Leading Ideas Talks

How can leaders think outside of the box? In this episode we discuss innovation, entrepreneurial ministry, and leadership with Kenda Creasy Dean, the Mary D. Synnott Professor of Youth, Church, and Culture at Princeton Theological Seminary.

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Announcer: Leading Ideas Talks is brought to you by the Lewis Center for Church Leadership of Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC. Subscribe free to our weekly newsletter at www.churchleadership.com/leadingideas.

Leading Ideas Talks is also brought to you by Discovering God’s Future for Your Church. This turn-key video tool kit helps your congregation discern and implement God’s vision for your church’s next faithful steps. Discovering God’s Future for Your Church is available on download and DVD at churchleadership.com/shop.

How can leaders think outside of the box? In this episode we discuss innovation, entrepreneurial ministry, and leadership with Kenda Creasy Dean, the Mary D. Synnott Professor of Youth, Church, and Culture at Princeton Theological Seminary.

Doug Powe: Welcome to Leading Ideas Talks, a podcast featuring thought leaders and innovative practitioners. I’m Douglas Powe, the director of the Lewis Center and your host for this talk. Joining me is Rev. Dr. Kenda Creasy Dean, the Mary D. Synnott Professor of Youth, Church, and Culture at Princeton Theological Seminary. She’s also the author of several books – “Almost Christian,” being one of my favorites. Our focus for this podcast is innovation. Kenda, I’m really glad you could join us today.

Kenda Creasy Dean: Thanks.

Doug: And I want to begin, you co-founded an organization called Ministry Incubators. And in part, you help ministry entrepreneurs to thrive. Can you define the meaning of entrepreneur within a church context?

Kenda: Sure, yeah! Thank you for having this conversation. The way – we call it Ministry Incubators — because, basically, we think, it’s a hope that it will be an unnecessary conversation soon because every church will become a Ministry Incubator, which I think is what we’re called to be. But when we talk about entrepreneurship, it’s a term that’s a little bit troubling because people associate it with business. But the origin of the word comes from a French root which means “an undertaking in between.” So what entrepreneurs do, is they create undertakings that happen in the gaps. You know, they’re trying to fill the gaps between what’s already there. So, anybody who’s got an entrepreneurial spirit, which I really think Christian community leaders should be “Exhibit A” of that, is looking for “What are the gaps?” “Where are the seams coming apart?” “What needs to be created to bring this community together?” And that is an entrepreneur’s way of thinking. So, I do think that entrepreneurship is a fundamental skill for all ministry. For some people that comes more naturally. Some people feel like that’s riskier. But the truth is that almost anybody who goes into ministry, de facto has some of that DNA in them because they’re looking for how to address the pain points. And there’s a gap that needs to be filled. And that’s what an entrepreneur does.

Doug: I really appreciate the way that you talk about the gap and the ability to fill the gap. And you mention that you think that people who go into ministry have some of this in their DNA. But, as you know, there seem to be some who have more of it in their DNA than others. So, can you say a little bit about what you think brings that – I don’t know what word you want to use – Why they have more in their DNA? Or how they flourish in a more entrepreneurial way than others do?

Kenda: Yeah, well I have to say that churches are not – have not become, now this is not true to who we are historically. But as we have become more and more calcified as instituti

How can congregations imaginatively use their space? In this episode we speak with Bob Jaeger, president of Partners for Sacred Places, about re-imagining the space in your church building.

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Announcer: Leading Ideas Talks is brought to you by the Lewis Center for Church Leadership of Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC. Subscribe free to our weekly newsletter at www.churchleadership.com/leadingideas.

Leading Ideas Talks is brought to you by Protect, Sustain, Grow: Best Practices for Handling Your Church’s Money. Whether it’s your first time dealing with church finances or you’ve been handling them for years, this video tool kit will help you provide financial integrity and sustainability for your church, as well as expand your church’s income. Learn more and watch an introductory video at at churchleadership.com/shop.

How can congregations imaginatively use their space? In this episode we speak with Bob Jaeger, president of Partners for Sacred Places, about re-imagining the space in your church building.

Doug Powe: Welcome to Leading Ideas Talks, a podcast featuring thought leaders and innovative practitioners. I’m Douglas Powe the director of the Lewis Center and your host for this talk. Joining me is Bob Jeager, the president of Partners for Sacred Places. Our focus for this podcast is helping congregations to reimagine building and space usage. I want to remind our listeners to please subscribe at ITunes and Stitcher and to give us a 5-star rating.

Bob, I’m so glad you can join us for this talk. I want to begin by asking, can you say just a bit about the work and mission of the Partners for Sacred Places?

