Learn With Less

On this episode of the Learn With Less® podcast, Ayelet sits down with early childhood educator, mother, parent educator, Learn With Less® facilitator, and the face behind Early Intervention Mama, Miranda Zoumbaris. Miranda lives in Lansing, Michigan, has two young children, and is an incredible gift to her community. She’s bringing families together and fostering positive relationships and confidence for new parents and caregivers by leading caregiver & me classes using the Learn With Less® curriculum.

Miranda is an early childhood educator and mother, who is a self described child development nerd. Miranda was inspired to grow and diversify the ways she could reach families in her community because she wanted to teach parents and caregivers new ways to experience joy with their babies and toddlers. To her, it’s always been a goal to take away worry, provide education, and infuse joy into everyday activities.

Miranda’s joy is infectious, and she has now been spreading it both as an active participant in our Learn With Less® facilitator community of educators and therapists, as well as in her community in and around Lansing, Michigan, with families who are experiencing her “caregiver & me” classes using the Learn With Less® curriculum.

Not familiar with the term, “caregiver & me” classes? We use it as a more inclusive term instead of “mommy & me” classes. Our classes are open – and meant for – ALL parents and caregivers: not just moms… but also dads, non-binary folks, grandparents, foster parents, babysitters, nannies, and other amazing grownups who care for tiny humans. We’re going to play the “search term” game here (so you can find this great content more easily!) and help shift the conversation from “mommy & me” classes to “caregiver & me” classes… to do our part to shape the more inclusive world we’d like to live in.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Surprises and unexpected difficulties Miranda faced when she became a mother, even though she has been working with new parents and young children for years
• The role empathy and self awareness plays in work with new families
• Why Miranda decided to become a parent educator and start her own small business to serve new parents and caregivers in her community
• The value of learning and sharing experiences in community with others going through the same journey
• Why a collaborative approach to learning is so important (both in business and in parenting)
• How Miranda moved through imposter syndrome (hint: the power of flexibility and adaptation)
• The ways in which her work as a parent educator using the Learn With Less® curriculum has shifted aspects of her own parenting
• Why Miranda ultimately decided to invest in herself and her business

Learn With Less® Stories: Podcast episodes and other interviews from educators who’ve provided the Learn With Less® infant/toddler family enrichment curriculum and families who’ve experienced our programming.

Learn With Less® Bundle: get our favorite infant and toddler development resources (save 70%)! Discover how to support & connect with your tiny human, without having to buy a single toy.

Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program: Use your existing skills as an educator or therapist to serve families holistically with a high quality program that will provide lasting impact! Apply now to become a licensed facilitator Learn With Less®.

Learn With Less® “Caregiver & Me” Classes: the magic of Learn With Less® lies in the communal aspect of coming together with our resources, in community with other families. Join us for a virtual or in-person class led by a licensed facilitator near you!

Miranda: Website / Instagram / Facebook / Eventbrite

Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest

Ayelet: Before we get started today, I want to let you know that if you are an educator or therapist interested in expanding your impact by using your existing skills to serve families holistically to diversify your offerings, I’d love to invite you to join us at the upcoming event I’ll be hosting, the Expand Your Impact Retreat. This will be a live virtual event on Saturday, January 15th, 2022. If you’re listening when this episode comes out, I’m sweetening the deal even more by giving you access to early bird pricing on your ticket, saving you 40% off the ticket price, until the end of 2021. Want to learn more about this event and grab your ticket? Just head on over to learnwithless.com/expand and join us now!

If you are a parent or caregiver interested in learning more about resources to help you feel confident you can support and connect with your tiny humans, we would love you to start by downloading my free infant/toddler development blueprint, over at learnwithless.com/blueprint, today!

Today, I’m joined by Miranda Zoumbaris. Miranda is an early childhood educator and mother, who is a self described child development nerd. Miranda was inspired to grow and diversify the ways she could reach families in her community because she wanted to teach parents and caregivers new ways to experience joy with their babies and toddlers. To her, it’s always been a goal to take away worry, provide education, and infuse joy into everyday activities.

Miranda’s joy is infectious, and she has now been spreading it both as an active participant in our Learn With Less® facilitator community of educators and therapists, as well as in her community in and around Lansing, Michigan, with families who are experiencing her “caregiver + child” classes using the Learn With Less® curriculum.

I’m so thrilled to share this episode with you, today!

Ayelet: Okay, today I have with me Miranda Zoumbaris. She’s an amazing early childhood educator, she is based around Lansing, Michigan, and she is a licensed Learn With Less® facilitator as well as being a mother and an incredible community member. Miranda, I’d love for you to just sort of introduce yourself, give us just a sense of who you are and how you came to be doing the things that you are doing today in the world.

Miranda: Yeah, I’m Miranda and I’m a self prescribed child development nerd that since the longest time I can remember, I’ve always loved children. And when I started my professional journey, I thought for sure I was going to be a teacher and quickly realized that I wanted to work with parents and caregivers, and the most important people to children. And so that’s kind of been my whole career is figuring that out: I love children. But what I love most of all, is parent-child dyad, or caregiver-child dyad. And so I’ve done home visiting for early Head Start. I’ve been a early interventionist with it, our Michigan Part C services, and have just spent my whole career working with families in their homes and playgroups, supporting them being their cheerleader, and being their coach.

I have a bachelor’s degree in child development and English, surprisingly, and just hadn’t found my niche of like, what do I want to do in terms of a master’s degree? And what I’ve kind of figured out is, that’s because I love the whole child, I love looking at the whole aspect of child development. And that’s really what I think drove me to this program is that you have created a way for us to embrace that family dyad, you know, parent-child dyad. And also look at the whole child, and see them as a whole person, which is my area of expertise, looking at that whole child, whole family dynamic, and serving parents that way.

Ayelet: I love it. That’s great. It’s so wonderful to hear you describe what you do, because you do a lot for families, not only in Lansing, but also all over the world because you have an incredible Instagram following and really all over social media, but currently primarily on Instagram, you are Early Intervention Mama! Actually, can you tell us a little bit about when did you start that? And what made you decide to go ahead and do that? And like what was the impetus for that?

Miranda: So Early Intervention Mama, it was something I had in my head after I had my first baby. So this was like way pre pandemic before there was a lot of people on Instagram, I think that I just had in my head like, oh my gosh, I knew parenting was going to be hard. Like I went into it, you know, I remember having a family tell me, oh my gosh, you’re going to be such a good mom because you know, so many things. And my response to her was, I may know a lot of things, but there is so much that I have no idea about, and I those are the parts I can’t wait for to get into parenting. And those words just kept hitting me in waves – and are still hitting me in waves. That there is a lot to learn about parenting, I’m assuming forever and beyond, you know, it just keeps coming in.

So after having my first baby, I was like, Oh my gosh, I want to share the parts that are tough, and help families with that perspective of parenting has been challenging and hard for me. And there’s tough things to go through. And also I’ve got a background in child development and early intervention and helping families of littles who have delays and it’s all hard, and we can do it together, and we can do it simply. And so, in my head when I was putting together Early Intervention Mama, I saved the Instagram handle and I saved the Facebook page. And then about six months later I said to my husband who’s like my tech guru, hey, can you please save the website? You know? I’m not ready yet. But this is what I want to do. And yeah, then pandemic happened and I was postpartum with a baby, ready to head back from maternity leave as soon as the pandemic started, and really decided that I needed to amp up my game and Early Intervention Mama and yeah, here we are.

Ayelet: That was after your second child was born. Yes. Yes. Amazing. There’s so much there. I love it. And I also love Miranda how overlapping our stories are and our “why’s” are as far as like why we each you know started doing this because I absolutely hear my own sense of self in your story as well as far as having some knowledge of early child development, having some knowledge of what parents and families go through in those early years and then getting to do it one’s own self. And having some things go as expected and having some things go remarkably, I guess off kilter or totally surprising. Would you feel comfortable sharing with us a few of the things for you that were on the surprising side, or the current you off guard as far as coming into early parenthood yourself?

Miranda: Yeah. So my first one was such an incredibly tricky nurser. So I planned on breastfeeding and had in my head that like, this is what I wanted to do, it’s going to be super easy, watched my sister go through that. And it was so incredibly difficult that I just felt like this broken person, which is not anything that anybody should feel going into parenthood. And so that really just created a lot of stress for me of what I had maybe envisioned, you know, the things that I felt like, Oh, this is natural, this is going to be easy, you know, I’ve never judged anybody for how they feed their baby, I think everybody needs to do what is right for them. And this is what I thought was right for me and what was going to work for me.

It just was so challenging that I think that just really put me on a perspective of you know, you have to be flexible in parenting. And right from the start, you know, learning how to see the baby who really struggled with something that I wanted, having to manage those really tough postpartum hormones – go right from there, and then learning as a parent, and not constantly evaluate my own child, you know, after having been in early intervention all the time, I remember being like, there is some structural tension going on here. And I need to, we need to do some stretches… and learning to ease from that mode of thinking to like, we’re gonna talk and sing and play, and I can do these things that I know are gonna help you track and move left to right, but it’s going to just be more fun for us.

Ayelet: Yeah, that trust.

Miranda: So getting to that joyful part of parenting, I think, took me – yes, yes, being able to, like let go of things. And like you said, trust, that I could do all these things for my baby, because of the relationship that we were building and how we were connecting.

Ayelet: Yeah, hard, hard to do.

Miranda: And then my second baby, we had a lot of stress. My dad, who has now since passed, was really sick. And we were heading into like the winter holidays. And just all the stress from that, I ended up delivering her early. And so it got to experience a NICU baby after having worked for many years with NICU babies. Here I am sitting in the hospital with one of my own and figuring out how to manage that amidst my own father going into the hospital, and ended up her first month of life was his last. And so just navigating parenting through grief, and how to be there for other people while you’re trying to become a mom of two, and all those challenges and worries that come with having a baby that was premature.

I mean, she was 36 weeks, but we still had struggles, breathing issues, you know, had to go see some specialists for her to and just… a lot to navigate again, you know, it feeling like oh, I have one baby and I know what I’m doing. And then to have a second and feel like Gosh, this is really tough again. And I think the hard part of baby number two was that with my first one, I reached out to some amazing local groups and formed some incredible friendships, that classes and parent and me groups. And then with my second, I was just like suffering from grief and postpartum depression. And then when I was ready to form those relationships and head back to work, we had a pandemic, and are still in a pandemic!

Ayelet: Oh gosh, to laugh about that!

Miranda: I know, I know.

Ayelet: Oh, Miranda oh my goodness, it’s I think what strikes me maybe… maybe most, about what you shared… number one, thank you for sharing all of that is… how much I think empathy plays a role in everything that you experienced and in your work with other families and personal relationships with other families in your community. I think so often we come into parenthood and when we do experience certain things going as expected it can be easy to assume, perhaps, that it goes like that for everyone. But when you do have the experience of things not going quite like you thought they would, things looking a little different – or even witnessing that in a good friend or a close family member, it can help us to develop empathy, right? On a personal level, not just when you’re working with families. I mean, it’s such a different experience when it is you and your personal life versus your professional life or your professional knowledge.

I would love to hear just a little bit about how that informs your practice day to day with Early Intervention Mama, with the Learn With Less® “caregiver & me” style classes that you lead, and in all dimensions of how that… because you’ve actually shifted your own personal life and your professional life, very similar to the work that we both are doing, to meld into your passions and into something that is really becoming something that you can deliver both out of personal need and desire, and also to make a professional and social impact on your community. So I would love to hear just a little bit about the role of empathy in all of that for you, and how your experiences have informed that piece.

Miranda: Yeah, so think in terms of leading into my own parenting journey, having had a lot of infant mental health training and support, like in my profession to have reflective supervision, and what that is, is really having somebody help you identify how what’s going on with a family is impacted by what you are experiencing, or what experiences you have had may impact how you work together with a family. So for example, I think developing empathy for these NICU families that I had worked with before experiencing that myself… My sister, like my second year at the school district, I was in ended up with a NICU baby, herself. And I just remember experiencing that, and trying to be a support for her, drawing on what I learned from families and then bringing that back around.

It just is so interesting to me, thinking from a personal and professional perspective, that all of that is intertwined. And I think the concept of infant mental health really respects that of having boundaries, but also allowing yourself to reflect on how families experiences impact yours, and your experiences impact families, and just noticing the importance of that. And so I think that informed me when I was parenting like, oh my gosh, I’m experiencing this NICU journey. And I carry the stories from all these parents that I’ve worked with that are informing me because I am, here, this mom sitting here with this tiny baby hooked up to tubes, having the voices of all these parents that I’ve carried with me kind of talking to me in my head as I’m here, and then being able to share that out with other families and again, just that cyclical, like you know, you get it and you give it you get it and you give it into me that you don’t have to receive empathy to have, to be able to give it, but it definitely helps to just kind of… that give and take and exchange of empathy.

Ayelet: I love that. Another thing that I would love to explore with you is I mean you… So you came out of having this second child who… it was a very intense time, and at what point did you decide to join the Learn With Less® program? How old was she at that point?

Miranda: She was over a year. So I saw… Ayelet, I have followed you since it was Strength In Words on your Instagram and Facebook with words those pieces transitioned to Learn With Less®.

Ayelet: The rebrand?

Miranda: Yes, yes. And I remember looking at a video of you, I think, singing to one of your babies and then talking about how, what you’re doing is building eye contact, and all this just through song. And I was like, yes, yes! This is my person, like, oh my gosh, like follow all her stuff, explore all the things. And so like instant fan, I think from one little video clip that I was like, this is it. This is it. She’s there. She’s got it. This is who I want to follow. And then, seeing you roll out the program. I think you rolled out in 2020. Right?

Ayelet: Yeah. Early 2020.

Miranda: Yes. So when that came out, I just was not ready. You know, like I said, I was, I had just been through so much, personally. But it was in the back of my head, just like those other things I had saved. I was like, Okay, I really want to be there for like, the inaugural class or, you know, facilitators, but this is not this is not the right time for me, put it in my pocket, and then things got busy, and then come almost a year later things were picking up with Early Intervention Mama, and I was like, Okay, I’m ready to start thinking about doing more. And I was still working, doing all these virtual visits and feeling really burnt out doing that, and overwhelmed, and looking for more. And so that’s when I said, my husband and I had some financial discussions. And I was like, Can we do this because I want to do this. This is how much it costs. This is what we need to do. Like I am ready. Can we do that? Like, not asking permission but just like, are we like, let’s get our let’s talk together, you know, cuz it’s a, it is a journey, right? Like, I followed you, I trusted you. I had I think I even reached out to to have that to have your licensed facilitators.

Ayelet: Yeah, I was so glad you did that. I mean, you were so informed with your decision which is great, because you know, we don’t take that lightly. Like, yeah, you are joining something, you’re joining into a community – that is a big decision. You know, and you you want to know everything about what that looks like, and how that then, like you said, like I had, you know, quote unquote, earned your trust in many ways, but this is a different level. And it’s a different kind of investment. And it’s a different kind of investment of your time and energy, and a vision that you have for yourself in a very different way. So yeah, okay, so that’s great. So you talked to your husband, you chatted about what would work, how it could work. And you reached out to other licensed facilitators of the Learn With Less® program.

Miranda: Yes, and then we had lots of conversation back and forth in our DMs on Instagram. And then finally, I was like, Okay, I want to do this, like, we will see where this goes. And so alongside, starting with the Learn With Less®, I beefed up my Early Intervention Mama, and you know, I’ve just kind of been working these two things alongside themselves, and gave myself permission to do the course at my own pace, and on my own timeline. And then this past summer, my daughter ended up sick in the hospital and got a Type 1 diabetes diagnosis. And I just, it was just too much to continue working full time. And I was so thankful to be in a position where I can say, you know, what, I’m going to have to step away from that at this time, I can’t do it. But there are some things that I can do, that I’ve been working on, and use that opportunity to finish up my Learn With Less® curriculum and started pushing forward on that.

And just being able to be a part of the community with Learn With Less® has filled my soul and my heart in ways that I wasn’t expecting. You know, just being able to be a part of a community that doesn’t have this hierarchical structure, which is very different, I think, than my experiences previously. Right? Like, I have a bachelor’s, I’m not a master’s trained therapist. And so being able to be… I’ve always collaborated with physical therapists, occupational therapists, speech therapists, all the therapists! As the parents primary coach bringing in this team of support, but there has been this hierarchical structure of, you know, us versus them. And I don’t feel that within this community, and it’s just a beautiful thing to have so many people supporting each other and cheering each other on and building each other up and learning from each other, that I’m thankful. I’m thankful for the experience.

And I think, too, it just is reflective of all the ways that we work with families, right? Like, not coming into a playgroup, or a parenting class or a Learn With Less® class and saying, I’m the instructor, here’s what we’re going to do. I know all the things, you have nothing to share, you know… We are coming at it from a let’s learn together. And we have so much, we each bring so much value to this experience. And we can all learn from one another. So carried on, I think, from the course down through facilitators to the classes and work we’re doing, it just, I love that aspect of it.

Ayelet: I’m so glad, obviously, very intentional. But it’s really nice to hear from you and others who have experienced it, that that is a pleasurable experience, you know, and that it’s working, right? Because it is it’s a parallel process. We… how can you go out and create the kind of impact that you want if it hasn’t ever been modeled to you, or if you don’t have that yourself, right? It’s so important. We’re creating community with families, we’re building trust with families, we’re building a place to be playful, to ingest information and to work together. And so how can we ensure that we’re all doing that? Well, by creating it for ourselves? Why don’t you Why don’t you continue on your discussion of the journey? I’d love to hear more.

Miranda: Ok! So, let’s see, gosh, it’s been kind of a whirlwind. I think since I did my first demo class. I did a demo class and did it virtually. And from there, spent a lot of time kind of hemming and hawing over getting a website up and running. And like, also, while doing my, like, I love Instagram, I’m an Instagrammer. So like, trying to balance use of social media with trying to build a business. And I myself, have always thought of myself as an entrepreneur, but that business side of it is where I am least comfortable, right? Like I feel comfortable serving families, feel comfortable leading groups, I feel comfortable singing, I do not feel comfortable with the business parts of it. And so relying heavily kind of on the course to help inform that… it has been so helpful. And then to take that and like put it into action and like assure myself that I can do it. Even though the business side doesn’t come naturally for me like that, I’m a lifelong learner. That’s what you do as an educator you learn and it has been tough for me right to figure that out.

But just to kind of have a plan, and I think we have had discussions about like, okay, what are the what is just that next step right, that next step to get things rolling and trying to make sure that, in my head, I remember things don’t have to be perfect, or I don’t have to worry as much about that as I do of like just getting things done. So for me, there was like a little bit of a stalling in that journey between the demo class and actually putting out paid classes, because I felt like I had to have all those things in order. And then I just decided one day, like, the website is a hang up for me, and I need to have some workarounds. And so that’s what I did. I started putting classes on Eventbrite and using my social media to kind of promote them. And still doing that!

So I hit launch on my website today. I did, you know, again, I had to tell myself, like, it doesn’t have to have all the things on it. I can build out, this is my base to build from, then just using the tools that I’ve learned to incorporate into there and make it easy for me to do right now. You know, I think that’s the thing that I figured out, like, what I had in my head and what I had envisioned, I need to be flexible and have workarounds, right, like, the messages that I got in my first year or first two years and motherhood, be flexible, have work arounds, it’s not going to be perfect. It’s not going to necessarily be how you envisioned… same thing with the business baby.

Ayelet: Absolutely, yeah, it’s true. Well, I would love to hear a little bit more too about, what were some of the pieces that were helpful for you to build your own confidence in those aspects that you felt a bit of, say, imposter syndrome, or just like I… This makes me feel very nervous. This is too much, as far as like the business building. Yeah, like, what did that look like for you?

Miranda: So I think for me, it meant at each step of the game, kind of like going back and looking at some of the resources that you had, and going from there to look at other resources, looking at my state, like we have a small business division in the state, and looking at what resources and opportunities they have there. Talking with other people that I know that are running their small businesses, like I have a good friend who’s done a couple things. And I’m like, Okay, well, how hard was it to get an LLC here in Michigan, or tell me about like, how things looked tax wise, I think like having the information and then also seeking out some of that personal experience felt more comfortable for me to hear it, and then to see to like that some of the things that maybe I had fears about, like, oh, my gosh, I’m gonna do this improperly and Oh, am I gonna get in legal trouble or any of that, you know, like, I just had fears about that.

And realizing that, like, so much of the small business journey, like if you put every single duck in a row, like, I might be dead before every single duck in a row, you know, and just, like, knowing I needed to have certain things in place, but like, it didn’t all have to be in place, and just realizing that so many other people have built their businesses in that way. And as long as I’m doing things, honestly, and doing my best to do that, that I could move forward with it.

Ayelet: Right. And you have all the resources at your disposal, you know exactly what you need to do.

Miranda: Yeah, and lots of lots of help and support.

Ayelet: Yeah, that’s great. Yeah, I’d love to know also, as far as the investment of time and energy that this has taken for you, because I mean, you went in knowing that you were going to put the time and energy in. Has it been more than you expected, less than expected, about right? What, what does that look like for you?

Miranda: I would say about right, you know, I am definitely like, aesthetics kind of person. So the things that take me longer are like the graphics for things or, you know, the how the website looks or trying to plan out all of that takes me longer than I would say the average person, just because that is where I struggle to not be a perfectionist. But in terms of actually like creating my event listings, and then learning how to reach out to people. I mean, it is not what, it is not unexpected, you know, the effort that I’ve put forth, is what I expected.

And I think too, I decided, I think the first time I just offered like one or two classes a week. And then the next time I rolled out a session of classes, I had like four or five and didn’t fill as many as I had, you know, didn’t fill most of them and like just learning like realizing that all of these things that I’m doing are kind of little beta tests, right? Like, how many classes do I put out? And how do I figure out what areas I should focus on? So I think it’s just a matter of kind of like trial and error in terms of how you put your classes out and learning by doing. I mean that makes sense to me is is to learn as I go and if I had a class that somebody didn’t show up to, I learned a lot from that too. And it definitely for sure from like the first class I hosted to where I’m at now, I have gained so many skills in terms of how to invite people to participate.

Ayelet: Mmm. What I love about what you’ve shared is, is how you have learned the that power of flexibility and how much that is going to shape your quote, unquote, success with all of this, right? Because so much of this is setting the intention and adapting to what’s in front of you, and what life is throwing at you. And it’s not about well, I want to do this, this and that. And that’s how it’s got to be by the end of the month or whatever, right? Because it may be, and it may be because you learned some things, and you iterated upon those things. And you shifted your perspective, or you shifted your tactics. And of course, that’s what we all do together to help you and support you to see what maybe you can’t see on your own or to give you more ideas about what you might do.

But what really stands out to me about everything that you’ve described Miranda is that flexibility and adaptation, and how intentional you have become about all of that, because that is… you’re playing the long game. That’s it, because it’s not just how many people can I get enrolled in this class today? It’s how can I show my community that I am here, that I’m here to stay, that I am a resource, I’m a trusted resource. That’s so powerful, and that is much more impactful than just offering a class here and there. Can you talk a little bit about… was that a perspective shift at all for you? Or is it just me seeing that in you?

Miranda: Yeah, I mean, definitely, and I so learning to be flexible in the things that, like I have the strong desire to go a certain way, right. I tend to think of myself as a pretty flexible person. But there are areas where, you know, it’s hard for me to be… and I think the other thing that I’ve thought about is, this has impacted my parenting too. Like, I remember listening to the module about how we use toys and what things we we need to have. And like thinking about the setups that we do for our kids, and I started reflecting back on like, even things that I had posted on Instagram, or my own personal, like, look at these setups that I have, like beautiful little baskets full of just the right toys, or just, you know, even homemade toys.

I mean, I’ve always loved homemade things, but like just this concept I have in my head of like, I have to have this beautifully set up environment, because the environment is another teacher and yada yada, yada, yada. Which, yes, I still believe that that impacts however, I just had, like this complete shift in myself that I have noticed drastically changed my parenting… to become more of an observer of my kids. And not just like, I’m going to observe how you interact with the things I’ve set up for you. But like when we go outside, and I can just watch how they’re interacting with the material and go oh my gosh, like, yes, they know they already know what to do. And I can just kind of be the person to come alongside them and engage together in what they’re already doing, versus that feeling like, well, I’ll set something up, and then observe how they do it. I’m letting them be the one to lead that way. And that has definitely shifted my parenting.

I mean, it’s using things that I’ve known, but just to see it in practice and feel it in my parenting, not having the stress of feeling like I need to go and rearrange their playroom every month with different toys, with giant toy rotation or that stress, I needed that stress taken away in the seasons I’ve been in. So the flexibility to allow my children to explore how they needed to explore and join them is something that I want to share with parents because I’ve gotten to experience it.

Ayelet: That’s beautiful. I love that. What other perception changes or shifts have you made or have impacted you through participation of this program, either in your own personal parenting journey or in other aspects of your professional journey?

Miranda: Gosh, there’s been so many! I think one of the big perspective changes is not being held back by fear, fear of not doing things right. Like it being okay to put myself out there. One of my things that I’ve done lately is, I’m going to invite somebody that I know from the community to come for a free class, but being willing to you know, ask that they just share it with a friend or that they let me know, give me their honest feedback. Where before it was like oh gosh. How could I reach out to anybody? Like, I just need to sit here and not reach out to anybody and just put the stuff out there? So getting out of that comfort zone, right? Like, no, like, I am running a business, I am supporting my family. And I believe in this so much that I want to share it. And I believe in supporting my small business community locally. And I want to share my business so that they can do the same.

I think just reminding myself that it’s okay to do things that feel a little bit scary. And it’s okay to have people say no, not very many people have said no! I don’t even know if I’ve had, I’ve only had people say like, oh my god, I can’t, you know, like, I’m so busy right now. I haven’t had anybody say no! So I think just taking away that fear factor of you have things to offer. And, you know, that brings me back to like this hierarchy feeling like, I think for myself, like my professional journey, that sense of… I don’t have this advanced degree. I am a first generation college student. And so I’ve also watched my parents struggle, not having had college degrees and raising three kids, and just the financial pull of debt, and so that for me, played into my journey of like, I can’t afford to go back to get a masters, because I didn’t feel like I could go into debt because of my experiences into like further debt and have more student loan debt while still carrying some. And so, just that sense of like, I can’t, I didn’t feel like at the time that I could go back and do that, I think has been like a ghost on my shoulder that has just been taken away if I’m being honest. I’m so happy with where I’m at now in that like, I’m necessarily yearning for that, like I’m right where I need to be I love running this small business and doing what I’m doing now.

Ayelet: Yeah, I’m actually really curious just to hear from your own perspective, because I mean, we can talk a little bit more about like you made a big decision to invest in this program. That’s such an interesting perspective that I’m sure you’re not alone in, as far as like, people who are considering this kind of investment. And it is! It is a major investment, but what to you, because it is an investment in your career, and it is an investment in your professional journey and your own business. It’s an investment in your own business. So to you, what was the difference that made you feel that it was acceptable to yourself to make an investment in a program like this?

Miranda: So, for me, it’s the idea that this led to continuing entrepreneurialship. Continuing to be an entrepreneur, investing in my own small business, which meant I could rely on myself to create it, you know, within a community, right? I lean on my community, but I myself am responsible for putting the information out there, putting the messaging out there, how much effort I do want to put in or take back, and I’m not waiting for a raise from someone else. I’m not asking for a next pay step and being turned down because I don’t have a master’s degree. That is the difference. You know, I was in my head, I’m like, I could go back. And I’m sure I will, I am, you know, eventually going to go back to school.

But at this point, when I was going through the whole journey of my 13 years in early intervention, I just couldn’t rely that that degree was going to bring me to a more financially stable place. And it feels more important to rely on myself to make that. And I think being in a pandemic kind of push that to like everybody is shifting. And you can either choose to stay doing things, how you’ve done, or shift with everything that is going on. And I think I have just… it feels almost like a real awakening for me of, even just experiencing how I’m learning the tools I’m using, how other people are learning and I can just see in my head, how people learn and how people parent, how people engage and interact with each other… is shifting. It is entirely different than it was before the pandemic and I want to be a part of that. And I want to help families embrace that, like how do we stay connected when things are tough? How do we parent in a way that is more exposed than generations past? But also sometimes hidden behind like that social media screen? So I just think all of those things have impacted me wanting to do this because, again, it relies on myself but just having that awakening of feeling like I’m seeing how things are changing and wanting to be a part of it.

Ayelet: That’s huge. Yeah. What do you feel like the impact of this program is currently having on your life? How would you say that in words and what you anticipate it to continue to have on your own life?

Miranda: So it given me the, the program has given me the confidence to utilize the skills I already had, and put them out there as an offer to my community of, I know how to do these things, and I want to share it with you and want to support you, because I’ve been there. So feeling confident enough to take my experiences, my education, and what I’ve done, and put that out to a wider lens of people. I think that’s a huge part of the program, too, right? Like I spent those years working for organizations where we had to have this strict requirement on who qualified or who didn’t. And this program, now I can serve whoever needs it, whoever is ready to come. And I can find ways to serve people who can’t even necessarily afford the class or people that like I can make that, I’ve learned ways to do that. And so this is a completely accessible program.

And I think that’s been a perspective shift for me of like, I have things that I can offer to many more people and I can reach more people and build a community for those who haven’t been able to reach it before. Because I think there are! There are a lot of parents out there, there’s a lot of caregivers who are in need of a community and can’t get the service, can’t get the support, or don’t know where to go! Because even some of the, some of the organizations that do offer wonderful things aren’t participating in this shift, as well. You know, they’re not participating in the shift of, how do we access families? How do we support families? How do we meet them where they’re at? And I want to be a person that can meet families where they’re at! Literally and figuratively.

Ayelet: Right. Exactly. And with what they already have?

Miranda: Yes, yes. Help them feel supported, you know, being a mirror to reflect what they’re already doing well, versus, you know, somebody to tell them what to do.

Ayelet: Miranda, do you have anything to share with anybody who is potentially where you were, who’s considering, who’s thinking about it, especially if they’re, like, you know, on the fence about the investment about the experience, about whether or not this could work in their community or for themselves? What would you make sure to share with somebody who’s considering it.

Miranda: I would encourage them to reach out to any facilitators, because that’s how, I mean…

Ayelet: Like Miranda.

Miranda: Yes, like me. But reach out and ask those questions that you might have or wondering about how the experience was. And I think too, like, just know that this is a program, it’s a curriculum, but I think more than that, it’s a community. That is something that you aren’t going to regret. I mean, knowing you know, I just get joy out of seeing other facilitators post their classes or like, posts their wins, and just feeling that together, as part of a team, all the while we’re dispersed all over! You can feel it like it does, it feels like we are all in this together in terms of serving and providing this message, this much needed message for parents of little ones, that they are enough. And so to be in community with other people who share those same values and who you’re able to bounce things off of is invaluable. You know, so I think that’s really what I would sell to anybody that is questioning, I would tell them come for the curriculum and the program and stay for the community.

Ayelet: It’s definitely my favorite place to be on the internet. Miranda, thank you so much for sharing everything that you have today. I can’t wait to share this message with everybody. And where can people find you?

Miranda: They can find me at my newly posted website, earlyinterventionmama.com! I’m on Instagram Early Intervention Mama and Facebook, and Eventbrite if you’re local to Lansing, Michigan!

Ayelet Marinovich 

Thank you so much.

Miranda 

Thank you!

The post Supporting Parents With an Early Childhood Educator’s Knowledge, with Miranda Zoumbaris appeared first on Learn With Less.

On this episode of the Learn With Less® podcast, Ayelet sits down with pediatric occupational therapist, mother, parent educator, Learn With Less® facilitator, and founder of Santosha Wellness, Rebecca Hernandez. Rebecca lives in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and has her own private pediatric occupational therapy clinic where she serves new families in multiple ways via developmental therapies, infant massage, and now, caregiver & me classes using the Learn With Less® curriculum, leading infant and toddler enrichment classes to provide resources and support to parents and caregivers.

Rebecca’s practice is focused on sharing her love and passion for the needs and development of children through empowerment, advocacy, education, collaboration, and support. She believes that in order to help children, we must first take time to understand each child’s rich life background: developmental history, caregiver support structure, the cultural lens through which the child identifies, socioeconomic needs, and  the child’s strengths and interests. These values on top of her robust skillset as not only an occupational therapist, but also a Feeding Therapist, infant development specialist, certified Infant Massage therapist, kids yoga teacher, and CrossFit trainer (for both kids and adults), make her an incredible asset to the Learn With Less® program as a facilitator of “caregiver & me” classes.

Not familiar with the term, “caregiver & me” classes? We use it as a more inclusive term instead of “mommy & me” classes. Our classes are open – and meant for – ALL parents and caregivers: not just moms… but also dads, non-binary folks, grandparents, foster parents, babysitters, and other amazing grownups who care for tiny humans. We’re going to play the “search term” game here (so you can find this great content more easily!) and help shift the conversation from “mommy & me” classes to “caregiver & me” classes… to do our part to shape the more inclusive world we’d like to live in.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Rebecca’s biggest skepticism in joining the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program, and what value it provided her even though she wasn’t new to parent education and providing family enrichment services
• Why conversations about self-identity as a facilitator are valuable in responsibly and responsively serving families who hold various identities
• What helped her pushed ahead even when life felt overwhelming
• Why her plans include holding both virtual and in-person caregiver + child classes in her community
• The role of “facilitator” and how that affects one’s ability to lead a class for other families

Learn With Less® podcast episode: Why Become a Parent Educator? Ask These Learn With Less® Facilitators!

