinely save you time and effort.

Take Action

● Evaluate Your Tech Needs: Reflect on the specific jobs your tech stack needs to accomplish in your coaching business, such as marketing, sales, or delivery of services. This will help you make informed decisions about which tools to invest in.

● Choose a Payment Processor: Set up a payment processor (we recommend Stripe) to streamline your payment collection process. Ensure it integrates with your scheduling system to allow clients to pay when they book appointments.

● Implement an Online Scheduling System: Tools like Calendly, TidyCal can manage your appointment setting, communications, and follow-ups efficiently. Book Like A Boss is a powerful all-in-one that also allows you to build landing pages, sell digital products, and more!

● Explore Email Marketing Options: If your current tools (like your website or scheduling app) can handle your email needs, keep it simple. But if you need a dedicated email marketing platform, consider options like Flodesk, Emma, or Kit (formerly known as ConvertKit, affiliate link).

● Our other shoutouts:

○ Accounting: Quickbooks Online

○ Website: WordPress, Squarespace, Showit, Book Like A Boss

○ Web/Email Domain: Domain.com, Google Workspace

○ CRM: Hubspot

○ Marketing: BombBomb

○ Graphic Design: Canva

🎧 Listen now and let me know your thoughts! What tools are you using in your tech stack?

Let's Connect!

● LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook

● BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

AI-Generated Transcript

Lisa: I'm Lisa.

Brea: I'm Brea.

Lisa: And today we are talking about the tech stack in your coaching business.

Brea: Yes. Okay, so before people's eyes glaze over when we talk about all the tech and all the details, this is such a good topic because we need it. You need to get these systems and these processes in place in order to be more free to do what you do best, you know? So I'm so excited to talk about this. I've learned so many things the hard way.

Lisa: Now you are making me think of a song because Tech Stack makes me think of nerdy. So I'm thinking of like the band Devo wearing those nerdy hats and the song Whip It. Like you got to whip yourself into shape. Shape it up. Like, yeah. Whip it good. Yeah, that's totally it. And you said freedom and that I think that album was called Freedom of Choice. So it is all coming up with the nerdery right there.

Brea: That is so funny. I don't think I've ever heard that song in its entirety, but I recognize it from a movie with Kate Hudson. I don't remember which one, some rom-com, probably with her and Matthew McConaughey, but there's a scene where they're dancing to it. So I understand the reference. I get it. Okay. Okay.

Lisa: Well, it'll make it a little more fun. Let's do it. Let's do it. Now we move into the exciting topic of things like accounting software.

Brea: Yes. So we don't need to define this, okay? But I do want to just like set a little foundation. I think when we talk tech, when we talk systems, processes, things like this, it's important, at least for me, it's important to remember what is the job of the tech stack, the thing in the stack, right? What is the job that I'm trying to accomplish? Is it marketing? Is it sales? Is it delivery of your product or your service? Is it scaling? Is it, you know, what is the job that you're trying to give it. So I like to think of them almost as, you know, an employee or a contractor. Like, what's the role? And then that helps me to make the decisions instead of just being totally overwhelmed with all the details of the specificity of things. You know, hopefully that might help.

Lisa: I agree. I think it's good decision criteria too because a lot of people talk about getting subscription fatigue because most of these are recurring subscriptions. Then if you look at it as a contractor and you say, if I paid a person to do this manually, what would that look like in the business? How would the cost compare? How would the service compare? How would the results compare? And sometimes you could have a human doing these things. examples, like if we start with accounting, you can, if you have five customers for the year when you're starting off and it's a side hustle and you don't really have much business, unless you just want to learn the software, you could use a spreadsheet and just give it to your accountant. So you could use something you're already paying for, like your Google Workspace or whatever you're using where you would have a spreadsheet available to you. So there are times when you could do the on the cheap version or use a human version until you get into the recurring software.

Brea: Yeah, I love it.

Lisa: What do you use for accounting?

Brea: Oh gosh, do we have to start with accounting? We'll just get it over with, you know. Well, in the tenure of my business, is that the right word? I've used spreadsheets, okay, so been there, done that, and if that's you, no judgment. I use QuickBooks, QuickBooks Online, yeah, because that's what my accountant uses, so. Okay, me too. I don't do accounting. I pay someone to do that for me.

Lisa: Okay. Me too. I use QuickBooks online. Some people use Xero. Some people use FreshBooks. There are other things out there, but QuickBooks, at least in the US, that seems to be what accountants prefer. You could just give them access. They get access to the back end of it. It makes life pretty clean and clear and simple.

Brea: Yeah, I actually really love using Stripe for my payment processor, which is not the accounting software, but adjacent.

Lisa: Yeah, let's get into payment processing. So, okay, you use Stripe. I also use Stripe. I think Most small business owners starting up training, coaching, speaking businesses, you'll probably want to go over and have a Stripe account because it integrates with just about every software. So if you're like, what in the world is a payment processor? What are you guys talking about? It's essentially somebody takes a few percentage points and it allows you to accept credit cards and have that money electronically delivered to your business bank account. Kind of easy way to say it. And Stripe connects to, like, if you find any software out there that allows you to sell through it, like a very good example is your calendaring system. If you're a coach, especially a one-on-one coach, you really want a calendar system that allows you to accept payment as they book. Because then you don't have to spend a lot of your delivery hours chasing payments. They just pay when they book. So those will often be, we can talk about the calendaring systems next, but payment processor, if you have Stripe, for example, connected to your calendaring system, now you're done.

Brea: Yeah, that's right. You know, I think Stripe is quickly becoming kind of a gold standard. It integrates with anything that I've tried to integrate it with. It allows me to take Apple Pay and Google Pay and credit cards and debit cards and ACH. And there are so many international currencies that it processes. I mean, there's so much you can do. The thing that I love most about Stripe and probably the feature that I use most is the ability to create payment links. So when I don't want to do a full invoice, I just want to take a credit card really fast, I can do that. I can create a custom link for a custom amount and send it to someone and then boom, it's done. You can also use the payment links on your website or other places where you want to have a button for people to click. You know, they click the button and then boom, it goes straight to the payment page and you know, it's done. Yeah. Right on. But other payment processors would be like PayPal or Square or Venmo or Zelle or that's what we're talking about. Yes.

Lisa: Yes, yes. Okay. Let's talk about calendaring because if you are a one-on-one coach, really, you've got to be able to accept payments as you book. It's just, it just makes financial sense to have someone pay when you book. Yes, yes, yes. Just do it. And if you don't believe me now, when you're fully booked, you'll believe me and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm chasing payments. I did not want to be a collector. Okay, so that's one element of calendaring. If you're a speaker or a trainer, you want your calendaring or a one-on-one coach for things like discovery calls, prospect calls. Pre-event calls, things like that. You really want an online calendaring system. Some people use a VA or a personal assistant to do their calendaring, and some people do prefer that. But they are so sophisticated now. I mean, you can tell it, I take these kind of calls on this day of the week. And only from this hour to this hour, but on this kind of call, I take them on this day of the week. It's really cool what they do. So any thoughts on calendaring before we talk about which technologies we use?

Brea: Yeah, I mean, I agree. If you are not Not that you have to always sync up your payment with scheduling, but if you haven't done that at all, you know, if you're not taking advantage of that, it's such a great way to make it easy for the customer and easy for you. So when I think of tech stack, any tech stacks, it's always how can I improve this process for the customer? How can I make it easy for them to do business with me and easy for them to pay me? It's just the worst when you've done all the work to get the sale and then they can't find the cash register anywhere. It happens so many times on your website or whatever. Go here to schedule, and then go here to pay, and then go here to do this, and go here to do that. And it's just make it easy. Just do it all, all together. I think that's so, so good.

Lisa: I mean, have you ever gone to a store? This is what you're making me think of. You Can't Find the Cash Register made me think of when you have an item in your hand, and then you see, oh my gosh, the line is so long at the register. That's going to take 45 minutes. That barrier is too high. And that is the same thing as when They have to go back and forth with you or your human, even if you have a personal assistant, that might seem cool. But what if they have to go back and forth 6 times to find a time that works versus being able to click? So I feel like that's sending them into that line with 45-minute wait to check out.

Brea: I love it. Yep, I love it.

Lisa: All right, what do you use today?

Brea: So I still use Calendly. I've used Calendly almost the entire time that I've been in business. Every now and then, go check something else out to see, you know, can I get rid of this, whatever it is, $12, $13 a month? Like, can I get rid of that? Because TidyCal is $20 one time or, you know, for a lifetime or something like that. But I always come back to Calendly. It just has improved so much and has a lot of those opportunities to customize like what you were saying. It does everything, even like group events now. It's not just the one on one. They have grown into being able to schedule a workshop. If I wanted to do a public workshop, people can go in and buy one seat. So, really, there's nothing that I need that it doesn't do. So, I'm a Calendly girl. How about you?

Lisa: Awesome. They keep stepping their game up. I was a Calendly girl for most of the years of my business. I currently use TidyCal. And I've used Acuity. Acuity was my first one and it's very solid. And I think as far as integrations, Calendly integrates with the most other software, so it can make your life much simpler that way. But I've been really happy with TidyCal as well. So I would say any of the three of those are great. And there are several more that are absolutely solid as well. Just get one. Get one that integrates with the software that you use. get one that accepts payments, but you're right. I love to experiment with one-time fee software, and if you're not familiar with AppSumo, A-P-P-S-U-M-O. Come on, guess. They have a lot, like TidyCal and BreezeDoc and a bunch of these pieces of software. BreezeDoc is for signatures. Instead of buying DocuSign, if you don't have a high volume in things, they have a lot of software that has one-time fees or a lifetime fee or a low fee and they just basically have these deals out on AppSumo. You could waste a lot of time just buying cool software, so there's of course that to look out for.

Brea: Guilty. I know so many years ago, my introduction to AppSumo was through Book Like a Boss, obviously a scheduling app. And at the time, it just wasn't where I needed it to be. But now it's actually really great, you know. But my Calendly is just it's set up. It's so sophisticated. I've got everything I need. I just can't imagine. switching, you know? But yeah, that's another one you could check out is Book Like a Boss. Especially if you don't want to get into the whole website game, Book Like a Boss allows you to create landing pages for different products. And it's super, super affordable. So it does more than what a normal scheduling app would do for a fraction of the price.

Lisa: Cool. Yeah. Well, let's take that mention to just go into websites, because there are people in two camps. I'm of a camp, you need a website. And it's fine, like anything that you could use what you just described, Book Like a Boss, and you could go get coachjohn.com and redirect it to your Book Like a Boss page. And I would still consider that having a web presence. But you need a domain name that you can give a person on the street that you meet, go to this web page, and it can redirect them to something scrappy that you've made through that, or Coach Accountable, or even Canva. I have a template for people to make a website on Canva to have something that you can get up within a couple of hours. So it doesn't have to be that hard. Get something. But it does look so much more professional to have a real domain name with a real email address. And by real, you can hear my quotes and my voice. Have that domain name. Because especially to corporate clients, this matters. It makes it look like you're a professional versus a rookie. And I think that is important. So personally, that's my vote. I use WordPress. That is not the simple way. That is hiring a designer and doing the thing. Today, if I started over, I would probably pick Squarespace today, but you can do Squarespace, Weebly, Wix. but I do use WordPress and if you want to do fancy things on your site then the amount of plugins that are available is really incredible and it does give you some mega power to be using a WordPress site. What do you use, Brea?

Brea: I found a home in Squarespace. Squarespace has really evolved a lot where they have You can do email campaigns now. I actually purchase my Google Workspace. Through Squarespace, I'm able to purchase that Google email, hello at briaroper.com. And I think that's what you're talking about, right? When you say like you need a real email, like an email that matches your domain. Like not a Gmail. Yeah, totally. I mean, I think, yeah, we all get that. I, especially when I see Yahoo or AOL, you know, it's just like, like, that's just not a real, it's not a real business, you know? So get your domain name and you can do all of that through Squarespace. You probably pay a little bit more of a premium because they're handling it all, but it's just easier to not have to buy your domain over here from, you know, GoDaddy or domain.com or whatever. And your Google workspace and you know have all these small bills. I just do it all through Squarespace. So it's easy

Lisa: I bet you inspired a lot of people who don't want to handle all the invoices, but also they don't have their email address because it seems intimidating. Like I have to buy a domain. What's a host? What's a registrar? How do I go? How do I set up my website? And then how do I do all these connections? And I'm going to have to spend a half a day trying to get my email to work and be able to receive it. And can I get it on my phone? And how is it going to go down? The execution of it all is so intimidating. I think for people to hear what you just said is possible will make people feel like, oh, okay, good. Somebody's making it easy. Yeah.

Brea: You know, another platform that I love is ShowIt. Are you familiar with ShowIt? just mildly. Okay. It's so easy. It's drag and drop like Canva or like Wix. It's easy for beginners like that, but it pairs with WordPress for blogging, which WordPress, I mean, it just is too sophisticated for me, you know, but like you said, it has so much power. It does so many things and their blogs are excellent through WordPress. So ShowIt pairs with WordPress for blogging. And it's just so pretty. It's so like the templates are just, in my opinion, so far and above any of the other platforms, including Squarespace. So big shout out to ShowIt. ShowIt.

Lisa: Nice. OK, so since you're bringing up the platforms that are easy to work with and also have beautiful templates. You made me think of people's comments on Flowdesk as their email marketing software. I love Flowdesk, yeah. And I am a Kit user, formerly called ConvertKit, and I love it. I'm an affiliate for Kit. I think it is great software. I use it. I have funnels. I make landing pages. I have a light e-commerce. You can sell digital products on there. It's just really easy to use. The automations are beautiful. I'm really into automations. As you know, if you've heard Brea call me the evergreen queen, I have years worth of emails that come out and that's all set through these really easy visual automations that Kit allow. So I'm into Kit for email marketing. I know you are not an email marketing gal. Do you have an email marketing software outside of what you described in Squarespace?