Bob Jeager: Well sure, Doug. And thank you for inviting me to talk a bit about our work. It’s exciting to do so. Actually, this month is our thirtieth anniversary. We’re excited because we have grown and changed over the years, but we have also been very faithful to our original mission, which has really been to help both congregations and their communities find ways to keep our sacred places cared for and active and useful in living out the mission of the church. We have grown and changed in some ways, because we’ve don’t a lot of research which shows how sacred places serve a larger community role as well as a place where worships happen, and where religious education is done, and where congregations are living out their life. But they are also places that serve the larger community. So, a lot of our work is hands on work to help congregations make the most of their older buildings to live out their larger mission and keep these places alive and well.

 Doug: You talk about the spaces being critical to the community. Can you say a little bit about how you try to help congregations that are in transitioning communities to stay relevant to their community when in many cases they aren’t actually reaching the individuals in the community in terms of coming to worship or other opportunities at the congregation?

Bob: Yeah, that’s a really good question. A lot of our work starts with helping a congregation understand and articulate its value — both to its members and the larger community. And we kind of help congregations develop a case for why you should care. What have we done in this community? What do we mean to this community?  What does this building mean? Who have we served over the years? So, a part of our work is training churches to develop a case statement. What are all the reasons this place and this congregation means something important to you as a member of o the community? That is kind of really fundamental – telling your story and finding ways to deliver that story to the people around you is a very key part of what we do.

But a more recent development is that we do asset thinking and asset mapping with congregations. In fact, more and more often congregations are asking us to come in and help them pull together a community advisory committee that leads to a big asse

Why do some congregations grow more quickly than others? In this episode we speak with Matt Miofsky, founding and lead pastor of The Gathering in St. Louis, about the book he wrote with Jason Byassee, 8 Virtues of Rapidly Growing Churches.

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Why do some congregations grow more quickly than others? In this episode we speak with Rev. Matt Miofisky, the founding and lead pastor of The Gathering in St. Louis, about his co-authored book 8 Virtues of Rapidly Growing Churches.

Leading Ideas Talks is brought to you by the e-book Right Questions for Church Leaders. Leaders don’t need answers. Leaders must have the right questions. And this e-book offers key questions that can change the direction of a church. Right Questions for Church Leaders is available at churchleadership.com/books.

Doug Powe: Welcome to Leading Ideas Talks, a podcast featuring thought leaders and innovative practitioners. I’m Douglas Powe, the director of the Lewis Center and your host for this talk. Joining me is Reverend Matt Miofsky, the founding and lead pastor of the Gathering in St. Louis, MO. Our focus for this podcast is the virtues of rapidly growing churches.

Matt, you have co-authored a book with Jason Byasse “8 Virtues of Rapidly Growing Churches” that I believe can help any congregation to look at its core practices and a book that I believe every congregation really should pick up and put to use. But I really want to begin our conversation by asking you, why did you all use the term “virtue” to describe the characteristics of rapidly growing churches?

Matt Miofsky: Hey yeah, that’s a good question. Thanks for having me on Doug.  It’s good to be with you. And you know, I’ll have to be honest, part of that word was kind of a feeling that characteristic or attribute –you know, both of those were both alternatives — eight attributes, eight characteristics. First of all, those words didn’t seem to mean much. Maybe they’re a bit overused. They also didn’t necessarily note something that was good, just the commonalities that things have. And we really wanted, we love the word virtue because it has a little bit of a root in the Christian tradition. But it also denotes not only eight similarities, but these are eight things that we think every church would do well to strive for. They don’t just happen to be common characteristics but they’re actually aspirational. Every church, we think, ought to be going for these kinds of things anyways. So, we thought the nuance of the word virtue got at that better than just simply being eight commonalities or eight characteristics.

Doug Powe: I really like the word aspirational that you’re using because I think that it points to something that is important for congregations and I appreciate the way you frame that because I think, too often, congregations think in terms of goals or, I can do this, and figure out how to accomplish this, then I’m done. But when you think aspirational, it means it’s something that’s ongoing. Is that sort of the hope that you all were having, that this would be a thing?

Matt Miofsky: Yeah. You know, that really was the hope. I didn’t want to simply come up with a recipe for churches but I loved about these is, even in doing the research for these, and I can talk a little bit about where the book came from, you know. Jason Byasse, the co-author, he came to me. It started out because he was interested in five Methodist Churches that had grown over 1,000 in worship but were started in the past ten years. He said there were five at the time. This was several years ago. And he listed off the five and the Gathering in St. Louis, the Church I pastor, was one of them. And he said “I want to write this profile on these five churches, I think that’d be really interesting.” I kind of said to him “you know, hey Jason, respectfully, I don’t think

How can a pastor avoid common pitfalls and make the most of opportunities when moving from one congregation to the next? In this episode we speak with Lovett H. Weems, Jr., about how to plan for a pastoral transition, leave well, and get off to a strong start in a new church.