Learn With Less® podcast episode: Leading Caregiver & Baby Classes – From Therapist to Parent Educator, with Carly Dorfman

Learn With Less® podcast episode: Enrich Your Practice as a Parent Educator, with Sara Moreno

Learn With Less® podcast episode: Educating Parents to be Their Child’s First Teacher, with Rachel Kammeyer

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How to Impact Your Community With Parent Education and Parent Coaching Skills, with Laurel Smith

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How Lesley Took Her Existing Skills as an Educator, and Started Serving Infant/Toddler Families In a Holistic, Meaningful Way

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How to Use Your Skills as an Educator or Therapist to Serve Families Holistically as a Parent Educator, with Allie Glazer

Learn With Less® Bundle: get our favorite infant and toddler development resources (save 70%)! Discover how to support & connect with your tiny human, without having to buy a single toy.

Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program: Use your existing skills as an educator or therapist to serve families holistically with a high quality program that will provide lasting impact! Apply now to become a licensed facilitator Learn With Less®.

Learn With Less® “Caregiver & Me” Classes: the magic of Learn With Less® lies in the communal aspect of coming together with our resources, in community with other families. Join us for a virtual or in-person class led by a licensed facilitator near you!

Rebecca: Website / Instagram / Facebook

Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest

Ayelet: Before we get started today, I want to just let you know that we will be speaking a lot today about the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program. If you are an educator or therapist interested in becoming a licensed Learn With Less® Facilitator and integrating “caregiver & me” classes into your offerings or practice, you are invited to apply now at learnwithless.com/certification. If you’re actually listening to this on or around the day this episode airs on in late November, 2021, I recommend you get your application in today, as we’ll be leading a live Goal Setting and 2022 Planning Workshop event on Friday the December 3rd, for our entire Learn With Less® facilitator community! Just head over to learnwithless.com/certification and submit your application today.

If you are a parent or caregiver interested in learning more about resources to help you feel confident you can support and connect with your tiny humans, we would love you to start by downloading my free infant/toddler development blueprint, over at learnwithless.com/blueprint, today!

Today, I’ve got Rebecca Hernandez with me. At the time of this recording about a month ago, Rebecca had just completed the Learn With Less® training program and was about to host her demo class, which is a right of passage within our facilitator certification program, and the last step toward certification. She’s now moved into our certified pool of facilitators, and is developing her plans to serve families using Learn With Less® in the new year, with both virtual and in-person “caregiver & child” classes in and around her community of Kalamazoo, Michigan.

Rebecca had a heck of a year – the pandemic was tough on her business, she gave birth to a second child, and just had hurdle after hurdle thrown at her… but what I love about her story is that it’s one of resilience. Rebecca is committed to serving her community. She’s not a beginner to, as she puts it, being a “therapreneur” (just to be perfectly clear, that’s a therapist who’s also become an entrepreneur or small business owner). But she’d invested in the Learn With Less® program when all of that went down. Now, “life” nearly took over and ravaged that dream of leading family enrichment classes using the Learn With Less® curriculum. But Rebecca charged on, at her pace. Sometimes she completed a few minutes of the training, sometimes weeks would go by before she was able to get childcare and commit the brainpower to sitting and moving toward her dream. But she did it. And I can’t wait to share the power of what she’s gotten back from that, in her own words, with you here, today. Let’s get to it!

Hi, it’s very nice to see you!

Rebecca: Nice to see you, too. What a, what a time it’s been since that last zoom call. I think the last zoom call I was on was in my office like pre was at pandemic but like early on.

Ayelet: Yeah. Yeah. I’m so glad you are here, like, in the program, where you are and ready to… ready to demo and move forward.

Rebecca: So excited. And I have it’s it’s kind of perfect timing in a sense for the demo class because all of kind of my mom group of friends and just group of friends in general, we all just had babies this past spring and summer, and so it’s going to be so nice. My sister in law is going to come my backyard and everyone’s craving that community. And I was like, I can create that. And this is so

Ayelet: That’s it! How old is your daughter now?

Rebecca: Five months.

Ayelet: Oh my gosh.

Rebecca: And so I think she’s teething. And she’s just feisty. She was born on the full moon and just the opposite of my son who was just very mellow in general. And I’ve also forgotten that baby is, you know, your brain protects you and for you to have more children. And so like she only put her to bed at eight last night. And then at 11 she woke up. And I was just like, having to bouncer in the carrier holding her like standing until two. It’s all temporary, but I’m in it. In the thick of it!

Ayelet: In the thick of it. I mean, I think for me, the best part of having the second child was just being like, Okay, remember, this is just a season of my life. Remember, this doesn’t last for 18 years. Remember, things will shift everything shifts, and just knowing because it might not look the same as it did with the first one because they’re totally different humans, but that first time around and you’re like, Oh my god. This is my life. Right? It’s okay.

Rebecca: I have that, it is so true. And I have thought that so many times, at least like this time, I know, like, Oh, this is just temporary. And all of a sudden I’ll realize, Oh, she’s sleeping. And it also goes by so fast. And now that I have that like actual experience of it going by so fast. Like I can be tired. And no, this is not gonna be my always. Oh my gosh, totally. Yeah. So I’m just looking at myself in the video like, Oh, man…

Ayelet: You look great, amazing. Well, let’s just chat a little bit you had written that first of all, you said, What was your biggest skepticism upon joining like that it might not be necessary that you’ve taught, you know, classes like these in the past, that you have the skills and you weren’t sure if you need to add training to that professional area. But you’ve learned a lot and the cohesiveness of this program and then the support. I’d love to hear to just in your own words, like when you were first drawn to the program, like what did you see specifically that led you to think that still would be useful?

Rebecca: Yeah. It’s interesting, because there’s like a large part of me, and I don’t know if this is just like an entrepreneurial therapist thing in general. But I tend to like go a little crazy with courses. And I’m like, yes, yes, yes. Right. Yes. Certification. Sure. This one, this one…

Ayelet: Right. This is part of what we talked about in the like, imposter syndrome area, right?

Rebecca: Exactly. Yes. And so then I’ve tried to read more recently be a little bit more selective, and, Okay, do I really need this? And so that’s where I was sort of at with like, okay, is this you know, is this another class, but I was really drawn to, like, the philosophy of it, of the Learn With Less®, like, you’ve really don’t need anything. And that’s just something that I’ve said so often had so many conversations with. So that was a huge.

And then just listening to your podcast, seeing your marketing, like and your, your website all looked so great. And so I felt like I could also just tell like, there’s more to this than just like someone who just randomly decided, like, I could teach a class, you know, not to say like, other courses I’ve done haven’t been beneficial, but like, there just seemed to be a depth to it. And I was like, I think I could get a lot out of this. And then after our conversation was like, Yes, this is totally what I need to just kind of deepen. So the philosophy is what sort of drew me in to think, oh, this could be something that may be beneficial, even though I’ve already done some of these classes. And it just you could just tell it was… you really had it really organized and I was like, I’m gonna get the support. There’ll be curriculum support and for me, like all of that stuff. And I was like, that’s the stuff I need to learn and get more of. So…

Ayelet: What at the time I’m curious also, like, what were some of the areas that you still felt were a challenge for you, particularly, when you were looking at joining Learn With Less®? What were those pieces that you still felt like, Oh, I could use some support specifically in these like around this or that?

Rebecca: Yeah. I mean, I think the business side of it, I think like the vision of my classes, like I had this idea, like yes, I see There’s benefit in bringing families together. But I felt myself sort of like not feeling organized and really knowing how to make it a program. So like, you know, I could lead a class and have content but was I really having something that was cohesive, that flowed week to week or what I really know what… because excitement is one thing, and I’m good at that. Yeah, but translating it into, you know, an actual class. And that’s something that has really solid content so that I can then can market it.

I think that’s where I was felt like I was really lacking, it was like, I don’t really know what I should put into this class. Because I had, I would sometimes I remember thinking, like, I had a little whiteboard that I’d write out like kind of what we’re doing in class, almost like 10 things like I am, this is too much! And then I felt stressed that people were talking, and I really wanna get my thing… But I feel like families really need to, they want all of the stuff… I know that really what they want us community. So, I think I was looking for something that would give me this ongoing support, vision, and you have done the work to create this program that is like, Yes, this is what I want. And it’s already here. So why try and reinvent the wheel.

Ayelet: Good! That’s awesome – good to hear! You had said, as far as the overall content of the program, you said you love the content overall, it was especially focused on the business side of things, and you learned a lot even after having run classes through your business for you know, going on for years. But for instance, with module four, and we talked through the culturally responsive delivery of services…

Rebecca: I loved that. Yeah, it’s so nice sometimes to be in your like little bubble of like, this is all important to everybody. Right? Then outside, you pop that bubble, which is also important to do. And then you realize, oh, my God… I’ve had so many conversations, one of my really good friends is a social worker with our Early On team in the county. And she’s like, I have tried to have so many conversations around diversity, inclusion and equity in talking about how we are a group of all privileged white women (in that particular group) and what does that mean for the families that we’re serving? And let’s have conversations, and people are like, “Oh, no, it’s not important. We’re, it’s fine.” And she’s like, we can’t even talk about it? I mean, come on!

Well, and I will say, it’s one of the most profoundly, it’s just an amazing part of the program that you give, and it makes it so much different than others. That’s what starts to create this access to families is having these hard conversations, when we’re training, in the people that are going to are going to be mobilizing these, you know, these types of groups. And I just loved that that was so… I mean, that was woven into, somehow, every single conversation in the training, and I thought that was just so amazing. So it made me think, and I felt like it kept it at the forefront of, this is why we’re doing this. This is this is a huge part of why this program exists. And yes, we’re supporting kids and families. And this is a huge need. And I so I thought that was… and it’s a hard thing to do. So I love that.

Ayelet: Yeah. Awesome. I’m happy to hear that. All right, you had said that this is a very well organized, well thought out deep and supportive program. Not that I had a poor reception by any means beforehand, but it’s certainly more evident, now. I mean, you’ve been expanding on that the whole conversation, but I’d love to hear more about… it sounds like it was, in the beginning you were hoping for that. And then the end it was delivered.

Rebecca: Yeah, I mean, even like, just those those little things that aren’t little things, but like, you know my name, and you know, my story and like you, you support so many people going through this program. And then the way that you facilitate conversations on the Facebook group, and then it was like learning those little things of oh, wait, there’s like calls every month like, especially once I start running these like that will be so helpful. And knowing like there’s a group once you’re a facilitator that like, that’s just, I’ve never had that in a, in a program that I’ve done in training, and it’s sort of like you’ve finished and it’s like, “click, done, here’s your certificate,” and you’re, and you’re done.

But to have that, and I mean, because then you’re like, I love reading through the comments and all of the like the prompts, like I learned so much. And to just have that always, that’s where I felt like, oh, wow, this is even so much more than I thought that it would be. I don’t even know I would want something like that. And now I’m like, Oh, I totally want something like that. Honestly, with everything that was thrown my way this past year, constantly, I would not have… I would have just called my losses and been like, this was meant to be, another time.

It was solely because you outreached, you made me feel like it’s okay that it has taken some time. Like what can we do? Let’s try this. You’d notice when I was… you engaged in conversation right away, like that’s the stuff that kept me going. And now I’m at a place where I can, I’m excited and energized and have capacity to start running them. It would have been years if I had ever even finished for no other reason than I just felt like I couldn’t. So that’s great. It’s been a year.

Ayelet: It’s, it’s been a year, man. Absolutely. Is there anything else that has you know, come up for you in general or just anything else that you can share, would like to share, how you feeling?

Rebecca: Nothing that I can think… I’m feeling really good about the class, that’s my favorite spot to be is sitting in a circle with other caregivers in their, in their little ones and some excited to be doing that I have too many ideas. And so that’s why I’m like, I’m going to take some dedicated time finished going through bonus content and actually, like, map out my class, match it to Learn With Less®, that’ll be really helpful. And I’m so excited. There’ll be little babies, which is kind of a nice place to start. Because they’re not mobile, totally. And anyway, it’s all my close friends and my sister in law. So yes, I don’t really have any questions about that.

Ayelet: And you’re doing it in your backyard.

Rebecca: I was gonna do it virtually. And I was like, you know what, I know enough people in my community, and we can, it’s fall. So it’s kind of perfect out right now. Because unless it’s rainy, but then I have a really nice just big garage that’s, we could go in the garage. Like if we can be in person – I would love that. And I’m proud of myself, I almost was like, I just can’t, like no, you want to do it, just do it! Don’t feel like, you know, it has to be perfect or whatever, so…

Ayelet: Yeah, get it done, move to the next level. And then you can….

Rebecca: And I want to be doing virtual classes, I have so many ideas and so many people that want to do it. And so I was like, once I’m done, then I hit the ground running and go from there.

Ayelet: Yes. That’s amazing. I’m so happy for you. Well, and you have, obviously, a big community of people who you have been serving for years. So now that you’re…

Rebecca: I’m back! And I have, I’m ready to go when… I think I’ve decided for myself was, I’m gonna do virtual and then, once the pandemic is in a space where it’s over or like, it’s, you know, it’s safe to be indoors, unmasked. And that’s like the smart science thing to do, I have four or five people who are like, yes, please use my space. So I’ve got all this stuff on deck. And I have a whole map of, this is what my business will kind of look like right now. So I’m super excited that I have that and then I can do that when it’s ready. I was gonna start trying to do stuff now. I was like I feeling overwhelmed by it.

And then I feel like should I really be in spaces with little babies and right, they can’t wear a mask? And then like is yeah, the virtual is so nice. Go figure, it’s not in person, you don’t know each other. So you think this is gonna be like, how are we ever going to connect? But I did a virtual prenatal yoga class and it was my best friend’s a teacher. And so some of the people I didn’t know because their local but then she started pulling people from all over the US doing it, man. It was just as connecting as it would be in person and I never would have guessed. Yeah, that. Yeah. So I’m excited to take little snippets of like, what made me feel connected in that and bring it to… It’s totally possible! I’ve found, too, like sometimes parents worry, they’re like, “I’m so sorry, my baby was asleep.” One, you should never be sorry that your baby’s asleep. Thank goodness. Yeah. But they get worried…

Ayelet: And you might even write that in an email before the class to be like, listen, even if you’re if your child is sleeping, or if you have a diaper change, there’s still ways to engage. It’s totally fine.

Rebecca: Yeah, I mean, the thing I’m, I think I’m not nervous to teach because I’ve done it enough. But like, I’m honestly a little bit more nervous, because it’s all people I know. And so I feel silly, almost. And I know, I’m being recorded. And so that will be a thing to like, get over. And remember, they’re still parents! It’s just like any other parent, but you know, sometimes you almost feel like – it’s like when you’re in a class and you have to pretend-do whatever.

Ayelet:  Well, I think to that point, it does help that your role is not teacher it’s, just the group, it’s the group that you’re – just, you just happen to be leading the group. You happen to be the one who has access to the paper that says what you’re doing and you’re doing it in a trained way.

Rebecca: Yeah, that’s so true.

Ayelet: You’re not in charge of them. You’re not telling them how to parent, you’re just sharing information that you’re gonna be doing alongside them because your baby will be there too!

Rebecca: Yeah, it is, it’s like sometimes you feel this like pressure of like, I need to give like the most valuable mind blowing content every time I… you know, you put this pressure on yourself. Really like what’s valuable is just all being together, take a breath, actually look at your baby, pause for a minute. And, here are some tidbits. Oh, that’s it. I needed that reminder that like, just a facilitator. Yeah, you just happened to be happening.

Ayelet: Well, I can’t wait. I’m so excited.

Rebecca: And thank you. I mean, I know I’ve said this before, but I really am so grateful that you just were so encouraging, very grateful. Because this is a phenomenal program. So…

Ayelet: Thanks, Rebecca. Thanks for being part of it!

The post One Therapreneur’s Journey to Becoming a Parent Educator, with Rebecca Hernandez appeared first on Learn With Less.

In today’s episode of the Learn With Less® podcast, we’re doing something a little bit different. We’re actually going to share with you the replay of a private event we held recently for accepted applicants of the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training and Certification Program, wherein we brought in a few of our current clients who are licensed, Learn With Less® facilitators, and had them answer your questions.

We covered:

• Why they initially joined the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program
• What benefits they found to utilizing an existing framework that would show them how to lead high quality caregiver & me* classes instead of creating their own (*we use this inclusive term as a substitution for “mommy & me” classes as we serve and welcome parents, caregivers, non-binary folks, foster parents, grandparents, babysitters, etc.)
• Big shifts each of them have made in their lives and businesses as a result of joining the Learn With Less® parent educator program and becoming Learn With Less® facilitators
• How some of them have found confidence to become parent educators, even if they aren’t parents themselves
• Some of the unexpected or unanticipated wins they’ve made as a result of joining the Learn With Less® program
• How much time it took each of them to complete the training program, and how much time they dedicate continuously to leading Learn With Less® classes

Whether or not you have applied yet for the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program, I know that you will learn so much about not only our program, but about the incredible and generous and supportive individuals that are part of it. In this episode, we feature several amazing professionals, they all actually happen to be speech language pathologists, however, we do have many different types of professionals who are involved in our program, including SLPs, we have occupational therapists and physical therapists, early childhood educators and social workers, para educators and instructional assistants, and other people who are pursuing different kinds of endeavors in the educational or therapy world.

So go ahead, if you are interested in learning more about our program, you can head over to our website at learnwithless.com/certification – We’d love to share more with you! You can apply today, and when you do, we will be gifting you a private training that is all about how you can create lasting impact in your community with a high quality and evidence based plug-and-play program that will have families coming back again and again. So, cannot wait to hear from you. And I really look forward to sharing this episode with you. Okay, here you go!

Learn With Less® podcast episode: Leading Caregiver & Baby Classes – From Therapist to Parent Educator, with Carly Dorfman

Learn With Less® podcast episode: Enrich Your Practice as a Parent Educator, with Sara Moreno

Learn With Less® podcast episode: Educating Parents to be Their Child’s First Teacher, with Rachel Kammeyer

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How to Impact Your Community With Parent Education and Parent Coaching Skills, with Laurel Smith

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How Lesley Took Her Existing Skills as an Educator, and Started Serving Infant/Toddler Families In a Holistic, Meaningful Way

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How to Use Your Skills as an Educator or Therapist to Serve Families Holistically as a Parent Educator, with Allie Glazer

Learn With Less® Bundle: get our favorite infant and toddler development resources (save 70%)! Discover how to support & connect with your tiny human, without having to buy a single toy.

Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program: Use your existing skills as an educator or therapist to serve families holistically with a high quality program that will provide lasting impact! Apply now to become a licensed facilitator Learn With Less®.

Learn With Less® “Caregiver & Me” Classes: the magic of Learn With Less® lies in the communal aspect of coming together with our resources, in community with other families. Join us for a virtual or in-person class led by a licensed facilitator near you!

Allie: Website / Instagram / Facebook

Ronesha: Website / Instagram / Facebook

Melanie: Website

Carly: Website / Instagram / Facebook 

Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest

Ayelet: Welcome, everyone. I want to go ahead and introduce to you well, I’ll actually have you all introduce yourselves. I don’t need to do it for you. So I’m Ayelet, I am the founder of Learn With Less®, and I am the creator of this program. We’re so happy that you all are joining us today we have Ronesha, we have Allie, we have Carly, we may have one or two more who knows can pop in today. But, looking forward to chatting with you all and anybody else who joins us live. I’ll just go in the order of my screen. So Ronesha, you’re right next to me. Would you like to go ahead and just let us know you know who you are, where you’re located your professional or educational background what you do, and your pronouns!

Ronesha: Sure. I am Ronesha Roberson, she and her, and I am located in Tampa, Florida. I am a speech language pathologist, and a licensed Learn With Less® facilitator.

Ayelet: Awesome, Carly, you want to go?

Carly: Sure. My name is Carly Dorfman. She/her, I am in Parkland Florida. I am also a speech language pathologist, Learn With Less® facilitator, and I am a mom to two little ones.

Ayelet: Awesome. All right, two Floridians. Awesome. Okay, Allie, go for it.

Allie: I am Allie Glazer, my pronouns are she/her/hers. I am also an SLP. I am in the Bay Area of California, I have my own private practice. I’m also an employee, a couple places and a licensed Learn With Less® facilitator. No kids of my own, just cats, you might seem running around behind it, though.

Ayelet: Yes, supervisors, perfect. So two, very funny that we’re all SLPs who are here. But we also obviously in the program have many occupational therapists, early childhood educators, we have social workers, we have physical therapists, so lots of different kinds of backgrounds from people who have a lot of, you know, it’s really nice to have that diversity in thought and diversity in background as well, because we can all pull from our own information and our own understanding of the world and of early childhood. So I would love to hear from each of you. What were those initial reasons why you join the Learn With Less® program? Does anyone have any specific things that they are ready to share? Should I pick you out?

Allie: I can go first, I think my I had like three trifold interests, I wanted to diversify my income a little bit and kind of add an addition to the direct therapy that I was doing for my employer. I wanted to get more into the enrichment world because I had so many families who I was working with in a therapy level, but who are also reaching out to me, like what should I be doing with my baby? What should I be doing with my toddler, what kind of things are just enrichment-based… and I had to, I was wanting to work hard to like take off the therapy hat and put on the professional hat.

And also I was just looking for a community to help kind of expand my own private practice in terms of how I was developing my social media presence, creating a website. Prior to Learn With Less®, I had like no social media presence whatsoever, and it’s still something I’m working on but I think those were the three big things, is just wanting something a little bit different out of my career that I wanted to kind of create and make for myself.

Ayelet: That’s awesome. And I will also say like creating that website and social media presence is always a work in progress. It’s one of those fun things that you get to just play with, if that’s the direction that you decide to go in. So yay. I see Melanie has joined us. Welcome, Melanie, when you are ready, we will be ready to for you to introduce yourself as well. Anybody else, Carly or Ronesha? Do either of you want to share a little bit about you know, those initial reasons about why you joined the program? Ronesha, I’d love to hear from you.

Ronesha: Okay, sure. So I think the first, like foremost reason why I was drawn to it was like, the name, Learn With Less®, at the time, I was a mom, I think he was like, one or two. And he was my second, and it was just like, am I even doing like all the things that I could be doing for my child, you know, for the two of my child’s mother, I was two years older than that. So I was like, in the throes of like, you know,

Ayelet: Oh yeah, early motherhood.

Ronesha: Exactly. So I was intrigued by that. And then I also knew that I wanted to eventually start my own private practice. And I also knew that I wanted to work with parents of young children. And so I was just like, if I was a parent of young children, I wanted to diversify my income, like Allie said, and also, I wanted to work with children, parents of young children, so it just kind of like, fit. And then as I was reading more about it, I was like, Oh, this is great, because parents need to, like, I feel like need that encouragement that they have everything that they need to succeed and to help their baby. So it really spoke to me that way.

Ayelet: Awesome. Melanie, welcome. Thank you for joining us on the go. It’s great. Do you want to go ahead and quickly introduce yourself? And then so we’re just sharing you know, where you are in the world, your professional or educational background, your pronouns?

Melanie: First of all, I’m Melanie, my pronouns are she/her, and right now in the world, in my car, and in the Bay Area in California, and I’m a speech language pathologist.

Ayelet: Too funny that that’s how we have we have like two on the West Coast and two on the east coast, the same state and area. And all SLPs today, but you know, again, we have lots of different kinds of people. This is just the the way the cookie crumbles today, and then Melanie, if you wouldn’t mind sharing to about, you know, what were some of the initial reasons for you why you joined the Learn With Less® program?

Melanie: I had a similar idea as you, Ayelet, and that’s why I was like, man, back before I even heard about this, I was thinking, man, is there a way I could do like a late talkers program that children who don’t necessarily have a diagnosis or they’re concerned, but we still could help a little bit and use everything around the house, and then your program came along! Actually, it was Allie who mentioned it, or put it on her Facebook, and then told me more about it, and then I hopped on board.

And it was just, it’s basically everything I was thinking about. And I love it, I you know, yeah, just passed the certification. And even though I had it run much beyond the demo class, it’s a lot of the skills and the mindset behind it and the modules have really shaped a lot of my behaviors and practices as a clinician right now.

Ayelet: That’s awesome. I want to talk more about that in a second, too. But I want to get Carly in to chat about her own initial reasons of why you, you joined also.

Carly: Yeah, so for me, it’s like a little bit of what everyone has already mentioned. Like Melanie mentioned, I sort of had this idea in my head, too, of caregiver education classes, but didn’t know how to organize my thoughts around presenting the information. I wanted to diversify my income, I knew I wanted to have my own private practice in the future, and the philosophy behind Learn With Less® in that you can use what you already have at home to support your child and their development. All of those reasons just led me to you and are why I joined the program.

Ayelet: That’s great. Well, I like what you said too, about how I mean, both you, Carly and Melanie, who both just said, like you you already had this idea. So I mean, but you decided not to do that idea yourself. But instead invest yourself your time, your energy, your financial investment into something that already existed. I mean, is it worth talking about the benefits of that?

Melanie: Oh, yeah, especially, I think, I guess we’re all a room of our we solopreneurs in here all of us. I think so.

Ayelet: Yeah. Everybody here currently.

Melanie: Yeah. So it’s just, you learn that you can’t do it all! And I am now learning that, as well. This being my. I would say like 2017, almost five years into a private practice, where now I have no choice but eventually become full time. But you just can’t. And so time is money and money is time. So I saw it as, Okay, rather than spending extra time I have to create a program have my own, why not explore some other option that is already established that already has the system going. And also has added benefits to it.

Like, I’m pretty self motivated as a person. But there are just some things that I need that push from, and what I’m grateful for the community is that that little extra push and that camaraderie of everyone going through the same process, or same process different stages, it’s just, it’s been really wonderful to have that community to lie back on and also grab ideas – and be motivated to, like, go beyond a certain hump.

Because at one point as solopreneurs, like, we’re just tired, we get burned out, we have only so much energy to give and that just seeing little posts of Allie you having your little post in the local newspaper, and then Lindsay getting her site set up. And then I believe it’s another, I think Miranda, another person, who just did a whole bunch of establishing for her business while dealing with personal things. So just little moments like that have really been helpful.

Ayelet: Mm hmm. Yeah, hearing from others and being able to cheer each other on, for sure. I mean, that’s like a nice added sort of unanticipated additional piece, right. And then let’s just talk through like some of you, like you, Melanie said that you have been a lot of private practice work for the last five years, but you also work a job in the schools, correct? And then Carly has recently left her full time job and started her own private practice where she sees private speech therapy clients, as well, as leads Learn WIth Less® classes. Allie, you’ve been doing, as you said, private practice for a few years now. And you were primarily word of mouth, I think you still are, but you’re building that very much. And now you also have additional offerings. And then Ronesha, you are in the schools? And what else is going on for you?

Ronesha: And seeing private clients as well.

Ayelet: Awesome. That’s very cool. Let’s hear a little bit because some of you have, again, like had been doing private work, doing solopreneur kind of work on your own before, and some of you hadn’t. So I know that that’s one of the big shifts like for Carly, for instance. And I know you can speak to that. But what are some of those in general big shifts for you that have happened in your life, in your business, or in say, the goals that you have for your life and business, as a result of being part of this program? And Carly, since I mentioned you, go ahead and go first.

Carly: Sure. So I discovered the program about a year ago. And at that time, I had this vision of one day, I’m going to have my own private practice. And one day, I’m going to be leading these classes multiple days a week. And that’s what I want to be doing with my time. But when I signed up for the program, I wasn’t quite there yet.

So I went through the modules, I did the training, I did my demo class. And then I just sort of sat with it all for a few months, until, you know, I felt the stars aligned, and the time was right where I could… now, where I am today is living the dream that I saw for myself many years ago when I decided to be a speech language pathologist. But even more recently, a year ago when I signed up for the program. And you know, now I’m doing that work that I wanted to be doing, then.

Ayelet: You’re doing the thing!

Carly: So, complete 180 shift.

Melanie: Congratulations!!

Ayelet:And you can actually listen to an entire podcast episode of the Learn With Less® podcast with Carly telling her full story, which is just on our website, if you look up Carly on the website with a Y, Carly with y. Who else… what I mean, and again, it doesn’t have to be that ginormous shift. But like, I know that things have shifted for every single one of you. So let’s let’s hear some more about that. Who else would like to go ahead?

Ronesha :For me, like, I just I had like this huge like imposter syndrome going on. Like I still do. But like, it’s just so much better now! Like with how I see myself last year compared to right now, this program definitely has pushed me out of my comfort zone and also gives me the confidence to be like, You know what, you do have the skills! Thank you, Ayelet, by the way, I do have the skills, and you know, I can lead these classes, I can take on private clients. So that’s been a shift for me, for sure.

Ayelet: Thanks for sharing that. That’s so great.

Allie: To go along with that, too. I feel like the Learn With Less® program and modules and community have really helped me feel comfortable establishing myself as a presence versus just this like random person that some people know about that is very skilled but me being hesitant to seek out marketing, to… I was very terrified of even creating like an Instagram or social like, I feel like that the social media piece has been I’m even just creating a website. I did not do that for the first three years of my private practice. It was just teeny tiny word of mouth.

People found me because they knew somebody I was working with, and got referred, but then I think there’s there’s a level of ownership and confidence that comes when you kind of put yourself out there and are really proud of what you create, and what you yourself have created! You’re kind of identifying, what skills do I want to tell the world about? How do I represent myself in my community? And that’s been something that has has been huge for me over the last year that I wasn’t even close to prior to kind of investing.

Ayelet: I love that. Melanie, how about you?

Melanie: Oh, Allie, you just had a perfect segue for me because I’m going to address the marketing part. Because I know, and the conversation I had with Ayelet after finishing that module, like I am, I’m gonna say this, again, I am the one person you do not want to sell things to, because I will have a ton of questions, I will always think about the game and I don’t like being pressured, like it has to align with my values. And that’s who I am as a person. My old housemate was a salesperson. And she noticed that she’s like, God, You’re horrible.

Ayelet: Discerning, you’re discerning!

Melanie: There you go, I’m discerning! But I was so turned off by a lot of network marketers, and but just hearing it shifted as more of like a conversation and that there is a need, definitely like shifted my whole mindset about what marketing is, especially for us as SLPs. And for anyone leading “caregiver & me” classes, really, if you’re doing a service, it’s quite different versus marketing for a product. Like that’s what I’ve also noticed, I mean, it’s probably same concepts. But for me, I feel more comfortable with the ideas of marketing and advertising now, because I don’t have to be that pushy salesperson, right? The pushy, sleazy car salesman, I don’t have to be that person.

And that’s what Learn With Less® has really taught me with all the modules, a lot of it is conversations, you have conversations in our group, we have conversations virtually, and we hone in until those little support groups and see what people hear when people are talking about like, I never thought of it that way before. I never thought about looking at a toy posting on Amazon and seeing it as a way to shape my marketing for my services at all!

Ayelet: Yes, yeah. So awesome. I know you have all had that, like come to “higher power” moment with, with your own understanding or feeling towards marketing. Does anyone else have anything to share about that? Yeah, Carly!

Carly :I can say, so, you know, it was something that I knew zero about prior to taking the Learn With Less® course. And one of the things that really spoke to me is that in marketing myself and my services, I’m essentially selling me, you know, and so really channeling that and being my full authentic self and having it be real and relatable to the people in our community, I think helped me to put myself out there in a way that I was comfortable with, and in a way that I think people responded to because it was genuine and real. Not a sleazy sales person.

Ayelet: Yeah, totally.

Carly: So, that was, that was really helpful.

Ayelet: I loved also, you know that some of you like Ronesha and Carly, you can both pull from your own specific experiences as mothers, but and Melanie and Allie, you pull from other things. I mean, Melanie, Melanie has a dog, and that, she is a dog mom, and it’s very clear. And she absolutely is a caregiver. And we all know that. And that is not something to mess with. Am I right? I’m not wrong, right?

Melanie: Yeah, especially when you got the vet bill come in through Oh, my God. I am learning a lot about being a solo, a single mom. Right.

Ayelet: Right. But I’d love to talk a little bit about… because I do actually get this question about people especially linked to that sort of imposter syndrome feeling of like, well, how can I serve, you know, parents and caregivers in this way, if I’m not one myself? Which I think I, it’s a totally valid question. But somehow it’s a different role, right. It’s a different role as a facilitator of a group, as a, as parent support versus just like you as the expert, maybe telling a parent how to get their child to communicate or to work on sensory needs, or whatever it is that you specialize in, or you work with, or how you work with children or our parents.

So I’d love specifically to hear from those of you who do not have human children, like was that something that you struggled with or wondered about in the beginning, and is like, how has that sort of resolved for you? And what are the places that you pull from as far as experience?

Melanie: Allie, mind if I go first?

Allie Hit it!

Melanie: Okay, so for me, how do I put this? So culturally and community wise, I service both monolingual populations, but I also service bilingual populations, specifically Spanish speaking populations, and culturally, a lot of times they see us more as like authority figures. And so regardless of whether or not I have children or not the fact that I am a professional, they have that respect or they understand that I do with expertise, I do I warn them, hey, I might be an expert in communication, but you are the expert for your child. So we work together. And that’s how I kind of minimize that imposter syndrome feeling because I am looking through the lens of communication not as a lens of a parent. And so I put it out there that this is a team effort.