Brea: Yeah, I mean, let's not forget that I have a background in marketing, so I've used plenty of things over the years. I just don't love it. So yeah, I think Flowdesk, love. There's also a smaller company out of Nashville called Emma, and I love it. It's super, super yummy and beautiful, like Flowdesk. And it's a smaller company that I love, you know, just love supporting. Supporting the small guys. Okay. HubSpot also comes to mind. It's not, you know, that might transition us into the CRM discussion, but HubSpot also does email marketing. Squarespace, you know, I use that too, so.

Lisa: MailerLite, Constant Contact, Active Campaign, Aweber. I mean, there are so many. I had, I'm not going to name it because I think it's terrible, but one that I used that was terrible And I guess this is what I'll throw out before we move topics is, yes, I love Kit. I have a lot of reasons to love Kit. I love that it lets you do all those extras, but in a very simple, streamlined way. And mostly it's just great at sending email and it makes it easy in the user face to figure it out so that it doesn't feel intimidating. But think about long-term. So some of these offer really good free trial or free levels. Kit has a free level that allows you to have up to 10,000 subscribers, but of course these free ones are de-featured. So for example, you can have one automation, one sequence, if you get on the free version of Kit, they give you a lot of subscribers. But for me, I have like 40 different automations running. So that's not, that obviously wouldn't work even if I had 10,000, you know, under 10,000. So look at them. They, they tend to all have tiers. So look how they do their pricing tiers and see if that feels like it will work for you.

Brea: Yeah. I want to stay on email just for a minute because, you know, everybody, everybody needs email marketing of some kind. Some things to consider might be using it to nurture your leads. dripping content that might be part of the different automations that you might do. Also reminding people about their events, which Calendly or your scheduler might do that as well. So you might not need a separate email marketing platform to email about the coaching package, you know, or the coaching events. So it's good to think, do I actually need a dedicated email marketing something, something, or can my website do it, right? Can my scheduling app do it? I don't know, that's where I've found I bought too many things and kind of spread myself too thin and I was able to streamline my process by utilizing things that I already had, you know?

Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. Love all of that. And if you can get what you need out of an all-in-one, there are very powerful all-in-ones, but a lot of times what I think will happen is what you're describing. Somebody's in Squarespace and they're like, hey, they don't bill themselves as an email marketing software. No one would go to them thinking, I'm doing my research on email marketing, but they find them because they're like, oh, I already have a a website here and they cover me for the basics. I think it's a great way to get started. And then also just in the back of your mind, have a plan. When I get to X number of subscribers or this level of sophistication with how I want to roll out a product, then I'm going to switch over and there will be switching costs because it's a pain in the rear. And you have to usually pay someone to do a bunch of migrations. And any time you switch, it'll be a pain. But it's OK. That's just that's the cost of growth. And it should be an exciting milestone, even though it's a frustrating project.

Brea: Yeah. Can I throw out one more email marketing adjacent? I love video. I love being on video. I love sending videos. And so I use something called BombBomb. which is video in your email and integrates with my Gmail. So I can, if I'm in my Gmail inbox, there's a little, a little bum bum button where I can just quickly add a video to the email. It can be either live, like it'll just turn on my camera and I talk into the email and then boom, I send it. So there's no uploading. There's no downloading. There's no, you know, any of that exporting and all the things. It's just there's a little button that's in my Gmail. So if I want to use my strengths of communication and and talk to them, I can do that. And then also I can set up email marketing sequences and do all the things, you know, but just. With video. So I'm a huge huge fan.

Lisa: I love that for Walking someone through a proposal feels totally custom like here. I'm gonna send you this document, but I'm going to talk you through it and There's a technique out there where they have a whiteboard or something and it has your name I'm gonna say that's my favorite thing to do So that and the thumbnail they know this video is specific to me this video doesn't go out in every email this bit I made this video for you So, that one definitely gets me. When I see a video, even if I think the product has nothing to do with me, if it says Lisa somewhere on it, I know they did it for me, then I'll give them that time of day and I'll watch it for a couple minutes.

Brea: Right. Why wouldn't you? Absolutely. I really do think that especially if your strengths are good on video, I mean, you can't sleep on it. It's such a tool for you. And there are so many ways for you to use it in your business that you're not using it right now. So this is appealing to those of you who love video and are strong on video. There are so many more ways that you can you can apply it. And email is one of those ways that we just don't think about. I would much rather receive a 20 second video from someone saying, it was so great to get coffee with you. Thank you so much. Seeing that person that you just networked with and had a great interaction with, right? getting an email from them that said, hey, it was great meeting you. Have a nice day. Or re-experiencing in just a quick 20-second video, you're brought back to that conversation that you had or that exchange that you had. You see their face, you feel their energy, and it's so much stronger, you know? It's so much stronger. Sold. And it's faster.

Lisa: Yeah, sold. Yeah. OK, I'm done. You're selling me on this. I don't use BonBon currently, but now I'm sold. It's so good. Well, let's talk about one. This feels like the final foundational, most kind of critical path is talking, and no, I'm not even going to say CRM. I'm going to say platforms for memberships, courses, communities, because I know you're excited about that, Brea, and it is, more likely critical than CRM systems, even though people will obsess over those from day one. So let's make sure we talk memberships, courses, communities. What do you like for hosting?

Brea: Oh, well, I'm a Mighty Networks girl. I mean, from almost the beginning, when Gina launched it, I just, I love it. And they continue to upgrade, continue to add features. Every week I'm getting emails with, hey, we just added this, and now you can do this. So I love Mighty Networks.

Lisa: Cool, cool. And stay tuned, everyone, because you'll hear about Brea's Strengths Hub, which is hosted on Mighty Networks.

Brea: Yeah, that's right. In another episode though, yeah?

Lisa: Yeah, oh yeah, we totally, that needs its own episode. Of course you can use Circle, of course some people use Facebook groups. I host my courses on ThriveLearn, so you might have heard Brea say the word ThriveCart, and ThriveCart is a software that allows you to have a cart system and a full-on e-commerce, so if you're selling If you're selling a digital product that's more than like, here's your one page PDF, I think having a more robust cart system and delivery system is useful. They also have a module called Thrive Learn, which is their learning management portal. So you can build a course in Thrive Learn and host it there. And then you can have your checkout process through Thrive Cart, the cart system, your checkout page, a sales page, however you want to do it. It includes those things Brio was talking about, upsells if you want to do those. I've been Definitely satisfied with ThriveCart and ThriveLearn, but I also would say it's quirky. If you're listening to this and you know me and you're like, oh, I want to get into that, reach out to me and I'll think through some of the pros and cons to give you. It's not quite as intensive as WordPress, but it's more like that. It's effortful software compared to some where it's like, I click this button and what I see is what the user sees and it's super easy. it's not that.

Brea: I love those kinds of things. That's my, that's my jam. Yeah. So we, we kind of threw out there CRM. If you don't know what that means, it stands for customer relationship management system, right? A CRM system or a CRM program or platform or whatever. But this is where, um, you do need a place to, To keep all of your people, you know, so you want a place where you see your pipeline? Visually, right what what is out there? What are you working on who are you talking to when was the last time you talked to a Previous customer, right? When when will you follow up with them next? I mean that's Having a system that helps you manage those relationships. That's what a CRM does I have used HubSpot, I've used other things like that, but I use Mighty Networks to do all of these things. Mighty Networks really is my all-in-one. It does my email marketing, it does my community building, it's where I store resources. I don't have a vault per se, but that would be my vault. There are things in there that people in the community can access, right? So it does all those things and it integrates with Zoom. It's just like, that's my all-in-one that I really, really love. So I'm excited to share more about that in another episode. But again, I think you don't have to, you might need to, or you might want to have unique tech for all of the different things, I've found that I enjoy having all those things in one place.

Lisa: Yeah, and you may or may not need this. The reason why I get on my rants about, hey look, don't obsess about your CRM before you have five clients because just stick it in a spreadsheet, you know? Like, or if you don't do one on one clients, so you don't have a giant list, like, for example, there were years when I had 15 active clients, it didn't sound like that many, but I would have 50 events for some of them each per year. But then it was more about event management, not so much about managing the individual customers. So it was very easy to use customer information and QuickBooks or tagging them in Kit, and I could get all the info I needed. And then the rest of it was just in Asana, where we did our project management. So you could have a very thriving business and depending on Whether you have high volume with a few number of customers or a lot of customers to keep up with, a lot of prospects to keep up with, then you sure, you know, you probably do need a CRM to prompt you. You can use Pipedrive, Keap, K-E-A-P, Zoho, HubSpot, GoHighLevel, Kajabi. So there are a lot of them to choose from.

Brea: Yeah. And again, remember, what's the job of the tech? So if a CRM is, is a system to manage your customer relationships, but you don't have any customers yet, you don't need a CRM, right? Or you only have five or 10, like you can manage those relationships without a very complicated and robust, but complex Salesforce, um, program. And expensive, by the way. So pay for what you need. Pay for what helps you. Pay for the things that save time, that save money for you in other places. But you don't need a CRM if you don't have a lot of relationships to manage. And you might be managing those relationships through email, right? So your email marketing might kind of serve as customer relationship management if the managing that you're doing is nurturing those relationships by dripping them content or by keeping them up to date in your email. but you're not planning on reaching out to them or making sales calls or things like that, you know, you don't need a CRM. You can just manage those relationships through email or, like I do, through the Mighty Network, you know. So just

Lisa: Let it become a need before the spend. Yeah, yeah. They all have helpful bits. I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year not using a CRM. I didn't need to have it ping me to say to reach out to a prospect. I was getting more prospects than I could possibly handle. So it was great. I didn't need it to do that. So I just used email marketing exactly as you described. I use it to keep up with and nurture the relationships and that all happened through my email marketing platform.

Brea: Yeah. So I love having a CRM because it helps me visualize the different. I mean, I've used pipeline, I've used pipe drive because I need that. I need a place where I can go and see these are the people that I reached out to. These are the prospects. These are the things that are in the pipeline, you know, and I can see where they are. You know, am I at the very beginning? Are we close to the end? That makes sense for my brain and I want a visual representation where I can see all the different deals that I'm working on at once, you know, and where they are in the progress. And I also love their relationship management aspect of, you know, when's your birthday? Or I love doing a little reach out when it's their CliftonStrengths anniversary, because on their, on the reports, it tells you when they took the assessment. So I love like following up, you know, those little reach outs. That's where a CRM is helpful because you can put all that data in there and a spreadsheet gets really full really fast.

Brea: So, again, just remember, like, what's the job that you want it to do for you? And then figure out what tech do I need or what tech best supports that job, you know, that I'm looking to fill. There might be aspects of the CRM that you want to use, but could be done by a different type of tech or vice versa.

Lisa: I love it. That is a beautiful way to describe when things that CRMs are great for that the other pieces of software wouldn't do. I want to give an honorable mention to Canva because even though I don't consider it to be the most critical when you're starting your business. It has been one of the most important pieces of software. I use it every, probably every day, definitely every week. It has such incredible power. And when I left and found that I had an alternative to using PowerPoint for design, for my delivery, everything from creating images to videos to editing, editing a photo, like just having a photo editor and not having to buy Photoshop, all kinds of things. I love, love, love Canva. So there's my 20 second Canva commercial.

Brea: Do you have one? I also am a Canva girl. I do have a graphic designer that I hire out marketing assets and my logo, my brand, things like that, especially any printed things. I usually have her design. But for digital stuff, for quick things, I mean, Canva does so much. So I use it. you know, I use it to create the images for the podcast. I use it to create so many things. So Canva Pro, I am a subscriber and it's worth it to me for sure. Yeah. Same. I use it for presentations and slide decks a hundred percent. It's so much prettier and so much easier than Google Slides or PowerPoint or anything. And you can, again, talk about something that has like really grown over time. I mean, Canva continues to really innovate. And now not only can you design your slide decks in Canva, but you can present from Canva. And now you can present offline too, which is great. So there's, it just continues to get better and better and better.

Lisa: Yeah, they have added so many AI features in the recent months and even I mentioned website. If you don't have a website, you can literally build a website as a type of when you click create, it's like you want to create a document, a social media image, whatever. Website is one of the choices and then you click publish and all you have to do is redirect your domain name to that link they give you. It's wild what you can do.

Brea: So easy, yeah. I actually love teaching coaches how to use Canva, so if you're interested in learning more about all the things that you can do in Canva, come find me and I'll add you to the list to be invited to the next, you know, Next thing, one thing that I love creating in Canva that I used to pay my graphic designer to do for me and now I don't have to anymore is customized top five cards for like a lanyard or just a postcard for a workshop or whatever. She designed the card itself, but now Canva actually has a mail merge feature that not a lot of people know about. What? There you go. See?

Lisa: I wouldn't have even thought to ask it to do that. It's amazing. So incredible and there's so much I know if you're a listener and you're like this episode alone Was a ton to think about write down Map out and I have all these other questions. What if I want to make a quiz on my website? What about a PDF editor? What about those documents signing? I mean, there's so much software that you'll find crops up the need or the desire for it will crop up as you go through your business. So if you want a mega list, I have one, you go to leadthroughstrengths.com/techstack. And I have this list with every category I could think of the day that I made the list. It's pretty big. It's six pages of technology, where it's like, I need X category. What can I look at? It'll give you that. And then I also put asterisks by the basically the foundational tech stack stuff that we talked about today. So, you know, if you're getting started, you don't want to kill yourself with the six pages worth of things to go figure out. And then I put my specific tech stack in there. If you're like, well, what do you use? What do you buy? I have that in here as well.