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Ann A. Michel

Lovett H. Weems, Jr.

Announcer: How can a pastor avoid common pitfalls and make the most of opportunities when moving from one congregation to the next? In this episode we speak with Lovett H. Weems, Jr., about how to plan for a pastoral transition, leave well, and get off to a strong start in a new church.

Ann Michel: I’m Ann Michel, host of this Leading Ideas Talks podcast. And I’m happy to be talking again with my esteemed colleague, Dr. Lovett H. Weems, Jr. Lovett is the founding director of our Lewis Center for Church leadership and he’s now serving with us as a senior consultant. We’re going to be chatting today about the subject of pastoral transitions. When a clergy person leaves one church and begins ministry in another. So welcome, Lovett, glad to have you here today.

Lovett Weems: Thank you, happy to be with you.

Ann Michel: So over the years, Lovett, of course, has been a prominent voice on so many important subjects related to church leadership but the subject of pastoral transition has been one that has received a lot of his attention through research and teaching and various workshops that he’s taught over the years. Let me begin by asking this: why is it so important for congregations and for pastoral leaders to be intentional when a change in clergy leadership is occurring?

Lovett Weems: Transitions are always times of great opportunity and great vulnerability. They’re great opportunities because you have new leadership coming, or a leader is going into a new situation. But there’s also great vulnerability because someone is going from what’s known to what’s unknown and a congregation is going from what’s known to what’s unknown. So, at a personal level, for the pastor, for any family, for any networks of support, it’s a critical time. But for organizations, including congregations, any time there is a change of leadership it’s a very important time and needs to be handled very well.

Ann Michel: I’ve heard you talk in many different situations on how leaders really grow during critical junctures. And I think that probably a transition is that time of a critical juncture when there’s an opportunity for growing as a leader. Do you think that’s the case?

Lovett Weems: Absolutely. But there’s also a tendency for someone to think, whether this is a pastor or someone at a secular job, that what they have done up to that point was good enough to bring them this far and it will be good enough to take them the next step. And it almost never is. It seems like that you’re going to be doing something very similar to what you’ve done before. and you’re going to be in the same denomination. And you may even be going to a church that’s somewhat similar to the church you’ve served. and yet, we have to realize that everything is changing. And so, the very skills that a pastor used in their early days to pay attention, to notice what’s going on, to pick up signals about how they’re being received, you have to do that again. So with time, pastors gain confidence. But sometimes it can be overconfidence. I’ve seen this, I’ve done this, I can do it. And yet, they need to go back into a learning mode in order to be able to make the most out of this new opportunity.

Ann Michel: Yeah, so it’s important for even an experienced pastor to recognize that a change is always going to bring new challenges and new ways of growing, really. I think many of our listeners, whether they’re pastors or congregants, may well have lived through pastoral transitions, perhaps many. Some might have gone well, perha

How can your congregation be more attentive to those in the community? In this episode we discuss leading in a changing culture with Dr. Juan Francisco Martínez, Professor of Hispanic Studies and Pastoral Leadership at the Fuller School of Theology in Pasadena, California. His most recent book is The Story of Latino Protestants in the United States (Eerdmans, 2018).

Related Resources

Taking Church to the Community Video Tool Kit

Key Observations for Reaching Latino/a Populations by Lovett H. Weems, Jr.

5 Key Practices for Connecting with Your Context by Mark Gornik and Maria Liu Wong

How can people of faith bring their values to work in government and the public square? Listen as Ann Michel speaks with Mike McCurry, former White House Press Secretary and Director of Wesley Theological Seminary’s Center for Public Theology.

Related Resources

“Sacred Resistance,” a Leading Ideas Talks podcast episode featuring Ginger Gaines-Cirelli

Leading Faithfully in the Public Square by Amy Butler

Center for Public Theology of Wesley Theological Seminary

 

How can a congregation focus intentionally on addressing implicit racism within its own institutional and community life? In this episode Amanda Poppei, Senior Leader of the Washington Ethical Society, describes how her community has made anti-racism work an overarching priority — shaping its identity and congregational practices.

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Has stewardship become a dirty word in your congregation? Stewardship consultant Cesie Delve Scheuermann speaks with Lewis Center Associate Director Ann Michel about cultivating generosity through simple practices of gratitude and sharing the good that money can do in the church and the world.

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Looking for practical strategies to more effectively engage others and lead change? Listen as leadership expert Lovett H. Weems Jr. shares some of his sage advice on the attitudes and practices that can help church leaders thrive.

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How can white Christians talk faithfully about racism? In this episode Carolyn Helsel discusses her book, Anxious to Talk about It, with Lewis Center Associate Director Ann Michel.

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