I’m not going to tell you, I know this about your child, because you probably know that too, if not more so. But I look and I always tell my parents that when – I’m especially now thank you Ayelet, by the way – I tell them that I’m coming in here to help you change what you’re already doing. You are doing something right, let’s just add a little bit more. Yeah. And so that’s what I’ve been telling a lot of the families that I’ve been working with now, regardless of whatever language they’re doing.

So yes, I’m a dog, mom. But in the beginning of my career, especially when I was mostly in the schools, I hold a lot is my experience of a sibling of a child with autism, now young adult. So for me, my caregiver experience extends to being kind of like, my mom might even admitted like a second mom to him. So in a way, I have my own background as a caregiver.

Ayelet: Yeah, that’s great. Thank you for that. Allie, how about you?

Allie: Melanie, you’re a powerhouse. Early in my career, I got so much of well, you don’t have kids, how can you know what you’re doing? How can you know what you’re talking about? How can you know what’s best for my family? And I had a lot of childcare experience growing up, I nannied, and I babysat, I did all of that. But I really do think in the last two years with shifting my practice into routines based intervention and going through this Learn With Less®, of learning how to facilitate those conversations and shifting again, from that “I’m a therapist-expert” into how can I help your family figure out what you need? Because I don’t have all the answers for your family.

And I also think it’s a practice in kind of exploration for us to guide families to figure out what is best for them, too, because you’re you’re absolutely right, I don’t have kids of my own, I don’t know what it’s like to wake up at 3am. Yes, I wake up at 3am for my cat puking, but I don’t like have a screaming toddler. But I think also shifting into when you have other families in the room, opening up that conversation to anybody else I’ve experience with this? And like, so often just seeing that that light bulb go off of, I’m not alone, I’m you know, somebody else will give me ideas, and I can give ideas to a different family member – has been really pivotal for me, because I’m not coming in with this, I have, you know, my own child to to draw from my experience, but also knowing that we have a very different experience and skill level, two, we are coming, we are bringing a lot to the table by sharing what we know. And that’s one piece of what we have to offer. It’s not the only piece, it certainly is a very powerful piece.

And I think, in some of my classes too, parents are trying to kind of capture that person that they used to be before kids and like, what are the other things that happen before kids? How do I kind of merge myself as a, as an individual with this tiny human, like, we have different ideas of what we want to do right now. And kind of helping facilitate that piece. So I like again, it’s still a process to take off the therapy/expert hat and be like, no, no, this is the only thing that I know, I can’t rely on my other caregiving experience. But also just it’s, it is a tool and a really powerful tool as well.

Ayelet: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. What are some of the unexpected or unanticipated wins that you have experienced as a result of being part of this program? Because of course, there’s always I joined because I want to, you know, lead Learn With Less® classes, I want to lead these caregiver and me classes, like, clearly that’s often why people join this program. But I would love to hear a little bit of, what are some of the other wins? What are some of the other big sort of aha moments, the unanticipated things that have happened as a result of this time we’ve we’re spending together. Carly, you look like you have something to say!

Carly: So for me, what was unexpected was how much of a positive response I got from pretty much everybody that I reached out to in the community to let them know I’m doing this work and I’m leading these classes. Every organization, every community person that I spoke to was like, yeah, yes. Like how can I sign up? How can we work together? And so that was a huge confidence booster for me even before I led my first class this time around, was just that idea that people in my community who are in touch with the people that would possibly be attending the classes, are interested

Ayelet: In partnering with you, and giving you a voice. Yeah, that’s awesome.

Carly: So that was unexpected. Also really good, a good feeling for me.

Ayelet: So awesome. Why do you think that is? What is it that piques their interest?

Carly: I think it’s it’s a different take on anything that is going on in my community aleady, any other kind of caregiver & me or music class or thing that people are doing with their children? So having the professional, you know, a speech language pathologist there, leading this class in a different way than the lady with a guitar would, if you know what I mean. Yeah. It just was filling this void that people were searching for. Where, I think like Melanie mentioned, you don’t need Speech-Language Services, you don’t have like a labelled disorder or anything like that. But you still want this information. And you could benefit from being in this environment and learning from from a professional. And so I think that’s why.

Ayelet: Right, I mean, it kind of sells itself like, Ronesha, I think it was you that said, like, it was just the words like Learn With Less®, that absolutely resonates with many, many people, right? And we’re in this absolutely – even more so today, as we record this, like for the last almost two years, we’ve been in this, like, we have less, we have less bandwidth, we have less time, we have less patience, we have less opportunity to buy things, we have less opportunity to go and do things: it’s, what can we do with what we already have,  that in the culture and the phenomena of what we are all collectively experiencing resonates? Yeah, that’s awesome. How about for others what are some – Oh, go ahead.

Melanie: I have some, to go with the Learn With Less®, one personal win for me in terms of like my services is I have literally reduced so much of the bag lady syndrome, I can not tell you how much I have reduced like that. Ta da! That’s it!

Ayelet: That’s awesome. That’s all you bring the families’ homes.

Melanie: Well, for my, for my more like early intervention younger, you know… Like, I literally have just got in, I have nothing but like my little backpack, maybe I’ll have that just as like a little carry caddy, if my backpack feels heavy on my back. Like, I have walked in to a recent new client that I have nothing except for the handouts and like the homework, or any files give and I maybe have one toy. And then afterwards, I literally just go in and see what they’re what they’re playing with. And I just, I do my work there. And one of the dads said, you know, let’s pay attention to what she has here too, so that we can buy it and I literally had a parachute. And I just told parents, you could use a towel, you could use a blanket.

And it’s like, oh, and I even demonstrated a way to like fold it up and end the activity but have the parachute fold it up. I was like, see, you could do this with a blanket. Because now you’ll have time to play and fold your laundry. Two birds in one stone with that one. So that was like my big like, clinician win is now I’m able to confidently go in and, one, use whatever they have.

But now when they’re like playing with like, you know, one parents playing with the child, I’m actually more able to just kind of sit back and not necessarily tell them, this is what you should say. And then I now I’m starting to use more open ended like what else could you say in this opportunity? Or how about you try this? And then oh, the parent might go, Oh, yeah, or I can also say that? Exactly.

So a lot more, I feel more of like a facilitator as well as a coach in my sessions now, whereas before I was more of coach only. And then the other big one is just similar to what Carly said, just having that receptive, like, Oh, yes, I definitely need this. My Buy Nothing group has so many responses. And then they you know, because of time schedules, I didn’t have as many bookings. But there was a big response for it. I was so shocked to see that there were people who really wanted it and to go with it, you know.

Ayelet: Yeah, I mean, we’re in we’re in a time when people are like really needing that connection, you know, families, especially new parents for whom their children have been born within a pandemic, for instance, they personally need time to connect, they’re looking for places where their children can connect. And again, whether that is in person or virtual, because it’s both and actually Ronesha, I would love for you to share a little bit about like that experience of of doing like your demo class, for instance, online and feeling like oh, my gosh, you know, something that surprised you was the level of connection that could be created within this class, would you would you care to share a little bit?

Ronesha: Oh yeah, no, that’s exactly what I was thinking about that. So, I was trying to figure out why it made such a big difference for me and it, I feel like it’s just because, you know, I’m a parent of young children. And with this pandemic going on, you’re starting to feel isolated, and it was just a way… I was surprised and like, oh my gosh, I need this as much as they need it, too.

And then I posted in like a Black moms group and it was also just the connection of just being with other parents of color. And it was just like surprising to me, a good, surprising win. So like, when you are leading these classes, it’s not just them that’s getting the community out of it. You are too. So I think that’s important.

Ayelet: Yeah, yeah, I mean that getting to watch your demo class too, for me was just like so special, because there were so many connections that people were making. And, and you all can watch that if you haven’t yet, as in that everyone who’s present here on this call, it’s in one of our, in our example of demo classes that we have, and it’s lovely. Like, they’re these parents, and they, they’re two of them were like, Oh, you’re from the islands, I’m from the islands. It was – or three! – it was amazing, it was just really neat to see that level of connection with people who had never met each other.

Ronesha: It was online, too.

Ayelet: And it was a totally virtual class. And so it was just it was like, beautiful. So yeah. What about what other kind of like unexpected or unanticipated wins, Ronesha, have you experienced as a result, you know, of being part of this?

Ronesha: I think we kind of talked about it a little bit before, but like, just I’m not like a huge poster of my, posting things on social media. I just, No, that’s not me. But like, ever since I was forced to find people for my demo, it’s like, I just like even with my private practice, I’m just more of like, okay, it is what it is. I’m just gonna do it. So I call that a win. And like all areas of my life, and it definitely started with having to do the demo and finding people.

Ayelet:That’s so good. Allie, have you shared?

Allie: No, but I think this this program, and this experience really forces a lot of us outside of our comfort zone in many different ways. And it’s unique for each person, too. I have a similar like, just surprised at how powerful the connection is not only for families, but for myself as well, like just leading in this in this slightly different way of for me, it’s kind of a relief too, like, okay, it’s not a therapy session, okay, we can we can just kind of create this community. But I think we also enter it into it being like, is it gonna work? How’s it gonna go? What’s this going to be like? Why am I doing this? What and I think we’re kind of expecting it to go awry. Or we’re kind of trying to be careful with how much we invest in it. Because you know, we are in a time where our, you know, our bandwidth is very slim, we are pulled in a million a million directions and putting ourselves out there is incredibly scary.

But we’re also seeing the reward of that of like, every time I end a Learn With Less® class, even if I’m like, oh, no, I didn’t. I didn’t know all the lyrics. Or I was stressing out about gathering materials (which is just so ironic), but it is what it is. But I close my screen. And I’m like, That’s my why! That like, I’m thrilled. And I’m it’s always a surprise, but it’s it is something that’s so powerful. And then I get, when I send out the post class survey, just warm fuzzies all in and most people are like, “yeah, that was great. This was wonderful. I met a friend, I am thinking about things in a different way.”

And even the hard moments to where, you know, we might end a class and like toddlers were awry, somebody was crying. It’s still sharing a very real moment with people. And I think also creating the space for it to be like, this is just part of the day. And that’s okay. It doesn’t have to be Pinterest, perfect. It doesn’t have to be picture perfect. It doesn’t have to be all out there for us to be like, Yep, I see your humanity. We’re here together.

Ayelet: Yes! And that, but I don’t know, I think when I was experiencing having very young children, and like hearing other people talk about classes that they went to, or going to classes myself, like that experience of being in a group wherein the facilitator was not understanding of like, everything is different for everybody, or did not create a space in which like, it doesn’t matter, whatever happens, happens, it’s totally fine. Of course, go feed your baby or do it right here. Or, of course, change your child’s diaper. Like wherever you need to do it, it’s totally cool. Or if you need to step away, it’s fine. Or if your child is asleep, no problem. All of the things where, a big part of what we do in our classes is to contain a space that is inclusive to wherever you’re at, right? And acknowledging that like the [BLANK] hit the fan, and you’re you’re really exhausted as a new parent and holding that space for families is such an important piece of it.

So I would love to hear because this is actually a question that I get a lot from people is about your time, like how much time have you spent and do you spend? Like how much time did you each dedicate to getting through the training itself? Or how difficult was it to complete and Ronesha, because you’re right next to me, go ahead.

Ronesha: Sure. So when I was doing the training, I would take just a Sunday afternoon and just like take time for myself that was like my me time, and I’d go and I’d just do it, it was just an afternoon each week that it came out and and then whenever whenever it was time to do the demo, I would take about… I’m very… I just want everything to be perfect sort of thing before I even go out and do it but I think it was a push from Ayelet, was like, okay, like, let’s set a deadline for yourself.

And then so that really helped. And then I’m just now getting started with leading classes. And right now I’m going to go ahead and spend about, I usually spend about like, an hour a day, like just getting things like if I need marketing stuff that’s just been in the last couple of weeks, like just me gearing up to hold some classes,

Ayelet: Do you… and we’ll hear from everybody else, too. But do you feel like that amount of time is going to be what’s necessary for you to get stuff going, and continuity wise, like to keep things up? Or do you feel like that will shift or

Ronesha: No, I feel like that will shift. I’m just like I said, very, like, I need to make sure things is like, perfect. And I do know that that’s like something that I need to work on. But it’s, I feel like once I start getting going, like, it’s not gonna be like a lot to do. I just started like, just starting to hold it, though. I am putting a lot more time upfront.

Ayelet: Right, and then creating those systems for consistency. Yeah, that’s awesome. Allie, you’re nodding a lot why don’t you go ahead. How about you for…

Allie: I want to hop onto Melanie because she has to leave sooner than I do.

Ayelet: Go ahead. Melanie, go ahead.

Melanie: Similar to what Ronesha said, it just, I feel like about an hour, or maybe even a little less to prepare for the demo class that I did. And now that I got like the feel of it, for those two, in particular, I feel like the time preparing will be a little bit less. It’s more of like reviewing the lesson and making sure I know, okay, what am I looking for? Or like, what am I trying to facilitate and guide for today’s lesson.

The one that I think it will be a little harder will be I thought to look at the Spanish lessons, because I haven’t looked through all of those yet. So I am fluent-like I’m not a native speaker. So if anyone else is interested in facilitating those classes, and are in my boat, it might take a little bit longer just to read through the lessons and also modify the vocabulary if needed, since not every Spanish speaking household uses the same vocabulary, right? So I might have to, one modify the vocabulary.

But my pre-survey for those classes might be different. I might have to actually ask what regions are you from? Because from there, I could actually figure out, do I have to address all the different vocabularies? Like do I have to address all four words for car or something like that. So, I might literally have to shift my brain in like five directions, depending on the class.

Ayelet: That’s so interesting. Yeah. I mean, I think it’s so it’s fascinating, right? When we start to look at language, and whether we’re looking at one language or multiple languages. I mean, I think there’s space too for like asking a family like, oh, what word do you use for for car for coche, for carro, like, which one do you use? And then just putting it in there as you go along? Like, but But yes, I think you’re right, that’s a whole other level of things that you’re going to need to think about. Because you’re thinking about leaving classes in two different languages, potentially. So yeah.

Melanie: Yes. So yeah, that’s but I mean, you already saw it didn’t take me long once I actually started and spent the time, I had to do it in the summer, because I knew my schedule. And I knew the school year was gonna be very interesting this this year, and I knew that the breaks are when I’m going to be able to focus on Learn With Less®. So, the next time I’m going to offer some classes would be like that Christmas, winter holiday break. Yeah.

Ayelet: Yeah. So that’s awesome. And how about you for the training, because I see you have to go sorry, I didn’t actually see that in the chat until just now. Melanie, how long did you you know, what kind of time did you dedicate to getting through the actual training? What did that look like for you?

Melanie: Like one night, two nights a week, really, just setting myself a time where, you know, Puppy was down and somewhat compliant. And then I could actually focus on a module. And if I had to pause, I had to pause. But I found a time in my schedule to actually say I can pretty much get uninterrupted time for about two hours, more or less so.

Ayelet: And how, how long would you all say that each of the modules would take you and of course they vary because some of them have more – of those six modules, some of them have more in them than others. And like Allie, you were part of our original set of facilitators. So of course, it’s grown. So I’m sure you’ve gone through and looked at stuff again, but especially like Ronesha, Carly, and Melanie, who have been through it a little bit more recently, at least, how long did did each of those modules take for you to complete? Specifically,

Ronesha: Probably one to two hours, I think…

Ayelet: Okay, that’s what I say.

Carly: I would agree with that.

Ayelet: Okay, good. Yeah. Melanie, would you agree?

Melanie: Probably!

Ayelet:  Okay. Okay, good. That’s good to hear. Because that’s what I say to people. Thank you, Melanie, you’re heading out.

Melanie: Yes, I have another client to go to. I think some my final word is to let go of control as much as you can. Really let go of a lot of control because sometimes… I think Allie, you also told this to me too. Like if you just let it go. It’s like you know when the class goes, that’s when the best moments happen. And it’s true. Like, just let it go.

It’s okay. I mean, everything I realized you just let it go. Like I didn’t know I was gonna be in private practice. I literally just fell into it, kind of going through and then realizing my dream during the pandemic was, that was my eye opener, really to shifting mentalities and saying, no, I am really wanting to go to private practice and shift gears and focus on early intervention. So let go of control.

Allie: Let it go, let it go!

Ronesha: I was totally thinking in my head the whole time!

Melanie: I mean, in the school systems, two years of girls and boys singing Let It Go, the whole time. I’m like, all right, I’m over this! Let it go, I’m done!

Ayelet: So good. Melanie, thank you so much for for coming and chatting with us today.

Melanie: Thank you, have a good morning, bye, or afternoon for east coasters!

Allie: I can go next, because I have to hop off soon. I think it took me about six months to get to the modules. Pandemic had just hit, and I was also planning my wedding. So I took it really slow. I took it as I could, sometimes it was 30 minutes, like, in a month. Other times, I knocked out two modules in a week. For my planning, it depends on if I’m running a four class series or a single drop in class, I am still working on my systems to make a lot more things automatic in terms of, because I send out the zoom with myself, I email out the pre- and post-class survey.

I’m… so it can because I’m also a, in these moments, a very detail oriented person, like I check the email four times. I check that I sent it out four times. Versus another moment, I’m just like, what it will happen with whatever happens. So my classes are usually around 45 minutes to an hour. And then around at that the actual class itself, I may have an hour of prep time, that’s 30 minutes before 30 minutes after. I’ve gotten better, I set a timer for myself for 15 minutes, I look at the materials list, and I say okay, I’m just gonna get this. Otherwise, I’m going to spend three days looking in my my kitchen cabinet.

Trying to like just set some systems for myself to minimize the amount because I could also spend a lot more time prepping than I need to. And so on a good day, like 30 minutes to get the emails out, to send out the handout afterwards to gather all my materials. If I’m prepping for a series, then it might take a little bit longer, so closer to an hour.

But and that’s this, I’m going to be honest, this month, I have not done too much. I don’t have any classes going, and I haven’t done any advertising, marketing, anything. So I’ve spent no time on it. Other months, it might be like you know, 30 minutes to four hours. It just it really depends and that’s the beauty of it is that it’s flexible for what you need when you need it.

Ayelet: Such a key piece, too. And I love hearing that because it is, it can totally shift depending on the season in your life. That’s great.

Allie: Thank you lovely ladies, have an amazing day.

Ayelet: Thanks so much, Allie. All right, who would like to go next?

Carly: I can kind of pick up on where Allie just left off, in that depending on the season of your life that you’re in, and I have experienced both having a lot of time to dedicate and having zero time to dedicate – and I made it work in both scenarios. So in terms of getting through the modules and doing the training, I did, I spent about an hour or two on like a Saturday or a Sunday and I was doing the modules as they became available to me. Yeah. So I got through them pretty quick in about six weeks and then leading up to module six I was already thinking about my demo and prepping for that so that I could do that. I think the following week.

Ayelet:  You were fast.

Carly: Yeah, I got through the training really fast. And then I set up a four class series with very little time dedicated to marketing that you know, yes, just an email that I sent out to friends of friends of friends and got a full class that way which took very little time on my part. And then, now that I’m in my own private practice and I am I have the space to dedicate more time I’m doing it so I’m doing a social media post every day. I’m scrolling through the mommy groups on Facebook to see, you know, do some social listening and hear where I can be of service to those families. I’m leading multiple classes a week so, but I lead the same class!

Ayelet: Very smart! So easy.

Carly: So then I kind of keep everything in my trunk and don’t tell my husband because he hates when the car becomes a storage..

Ayelet: But it’s just your spatula!

Carly: Ha, but bought a rolling laundry bin, is my where I stash everything. I take that with me everywhere I go and it has my blanket and all my materials.

Ronesha: I like that idea!

Carly: Yeah, and it speaks to the brand.

Ayelet: That’s really smart. Yeah.

Carly: And you know it practical.

Ronesha: And functional.

Carly: Yeah, totally, and so you know, now because I have the time, I’m dedicating more time because I want to and I have the time for it. And when I didn’t, I didn’t. Yeah.

Ayelet: All right. Well, thank you for coming today! Ronesha or Carly, do either of you have anything else that you would like to share? Just you know, from the heart, anything that is something that you just that makes you feel good about being this program?

Ronesha: I think community of it all. And like, like Carly was saying, like, some sometimes I just don’t have the time. And sometimes I do have the time. And then whenever I come back to the group, you guys are like, hey! You know, it’s just, you don’t have to feel pressured to do it to do it. But when you have the time, just do it. Also, I just love that I’m able to just put myself out there and be with a group of people who get it and, and are supportive as well.

Ayelet: Yeah, that’s huge. Awesome. We’re so happy, you’re, you’re part of it, Ronesha!

Carly: This, this community that you’ve built, Ayelet, is like, unlike anything that I’ve experienced professionally, in my career, it’s amazing to be surrounded by a group of like-minded individuals who understand each other and who are supportive of each other and who celebrate everything, and are there for, you know, whatever that other person needs to share. And, and there’s no, you know, there’s just no negativity. It’s so positive and uplifting. It’s really great.

Ayelet: I’m so glad to hear that. It’s that for me too, so. Thanks for keeping it awesome. Yeah. Yay. Well, thank you all for being here. And to those of you who are watching in the future, thank you and please go ahead and DM me any questions that you have, you are welcome to apply for the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training and Certification Program over at learnwithless.com/certification. We’d love to see it come through and we’d love to hear more about you. So go ahead and submit that application today. Looking forward to being in community with you!

The post Why Become A Parent Educator? Ask These Learn With Less® Facilitators appeared first on Learn With Less.

In this episode of the Learn With Less® podcast, Ayelet sits down with pediatric speech-language pathologist, parent educator, Learn With Less® facilitator, mother, and founder of Kidnection LLC, Carly Dorfman. Carly is based in Parkland, Florida, and serves families in her private practice both within therapy, as well as in the community with family enrichment classes for infant and toddler families, in a “caregiver & me” setting.

Her experiences as a speech-language pathologist (and a mom!) makes her an incredible resources for parents and caregivers in her community searching for high-quality, evidence based resources to help them connect with their babies and toddlers, and support early learning and development.

Not familiar with the term, “caregiver & me” classes? We use it as a more inclusive term instead of “mommy & me” classes. Our classes are open – and meant for – ALL parents and caregivers: not just moms… but also dads, non-binary folks, grandparents, foster parents, babysitters, and other amazing grownups who care for tiny humans. We’re going to play the “search term” game here (so you can find this great content more easily!) and help shift the conversation from “mommy & me” classes to “caregiver & me” classes… to do our part to shape the more inclusive world we’d like to live in.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Carly’s educational and professional background, and how she came to do the work she’s doing today
• How and why she made the transition from steady, full time work as a speech-language pathologist to business owner in her own private practice
• The various “hats” she wears (speech-language pathologist, parent educator, mom, etc) and why all these roles actually create MORE balance in her life
• What COVID had to do with the shifts Carly has made in her life
• How she gained confidence in herself to move forward with her big dream of running community-based classes for families and becoming a go-to early intervention resource in her community for new parents and caregivers
• Why leading Learn With Less® “caregiver & me” classes speaks to her soul and reinforces the work she was already doing as a therapist, allowing her to create additional impact on families and on her own bottom line

Learn With Less® podcast episode: Enrich Your Practice as a Parent Educator, with Sara Moreno

Learn With Less® podcast episode: Educating Parents to be Their Child’s First Teacher, with Rachel Kammeyer

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How to Impact Your Community With Parent Education and Parent Coaching Skills, with Laurel Smith

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How Lesley Took Her Existing Skills as an Educator, and Started Serving Infant/Toddler Families In a Holistic, Meaningful Way

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How to Use Your Skills as an Educator or Therapist to Serve Families Holistically as a Parent Educator, with Allie Glazer

Learn With Less® Bundle: get our favorite infant and toddler development resources (save 70%)! Discover how to support & connect with your tiny human, without having to buy a single toy.

Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program: Use your existing skills as an educator or therapist to serve families holistically with a high quality program that will provide lasting impact! Apply now to become a licensed facilitator Learn With Less®.

Learn With Less® “Caregiver & Me” Classes: the magic of Learn With Less® lies in the communal aspect of coming together with our resources, in community with other families. Join us for a virtual or in-person class led by a licensed facilitator near you!

Carly: Website / Instagram / Facebook 

Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest

Ayelet: Before we get started today, I want to just let you know that we will be speaking a lot today about the Learn With Less® facilitator training & certification program. If you are an educator or therapist interested in becoming a licensed learn with less facilitator and integrating “caregiver & me” classes into your offerings or practice, you are invited to apply now at learnwithless.com/certification. If you’re actually listening to this on or around the day this episode airs on October 11, 2021, I recommend you get your application in today, as we’ll be leading a live Q&A roundtable event this Friday the 15th, for accepted applicants! Just head over to learnwithless.com/certification and submit your application today.

If you are a parent or caregiver interested in learning more about resources to help you feel confident you can support and connect with your tiny humans, we would love you to start by downloading my free infant/toddler development blueprint, over at learnwithless.com/blueprint, today!

Ayelet: Welcome, Carly – Welcome to the Learn With Less® podcast! I’m so happy to speak to you today and have you here to chat about all things Learn With Less®. You have been a big part of the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training and Certification Program over the last year, almost a year. It’s been almost a year since you joined. And you have… you have made some serious progress, you have made some changes in your life since joining us in the program and deciding that you wanted to start leading Learn With Less® “caregiver & me” classes, and all different kinds of things. So I’d love to chat with you all about that today, and I’m just very happy that you’re here!

Carly: I’m so happy I’m here! I told Ayelet I’ve been waiting for my turn to do the podcast. I know there’s a few other facilitators who have done it, previously. And I’m so excited that I’m at this point where I’ve taken the course, I’ve led the classes, and now I’m here to talk about it.

Ayelet: Yeah, well, and it has been a real evolution for you, both just logistically and as well as, like, mindset stuff. So I’m very happy to have you here, in this space. And I have grown to really love to feature all of you because Learn With Less® has really, as you know, it started with me doing all of these things. But now I get to pass the baton and that is extremely gratifying – and is work that I absolutely love and could never have even foreseen how much I would love doing this. And to see you where you are today and moving forward every day is pretty phenomenal. So let’s get into it! Carly, will you tell us a little bit about you, where you are in the world, your pronouns, a bit about your professional background, and how you got into sort of doing the work that you’re doing these days?

Carly: Sure! So, I am Carly, she/her, I live in Parkland, Florida, and I am a speech-language pathologist by trade, and I’m a mom of two kids. I have a four year old daughter and a two year old son, and I am also a parent educator. So I’ve been working as an SLP for almost 10 years. And throughout my career. I’ve worked in lots of different settings. I started out in private practice, moved into the schools did a little stint with adults went back into a private practice and just recently started my own business. So…

Ayelet: Chills, yes!

Carly: Yeah, it’s it’s a lot – it’s a lot to say! Just saying it out loud is like, wow, what have I done?! And so, I’ve always had a passion for working with children. Even prior to my career as a speech pathologist. I was a camp counselor and babysitter, I was a nanny when I was in grad school. So, working with kids was always a part of my life. And what I realized when I started working as a speech therapist with children is that every child comes with an adult, there’s always a caregiver involved. And when, you know, I’m doing my work with the child, there’s always a conversation to be had with those adults about what I’m working on with the kid, the progress the child’s making, answering all the questions that they have. And so as much as I wanted to stay away from working with adults, professionally as a speech therapist, I realized that in working with kids, you’re also in a way working with adults as well, for sure. Yeah. So you know, that’s sort of what drew me to more of the parent educator, part of my “hat.” You know, we all wear many hats. One of those is parent educator. And where I lived for a long time was just being a parent educator about what I was doing as a speech therapist, and then more things came.

Ayelet: Tell us about those things, Carly?

Carly: Oh, I would say like I said, it was about a year ago when I discovered Learn With Less®, but this idea of parent education and classes and wanting to teach and share information really stemmed out of COVID which for a lot of people out there, you know, COVID had hidden blessings in it – although it’s a terrible, you know, situation for many people. It’s just… sparked some ideas in my head. So I was actually talking with one of my best friends who lives in Canada. And she said to me, you know, like, we’re both home with our kids, right? Going kind of crazy in COVID land. And when we were in lockdown, that’s what I’m referring to. Yeah, yeah.

This idea was planted where she said to me, oh, there’s this speech therapist in Toronto, and she does “mommy and me,” and maybe you could do that! And she, at the time during COVID, was leading… She was working in the entertainment industry doing like parties and events, and she decided, oh, I’m going to do “mommy and me” workout classes. So she was like, Oh, you can do something like that, speech therapy. And I was like, okay… so the seed was planted, I would like write random notes on random napkins and sheets of paper. And I was just disorganized about it all. And then I think it must have been just a Google search that led me to you, like, speech therapy, mommy and me, how to… I was at a loss, like, I’m the type B SLP. Like, I mess with my organization and my thoughts. You know, they’re all in here. But getting them out is always been a challenge for me.

Ayelet: There’s a lot of us in the program, actually.

Carly: Yeah! But… when I found your program, and I watched the video, there was a training. I said to my husband, I think it was late at night too. I was watching it in bed. And I, like, woke my husband up and I was like, she’s talking to me!!! She’s speaking to my soul. I have to know more. And I was just it was like, this is, this is it. This is what I’ve been looking for! Something that just takes everything that’s been in my head and organizes it in a way that I can make sense, I can learn, because the – the training modules, there was a lot in there that I didn’t know, that I needed to know, you know, prior to leading the classes, even things about how to collect payments, and you know, what to charge and how to get the word out all of that stuff. I had no idea! So, I found your program, we had so many amazing conversations, I think I cried…

Ayelet: I will not confirm or deny.

Carly: And once I signed up for the program and started listening to the modules and taking my notes and just learning from you and having conversations with you, I was like, this I have to, like this was like my calling almost, I have to do this! And in my community as well. There’s there’s so many young families where I live and no programming, none! And everyone, everyone, a lot of people that I know go into the neighboring communities for classes for their children and for services for their children. So I was like, yeah, we need this here.

Ayelet: Tell tell us more about the community. Is it is it small, it’s not rural. Is it suburban? Is it close to a large city, like what’s what’s the deal?

Carly: So, Parkland is, it’s very residential. Not a lot of businesses within Parkland or like shopping centers or anything like that. It’s mostly residential. I don’t know the population size, but it’s pretty average. It’s not small. It’s not big, very suburbia. And so the next biggest city, I would say is Boca Raton, Florida is nearby. Fort Lauderdale, Florida is not too far. So Miami is about 45 minutes to an hour from where I live. So we’re kind of, we’re like in this little northwest pocket of South Florida. And if you go any more West, you’re in the Everglades.

So we’re, so it’s a pretty new city, they’re doing a lot of new construction in the area. So lots of new families coming in. And it’s a very tight knit community. I don’t know if you remember this a few years ago, there was a shooting at our high school. So since that happened, you know, the community just got together and we’re very close, very tight. There’s kind of like one of everything. There’s just one, you know, one grocery store, there’s one gas station, you know, one or two restaurants one ice cream shop.

Ayelet: And one “caregiver and me” parent educator speech therapist, now!

Carly: Yeah, exactly. So I am that. And I am so happy to be bringing that to my community. And you know, so far the feedback has been amazing. And I’m so grateful that I found the program when I did and I’m offering the classes now when I’m offering them and that it’s all, it’s all happening.

Ayelet: Well, I mean, you made it happen, number one, but I want to go back for just a second and ask you a little bit about, yes, there’s the fact that the Learn With Less® program puts it all into this clear, step by step, plug and play sort of ready made business in a box type idea, but I’m sure there was something also about the actual philosophy of the curriculum that resonated with you, too, and I would love to hear a little bit about what that was for you, and why you also like whether you could imagine that that was something that your community would resonate with. So tell us about that.

Carly: It mostly resonated with me on a personal level, as a mother and a caregiver to my two children, the philosophy of learning with less that you don’t need a single toy, and that you are your child’s best educator. And that, you know, you can use whatever you have at home to create these beautiful opportunities for growth and development of your child… is what drew me to the program the most.

I have a ton of toys sitting over there, in a bucket, taking over my living room – an exploding bucket taking over my living room, and my kids are more interested in what’s going on in the kitchen and what I’m doing. You know, they want to copy me and take all of my stuff and do what I’m doing and pretend to be mommy and you know, all of that. So I totally related to that aspect of the program.

And in my own speech therapy practice, I use a lot of this same philosophy that we can create your communication opportunities, and I can support your child’s language and development through the routines that are already happening in your daily life. We don’t need the special tools and bag of tricks, like what’s real for you what’s really happening and create opportunities there and around that.

Ayelet: Beautiful, I love that. Okay, so there was the actual programmatic function of getting yourself through from where you were to this other side of having this, you know, way to holistically serve families and create more of like a parent education presence in your community. And also there was a philosophy resonance as well, that you felt, like Learn With Less® was clearly something that you were already utilizing in theory, and this was bring it all together. So tell us,  what did life look like when you started the program?

I mean, I remember you, Carly, actually, number one, you you have two small children, as you said, and you were in a full time job, and you actually were the first person to complete the entire training program in six weeks. And then not only that, but then also get your demo done and host a class. And then very quickly after host a whole series of paid classes, because you went through this program, you got it done, you did the demo, you then were able to like fill a whole class series of people who wanted to pay for your class, really by word of mouth. And I’d love to hear more about that if you’re willing to share here. And then… and then you…

Carly: And then radio silence!