Brea: I love it. And of course you can come and talk to me and other listeners at our biweekly meetups. So if all of this sounds a little bit overwhelming, you want some clarity around some of the things we've talked about, or you want to learn from other listeners what they're, what they're using, um, come join us on zoom. So we meet every other week. Come to my website, BreaRoper.com to get the invite.

Lisa: We'll see you in there.

Let's Connect!

● LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook

● BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

In this episode, we dive into a lively showdown between two powerful strategies for nurturing relationships: email marketing vs. online communities.

You'll hear us engage in a playful showdown, where we throw down our best arguments for why our preferred method is the ultimate way to nurture relationships. As we explore the virtues of each approach, you'll learn about the power of automation and the certainty of email marketing, and the real-time engagement and community-building magic that comes from private online spaces.

So, whether you're team email or team community, or just curious about how to nurture your connections, this episode is packed with fun banter and valuable takeaways!

🌟

Work With Us!

BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!

LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

Takeaways

● Automation in Email Marketing: One of the standout points from our discussion is the incredible efficiency that email marketing offers through automation. With just a little upfront effort, you can create content that continues to nurture your audience for years to come. Imagine spending an hour crafting a message that can be reused and repurposed over a decade! This longevity allows you to stay top-of-mind with your audience, even if they don't open every email. Email marketing shines with its ability to automate and reuse content over time. You can create a nurturing sequence that continues to engage your audience for years, maximizing the value of your efforts.

● Real-Time Engagement in Online Communities: On the flip side, we explored the dynamic nature of online communities. Unlike email, where messages can get lost in crowded inboxes, a private online community allows for real-time interaction and engagement. Members can set their preferences to see exactly what they want, fostering a more personalized experience. This two-way communication not only builds stronger relationships but also empowers members to support each other, creating a vibrant ecosystem of collaboration.

● Choose What Fits Your Style: Ultimately, the episode emphasizes that the best approach depends on your personal strengths and preferences. Whether you lean towards email marketing or online communities, aligning your strategy with your unique style will yield the best results.

Take Action

● Explore Email Marketing Tools: Check out Lisa's Tools for Coaches membership group and consider using Kit to access pre-built email sequences and automations that can simplify your email marketing efforts.

● Engage in Online Communities: Consider creating or joining a private online community to facilitate real-time interactions and connections. Start with the Lead Through Strengths Podcast Meetup, hosted by Brea.

● Experiment with Content: Test different types of content in both email and community settings. For email, consider sending personalized messages that feel genuine, while in a community, encourage members to share their insights and support each other.

Let's Connect!

● LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook

● BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

AI-Generated Transcript

Lisa: I'm Lisa. or Mrs. T

Brea: I'm Brea. Iced T

Lisa: And, uh, we have our alter egos with us today because we're doing a showdown, like a rap battle about nurturing with email marketing or with a community. And it's the battle. I, Mrs. T, I'm there for the email marketing camp.

Brea: and Ice-T checking in, yo, yo, yo. I'm here for the online community. We gotta have a rap battle before we start. All right, okay. Yo, yo, yo, iced tea in the ring. I ain't here just to flex. I'm here to build something. Ooh, iced tea chases clout.

Lisa: Try to burn real quick, but I'm laying foundations brick by brick.

Brea: Oh, I feel burned, incinerated. You win. That was great.

Lisa: Gosh. And my positivity wants to stop immediately with the rap battle because I just want us to have mutual respect and not burn each other.

Brea: I mean, I do respect email marketing, but let's be honest, it's the worst.

Lisa: Online community all the way. I know. I'm in a tough camp, but as Mrs. T, I pity the fool that does not have email marketing on your side because it has so many virtues and people love to hate on it. It's not right.

Brea: I know. The irony is not lost on me that for probably six to seven years of my life, people paid me to write email campaigns for them, you know, and, and create funnels and all the things and I just am so over it. So yeah, I'm excited for the battle. Let's go.

Lisa: Okay, okay. Well, let's just start with the virtues of each and we get to give our debates about like, hey, this is why my thing is such a great thing. And of course, in the end, okay, spoiler alert for everyone. I know that communities are great. Bria knows that email marketing can be great. We believe that having both could be amazing, but we're totally gonna go with our characters and stay true to the one we're fighting for today.

Brea: Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Yeah.

Lisa: Right?

Brea: Oh my gosh.

Lisa: We're so tough. Can't you just feel the chains on me?

Brea: I know. I can see the like gold grill. Wait. Oh, that's Flava Flav with the big clock. Yeah. Anyways. Okay. Let's do it. I'm ready.

Lisa: Okay.

Brea: You want to go first?

Lisa: Sure. Okay. Let me give a major virtue of email marketing. I'm going to call it automation and systems, but the way this comes out is you can spend an hour building some content and you put it in your email system as an email and you added it to some nurture sequence or sequences, even better. You can spend that one hour and reuse it for A decade. And this is where email marketing shines because you can write that thing, put it in your systems, which takes a little bit more effort to create sequences and possibly tagging people by interest so it can be really individualized to them. And then you can reuse it eternally. I love that. You just get so much use out of your time.

Brea: Yeah. I mean, hello, Maximizer. I hear that for sure, for sure. So tell me, tell me how you're seeing this sustainability and the longevity from your email sequences. Like, are you actually reusing them year over year or quarterly? Or tell me, tell me more about that.

Lisa: Okay. So it can be, Yes, it can be reused. You're not going to remember something you saw two years ago that you may or may not have opened two years ago, right? So yes, you can reuse. If you make timeless content, it hits people different at different moments, different phases in their lives. So that's really cool. And then I think really. One of my other major, major loves for, and cases for email marketing is certainty. It's certainty that you can keep in touch every single one. lands in their box. And even if you don't open it, it keeps coming by. And after a handful of times, I know that person's name. So if they see Lisa Cummings lead through strengths and then they've been deleting it for six weeks and then they're like, oh yeah, I really need to focus on my strengths right now. And then they start reading them again. Or the best scenario that happens to me, people hit reply a year or more later and book me for events. It's happened over the 11 years I've been in business. It's happened many, many, many times. It's so cool. They've just been passively and lightly reading messages. I don't even know it, but they've been receiving them. Like, I've been on their mind in some small way, or Strengths has been on their mind in some small way, and then it's time to book their team retreat, and they're like, hey, we're doing a team retreat. Are you available on these days? That is so cool. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a cool value of email marketing that I've experienced over the years.

Brea: Yeah. Yeah. So this is interesting because I'm thinking of so many objections to what you're saying. I mean, I could tell you 10 ways that I'm certain that I have not read the emails that are in my email inbox. I actually have several what I call throwaway email addresses that I give to people specifically for promotions, right? And I don't ever check that email inbox, right? So I think what you're saying is the certainty is in relation to the algorithm. And so I think that's where I'm going to put online communities in the ring up against email marketing. That is something that I love about the online community. And I'm not talking about Facebook. I'm talking about private online community. So this is not a Facebook group or a LinkedIn group. This is a mighty network or a circle. This is a place where algorithms don't live. So here's where I think we agree. I am certain that every time I post something to my community, it will show up in their feed, you know, and they can set settings inside of your community to say, I want to see everything in my feed, or I only want to see posts about this strength, or I only want to see posts about live events or, you know, whatever. So they can really be in control of how much, how little, what type of content or they want to see everything, you know. And I think that that is so much better than social media and something similar, you know, with email marketing in that way.

Lisa: Yeah, if we had a battle rap with social media, we would both be dissing battle.

Brea: No, I appreciate social media, but social to me feels very similar to what you're talking about with emails, where even if people don't read it, they're seeing your name pop up, you know. But I think what I love about online communities is it allows me to really get my arms around people and really move from the nurturing to the building of the relationships. and engage even in real time. You can live stream from your community at any time. And if someone's just like doom scrolling on their phone or checking their emails on their phone, they'll get a pop-up notification that says, Bria went live and they can click and just talk to you live. That doesn't really happen in the same way with email. So there's pros and cons to it all, I guess. How do we even fight about it? Because it's like so many things to win about all of them.

Lisa: As the episode goes on, we're like, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah.

Brea: That's right.

Lisa: I heard you to get back to one more debate point. This was probably a couple of months ago. You and I were talking and you were like, oh, the concept of email marketing hurts my individualization. And meanwhile, I was like, oh, my individualization and my top five loves email marketing. Can we have a little bit of that conversation? Tell us where, obviously, it's going to shine in a community for you, but let's just talk about the personal touch, the individualizing to the person you're interacting with, and how that plays into your vote and your view on email marketing and community.

Brea: I almost hate to talk about this on a podcast because I know that I'm especially sensitive to email marketing because I have spent so much time, I mean years with it, that I really just feel kind of burnt out by it. This is just me, this is my opinion, my experience, so take it with a grain of salt. But I think the automated fields that allow you to customize, like adding a variable, like a first name, or even their CliftonStrengths, or the company that they work at, or the place that you met them, or whatever variables you might put into an email template to make it feel more custom, it just doesn't get me anymore. I get that that's what's happening, so the magic is gone. As a consumer, there's nothing magical or personal about receiving a mass email. Because I don't love it as a customer, I just don't love it as a business owner. And I think that is my whole approach to this conversation is as a customer, I don't love it. I literally have email inboxes that I don't check ever. So I just, I assume that other people are that way too. I just don't like spending time in emails. I would much prefer to talk to people in my community versus just sending out a blast email to everyone.

Lisa: Right. Yeah. It's fun hearing how the ones that we're voting for, like me voting for email and you voting for community, of course, they're reflecting our strengths and our personalities. I agree with Bria. I do not use those personalization features. Number one, we all know it. It feels like a trick where it's like, hey, Lisa. And you're like, you didn't send that to me with my name. But also what's worse, if I have a list of 30,000 people, it's not clean enough. And so if you put Bria Roper in the first name field, and I say, Hi, Bria Roper, comma, and that's joltingly annoying, because now I'm trying to make a personal connection that is so falling on my head.

Brea: That's right.

Lisa: It's a horrible feeling. So whether your fields get mixed up or if there's missing data, we've all received those emails where it says, hi, first name, and you're like, oh, it just grates on me.

Brea: I would rather not send an email than send an email that, you know, comes up that way.

Lisa: Yeah, me too.

Brea: I think, oh, I just have so many thoughts. It's interesting to me that when I take the time to actually send one-off emails, like this is not an email campaign, you know, I'm emailing you manually. You know, just you. This is me typing. A lot of times people think that it's a mass email because they have received marketing campaigns. And unfortunately, like I've had that feedback and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's just me talking, you know? And so instead of trying to fight it, it's just easier for me to be in a community. They know that it's me talking to them there. They don't have to question. When I reply to this, is it going to go to her? Is it going to go, you know, where is it going to go? Like, I don't know. I just. Right. Yeah.

Lisa: And I will say to get that nurture effect, because this is all in the context of nurturing relationships, right? For email marketing, I've said really specifically, it's like, hey, this is Lisa, and I'm behind this. And if you hit reply, it's going to be Lisa. And so I've mentioned that. Yeah, because then they really do reply. And some people really spill their guts in stories. about things that are so incredible and life-changing for them. It's amazing. So when people say email marketing, oh, it's so cold. It's so generic. I'm like, I have incredible conversations with people where they share their stuff. So it has to be in the design of what you send and whether they believe there's really a human behind there they could hit reply and talk to.

Brea: Yep, that's right. And as you build, they're receiving emails from you over time. They're going to realize like, oh, this really is Lisa. I think that's really important. The relationship that you have with them can be nurtured if there's that trust there. I feel like it's hard with email alone, right? Just email by itself to build trust solely through email.

Lisa: Well, okay, this is a really good reason to support email marketing or communities for the kind of work that we do. Because if our relationship is kicked off with a coaching call or our relationship is kicked off with a workshop, they already have a personal relationship with us. And now if they come to our list, they know us as a human and it has a different effect than if somebody just started randomly getting emails from a hundred percent.

Brea: And this, This is where I can get on board with email. But for me, it's different. It's not email marketing. It really is a true nurturing of a relationship that already exists, you know. Then bring on the automation. Make it easy. Make sure that that you're continuing to stay in contact with them. But when it comes to email marketing as generating leads, just being on your website, asking people to sign up for your email list, nobody wants to sign up for another email list. So maybe that's a big difference in my mind and in my heart even is what kind of email nurturing are we talking about? Where on the journey?

Lisa: Yeah, and we're supposed to be debating here. But really, we're so agreeing. And I think the word marketing has it flagged. And I call it email marketing, because it's really what all the software providers call it, and the industry calls it right. But the truth is what I've, what I've executed over the years is nurturing relationship building and education. And maybe I've earned the right being in their inbox occasionally to announce an offer, but It's not, I'm in your box trying to sell to you constantly because that wouldn't work.

Brea: Yeah, that's right. I mean, the numbers I'm sure have changed over the years, but it used to be recommended one in every seven emails would be a call to action for money. And the other six in the sequence were true nurture, you know, of some kind. So it's probably one in 10 now, you know, where you need more nurture now than you did back then. Yeah. So I have a question for you because we are very different people in a lot of ways, and we do have some similar strengths, okay? So I'm curious. For me, emails, it's not enough interaction. That's something that with my influencing themes especially, I need that feedback from people. I need to know that I am talking to someone, that it is showing up in their inbox. And I understand we can look at analytics to see are people clicking, are people not clicking, whatever. My question is always, why not? Why didn't they click through? Was it the subject line? Was it the whatever? There are a million reasons why it might have bounced or it might have gone unread. And so I want that communication. I want that feedback. And email doesn't give that to me in the way that a community does. Is that because my connectedness is so high and yours is is lower? Is that because like, I don't know, why? Why is that that it's easier for you to just put it out there? And if people reply like that's great, but you don't need that in the same way.

