Learn, Make, Learn

A question from a previous guest sparks this episode: Do we go “pro” in every product category or do we eschew the spec arms race & embrace “good enough”? We interrogate our own behaviors & share implications for people in the business of making products.

INTRO & FOLLOW-UPS – 02:51
Starbucks Follow-Up with Zoran Svetlicic
Generative AI x Product with Anmol Anubhai
What McDonald’s is REALLY Like in Italy
How to Try Int’l McDonald’s Menu Items in the US

JOACHIM’S PROFILE PREFS FOR CLAUDE – 07:40

J’s TAKE: A PORTFOLIO APPROACH – 16:40
Testing the Same Products from 1975 and 2025
SHEIN's plan to take over FASHION

E’s TAKE: SPECIALISTS OVER GENERALISTS – 27:03
Do Pharmacists Buy Bayer? Informed Shoppers and the Brand Premium
Why Doesn't Everybody Buy Cheap, Generic Headache Medicine?
The Secrets of Shopping
The Rise of Indie Running Brands

SPECIALIZATION vs HYPERGROWTH – 34:43
How I Built This: Tim Leatherman
Pelican’s Indestructible Cases
The Furniture Systems Of USM Haller

LESSONS FOR PRODUCT PEOPLE – 42:12
Military can’t repair its own equipment
Bad Dye Job

RECOMMENDATIONS – 48:33
The Enshittifinancial Crisis
Matthew Wilcock: 058 Motorway Cycle XI
FlowingData: Best Data Visualizations of 2025
Notion
Phantom Thread
Dior and I on Apple TV & YouTube
Sentimental Value

CLOSING – 01:00:02

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Rant, rave or otherwise via email at [email protected] or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.

CREDITS
Theme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Drum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

We get the inside scoop on The Brand Studios master’s program at CU Boulder from its co-directors, Parisa Tashakori & Jeff Gillette. Unique in its accelerated 12-month span & remit across both experience design and creative advertising, the program welcomes those with a passion to “put your weird to work.” Is it right for you?

INTRO & FOLLOW-UPS – 00:55
Why is Design So Boring? with Nate Grubbs
LAP Coffee
The LAP coffee Berlin backlash: when innovation meets resistance
Ernest to present at Creative Mornings on Dec. 12th

MEET PARISA TASHAKORI & JEFF GILLETTE – 10:07
Parisa’s faculty profile
Jeff’s faculty profile

ON ACADEMIA VS AGENCY LIFE – 13:52
Higher ed must do more to support teaching

THE BRAND STUDIOS: THE WHAT & THE WHY – 19:11
The Brand Studios at CU Boulder
AdAge: New portfolio school aims to fill a widening gap in training junior ad professionals in the wake of AI (paywall)

WHO IS THE PROGRAM FOR? – 36:34
The Students

ON STAYING SMALL & HUMAN – 41:09

GEN AI & BETTING ON CREATIVITY – 49:22
John Maeda on the Design Better podcast
Cory Doctorow: Reverse centaurs are the answer to the AI paradox

WEIRDOS WELCOME & HOW TO APPLY – 56:43
Ready to apply?

RECOMMENDATIONS – 01:01:55
Parisa: The Collaborative Habit
Jeff: The Art of Whittling & Atomic Habits
Joachim: BOSS Katana-AIR EX & Swag Lee’s Habibi Loops
Ernest: Hamnet (the novel), Lavinia & A Larger Reality at Ox

CLOSING – 01:13:26

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Rant, rave or otherwise via email at [email protected] or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.

CREDITS
Theme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Drum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

We're joined by Zoran Svetlicic for this fast follow-up to our previous episode on Starbucks’ struggles. A strategist & builder with deep expertise in brand and food & beverage, Zoran pulls no punches in his diagnosis of Starbucks’ ills. And, along the way, schools us on positioning, brand architecture & natural wine.