Ayelet: And then radio silence, right. So let’s talk a little bit about that. Because after you made money, you actually made money from this program, right? You started to like recuperate the cost of investment, and you knew you could do it. Let’s hear a little bit about that. What happened in your own head when you realize that this was, like, real?

Carly: Yeah, so like you said, I was… what I found the class and I was going through the modules, I was doing them on the weekends, I would do them during my son’s nap. And that was like my Learn With Less® time, my husband would take my daughter and I had like, I was like, in school, you know, I was very motivated and focused on getting the information because I was like, so hungry for it. I needed, I needed to know more and more and more and more, I would even listen to your podcasts while I was waiting for the next module to come out. I would listen to the podcast, like on my way to work. And I was just so invested and I wanted to… and that’s that’s how I am – I love to learn. And I’m like a lifelong learner. I just I, my dad always said, if you could just stay in school forever, you would. Like, I just love learning.

So I was very motivated to get the information and to learn how to do this thing. And then I, yeah, and then I was like, I have to do my demo. And I got, you know, my two friends together. And they had babies around the same age. Like I think they were six or seven months at the time. And I wanted their honest feedback, too, about like, what do you think? Like, can I do this? And that went amazing. Yeah, and then those same friends told their friends or friends of friends, the friends and again because of COVID we had this national virtual “caregiver & me” class. And it was amazing! And it was so nice for the people that were in the class to get to know each other. And for people who lived on opposite sides of the country to have this quality time together with their babies and get to see each other once a week… because as moms we’re always go go go go go, you know. And so even to pick up the phone like to talk to a friend we forget. And like weeks go by, right? So this was like, designated time where we all stopped. And I got to really realize that this is what I need to be doing and how much it filled my soul. And I loved it. And I was working full time, but I was doing the classes on the weekends during my son’s nap. And thank God for that.

And I think it was… I had a four class series, and I had, you know, five to six families each time and people who signed up for all four, and you know, if they didn’t get to see it, and they got to watch the recordings, and we were, you know, it was great. And so then when the series was over, I said, that was a lot to be working full time, and do my classes and have time for my kids and my husband and myself. Yeah. And so I said, you know, this is not going anywhere. And when the time is right, I will be able to go back into offering my classes, but that time wasn’t right then. Yeah, that was I think back in April. And then, you know, I went back to working my nine to five, I had felt the tug to want to be doing more classes, I got to be doing these classes, and my community needs me! Like, I really felt that! And I had all of these ideas in my head.

Again, I would start writing on my napkins and writing in my phone and writing on random places, all of the people that I wanted to contact to let them know I’m offering these classes and I just kept a running list and the list kept on getting longer. And so now we’re in the end of July. Summer at my previous job is like the busiest time where all the kids are coming because it’s summer and they had time off from school. And so it’s so crazy.

And that last week of July, I get COVID. I locked myself in my bedroom and my husband was taking care of the kids and I had nothing to do but ruminate on my thoughts. And the loudest thought in my head is, “you need to… you need to do these classes. You need to follow your heart and your dream of running your own business and being your own boss and creating your own schedule and everything that comes along with that.” And so because I had nothing else to do, I started checking names off that list. I couldn’t go to work but I still had my job technically… but I was stuck. So I’m like what do I have to lose? I started reaching out to all the people on that list. Wow. And as I was going through, I was getting like all the “yeses.”

Ayelet: What were you saying to people, just local others like service providers in your community?

Carly: I reached out to a few preschools in my community I reached out to like the local community center, I reached out to like indoor play space kind of facility that has classes. And friends, you know, like people that are sort of in my industry but not speech therapists but they’re, you know, I have a friend that I went to college with… she does art classes for kids in Miami. I have another friend who does the dance classes for kids yoga classes, you know people who offer services to families but not exactly what I did. Yeah.

And then… my daughter also tested positive, so then my extension of not going back to work just got even longer, and my husband and my son ended up leaving and going staying somewhere else, so it was just me and my daughter. Oh my gosh, thank god both of us were pretty much okay. She was sick for a few days but mostly she was okay, and that was it. So once that was happening I decided: if this is happening to my family, I need to make something good come out of it. I can’t go back to my life how it was.

And so I decided to leave my job, start my business, start offering those classes and setting dates and getting the word out there and making it happen. And I… so that was like mid August, and my kids had a little break from school, so I left my job. I had like two weeks with my kids where we were just home and I got to enjoy them and experience what life was like and just that stress of that go go go go go was gone. And I just had this whole mind shift of, I need to be living my best, happiest, most fulfilling life. Life is short.

Again, COVID made me realize that, why… what are we doing here? What are we doing here if we’re not making the most of this life that we’ve been given? And so. I was home with my kids, and then we went to go visit our family in Canada for two weeks. We haven’t been able to go see them for two years, and while I was there was when things really started happening. My brother-in-law got my website going for me, I was on the phone booking private clients, I set dates for my classes, and I started promoting them so that when I came back, boom, ready to go.

Ayelet: And so you had private speech language therapy clients, and you had groups of classes that you were planning, just to clarify for everybody, right? This is like… you hit the ground running. And I will say like, it’s so interesting, I love hearing your perspective, Carly, because of course, we have lots of people in the program who do also work full time and are also doing these classes. Sometimes people are working full time for themselves in their own practice. And sometimes they’re working full time job, say in the schools or for another private practice or for you know, in lots of different settings.

But in your case, you just felt like you did not want to divide your attention. And you, again, have a lot of things going on right? There was COVID… there, in general, there are two small children in your home, you have a partner, you have a full time job, you had all these things, and you knew you wanted to pursue this dream. And this idea of being a real… doing your own thing, being a business owner, having your own access to parent education offerings, as well, and you know, being your own private practice. Yeah, but in your case, you needed to get there in your own way.

Carly: Yeah. Yeah, it was a journey, like yes.

Ayelet: And we had many conversations over the months leading up to it.

Carly: And it was… it was a lot in my own head! I tried offering the class… So I tried the class series while I was working my full time job. Yeah, it didn’t work for me in the big scheme of things. But it doesn’t mean that it couldn’t work for someone else.

Ayelet: You know, yourself. And yeah, and they know themselves. And that’s, that’s the best part, right? Is that you have your own way of doing it, and that’s so great!

Carly: And so during that, like radio silence time, from when, it was like April till now, right, a few months back, yeah. When I, you know, was just in the grind of work and kids, and I just didn’t see… the, there was just no space. I had to make space because again, I wanted to be doing this. And so I made the leap, and yeah, I’m so much happier.

Ayelet: Yeah, I think what’s really intriguing to me about like, your story, specifically, is that you identified, way before you had the actual mental and physical and whatever space in your life, that this was something you really wanted to do. And there was like, a, I’m gonna do it now and see if it fits right now. And also, I’m gonna, I’m gonna make the space for it when I can.

But I don’t think everybody would have jumped in when you did, right? I think sometimes people would, many people would be more conservative about like, well, this is a someday plan. Right? But you, what was it about you that made it so that you knew that this was someday, but really just on the horizon? Like, how could you see that about yourself?

Carly: So I think I always wanted my own business. Yeah, I had, my brother went to speech therapy when he was a kid. And I don’t even know how the idea popped into my head that I’m going to be a speech therapist! I discovered that I think I could really like this, but I don’t really even still know what it is, but I’m going to apply. And so in my master’s degree for Speech Language Pathology, I discovered if you’re a speech language pathologist, you can work for yourself, you can have your own business, and you can make your own hours. And that sounded great. That part of the of the career also, was very appealing to me, because that’s what I wanted. I wanted, and I was 21 years old, but I knew I wanted a family and I wanted to be able to have time for my kids and still work. So that was always in my head from the minute that I started my career 10 years ago.

Ayelet: So you identified that as a clear potential trajectory. Yeah, even then.

Carly: Yeah. And then, and so like I told you in our initial conversations, it was always this dream of mine. And over the course of these 10 years, I don’t know if I ever thought that I would get to this point. And I even said in interviews, you know, they asked you like, Where do you see yourself and I would always say, like, I see myself running my own private practice. And I just kept putting that out into the universe. And and here we are, yeah. So, I just I manifested it, I guess, I don’t know. It just was something I always wanted. And after just working in an environment where it was like therapy, therapy, therapy, therapy all day long, I knew that when it came to private practice, I wanted a more diverse offering for myself and for the community.

So the Learn With Less® classes helped me to not feel that burnout of just one-on-one therapy all day. And it’s just something fun, and it also helps to build that community, and to position myself in the community as the speech language pathologist that you can come to with any kinds of questions about any area of development – it doesn’t only have to be speech, and that’s something else that I love about the class. And I forgot to mention that, that in my previous job, we worked in a in a facility that treated we had OTs, and teachers, and audiologists, and all kinds of professionals touching on the four areas of development that the Learn With Less® program touches on. And so that also spoke to my soul, that that’s how we have to look at things, you know?

Ayelet: Right, holistically, right!

Carly: Exactly.

Ayelet: Well, I actually, I just pulled up an Instagram post that you made, which I think is such a great example of the way that you’ve been able to not only… Learn With Less® clearly has helped you sort of see the whole picture. But now that you’ve stepped into that part of yourself, now you get to help other people, as in your potential clients see that whole picture too.

And so you just recently put up a testimonial on Instagram, it reads, “my son is already talking so much more, he started putting two words together after attending only one class, Carly is awesome. She makes learning so fun for all of us.” So that’s the image on this social media post. And then you wrote in the description part of it, what you wrote was, “Messages like these make all the long days and late nights worthwhile. I love what I do. And it shows in my private Speech Language sessions, and my group ‘caregiver & me’ classes. You can read more about me and my philosophy on my website,” and so on, and so on.

But I think that… that right there, is such an interesting and amazing example of how that encapsulates all of it, right, you linked all of the things that your clients want and need and struggle with and are challenged by every single day… to all of the things that you offer, and the human and the kind of business that you are in both your private therapy sessions, as well as your group family enrichment style sessions, that all of your offerings help to solve this problem or help to share this knowledge. And I just, I wanted to bring that up. Because I think, just that, is such an interesting example of how you have grown to see yourself. Because you, you knew that that’s what you wanted. But.. until maybe just a month ago, even, you wouldn’t have been able to use the language to do it yourself. So, great work. Like, I’m just amazed by you. I love it.

Carly: What’s so interesting is I remember when I was putting my business ideas together thinking that, Oh, these classes are a great way to get private clients, but the opposite is actually happening. Yes. And that the private clients are coming more word of mouth. And I’m letting those clients know, whether it’s the child that I’m working with directly who is under three, or they have a younger baby at home, “by the way, I’m also leading these classes in the community. And I would love for you to join in, I think it would just be a great way for you to you know, get out and meet other families. And it’s not therapy, but it’s… I’m still there, and it still geared towards supporting your child’s development.” So yes, I that has been very interesting. I didn’t expect that.

Ayelet: Right? Because it is – it’s this, I like to call it cross pollination. It’s like a cross pollination effect, right. All of the licensees, all of the Learn With Less® facilitators do have some kind of background, educational, professional background in some field related to early child development. So again, you know, we have speech therapists, we have occupational therapists and physical therapists, we have many early childhood educators, we have social workers, we have all kinds of people with this sort of knowledge. And then all of those people come together under this philosophy and within this framework, and then we all disseminate and do the things that we do all over the world.

But you and your knowledge, I mean, you are a speech and language pathologist, primarily. But also now, you get to offer this other service to families that goes both ways. Like you said, the classes can develop word of mouth for your classes, and also for your therapy practice, and vice versa. Your therapy practice also gives those wonderful clients, you have now an additional way to serve them, other members of their family, other members of their community, and so on and so forth. And it just builds from there. So it’s, I mean, how incredible! that is so special.

And it positions you to create this huge social, human and reflexive impact for yourself and your own family in how you’re able to support your own income, but also how you’re able to serve your community. And as you said earlier, you’re now basically the go to person in your community for speech and language pathology, any kind of early intervention kind of stuff. And these classes, and obviously, if you have more people requesting that you do more virtual classes, you’ll do that, too. And I know you’re exploring teletherapy, as well, for your speech therapy practice.

Carly: Exactly – I’m exploring so many different avenues of this field. And you know, just being a business owner now, and leading the classes that… I never even knew was possible, I had this dream, but the reality of that dream is, it’s actually better. It’s better because part of the dream was never like, Oh, I want to drop my kids off and pick them up from school. By virtue of having more time, I now can drop my kids off at school and pick them up from school, which I was never able to do before, which fills all of my buckets, you know, all my buckets are filled. And it’s just such a good feeling!

Ayelet: In a way that they are not overwhelmingly full, like earlier.

Carly: Evenly full, right. Each one is is perfectly just balance, there’s just more balance. The other the other great thing, speaking of balance, is like balancing my schedule, where a lot of my private clients want afternoon times, and my mornings are very open, which is now full with leading classes, different days of the week, throughout the community. So just logistically, as well. It’s just working great.

Ayelet: That’s fantastic. I mean, that’s so great. I think a lot of therapists who are private practice owners tend to have that issue of like, how do I fill slots that are different times of the day without overwhelming myself at this other part of the day? And you now have… Wow, that’s awesome. That’s pretty cool. That’s way cool. So what would you say to somebody who knows that they want to do something like this, who knows that they need their bucket filled – all of their buckets. And regardless of whether it’s about having to shift into a totally full time, private practice, or even keeping their nine to five, or their day job, or whatever their life looks like, who knows that they’re like, not quite ready to commit, to fully commit, to fully step into that new identity, to that transition, but knows that this is something that they want to do for themselves? Like, what would you say to a person like that?

Carly: So, I would say that they should definitely sign up for the [Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification] course and take the modules and get the information and figure out how having that information can support them in the spot that they’re in at that moment. And then once they have completed the course, and they have the curriculum, finding a way that it fits in with their life and their schedule, even if it’s just like a pop up class once a month, you know, and that might be, that might work for them.

There’s so many different things that you can do with this program. It’s not, you know, it doesn’t have to be, oh, I’m doing classes every day and that’s all I do… Yeah, it’d be, you can do them in person, you can do them virtually, we have so many resources now for the virtual classes, that it made it very easy to just hop in and do that – that’s how I started it was virtually You know, there’s just so many options that even if you have a dream of what it might look like in the future, and you’re not there yet, still doing it in a small way is so rewarding and fulfilling. And it helps you take those baby steps to get to where you really want to be.

Ayelet: Yeah, awesome. I would be curious to hear also, because of course, we have the actual training program, these sort of modules that you move through, and also a community aspect – actually, calls that we do together, you know, an entire professional community hosted currently on a Facebook group, that allows people to discuss and share their own vision, and ask what has worked for them and not worked for them, and share freakout moments and all of those kinds of things. What are the pieces for you that have been most helpful, most fulfilling?

Carly: So the Learn With Less® community and the facilitators that are licensed and the facilitators that are in the program right now, we’re all like-minded. You know, we all believe in this philosophy. And because of that, I don’t know if any of us have met each other in person, but we all feel like we can go to each other with anything and having that community, especially for me who’s just getting started, having a community of people to reach out to who have done it before and who could give me advice has been invaluable, priceless. You know, you can’t… you can’t put a price tag on that.

Having you, Ayelet, as a resource has also been amazing. Like you’ve been such a mentor to me, and I’m so grateful for that now that I’m in this position that I’m in, in the program and leading the classes, you know, being able to give back is rewarding for me to help facilitators and other people who are in the program right now to understand, you know, how have I shifted some of the activities to make them COVID friendly? How have I set up my virtual classes? How did you market yourself, you know, what is your strategy for this? So I just being able to bounce ideas, you know, I wrote an email and before I sent it, you know, I, it’s just me, you know, who am I gonna ask for help? So I write an email, and I posted in the group or I send it to you, and then you get amazing feedback. And you just feel more confident in presenting yourself and presenting your information to the community, because we have each other to bounce those ideas off of.

Ayelet: Yeah, it’s awesome. It’s been really, really cool to see everybody work together like that – very collaborative.

Carly: Even you know, a lot of us are in similar fields. So we’ve created friendships outside of just running classes, but like, Rachel just had a baby! And we’re all so excited for her. And you know, so many life milestones that happened, that we’re so excited to share with each other. So that’s amazing.

Ayelet: Carly, where can people find you, and take your classes, and learn from you, and play with you?

Carly: So I am in Parkland, Florida, that small little speck in Broward County. I lead classes here in the community at Liberty Park, and I’m going to be offering lots of other classes coming up soon, you can read all about where I’m at and what I’m doing on my website, Kidnection.co and on Instagram, Kidnectionco, and Facebook, Kidnection LLC.

Ayelet: We’ll link to all of them in the show notes for the episode. So… thank you so much for all of your time today and for sharing with us your experiences and all of the incredible shifts you’ve made to your life and your business. We’re so happy for you!

Carly: I couldn’t have done it without you and this program. Really, really you thank you for having me, and looking forward to the future!

Ayelet: Me too.

The post Leading Caregiver & Baby Classes: From Therapist to Parent Educator, with Carly Dorfman appeared first on Learn With Less.

This week, I’m bringing back the very first episode of the Learn With Less® podcast. We’ve been going strong for 5 and a half years now, and whether you’re brand new to Learn With Less or you’ve been in our community for a while, I want to bring this information to the forefront of your mind again.

It’s so exciting to revisit content I created years ago, both because the heart of that content is still so very relevant today (which is of course why I’m sharing it with you again), and also because it helps me see how far I’ve come as a content creator, a parent educator, a business owner, and a human!

I remember sitting down to record this episode originally, after having led my “caregiver & me” classes for several years, and thinking that it was time to experiment with form. You’ll see that in these early episodes, the podcast was really very much an extension of our classes.

These days, I refer to the topic in today’s episode as related to third pillar of Learn With Less®, which is SING. If you don’t know yet, we have 4 pillars, which are play, talk, sing, and move! I’ll step aside for the actual episode in just a moment, but I do want to encourage you to explore all the resources on our website, which is now learnwithless.com. If you’re curious about our Learn With Less® “caregiver and me” classes, you are invited to head to learnwithless.com/democlass where you can sign up to watch a short pre-recorded version of that experience! I can’t wait to hear what you think.

** The information, songs, and ideas listed herein are protected by copyright. To license the materials used in the Learn With Less® curriculum, please apply here! **

Attend a free, pre-recorded snippet of a Learn With Less® “caregiver & me” class

Download our free Infant/Toddler Development Blueprint, outlining major areas of learning and development in the first three years of life, and how you can support them using our four pillars of play, talk, sing, & move

Learn With Less® Bundle: get our favorite infant and toddler development resources (save 70%)! Discover how to support & connect with your tiny human, without having to buy a single toy. Includes our bestselling books, our family music album, a full Learn With Less® “caregiver & me” class, and a caregiver handout outlining everything we covered so you can do it again and again at home!

Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program: Use your existing skills as an educator or therapist to serve families holistically with a high quality program that will provide lasting impact! Apply now to become a licensed facilitator Learn With Less®.

Learn With Less® “Caregiver & Me” Classes: the magic of Learn With Less® lies in the communal aspect of coming together with our resources, in community with other families. Join us for a virtual or in-person class led by a licensed facilitator near you!

Original version of the first Learn With Less® podcast episode, Why Sing?

How to make a homemade rain stick, our corresponding blog post

Hi, I’m Ayelet Marinovich, your host of the [Learn With Less®] podcast!

This is the very first episode of [Learn With Less®], a family enrichment program for caregivers and infants. Each week, we get together to sing a few songs, discuss some ideas for play, and outline some insight about infant and toddler development. The idea is this: whether you’re a parent or caregiver, working a job, caregiving full-time, whether your baby is following a typical progression of development or not, this is time for you to be together and to feel like you’re doing something good for and with your baby.

Please do follow your baby’s lead. If you can get through the entirety of the episode while sitting in one place together, that’s great! If not, keep it on in the background for as long as it’s entertaining, and you may find yourselves coming back to it. But please don’t force your child to sit through something that’s not being enjoyed – we’re trying to promote shared interactive experiences! You can always come back another time or another week!

I am a speech-language pathologist and I specialize in work with very young children, but this is not to be confused with “speech therapy.” This is, what I call, “family enrichment!” For more information, links to further reading, and to learn more about me, please visit my website.

Let’s start by using our bodies, tapping to the beat. As you become familiar with the songs, sing along and please sing them without me throughout your week! Don’t worry if you don’t consider yourself musical, or if rhythm doesn’t feel like it comes “naturally” to you – this is about the time you spend with your baby, doing something together! We’ll talk more about why it’s so beneficial later in the episode and in weeks to come.

Hello everybody, hello everybody, it’s nice to see you here today

Hello everybody, hello everybody, it’s nice to see you here

We can start by saying hello to the people who are with us.

Hello to Ayelet, hello to the singers, hello, hello, hello, hello

Hello to the baby, hello to the grown-ups, hello, hello, hello

Since I don’t know your name, I’ll help you sing the song and you can fill it in! Ready? Let’s practice once first.

Hello to (your baby’s name), hello to (your name), hello, hello, hello, hello

Hello everybody, hello everybody, hello, hello, hello

Ok, we’ll try it again, without me prompting you!

Hello to _____, hello to ______, hello, hello, hello, hello

Hello everybody, hello, everybody, hello, hello, hello!

Great job! That’s our “hello song,” and we’ll start with some version of it each time. This is a nice way to introduce the idea of “ritual” to your baby. I think we tend to get pretty caught up with the idea of babies becoming accustomed to routines, but I like to think of rituals as special things we can do within our families. More on that another time, though.

So, I’m going to be using a mix of “real” instruments, and things you can likely find in your home or can easily create out of items in your home. I will be starting a section of “DIY’s” on my website, and a Pinterest board for even more ideas.

This is a “rain stick” I made out of an empty round spice jar and and some dry rice. The lid stays on (with an additional layer of baby-proofing duct tape for peace of mind), but can be pushed or manipulated by baby quite easily.

Rain, rain, go away, Come again another day

Little Johnny wants to play, so rain, rain, go away.

If you already have a little Johnny at home, how lucky that this song is already personalized for you! If not, let’s take the necessary steps to do that!

Rain, rain, go away, come again another day

My sweet baby wants to play so rain, rain, go away

Ok, this time, you can add your baby’s name!

Rain, rain, go away, come again another day

Little _____ wants to play so rain, rain go away

Who else might want to play? I do!

Rain, rain, go away, come again another day

Ayelet wants to play so rain, rain go away

Why don’t you come up with another person who might want to play (yourself, for instance)

Rain, rain, go away, come again another day

_______ wants to play so rain, rain go away

You know, on second thought, I think it might be fun to go outside and play IN the rain, as long as we’re warm and cozy enough!

Rain, rain, stay all day, come again throughout the day

Baby and I want to play so rain, rain, stay all day!

Since this is sort of a lulling tune – slow and repetitive, it feels nice to hum it or make it into a lullaby. Let’s try taking out the words and just humming the melody.

Mmmmm, mmmmmm, mmmmm, mmmmmm

Mmmmmm, mmmmmm, mmmm, mmmm

Now, this is, of course, a nursery rhyme that I’ve put to a tune – using just the rhythm and simply chanting the rhyme might be appealing for some of you out there, and that’s just fine, too. In fact, alternating rhythmic and melodic “verses” is a nice way to highlight different parts of “musical experience” for your baby

Rain, rain, go away come again another day

My sweet baby wants to play so rain, rain, go away

Ok, speaking of rhythm, let’s have a little fun. I love using real drums because I love the natural materials, but kitchen pots bowls, and pans, are also fantastically effective instruments (and readily available!) – feel free to take yours out now!

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck one (1)

The mouse ran down, hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck two (1, 2)

The mouse said, “woo hoo!!”

Hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck three (1, 2, 3)

The mouse said, “wheeeee!!”

Hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck four (1, 2, 3, 4)

The mouse said, “let’s do more!”

Hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck five (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

The mouse said, “let’s jive!”

Hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck six (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

The mouse said, “oh, fiddlesticks!”

Hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck seven (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

The mouse said, “let’s go to 11!”

Hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck eight (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

The mouse said, “wow! This is great!”

Hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck nine (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

The mouse said, “This is fine!”

Hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck ten (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

The mouse said, “let’s do it all again!”

Hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck eleven (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

The mouse said, “I think I should have stopped at 7!”

Hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

Hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock

The clock struck twelve (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)

The mouse said, “This is one we’re gonna shelve”

Hickory dickory dock

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock!

Ooh! That’s fun.

Ok, I wanted to take a moment and just speak about why we as parents and caregivers are always hearing people say things like, “oh, play music for your baby,” “sing to your baby!” We hear, “it’s important and useful to expose your baby to music and rhythms and songs…” but WHY?

Let’s start with the basics – and look at some of the inextricable links between music and speech. First, both use “pitch” – in music, we sing a melody, and in speech, we use variations in our intonation (for instance, when we ask a question, our pitch rises). Second, both have a rhythmic quality. Music is grouped into what we call “phrases” by meter and tempo. There are rhythmic rules that govern a song, which then might help to determine what genre of music it is. In speech, we use phrases as well, in a way. Just think about how we use punctuation, or pauses either — for effect, or simply to mark the end of a sentence.

So, some of the essential components of both music and speech are actually very similar! When we expose our children to the stories and music of our cultures from a very early age, we are helping them to develop musical intelligence, but also primary communication skills!

There’s a term that is often used in early learning and child development, called “joint attention” – this is essentially the shared attention between you and your child upon another “thing” – an object or event. It’s not merely that you are both looking at the same thing, but it’s that you’re both using words, gestures, gaze, or other non-verbal communication to understand that you’re both interested in the same object or event. This is a crucial piece of communication (and something that usually happens sometime in the later part of the first year of life), and also it’s crucial to the act of being musical in a group.

When we sing to our young children, we are modeling:

• Vocabulary and phrasing patterns or grammatical structures (sentences, questions / commands / statements)
• Expressions of feelings and thoughts (through our physical actions, words, tone of voice, and facial expressions)
• Attention and listening skills – hey, you’re not just entertaining your child! You’re interacting uninterruptedly with a focus! Think about how rare this kind of interaction is becoming in the age of technology!

So, good work!

The post Why Sing with Infants and Toddlers? appeared first on Learn With Less.

In this episode of the Learn With Less® podcast, Ayelet sits down with special educator, music educator, parent educator, speech therapist, and Learn With Less® facilitator, Sara Moreno of Mi Casa Abierta. Sara has been instrumental in the community and growth of the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program, and has been utilizing resources from Learn With Less® for the last several years. Sara has also taken on the task of translating and interpreting all the materials (lesson plans and caregiver handouts) for our “caregiver & me” programs into Spanish so that we can more inclusively and responsibly serve families from both multilingual (Spanish, English) and monolingual (Spanish) households.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Sara’s educational and professional background, and what brought her to the work she’s doing today
• How Sara found the confidence to serve families more holistically, both in her own community in San Salvador, and beyond
• Why the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program has been so valuable and transformational both for her practice, and in her personal life
• The various new avenues she has explored due to her experience with the Learn With Less® program
• Why the curriculum transcends culture and parenting philosophy, and is universally accessible to families who simply want more tools to support and connect with their young children

Learn With Less® podcast episode: Educating Parents to be Their Child’s First Teacher, with Rachel Kammeyer

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How to Impact Your Community With Parent Education and Parent Coaching Skills, with Laurel Smith

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How Lesley Took Her Existing Skills as an Educator, and Started Serving Infant/Toddler Families In a Holistic, Meaningful Way

Learn With Less® podcast episode: How to Use Your Skills as an Educator or Therapist to Serve Families Holistically as a Parent Educator, with Allie Glazer

Learn With Less® Bundle: get our favorite infant and toddler development resources (save 70%)! Discover how to support & connect with your tiny human, without having to buy a single toy.

Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program: Use your existing skills as an educator or therapist to serve families holistically with a high quality program that will provide lasting impact! Apply now to become a licensed facilitator Learn With Less®.

Learn With Less® “Caregiver & Me” Classes: the magic of Learn With Less® lies in the communal aspect of coming together with our resources, in community with other families. Join us for a virtual or in-person class led by a licensed facilitator near you!

Sara: Instagram / Facebook 

Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest

Ayelet: Welcome, Sara, officially, to this conversation, I wanted to just chat with you today, because you have been such a big part of the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training and Certification Program over the last year plus… in so many ways, and I want to, number one, just take a moment to thank you for, for being part of it. And it’s such a pleasure to to know you to be in community with you and to have you be part of this program and how it’s grown, and all of the benefits that you’ve added to it. So I wanted to really share that with our larger community and make sure that you have a voice here and that we want to just amplify what you’re doing. So can you just give a little bit of a background about you know, who you are, your professional, educational experiences, where you are in the world? And yeah, let’s start there!

Sara: I’m so happy to be here. And I’m so glad to be part of this program. And well, my name is Sara Moreno, I’m from El Salvador. I’m a special educator, but I have a lot of interests in so many areas, as you know. I’ve been studying some certifications in music education, and early music stimulation. And also in well, I did Learn With Less®, and also I have a master’s in speech language therapy. So yeah, that’s like what I’ve been doing. I’m a violin teacher. And I also give music communication and all that stuff in national, like a music institute here. That’s what I’m doing. And also I have particular clients in speech therapy, that’s what I’m actually doing. And also, I’m the founder of Mi Casa Abierta. That’s a space where I give parents and educators tools to be with their child and use music in that process of seeing them grow.

Ayelet: Yes, so many amazing, amazing experiences. And I think I mean, it’s kind of hard to believe that you do all of those things, and that you have all of those capabilities, because you’ve also done such a beautiful job of bringing together all of your interests, all of your skills, all of the things that make you thrive and light up. And you’ve created this very robust and very sort of diverse career path for yourself, that’s part traditional employment and part entrepreneurship and a lot of experimentation. Yeah, that’s something just I think that’s such a neat part of who you are, and and what has drawn me to you and to work with you. It’s just been such a pleasure.

So I want to ask you a little bit about what drew you to Learn With Less®, and the Learn With Less® program, and in general, just the brand, the podcast, the books, all of those kinds of things… For you. What was it that sort of drew you in? And how did you find us because I love knowing that there are people out there from all over the world, right? I think for me, it’s very easy to speak to, especially people in the United States, because that’s where I live currently, but also, say, specifically in Europe, because that was where I lived when I started this work. But I know and you know, and many people know that so much of what we talk about in the Learn With Less® curriculum, and all of the things that we do is applicable to all over the world. So I’d love to hear your specific perspective on all that.

Sara: Yeah, I found you on Instagram. I really love Instagram. And a lot of my resources come from there. And I found you because I was looking for SLP s. And I was like starting to study in that area. And here in my country, you can study the be an SLP [speech-language pathologist]. So you have to look outside. Here, the special educators are the ones that take that job. So I started looking for people that I felt like had an approach similar to what I already knew. So I really loved that you were using like not having to buy anything because that was something that I was feeling like I was not enough and maybe it was not that I was not enough but that I didn’t have all the things that some speech, some SLPs have.

So when I realized that I didn’t need anything, actually anything… And that I could use anything I had and that families had… it was like a new world. And… it was like, I really love to find you because I, you know, you gave me like the confidence to use what I knew and to feel like an SLP. That was something that was very hard for me because that’s not my main career! Yeah, that was the way I found you. And then I actually give like groups of music initiation, like, like…

Ayelet: Like a music enrichment class?

Sara: Yeah, the first steps in music for some kids. Yeah, I also believe that music is connected to all development areas. So I was so happy to find you, because I call you what you taught me to those music groups and also for my individual SLP work.

Ayelet: Right. Because as if you’ve been listening to the Learn With Less® podcast or following Learn With Less® for any measure of time, you know that our four pillars are play, talk, sing, and move. So music is a big component of what we do, we have some nod to music and all of our podcast episodes and books, you know, Understanding Your Baby and Understanding Your Toddler, we encourage families to use music in so many different ways. And then, of course, in our Learn With Less® “caregiver and me” classes that we hold throughout the world with licensed facilitators.

You know, music is a big part of what we do and how we encourage families to be with their children. So I guess that’s a good segue into the program itself. And I think it would be interesting to hear, because you already were leading classes, right, you had your own curriculum that you were developing. So what then was the impetus for you to also invest your time and your energy and financials into a program that would give you something different. Like, for you, what was the benefit and value of that?

Sara: I feel like, first of all, you can learn from so much things, sometimes journey to look like for something that is specific, just when you learn it, you know how to connect it. And that’s like a philosophy I have. But also, I think that the thing that made me feel like a stronger connection was the thing of buying stuff and not having to. You know, and before being in the program, I was the one, the teacher that goes to any store, and starts to look for things for therapy, or for classes, or for whatever, even when I didn’t have the plan, you know, I went and “oh these could be useful someday. And these too, and this could be useful too!” And actually, now I understand that it doesn’t work like that, because you get like so frustrated that you will never have materials for everything. But you can use anything so that I don’t know how to explain that.

Ayelet: Yeah! That was, I mean, it is the reframe right, you have to adjust your own perspective. Because I think it’s so interesting, Sara, how you say that. Because I think a lot of professionals feel like that, right? I remember being a speech-language pathologist and at least the first five years or more of my career and going to the dollar store or going to garage sale or going to the toy store or watching someone on Instagram who’s some big, you know, influencer in the early intervention or therapy space who’s talking about how great this toy or this activity is. And it’s like, yes, that’s wonderful. But that’s not the point! But I agree, it’s, it’s how we come into our professional journey thinking, Okay, it’s the tool that’s going to be effective to work with families. And on the other side, I think as a parent, my own self, when I became a mom, I felt that, too! This pressure to have the latest and greatest and best and most developmentally enriching toys. But I knew also that like, Oh, my gosh, this is not necessary.