Lisa: Yeah, probably. I would say part of it is going to be a cutting off of how much time I spend just goofing and talking with people because that would be super fun for me. Like if I take a physical example of this early in my career, it was really difficult when people wanted a jibber jabber in the office when you're in the same space. I felt like, wow, I'm a highly distractible person. I'm going to be kind to the person who comes in to interrupt me, but my inside voice is going to be like, oh my gosh, quit interrupting me. I have four more hours of work to do. Now I'm going to stay here until 10 PM.

Brea: I don't have that inside voice. I need that inside voice.

Lisa: So I think that same inside voice happens where Like I banned myself from Instagram for years because it's so fun to do all those interactions that I can just lose myself in that stuff and not get back to revenue generating opportunities and the operations of the business and the core functions of the business. Although community does serve part of a core function, obviously, like the relationship building part, the nurture. But I think for me, it is a little bit more of that cutting off. Like if someone's replying, with me and we're having interactions on email marketing, one, I can get what I need to get done for the day and I can put that in my email block that I have allocated for myself. Like I have this many hours in a day to reply to email, whether that's one or three or whatever it's taking at that phase of my life. And if I finish up, then I can have fun and do like longer and more engaged interactions with people. Whereas, um, If I just allowed myself to kind of be around in a community and it's pinging me all the time, I would be so distracted that I wouldn't be a business person. I would just be like, oh, let's talk in the community. So I think that is part of a managing myself preference.

Brea: Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, because one of the things that I love about the community is that it can be real time. Like I said, I can live stream from the community, or I can just chat with the community. And if people have the notification set up on their phone, they can get the push notification and just chat right back. And that's really cool. But also or and They have each other, you know, it's kind of the difference between a group coaching and a one-on-one coaching like I don't have to be responding to all the questions because they're responding to each other and My activator loves that right? when I see that especially when I see them giving good answers to each other. I'm like, oh my gosh, you've learned, you know, like, good job, you've got it, you know, and you're sharing it with someone else. Like, that's so satisfying for me to be able to just observe, you know, and then to just like, or, you know, positivity comes in and I'm like, yeah, good job, you know.

Lisa: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that is incredible. And you could have clients from six different companies and the four people from each of those engagements who are the most excited about strengths. Now they're connecting with each other and sharing ideas with each other and you've curated that. So I could see that being really fulfilling.

Brea: Yeah. It's so fun. Yeah. What about, so when I think of email, I also think of tech headaches and I know you love tech and I do too. When it works, it can be amazing. There are probably listeners that are like you. There are definitely listeners that are like me and for sure there are listeners who are like, I don't even know where to begin. So any thoughts about that?

Lisa: I think, I mean, one, come over to Tools for Coaches, get sequences that I've already made. Make it easy on yourself. I've already built the automations. And if you use Kit, you can import it as a whole automation. So it already has all the email sequences strung together and can just, with a click of a button, get people into that couple-year sequence. So that's one. If you really want a shortcut, come over leadthroughstrengths.com, join at Tools for Coaches. in the main menu.

Brea: I just want to clarify for people, what you're saying is you've built the sequences. Not only are they written, but they're like plug and play, pre-programmed, ready to go. So if you, listeners, if you invest in the platform kit, then all of Lisa's content is literally just push a button and it's ready to go.

Lisa: Yeah, and they'll want to customize emails probably.

Brea: The easy part, right? Like they don't have to worry about finding the right platform and integrating and you know, do I have to zap with Zapier? Do I, you know, like it's just right here. It's already done for you. Yeah. Right.

Lisa: And we'll put the link to, I have an affiliate link for kick. It's the thing. It's like the only software that I am an affiliate for cause I, Love it. It makes all of that intimidation that you're talking about. It makes it just Dissolve it allows you to tag people with certain things. So let's just take an example of CliftonStrengths You could tag them as a corporate client so that an individual one-on-one coaching client might get different content from your corporate group training people. Or maybe you tag them with their CliftonStrengths. And if they click on something that if you say like, you could write an email that has all 34 CliftonStrengths, and you could say, click on the five that are yours, you'll get tagged for it. And I'm going to send out a just info that relates to your top five. That's all a possibility and that's all stuff that you can tell it to do based on the person's behavior. If they click X, then do Y. It's so cool what you can do with it. Mine, I don't use like a newsletter where that week everyone's getting the same message. I use mine like If you're on day one of the sequence, you're on day one of the sequence. And the person next to you can be on day 30 of the sequence. And then any of the real time stuff that I need to announce, like hey, there's a webinar next week, that would be in the PS, because I can put that in the footer of the message, so that I get the benefits of a newsletter and the benefits of the automations where they're running through and pulling people through a process. And that might sound complicated, but the system, it's literally dragging visually into They call them visual automations, and you literally do these visual things. If someone gets X-tagged, then kick off this sequence, and then boom, it just does the thing for you.

Brea: Yeah, and I love Mighty Networks. Same thing, you know, they use tags. We've got automations, and so you can really personalize it. Yeah, it's interesting to hear you talk about your love for email because I get all of that. And I think what it comes down to for me is the online community. It feels more two-way to me, even though email can be that. The way that I use email and maybe the way that a lot of people use email is more of just like, I'm receiving it, it's content that I'm receiving. And I feel like with my community, at least the way that I try to run it is, it's not that, it's conversation, it's exchange. And so I'm not using the tags and the automations and the data to customize content that I'm pushing out. I'm using it to figure out how to make connections with people, who needs to meet who, you know, and everyone in the community has that data. So it's not just me. Everyone can see, you know, you can go and click on, you know, whatever strength and automatically you see whoever else has that in their top five. Like that's, cool, you know, and it's available to everyone instead of just like the man behind the curtain. So I love that, the connection that it brings, how everyone can engage together and it's more of a conversation. So here's my communication coming out.

Lisa: Communication connectedness, so surprised.

Brea: Yeah. And less of a, like, this is just a way to give information. It's really a conversation. Community, you know, really, like, that's what it is.

Lisa: Yeah. And if you take my strengths with email marketing and say, OK, here's an offer of some education or a tidbit. And then if it happens to strike you and it strikes a chord with you and you're interested, then hit reply and we'll have a conversation. And then that honors my focus and being able to stay in my focus mode, but then build a relationship with the person who is like, oh yeah, that was really cool for me, so now I'm going to engage. And then when they initiate that engagement, now we have a DM going basically.

Brea: Yeah. I think I'm realizing more that, I actually was just talking about this with, we had our podcast meetup today, so if you're listening and you haven't come to one of those, zoom on over to briaroper.com and sign up for the invites to our Zoom meetups. But we were talking about how I love equipping and empowering and encouraging coaches or business owners or the client so much that email to me feels like a distraction from that. Yeah, and community is my distraction. Oh, it's so interesting. So interesting.

Lisa: So lesson, we might have our showdown, but for you, when you're deciding as the listener, which one do I choose? Choose the one that aligns with your strengths.

Brea: And you can't say both.

Lisa: Just kidding. Okay. We're going to have to have a vote out on the community. You have to pick one or the other. Yeah.

Brea: Oh, there's so many things on my list of things that I love about the community. It's honestly, it doesn't even feel fair to like pit them against each other because they're not even the same thing. It's really not even apples and oranges. It's like fruit and vegetables. You know, I mean, they're just like different.

Lisa: Yeah. Um, different things, but we've come together in a, in a hug at the end.

Brea: How do rap battles end with a, a winner and a mic drop and ooooooooh!

Let's Connect!

● LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook

● BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

In this episode, we dive into a hot topic that many speakers, trainers, and coaches grapple with: Should you put prices on your website?

Of course, there are many pros and cons of displaying prices, so we unpack various strategies that can help you make the best decision for your business.

Whether you're leaning towards transparency or prefer to keep things under wraps, the key is to make a decision that aligns with your business model and audience expectations. So grab your favorite beverage, tune in, and let's figure out together if listing prices is the right move for you!

💬 I'd love to hear your thoughts! Do you list your prices on your website? Why or why not? Join the conversation in the comments below!

🌟

Work With Us!

BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!

LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

Takeaways on Whether You Should Put Prices on Your Website

● Quality Over Quantity: One of the most compelling arguments for listing prices is that it can significantly improve the quality of your leads. By providing clear pricing information, you allow potential clients to self-select based on their budget and needs. This means fewer inquiries from individuals who may not be able to afford your services, ultimately saving you time and energy.

● Understanding Your Audience: The decision to list prices isn't just about your preferences; it's also about understanding your audience. Different demographics have varying expectations. Tailoring your pricing strategy to fit the needs and preferences of your target audience can enhance trust and engagement.

● Flexibility is Key: There's no one-size-fits-all answer when it comes to pricing. Offering different prices for corporate clients versus individuals or nonprofits can help you attract a wider range of clients. Also, depending on the nature of your offerings, you might choose to list prices for some services while keeping others more flexible. For example, if you offer a straightforward product, like a $10 guide, it makes sense to list that price. However, for more complex services that require a conversation, you might opt for a range or an "inquire for pricing" approach. This flexibility allows you to cater to different client needs while still providing essential information.

● Use Forms and Automation: Instead of relying solely on discovery calls, consider using forms or chatbots to gather information from potential clients. This can help you provide tailored pricing information without the need for a direct conversation.

● Transparency Builds Trust: Being upfront about your prices can foster trust with potential clients. If you provide context and value alongside your pricing, it can enhance their willingness to engage with you.

Take Action If You Decide To List Prices on Your Coaching Website

● Evaluate Your Offerings: Determine if your services are clear and transactional enough to warrant listing prices on your website. If you have standard packages, consider displaying their prices.

● Utilize Forms and Automation: Implement application forms or chatbots on your website to gather information from potential clients before scheduling a call. This can help qualify leads and provide them with a price range based on their responses.

● Create Informative Content: Create videos or educational content that explains your services and pricing structure, especially if you decide to list prices. This can help build trust and prime potential clients for the sale.

🎧

Let's Connect!

● LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook

● BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

AI-Generated Transcript on Podcast Episode About Listing Prices On Your Website

Lisa: I'm Lisa.

Brea: I'm Brea.

Lisa: Today's conversation is about, should you list prices on your website as a speaker, trainer, or coach, Bria? What say you?

Brea: This is a question that people ask all the time, isn't it? And honestly, I see pros and cons for both. Normally, I'm pretty opinionated, but this is one where I feel like it could go either way. What about you?

Lisa: I say yes, which is a controversial take, but I can be convinced otherwise possibly, but certainly I understand why there are opinions on both sides and there are definitely strategies on both sides. So you want to break them down?

Brea: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I'm surprised that you think that it's controversial to post prices. Is that what I heard you say?

Lisa: Yes. Oh, especially in the professional speaker world. Really? It feels like religion that you

do not post your prices, that you get people on a call because you reveal it on the call. Interesting. Yeah.

Brea: Yeah. Okay. I mean, I don't have prices on my website, but I have had prices on my website before and I will have prices on my website in the future. Like it's not a, it's just kind of, you know, my website right now is not great. Let's be honest. Um, the cobbler whose kids don't have shoes, you know, it's like the market, whose website hasn't been updated in years. Um, Let's talk about why.

Lisa: There are legitimate reasons why people do not list prices on their website. I do have prices listed on mine and I do like that idea, but let's go from the other side first. Why do people decide or opt to not list them for services?

Brea: Scarcity mindset comes to mind immediately. I think people are afraid that they'll lose the deal or they'll lose the opportunity, right, if they don't have the opportunity to sell or they can't, you know, communicate value or whatever. I think that might be one.

Lisa: Absolutely. I'll say that absolutely happened. I would get a lot of leads where people would be like, Oh, tell me about your workshops. Tell me about your speech. And then when I did, they would be like, Oh, I had $300 to budget. Oh, I had $700.

They were never going to be able to afford that service they were asking me about in the first place. So it created a lot of work. Yeah, a lot. So, and not like those people were great. They just didn't work at a company. Our market wasn't aligned. The day I started listing prices, now this was probably eight years ago, but when I started listing prices, I got way fewer lead forms. So many less than I received before. my lead quality went up a ton.

Yeah, you might get fewer leads. But we've all done this before. You can shop online for a blazer. And if I see a blazer and it says that the blazer jacket, I'm not talking about a Chevy, but the jacket says it costs $5,500, I might be like, I don't wear those very often. I'm not in that market. It doesn't mean that's not worth that to somebody. It's just not my market. We're not a great fit for each other. And you just kind of scroll on by and move on so that you're not spending hours considering each other.

Brea: Yeah, so that sounds like a pro for why you would list your prices on your website is to help your website visitor to decide, is this in my budget? Is this aligned with what I'm looking for before you have that conversation and invest that time?

Lisa: Well, it could be a con in that person who wasn't a good fit for that. They might be a good fit for something else. So if your website isn't clear enough to give them a different path, like, Hey, if this is too high for your budget, here are other options. You could lose that person entirely where maybe you could be of service to them.

So that would be a con. If you don't have the conversation laid out in a way that's consumable for them. Cause you could just say, boom, that leads gone forever. And maybe you could have had a relationship just in a different capacity.

Brea: Yeah, I think if you're someone who has very clear offerings, you've got two or three signature offers, those are the things that you just do over and over and over again, then it's easy. Put those on your website, put the prices, and let people say yes or no.

If you're someone who is like me and I like to customize things, I like to create things from scratch, really yummy experience. I want to talk to you. I want to figure out what are your challenges, what are your goals, and I have to have that conversation. And I love the conversation, so most of the time I'm willing to invest that time because if we're not a good fit, I probably know someone who is, and I would love to refer you to them…or maybe connect you with a different type of resource.