INTRO & FOLLOW-UPS – 00:39
Starbucks’ Struggles and Lessons for Product People

MEET ZORAN + CONTEXT SETTING – 04:09
Zoran Svetlicic on LinkedIn
Third-Wave Coffee
NYT Books review of Seeing Like a State

DIAGNOSING STARBUCKS’ STRUGGLES – 11:56
Mark Ritson: Starbucks needs to cut the crap from its brand positioning
Brand Architecture
Nestlé Takes Majority Stake in Blue Bottle (paywall)

STARBUCKS RESERVE STRATEGY – 25:17
What is the Starbucks Reserve brand — and where is it going?
Traditional vs. Occasion-Based Segmentation

HETEROGENEITY AT SCALE: McDONALD’S – 32:45
McD’s passes Starbucks as world’s most valuable restaurant brand
McD’s Just Dropped a Happy Meal Collab Straight Out of the ’90s
Why The French Love American Fast Food
For Some Travelers, McD’s Is a Destination (paywall)

GLOBAL + LOCAL: COCA-COLA – 42:12
Coca-Cola Visual ID: Before & After
We leverage design to create simplicity: David Butler
Share a Coke campaign learnings

LESSONS FROM NATURAL WINE – 55:31

RECOMMENDATIONS – 01:05:16
Raisin
Piquentum Wines & Label
UNSTUCK newsletter
M5Stack Core2
Yowana & Supwell

CLOSING – 01:17:36

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Rant, rave or otherwise via email at [email protected] or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.

CREDITS
Theme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Drum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

What can product people learn from Starbucks’ recent struggles, and how are these lessons linked to a venerable British book retailer, an upstart French running brand, and a barmy Japanese watchmaker?

INTRO & FOLLOW-UPS – 02:47
Starbucks closing stores
SPVs, Credit, and AI Datacenters
This is How the AI Bubble Will Pop
Neue Klasse – 60 Years of the BMW 1500
World Premiere of the new BMW iX3
BMW Hofmeister Knick—Behind the Lines

STARBUCKS’ STRUGGLES – 14:08
No Logo at 20
Globalization and Its Discontents
The Walmart Effect
100 Cups of Coffee in a City on Fire

ANTI-HOMOGENEITY FTW – 21:08
Why high street coffee chains may have had their day
Why Are Independent Coffee Shops Succeeding?
Starbucks' Digital Dilemma

LESSONS FOR PRODUCT PEOPLE – 36:00
Seeing Like a State
Metis matters
Lessons learnt from Waterstones’​ turnaround
Personality Disorders and Culture
SATISFY
How Satisfy Got the Cool Kids Into Running
Ernest’s G-SHOCK Frogman
Ibe Kikuo and the Development of the G-Shock
G-SHOCK GA-V01

RECOMMENDATIONS – 57:19
Alien: Earth
Alien: Earth soundtrack
The Ballad of Wallis Island
Charlie Brooker’s Screenwipe

CLOSING – 01:11:08

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Rant, rave or otherwise via email at [email protected] or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.

CREDITS
Theme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Drum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

Ernest & Joachim go deep on Raymond Loewy’s MAYA Principle: what it is & why it matters, with real world examples of MAYA in action, and what can happen when product teams fail to take the principle to heart.

FOLLOW-UPS – 01:00
Toolbox: How “Jobs To Be Done” Can Help You Make, Better
Fortis Marinemaster

A BRIEF INTRO TO RAYMOND LOEWY – 06:04
MoMA on Raymond Loewy
60 Minutes: Raymond Loewy, Father of Industrial Design

LOEWY’S MAYA PRINCIPLE – 09:07
The MAYA Principle in Design
The iPhone only exists because Steve Jobs ‘hated this guy at Microsoft’
Phil Knight: Shoe Dog
How One Designer Saved Tesla From Bankruptcy TWICE

IS MAYA INHERENTLY CONSERVATIVE? – 19:36
Apple and the MAYA Principle
Remembering Apple’s Newton, 30 years on

MUST BE ROOTED IN EMPATHY & COMPASSION – 24:44
Raymond Loewy and the Skylab Window

APPLICATIONS BEYOND PRODUCT – 28:20
The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (via Wayback Machine)
BMW Is a Surprise Winner in Electric Vehicles (paywall)
Goodbye to the BMW i3—an Icon of the 21st Century (paywall)
The Newton Messagepad was Well Ahead of its Time
General Magic documentary
Intellectual Distance, Novelty, and Resource Allocation in Science

RECOMMENDATIONS – 42:48
Patrick McGee: Apple in China
Hidden Forces podcast: Patrick McGee
EBL rechargeable AA batteries (link to Wirecutter review)

CLOSING – 49:34

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Rant, rave or otherwise via email at [email protected] or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.