And the more I met with families, and the more I became more comfortable in my own skin, as a mom, I was seeing how much we could do with just the basics. And for me, I was living in a new country when I had a baby. So I didn’t have all of my therapy materials, for instance, in the garage, or in an office or somewhere. So I was starting from scratch, which actually was so good for me! And so I would maybe go down the street to the local thrift store and find some very basic kinds of things, and then show my friends how you could use this in so many different ways. But over time, even those toys that I would get became less important. And it was much more about the empty milk carton or the paper towel roll that I actually just happened to have around that I would hand my baby and he would love it and play with it. And I was like, oh, let’s sing about it. Let’s add more language around it. Let’s move and do fun things with it, right? Let’s play with it. That was literally how Learn With Less® grew up.

Sara: You know, it was funny that at the beginning when my approach like my mindset changed, you don’t have to buy things. It was so interesting because parents came sometimes and asked me what did they have to buy? And they asked me if I could buy the things that we use in therapy. So I explained I started like to ask them to bring me the things that they had. For example, even I know that my kids, my kids, they’re not my kids. But my clients, I know that they had toys. And I was not like get rid of the toys… It was like, bring it bring the toys that they love! I, in the therapy, I improvised. And I, I taught them like you can do this, and this and this, and you don’t need to buy anything. So I started, like, including them in therapy and tell them to do what you do in Learn With Less® groups, like give them the model, and then ask them to practice in front of me to make them feel comfortable and confident that they could do that.

And also, I wanted to mention in this line that when you have like this mindset that you have to buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, it affects your personal life, because it affects your financial Yeah. And it affects also, for example, we want to have a not minimalist life, but less stuff. And you want to do that. And you want to have an organized life in the inside and in the outside in your home. And you have a therapy room in your home, and you have a lot of material that interferes with your personal life. So it’s something that was amazing for me. The other thing that I don’t want to stop mentioning is that for me, before the program, it was like hard to give advice to the to the moms and dads because I’m not a mom, and understanding that I don’t have to be a mom to give great tools and to help, really help them. It was amazing, because it’s a big part of the program telling us like, you don’t have to be that to help. So yeah, that that was another thing that made me feel like a big connection with with the program and made me value a lot of the information.

Ayelet: Right. It’s not just about having access to this specific curriculum, it’s a whole mindset shift, and then working through your own confidence and ability, your own self concept as a facilitator and the person in your community who can be a resource.

Sara: Yeah. And I think that we’re the people that is like thinking about getting in or not, you know, they have to know that this is not about if you’re gonna give these classes if you’re gonna lead “mommy and me” sessions, it’s not about that! Awesome if you do, but you don’t need to like enter thinking about this, because this can enrich your practice in so many ways. Even if you’re just a mom, like because you can connect this with anything, anything you’ll learn can be connected with what you already do. That’s amazing.

Ayelet: I would love to hear you expand on that. Because obviously, a lot of the time when someone applies to the program, their end goal is to have this ability to offer these family enrichment classes, right. That’s that’s the whole point to them. But as you say, and many of our other facilitators have expressed that there’s so much more to the program than just that end goal. And in fact, people have even said, like, I got the value of this entire program and all of the mindset shifts and building my own confidence and learning about marketing and things like that. Even if I never had even taught one Learn With Less® class, like I got my money’s worth. So I would love to hear more from you about like, can you speak to some of those other pieces? Obviously, there’s the end goal of being able to utilize the Learn With Less® program, but what are some other ways that this program has impacted you in your life?

Sara: Yeah, as I said, using other materials, like boxes, and blankets, pillows, and books, magazines, all those things, the use of that was amazing. Like it opens your eyes to the use of all these things, and not just for giving the sessions. You know, also, if you are in the therapy room, you can use it for a lot of goals. And also, if you’re in music lessons, you can make songs from that you can use it as an instrument. You can use it to do a lot of activities. If you’re a mom, you can use it just for the time that you’re spending with your child. So I’m talking about the things I do, but I’m so sure that also if you are an occupational therapist, or if you are a physical therapy, or even you are giving, like, psychological sessions, you can help in play therapy, art therapy. I’m also studying art therapy. Yeah, so I can’t tell you how amazing it’s it’s been not having to buy so much art materials because I can use even the fruit! I can paint with fruit! I can do the card of the cereal, it’s so amazing because in all the areas you can use it, that’s one thing.

The other is like, if you work not just with kids, but also with parents or even with other professionals, it’s amazing because you’ll learn how to give them like guidance and how to, how some things that maybe in their areas are going to be helpful. Also, I want to mention that I don’t know how the schools in other parts of the world are. But here, you don’t always have the access to all our materials, because the school can’t buy the materials. So if you want materials, as a teacher, you must buy them. But in this program, you’ll learn how to use anything, so you don’t have to. And also you can ask kids to bring stuff because they won’t have to buy anything. Those things are things that they have at home. So I really love that. I think that those are the major things. Also, it helps you see like a holistic approach! You see that “sing” is connected with “play,” “move,” and “talk.” And “talk” is connected with “play” and “move.” It’s everything connected. And it helps you to see that having these four pillars in mind, helps you see the child as one thing, not just like this area talk, let’s just talk, no! Talk and move and…

Ayelet: Right, because as you were saying, like each of those pillars, you can bring in and encourage all different areas of development, right. So if you’re using some part of class, like a Learn With Less® class that is dedicated to singing or music, you can see how that connects to supporting cognitive development, supporting communication development, supporting motor and sensory development, supporting social and emotional development. So all of those things are connected, as you said, Sara, and I love hearing that that is a value for you. Because for me, obviously, that’s a big part of how this was all created and formulated is really helping both families and professionals feel that interrelatedness and the holistic nature of early, early development in those first three years.

Sara: Also, in that line, you know, it’s not like the mind that changes because – it’s the practice, too! Because you have like the holistic approach in your mind, but then you learn how to plan to make this go to practice. And I love to have the four pillars, for example, you can take the four pillars and say, plan your therapy, and then in the month, reveal them and say, Okay, I feel like I wasn’t using the mood that much. So I’m gonna start using a little bit more than move, oh, this month, I didn’t use this one. So I’m gonna start using this more, and it helps you like to play with balance

Ayelet: for your own self as the professional, it’s that self reflection. That’s really great to hear. Thank you for sharing that. I remember back in the beginning, when you and I first spoke about, you know, you coming and joining in the program, you mentioned how the kinds of programs that are available in San Salvador, where you live, which is a large city with very diverse set of people socio economically, and you know, in all different ways, right? So I remember you mentioning that there were things like parent and child classes available that were more things like specifically in like a Waldorf philosophy or Montessori type classes.

I mean, obviously, we’ve touched upon this a little bit in general about how with Learn With Less®, you don’t need these specific materials, as you might in a different kind of philosophy types of classes. But I’m so curious to hear a little bit more about and obviously like that, Learn With Less®, again, you’re just using materials that the family already has for you, in your experience, both as a professional delivering these classes, and also the kinds of feedback that you receive from families. What was the response? What did people have to say? How did they feel about a program that focused on something very different?

Sara: Yeah. I love the question, because I think that sometimes it goes like underwater, you know, and yeah, you don’t realize about it. But I found that the parents feel more confident. They also like, learn to see the progress. Oh my God, that’s a very special thing in the program because you have to learn to see how kids responds to the activities in you have to learn how to name it and to affirm it and To given them the motivation to continue doing that, doing more of that. And the parents learn to do that, too. It’s not just me, they also do it and I receive messages of them like, these are the things that they did this week. There’s this, this, this this and they learn to do that. And the other thing that I love in I use a lot is the jest end.

Ayelet: Yes. And right, like we talked about in improv comedy, right. Can you explain it a little bit?

Sara: The “yes, and” is like a principal in the in, in the theater? Right?

Ayelet: Yeah, improvisational theater.

Sara: Yeah, yeah. And it’s awesome. Because it’s that one person says something or does something, and the other person has to affirm that thing that the other person did, and like to build from that, and expanded, it’s so awesome, because it really works in therapy, when a child is therapy, I mean, homerun in everything in any relationship. Yeah, and also be with your friends and everyone. When someone says something, Yes, you did. Blah, blah, blah. What if we do blah, blah, blah. It’s like, amazing how this works. And parents learn to do this. So they don’t have to be like, so worried about what activities to do? Because they just go with the child. And so, with their initiative…

Ayelet: Yes. Okay. So we can go in a couple different directions from here, because I was just a whole other settlement. So we’ll come back to this piece. But I want to talk just for a second to about how, again, I remember for you, in the beginning, you were thinking, well, not only is this really important for those families who can say afford a class that is like Montessori or those families who like know about these kinds of philosophies, which in general, I mean, let’s face it are often families who have means or access financially. That was tackling Yeah. Tell us more about how that played into your decision to join us.

Sara: I’m sorry that I get so excited. But it’s awesome because it’s like a cheaper approach to use. And it can sound weird because the families can access to that easier. And if you want to do I don’t know, like something as volunteer or something like that is easier because you are not using more money or using more resources to help families. So I think that it’s so awesome. Also that, you know, all these approaches that you mentioned, like Montessori, Waldorf, Gymboree, and a lot of those are so awesome. In for example, Montessori was created not just not for high class people, right, was great for everyone. And actually, everyone you know, but it has taken another like path, and it has gone to a specific population, and not all the people can afford that.

So I will love that people can access to this in a better price or sometimes even without having to pay and also that they can use a home. They don’t have to buy the materials that they say this other approach have to use, like wood and stuff. You know, you don’t have to buy that. So yeah, that that one thing that I really like. And I also think that it’s very attractive for organizations and foundations, foundations. Yeah, yeah. Because you can go to any area and help families letting them learn to because you know, we’re talking not just about kids education, we are also talking about parents and teachers education, in some places in this country. And I know that in every country, there’s people that wants to help their child but can’t because they don’t know how not just because they don’t have the resources but because they don’t know how. And if you go to a place you’re not given just like social help. You’re also like teaching and helping them build from what you give them. So yeah, that’s an amazing part of the program.

Ayelet: I’m curious to hear your perspective. Sorry about because I think a lot of times with this specific parenting philosophy, it centers one culture or one perspective, Western culture, for instance, right, but I’m very curious to hear like because culturally the family structure or the way that people behave in a family unit parenting culture and the perspective of for instance, el salvadorian parents versus a parent in New York City. Or Idaho or London or Cairo? Like is very different. Right? So how is it that this kind of structure works in El Salvador? Like, have you found that you had to adjust certain things from the classes? What What does that look like for you?

Sara: Yeah, I love because the classes can, I think that the development of the child is almost the same university, right? In any part of the world, you can have like the structure clear, but change what is inside. And I, for example, doing the translations. So the things that I had to adapt was music…

Ayelet: Like the specific songs for instance, right? Yeah, for example…

Sara: You can sing! Well, you can see anything in here we have something that works for a specific the same, and that people will feel comfortable doing because it’s not just about our let’s use national stuff, it’s about those things are national, because they connect with people here, not just because we are proud of being Salvadorian – that I am! – but also that because those things are here, because they connect with us. So music, also the use of some words, during the translation, it was interesting, too, that I was like, I have doubts to use this word or that word. But when I was talking with you, you said like, you can write it down as you will use it, and people can feel free to change it themselves when they need to. Right, that flexibility is awesome. Also, the use of materials, you know, if you don’t have to buy a specific type of cereal!

Ayelet: Right. As the facilitator, you don’t have to bring Rice Krispies box, right? It can be whatever.

Sara: It can be whatever. And also, if you’re going to paint with some fruit, you can use fruits that are in your country. Yes, it’s so easy, so simple, because the program gives you that flexibility. And also, I have to mention in the pandemic, I had to do my demo class online. And it really weren’t getting the work done. I did it with people in Ecuador. I also had people I think that Mexico I remember on Dora, yeah, Honduras, but it was amazing. And people here in El Salvador to It was awesome, because it worked in I call us the songs that we all we all understood and we all felt connected with. So yeah, I think that that those are the things but not just that you have to use these songs, or you have to do this the stuff you learn to adapt in. Yeah!

Ayelet: It’s like unstructured structure.

Sara: Yeah. Yeah. And as we said before, it’s like a change of mindset. So you change your mindset, you you’re able to adapt it to any circumstance and resource.

Ayelet: Yeah, I also wanted to go back and say, because we were talking about cereal boxes, it doesn’t have to be a cereal box, because not everybody in the world. It can be a cardboard box.

Sara: Yeah, whatever. And it was funny because some some words, I had to look for it. When I was writing the translation, I had to look for some things and see the picture and say like, what is the word is that you will never use that right? Why will I have to read it there if people…

Ayelet: Not even, right? And again, all of the all of the materials, it always says these are suggested something like this, right? So yeah, so you and I would talk about – because actually, I want to just make it very clear to people, Sara is the one of our facilitators who has been responsible for actually translating all of the activity plans, all of the parent handouts, everything that we have created into the Spanish language so that we have now not only for Sara, but for any one of our facilitators who does speak Spanish and would like to offer this program in another language to serve families whose primary language is Spanish or whose home language is Spanish or that they would like to even have just the handout in Spanish to refer to maybe for a family member or another caregiver.

So not only do we have those additional handout, kind of things that go home with parents for the learn with us program that have been translated, but also the entire program of the lesson plan. Each of those are now translated into Spanish. So anyone who is a facilitator who actually speaks Spanish and would like to serve families who also speak Spanish this can be done now in Spanish. So this is the first of many, many languages that we would like to do this for and Sarah, just to name this incredible feat that you have completed. You did all of that and I just I’m so grateful to you and again, like what you said about how you know because Salvadorian Spanish is different from Spanish in Mexico and it’s different from Spanish in Spain, right? So we know that there is flexibility. And you know, I think one of the things that you felt like, Oh, well, that’s okay. Like if I put the word “coche” for car, knowing that some families will say, “carro,” depending on where they are, it’s okay. And that the knowledge is that that facilitator who’s serving families in Spanish will know which one to use, and we can always adapt and shift as needed.

Sara: Yes. And I was thinking right now that sometimes when when you study and you’re preparing to give some specific service, your teachers tell you that you have to do a B, C, like specific steps and specific words. And when you go there, and you have to, that’s not how it works. And, and yeah, and that’s amazing, because, in this approach, you can make it your own way. It’s not only that you have to do it, like the way that your country does that, but also the way that you as a facilitator feel comfortable. Yeah, and you also it’s like a chain, a chain reaction, yeah, jewelry to do it that way. And you say, Okay, I don’t have to do it, as I gel, it does it. So I will do it my way. And parents say, I don’t have to do it the way Sara does it. So I can do it my way. And child’s calm and say, Oh, I don’t have to do it. The way Sara and my parents do that. So I will do it my own way. And they roll in that way. And they will teach it to the people they are with when they are older.

Ayelet: It is it’s that chain reaction that we’re all learning. And I mean, this is a big part of the Learn With Less philosophy, the Learn With Less program is is that lack of hierarchy, right? Like even for me, when I’m training everyone or the coaches that are training, we were all in the same boat, we’re all learning from each other. And then those Learn With Less facilitators who’ve been certified and out there doing what they’ve been doing, they then are very open and sharing of what’s working or not working for them. And we all problem solve. And it’s very useful to have also people who are, say, special educators like yourself, speech language pathologists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, early childhood educators, social workers, there’s so much variety and diversity within all of our experiences, that everyone also comes to it from a different place. But it is very much by design that what we are sharing with each other, and then what each of us is sharing with the families that we serve in each class is led by the group that is literally present in that moment. So it’s not like one person, as in you, the facilitator who’s teaching everybody how to do this one new thing, it’s everybody figuring it out together and learning from each other all the time.

Sara: Yeah, it’s funny, because you have the running of the session, when you’re doing it, and you say, okay, maybe I will take less time because of the activities that I have today. But when you go there times, just flies and because you join not just doing what the plan says that you have to do, you’re also doing what parents propose. And then and also what child’s indicate they want in their own way. So the session goes like, it’s an interesting game, an open ended session, you know, it’s it’s very interested in having that in mind also helps so much with confidence, and it helps you just like, okay, we have to move, we have to know you don’t have to, you can stay there in the child’s are learning from what you’re doing. So continue where you are.

Ayelet: Right? And there’s always ways to integrate the other pieces into that specific activity, right. Like you said, if you’re finding that everyone is really enjoying these materials, and it’s already been 20 minutes, you can just continue with those materials and move into maybe you were in the same section. And now we can keep doing the same thing, but maybe Okay, how could we do this? If we’re just talking and and integrating more movement? What can we do here with the same materials and continuing on with with what’s being enjoyed in that way? So yeah, I love that. It’s true. It is, as we said, it’s an unstructured structure. There’s so much flexibility within the lesson plan, but it is recognizable still. Yes!

Sara: And also in terms of approaches that we were talking about that before. So just like tell you what to do, and we do what materials maybe to do it. But gear is awesome because you learn how to give the explanation about what what you did. They was important, right? And that’s amazing because you don’t want parents to do things just because you say you have to do and parents that know what they are doing. And and it’s not like magic tools or something like that you’re not given them something magic that if you would do it like this, and that will work not you’re giving them science. Yeah, you’re telling them why that is important. And why do they have to do and also when they know why they’re doing that the brain says like, Oh, so I can do this. Another thing. And this Another thing is that like to see the progress in the child’s easier.

Ayelet: I wonder if you have any specific examples in your head of that when they realize like, Oh, that’s what I just did, or that’s even what I’ve already been doing.

Sara: One example is when Barla talk to us that for the child to have the words and to expand like the vocabulary and to make structures in their head about what they doing. And when you explain that to the parents, they are able to do it, actually, they sometimes do it naturally, right. But when you know that these words for something, you start doing it more or more intentional, and you start to take their little moments and make them special and useful. Also, I was thinking about the joint attention is something that parents, they do it naturally. But when they know that these exist, and it’s part of the development, they start doing more stuff and start learning also that they just don’t have to take their child to see what they see. But they can join to the things that the child is paying attention. So I think that those two are examples of things that I’ve seen in in the room in this room. But also that parents have told me that they’re doing more and sometimes, for example, if the kid is playing with soil, and so I don’t know, like, say 123 and then throws…

Ayelet: The dirt all over the place. Yeah.

Sara: Yeah. So when the parent know that to say what they’re doing works, they do it. And then the other day that the kid is playing with toil, the kid starts using the words that the parent were using when he was playing. So I think that it’s it’s so awesome how this work and knowing that this is not magic, it’s just like the brain working in some way.

Ayelet: I love how you said that. That’s great. You’ve said so much around this topic already. But I’d love to just hear from you or perspective also about the value for parents and caregivers that are coming to these classes, like how do you define that both for yourself and your own mind? And also, how have you come? Because we do of course, as you very well know, a lot of work around this in the program to help professionals market their classes and to help share that value with families that they hope will come and attend their classes. So for you How do you define the value for parents and caregivers who want to join you in this experience of your Learn With Less class?

Sara: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is the confidence that’s like the greatest value because especially when people is like foreign for the first time, they feel so afraid of so many things. So this gives them like the confidence know that some things happen naturally. And the other things that does happen naturally, you can learn and do it also to connect what they do instinctively with the things that they’re learning. And they are taken years also all the things that we talked, I think that are related with the parenting work. And yeah, for example, the materials, especially a mom, when she just gave birth, she The last thing she wants to do is leave her baby and go to jump in and go and buy a lot of things. The thing that she wants to do is be with her baby. And this program gives her the opportunity that she won’t need anything he can be with her child and use whatever she has at home. Especially when she’s tired to Yes, yeah. He has you know about so valuable to give them that in total them. You don’t have to worry if you don’t have a specific toys because you have your home and you have your device and you have your hands and the other value is that they can when they’re looking for a location for their kids.

They can look for what they want and they are able to see when there’s freedom for the child or when there’s not in a school, and to find like, the best place to do that, or to do it themselves at home, you know, the benefit is not just like, Oh, I can do this. But also you have the tools. And here are some extra tools. If you didn’t know about this, there’s the question that I really love in the program. And it is, have you ever done these that activity? Have you ever done this, like the giant attention? And the answer is yes, I actually did it. And the other question is, where or when, in what moments? Can you do it more? Yeah. And so it’s this connection is so so rich, that those are some of the benefits. And I know that there’s a lot more because as we said that we are everyone so different. Also people get so different things from the program. We will I think that not all parents get the same definitely.

Yeah, no other thing that I found with the parents I work is that some parents come here being so expressive and telling me everything, but others are like, like shy, and they are like maybe at the beginning, like afraid to tell me that things because they think that I know a lot. And they don’t. But actually when when I start using this things, they start saying like they can communicate with me that if they communicate with me, the work will be better. So given them the possibility to talk and to say, Yes, I’ve done these in these situations in I think that I can do it more in these other situations, or I have these and I don’t know how to use it, you know that the possibility to talk, it’s so amazing. And you don’t have it always end. Other thing is that the parent is there, right? So they’re not just helping the child’s role, but they’re going hand in hand with them. They’re growing together and seeing and being present in the process, not just the things that they’re learning, but also the connection that they can have that makes it.

Ayelet: Yes, so amazing. Well, I also think, because I actually I just opened up our like spreadsheet about the feedback that you’ve gotten. And I wanted to touch upon this piece, because a few of your responses from families mentioned, I really liked when we talk about our highs and lows and make comments together in the group. And this is actually a piece that we haven’t even touched on that is such a value to families of the program. But I wanted to bring it up because literally one of your respondents, one of your participants said that that was something that they loved about the class is that community peace of being in community with other families, for the parents, and for the children? Can you talk a little bit about that, especially you did a lot of this in the pandemic, right virtually. And parents still found that piece of being together and the value of community was so strong and so enriching. So I would love to hear a little bit more about that from you.

Sara: I think that parenting was never meant to be a solo thing. It was always created to be as a community. And we have lost that in the in, in the contemporary world. So I think that when parents face this and realize the possibility of talking without being judged that they find that it’s not just what they do with their childhood that is important, but also what they feel and what they need. And also when they do things great to you know, to share it with other people and help others because helping others is a part of the human being. And when parents are able to help another person that is in the same way that they are they also grow and feel better. You know, this emotional area is so important. And it’s not just the kids that connect with each other because sometimes parents go to a group thinking for my child to talk with other kids.

But it’s so important that parents connect with other parents. You know, I think that it’s because being with other parents helped them to communicate without restriction. Sometimes parents are so careful when they share with other person that it’s no parent or when they go to a home they are like apologizing a lot or when people come home. They apologizing for the tie, so and for anything that happens, you know, but when you’re with other parents, they can feel completely free and understand that what they’re going through is normal. And that if they need the help they can ask it to, and that it’s normal to have a hard time doing some things. And yeah, I know that the benefit of being in community is not just that you can see other people and talk with other people, but also that you can realize a lot of things about yourself and help others that we do naturally.

Ayelet: Sharing the load in some ways. Yeah, yeah.

Sara: I want to mention that that review is for the first time I did a class. Yes. So people didn’t know parents didn’t know the other parents that were in the session.

Ayelet: They were all strangers. Yes.

Sara: Yeah. They were all strangers. And they all felt comfortable to chair I now I remember that they told us about to two families have two kids sick. And they told the group that and been there and you know, and it was not receiving advice, right? That was so awesome. Because it was not, I didn’t tell them what to do, because of their kids being sick. And other parents didn’t tell them what to do. And not to have their child sick, just like to express that and not having to be strong. Right? Just to be here for them was awesome. And it’s amazing to think about that they were all strangers.

Ayelet: And and it wasn’t even enough in a room together. It was in a Zoom Room, literally in a room online in the internet world. Yeah, I don’t remember. I mean, I would love to know from you to like, what do you think is the reason why they were able to do that? Like, what about the class about you as a facilitator about the structure of it all about how you shared what would happen in the class, even before leading it? Like all of those are the ways that we teach how to create that environment and Learn With Less? But how did you create that?

Sara: I think that I think that first of all, receiving them happy, and being happy to be with them and being genuine to say that you are happy to have them there. Also, the other thing that maybe sounds crazy, is in the Hello song, do you say hello to the parents too, because the session is not just for the kids. So I think that that also says, Oh, so I’m supposed to participate and to have fun too, because when you’re playing with a kid, and you’re not having fun, you know, just been part of our life, to make the play locked into play, yeah. And also given them the permission to participate in the level they want to participate. Not saying like you have to do this, you have to do that. No, just letting them be the person they are because their child doesn’t need another person, they need them as the person they are giving them the permission to do that. Also, given the space, like the name and say it out loud, like you can say anything when you want it. And if you don’t feel comfortable, you can do this or that. Or this is the moment to say our highs and lows. And you know, it was not like this just happened. No, you gave them the space and you told them that that was the time to do that.

But you know, like giving them that attention, like one on one. I think that also helps you have to affirm that what they were doing was amazing. For example, one thing that I love is when for example, the kid is moving a checker in your name, oh, you’re judging the checker and you’re moving it, they’re making music. And when the parent takes another thing without you telling them you can also name that. And when you named what the parent is doing, the parent says, Oh, I’m doing this great. Right? Yes. So I like the details. And another thing I remember now is I sent like three emails. Yep. And those emails were powerful because they had the information of the materials that were things that they had at home, but also had information about please be on the floor Be prepared to play and don’t worry, you don’t have to do this or that or in any moment. You can do these with your camera you can turn it off if you need to. Yeah, you can move the important thing is not that I see you but that you are doing them right you know you can even give this session when they’re coming off you can do so given them like the space aplenty space you know like to move and not add as specific way or as specific snow, they can do it however they want.

And you say that a lot of things in this session, I repeated a lot of things. And the same thing you do in in the session with parents, you repeat and repeat the things, repeat the things. And for example, I can say, you can feel comfortable doing this or that in other moments, you can feel comfortable not to do this, you can feel comfortable to do this if you want. But you know, in repeating that word, make something inside of them that they feel so comfortable to be in community and to share later, because they are part of the group. And I’m not the authority because they’re doing the job. So that’s another thing that I always start saying that they’re like, 40 minutes with me, but I live with them. A complete week with the child. So they know I say this a lot that they know better. They kids and me. So that is like, as one day mom asked me, it’s okay that my kids watch this program. And my response was, I don’t know what that program is. But you can go with your instinct. What does your instinct say. And when I asked them to teach me, it makes something inside of them that they can feel free. They live or what they like, and to share the highest highs and lows and all that things.

Ayelet: Right? Because you’re not judging them, you’re not telling them something that’s right or wrong, or even giving them advice to do the next thing, you’re just holding the space and letting them feel and be who they are. And even

Sara: when you are given the instruction journal saying we are gonna do this, you are saying I invite you to do that. And I invite you just that the words. I don’t know whether it’s

Ayelet: an invitation. Yeah.

Sara: Yes, an invitation and knowing that they can say no, right. And I love that they Learn With Less program is not just the four pillars, but also some principles. I think that that knowing that you can give an opportunity just to recreate a space, you don’t have to make the kid do a specific thing. Just I’m making the space. So if the kid doesn’t do something, it’s okay. Because they didn’t have to. So that gives the parents a lot of confidence that it is not them that are doing something wrong. But it’s just that the kid didn’t want to do it in that moment in that’s perfectly fine. Yes. Did you know In the therapy room, it also is amazing, because parents sometimes are like, but why? Why doesn’t my child to do this? And when is he going to do this? How many sessions Do you know, but I say here, I’m not making them do things, I’m just opening a space and giving them the opportunity. And that’s what you have to do. So you have to let go that responsibility, because it’s not your responsibility to just have to give the space, this space is what you have to do. And the other things will happen.

Ayelet: Yeah, thank you. For that side, I’d love to also hear just as we sort of close out, because I’ve taken up a lot of your time already. But I want to hear just a little bit about you know how Learn With Less has impacted you in your life within the program and even outside of the program and how you’re using it not only within the classes, but now also in other parts of your life.

Sara: Yeah, I think that with my friends that are moms, it’s amazing to sit and talk, you know, like not not like a professional, but I will always be a professional even when I’m not doing my work. But I think that the confidence, the confidence that I can I can do the things my own way. And to value my culture, for example, is another thing that actually you have helped me to do more, because you feel that every culture is valuable. And it is a that’s another thing. And as we said some principles like the “yes, and” – it’s something that I’ve learned with the conversations even with my husband, and with everyone because yeah, it’s something that every human needs. So it helps to communicate better. I feel that I’m more creative person because I have to improvise more in the therapy room. So I have to – and in the sessions have Learn With Less so now I can do songs and any song is okay. Yeah, I know. And also about the things that the way I think, have changed, for example, that I thought a lot of the materials for the sessions, but not what is in the kitchen. I don’t have something and now my mind says there must be another thing that can work for that. And it’s amazing to think about that.

Ayelet: Yeah, I think you’re so much more flexible in your own thinking.

Sara: It helps you to be more flexible person. And, you know, I also went when I was in the calls with the other facilitators, we all were in different places, most of them in United States, but other there were Canada, and but we all had a lot of ideas, and we all value connecting with other people and feeling that we are all the same even when we don’t use the same words, or we don’t use the same materials or asking when I don’t understand something like asking them. And you know, it’s it’s so awesome. Yeah. And you know, like, I think that realizing that, yes, you can find inspiration in a lot of places, maybe on Instagram, Pinterest and a lot of places, but you cannot find inspiration inside of yourself. So use that inspiration to create and for your work and also your home, and your friends… and yeah, it’s amazing.

Ayelet: Thank you for that. It’s, I’m so happy you feel that way. Is there anything else that you would like to share just from the heart with our listeners here today?

Sara: You know, I think that maybe that I’m very thankful for this opportunity, not just because of the possibility to give sessions, but because how this changes you as a person and as a therapist or a teacher or whatever, you know, I say therapy or teacher because I do both! But yeah, that that opportunity was so awesome. And I want to repeat this: that if you’re thinking to enter to the program, and you’re evaluating the possibility, just don’t think as specifically, what are you going to do when you finish the program, just let yourself learn in the way and find out how that’s going to work. And also that I’m so thankful, not just for the materials, and the videos, and the audios and all the things we had to read and all the things but also being part of the Facebook group was so amazing, because you have a support group, or you can ask whatever you need, and you can give whatever you have. And really I just want to replicate that someday to have a group where I can help people as as you actually do. And as all the facilitators do.

Ayelet: Yeah, right. Because we try to replicate literally what we’re trying to create for parents so that you can feel that you can feel supported, you can feel like you have a place to ask all the questions. And like you were saying earlier, it’s this, I guess you could call it like a waterfall effect, right? Like you were describing it as a chain reaction to like where you have all of the facilitators are getting what they need, so that they can then pass it down to the parents so that they can then pass it down to the children. And then you are creating this whole social impact and human impact and community impact in communities all over the world. So yes.

Sara: And when you’re like preparing us as Learn With Less facilitators, you are not just, like, reading materials, or listening to things or listening to you, but you are also seeing other people implement the program themselves, and you are able to give them feedback and you are able to receive feedback. So I know it happens that [sometimes] when you are learning, you have… you know how to do that! Because you have never seen someone doing it. You are like confused and afraid. But in this program, you can see and also do it in also talk about it. So it’s like a very complete program.

Ayelet: I love to hear that. Thank you. Thank you for being part of it. We’re so happy. And I’m just I’m so thankful to be in community with you. I’m so grateful for now our friendship.

Sara: I really hope to work with you more because it was so awesome. Any it wasn’t just pray that it was to do the things and learn, but also to be able to talk with you and have all the learning just from talking and all the comfort of being here. Thank you. You don’t have to be like any specific kind of human you can just be up here. And that’s amazing.

Ayelet: Thank you. That means a lot to hear.

Sara: I really love this. I really love this and I’m so thankful for you and all the things that you do I and I really admire you a lot.

Ayelet: Thank you. Well, thank you so much for your time today and all of the energy you’ve given the this program over the last year plus, and we’re just so thankful. Thank you.

The post Enrich Your Practice as a Parent Educator, with Sara Moreno appeared first on Learn With Less.

This episode of the Learn With Less® podcast was recorded as a live, virtual event featuring a very special guest, psychotherapist and trauma-informed transformational coach, Michelle Hardeman-Guptill, and was aimed at both parents/caregivers as well as professionals working with infant/toddler families.

We discussed:

• Michelle’s professional and educational background, and how she came to doing the work she does today
• Some good working definitions for trauma (big and little “T”)
• What does it mean to be “trauma informed” as a practitioner? (& whose wheelhouse is this even in?)
• Tips and resources for those hoping to start looking at / continuing their healing journey in their own trauma
• Tips and resources for those serving families, who would like to engage from a more “trauma-informed” lens

What is Trauma and Trauma-Informed Care? handout created by Michelle Hardeman-Guptill

Trauma-Informed Service Providers Collective, a free group from Michelle Hardeman-Guptill

The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel Van der kolk

Waking the Tiger by Peter Levine

Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma: A Workbook for Survivors and Therapists, by Janina Fisher

Polyvagal Flip Chart, by Deb Dana

National Center for Trauma Informed Care

National Child Traumatic Stress Network

Learn With Less® Bundle: get our favorite infant and toddler development resources (save 70%)! Discover how to support & connect with your tiny human, without having to buy a single toy.

Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program: Use your existing skills as an educator or therapist to serve families holistically with a high quality program that will provide lasting impact! Apply now to become a licensed facilitator Learn With Less®.