That is fun for me too. So if I have the time, I'd love to have that conversation just to hear more about what you're looking for and go from there. So do you have something that's out of the box that people can just pull off the shelf, look at the price tag and say, yes, no. Then if you do, then do that. And if you don't have that, then get on a call.

Lisa: Right. Right. I do think that is a valid conversation. If you have very different kinds of buyers, some more experienced than others, you could send them to an education piece. But yeah, there's some of that. And then also there are upsells that sometimes they do on the calls like Hey, if you want to buy a book for every participant, it could look like this or where the budget categories are.

Like if they're spending money on books versus speaker, they may need to move around what it looks like on the invoice and how it gets priced. So some of those things do warrant a live call together. So I do understand from that perspective why they may not want to list.

Brea: Yeah, and a lot of those reasons are also reasons why prices are not on my website right now. So I fully support all of that. And you could get a lot of that information or have that conversation in air quotes. Can you hear my air quotes? The conversation. via an application, a form of some kind. You can ask those types of questions without actually spending your time on a call. So I think that's a step that a lot of coaches may not consider, you know, because like you said, we hear it all the time.

You have to get on a call, you know, do a free discovery call or whatever, you know. But you can use an application or a form to gather a lot of information before you decide whether or not you want to invest your time in a call. And those forms can even be automated. I mean, Lisa, you're the automation queen.

You know, depending on how they answer it, you could set it up to where they receive an automated proposal or a sales sheet or something that says, hey, based on your answers, this is what we recommend and this is how much it costs and are you interested? There's so many ways that you could go beyond the typical list your prices or have a discovery call. It's not black or white. There are more options.

Lisa: Yes. I used to have that set up. I had it quite sophisticated because I would ask them things like, for if it's a, is this a CliftonStrengths event? If yes, if they answered yes, then another question comes in. Top five, full 34, or you already have your own. And based on their answer, and one of the ones is like, tell me the difference between top five and full 34. I don't know which one I'm open to hearing.

If they clicked that, I would send them some education on what those are. So that's just an example. But now, JotForm and others. Now there are so many chatbots that you can program with answers. I think people are becoming more open to typing things like that instead of a contact form. And you can program it to know quite a lot.

So you could go in an in-between instead of just a, do you list or do you not list prices on your website? You could say, well, should you list your prices on your website? Maybe you decide no, but then you put a chatbot and Have it return a range, depending, and as they answer questions about, it depends, full 34, top five, et cetera, is coaching included? Then it could give them back even things like a price range. Hey, a typical client pays X for what you've described, and then go from there.

Brea: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I also have done this. I've heard of other coaches kind of living in that middle ground that you're describing and actually putting those prices on your website. So maybe it's not a sticker price for a specific item, but you can say something like, this package starts at X number of dollars.

It at least gives people an idea of, okay, I'm looking at $, $$, $$$, or $$$$. like where Where are we, you know, in the expense range? Because if a package starts at five grand and they were looking for 500, we're way off, right? Like, I'm not going to buy a blazer for $5,000 if I'm looking for something that's $500.

Lisa: Yes, but also let's get to what I think is another reality that is just more nuanced. No one's going to like nuance, right? Because you just want the quick internet answer. Um, people, if they've been able to get to know you over time in whatever way, they've already seen you speak, they've met you at an event before, they've watched your YouTube channel, whatever thing that makes them feel really comfortable with you.

That is really different from just going to someone's website cold because the relationship with you and the trust or lack of trust that hasn't been built yet, those can, I think, really affect whether prices would make sense or not. Both, whether you should list them or whether someone would be open to a bigger price. after a conversation.

There's all kinds of stuff they could be anchored in when they show up and they're looking for a price. They used to call them tire kickers in sales. They're just running around looking for 20 prices just to get an idea of what a thing should cost. There are definitely people who might be doing that, but it's probably more nuanced now. They're probably following somebody around on social for a while or some other channels. And then when it's time, they're like, oh, I know who to go to.

Brea: Yep. And you know, as a consumer, I've kicked a lot of tires, okay? I love finding a good deal and making sure that I'm shopping around to get the best price, to get the best value, to get the best deal. As a business owner, I most of the time don't want to work with people who are just looking for the lowest price, right?

Like, I don't want to just show up and do a one-off workshop for a team that's not really excited to be learning about CliftonStrengths, you know, or to be discovering their own strengths or the strengths of their colleagues. I don't enjoy that. And so, part of the strategy of not including my prices on my website is to let the people who are just looking for the lowest price for a one-off workshop that they just have to do because their manager said, hey, go out there and find somebody to do this for us.

That's not my ideal customer. So I'm just letting them self-select away, you know? Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, that's a good one. I think it would definitely be a vote for listing prices on your website. If you have some products or services that are a little more transactional and clear, and the packages are really clear, like even if you're a career coach and you always sell a five session package, this is what it looks like. You might have a video descriptor breaking it down for people, but you could totally put those prices out there if it's just very clear and packaged up.

Brea: Yep. And you know, the way that I when I have had prices on my website, Lisa, it's been for for those reasons. It's been here's my full 34 debrief. It includes the code and it includes this and it includes that. And like, that's a very easy. out of the box, put a price tag on that, you know, people can pick it off of the shelf. That makes sense to me. Like if I'm doing a public workshop where one person can buy a seat, then a hundred percent be like, Hey, one seat costs this much and click here to buy, you know? Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah. That would be silly to not list prices in that case. Right. Yeah. And I think the higher ticket and the bigger, and more complex the engagement could be, the more it would lean you toward not listing prices because there could be all kinds of things. And without the conversation, it would be difficult to scope that out.

Brea: Yeah, definitely.

Lisa: Yeah. I mean, we have reasons to do it and reasons not to do it. And actually, I think our decisions have reflected our business model. My favorite kind of customer over the years was the retreat or the team summit kickoff, one giant meeting that they have once a year. And it is more of a one-off. So they only need to know factors.

It would be like, here's how much it costs for the facilitation fee. Here's how much it costs for travel. Here's how much the assessments cost. And that is something that I can make formulaic that they could figure out on their own from coming to the website. And it is more transactional. And what you're describing is more relational, long term, and a little more complex and does warrant a call.

Brea: Yeah. I think there's an element of trust as well. I think if someone doesn't know you and they just come to your website, that's the first time that they are seeing you. You're going to put a price tag out there. Make sure you have a video of you. Give them a reason to fall in love with you. You know, show them some of your work. Show them your personality.

Make sure that your website is communicating things that help them understand why that price tag is what it is. If you're not going to do that in a call, you can do that on your website, but you don't want to just put a price tag out there and let it hang by itself. You want to make sure your website is communicating the things that you would communicate on a call, just in a different way.

Lisa: Yeah, I think that's a good litmus test. If you find yourself on calls saying the same thing over and over and over and over, then make a video saying the thing so that when they come to your call, they're way more prepared. And you've said, be sure to watch this video before coming to the call. And there, there's a process there. So I think that is a good one that can save a lot of time and make the actual conversation much, much richer.

Then you have the price tag kind of conversation as well. So for example, I have a handful of $10 activity guides. I'm not going to make a video for $10. It's $10. It's a thoughtless $10, right? But then I also have sold $300,000 proposals, and those warrant a conversation, obviously, and a relationship. So those are going to have more.

That makes total sense. And if somebody's asking me about a $10 guide, I mean, look, you've got to be able to just spend $10, that's not going to be a high touch item. On the higher ones, then if somebody wants a range, and because some people do, they come in and they say, just give me some idea before we spend a lot of time together. Because that is if it's a cold prospect, and it's inbound, sometimes that is people's perspective.

Brea: Yep. And I think that $10 whatever you're selling on your website, that's a great example of a way to build trust, right? Before they're ready to get on a call, they're investing that time with you. Maybe they aren't ready. It feels too far down the road. You don't get married on the first date, you know? Like that's a way for them to get to know you too.

It doesn't have to be a video. It doesn't have to be free. It could be something that's paid and we have other episodes that talk about that too. Also keeping in mind who your ideal client is, you know, the Gen Z's, Millennials, we want prices. We want clear expectations. We want lots of information. Especially Gen Zs, like it's uncomfortable for them to pick up a phone and call someone and have a conversation.

You know, like they didn't grow up with that the same way that we did. And so starting with a Zoom call or a call feels very, very far from where they are and the way that they shop. So remembering, you know, who is it that you're reaching out to and creating a process that fits them is just as important as making sure that you're comfortable with your process as well.

Lisa: I think that's hugely important. And I'll end with a slice of audience. So you're talking who your audience is in terms of generation. If I talk about who the audience is in terms of role, If I say, for example, you're a meeting planner and you come to my site and I listed prices on my website. Let's say you listed a speech of $4,000.

Meeting planners who see $10,000 and $50,000 speakers all the time, they might actually get concerned that that's too low. And meanwhile, we have speakers, trainers, coaches who are like, I don't want to put it out there. It's going to be too high. It'll scare people away. It can also scare people away if it's too low. So know who your audience is and what kind of buyer they are and what kind of prices they've been exposed to.

Of course, you get to know it more over time. And you learn who your audience is more over time as well. And if you just don't know, like, I don't know, it could be corporate, it could be a meeting planner, maybe a bureau is looking for some other people to take on and they walk by your website and you have your price listed at $4,000 and they say, eh, too low.

They scoot right on by. So I just think I'll end with that part because people are usually concerned about listing prices because they don't want to scare people away being too high, but the opposite can also be true and is often true. So that would be a vote to be cautious of listing prices and potentially doing a range. if you don't know your audiences.

Brea: Yeah, I love that. Maybe you charge different prices depending on the audience. Maybe you have a nonprofit price and a corporate price or if someone's paying out of pocket for themselves as an individual versus they're paying with a corporate expense account.

There are lots of reasons why you might want to have some flexibility in your prices so you don't want to list them because you want to have a call to figure out kind of where they're coming from and how to best price to them.

Lisa: Okay, I have one more. I said it was my last thought. But I have one final thought. Oh, no. I have one more final thought, which is this is for back to my original vote of putting prices on your website. And this is a primary reason I list prices on my website. People do not have an attention span. And they don't want to work hard for the relationship.

I think that willingness to work hard early on is lower before you've built a relationship with each other. So if you won't tell them any information about you, they might just move on and look for somebody who will give them more information upfront and not try to hide it or put them into a sales funnel because they feel it as a technique. So I'm just going to throw that out there as a final reason you might consider actually listing your prices or at minimum a range.

Brea: Yeah, that transparency builds trust quickly, right? The fact that you can be upfront about what your prices are and what you offer feels authentic and good to people. Did we actually come to any kind of conclusion or did we just say, here's a bunch of thoughts?

Lisa: I think it's here's a bunch of thoughts but we did give them a lot of thoughts to consider and I think they'll find themselves somewhere on the continuum and at least we're giving them some of the decision criteria so that they can feel good about the choice they make.

Brea: Yeah, I would love to hear from the listeners in the next Lead Through Strengths podcast meetup. Come on, join me and other listeners to discuss, do you list your prices on your website? If so, why? If not, why not? I'd love to talk about that. So head to briaroper.com and you can get the invite for our next meetup.

Lisa: That sounds great. And for tools for coaches, that's my membership where I give people access to all of my tools behind the scenes, anything they've ever seen on my website, structures, et cetera. So if you want to take any of the, um, wording and, uh, maybe the forms that lead people through the pricing decisions, the logistics and the conversations that happen that lead people through pricing, et cetera.

If you are a member and you're listening, then holler at me and I'll make sure you have access to those as templates. So you're not starting from scratch. Awesome. All right. Well, I guess our call to action is, should you list your prices? Maybe, maybe not, but make sure you've had that consideration and you're deciding to do it or not do it based on some of the factors that we threw out in this episode.

Brea: I love it. Use your agency, you know, make a good decision. And also remember, you can always change your mind. Just try it, see what happens and then adjust accordingly.

Lisa: It's words on a website. All you do is go into a text editor and change it. It's such an easy thing that we overlook. We make a big deal about it, but you can just turn it on, turn it off.

Brea: And the answer can be both. I think that's also what we're saying is for some things, list your price. Absolutely. No question. If it's $10, put the price on there, let people buy it. Like you don't need to have a conversation.

And on the same website, you can have other offerings where it says, inquire for more information, or call for a custom quote, or packages start at this, or typically people invest this dollar amount to this dollar amount. I mean, it doesn't have to be a yes or no for your entire website. You can decide per offering or per page or whatever you want to do. You've got the power. It's getting kind of hectic.

Lisa: Is that the same song?

Brea: I have no idea.

Lisa: I think that's a little thing in the background. It's getting kind of hectic, but I don't know. We'll have to look it up and see. Is it one song or two songs?

Let's Connect!

● LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook

● BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

If there's one question I get from almost every coach I coach, it's this: how do I know what to charge? That's why we've dedicated this episode to a topic that resonates with so many of us in the coaching, training, and speaking industries: Pricing Your Services. In this episode, we explore various pricing strategies and how they can impact your business. Of course, we also discuss the importance of aligning your pricing with your personal values and strengths. We also talk about the value of adding more to your offers instead of slashing prices, and how to scope down services to meet client budgets. Plus, we sprinkle in some fun anecdotes and practical tips to help you navigate your pricing journey.

So, whether you're just starting out or looking to adjust your rates, this episode is packed with valuable nuggets to help you price with confidence!

🌟

Work With Us!

BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!

LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

Takeaways on How to Price Your Services as A Coach or Trainer

● Understand Your Pricing Strategy: There are things to consider basing your pricing strategy on, including cost, the market, client value, and more. Each has its pros and cons, so it's essential to find the one that aligns with your business goals and personal values.

● Add Value Instead of Discounting: Instead of offering discounts, consider adding more value to your services. This could be in the form of additional sessions, resources, or exclusive content that enhances the client's experience and justifies your pricing.