CREDITS
Theme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Drum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

E & J return from a spring hiatus to discuss a range of topics, from WWDC 2025 to the Era of the Business Idiot, and more.

WATCHES & WONDERS – 04:09
Don DeLillo: Cosmopolis
IWC Presents A Plethora Of New Ingenieur Watches
How The Pursuit Of Status Shapes Our Aesthetics
The Nomos Club Sport Neomatik Worldtimer
NOMOS Lounge, New York City
TAG Heuer Formula 1 - They got it wrong!

SLATE AUTO – 22:52
Slate Auto Reveal Event
Customer service satisfaction of EV owners lower than ICE vehicles
Kia, Build This EV Overland Camper Van!
Top Gear: The Indestructible Toyota Hilux (full episode)

WWDC 2025 – 33:49
From Skeuomorphic to Liquid Glass
How the Graphical User Interface was Invented
WWDC 1997: Steve Jobs Q&A (tense exchange at 50:25)
Bill Gates: “Internet Tidal Wave”
Apple study challenges whether AI models truly “reason”

DISCORD & COMPLEXITY – 54:29
How Discord Indexes Trillions of Messages
Ink & Switch
Quiet

RECS – 01:03:28
The Era Of The Business Idiot
Better Offline podcast
‘Andor’ Season 2
UConnPopCast
Rebecca Solnit: Men Explain Things to Me
What Makes Art ‘Left Wing’?
The Rehearsal

CLOSING – 01:22:00

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Rant, rave or otherwise via email at [email protected] or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.

CREDITS
Theme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Drum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

We return from hibernation to talk AI nonsense, critique the review industrial complex, promote a return to RSS, and share a raft of recommendations!

JOACHIM ON AI NONSENSE – 01:52
Previous Discussion of Humane AI (starts at 18:34)
Humane Set to Brick $700 ‘AI Pins’
I outsourced my memory to an AI pin and all I got was fanfiction
Ben Thompson: DeepSeek FAQ
Previous Discussion on LLMs & Constraints (starts at 02:33)
“Low-Resource” Text Classification

ERNEST ON THE REVIEW INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX – 09:41
Motor Trend: 2021 MINI Cooper SE
America’s Commute to Work Is Getting Longer (paywall)
CNET: 2022 Mini Cooper SE
James Hoffmann’s reviews
Sigma BF Review: Beautiful Foolishness
By contrast ... I took 1,000 photos with the Sigma BF
GxAce YouTube channel
Chris Harris on the Mercedes-AMG A45 S
How Ferrari Spins

IMPLICATIONS FOR PRODUCT CREATORS? – 26:07
Americans Are Obsessed With the Wrong Trucks
TELO MT1
Remembering Nike’s Sandy Bodecker

JOACHIM ON RSS & MORE – 31:37
Inoreader
Catherine Shannon: Your phone is why you don’t feel sexy
Tracy Durnell: In praise of the hundred page idea
In Praise of Shadows
Kenya Hara: White
Timothy Snyder: On Tyranny
Harry G. Frankfurt: On Bullshit
Perfect Days
Perfect Day (Komorebi Version)

SHOULD WE START A DISCORD? – 41:22

CLOSING – 42:02

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Rant, rave or otherwise via email at [email protected] or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.

CREDITS
Theme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Drum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

Ernest’s experience with a boundary-breaking headphone sparks a discussion on caveat emptor, or buyer beware, and just how much risk we, as product creators, should expect buyers to bear.

FOLLOW-UPS – 01:15
MKBHD, Panels & Pricing
WTF Happened in 2024?!
I Love You, Man: The Male Friendship Recession
Why Are Boys and Men in Trouble?