Learn With Less® “Caregiver & Me” Classes: the magic of Learn With Less® lies in the communal aspect of coming together with our resources, in community with other families. Join us for a virtual or in-person class led by a licensed facilitator near you!

Michelle: Website / Facebook / Instagram / YouTube

Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest

Ayelet: Welcome back to the Learn With Less® podcast. We are so excited to be hosting this very special live event and I am so very thrilled to be here with all of you in community. I am Ayelet Marinovich, your host of the Learn With Less® podcast. I want to officially introduce you to our very special guests Michelle Hardeman-Guptill. Michelle is a licensed psychotherapist, a trauma informed transformational coach, and an advocate for creating a trauma informed world so that we can all live life from our hearts with compassion, rather than from our fears with defensiveness – well put.

Michelle has been a trauma specialist for the last 15 years. The beginning of her career was focused on children and families, many in the system in some way, many with trauma histories and lived experiences where their voices were not heard, respected or valued. While Michelle continues to work one on one and in small groups with gifted practitioners and creatives who are ready to break through to the next layer of their expansion and possibility, another layer of her work is working with small businesses and corporations to help them create a trauma informed work environment. So from c-level, to management, to staff to customer and consumer, that value of recognizing when someone is responding from a place of trauma (including ourselves!) cannot be overstated.

As Michelle says, “it’s time to look at the elephant in the room.” And it’s always been there, but we have not always been able to know the tools, we haven’t been taught the tools to see it and understand it and deal with it. So Michelle breaks down trauma into digestible and bite sized, practical and often humorous pieces for deeper understanding and a greater sense of confidence and competence in managing the things that distress us, including other humans! Love it. So, that is why I am so excited to have you on the show today, Michelle, and to be able to share this conversation with the greater Learn With Less® community. Thank you so much for being here today with us and welcome.

Michelle: Thank you so much for inviting me into your community. I really appreciate it, I’m excited to be here.

Ayelet: Yeah, good. Fantastic. Well, Michelle, you know, that was the official version of your bio, but we would love to just hear a little bit more about you, about how you actually, you know, came into doing the work that you do today.

Michelle: Yeah! So I guess I’ll start at the beginning, which is that I have my own trauma history. I experienced sexual abuse at a very young age. And part of what happened for me was that my parents… nobody is trained as a parent to recognize the signs, right? Nobody knows. And so they didn’t recognize the signs. And when I finally remembered some things about it, the response was kind of like, Oh, I’m so sorry, let’s just forget that ever happened, you know. And so a lot of the damage of trauma comes after the fact, when someone chooses to share their story, or if they choose not to share their story because they’re afraid to do so.

So I have my own trauma history. And I seemed to have this stamp on my forehead that said, I will listen to your trauma from a very young age. So I had perfect strangers telling me their stories on buses, trains, in supermarkets, you name it. I worked with children in theater, specifically teens. And we were doing a project where they would share their stories from the stage. So we were doing a monologue workshop and group workshop and a lot of trauma started to show up in the room and kids were going home and you know, self harm, substance use. And I realized, you know, I really need to understand how to hold trauma, like I need to understand more about it, I need to learn how to help people compartmentalize it and kind of wrap it up before they leave the room. So I decided to go back to school to become a psychotherapist. And I kind of always specialized in trauma.

And it’s interesting because when you’re trained as a therapist, you’re not actually trained in how to work with trauma. Like that’s what you do after, that’s what you learn after you get your degree, right, they touch on it in little bits and pieces, but it’s not actually like a whole training on like, this is trauma. This is what it looks like. And you have to actually discover that after the fact, which I think is kind of like, huh! You know? So for me, the perspective that I hold is that Yeah, sure, maybe doing some of the deep dive stuff with trauma and really, really working with complex trauma and all of that is in the realm of the therapist, but we’re always dealing with trauma, we’re always dealing with it.

The more informed we are about what it is, what it looks like what’s helpful in those situations, what’s not helpful in those situations, the easier it is for us to be able to manage not only the person in front of us, but ourselves. Because when someone in front of us is having a trauma response, we are often having our own central nervous system response to what is going on for them. And when we can separate those two and recognize that that’s what’s actually happening, we can come back into our own bodies, calm our systems and be able to actually hold space for that person to move through whatever they need to move through.

So there’s a lot of divisiveness in our world right now. And a lot of that divisiveness is trauma, it’s trauma responses, it’s people feeling like their identity is being attacked. And we will talk about the definition of trauma in a moment, because that is a piece of it that a lot of people don’t consider when thinking about the word, “trauma.” So I’m on a mission, to create a trauma informed world and to help as many people and businesses and families become trauma informed as possible. Because I know, for myself, if I had had that, after that experience, it would have changed my life, I wouldn’t have been holding on to the trauma symptoms and reminders in my body and in my mind, if I had had some of those things right after the event. Yeah, that’s my story.

Ayelet: Thank you so much for sharing that, first of all. Let’s get into some good working definitions. Because, you know, we collected a huge amount of responses that was like, so beautiful, I sent out a form to the Learn With Less® community. And everyone responded, like we had so many incredible responses, both from people who identify as parents and caregivers, and from those professionals, like educators and therapists, and people like that, who are, you know, working with new families who are looking to be more trauma informed. And so we’ve been sort of trying to work together, you and I, Michelle, to really come up with like a clear, concise podcast episode with for you, to make sure that we can include all of those things, and all of the beautiful questions and challenges and things that are coming up for people.

One definite pattern that we saw again, and again, was really – and I really appreciate this – coming from all of the people who responded was, you know, I don’t even know what is… like, I can’t even define trauma. I’m not quite sure what that is. And I know that, in general, when we’re talking about trauma, I have, you know, quotations, this is, there are you know, definitions for like that big T trauma and little t trauma. So let’s just first spend a little time, Michelle, talking through some working definitions of trauma, both big and little “T.”

Michelle: Okay. Sounds good. So there’s a lot of definitions out there. And they all kind of point to the same things. But probably the most practical definition I’ve read or heard was from Karl Dawson, who is the founder of EFT, matrix re-imprinting, which is kind of like a regression form of tapping, right? So he came up with this four part definition that I love. And basically what he says is that trauma is an event or series of events that are four different things.

One is that it’s sudden and shocking, right? The second piece is that it is a threat to one’s safety, identity or sanity. The third is that it creates a freeze response, a sense of helplessness, that means they can’t get out of the situation, right? They can’t run, they can’t fight. They’re just kind of frozen in the experience. And then the fourth piece is that they often feel isolated. And that was the piece I was talking about earlier, where they might not feel like they can share about the event with anybody, they might feel shame about it, they might feel they’re going to get in trouble. They might, you know, there’s all kinds of things that can happen.

So the main thing is that it dysregulates the system, right? The system becomes dysregulated during that experience. And so trauma is not actually what happened. A lot of people think that trauma work is like going back into the memory and having to like dig it up and feel the feels… that’s not actually trauma work that’s effective, it can be re traumatizing. Some folks want to go there and when they want to go there and they’re ready to go there, that could be very cathartic and beautiful. But many people are very defended against going there – for good reasons, because their defenses have been there to protect them, right?

So trauma’s not what happened, it is what we believed about ourselves, the world, because of what happened, and what happened in our own body and central nervous system in response to what happened. Unlike animals, we don’t have a way to discharge trauma. So animals in the wild will literally go and shake their bodies and  physically, and sigh and do all of these things to release trauma from their body and then they get up and they run off and they go do their thing and they don’t continue to have trauma responses.

What we do as humans is as soon as we see somebody who’s dysregulated or upset or has had something bad happen to them, we go Oh calm down it’s okay here’s a Kleenex. What do you want? What do you need? Right? We try to fix it, rather than saying oh my god… Wow, that’s so, that’s so intense or that must have hurt so bad, or like do you need – what do you need to do? Do you need to shake your body do, you need to scream? Like, what needs to happen to just release some of that energy? Because if we don’t release it comes out sideways later when we scream at our child or we scream at the dog, or it goes inward and we get disease, right? And we get we get stuff that happens in our bodies.

So big T trauma is basically what most of us think trauma is right: war, domestic violence, sexual abuse, you know, kind of the big, the big ones. Little t traumas are, most of the time are wrapped up more around our identity, right? So these are these are smaller traumas like, you know, let’s see what examples did I give in here? I had a couple of examples, things like non life threatening injuries, emotional abuse, humiliation, bullying, things like that.

So the third grade teacher who humiliated you in front of class and told you that, you know, don’t quit your day job, writing is not your thing. Imagine how a child takes that information. That was an attack to their good writer self. And so if that gets reinforced in any way, shape, or form, that becomes a little t trauma, right? That gets wrapped up in their identity. And now they have complexes or neuroses around writing because it was sudden and shocking to their system, it was a threat to their identity, they felt helpless, and they feel isolated and embarrassed, right. So we don’t think about those kinds of traumas. And the interesting thing about those kinds of traumas is if you have multiple little t traumas, it’s more emotionally damaging than one, big t trauma.

Big T traumas are actually much easier to work through, especially if you get help right away. And little t traumas, like I said, get wrapped up in our identity. And so they’re harder to kind of pull out because a part of us is convinced that’s just who we are. And it’s not true. It’s a part right. It’s a part of us that’s holding on to that particular wounding.

So the other way we can look at trauma is there’s acute, so it was one time and then it was over, it never happened again. And then there’s chronic trauma. Same thing, acute trauma is easier to deal with and chronic trauma, it’s going to take longer. And then there’s physical trauma, and there’s relational trauma. So when we meet people who we consider to be difficult, most likely they have experienced relational trauma.

And what they’re searching for is a sense of safety in relationship, and they’re looking to you for that, even if you didn’t ask to be in that role. So that is another piece is that it’s different. Physical trauma is different than relational trauma. And relational trauma impacts our relationships for the rest of our lives. And so that is the scary thing. And as far as what trauma looks like, you know, there’s so, there’s so many ways that they can look, the DSM has some pretty clear criteria for post traumatic stress disorder, or acute stress disorder that lists some of those things.

But just off the top, the first thing you notice is that they’re dysregulated. And dysregulated usually means they’re being reactive, really big, intense, or they’re completely shut down, they’re checked out, or they’re falling asleep, they’re they’re not here, right? Those two extremes are pretty much really clear indicators that somebody is is kind of in a trauma response. And it’s important to notice that.

It’s not always like sometimes people just daydream, you know, it’s it’s not always that so it’s, that this is the place we got to be careful, is that, you know, if we start jumping to conclusions, we start assuming like, well, what is the trauma? Oh my gosh, this kid is constantly spacing out, or they’re constantly reacting, like, there must be that… we have to be careful because sometimes people just have very sensitive nervous systems in general, you know, there’s a lot of factors here.

But keeping that as a possibility without trying to figure out the why… is trauma informed care, right? Just knowing that it’s there. It’s possible it’s not it doesn’t matter what it was how we work with it is the same, right? We don’t need the details. That piece is not as important.

Ayelet: Ok. Right? Because we’re not actually doing the the human thing of trying to fix everything. Right. So I’m good at that. We’re good at that.

Michelle: You know, I have I have a whole list you know, and most people kind of have a sense of what this is, but I’ll just do a real quick rundown just so that we can kind of touch some of those bases things like startle response, hyper vigilance, avoidance of trauma reminders, certain places certain people isolation, excessive worry, nightmares, flashbacks, acting as if or feeling as if you are back in the situation.

Anger and depression substance use reactions that are sudden intense and hard to shift anxiety, chronic or around specific things. increased heart rate, children will often have somatic symptoms, my tummy hurts, tightness, clenching, shallow breathing, holding on to the breath or hyperventilation, obsessive thinking response disproportional to what’s happened muscle tension, twitches, jumping to conclusions, or worst case scenarios, a sense of not belonging, a sense of not being in one’s body intense fear of abandonment, feeling small and insignificant and feelings of anxiety or fear that seemed incongruent with what’s happening. We’ve all felt that.

Ayelet: Yeah, I mean, let’s just acknowledge, too, that was like so many things. That’s a huge list. And that is, we see all of those things all the time.

Michelle: Exactly, yes, yes. Yeah.

Ayelet:  Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much for breaking all of that down. That is fantastic. Okay, now moving along, to… because you touched on this, what it means to be trauma informed, big has all of us can utilize all of these things, right? Because regardless of whether you are a parent or caregiver with tiny humans, who may or may not have experienced trauma, or you are, I mean, we all have, again… Or you are a professional working with families with tiny humans who may or may not have experienced big traumas, little traumas. I mean, they’re, I think this is one of those words or phrases that’s become like a la mode recently is you need to be trauma informed, make sure you’re a trauma informed provider or practitioner. So for all of the people here wondering what does that actually mean? Please, can you tell us, Michelle?

Michelle: Yes and no. So it’s an ever evolving definition, right? We are we are evolving that exact “what is this” as we speak, as we get clearer on why this is so important. So in general, in general, trauma informed care is a lens, right? It’s a way of looking at things that basically assumes trauma. There, there’s just this underlying assumption that that it’s possible that trauma is in the room between you and I. It is not a trauma service, a trauma specific service.

So it’s trauma specific service would be psychotherapy, a trauma specific service might be somatic experiencing, or clinical hypnosis, or someone who is trained to work with trauma, you know, and has extensive training in trauma as well as the particular modality that they might be using, right? So that’s a trauma specific service. And we’re not asking anybody to become a trauma therapist by being trauma informed, right? We’re asking that people really yeah, just kind of have this perspective, that trauma is probably in the room, and I’m going to respond differently to someone who has experienced trauma than I might to someone else.

So here’s the thing, we can’t hurt anybody by assuming that trauma is in the room, right? If anything, we’re going to get better results with everybody. Because we’re automatically assuming that this person is seeking safety, that this person is seeking connection, that this person needs to know that you are a safe human, right? And how we approach that there’s lots of different pieces to that.

So Gabor Mate has this great phrase, and he says, you know that we need to come from the perspective of what happened to you, not what’s wrong with you. So a lot of times when our kids are acting out, or we see humans, adults acting out, we you know, what’s wrong with you? Why are you doing that? And that makes sense. But it’s not trauma informed, because what we want to understand is what’s actually happening for them, what’s happening inside of them, right? And trauma informed care really is just a, it’s also just a framework for understanding how profound and complex and deep the impacts of trauma are on us socially, physiologically, and emotionally.

Ayelet:  Oh, that was really good. Can you please say that one more time for the people in the back? Trauma informed care is that…

Michelle: It’s a framework for thinking or working with others. Really, that’s, that’s driven by the understanding of how impactful complex and deep the effects of trauma are on us socially and emotionally and physiologically.

Ayelet: Amazing. Also, I just want to name the fact that like, look at Michelle, she is literally living this. She’s not reading from a handout, she has created a handout, which I put into the chat here, and which we will link to in the show notes of the episode once it’s released. But she like this literally is what Michelle does every day all day. And she’s sharing her amazing knowledge with us. And I just, it’s so great that you can just do that and give these working definitions and beautiful. Anyway, I just wanted to say that out loud. So.

Michelle: I want to just add in it’s really just this core component, really of trauma informed care is that we are replacing judgment with curiosity always. And so I would imagine that Ayelet does this, like when she teaches what she teaches like this is probably a core component, right is that he stay in the curiosity, we stay in the wonder of what’s happening.

And so when we’re working with any human, we want to, and we see that they’re in reaction, we want to ask like, Hmm, I wonder what might have triggered this for them? To look for the cause, to actively look for the cause of what might have happened for this child or this human that caused this response and to not take it personally because we cannot be inside another person’s head. We cannot be inside their neurobiology. We do not know what’s actually happening for them and us saying the word ice cream might not mean anything to us, and it might be an incredible trauma reminder for the person in front of you and you don’t have to get it you just have to validate it. Yeah, validation is key.

Ayelet: I mean, it’s so interesting, because as we’re sitting here talking, I’m thinking about, obviously, how this applies to us in our parental roles for those of us who are parents, especially of young children, especially if those young ones who cannot regulate their emotions, who are constantly having these big, big feelings and reactions to everything throughout the day, right? And so not only is it just, it feels like such good practice to just be there and reflect back to them and validate back to them what they’re experiencing, all of their feelings. This is how we build emotional regulation. This is how we build self regulation skills. This is what co-regulation is. Right?

Michelle: Exactly. Exactly. And co-regulation is everything. Yes. Like I said at the beginning, if I can assume that this is a trauma response, right? That it’s not me. I didn’t do something, you know, it’s like, this is a trauma response for this human. Can I, what do I need to do to come my central nervous system so that they can regulate to me? It’s everything. It’s everything. So when I’ve worked with clients in the midst of their psychosis, in the midst of, you know, an angry outrage, and I just breathe and open my body and stay calm, they regulate to me.

But if I let my central nervous system get out of control, or I assume anything, or you know, jump into my own response, then I’m going to join them, I’m going to go with whoever is strongest in the room. And generally, the grounded is the strongest, as long as we can sustain it, right? As long as we can just stay in that, keep breathing and keep our bodies open, it’s huge.

Ayelet: It does, it totally re adjusts the energy in the room, when you have somebody who’s just standing there, stating facts, being there, holding space, right? It is so much more powerful and so much more effective than the person who’s going, “blah blah blah!!!!” Or joining in on that high level high energy, high emotion, as you just said, but wow, yeah, so this, of course, then also applies to us as grownups with other grownups.

Right, whether it’s a partner, a parenting partner, whether it’s a client, whether it’s a parent of our own selves, or whatever, like coworkers, obviously, this is all applicable. Yes, it’s all there. So if you are, for instance, maybe you’re joining us as a Learn With Less® facilitator, right, and you are a professional, who works with families, and now you’re venturing into like leading these sort of family enrichment classes, well, this is the kind of thing that you’re going to want to be aware of and knowledgeable about and be able to hold that space and take that deep breath and hold that space for any one of your families or every single one of your families. Carly is here. And she says, “Absolutely!” And and how powerful that is.

And so, it’s so interesting, right, Michelle, because we, when we saw all of those responses to our questions about you know, what is your challenge? What what are you challenged by? What questions do you have about being trauma informed? A lot of what came up for people is as, say, a speech language pathologist or somebody else working with families, is this even in my wheelhouse, right? Well, I think yes, from what we’ve been talking about, as you can see, yes, this is not about being a trauma therapist, as a say, occupational therapist, physical therapists, speech language pathologist, this is about being trauma informed. And being able to assume trauma is in the room, if you are a professional, or if you are a parent or caregiver with your own family.

Michelle: Well, and part of trauma informed care is that you refer! You recognize when you are outside the scope of your professional training, right, and your personal experience, or your own capacity, right, like we get to do that we get to say this is outside of my capacity. You know, as a therapist, there are times when I have to turn away people who are really struggling because I already have a lot of really struggling people on my caseload, and I can’t maintain if I don’t make sure to refer that person to another person, right? I got to keep my cup full. I’ve got to make sure that I’m taken care of for I cannot be the best provider that I can be.

So part of trauma informed care is also taking care of you, doing your own trauma work. Learning about trauma, referring out talking to people being in a consultation space where you can talk about some of the difficult parents or difficult children or difficult partners or whatever we need to talk about to be able to really just like have a place to let it go without judgment so that we can come back into ourselves because what happens in the brain when we’re in a trauma response.

The other thing I want to say about trauma is that trauma, like let’s throw that word out, let’s say, it’s a stress response. It’s under anxiety disorders in the DSM. It’s a stress response. So okay, maybe there wasn’t trauma, it’s still a stress response, it’s still the same thing that’s happening in the body and the brain. And we’re going to work with it in the same way, you know. So we need places as providers, to release our own stress, to shake out our own bodies to go dance to do whatever we’ve got to do to release this, I have rituals that I do at the end of my day, every single day to release my clients, and so that I don’t take them home with me in my head, it’s so important that we have those practices for ourselves. Otherwise, we can’t keep doing this right in a sustainable way.

Ayelet: It’s so true. I mean, this is, again, for those of you who are here with us live, who happen to be in the Learn With Less® Facilitator Program. This is again, why, of course, this is what we’re creating for families and community. And then this is also what we create together for our community of facilitators. That is why it is so important to have that continued support and community with each other. Fantastic.

Okay. So before we move into the next section of today’s event, which we’re going to be talking more about sort of specific tips and resources, I want to just first address that, we have a couple of things I want to show you in the chat, direct your attention to… Michelle has created an amazing handout for today, all about, what is trauma and trauma informed care. And you can access that here in the chat, as well as some basic ways that you can do more to Learn With Less®, if you are interested in any of the things of course that we have to offer. So, of course, those will be linked in the show notes as well. Alright, so we’re going to I see, we’re getting a few questions in the chat. And we are going to move to a Q&A in just a few moments.

But first, let’s go ahead and talk a little bit about some tips and resources for those hoping to start looking at or continue their healing journey in their own trauma, right? Whether you are or are not a parent or caregiver yourselves, sharing a little bit about a few tips for those hoping to look at their own trauma journey. And of course, as well as whether or not you’re a parent or caregiver yourself.

Michelle: Yeah. So the biggest thing to remember, I saw some of these on the comments and the questions, really was like, how do I basically not screw up my kid because of my own trauma, right? So I want to give some assurance here, relationship is about rupture and repair, end of story, we cannot be in relationship…

Ayelet: Full stop.

Michelle: Right! So we cannot be in relationship without rupture and repair. So what we need to get good at is the repair. That’s what we need to get caught up because we are going to rupture, we have to radically accept, as parents, we’re going to screw up, we’re going to screw up big, and the healing comes in that repair. The damage is avoidance, secrecy, not taking responsibility, pretending it didn’t happen. That is the damage of trauma. So if you can come back to your child, any child, whether you’re working with them, or they’re your own child or any human, and come back and say, This is what I did, and I see how it impacted you. And I’m sorry that what I did or said impacted you in that way. Here’s my plan to try to work on it in myself, so I don’t do it again. Does that sound good? That’s it right? We come back.

Or if a child is in reaction, or human is in reaction to something that we’ve done, we regulate our system, and we see if we can help them regulate theirs, right? We cannot combat stress and a stress response with more stress. We cannot combat it by yelling at it, we cannot combat it by, you know, telling it we’re right, we cannot combat it with any of those things! We have to combat it with quiet spaces, quiet energy, validation, I see that you’re upset or I see that your face is really tense and your your hands are balled, you know, because sometimes we can say it looks like, you’re, I think you’re angry and “I’m not angry,” you know.

But if we stick with the facts, just like you said earlier, Ayelet is like, you know, we have to stick with the facts, I see that you’re, you know, your jaw is clenched, and your and your hands are clenched. What’s happening? That what’s happening question again, right? What’s happening to you or in you rather than what’s wrong with you, you know, why are you acting that way? So I really want to encourage parents that awareness is key. If I’m aware that I just had a reaction that doesn’t seem to make sense, right? Then I need to take that step back, reflect, see where that came from. So the biggest tool I can offer you is Oh, what’s happening? Okay, I’m activated. I don’t like the word triggered, by the way. I like to use word, “activated,” even though it’s in my paperwork, because that’s the word most people use.

But I like to use the word activated because it takes, there’s some ownership here. Like, I’m noticing something is happening in my system or my mind or whatever. So I’m activated. What is that? What does that remind me of? Oh, this reminds me of all of the times when, you know, my dad would get mad at me for such and such and I would feel really embarrassed. Okay. Is that what’s actually happening right now? No. Okay, so alarm system parts that are holding on to the story. We’re good. We’re okay. That’s all right. And we take a breath and we move on. That that series of what am I feeling? How big is it? What does it remind me of? Is that what’s actually happening right now and then doing what I need to do to regulate my system, and then coming back in or giving myself a break, is key to working with our own system, right?

When my children were around the same age, as my sexual abuse, all my stuff came up, I was terrified, I didn’t want to leave them with anybody. I, you know, didn’t want them taking bags together, like all of this stuff came up. And luckily, I was being trained as a therapist. So I went to my colleagues and supervisors and was like, what’s normal? What’s not normal? Like, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do here. And it was so incredibly helpful to just own that I was having a trauma response, to ask the questions I needed to ask, to assure myself that I was doing everything right, that I was doing everything I needed to do that I was very comfortable talking about body parts, that there was no shame in our house around bodies, you know, all of the things.

And then I was able to calm my own nervous system and know that, like, I know what the signs are, you know, what the signs are, and I know the people that my children are around. I can take a breath, you know, and, and relax. I know, I know that I can ask my children questions, that there are no secrets in our house. You know, I’ve set the stage for my children to be able to talk to me about these things.

So there’s so many different I mean, as far as like, what helps and tools like there’s so many things, but the biggest thing to remember is, what you know, if I’m if I’m experiencing stress, what do I need? Like what’s helpful when I’m experiencing stress? Do I need a break? Do I need to drink some hot tea? Do I need to go for a run? You know, what do I need to do? And so when we’re working with children, one of the first things we can ask, actually, is asking the parent and the child when you get really upset, what helps you? What helps you calm down? Do you have a special teddy bear? Do you like hugs? You know, or do you like not like hugs? Like, do you really not want people to touch you when you’re upset? To have those conversations ahead of time before there’s ever a problem? And maybe even as part of your assessment!

No matter what you do, you know, that’s another trauma informed lens is that no matter what you’re doing to do like an ACES questionnaire, and an aces questionnaire, basically rates kind of the most common traumas that people can experience. And when there is more than… I think it’s like three or four, you know, you’re going to be having some trauma responses in the room. Simple, Simple, Simple, Simple.

And we’re not used to asking those questions, right? We’re afraid we’re being invasive, we’re afraid, like, oh, people don’t want to talk about that. Actually, people really want to talk about that, you know, secrecy is where the damag is, you know? So if we can help people share in a contained way, it’s a questionnaire, right? We don’t want to open a can of worms and I don’t want to give an assessment that says lame, all of the deepest, darkest traumas you’ve ever experienced, you know, like, we don’t want that.

But we do want to know if there’s a trauma history, we can have some checkboxes, you know, so that that person also knows like, oh, wow, this person may know how to hold space for that, right? Let’s see. Okay, so someone asked, I love this question. Someone asked what is good enough?

Ayelet: Yeah that’s a great question, I saw that, too.

Michelle: I was like, Okay, good enough, is everything we’ve been talking about? Yeah, holding space for another’s feelings another’s reaction, as long as they’re not like being violent or, you know, abusive, then we have a right to walk away or do whatever we need to do but to to hold space. And if we can’t, to come back and do the repair, do not avoid the repair. The repair is how to be good enough. I used to write apology letters to my children. And then they started to write apology letters to me, it was the sweetest thing.

Because it taught them like it is important to take responsibility. Right? But we don’t have to beat ourselves up. We don’t have to tell ourselves we’re bad people we don’t have to be in self judgment. We want to go back again to that curiosity right. Why did I do that?

Ayelet: This right here is the key and I think because all of us anyone who has ever been in relationship with anyone else has experienced this like oh, I really messed that one up. Yeah. And in the moment especially, I think especially as parents, right? I will just speak from my own experience. As a mom when I mess up with my toddler preschooler, school aged child. I even when when my children were babies, I knew that I was not always going to get it right. I know that I am not always going to get it right. That is a fact. When you do you feel like an Olympic athlete right? You feel superhuman. That’s great.

When you when you don’t and you feel yourself. I love that, activated… and you’re having the thing and you still can’t catch yourself because when you are activated, triggered, whatever you want to call, like, it’s really hard to come down from that in the moment, the more practice you have, the more easy it gets to do in those moments, however, you’re never going to get it right 100% of the time. And, and I actually I hate saying “get it right,” because even that it’s like, no, you’re not going to, you’re not going to obtain perfection. How about that, right? Because number one, no one needs to be perfect.

We are, we are humans, that is literally not the point. And number two, it’s about the repair, as you said, Michelle, because it’s about coming back and saying, example from my own life, I have recently noticed that I am totally nutso about like, I get wild about being on time. And it’s partially because, I finally identified, that it’s partially because my own mom has a problem with time management, right. And that pissed me off as a kid and as a growing up adult, and it still pisses me off. And it makes me feel this ball of frustration. Yeah, so I will not be late, right? And I get this terrible anxiety. And when my kids are fooling around and not putting on their shoes, I start going nuts. And I have this big, big, big reaction. And they’re like, What is wrong with you mom, basically, right? Like, I can see it in their faces. And I can feel it in my own body. And finally, I have started to acknowledge it to them, because I finally was able to identify it. Right?

Michelle: Exactly, exactly.

Ayelet: And now I literally said to my kids, like, Listen, I want to just say out loud, like, I’ve realized this about myself, I get really freaked out, I get very anxious when I know I want to be on time, and we are not on time. And I’m really sorry that I yelled at you. And that is on me. And I’m really sorry. And if you see me going like that. And if you’ve not that it’s your problem, and not that you’re responsible for it. But you can say to me, Mama, it’s okay. It’s okay if we’re late. And that actually might even help me. But personally, I need to say that to you. And I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have yelled at you.

And oh my gosh, the other day, my now four year old was like breaking out he didn’t like how I was talking to him. And he removed himself from the room and then came back when he was ready. He said I’m sorry Mama, I just wanted a sandwich. And I’m like, Oh, my God, it worked, right? Because it does work. And it does work. You don’t have to get it right. You just need to repair and acknowledge when you are overstimulated, over, you know, whatever, when when you are in that moment.

Michelle: So here’s here’s a piece I want to give because I did see that there were people who have their own trauma, right, that were that were asking questions. So the way that the brain operates is that, trauma and trauma responses live in the emotional, the limbic part of the brain, right? The emotional center of the brain, when that part of the brain, think of the brain as a mood ring, right? When that part of the brain is red, the part of our brain that thinks about consequences that thinks through situations that’s able to plan is offline, there is no blood going to that part of the brain, it’s black.

I don’t care how smart you are, I don’t care how long you’ve been meditating, if there is a trauma reminder, trigger activator in the environment, the amygdala is going to go on fire, there’s no blood coming here. So there’s no point in having a conversation, there is no point in trying to do an intervention, there is no point in any of it. Until l I can get that amygdala, a lovely shade of green. And when there’s a lovely shade of green, then I’ve got all the blood flowing here. And I can actually do what I need to do or figure out the problem or whatever.

So your son going, that’s what he did, he went and made his amygdala green, so he could come back and acknowledge that he was frustrated and that he had a particular behavior. So those of you with trauma history, one of the things that I hear all the time is Oh my god, there’s so much like it feels overwhelming, just even starting, why did I even have a kid? I’m just going to screw them up. Because you know, I’ve got all of this complex trauma in my history.

Here’s the thing when you start to do the work of that process: What does it remind me of? Where is this really coming from? Is that what’s going on? Okay, alarms, you can turn off now take a breath, the more you do that, you… there are traumas I haven’t actually worked on because they kind of stopped being triggered because my central nervous system was trained to go through that process of what oh, okay, you know, and so that is so helpful to just recognize that no matter how much trauma you do have, the goal of any trauma treatment is not to go back into the memory, it’s to teach the central nervous system that the world is safe right now. That’s it.

So when we think about being trauma informed that lens of what can I do to create safety in this moment for this person who’s in front of me is probably the the most pivotal piece being trauma informed.

Ayelet: Amazing. Amazing. Okay, let’s drop the mic for Michelle. Alright, so those were some amazing tips. That was I think we all have a lot to think about, here. What about for people who would like both again, for those who are on their own trauma healing journey, and those who would like to have more resources, what you like to recommend as far as resources, for engaging and serving families who would like to engage, you know, from a more trauma informed lens. And just just again, I would like to acknowledge in the chat, we had a comment that said, I so needed this today. Thank you for letting me feel real and not crazy. And yeah, yes, amazing, right?

Michelle: Yes. So okay, so someone, when you’re on your own trauma journey, there’s, there’s so many different ways to work through stuff, right. So you know, sometimes we need a guide. Sometimes, I love that there was this great Facebook picture of like, the therapist and the client, and there was like this big ball of yarn with all these different colored strings all wrapped up together. And it was like the therapist was kind of helping to like pull the strings down one by one, right, to kind of help you like, okay, here’s one, let’s just focus on that one. I know there’s other stuff here, you know.

So some trauma specific modalities that that I personally love for myself, and also for my clients are Brainspotting, EMDR, EFT – the tapping, dialectical behavioral therapy, which is actually set of skills. So there’s a lot of really good DBT workbooks out there. And those skills are mindfulness, emotional regulation, distress tolerance, and interpersonal effectiveness. And they’re all based on how trauma impacts all of those areas. Trauma keeps us from being mindful, trauma keeps us from being able to even acknowledge that we’re having an emotion, let alone control it, trauma tells us that when we’re in distress, the world is falling, we’re gonna die, terrible things are gonna happen.

And trauma impacts the way we communicate with others, because we’re trying to communicate from a reactive place or an activated place rather than from that calm, central nervous system. So those tools are just incredible. Let’s see, I had like a whole little list here of other things, clinical hypnosis, TRE – tension, stress, and trauma release… is basically a kind of a way of teaching people to actually like do the shaking and moving things through their body, which is so powerful. When I do Brainspotting. Sometimes people their bodies will start to shake in their teeth or chatter, and they’re like, what’s happening? And I’m like, this is beautiful, you’re releasing trauma, like, this is literally your body doing what it was designed to do to shake this stuff out.

Ayelet: Right? Like you were talking about earlier, as an animal does.