● Experiment and Adapt: Pricing isn't set in stone. It's okay to experiment with your rates and adjust them based on market feedback and your evolving business needs. Remember, you can always change the numbers on your website or pricing documents as you learn what works best.

● Align Pricing with Your Strengths: Your unique talents and strengths should inform your pricing strategy. Whether you prioritize accessibility, customization, or maximizing impact, ensure your pricing reflects what you can sustainably deliver while keeping you fulfilled.

● Offer Multiple Options: Presenting clients with different pricing tiers or packages can help them see the value in your services and choose what fits their budget. This approach not only anticipates budget constraints but also opens the door for future collaborations.

Take Action On Your Pricing Strategy

● Market-Based Pricing: Conduct Market ResearchSpend time researching what competitors in your niche/industry are charging for similar services. Create a list of at least three competitors and note their pricing strategies to help you position your own services effectively.

● Values-Based Pricing: Define Your Value PropositionWrite down the unique value you bring to your clients. Consider how your services can lead to specific results for them. Use this information to inform your values-based pricing strategy.

● Create a Pricing Experiment: Set a timeline (ex. 3 months) to test a new pricing strategy. Track client responses and sales. Be prepared to adjust your prices based on the feedback and results you gather.

● Develop Value-Added Offers: Identify at least two ways to add value to your services without discounting. For example, consider offering a free follow-up session for clients who book a package, or providing additional resources like e-books or webinars when the client pays for the package in full up front.

● Draft Three Different Pricing Packages: Create three different versions of your Signature Service (essentially the same service, but scoped up or down to hit different price points). For instance, if your Signature Offer is a Half-Day Workshop, maybe your lowest price point could include a basic virtual package, your "mid" price point includes the standard in-person package, and your top-tier price includes the in-person workshop, plus a few extras. Present these options to potential clients to give them choices that fit their budget and needs.

Let's Connect!

● LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook

● BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

AI-Generated Transcript

Lisa: I'm Lisa.

Brea: I'm Brea.

Lisa: And today's topic, I'm going to introduce by asking you a question, Brea.

Brea: Okay, hang on. Oh, I'm stretching. Okay.

Lisa: Okay, I'm ready. Ready. Ready. Get ready. You're at the supermarket. Okay. You're in the meat section and you find some chicken and it has a big red tag on it and it says 70% off. Hell no. Okay, so today's topic is pricing. Pricing your services. Okay, what's the difference? Sorry. Run the other way. And I am bringing this up because some people's pricing strategy when they get into a coaching, training, speaking business is just, I don't know what else to do, so I'm going to come in low so that it's comfortable for everyone. But sometimes they come in and they feel like the 70% off chicken package.

But they don't realize that's how they're coming off to clients, so I'm just bringing this up to frame the idea of pricing your services. There are a lot of ways to go about pricing your services. It is a number one question that comes up, especially at the beginning of a coaching, training, speaking business, but also along the way. Should I raise my prices? Where's the right price? getting enough business because I'm at the wrong place in my price for my market. So we're going to explore all kinds of things around pricing, some related to mindset, some related to strengths, and some just basic pricing strategy kind of thoughts to get you grounded in different ways you could go about pricing.

Brea: This is gold. Chef's kiss, like, I don't know if I've ever talked to another coach or another business owner who hasn't had this question. How do I price my services? What do I charge, right? I mean, everyone is asking this question. I see it in the Facebook groups, online, all the time. I mean, yes. Okay, let's go.

Lisa: So I remember when I was working on my MBA, we were talking about all kinds of businesses, not just service businesses and not just small businesses. What are some pricing strategies? And the ones I remember having really good discussions around, let me just kind of rattle off the things I can remember. One is, you could position yourself as a low-cost leader. Think about this, this is the coach who probably is like, I want my prices to be accessible for all, I want to never lose a deal because I'm charging too much, those kind of things.

Brea: Yep.

Lisa: We have market based price. This is the one that I've chosen. And that is you find the market based on what customers expect and are used to what your competitors charge. There's a finding of the market that can be a challenge, but I would say that market based pricing, just trying to kind of fit in somewhere in the middle of the market. Yep. There's premium pricing. hey, I'm going to be viewed as luxury, top tier, only the best can afford this, and only the best service is going to get delivered. There's a cost plus kind of version, and yeah. No. Like, OK, let's think about all the input costs it takes to run a business. If you had a physical product, this would be a lot more obvious because people would be like, oh, I see. If I'm going to build a house and I find a cost plus builder, they're going to take all the materials, all the labor, and then they're going to put their builder fee on top, right? That's really simple when it's a product, even though that's a service. But there are tangible parts to that product. So for coaches and trainers and speakers, that's really interesting because you're like, what are my input costs? Well, it's my labor when I'm solo, but what if I know I want to grow my business into the future with a robust team behind me? Now I have to project what are my costs. I have software costs. I have office costs. I have hardware costs. And then we typically have a higher margin business, so the plus part of cost plus is usually higher for a service business. But another element I would like to layer on to this cost plus is, are you pricing thinking for the future? Because if you price yourself today as an absolute solo practitioner, like freelance style, and then three years from now or two years from now, you decide you're going to bring on three team members and you're going to go move into an office, your costs are going to skyrocket and your margins are going to tank if you don't raise your prices. So can you think of your pricing from the future building out how you project your team to be? Because those are the kind of clients you're going to need to attract who can afford the service you offer as a bigger team.

Brea: Yep. Yeah, and I would add values based pricing. What value do you bring? Not what is the cost of goods or what is the cost of your time or whatever, but what what value does your customer see in that? This is something that I think a lot of people struggle to do if they see a big divide between, you know, like the value is a lot higher than what than what the service provider feels it actually costs them to deliver. So yeah, but I love Values Based Pricing.

Lisa: I was just talking to a sales speaker the other day. He's so good at all of this. And he was saying, he's like in the $50,000 range for a speech. And the customer was like, oh my gosh, for an hour of your time. And he's like, would you like it to take a lot longer for me to help you get the results? So there's always that. And then when you said values, I wasn't actually, my brain didn't go to results. It went to values like our personal values. And I think that's another layer that would be worth adding on because I think you could separate that out from low cost leader. Like some people are, have a loss leader product or service.

I definitely do this with low ticket offers and have specific products or services offered that get people in the door. And some people have that low cost leader just as a, what they do. And that's a strategy. But other people from a personal values level will say, I want to be accessible because I want every person to have access to this thing. And it, it comes from their personal values and That is a whole pricing strategy as well.

If you're going to use that pricing strategy, it's fine, especially if those are your personal values. Great if your pricing strategy aligns with your personal values. And be sure you do the math. You're going to have to serve more customers if you offer the super low price and you're accessible to no one if you go out of business. So just do the math to make sure you can make that viable. I love it.

Brea: Yeah, I think all of these are really good for people to consider. And they're really, I don't know, I think maybe in some situations there might be a right answer, but most of the time the right answer is with the one that's right for you, right? So how many times can I say right in the same sentence? Okay.

Lisa: But the point hits home. Yes. Because it is true. There isn't a right pricing strategy. So I'm just going to double down on it and say it more. There isn't a right way. And I think that's what makes it hard. People say, I'm in this. I have no idea what the price is. How would I even find the market? Where do I find the right price? You're going to probably have to have an experiment and or a lot of research to try to find your spot. And it's fine if you don't land it on day one. I mean, if you're making a price list on your website or a PDF, all you have to do is go change some digits with your keyboard and you can change the price to update it. It's an experiment. Yeah.

Brea: Yeah, that's good. That's a good reminder. Other things to consider. Consider your talents. Consider your strengths. If you are a person who needs consistency, who needs to know that you've got some mailbox money coming in, OK, then price accordingly. If your talents need some kind of recurring revenue, whether that's a membership fee or some kind of recurring revenue is what I'm talking about, then do that. Follow your talents and price accordingly.

Lisa: Well, do tell us about your talents. How have you followed your talents and how have they shown up in your pricing strategy?

Brea: So I resonate with the, I want something that's accessible to everyone. It's something that I feel really passionate about. Personal and professional development should be available to all. It's not something that should be a luxury for some. And yeah, so there's some of those relational talent themes that really leads that for me. And at the same time, I want maximum impact, right? So I have a lot of influencing talent. So I'm not satisfied filling my calendar with like one-on-one coaching conversations because I'm not able to reach as many people and I'm not able to make as big of an impact. So for me, that means having different offers and pricing in a way that the majority of my revenue comes in from bigger ticket items. And I build in some pro bono work. I have a certain amount of sessions, you know, or maybe, maybe one offer is priced as a BOGO where I've done this successfully before. And it feels so good to me to go to a corporate client and say, Hey, When you purchase a workshop for your team, also you get to choose from this list of nonprofits in your area or charities in your area, and I'll go do a workshop for them at no cost or at low cost or whatever. So it's like a pay it forward type of thing. I've done applications where people who are in a job search or a life transition or just find themselves in a place where money is tight, but they really want the coaching and they want the tools, great. So they can fill out an application to put some skin into the game. And there's a certain number of those sessions, those hours that I've budgeted for that month, and that's available. So I think we can price in a way that that makes it possible to make me feel fulfilled, you know, and also still put food on the table, you know, and money in the bank.

Lisa: Mm-hmm. Oh, I'm totally feeling your includer and connectedness there, that ripple effect. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah, what about you? Okay, let's pick Strategic certainly shows up. It's my number one and it is always looking ahead, trying to make clean, clear decisions. And so it definitely guided my process of being in the squarely in the market pricing type of strategy. I would say on the pricing side, one that gets in my way is individualization. because I love customizing.

Brea: Yeah, we both are in the doghouse for this like all the time.

Lisa: Kind of forget at times to charge tailoring fees, which people totally expect if you're like, oh, it's a premium bespoke version. It's customized, it's tailored. they totally expect to pay for that. But sometimes I get just ahead of myself with the excitement about customizing. So if that happens, the way I make up for it and the way my strengths come in to say, all right, now, how do I redeem myself to myself? Because to the client, it's amazing to myself. Then I pull out Maximizer and I'm like, OK, if I'm creating this alternate version or the specialty down this one path or rabbit hole that they wanted to go down, I will now create a digital product in that area or a whole thing that now I can offer on the menu of services, so to speak, so that other people can get the benefit out of it and I can resell the work that I did for that one client to someone else and make something out of that tailoring time because I could lose myself. for eight hours tailoring and not charged for that. So I think that those would be a tours of how my strengths show up in pricing, maximizer, individualization, and strategic showing up the most.

Brea: I hear that. I still hear that. And something that you're really great at is scaling. I think your brain just naturally thinks that way. We've talked several times on the podcast about adding a zero or taking away a zero. So that's what I'm talking about is thinking strategically, thinking about how to scale. And I wonder if sometimes for me, if I'm thinking that way, I can make things too complex. The individualization or the strategic, the ideation will come in and say, we could do this. Or if you prefer, we could do this. Or we could set it up like this. And we could start here and then we could get here and then we could do this. And then in five years, we'll be here. And all the client hears is like, wait, what? Do you ever find that or is that just me?

Lisa: Well, okay. Focus comes right in, number six. futuristic right behind it. And so the way those two come together, because you dream into the future. And if you add an ideation, the way you just described it can sound like all the ideas and mine comes in like, okay, here's where we're going into the future. what are we going to choose? And it, it's this constraint thing that comes through. And luckily, I have that one Executing talent in my Top 14. And I would say Strategic very much is a prioritizer as well. So between Strategic and Focus, it's like, I have a million ideas, and I would like to create a dozen products that would be really fun and that is not the most productive use of my time because i could easily go out of business just creating stuff that i never get up on the website never sell never create messaging or marketing for And I do think I'm not the only one like that. I think there are so many coaches and trainers and speakers who are, we're into the craft, we're into the thing that we came here to deliver. And it's really fun to create resources and create products and create things and have these new ideas. And The easy thing to forget is if it doesn't have a price tag attached, if it isn't getting sold, it's just getting created, it's not keeping us in the state of a viable business. So I'm really fortunate for the strength of focus and strategic to be my prioritizers and say, no matter how fun that is, can it be priced? Can it be marketed? Can it be sold? Can it be put into an efficient system? And if not, I'm just going to table it until a client's ready to pay for it.

Brea: I love it. So this is reminding me at the top of our conversation, I was thinking, we started talking about discounts. Okay. Can we just go there? I just want to talk about this.

Lisa: I think we probably should. I mean, we started off talking about 70% off chicken and everybody likes to talk about discounts when pricing comes up.

Brea: So here's the thing. I learned this in high school when I started selling Mary Kay. That's a whole nother podcast episode. But instead of offering it a discount, if you feel like you need to or you want to, you're insecure that you don't think the market's going to bear the price, whatever your reason is. consider, instead of offering a discount, consider adding more value. So instead of saying, I'll take this percent off or I'll take this amount off, say, look, this is the price, but if you buy four sessions, right, or my favorite is if you pay in full upfront, figure out what your ask is, right?

Then, if you do this for me, then I will give you this extra thing, an extra session, or maybe you offer a discount then, but only offer a discount if they have given you something that's valuable. It's so easy for me to offer a small percentage discount if they pay in full up front for their workshop. You know, that means I don't have to chase them down. That means I have all of the money that I need to go buy all the supplies. I mean, it's just so much easier. It's worth a little bit of a discount for me. But my favorite thing is instead of discounting, add more value.

Lisa: I love this topic so much. Okay. You can add more, add more value. Here's another example of add more value. I work with associations sometimes to deliver a speech and they're usually a little more formulaic. They know what they pay for speakers. Yeah. And if you don't fit the market rate, they'll be like, Oh, you're over market on this thing. And so there's a whole deal there. And the way that I've overcome that almost every time is offering webinar to the audience.