CAVEAT EMPTOR? – 06:36
Caveat emptor
An ode to open-back headphones—and why I’d never go (closed-)back
What’s the difference between dynamic and planar magnetic drivers?
Audio46 Headphones
Sennheiser HD800S: Revisiting a Legend
Focal Clear MG
Hifiman Arya Stealth & Organic
Hifiman Arya Unveiled Review—The Next Best?
The most expensive headphone in the world is terrifying!
Are Hifiman Unveiled Headphones Safe?
With Just 8 Words, Steve Jobs Explained the Best Decision He Ever Made
Man Tests Tesla Cybertruck Trunk Sensor With His Finger
The Hidden Autopilot Data That Reveals Why Teslas Crash
IIHS tested Tesla Autopilot safeguards: Here’s what they found
Arrival or departure? The rise and fall of Britain’s EV unicorn
Interview with Hifiman CEO Dr. Fang Bian
‘The Beta Test’ Director Jim Cummings Wants to Liberate Indie Filmmaking

RECOMMENDATIONS – 51:07
Derek Guy: Die Workwear!
J’s year-end rec: Outlier Strongworks Pants
E’s year-end rec: OrSlow French Work Pants & Yamatomichi 5-Pocket Pants

CLOSING – 01:07:44

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Rant, rave or otherwise via email at [email protected] or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.

CREDITS
Theme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Drum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

A conversation triggered by MKBHD’s Panels app gets really interesting when we dig into pricing & lessons for people in the business of making products.

FOLLOW-UPS – 02:23
Are Pop Lyrics Getting More Repetitive?
How gamification took over the world
Can't Play, Won't Play
An Interview with Meta CTO Andrew Bosworth
Meta Connect Keynote 2024
Meta’s big tease

MKBHD, PANELS & PRICING – 07:30
Marques Brownlee
MKBHD’s first review
Marques Brownlee says ‘I hear you’ after fans criticize his new wallpaper app
YouTubers are not your friends
Why Criticism Still Matters

LESSON FOR PRODUCT CREATORS – 20:02
How Nike finally hacked skateboarding

ON PRICING – 23:42
Friedrich Hayek
Oskar R. Lange
Lange model
Kanopy
Taylor Swift–Ticketmaster controversy
The Changing Face Of The Secondary Market: Rolex CPO and more

RECOMMENDATIONS – 43:18
MUBI
The Substance on MUBI
The Fall on MUBI
Goeff McFetridge: Drawing a Life on MUBI
Thatcher had “phenomenal” impact on Britain’s cultural landscape
Bedrock Sandals
Creepers Socks
How Did Hokas Become So Popular? (paywall)

CLOSING – 56:29

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Rant, rave or otherwise via email at [email protected] or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.

CREDITS
Theme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Drum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com

We dive into our titular question with Nate Grubbs, who, unlike us, is a professional designer with strong views borne of decades of experience across UX, visual & product design.

MEET NATE – 01:18

THE AGE OF AVERAGE – 04:19
Alex Murrell: The age of average
The tyranny of the algorithm: why every coffee shop looks the same
How Khruangbin’s Sound Became the New Mood Music (paywall)

SOUL, FLASH & OLD MAN VIBES – 06:36
A Farewell to Adobe Flash—and the Messy, Glorious Web
Donnie Darko website
Félix Lapointe: Remembering Kai Power Tools
Artist at Play: An e-mail exchange with Kai Krause

A PERVASIVE FEAR OF FAILURE – 17:49
Please, Please Don’t A/B Test That
Study finds 268% higher failure rates for Agile software projects

SIGNS OF HOPE & BREAKING THROUGH – 23:27
Massimo Giunco: Nike, An Epic Saga of Value Destruction
The Father of Grunge Typography Calls Out Lazy Design
Paula Scher: Great design is serious (not solemn)
Kintsugi

CONSTRAINTS AS A CATALYST – 34:08
Why Constraints Are Good for Innovation
Daft Social
Start-Ups Surge in the Great Reset
Gnuhr
Physical music sales on course for first increase in 20 years

RECOMMENDATIONS – 45:45
Nate: Yoto
Ernest: A Different Man; related: The rise and rise of A24, a champion of storytelling on screen (paywall)
Joachim: I Saw the TV Glow; What You Are Looking for is in the Library

CLOSING – 56:57
NateGrubbs.com

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Rant, rave or otherwise via email at [email protected] or on Threads @LearnMakeLearnShow.

CREDITS
Theme: Vendla / Today Is a Good Day / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
Drum hit: PREL / Musical Element 85 / courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com