Do you know what your incentive programs are actually incentivizing once they enter the real world? Semler Brossy's Phil Pinnell and Claremont McKenna professor of economics Cameron Shelton dig into the psychology behind incentive design — status vs. money, why quantifiable targets can backfire, the pitfalls of "Goodhart's Law," and what a founder who redirected his own pay package to charity can teach us about what actually motivates people.

Executive pay didn't get complicated by accident. Roger Brossy, co-founder of Semler Brossy, has advised boards on compensation since 1981 — and he traces today's executive compensation landscape back to some unexpected starting points. He walks the arc from leveraged buyouts to option expensing to say on pay, explains why the quantum in the proxy is almost never the number an executive takes home, and tells the story of a business that incentivized the exact opposite behavior of what they paid for.

Human capital used to be a once-a-year discussion for boards, if they formally covered the topic at all. Now HCM issues are standing items on the board agenda — and AI is accelerating the need for these discussions even more. Semler Brossy's Blair Jones and Bertha Masuda join us to unpack how the comp committee's mandate has expanded to cover talent, culture, and workforce strategy, what the strongest boards do differently, why engagement surveys alone won't tell you where your culture needs to go, and how HCM oversight can be a key facet of emerging AI talent strategies.

Austin Vanbastelaer, Managing Partner at Semler Brossy, joins the show to unpack how to design executive incentives when there's no template to follow — mid-transformation, pre-revenue, or in the middle of a high-stakes transaction. He shares real examples of creative award design, explains where proxy advisor frameworks fall short of good pay design in practice, and offers guidance for building incentive programs that stakeholders can comprehend, drive long-term value creation, and motivate the Board's desired behavior.