For example, I'm going to do an in-person speech somewhere and my rate is higher than the market rate they were hoping for. Now I'm offering a one-hour webinar. It could be a pre-event. It can be a post-event. And look what's so beautiful about this is that so many times they'll be like, oh, can we offer this to our greater audience, all of our association members, instead of that one state?

Brea: Can you give me free marketing? Sure.

Lisa: Yeah. Yes. You just nailed it, Brea. And that's what I'm doing to add more value because they need to justify to somebody else internally that this person is worth more worth. I'm putting in quotes more financially than this other person because they're offering this other stuff. So be thinking of what are these add ons you could bring. And sometimes it's also the line item. Like if we pay for A book, or a souvenir-y thing, or an e-book, or you have a video, or you do a pre-something or other. Just think of all the things you could do to add value. It's a huge category. The opposite, I have a whole other category to bring up. Tell me if you've done this. Nope. No matter what, I've been given this budget. It can't go over this amount. I only have this to work with. It doesn't matter how much you sweeten it up. Now, of course, they wouldn't say it like that to you.

Brea: I mean, you know, yeah, okay.

Lisa: We work with so many good clients, but they would just be like, sorry, Charlie, this is what I got. Then can you scope it down? So if they're saying, let's do an in-person and you priced it at $7,500 and they don't have that, they say, I'm sorry, I love you so much. You are my favorite of the three people we're talking to, but I only have $3,500. to work with? What if you then scope it down? What if it becomes virtual training? What if you have a version, if let's say you are a CliftonStrengths trainer, and now you do a version without assessments instead of with assessments, and you kick off the concept of a strengths-based focus? There are so many small things you can do to scale down, to scope down, And then you're getting the price that you like your price instead of the other. So there's another option as well. How can you scope down to meet their budget?

Brea: I love it. And I've done both. And yes, yes, yes. I think also what's coming to mind is in the proposal offering multiple options at the same time. So I'm curious, Lisa, if you do this or not. I always offer three different price points so that It kind of is anticipating this conversation, right? And it's literally a side-by-side comparison so they can see, look, here's the outcome that you're looking for. Here's three different ways that we can deliver it. One is virtual. One is in person, right? Let's just do two for the ease of conversation today. they can see side-by-side the price difference for that and they understand why they're going to pay more for me to come in person or, you know, the scope down is, like, they can understand why that's less, right? And maybe one is the top tier includes all the yummy swag, just different things that someone may or may not want to include in their bottom line. I think having different options from the beginning allows them to see what is possible and decide where they want to spend their money. That's what I do. Do you do something similar or do you always start with one thing and then go up or down depending on what they say?

Lisa: I love the approach. I absolutely do it. I love having options. I love having options that paint a future vision so that they can see ways you can work together in the future. They can see where you go from here. And even if it's aspirational to start, often they do come back a year later and say, okay, now we see that grander thing and we're ready for it. So I love it strategically and also just to give them choices because a lot of times they don't realize they have the choices.

Brea: Yeah, and I think I agree. And this is something that I need to work on because we've already talked about this. I see way far into the future. I want to have an impact. And so it's hard for me to just be like, sure, I'll come do a little one-off event for you. I try to sell them the big, full, major impact. But I'm talking about something different. I'm thinking about like, the same thing, not different offers, not like a five-year contract versus a one-off event. I'm talking about a one-off event at three different price points.

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Brea: Yeah.

Lisa: Okay. Sure. Yeah. And I don't do that as much as I do, though, for sure, having one grand division included in there. And I wouldn't want to get too crazy and give them five versions so I could accomplish it all. So it would depend on the needs assessment call and what comes up. Yeah, totally. If it feels like, hey, we are going to move forward. We're doing this kickoff event. And it's like, is this virtual? Is this in-person? And does it include coaching? Or is it only group? Like something really simple, just those versions.

Brea: Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I love this. So I keep thinking about how the different talent themes, the different domains of talent even affects how we price. I wonder if the relationship builders out there, relater, developer, maybe includer, are these themes looking for longer term clients that they can grow with over time? Are you looking for pricing structures that that are maybe lower client volume, less people, and higher retention, right? So that you can kind of stay with them. What pricing structure makes sense to honor your desire to work with a client in that way?

Lisa: I bet your theory is really strong for people with relationship themes. It's not necessarily how I think about the original contract, but I do think it brings the people back for referrals. It brings them back for repeat business later. So I do think it proves the theory in a little different way for me.

Brea: Something else that comes to mind for me, I really, really like having flexible pricing, flexible offers. You know, there's that individualization, maybe that includer, maybe that empathy. You know, if I can tell that someone really doesn't have the money, there are lots of ways to pull on my heartstrings, you know? So I like customizing and like having flexibility, knowing that I can charge one thing today and And I can change my mind and charge more or less later. Right. And I think that that comes from a lot of my flexible talent themes, whereas the talents that I don't have might want some more structured, stable, you know, pricing structures.

Lisa: Yeah, I love that you're bringing up the domains and that you raise the idea of each of our individual strengths and where they would come in, tendencies and how we think about pricing, tendencies and how we lean toward one of these pricing strategies or another and just being free to honor what feels great to us, what feels really aligned with us in our natural talents. And I don't think that's a conversation that would usually come up with pricing. And if I gave closing thoughts, I just feel like the beauty is what feels right to you. You have to start somewhere. And sometimes it is the swag. And excuse my French, but sometimes it is strategic, wild-ass guess. And that is where you start, because you don't know where the market is. And then you layer in that. where do my strengths, where do they want to be, what feels aligned with me, what feels an integrity with me as a person and the business I want to build. And then, you know, if it's something that you're talking to me about, Lisa, I'm going to be saying, do the math. Now, check it against the math. Does this work to create a viable business? Because it is easy to overlook that part and then get way into it and realize, oh my gosh, I'm working like mad and I work so many hours and now I'm in an 80 hour a week job and I'm not making ends meet and that's just because you didn't do the math of the strategy. So math it out at the beginning, make sure it'll work and all those pieces come together beautifully and the experiments turn into what is a beautiful aligned business.

Brea: I love it and also I don't work like that. You know, when I hear you and I'm like, yes, that sounds so smart. And I also hear, but how will I know? The numbers change all the time. What the market can bear changes. So I don't do market based pricing because I expect it to change and I don't think I can count on it. And for me, my priority is charging what my strengths can sustain. the market may or may not sustain that price. You know, they may or may not be able to bear that price, but what can I continue to deliver? What can I continue to sustain as far as what I'm offering and what prices, you know, what do I need to charge to sustain me, my energy, my happiness and my business, you know, my profit?

Lisa: Yeah. And that is the beauty of this show. Right? We don't agree. And it's so awesome. You don't run your business like I run my business. You don't have the same brain that I have. And we both have had long-term businesses. And we're giving people what, yeah, here's the reality. Here's what she's done. Here's what I've done. And we do it differently. And both of them work. And that is so inspiring because you have choices.

Brea: It's amazing. I mean, it brings us full circle to the beginning of the conversation, right? There's no right way to price except what's right for you. So really, it sounds cheesy, you know, but it really is true. So be honest with yourself and figure out what works for you. Go for it.

Lisa: Is there a tagline for that game show, The Price is Right? It feels like we should do something cheesy. What's the… That's hilarious. Okay. Now I remember that sound from my grandparents' house.

Brea: Yes.

Lisa: Always watched it.

Brea: I used to watch Prices Right as a kid. It was like my favorite thing when I was sick and had to stay at home. Prices Right, 10 o'clock a.m., boom, on the couch, I am there, you know? I auditioned for, I don't think I did the Prices Right, but I did audition for Wheel of Fortune once, and that was super fun.

Lisa: You did, ooh. I mean, communication, words, sounds right. Yeah, yeah. And did it happen? What was it like?

Brea: No, I didn't make it, but it was really fun. I would love to be a game show host. This is like my true dream life would be to host a game show.

Lisa: I could see it. I could absolutely see it. Yeah. Yeah.

Brea: Or talk show that has a game show portion. Oh my gosh, let's go.

Lisa: Well, then, I mean, you could get some practice. We have a podcast, which is kind of like a talk show, and if you added a game show element, which you'll have to noodle on, we could do it.

Brea: Oh, my gosh. Okay, people, come to the podcast meetup. We're having a game show. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. We're going to figure it out. Come on. BreaRoper.com to get the invite. Boom.

Let's Connect!

● LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook | Tools for Coaches

● BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

In this episode, we tackle the often-taboo topic of…money. Specifically, money blocks – those pesky limiting beliefs that can hold us back in business. We share our personal experiences with money narratives that shaped our views on wealth and success. From feeling guilty about charging for work we love, to the fear of being perceived as "slimy" when selling, we get real about how these beliefs can impact our businesses.

You'll hear us discuss the importance of recognizing these narratives and how they can affect your mindset and performance. If you've ever felt stuck in your relationship with money or unsure about how to confidently ask for what you deserve, this episode is for you! Join us as we unpack these themes and encourage you to check in on your own money mindset. Let's break those blocks together!

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Work With Us!

BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!

LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

Takeaways

● Understanding Money Blocks: Money blocks are limiting beliefs and behaviors that can hinder your ability to earn and ask for money. Recognizing these blocks is the first step toward overcoming them.

● Personal Narratives Matter: Money narratives shaped by our upbringing can influence adult perceptions of wealth and success.

● Selling is Helping: Selling doesn't have to be a slimy or uncomfortable act. Instead, when you focus on providing solutions and helping others, you can shift your mindset around sales.

● The Importance of Mindset: Mindset plays a crucial role in your business success. Feeling confident and positive about what you offer can significantly impact how others perceive you and your services.

● Undercharging: Many people assume they need to charge lower rates until they gain more experience. However, it's essential to recognize your worth and not undervalue your skills, as there are always clients willing to pay for quality services.

Take Action

● Identify Your Money Blocks: Reflect on your personal beliefs and narratives around money. Consider how these beliefs may be affecting your business decisions and overall mindset. Write down any limiting beliefs you recognize.

● Challenge Undercharging: If you find yourself undercharging for your services, evaluate your qualifications and experience. Research market rates for your industry and consider adjusting your pricing to reflect your true value.

● Reframe Selling: Shift your perspective on selling from being a slimy or uncomfortable experience to viewing it as an opportunity to help others. Practice articulating how your services provide solutions and benefits to potential clients.

● Invest in Yourself: Assess your willingness to invest in your personal and professional development. Identify areas where you can seek coaching or training to enhance your skills and confidence in selling.

● Join a Supportive Community: Engage with others who are also working through their money narratives. Consider joining Lisa's "Tools for Coaches" or Brea's podcast listener meetups to share experiences and strategies for overcoming money blocks.

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Let's Connect!

● LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook

● BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

AI-Generated Transcript

Lisa: I'm Lisa.

Brea: I'm Brea.

Lisa: And today, oh, we're talking about money, money, money, money.

null: Money.

Brea: I was like, oh, this is so high.

Lisa: I got my silly voice on. I can hit the high notes with my silly voice. Money.

Brea: I love it.

Lisa: Money blocks.

Brea: Oh, money blocks. Okay, I am here for this. Yes. This is real, folks.

Lisa: This is real. It's getting real. What are money blocks? I mean, let's say I would define this as limiting beliefs around money. I would define it as behaviors you make in your business that are driven from a money narrative that may not be serving you or your business? Yeah, that's good. How would you define these?

Brea: I mean, maybe what blocks me from making money? Hey, yeah. Yeah. What blocks me from making money, from asking for money, from selling? Yeah. What are those blocks?

Lisa: Well, you said it's about to get real. So if we're going to talk business owner money blocks, why don't we just get open and share the ones we've dealt with personally so that people can see we're humans who deal with stuff too. And then we can happily share, since we've both worked with many coaches, some of the trends in the narratives that we hear from our clients.

Brea: Yeah. I mean, gosh, already I'm feeling it, you know? Like money touches everything. Money makes the world go round, right? I mean, love makes the world go round, but really money makes the world go round, you know? And if you have it, it affects your mindset. And if you don't have it, it affects your mindset. And if you need it, it affects your mindset, which mindset affects performance. Like there's just, so much where the money block, it's not the money. Money is not the thing. The selling, not the thing. It's something underneath that that blocks us from asking for it or from believing that we deserve it. That's what comes to my mind first, is that it's not about the money. There's something else underneath that is the block.

Lisa: Yeah. Oh, yeah. As you said that, I was thinking of acceptance, and I know that has been a thing in my career with the family that I grew up in. Now, my parents were luckily not wealth haters or anything like that, so I didn't get those money block narratives where I would think I'm an evil person if I made money. But I did grow up in a pretty poor area and it was not going to be celebrated if somebody was successful. And I do, I live a charmed life right now. I have a couple of houses. I live in Texas part-time. I live in Colorado part-time. I live in the RV when the weather isn't great in either of those. I mean, I live an amazing life. And I really, as I was coming into that and coming into success, I did a lot of things to minimize it and I would always be the one, like if I went back to visit my family in the Midwest, they would be like, did you fly or drive? And I knew the correct answer was drive because flying was something people did when they had money. And so if I flew, I would say, oh, I have points because work paid for so many trips. So, I would minimize to be accepted. I didn't really realize, of course, at the time I was trying to be accepted, but I was trying to give the acceptable answer. And what I realize now on the other side of it is that the narrative that was the money block for me is probably some version of toil is respectful, but eating bonbons by the pool is not. So, any version of like, oh, must be nice, you can just go hang out over there without the hard work. So, this thing of toil and hard work, it's been really difficult to shake because it's always felt good to work hard, work long. And there's been a resistance over the years to figure out like, what would the easy button be? What would it look like to not have to work so hard for money? I didn't really even want to explore that for a long time. And I think that's why, that acceptance. So that's been my money block, probably the biggest one over my lifetime.