Michelle: Yes, exactly, exactly. And the best thing we can do for our kids, she was like, shake it out, like, Let’s dance it out. Let’s stomp, like, let’s just really, you know, move it through our bodies, and then anything related to Somatic Experiencing, Hakomi, working with the body, the body is essential. You cannot do trauma treatment without addressing the body and the central nervous system response, we in the last 10 years, it’s become really, really clear that just talking about trauma will never, ever, ever heal and solve trauma, talking about it in a safe space where you’re allowed to have all of the feelings and do the shaking, and do all that kind of stuff is beautiful, because it’s incorporating the body, right, and it’s incorporating the witnessing.

And it’s all of those things. I have a whole list in the handout, of resources. The two top books that I would suggest are The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel Van der kolk. And Waking the Tiger by Peter Levine. Both of those books really explore what happens in the brain and body through trauma responses. There are tips and tools in those books that can be really supportive. I think the challenge for many folks is like, this is wonderful, and I know for myself, this was my experience… I couldn’t touch the deeper trauma with a 10 foot pole without having somebody take me there because the thought of trying to do it alone in my bedroom was terrifying.

Ayelet: With a book. Yeah.

Michelle: So they can help you build tools. They can help you build central nervous system regulation skills, those are all vitally important. And when you are ready to really do the deep dive to again like to take that part that’s holding that story and give it everything it needs and bring that part back inside so it’s no longer running the show, that is going to be deep work. And Internal Family Systems is something I mix with brain spotting to do that, because it is so, I can’t even tell you like I’ve been a trauma therapist for a long time. And when I found Brainspotting, it was like I found the Holy Grail. And when I was able to combine Brainspotting and the parts work, the level of shifts for folks with complex trauma is just incredible.

So highly recommend IFS and parts work – there is a good book out there. I don’t know if I listed it, I don’t think I actually did about IFS that might be helpful to just start learning to use parts language. I use it with, with everybody – I use it with my husband, I use it with my kids: So a part of me is really pissed right now. Another part of me gets why you’re doing what you’re doing, right? A part of me is kind of worried about this, but another part of me knows that everything’s gonna be okay. So identifying which part of us is activated can be really amazing.

Psychoeducational tools. So there’s a flip chart by Janina Fisher is basically just a psycho educational trauma flip chart, I think is what it’s called, I use that sucker all the time, I need to get a new one. It’s like ratty at this point, because I use it all the time. And for there’s a smaller version, like a desktop version, I highly recommend it. For anybody who works with humans. It’s just really helps you understand and really clearly and succinctly describe what’s happening in the brain. It’s just, it’s so good, I highly recommend it.

Another one is the polyvagal theory flip chart. And polyvagal theory, basically, it’s a whole thing. And it’s really useful information to again, understand what’s happening in the central nervous system and to have tools to calm the nervous system. The thing about trauma work is like you can do all of those things. And the way I kind of talked about is like, but you’re mowing the weeds, they’re going to come back, you got to pull him up by the roots. And that’s where that deeper work when you’re ready, and you feel like you’ve got lots of tools and resourcing to go ahead and go in and pull those things out. Because you don’t really need them anymore.

There’s a movie that just came out by I can’t remember their names. But Gabor Mate is one of the key people in it’s called The Wisdom of Trauma, another excellent film in very clearly describing what trauma is and how impactful it is in our society. Gabor Mate is tearing apart the medical system and substance abuse systems and basically saying, What the hell are you people doing? If you’re not trauma informed, you’re doing damage. And so he’s very vocal about how we just completely ignore this piece of trauma and what we’re going to do about it, because I think what a lot of people think is like, Oh, God, if I open that can of worms, like we’re never, it’s never gonna stop, right. And that’s not true, we have tools to be able to help close the box back up, stick it on the shelf until we’re ready to deal with it later.

And then there are some links for those of you who are providers, just for some documents around trauma informed care that I found really useful National Center for Trauma Informed Care. And then there’s the National Child Traumatic Stress Network, they have some workshops that are I think, either free or very, very low cost on how trauma impacts children that are excellent if you have children, if you have your own trauma history and or if you work with children, it’s it’s really there’s a lot of great information.

Ayelet:  Amazing. Again, all of those are listed inside of Michelle’s handout, the link for which is in the chat and will be in the show notes when this episode is published. Okay, well, thank you so much for all of that. We’re gonna go ahead and open up for a Q&A at this time.

Full replay of the interview + Q&A lives inside the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program. Apply now!

The post What is Trauma and Trauma Informed Care? With Michelle Hardeman-Guptill appeared first on Learn With Less.

Today’s episode is just an intimate conversation between you and I wanted to share a bit about what guides our work here at Learn With Less®, and how we make decisions about the resources we share, the people we bring on to join us on this platform, and the values that guide us.

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I want today’s message to reach you as we reset for a new season of Fall, a new school year, and so many hopes for the future. I’m recording this in mid to late August 2021. So over the last few years, I’ve done a lot of work to create a values aligned life and business.

Undoubtedly, parenting and working through a pandemic has tested so many of us on so many levels. However, when we get clear on our values, it helps us to clarify what motivates us and helps us to see the path forward to the life we want to create. And sometimes more importantly, how to get there in integrity with what we believe.

Now, if you’ve done any kind of values work before, you’ll know that this experience can help illuminate and lighten the load. I’d also love to get to know what your values are. So you can go ahead and send me a message on Facebook or Instagram at Learn With Less®. Seriously, I love learning about you and I love reading every response.

Now if you’ve been here for a while or you’re new to Learn With Less®, I want to re-familiarize you with the values that we hold here partly because I believe it will clarify for you whether you still want to be here you know receiving my emails or listening to this podcast. I’m partly because I want you to know more about what motivates me and how we create the resources that we do here at Learn With Less®. So here we go.

What are the values we hold at this company? You know, I start every podcast episode in my intro by defining what those are. But really these help to guide every decision that we make here at Learn With Less®. So the first value that I’d like to share with you is community. This is one of the reasons why I create this podcast to be in community with you all at some level, right? We also value communal learning, the resources that we share in our Learn With Less® “caregiver & me” classes, our books, things like that.

We really do share resources that help facilitate communal learning, which is about facilitation versus like hierarchical learning and learning together and alongside one another and really creating a safe and brave space that is inclusive for all identities. We value communal support in that we’re here for each other. And we recognize that our diverse experiences make us stronger.

Now I create community, on a broad scale, of course with you here, just by being in your ear or listening to this podcast, but I also take it very seriously with regard to say, the training program that I have created with the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program. We create a very strong community, and we build community for our facilitators that we’ve trained and licensed, and then support and coach along the way as they continue to bring our programs into communities in their world. And we also want to, of course, foster that community building for each and every class that any one of our facilitators hold.

So we model that in our training program. And then that gets to be just divided and conquered and continued on through the facilitation of our licensees through the Learn With Less® program all over the world.

The second value I want to share with you is playfulness. Now being playful, is a core element of the Learn With Less® philosophy play is also one of our four pillars including play, talk, sing and move. And these four pillars are present in really everything we do and all the resources like my books, Understanding Your Baby and Understanding Your Toddler. And that’s what all of the Learn With Less® caregiver and parent and me classes are based upon.

So play, talk, sing, and move… but play! We know that play begets play, right? So the more playful we can be as adults, the more we can model playfulness to our children and at our company for our clients, right? Both those parents and caregivers and the professionals we serve. So this often takes the form of musicality, right? This is why we start and end each episode of the podcast with with a song! It might take the form of sharing joy and joyful moments and silliness, and just stuff surprise and delight. So we try to you know, incorporate playfulness into really everything we do.

The next value I want to share with you is simplicity. You know, the Learn With Less® philosophy is is very much about simplicity, right? It’s not a parenting philosophy. It’s just about re-adjusting, reformulating, re-orienting… it’s about re-orienting our lens to see the value within simple, simple materials and simple moments of everyday simple interactions. Right? So we value simplicity in materials. But also, since that’s such a core value, we try to incorporate simplicity into all the explanations that we provide for clients in our resources and in our content, like our books for instance, definitely in our classes, right, our Learn With Less® classes are very much, we try to say less and do less and give you more opportunity to observe and practice and explore and reflect as a parent. And as our licensees know, we really encourage facilitators of our classes to do and guide less, say less, and give our parents and caregivers the chance to try and do more.

So simplicity in explanations as well as simplicity in processes that we create here at Learn With Less® in the back end and then simplicity in solutions to help you move forward in you know in your own parenting style or moving our clients one step forward who participate in our classes to say like, “oh well here’s one little thing when very simple adjustment or different strategy that you might try with your little one when you’re sitting with them or changing a diaper.”

And also simplicity to help our facilitators who are building these sort of side hustles building these “caregiver & me” classes within their communities like how can they move one step forward to really build that business or build that practice of working with families we believe that families already have everything they need right simplicity and materials so we know that toys are great and a lot of people ask me you know well if I am following Learn With Less® do I does that make me you know quote unquote, “a bad person” or “a bad mom” or “a bad professional” if I’m drawn in by certain toys and buying toys?

Listen, we’re not anti toy! You know, we, we just we value simplicity. We know that this reorientation that you can make for yourself and readjustment to see that there are so many ways that you can play with a simple empty tissue box and you… don’t need, you know, a beautiful, organically stained wooden toy to do essentially the same thing, right pull tissues out of a box, for instance, or explore simple materials as a baby or a toddler. Like, we all know that that empty paper roll, it’s pretty amazing and can take the form of so many things. So we share how to play and how to talk and sing and move with those simple, simple materials.

Now, another one of our values is education. We value the power of knowledge. And we know that the network effect of our shared communal knowledge as a whole is so much more powerful than that of one person, right. So that’s why I love bringing guests on to the podcast. And when I started the Learn With Less® podcast, you know, the first, I don’t know, 25-30 episodes, I was I was creating all that content myself. But as I went along and realized that, my goodness, I don’t have all the answers, obviously, I’m one person, I’m not supposed to have all the answers.

And I, as a parent, myself, as well as a professional really wanted to learn from others. So I would bring on people who are knowledgeable in lots of different areas, or who had totally different unique experiences from what I have. And so, I so believe that we can all educate ourselves through others, it doesn’t have to be, you know, formal education, it can certainly be through communal education and through your community.

So, you know, we encourage you so much as I said, community is such a big part of what we do here with our classes that we share with families all over the world. And we encourage you to educate yourself about how your child learns, because that’s so much that takes so much of the edge off of early parenthood, I think for many caregivers is just knowing, okay, well, what’s appropriate, right now, what’s my kid supposed to be doing or, or thinking about or knowing or understanding, you know, when we have that knowledge to know what our kiddos might be working on, then we can think about very simple ways that we can support that learning, right?

We also value self education and self advocacy, and then reaching out for support when you need it. So that’s why, for instance, with the Learn With Less® Facilitator Training & Certification Program, we have created a robust set of resources and a beautiful, you know, very organized framework for people to go through our process, and then be able to successfully host these classes, Learn With Less® “caregiver & me” classes throughout their communities and bringing in clients, and sharing our values really, at the end of the day with people in their community, those shared values.

But we also continually support our clients, and we know that they’re going to also have to reach out for what they need. We are here, right? We are always here to help. But we definitely want people to be able to advocate for what they need. And we are here to listen, the last value I want to share with you is our value of inclusivity. We very much value the diverse perspectives, experiences and practices of our clients, all of our clients.

And that includes, again, both our licensees and then the families that we all ultimately serve. And we really do value, of course, the provision of access, offering information and service at all financial levels. For instance, through this Learn With Less® podcast, through our books, through our “caregiver & me” classes and our courses. And then through our licensing and certification program, we are in the practice of honoring and creating and upholding spaces for those who hold marginalized identities. We try to do this and educate ourselves in a responsible manner that doesn’t center one identity.

We also encourage you, our community, our larger community to be in a practice of self understanding with regard to things like anti bias work, anti racist work, so that you can responsibly serve and uphold the identity of your clients, your community members, fellow parents, fellow caregivers, in your community, or in other aspects of your own professional or personal work.

So those are the values – those are the values that we hold dear. Defining and leaning into my values has definitely given me the vocabulary, helped me to set the intention, and allowed me to live my values really through my business as well as in my personal life through my parenting and truly create remarkable space for folks that I serve. And it has created so much more depth for all of my clients and really provided me with such a strong compass for the way that I’m doing business.

So I wanted to share that with you and whether you are a parent, a caregiver, an educator, a therapist, or all of the above. Whether you are expecting your first child or you have multiple tiny humans running around your home, or whether you support families in the perinatal stage of life for those with young children, we all have values that define us, that help us shape our commitments, and that allow us to lead our lives heading down the path that we want to go.

I would love to know: what are yours? Give it some thought, and tell me! I would love for you to share by sending me a message on Facebook or Instagram over at @learnwithless because the more I know about you and the values you hold, the more I get to understand our broader community that we’re building. I understand more about what inspires you, what guides you, and what it is about learning with less that helps you find meaning and inspiration.

So with that, we’re going to sing our goodbye song and head out. Thank you so much for joining me today!

The post What Are Your Values as a Parent or Professional in Early Childhood? appeared first on Learn With Less.

In this episode of the Learn With Less® podcast, Ayelet brings back a chat with two women who helped shape the journey of the entire Learn With Less® infant and toddler curriculum. Manuela and Gwen, two mothers living in London, became parents at the same time as (and along with) Ayelet.

Together, they created and maintained a community for new parents and caregivers, by learning alongside each other, and learning alongside their babies. This process of interaction and modeling, of learning and discovering, of exploring and experimenting, is what we discuss in today’s episode.

We cover the ways in which, through the powers of observation and the benefit of learning through a developmental framework and in community with each other, these new parents learned to find the confidence to play with, connect with, and support their babies.

We discussed:

• What types of activities helped to guide their children (using simple materials they already had)
• How they learned to use play, communication strategies, music, and movement to support all areas of their children’s development
• Why community, simple play ideas, and learning about child development have completely shifted the parenting and lives of these three mothers

Attend a Learn With Less® Class: stop winging it and raise a great human from day one – without having to buy a single toy

Download the Learn With Less® Infant/Toddler Development Blueprint, a straightforward guide helping you connect early learning with the simple things you’re often already doing, building confidence and capacity, and raising a great human from day one

Understanding Your Toddler: A Month-By-Month Development and Activity Guide For Playing With Your Toddler From One to Three Years, by Ayelet Marinovich

Understanding Your Baby: A Week-By-Week Development and Activity Guide For Playing With Your Baby From Birth to 12 Months, by Ayelet Marinovich

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Ayelet: I’m joined by Manuela and Gwen and we are sitting here in London… And we are just regaling the past. And I thought that there are not many more appropriate people than the two of you to help tell the story of how this whole thing was started. Because we met, actually, the three of us while we were still pregnant with our first. Yeah.

And we met in a prenatal yoga class and I remember actually one of the first days that I met you, Manu. Well that I was just amazed by, you were just like the stuff you ever got, a long, beautiful dark hair and this just perfectly pregnant belly.

And I was like, wow, she’s so cool. She’s so Italian. And, and then we walked out and you got on your motorcycle and you put on your helmet and you just sped away. And I was like, “wow, I can’t wait to see her next week.”

Manuela: Pregnant on the motorcycles… not advisable! But… it was that, I know.

Ayelet: A very easy way to get around in London.

Manuela: And I also remember the first time I met you! I remember as yesterday. This woman, this girl, actually. I remember a lovely light, sunny day. There was light coming from the window, and I saw you with a green chiffon on your hair. I don’t know, you were so… energetic! I said, “oh!”

This is my first memory of you. And it was magic, and I said, “I don’t think she’s English.” Because I didn’t hear your voice yet, but I was wondering where you were coming from. But I was amazed by your energy and your colors. I remember green, and the light.

Gwen: My first memory was thinking, “she is not English!” because… I was sitting next to you on the yoga mat. And I’d never spoken to you before, I don’t think I’d even seen you before.

And you just came and started having a conversation with me – with a beautiful, I remember, very open smile, and thinking, “how nice!” You know? So, the English are a wonderful people, you know, but it takes a little longer to open up.

Manuela: So, you brought us this amazing energy, and then we started this journey together. Yeah, and I remember it was really together in the real sense because we started to discover things together.

Gwen: Yeah. I think if I were to summarize, I was a first time parent. I’m an only child. In fact myself, I didn’t grow up with siblings, I hadn’t had much contact with babies in most of my life. And so I came to motherhood with this being… Feeling like a complete amateur and, and that’s, I know I shouldn’t feel so critical of myself, but I felt, you know, a bit isolated and a little bit lost.

And Ayelet, I think, as you were saying Manuela, she just brought us together and she created this community, which is a wonderful thing, which made me feel supported and reassured and it’s just, it was such a wonderful warm feeling to meet once a week and sometimes more.

And then I think she just taught me that parenting is, is simple. That you just need to get away from this tendency to just want to keep doing things, buying things and reading books and so on. And you just need to sit back and observe your child and listen to them and just let them lead you as opposed to doing what instinctively I did, which was to want to lead her.

Ayelet: But we’re the grown-ups, right? Isn’t that our responsibility?

Gwen: Yeah! And, and I think I wouldn’t be lying if I said, I think the group we had at the time that Ayelet was leading really changed my parenting journey completely, gave me confidence and changed, changed my life in more ways than one. And, yeah. Fast forward to the day I heard you were leaving. What are we going to do? It was, what are we going to do? 

Manuela: We had the second child – without you! Yeah. We were, because we were still meeting a lot. Catching up. But having this big loss. 

Gwen: Yes, exactly. But you had sewn the seeds.

Manuela: Exactly. Trying, trying to, to do exactly what we were doing. Even without you, but with your guide in our mind. Yes. Try to… We didn’t need to remember it because what we’ll learn together, uh, it was in our veins. It was already in us. Yeah. So we didn’t have to remember something but only to say, okay, let’s do yeah – Ayelet’s way what she would do that.

Ayelet: First of all, what were some of the things that stand to you that we did together that, that were so special?

Manuela: As, as Gwen said, I was, I’m also an only child, only child, so, and I really didn’t have any contact with babies in my life before, so I really didn’t know anything about babies. Not even a book about baby, nothing, nothing. We, for me it was this, watch my child, um, and discover – I wasn’t alone in discovering what was happening.

So I was watching, observing and together we used to discuss behaviors, our behaviors too, not only our children’s behaviors, but also our reactions about them, about what was happening to us as well. It was huge. It was huge. We, uh, we are alone in London.

We are alone and so we were, we were growing up children on our own. Yeah. So the support, it was like we were a big family, but not with the pressure of a, a family would have done if we would have been in a family context probably. 

Gwen: And I also think, yeah, as you were saying, talking about how the children were developing and their behaviors as you say, was helpful. And at the same time you were always saying we’re not comparing. Right. Yeah. It was done in such a nurturing and friendly way and, and, and just emphasizing that every child is different.

Every child develops at their own pace and you know, in some context parents are kind of competing with each other and they compare the children and then they get anxious and you were doing everything you could, Ayelet, to sort of dispel that, immediately, and make sure everyone was observing their child as its own, as, as an entity in and of itself without ever thinking, oh, Joe’s kid of doing that or…

And starting with yourself because, so yes, you were mentioning earlier, your little boy took his time to start walking and, and I remember one session where you openly talked about that and you were saying, yeah, you know, he’s, he’s not walking. And that’s, that’s kind of hard because I was expecting it to happen earlier, but I know that he will do it in his own time. And he did. Right. So, yeah,

Manuela: For every child is different and this is incredibly special and what a parent should do is watch it, watching the progress and uh, and to try to guide them but not to teach – another thing. Yeah. Try to guide without, without teaching. Because I think that this is the main point I’ve learned. 

Ayelet: I think too, like when, when we’re grown up, we don’t, unless we’ve studied child development deeply, you know, in depth than how, when was the last time you played with a baby?

Probably since when you were a baby, you know that it’s a very, as you were saying it, it takes this reframe to feel like, oh, okay, well this is, I can follow what my child is doing and then I can support her or him by, by following what he’s interested in or what he or she is doing.

So I’m curious if either of you remember what, like if there are specific activities or specific moments or songs or things that we did that stand out to you as like an example of how we did that?

Gwen: I mean the, uh, the one thing that always stuck with me and the way you conducted your sessions was always you reminded us, well, try to avoid a sort of flash card approach to “what’s this, what’s that” hold up a picture of a cat. The cat goes, “meow, and the dog goes woof, and yeah, and what is it?

Ayelet: Right! That’s what we think of as teaching. 

Gwen: So to me that was, I think that was one of the first things you came up with. And I thought, yeah, of course! And, and then just giving the child different options. So if you had a basket full of objects, you would, instead of just taking one yourself and giving it to the child, you would offer the basket to the child and give them time. You would say, wait, wait, let’s just see what, what she or he decides to choose, what object they would like to play with.

And then you were saying, okay, so giving lots of different options around it. Say, so what is it, see it, is it round? Does it make a noise? What kind of color is it? What do you like about it? What would you like to do with it? Do you want to put it near your nose? Do you want to hold it this way? Do you want to put it on the ground?

And, and I’m, I’m doing like a completely, you know, it’s, I’m going a lot faster than you ever would have, but it’s just like between everything I have said, you would just pause and wait and observe and yeah, for, for, for first time parents, I think most first time parents, that’s quite hard. But you learn the value of that and you discover your child as they are, not as a reflection of yourself or as well as how you expect, perceive them to be.

Ayelet: Yeah. But I also remember for instance, this is such a good example because Gwen, when I met you, you, you are this like warm, loving person who is quiet and gentle and your daughter was a spit fire and amazing and had all this amazing energy. And I mean I recall they, I don’t think they were sitting up yet, they were so little.

And she, she would lean in and she would grab the ball and then, and then push it away and, and we had essentially a ballgame with these teeny tiny little babies and they would sort of take turns and sort of move it back and forth.

And she wanted that ball – and she was – her personality was showing through from such an early age. And, and this was, I think the first time that we all witnessed this. Yes. And you were like, yeah, this is intense, and really hard for me cause she’s not like me!

Gwen: Yeah, I remember that so well, she sort of tucked her chin in and her eyes were like daggers and you’re right. I couldn’t even see how fast that well, but I could sense, oh my goodness, I don’t think I would have ever done something like that when I was a small child and, and it’s true.

In one of the sessions I was saying, one of my biggest challenges is realizing how different my daughter is to me. You know, and you go through pregnancy, just imagining a mini me of yourself popping out. And no! Of course not. Right. Yeah, they are. They’re sentient beings. Yeah. And you just seemed to go with it and that’s, I find that so hard. Just go with it. 

Manuela: And I have to say, also the music, the music. Instruments, different instruments to use and not only instruments, everything. Anything that was making a sound and then the voice, and then putting words together in songs. And that was amazing. I can see today after five years, how powerful was that for them? For them.

Because this music is so present in Sofia’s life so much, so much in the she, today I think she’s able to invent songs everyday she invents songs and that she remembers that is amazing. And she has these huge links with the music. I think because she was born like this, no we did it. You, you, you let her in this journey, you let them in, in, in this journey.

Gwen: Sounds, words, and rhythm. You were very… I think to me it was the just getting them to feel rhythm. And I Ariana lost dancing so much and from what I understand, you know, pretty good at it and I think that sense of rhythm comes through a lot. But you were teaching it to us in ways that was so simple to just do at home.

Manuela: To repeat it.

Gwen: To me as I’ve said, it was using simple materials in simple ways that you can easily do at home without a lot of paraphernalia. And that was reassuring, too. You don’t have to go out and buy all these things.

Manuela: I remember one thing, the toilet paper – the toilet paper – that was amazing. I never thought about it. I never thought about it. Then I saw you putting things in the shape. Um, let’s see which shape can go through and which shape can’t.

So because they are too big or because they are too small, that was amazing and Sofia could spend hours in that. And the same I did with Alice. Even if you weren’t here! So I taught Alice to use the different things in the home. Yes. Things. Uh, It was a way to see the way to see things in your house so you can use everything.

Gwen: In the end, that’s all they want to play with. Yes. We have more toys than, I don’t want to admit – thanks to grandparents, amongst other things.

Manuela: Yes, that’s the truth.

Gwen: But they don’t want to play with most of their toys. They just love the things that you use in the home. Yeah. And they learn so much from those things. 

Ayelet: Right. And it’s up to us to figure out, not only are they the things that we’re using, but they are also very powerful learning materials. Just as powerful as the beautiful toys that you have in your home. They… The developmental value of that fancy wooden drum and the kitchen with shelves that you have in your, you know, playroom is the same as the shelves in your kitchen.

Oh, I was going to ask, I think you consider yourself quite musical, Manuela you, I mean you come from, you’ve used music for many years and you’ve also had much music in your life as well. But did you, what do you think there were certainly people in our group who did not consider themselves musical and I mean obviously you can’t speak to that personally, but what were some of the observations that you had about that? And do you think that we were able to show how music was a powerful tool even to people who are not necessarily confident in their own use of music? 

Gwen: I mean, that’s, I, yeah, definitely I can vouch this, one of the lovely ladies in the group that is still a very, very good friend of us, Jenny, said to me at the start, you know, I never thought I could ever sing.

And anyone who thinks they can’t sing probably isn’t very confident seeing with their child. And I think you’ve transformed that for her – to the extent that now she sings in the choirs at schools! And when she told me, I went, “you’re singing in a choir?!”

I watched her last night! It was awesome! Yes! So yeah, as I said you gave moms so much confidence. I think that really is key. That’s what I was liking at the start. That is the key to so much of what parenting is, you know, and accepting you’re not perfect.

Manuela: We did not feel alone in this journey. This is what it was. And this is what Gwen and I, because we talked about it with the second child and yeah, we felt a little bit alone. That was, even if, no, we weren’t alone at all. But yeah, there was, um, very, very powerful way to guide our, our children and ourself in this journey – and ourself as well. 

Gwen: Right. Because parenting is a journey of self discovery. 

Manuela: My God, yes.

Gwen: A wonderful journey of self-discovery, I have to say, but…

Manuela: And still… challenging! Very challenging… new challenge. New challenge every day.

Ayelet: Yeah. Yup!

So if you could summarize, what would be some of the things that learning about these things, even taking out the, if you can, the community component, the, just the informational piece of what, what you can do with your child and how you can do it. What did that knowledge give to you?

Cause that really is what, I mean, the books, the Learn With Less® curriculum. The books that I have, that’s, that’s what we did with our children, like that’s… I just wrote it down and put it into form. So for you guys, what, what has the value of that been? That information, that knowledge? In five words or less?!

Gwen: I think, you know, I think it kind of overlaps with things I’ve already said it’s, yeah, cause you, you have your four pillars, right? I’ve, I’ve read the book. So, how can I say it in my own words? Yeah. So I think it’s just, to me it really is just taking simple things, mostly that you can find in your own home or just outside on the streets, in the parks, wherever you are, and using the things that you encounter in different ways, exploring them with your child and just guiding your child to explore those things.

And also I think – and in daily routines, just how to use the things you have to get through every day in creative ways that help you connect with your child, that make them fun and that that helps them learn. Just, just as a consequence of that, they just learn through, through those simple things and not feeling you have to, you have to be perfect or have to be better each time.

Accepting that it’s a completely rocky road and, and I think yeah because I use two languages with my child. And I loved the ways that you have suggested that you can transpose things that you learn in one language as a parent and transpose those to another language, because I was a little bit stuck on that and I’m thinking, well, actually yeah, you know, just make things up as you go.

Use, use the words that you know in your own language and fit them in to what you’ve learned in the other language and, and that will make the materials that you gave us. You can make them more personal by doing that, for example. 

Ayelet: Yeah, that’s a great example.

Manuela: I think that the most valuable thing you gave us was really many different ways to connect with your child. So to discover how even very, very, very simple things. So I don’t know, uh, probably, thanks to you today. I, when I’m in trouble, which I very often… When I’m in trouble, what I do is it not the first thing that passes in my mind that is what I, what I would do – but is, thanks to what we have learned together… Today, I try to wait. That is very, very difficult. Very difficult. I try to wait, I try to hold, no? And uh, to try to find a way to connect, a different way.

So I, I take situation and I try to put the situation upside down and to see the situation from a different perspective. This is what… I wouldn’t have done it before, for sure. But now I can see that if we do that, and we, we see different, the situation in a different perspective, then we have many other chances to connect. So this is the most valuable things I’ve learned. I think that is what your work gives. 

Gwen: The way I say it is to meet your child where they are at. Acknowledge where they are. And that’s just like 80% of the, the whole journey. Yeah. 

Ayelet: Yes, exactly. I think, yeah, when it comes to discipline, when it comes to learning, when it comes to a diaper change or like to a meal, eating all of it. Yeah. And it is such a simple concept, but it is such a hard thing to do in reality. 

Manuela: Oh yes, it’s simple to say, difficult to do.

Ayelet: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what would you say to someone who’s thinking about learning more about learning with less, or what we do here at Learn With Less®?

Gwen: It’s a no brainer. [laughter] of course, of course I would, and I’m heavily biased, but I think it’s, say, It’s such an accessible approach in every way, including financially but.. It is really. Yeah. It’s, it’s so encouraging and reassuring because it makes you realize that you can thread this into every single aspect of your day with your child. That’s what makes it so simple and accessible and exploitable however you want to describe it.

Ayelet: Right. Cause it’s also like we’re not selling, I’m not selling a thing. There is no like prescribed content that you have to go out and buy a specific set of tools. You already have the tools they’re literally in your bathroom or your kitchen, it’s already attached to you. 

Manuela: You need to find out. Yes. It’s a way to learn how to see – how to see.

Gwen: And because you were able, because you know, I’ve, I’ve read so many books and how much of them do I remember? Probably not very much. So the great thing about Learn With Less® is even if you don’t remember the detail, because you’re always sort of bring people back to these main areas with talking, playing, singing, etc.

That’s all you need to remember and say, what can I do now? It’s like you don’t need to remember the words of some sophisticated song. Right. Just sing! Just make it up! Just sing one word. And it works. Yeah. And it’s personal.

Ayelet: Yeah, it’s totally individual.

Gwen: And therefore it is perfectly suited to you and your child in that moment. 

Ayelet: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. 

Manuela: It’s so touchable. Yeah. In a way, you really, it’s immediately, you really found out that you can really touch this progress… I don’t know.

Ayelet: It’s also really interesting because I think for people to know, like you’re Italian and you grew up in France and Belgium and now everyone lives in London and everyone who was in our group also was from lots of different places. There were, there were Brits and Australians and Canadians and the Singaporeans, everyone and everyone could utilize this information because the truth is we all are actually human.

Gwen: It’s universal.

Manuela: It’s not cultural.

Ayelet: It’s not cultural!

Manuela: It’s not cultural.

Ayelet: Yeah. I mean the culture is how we value these things.

Manuela: Exactly. Exactly. This is what I was saying. 

Ayelet: Well, I think too, I get asked a lot of times, oh, well, is, is this based on, is this like a Montessori thing or is this a RIE thing? Or, or something like that. And I’m like, no, that’s a particular parenting philosophy. This is not a parenting philosophy.

It, it incorporates certain philosophies of minimalism or simplicity or how we learn, how we grow, but it incorporates the information that we know about how humans learn – and then gives you the tools to use so that you can do that in your own way, however you want to do. Sure you can use Montessori materials to get that done, but you can also use the toilet paper roll. 

Manuela: Exactly!

Gwen: I think we’re just so grateful and we feel so lucky to have encountered your work on our journey and, and you have delivered it so much generosity. 

Ayelet: In fact, you helped make it, you were the inspiration. And you! And your sister. Yeah. 

Alice: Yeah!

Gwen: So thank you.

Ayelet: Thank you. On that note, we’ll all go cry. 

The post Simple Ways to Connect With Your Baby or Toddler appeared first on Learn With Less.

On this episode of the Learn With Less® podcast, we sat down with Val Pitaluga, of JoyCo Therapy, and Accessible Vacations. Val is a multi-passionate mom, wife, speech-language pathologist, and business owner. Her personal experiences as an immigrant and English language learner fuel both her professional work and personal advocacy efforts. Val has a background in Early Childhood Education and extensive experience working with children of all ages. Val’s husband is a quadriplegic after sustaining a spinal cord injury in a car accident over a decade ago. They met post-injury and bonded over their many shared interests, chief among them travel. They now share about parenting and traveling with a disability via their non-profit, Accessible Vacations. 

We discussed:

• Val’s various social identities, and the privileges she holds leading up to the birth of her second son
• What can happen in a hospital when the system does not prioritize birthing people and their families
• Definitions of ableism, the ABC’s of Safe Sleep, and evidence-based practices around birth
• Val’s top tips for advocating for what you need before, during, and after your birth
• Why Val advocates for community-based support and leaning on practices of gratitude

Accessible Vacations

American Academy of Pediatrics ABC’s of Sleep

JoyCo Therapy

Racial and Ethnic Disparities in Pregnancy Related Deaths (CDC)

Evidence Based Birth

Learn With Less® Bundle: get our favorite infant and toddler development resources (and save 70%)! Discover how to support and connect with your tiny human, without having to buy a single toy.

Val Website / Facebook / Instagram / YouTube

Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest

Ayelet: Welcome back to Learn With Less®! Today, I have Val Pitaluga joining me. Val is a multi passionate mom, wife, speech-language pathologist, and business owner. Her personal experiences as an immigrant and English language learner fuel both her professional work and her personal advocacy efforts. Val has a background in early childhood education and extensive experience working with children of all ages.