Brea: Oh, there's so much there. There's so much there. I relate with that so much. Also from the Midwest. Hey, Kansas City. Hey. Also from a hardworking family. I'm the oldest of eight kids. Everybody that listens to the podcast knows that I have an enormous Catholic family. My dad worked and my mom stayed home. So one income for all of those mouths and five boys, four of them were teenagers at the same time. So, I mean, I'm painting the picture, right? Okay. I mean, I don't remember a time when we felt that we didn't have enough, right? But I knew that we didn't have a lot, you know, and I knew that we had to be careful. And my mom is amazing. at what she was able to do with so little. I've learned so many hacks from her as far as how to save and how to ration and how to just like get the most out of everything. And also that kind of messes with your psyche a little bit, you know, when now as an adult, I really want to have this abundance mindset. And I can tell sometimes that that scarcity mindset that I grew up with and just because money was scarce, you know, still like creeps in as an adult. So it's interesting. Yeah.

Lisa: How do you see it creep into things you say in your business, ways you act in your business? How do you see it really showing up? Things you say?

Brea: Well, you know, the thing that's coming to mind is actually before I started my business, when I was a missionary for four years, I fundraised my entire income. And that was so crazy, going to people and asking them to give me their paycheck, basically, right? A part of their paycheck to pay me to do my work. Such a, such a strange, thing. And I remember it bothered me so much, hello communication, where words really matter, when people would say, oh, we just can't, or we don't have it, we don't have the money. And I just remember thinking, yes, you do. Everyone does. You just are choosing to spend it somewhere else, you know, and not in a not in a judgment way. Like, sorry if it came out that way, because that's not the intention of like, you should give it to me. Just didn't like. Yeah. Like we all have money. So. I think hearing other people tell me that every day for four years really made me aware of when I used those words, where I found myself making excuses and not really taking agency in my own choices. So, in a lot of ways, but especially around money.

Lisa: Tell me about, in the clients you've worked with, what is, let's say, the number one money block you hear when they're experiencing their own narratives about money?

Brea: Well, the same thing. We don't have the budget. Yes, you do. You just chose to use it somewhere else.

Lisa: Yeah, exactly. I'd say my number one from the coach, trainer, speaker, business owner perspective is some version of the stereotypical slimy salesperson. where they're like, I'm totally comfortable with delivering the service that I sell. But offering the service in a sales capacity feels completely uncomfortable. And I worry about being judged. And that whole process feels totally off. That is a, in my opinion, it's a money block because it's when the money conversation comes up that everything changes in their mind and suddenly they're uncomfortable with the service they offer.

Brea: Yeah. Why do you think that is? Like what's the thing under the thing?

Lisa: There has to be something about being perceived and judged and maybe they have listened to sales stereotypes, like maybe they've experienced the, you know, I don't want to pick on the used car salesman, but everyone knows that metaphor where it's pushy and it's inauthentic and it's one-sided and selfish because they're just trying to line their pocket. I think there's something about that judgment, but I don't think I mean, the vast majority of coaches and trainers and speakers, we get into this work because we have some beautiful message or some beautiful mindset shift or some beautiful thing we have to offer the world and it comes from a genuine place. So then there has to be a narrative under that about how they fear being judged because I don't think they're icky. My clients aren't slimy. My clients aren't one-sided. My clients aren't all out for the money, but not out for the service. They're out to serve. Sometimes I'll ask people, they're like, I don't want to feel pushy and slimy. And I'll be like, are you a slimy person? And they're like, well, no.

Brea: It's such an interesting conversation because we know that's true. I mean, anyone listening is like, yeah, duh, of course. But we don't feel that. It's a battle in our brains to believe that. And I wonder if part of it comes from when you are the product, as a service provider, it's me that people are buying. Perception matters because it's not just how they perceive you as a salesperson. You want them to perceive you as someone they can trust, someone that they can partner with and work with for a long time, someone that they can refer to their friends. I mean, there's so much wrapped up in how they perceive you. And it's just too easy to wrap that up with our own identity.

Lisa: Yeah. Oh, I think the audience will really resonate with that. I just delivered a training yesterday where someone brought up exactly that point where you said, it's me. She raised that idea like, so when a no is a rejection of me, it feels like It feels that way. Right. Versus is it a fit or not? It's just a rejection that it's not a fit right now for whatever various reasons. And I think I would lead into another money block and it is this thing I hear from coaches and trainers and speakers when they're newer in the business. And it's, I'm not going to charge market rates until I'm more experienced. So there's this thing, there's this waiting, I'm not ready yet, I'm not good enough yet, some of that underlying stuff. And on one hand, I can totally appreciate it. Like, okay, if you feel like you're in the apprentice phase, charge apprentice rates, it's all great. But for a lot of people, like we're talking about someone who already spent 15 years being in talent development, they've been delivering and these amazing corporate audiences, they have a PhD in industrial organizational psychology, they're ready. They're ready. They're hedging and that thing feels comfortable to be like, I'm going to discount, I'm going to charge less, I'm going to get in. So it's always relative. Number one, if you think, oh my gosh, who am I to charge $300 for a coaching session? It's one hour of my time. When I was in corporate, if you translated my salary, it would come down to this, it would be less. You can come up with these rationalizations. And meanwhile, there's a person next door to you who is charging $3,000 for a one hour virtual training. And there's someone next door to them charging $30,000 for their program. And I bring up that relative thing. I'm always talking about adding zeros, dropping zeros. And if you really search around, I mean, there are plenty of speakers. I am not exaggerating. There are plenty of speakers who charge $30,000 for a speech. It's for 45 minutes or an hour. And people gladly exchange the money for that. So Then saying how could I charge $300 for an hour sounds absurd related to $30,000. So there's always someone relative who will be willing to charge less, who will be willing to charge more, who is presumably like more able to command those rates because of experience, exposure, whatever they've done to build their business, market their business, et cetera. So it's not a, logical thing that I'm not going to charge rates until I'm more experienced for most people. The beginner rate kind of thing. I think it's a fallacy. I think most people we work with are ready and they've been ready a long time and it's just a way to feel comfortable. And then of course you anchor your clients in those low rates forever and it's kind of brings its own things to, to, um, overcome later, which can be a pricing episode conversation.

Brea: Yeah, undercharging is such a, that's such a big money block. And there are so many reasons why people undercharge. You know, I don't feel good enough. That sounds to me like a shadow side of responsibility or learner or, you know, some of these themes that really value excellence. And they see that there's so much more that they can learn, so many more certifications that they could have. So to you, it might seem like you're not ready, right? My experience in nonprofit spaces There's a lot of money blocks that I see from coaches who just expect, they just assume that the nonprofit can't pay or the church can't pay. Let me tell you. I've worked with some nonprofits that have more expendable income than a lot of for-profit organizations, businesses, companies, because they have to spend it every year. There's a deadline, you know? Yeah, it's interesting the blocks that we put in, whether it's because of my upbringing thinking like, oh, because we were poor, everybody's poor, right? I never had money, so I don't know that other people have money, right? If $100 feels like a lot to me, because I never saw a $100 bill until, I don't know when, but I mean,

Lisa: But that's that relative thing. Yeah. That's right. For one person, a hundred dollar bill is a ton of money. For the next person, their parents had a hundred dollar bill dispenser. Anytime they needed it, it was just a little bit. So it depends.

Brea: I love how you're bringing this up. You can't expect or assume because you just don't know and you don't know until you ask. And what do you say, Lisa, about asking?

Lisa: What do I say? Do I have a saying about asking that I've forgotten? You don't ask, the answer is no. Yeah, the answer is no. Yes, I do have a saying, I forgot.

Brea: Yeah, if you don't ask, the answer is no.

Lisa: That's right. Oh, I love how you've twisted this into like a full continuum because I was thinking very much about that person who has that underlying I'm not worthy element, but you know, you don't realize that, but that's a lot of times that's what's underneath. this thing about not charging market rates. And you have this full continuum you've revealed all the way over to just simple assumptions. And funny enough, this came up in the same workshop I was talking about that I delivered yesterday. Somebody mentioned that very thing about nonprofits. If you've grown up in that world, you might assume no one has money. But I know personally from my business, although I didn't specialize in nonprofits, I have a lot of them on my client roster. And some of them came across as like really struggling for funds and others came across as absolutely flush with funds and would say as much and what I expressed to this person yesterday was the thing about nonprofits that's so cool is they're so used to fundraising. They're so open about saying, I don't have money for that, that if you offer your actual market rate and they don't have money for that, that's what they're going to say. They're not going to run away and say, oh, I'm going to ghost this person and never respond if you've built some rapport and they like you. They're going to say, Oh my gosh, we don't have that budget at all. We were expecting them to spend X. They tell you they're one of the most upfront markets I've ever been around. So why offer something tiny, making an assumption upfront.

Brea: Yes. And also what I'm, in my experience, they are very upfront. They'll say, we don't have the money and I can come back and say, okay, great. Where can you get it? Because they are very comfortable with fundraising. They, that's how they get all of their money. So if they don't have it now, they have a list of, you know, thousands of donors that It's got to be one person on that list that is passionate about you know, supporting whatever it is You know talent development for for the team so it's almost easier for them to add things into the budget that aren't already there because Because they can you know, it's very different that way then different than a corporate budget. That's like locked in, you know So far in advance and there's just no No to little wiggle room, you know Yes, yeah, I think this is a fun tour.

Lisa: I like the idea that we all Experience money we all exchange money We all have a narrative on money whether it's absolute abundance or absolute scarcity and all the things in between and they're not static. Sometimes they change depending on where we are in our lives and different phases. And it's a great one to check in on and just ask yourself, do you have any money narratives going on right now that you think are getting in the way of your life goals, your business goals, and what could it look like to work on that block?

Brea: Yeah. So I'll summarize by, Just kind of summarizing the blocks that I think we identified, undercharging for whatever reason, a fear of selling, maybe because of rejection or even I don't know how to do it. We didn't talk about that, but I think a lot of people, they've seen it done poorly and they don't know how to do it well. So there's a fear there of selling. I would call my early comments about having a resistance to investing in yourself, investing in your business, you know, that feels luxurious when we need to just kind of cover our survival first. And then I wish we could do, maybe we'll do a whole nother episode on this idea that work has to be hard. Right, and there's so much guilt that people carry. We're making money doing something that you love and this is the core of strengths is that you can and you you should if I may should on our listeners we We should be able to do what we love every day and sometimes we feel guilty getting paid for that.

Lisa: So Right a lot of money blocks that I heard Yeah, I would add I'm not ready. That one is kind of the undertone on the, I'm not going to charge market rate yet, but I will maybe someday in the future later.

Brea: Yes.

Lisa: And those who decided that selling is slimy and therefore they get a money block around it because they won't open their mind to the opposite that selling is helping.

Brea: Yeah. So find someone else to sell for you. If really you can't get around it, then don't try. Because here's the thing is that when you show up and you aren't confident in yourself or in your business, nobody is going to buy from you. Nobody wants that, right? You are the one person that should be most confident about what you're selling. And so if you're not feeling confident for whatever reason, there are other things in your personal life that are affecting how you're feeling that day. It's important to make sure that you've slept and that you've drank water and you've moved your body and you've gotten some sunshine, like all of those things affect your energy and and how you feel and how you're thinking about yourself and your business. And that all comes into your sales calls. So mindset is a huge part of it, but make sure that you're being a good boss to yourself and you are setting yourself up for success so that you are not the money block. Get yourself out of the way.

Lisa: Yes. And you know, I'll just, add on to your closing thought by affirming that and saying, I worked on sales teams, I worked in sales, and then later served sales teams internally in multiple ways. And look, this is a thing for sellers. It is known on all these teams. People get on a roll. They will be on fire, unstoppable. And then they'll get in a rut, and they cannot get out of the rut. And so much of it is the mindset, and it's the literal state. They're allowing themselves to stay in, whether it's a high or whether it's a low. And we can change our state in the moment. We can change the energy we bring to a room. And if you have one of these blocks about selling and you've decided it's a bad, icky thing, then every time you decide, oh, I'm flipping into sales mode. Oops, I guess I'm icky. Now your whole energy changes, your dynamic, the way you feel, the way you come across, the way they receive you, your confidence, all of that changes. Your speech patterns, they feel it. I can't hide it. Yes. This is why it's so important to get your mind right around it because if you bring that energy where it's like, you gotta buy this, it's so incredible, everyone needs this, it's amazing. That is a totally different place from like, okay, now we gotta pause and talk about the icky stuff. That totally changes the momentum and they pick up on that and their momentum changes as well. So I totally agree with that. 100%.

Brea: This is not the place to fake it until you make it here. People see right through it, just like you have seen right through the slimy salesperson. So just be confident in what you're bringing and who you are. And if you can see sales, like Lisa said, if you can see it as an opportunity to to help to fix a problem. You're giving them a solution. You're making their life better. You're giving them the tools that they need to improve their life or their business. I mean, come at it from a strengths lens and you'll win every time.

Lisa: You will win. Yes. Come on. Let's go. All right, if you need work on this, if you're like, I'm hearing you, but I am not there, leadthroughstrengths.com slash getcoached. I would be happy to coach you on the mindset side of it. Or tools for coaches is the other link from the main menu where you can be around other people who are constantly working on business acumen, mindset, et cetera. How about if they want to work with you, Brea?

Brea: Yeah. Well, we've got some listeners who have been coming to these little meetups to discuss the podcast episodes. So if you'd like to talk to me and other listeners about the money blocks that you're experiencing and how to get over it, just go to the website, brea roper.com and you can sign up for the invite to those zoom meetups. Zoom, zoom,

Lisa: zoom, zoom, zoom on over there.

Brea: All right. Money, money,

Lisa: money.

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The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.