Val’s husband is a quadriplegic after sustaining a spinal cord injury in an accident over a decade ago. They met post-injury and bonded over their many shared interests – chief among them, travel. They now share about parenting and travel with a disability via their nonprofit, Accessible Vacations. Val, thank you so much for joining me today on Learn With Less®… we have connected over social media in a variety of speech-language pathology and interest-focused groups, and I’m just so glad to be in community with you. You shared recently your birth story, and I just found it so compelling on so many levels, and I think it’s so important to share experiences like this in general. And so much of what we do here at Learn With Less® is focused on community and education, and the simplicity of what we all would like to be focusing on as far as early parenthood and early childhood. I just thought that this was a great story to share, and I’m so grateful to you that you have decided to join me today.

Val: Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for allowing me to share my story on your platform.

Ayelet: Well, so just to sort of get started, so now you have several children. How many kiddos do you have?

Val: I have two children.

Ayelet: Two kiddos. Yeah, the most recent addition to your family is this tiny human that you have attached to you right now, as we record and he is…

Val: Six weeks old? Yeah!

Ayelet: Six weeks old, amazing. So let’s just sort of get right into it. I’d love for you to share a little bit about what happened with your birth, what is happening, how you are now and that’s sort of the trajectory of the conversation that we’ll have today. But there’s a lot to unpack, because of your own social identities and the identities your family holds. So go for it. Let’s hear… Let’s hear it!

Val: Yeah. So I think in the post that we bonded over and where this idea started, for having me come on your podcast, was just highlighting, like you said, my birth story. So from the lens of how many privileges I held when I came to my second birth, my most recent birth. And so some of those privileges, and I think you you might read a piece of it, and you’re welcome to, but just off the top of my head some of those privileges were I did have a healthy, full term live birth, before the pandemic. So I had that experience of having my husband at every doctor’s appointment and having visitors at the hospital and all those pre-pandemic things. You mentioned, I’m an immigrant and an English language learner. I’ve been told I speak English with native-like proficiency. And so I did speak English when I arrived at the hospital. I am Latina, but I know that I don’t run a higher risk of having a severe maternal morbidity or dying, basically, while giving birth because of the color of my skin.

And still, my birth experience left so much to be desired. And I’m a healthcare professional, you know, so I just felt that had I not had all these stacked privileges, my birth experience had the potential to be, frankly, traumatizing. And you know, of course, part of that had to do with, as I mentioned in the passage, that I had a precipitous labor and delivery, right, so my son decided it was go time and it was like he was on a rocket launcher. It was a whole two and a half hours from I’m pretty sure that’s the contraction to having my baby on my chest.

Ayelet:  I had the same experience with my second, as well. Yeah.

Val: It was wild. My mom, who stayed with my firstborn son, so our older son, Joseph, he will be three next month. And my mom had plans to stay with him. And of course, you know, as these things happen, it happened in the middle of the night, 11pm was when I had, 1130 lives and I had my first contractions. So my mom, who was coming to stay with him, was coming from Miami, and we live in Fort Lauderdale. So it’s about a 40 minute drive. And I mean, if she had been 10 minutes later, we would have just delivered him in the parking lot.

But yeah, so we arrived, like I said, I was crowning. My husband and I both speak English, we were able to very clearly say like, Hey, I’m crowning. I’m in active labor like, get me a room and part of it is probably hospital protocol. Part of it was probably not realizing the urgency of it. They had me sitting in the admission bay, like, nurses bay, asking me all kinds of questions. How many weeks pregnant are you, who’s your doctor but somehow forgot some like really critical questions, like what’s your group B strep status, like are you positive? So anyway, I’m sitting there in excruciating pain answering this, these questions like, Pitaluga, P-I-T-A-L-U-G-A!

Ayelet: Between contractions right? Oh my gosh.

Val: Right! And so, my water broke, and finally I got kind of annoyed, and I was like, Okay, my water broke and I need a room, now. And so they’re like, okay, take her to room seven. So I go to room seven, and I’m begging for an epidural, which, you know, in hindsight, full body sweat, shaking uncontrollably. There’s no way they were gonna get a needle in my back at that time, but I’m begging for an epidural. The nurse is like, no, we can’t. My husband is an amazing, amazing advocate. After our second labor, I joked with him that he should become a doula, he should be like the wheelchair doula.

Ayelet: Oh, my gosh, that’d be amazing!

Val: I’ve already branded it for him. It’s so easy. For some reason. He won’t take me up on it.

Ayelet: We’ll see!

Val: Right? So he was advocating for me. So like, for example, one of the things that really helped me with my first labor was having a mirror so I could, I’m very, like goal driven. So I could see my son’s head and I was like, Oh, my gosh, I want to meet this human so bad. Let me push harder. So he asked for a mirror and it was just like, the nurse gave him this confused look, and was like… a mirror? And we were like, okay, nevermind, moving right along. And then I think, like, the most dehumanizing moment of my birthing experience was when about an hour and a half after I delivered, the nurse walked me to the bathroom, barefoot, gave me a Peri bottle, and said, here you go. And then she was knocking and I was like, you know, there’s a lot of postpartum waste. I’m working on, on cleaning by myself barefoot in this tiny bathroom. No, I’m not done yet. So yeah, that was probably the most dehumanizing part of it for me.

Ayelet: I don’t know, because of my own experiences, because with my first, I was living in Europe, my husband and I gave birth – I gave birth, excuse me, I gave birth to my first while we were living in London, and, and we had a hospital birth. And it took a very, very long time. And I ended up having an epidural, and a forceps delivery. And afterwards, I was, you know, I was not in any position to get up off of my back and, and go clean up. So I had people helping me do that. My second, we were back here in the US, and I also had a precipitous labor, and we did not make it to the hospital. We actually were planning potentially a home birth, we wanted sort of like all the options open to us. But so, I certainly was, you know, cleaning up myself, but in the luxury and comfort of my own shower, and, you know, a very different birthing experience, and a bit like, you know, minimal tearing, and all of those kinds of things. So I honestly, like, I don’t know, what, what is the standard of care? What did you experience with your first birth after… after giving birth?

Val: Yeah, so, it’s interesting, we have so many similarities. So I wasn’t in Europe, but I was in Ohio. So my second birth, obviously, happening in Florida. And my first birth was in Ohio, and I gave birth in a hospital called Dublin Methodist Hospital. And it is a newer hospital. So that was another privilege. Of course, they are very, very EBP-focused. They, for example, don’t use an overhead system at all, because they just want moms to be feeling peaceful and relaxed and not, you know, with all this sensory stimulation. And so it’s, it was a very calming and soothing hospital to begin with. But then also the standard of care was great. So I did have an epidural with my first…

Ayelet: Oh, sorry, just to go back. You said EBP, which which stands for evidence-based practice for anyone who’s listening, who’s not a speech-language pathologist or in the health, allied healthcare professions, yes. Sorry, please go ahead.

Val: That’s right. I’m sorry about that. But, yeah, so they’re very aligned with that what research says is best for mom and for baby. And yeah, I mean, like, that’s a privilege most people don’t have…

Ayelet: Right, which is bizarre… and reality.

Val: … and unfair. But also Yes, reality. So I did have an epidural with my son and I am so lucky, I have super easy births. And so after I delivered my son, the epidural was kicking off and I was able to walk to the bathroom. But my nurse held my hand and was actually kind of shocked that I was walking, she was like, you need to slow down! So she held my hand walked me there, obviously wearing, wearing my own sandals that I brought in, my flip flops that I brought in from home, and kind of walked me through the whole process of you know, icing the area, care and you know, the first 24 hours are crucial for swelling, and those are things so those are more things that I had to advocate for. I had to ask for an ice pack after delivering a seven pound baby with no pain management, you know and… with or without, you know, the swelling is gonna be brutal. So, so again, I had that experience with my first nurse, Wendy, that I will never forget.

Ayelet: I love that you even remember her, like she you know her name and everything you know?

Val: Yes, yes.

Ayelet: She partnered with you. She was present, she was part of the experience. Whereas the second one, yeah, very different.

Val: Absolutely. Yeah. And she, I mean, she honored everything about our family. I remember distinctly her, looking at… so my firstborn son was born on a Monday, she – I’m gonna get all emotional, now. She looked at us and said it had been a hard weekend on L&D, on the labor and delivery unit. And she really needed our, our birth, our family that morning, and she told my husband, he was the most like committed and involved dad I’ve seen in the delivery room in years, and she just like, thanked us for giving her a positive morning after a very difficult weekend.

Ayelet: Amazing. Yeah, that’s, I mean, again, you’re partnering with your healthcare team. That’s, that’s the idea, right? Like this is this is what quote unquote, should be happening. Alright. So back to number two. So you’re, you’re you’re told to go into this bathroom, you don’t have any shoes on, you’re not – it sounds like you weren’t given any time to like, sort of prep, you weren’t really given any materials to to help you. No icepack. No nothing, no instructions, no reminders of how how this is supposed to go? And then you’re told, “Are you done yet?” Right. You’re hurried out of the experience trying to do your best. Where is baby at this point?

Val: So, baby was still having his neonatal care. So he was being weighed and I think he was struggling still with some temperature issues that I think he might have been under the warmer. So he was he was in the care of – they had at that hospital, two nurses, so one for the mom and one for the baby. So he was with the baby nurse.

Ayelet: Okay, and this is relevant, because the next part of your story is about your husband’s experience.

Val: Right. So, I shared how it was dehumanizing for me. My husband, you also mentioned in the intro is a quadriplegic. So quadriplegic, for anyone who’s listening who may not be familiar with the term or may have this stereotypical kind of “Christopher Reeve” idea in their mind. Most people think they can’t move anything at all. People might think they’re event dependent, they’re always in a power chair, but that’s not really the case. Quadriplegic just means all four limbs are affected. So my husband does have weaker hands, he cannot perform fine motor movements. So things like gripping a pencil or a zipper or opening a can of coke or pop (depending on where you live). And so he, he struggles with fine motor movements, but he’s still very independent. He’s, you know, a young guy who was an athlete before his car accident. He’s still an athlete, he plays wheelchair rugby, and quite well, he has tried out for the Paralympics in the past. And he, you know, he’s in a manual chair, like I mentioned, he’s involved in our all of our parenting is mutual. He’s just a regular dad, that parents from a wheelchair. So all that to say he’s very capable, and…

Ayelet: And the healthcare professionals can see that he’s maneuvering his own chair. He’s quite, you know, clearly quite strong. He is a totally independent person, please continue.

Val: 100%. Yes, he wheeled himself into the hospital, as he does everywhere. And then, he was not… and this was just the beginning of the saga, he was not offered to hold our son after our son was born. And it wasn’t until, obviously, I was in a funny state, obviously, having just delivered – not funny I was in a postpartum state, to call it accurately what it is. So it took me three hours to realize that Oh, my goodness, you haven’t held Julian! So, I have the picture. It’s time stamped 5am, and our son was born at 2am. And that was only because I said, here, hold your baby. But at no point did the baby nurse or the mom nurse, or the attending physician who was also unfamiliar to me, nobody offered my husband to hold the baby, which I think we’ve talked about is rooted in ableism. And that is, that is a discussion that can probably take up a full episode of on its own. But very quickly, ableism is just discrimination on the basis of somebody’s disability status, and it’s rooted in the false belief that able bodies are somehow better than disabled bodies, and they’re not. They’re just different.

So my husband, again, comparing it to our first birth, he was immediately like any able bodied father and support person in the delivery room, was immediately given the baby to hold, bonded over him. I, again, I distinctly remember, Joseph was born and he was crying and letting everybody know that he had arrived. And my husband put on like a karaoke background of the song that he had sang to him on my whole pregnancy. And Joseph immediately stopped crying. So and of course, I was bawling when that happened, but But yeah, so all that to say my husband’s perfectly capable, and he was just denied that very special moment. And my husband is a super peacekeeper, he is, you know, he’s always, “Why are you stirring the pot? Or, you know, like, it’s okay. It’s not a big deal.” So he wouldn’t have said anything for sure. But I know that that’s something that was important to him – as it should be. And it was denied by the healthcare staff, or delayed for three hours.

Ayelet: Right. And ultimately, it was you who handed the baby to him?

Val: Yes, absolutely. And you know, and I think part of the real problem I had, too, is that at no point, did anybody take a step back and say, oh, wow, that was a wild birth and delivery, we’re acknowledging that and here are the things we could have done better. And we’re sorry that we missed the mark… because that alone would have meant a lot to me. If they had said, wow, you know, we should have asked your Group B strep status when you came in, or we should have given your husband the baby. And, you know, we’re sorry, it was a lapse in judgment. Because everybody has a lapse in judgment at some point!

Ayelet: Right? Well, and that just, acknowledgement marks at least one step of learning and hopefully doing better the next time around. That’s the whole right. But there was not that, right. So that’s why what Val is saying is so important, right? That is literally the first, tiniest thing that you can do. So what… were there other people in the room when you finally were able like to realize that your husband had not held the baby? Like, were there other people there who realized and saw that? Or was it just the two of you?

Val: Yeah, both of the nurses were in and out at that point. And, you know, I just think that they, I think with… so you mentioned, I’m multi passionate, I’m passionate about dismantling ableism and racism and all these other isms, as you know, but I think the problem with a lot of isms is that people don’t even realize they harbor them. And they’re not, like we said, willing to acknowledge them. And so, I think that they maybe were at a point where they didn’t even realize that they were being ableist, that they were denying this right to a father because of their perceptions of his abilities. So they thought nothing of it. Honestly, that’s, that’s my best guess. I don’t know. Maybe they’ll listen to this podcast and say, Oh, yeah, we did. We did realize it or not, but yeah, that’s all I can think of is maybe they don’t even know.

Ayelet: And there, it sounds like there wasn’t necessarily any kind of reaction when, when you were like, Oh, my gosh, you haven’t held our son. And if there was, it was so insignificant that it did not warrant any kind of realization that someone had. Yeah, yeah.

Val: No, it was definitely business as usual. I mean, yes.

Ayelet: Fascinating, hmmm. And all right. So continuing on, you had this experience with ableism with your husband. It sounds like there were, you know, moment after moment of what we call micro-aggressions. Right, these tiny little, quote unquote, I’m air-quoting myself when I say “tiny little”, because they all add up, and they all have an effect on everyone involved. And you’re both experiencing these things. Okay. So now you’re, I’m looking, I’m looking at your, your beautiful passage and the story. So you said you asked to be discharged less than 48 hours after you arrived. And that was because, number one, your husband was not offered to hold his newborn son at any time during the birth or aftermath. It was three hours… and then you were transferred to a room right? And now, what room was this? They can see who you are, who your husband is, what needs he has, what kind of room is this?

Val: Yeah, so and I actually so it was a not not a wheelchair accessible room. So this is a hospital in the United States where we have the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. So, by law, they have to have a wheelchair accessible room. And so, I mentioned that I have very easy births, and I’m very lucky to say that. I feel very, very lucky, I know that’s not the case for many people. But because I was feeling empowered by just having cleaned up my own waste by myself, I actually walked upstairs to the fourth floor recovery room, and denied the the hospital chair, wheelchair that they offered to transport me in. And so as I was walking up and out of the elevator I, because I’m married to a quadriplegic, I make a habit of making a mental note of accessibility features, I saw a wheelchair symbol on a doorframe in a patient room. So I thought, Oh, that must be the wheelchair accessible room – one of them, at least, on this unit, and proceeded to my room, room nine, and found out that it was not a wheelchair accessible room.

So, my husband again being the peacekeeper that he is, finds out that he cannot shower in that room. It’s not that, that bathroom is not… he can make it happen. The transfer from the wheelchair to the shower chair, the opening was not wide enough. And it just, it was not going to happen. And so he ended up going home, having to leave the hospital to come to our home, to use the restroom that night, our first night there and then came back, of course, to stay the night with me and with Julian, and so the following day, because I knew the plan wasn’t for me to be discharged before 48 hours, I asked my nurse, could we please be transferred to the wheelchair accessible room on this floor?

Well, imagine my surprise when she tells me, “No, we don’t have a wheelchair accessible room.” What? record scratch I was like, hold on. First of all, it’s, it’s law. And second of all, I walked past it on my way in, so I know you have one. So I told her, I said, could you please make sure because I’m like 99.9% certain that you do have one. So then in comes a couple of hours later, the nurse leader, apologizes, and she says I’m very sorry, I heard that you were given wrong information. We do of course have a wheelchair accessible room on this unit. But we’re still not going to transfer you to it because there’s somebody else in it.

Ayelet: … who… presumably did not need it for the for the reasons that you need it.

Val: Right. Presumably.

Ayelet: We don’t, we don’t know that, necessarily.

Val: No, we don’t know for sure, really. But, although I feel like she would have mentioned that, despite privacy laws that are in effect, she probably would have mentioned this person also has a legitimate medical need for it, which was not mentioned. So I just presumed that that’s the case. But yeah, so I was told it exists. And yes, we see that you have a legitimate medical need for it. And we’re sorry, I told her that my husband had to leave the previous night. I was told sorry for that. But also, there’s nothing we’re going to do about that. And so then at that point, I was like, Okay, well, then please discharge me because my husband deserves the dignity of using a bathroom that works. And we’re just kind of hanging out here and I’m feeling great. I’m obviously being left to my own devices, anyway. So can I please just go home. And so we did a couple of hours after that conversation with the nurse lead.

Ayelet: Let me just reiterate to people who are listening, like we’re talking about Val’s husband needing to go to the bathroom, right? We’re talking about necessarily showering, although that that is a basic thing that he should be able to do, because anybody else who is able bodied would be able to do that. However, we are literally just talking about relieving yourself. And like, being in a room with your family and supporting your partner when a new baby comes, and you cannot just simply use the bathroom. Literally cannot do it. Because just not a possibility. Okay, so there’s one more piece of this that I think is really interesting, and I think warrants, you know, part of telling the story, was this last part here about the time like was this… Did this happen the first night after your son was born?

Val: I really can’t recall…

Ayelet: Right, it doesn’t really matter, regardless.

Val: But yeah, I think it was towards the end, I want to say it was towards the end of our stay. Yeah, it was our last nurse that we had. So the last, like, 12 hours that we were there because I know she was the last nurse that we had who did… what we’ll talk about.

Ayelet: Well, and I mean, even just what you just said there is very important information because this is – we’re not just talking about one shift one set of medical professionals, one nurse, one set of nurses, one doctor. Like, this is consistent throughout the experience. This is clear that there is a lack of training at this particular hospital as opposed to the training that was experienced by hospital staff at the hospital where your first birth occurred, right? I mean, this is like a systemic issue in and of itself within the system of this particular hospital that there is a lack of training, awareness and ability to see what is happening… and I’m giggling because Val is just making the cutest faces to her tiny baby.

Alright, so this last part is about sort of a backstory about the ABCs of Sleep. So the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that all newborns sleep A, alone; B, on their back; and C, in the crib to avoid SIDS or sudden infant death syndrome. This is the AAP, the American Academy of Pediatrics, this is a, this has been standard practice for a number of years after an increase of SIDS deaths in like the 80s and 90s with young children. There’s a whole lot of stuff to be said all about, you know co-sleeping, bed sharing. You know, the ABCs of safe sleep obviously is there to prevent Sudden Infant Death which nobody wants. And there are cultural implications with regard to this, right? Because there are many countries and many places, many cultures wherein bed sharing co sleeping is the standard practice and ABCs of Safe Sleep does sort of negate this norm, and disregards that cultural informed practice and culturally informed care.

So, regardless of where you, listener, fall, in your own practice, on your own standard, what your experience personally has been, I think it’s really important to, number one, name the fact that the ABCs of Sleep obviously was created to help families do things to lessen the probability of sudden infant death syndrome. And also, there are so many different ways that people sleep next to their children. And the idea that there’s this dichotomy of a “right way” to sleep or a “wrong way” to sleep goes against and just negates the idea that there are many ways to do a certain thing, and feeds into this idea of such a divisive worlds in terms of early parenthood, right?

Where how we choose to put our babies to sleep, how we feed our babies, how how we do all of that, how we diaper. or like all of these things that feel – especially in like the American sort of way – or like you’re, you’re this kind of mom or that kind of Mom, you’re a cloth diapering mom or disposable diapering mom. And the reality is like, there are so many things that people do because of where they come from, because of the identities they hold, because of what is working or not working for their own family. And the idea that there is a right and wrong way to do things… It’s, I think we have to acknowledge that there’s a gray area. And yeah, that’s, that’s what I’ll say about that. So with all of that said, let’s hear what happened within your experience, though.

Val: Yes. And if I could just add, from my multi passionate point of view, a couple more things about the ABCs of safe sleep, even within the United States where that is standard practice, or at least to my understanding, it is that every birthing hospital, we fail to acknowledge the fact that within our country, there are women and families who may not have a crib, yes, we are not doing anything. We are not providing every parent with a crib when they’re being discharged from the hospital. I think there is a country I want to say Sweden, but I’m probably wrong that provides…

Ayelet: Finland Yeah, the baby box.

Val: …that provides baby boxes. And so it’s kind of the same idea that the baby sleeps in their own sleeping safe sleeping space. But you know, at least there are some countries that are making sure that you have this arbitrarily selected sleeping space, right. But we don’t do that. And so even within the United States, we are failing to acknowledge the fact that not every family has the privilege of having a crib or bassinet or some kind of, what we’ve deemed a safe sleeping surface. So there’s that. And then also, it also negates biology, right.

So when a mom is very, very tired and sleep deprived, I might really, really, really, really want to get this baby into his crib. But oh, my goodness, my eyelids are winning. And oh, no, now I’m sleeping with my baby. And does that make me the worst parent on earth? Does that mean I want my baby to die? Of course not. So I just wanted to add those two things. But anyway, we so we had been told, of course, that this is an American hospital and that they’re observing the ABCs of Safe Sleep, we were told what the ABCs of Safe Sleep were. And we were told before warned that any time that a nurse or any kind of medical professional would walk in, if we happen to be asleep with the baby, that they would just gently wake us up and let us know that they would be placing the baby in the bassinet. And you know, that was standard practice sure, for our first birth as well. So it was nothing new. We could agree to that, fair enough, great.

But the real problem came with the fact that I actually happened to biologically let my eyelids win, way more often than my husband does. And I had been quote unquote, “walked in on” asleep with Julian several times during our stay. And of course, I was only lightly asleep. I’m a light sleeper to begin with anyway, but you know, I would kind of gradually answer Yeah, no, I don’t need pain medicine, or Yeah, he had his newborn hearing screening or whatever. But I was still very visibly asleep with the baby in my arms. And the fact of the matter is that he was never taken from me to be placed in his bassinet. I can’t tell you if that standard practice, it certainly seen that way just based on the amount of times it happened, but…

Ayelet: Right, basically, they did not do what they said they were going to do.

Val: Exactly. Right, right. They made a big to do about you know, we’re gonna have to do this. And so they had every right if they had done it, I wouldn’t have expected it. I was kind of actually, in my head, thinking, boy, they haven’t done that a single time and That’s odd, because they had told me they were going to do this. But anyway, I’m not going to tell them to take my baby from me! So I just kind of chalked it up to chance… until, within the last 12 hours that we were there, the nurse came in and my husband happens to be asleep, or I don’t, I’m not sure if he was asleep, or he just had his eyes closed, but either way, appeared to be asleep with the baby. And the reaction was completely different. It was Sir! You know, these are the ABCs of Safe Sleep, and we’ve gone over them and I’m going to take the baby and I’m putting him in the bassinet.

Ayelet: Not… wow. So intense! Like, not even like, excuse me, sir. As you know, we’re going to have to do this. I’m going to take the baby now. Here we go. Right. like totally different tone, right? totally different. Like, oh, excuse me. Sorry to wake you. And…. right?

Val: Yes, exactly, exactly.

Ayelet: Admonishing him.

Val: Yes. And so to me, that basically… To me, I think that’s still rooted in ableism. And this heightened fear that because my husband is disabled, that he would be more likely to, you know, either smother our child or drop him or whatever, have any kind of adverse impact on him by sleeping with him, than I would. And, you know, as a side note, even if that wasn’t rooted in ableism, because, you know, I’m sure many people will listen to this and say, maybe you’re reaching, maybe everything isn’t an instance of ableism. And I respect that, I can, I can see that, you know, maybe some people think, your, your sensitivities are heightened.

But I just want to say, as a child of a single mother, that even just reinforces the fact that fathers have a different role to fill or parent differently than mothers. And I think that that’s really damaging to the family structure and society, because we do that unconsciously. So often, to fathers specifically, that we think that that, you know, they need to be different than mothers. And, and I just, I don’t know, I think you worded it beautifully about, there is no one right way to parent. And so you know, maybe the father does want to be gentle or wants to be the gentler disciplining parent, or maybe he doesn’t want to be the one to sleep with the baby, or whatever…

Ayelet: Or may just be the primary caregiver, right? Like…

Val: Or maybe the caregiver might be a single dad. And so you know, I think that either way, regardless of what it was rooted in, ableism, or fathers are different than mothers, or their… you know, I think either way, it’s detrimental to the family unit, to the experience of birthing a child in the United States, and it just really rubbed me the wrong way.

Ayelet: Me too.

Val: And, you know, the other piece, I think you mentioned, really, that is key is that it was a systemic problem. It is a systemic problem in that particular hospital, and when I was contacted by their unit manager, I was kind of given kind of Band Aid fixes, you know, oh, well, we’re moving to a new building, so accessibility shouldn’t be an issue there or well, that nurse is no longer with us. I was told by her contracting company that she, that she would not be coming back… and Okay, like those things fix some aspects of it. But that culture shift is what I’m not really getting a feel that they’re going to really address and get to, which is, is what all of it is rooted in, in my opinion.

Ayelet: Yeah. Well, I’d love to just sort of shift gears a little bit and ask you, because of your own identities, because of your own experiences, and your own proclivity to like, stand up and advocate for yourself, right? Like what, for you, in your mind? What are some things that expecting moms or dads can do, who, you know, might want to be aware of things like this or hospital procedure or protocol, like the things that you experienced? Like what are some things or tips that you might give to people about either what they can do before they enter the hospital, anything like things they could write down? Or say or do or ask when selecting a hospital, things like that? Like, do you have any kind of sense of things that like, what you would do differently, or what you would tell your best friend who’s like having a child at that hospital who shares or doesn’t share any of the identities that you hold?

Val:  Oh, that’s such a good question. And it’s loaded, it’s rich in answers! So my number one answer would be trust your instincts. Right. So like you mentioned, I am a really passionate advocate and this is a little bit of a rabbit hole that I’m going down, but when I was pregnant with my first born son, I was having some dental issues and I was given the go ahead by my OBGYN to get them addressed during pregnancy. You know, she said, You’re out of the first trimester and it’s now safe so long as you are not administered epinephrine. So, fine, so I go, I scheduled my doctor’s appointment. My OBGYN has to fax over a letter clearing me – of course, very importantly, to the dentist’s office, where she made that note, no epinephrine. Because, epinephrine is, I believe – my understanding – is synthetic adrenaline and it can actually send you into premature labor.

And so I’m sitting in the dentist chair, the doctor has the needle inches away from my mouth. And I’m thinking, don’t be that person. Don’t be that person. Don’t be that person. But of course, I am that person, so I stopped her. I stopped her, and I said, I just want you to know, I’m pregnant. And there’s no epinephrine in that, right? So I see her, like, grabbing the needle, and, like, putting it behind her bag and switching the vial, and she’s like, you’re pregnant? Um, let me look up the note. And oh, yes, of course. It’s right here in the patient notes! No epinephrine, sure! But I see her, like, changing the vial of what’s in the syringe. So clearly, there was epinephrine in it. And so, so therefore, my number one advice is, you know, trust your instincts. You know, so often, we like have imposter syndrome where we want to discourage ourselves. Oh, no, like, why would you know better than the doctor? Or why would you know better than the dentist? Don’t ask that. That’s annoying. Of course, there’s no epinephrine in that, of course, this is just the way that things are done.

Ayelet: Of course they have your best interests in mind, right?

Val: Yeah. And I want to say no, you know, if you don’t feel right, question it. Question everything, you ultimately have options in your medical care in, you know, what birthing hospital, even whether you go to a birthing hospital, as you mentioned. So that’s number one, is trusting your instinct. I would also… I’m very big about trusting the consensus of the community. So I had put out a question about what the best birthing hospitals in the area were, and nowhere on that list was the one I delivered at. And, in hindsight, I’m not surprised by that at all, you know, and when I specifically asked, Well, what about this hospital, but I was told, oh, well, my experience there was two decades ago. And I’m like, well, that’s not, that’s not comforting. Or, you know, and so it was, in hindsight, it was very easy for me to see that the writing was on the wall. And I, you know, I found a physician that I was very comfortable with, I felt her cultural sensitivity aligned with what I needed. And she only delivered at that hospital. So I made that concession.

And, you know, it was a fine choice for me, like I said, but it could have had the potential to be traumatizing if I didn’t have all these other benefits that I had coming in. And then the last thing is, just that talking to people that you know, and trust, every birthing experience is different. A birthing plan, I’ve never had one because all I know is that nothing ever goes according to plan when it comes to birth and delivery. But the more you speak to other people, the more you will know what to expect. So I am a very… oh, buddy.

Ayelet: Yeah! You got stuff to say about that, too. Yes, you do.

Val: I am an extrovert, but I don’t like to share like very private details of my life with anyone. And so you know, I didn’t know about ice packs in your nether region when you’ve just delivered. I didn’t know that. But if I was a first time mom, knowing what I know, now, I would be asking everyone, how did you take care of what was your postpartum care like, and I would ask different people, moms who had a C section moms who delivered naturally – because that care looks different, too. So I think the power of the community should not be undermined, you know, people are our best resource, always, I think. And so leaning on your community. Moms who have been there before, dads who have been there before. I think that’s the beauty of social media that we can connect with people during a pandemic, during lockdown. So barriers are kind of non-existent now to connecting with other people… and at the same time barriers are at the highest they’ve ever been, because we’ve got 5000 things pulling at our attention at any given time.

Ayelet: Well said, yes. And then I’d love to know if you have any resources that you can share that have been helpful for you while exploring any of these topics. But we’ve touched upon, which is so many things. But I think, you know, part of what we do here at Learn With Less® is just, you know, open up people’s ideas and minds to what’s out there and sharing great resources. So if there’s anything that you would like to share that’s been helpful for you in terms of thinking about things in terms of educating you on any of these issues as far as ableism. As far as the systemic issues of privilege and identity. I’d love for you to share a few of those right now.

Val: Oh, another loaded question. I don’t have any, like, “go to” resources. Of course, I’m going to point everyone to Accessible Vacations, because that’s just where we share, my husband and I share, about our life, kind of how some of these things show up in everyday life. I think normalizing disabled parenting is really important. I think reaching across the aisle and talking to people who don’t look and sound and parent like you is also really important. So, for example, I breastfed both of my boys and some of my dearest friends have exclusively formula fed. And I think that there’s a there’s a big debate about that “breast is best” versus “fed is best.” And we tend to, like, overly theorize these arguments and we’re like no like, biologically breast is best. There’s no other way. No, but science is so great, that formula is the same – fed is best if I don’t feed him, he’s gonna die.

But when you really put a face to that, it’s hard to be so stuck in your ways. There’s no way I could look at my best friend who formula fed her daughter and say, actually, breast is best and you did your daughter a disservice. There’s no way. Right? Because I know that’s not true. That’s, that’s factually inaccurate. And also, there’s a human behind there. And there’s, there’s two humans, there’s my best friend and my best friend’s daughter, who is one of my son’s closest friends. So I think reaching across the aisle, meeting with people who don’t think the way you do and then lastly, checking your own privileges and kind of being aware of it, I make a practice of that when I express my gratitude.

So anytime I’m looking around, and I’m thinking, wow, you know, I have food on the table, or, you know, wow, I have a safe roof over my head, or  wow, I have a kind of animosity that like my options are endless for ABCs of Safe Sleep. I like to take that time to kind of take on someone else’s perspective and really think about what would it feel like to be a mom who didn’t have the luxury of having a crib at home? And maybe I want to put my child to sleep alone on his back and in his crib, but financially or space? I don’t, I have limited space? And I don’t, I can’t have a crib in my house? How would that feel? Or how would I feel to have to skip a meal to feed my child or what, you know, you name it.

I, so I do that during my daily gratitude practice. And just as I’m being grateful for things I have thinking about what it would feel like to go without those things and, and how that would affect my interaction with the community. Because the fact is that it does. People who don’t have a crib in their home are looked at differently, you know, and treated differently and face different obstacles.

Ayelet: Right. Well, I love that literally, the first thing we did when we started recording today was you acknowledged all of the privileges that you hold. So, there – like, thank you for modeling to us the things that we can all do and and acknowledge. Val, thank you so, so much for coming on today. And for having this conversation with me. I really appreciate it. Again, please, let’s go ahead and share where can people find you if they’re interested in learning a bit more about what you do.

Val: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Again. I’m so grateful. This was so great. And I can’t wait to hear the feedback and see if anyone else finds it useful. But my husband and I we run a nonprofit. It’s called Accessible Vacations. It was born out of our love for travel, but has since grown along with our family to include a lot of parenting and we are on Instagram @accessiblevacations, we’re on Facebook, @accessiblevacations, and we’re we have a website accessiblevacations.org and we’re also on YouTube, although we need to improve our presence there.

Ayelet: I obviously will be sharing all of those links in the show notes. And yeah, I cannot wait to share this episode with everybody. So thank you so much for joining me, and for anyone who’s out there at home or on the go, thank you so much and we will talk to you next time.

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