Learning How To Be Old

Why are love and music better in old age? Coral Trimmer knows. She is a musical nonagenarian who bubbles over with life, love, and courage. She says, "Don't be afraid. Be joyful and defiant. And also, you can fall in love. In your 90s, just open up your arms — and there probably is someone for you."

I recorded this hilarious interview four years ago when Coral was 92, and I wanted to know what life was like in your 90s. With Coral's permission, I now present her words for your delight.

Warning: this episode contains talk of sexuality, a little bit of swearing, and very strong opinions.

But don't be afraid! She is just being joyful and defiant ... and in love. If you and I have even a tiny portion of Coral's spirit in our 90s, and a fraction of the love and music in her life, we'll be very lucky people.

Walking with old bodies can change so slowly that we hardly notice. When we are old, we are tempted to walk with extreme caution, shrinking the natural movements of our legs, ankles, arms, head and eyes. We might assume, perhaps subconsciously, that small careful stiff tight shuffling steps are safer: but the opposite is true. Similar symptoms affect people with a condition much more serious than mere old age: Parkinson's Disease. Jennifer consciously fights this tendency, and so can we, even if we're lucky enough to be healthy.

Jennifer Andrewes was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease at the age of 48. She launched herself into walking seriously — or rather, joyfully — as a way of slowing the progression of PD. She has now walked four extremely long caminos and so of course she has much to teach us about walking on the earth.

Soon after the diagnosis she decided this: "While I could walk, I would walk. And while I would walk, I could walk."

In this lovely conversation, Jennifer describes in detail her experience with big walks, enormous walks and little walks, like stepping outside the front door. Mind, body and spirit are all at work and all enriched. She talks of the intense focus, or mindfulness, she applies to every step. Then in a complete turnaround, she tells us how walking can also free your mind, detach it from your worries. Jennifer's revelations are also practical, realistic, and surprisingly relevant to those of us walking with old bodies.

This episode energises me at 86! I hope you like it as much as I do. If so, you might change one of your tiny walking habits — and please, tell a friend.

Pinky Agnew, a much-loved New Zealand comedian, entertainer, and funeral celebrant, talks with Rachel McAlpine (me) about managing friendships in old age. Midlife is a good time to consider your friendships and what lies ahead. Is fear of loneliness a factor in your private FOGO (Fear Of Getting Old)?

“Managing friendships” is not just about avoiding loneliness, a known killer of old people — it includes backing away from friends who are no longer right for you, being friendly to strangers, maintaining good friendships when circumstances change, accepting the loss of some friends, and being open to unexpected friendships.

Pinky has good tips on making new friends, dissolving friendships, how not to be a grumpy old bugger, and how to have 7 conversations a day. (She says that talking to a dog counts as a conversation, even if the dog does not talk back.)

I finish with a poem: “How to make friends when you’re old.”

Plenty to learn here about managing friendships, including from our best teachers: little children.

NOTE: Encore! A longer version of this episode was first broadcast 18 months ago. The challenge of making and keeping friends continues throughout life, so it's well worth a second listen!

We all hit obstacles with our computers and smartphones and tablets, but IT issues in later life can seem especially tricky. That might be partly because of normal age-related changes like arthritis, poor eyesight, or short term memory failings. Or it might be because we've retired, because at work we might have had an IT team to call on.

Oliver Couchman has been helping people tackle problems with digital devices in his spare time ever since he was 13. Now he has some sage advice for everyone, but particularly around IT issues for older people, based on years of one-on-one experience. If you have seen yourself as incompetent with technology, stop now! He has watched scores of older people at their keyboards, and when it comes to perpetuating that stereotype, I reckon we're our own worst enemies.

Do you have an uneasy feeling that you SHOULD be using your computer differently, or you're 'not good' at technology? What's the IT challenge you've got at the moment? (We've all got them.) Also, have you ever been scammed? Whatever your situation, I reckon Oliver will boost your confidence.

At 86, I'm not a digital native. I was in my late 40s (I think) when a desk computer entered my working life, and that was an adorable Apple IIE Classic. Which means I've been using a computer for 40 years — how about you? You didn't start yesterday and you know a lot. You know what you need to know, and you learn new tricks when you need them and not a moment sooner. That's normal, says Oliver.

Listen if you might be old one day!

I've never seen hockey cited as an easy or safe sport for seniors, but Di Jordan, 69, plays on with wisdom and a wild joy. Don't stop, she says.

Di will turn 70 on her next birthday, which is a big deal for a Masters hockey player. It means she'll progress from being the oldest in her beloved 65+ team to the 70+ tier, where she will be the youngest player... for a while.

She talks about the many rewards of the game itself and its impact on her life. Di is a wise elder in the world of New Zealand hockey. She brings decades of experience and reflection to her other roles as coach and elder. She spreads the joy far and wide — including to you and me through this recording.

Sport for seniors can be a fun choice and many start playing a competitive sport that they've never tried before. They get stuck into lawn bowls or golf, table tennis or badminton. Croquet, which appears so gentle, can be fiercely competitive. Even pickleball, widely regarded as a purely social sport, has its tournaments and ladders and professional players. Nevertheless, these can be played casually, for fun.

By contrast, nobody mentions field hockey when listing the "easiest sports for seniors" or "safest sports for seniors"! Yet Di Jordan has been playing hockey almost continuously for the last 58-odd years. She stopped to have her babies, then back she went. Hockey is the game she loves, and in local hockey, she plays alongside 16-year-olds, keeping up with them — just, she says — in the sprints.

Enjoy this positive and fun conversation with the legendary Di Jordan ... and if you play a sport you love, don't stop. A few kind strangers also share their experience of sport at school and after leaving school. Their replies surprised me and they made me smile.

Masters — Hockey New Zealand (home truths on video, One News)

Are you a bit skeptical about spirituality? Do you wonder whether you even have a spiritual life? And whether this might help you in old age? Michael Fitzsimons, a wise and open-minded poet, cancer survivor and former trainee-priest, explores spirituality for skeptics, beginners and believers alike.

We explore some interesting ideas including these:

As we finish our discussion, Michael suggests a simple daily habit to heighten awareness and enrich your inner life— regardless of whether you are a skeptic or a believer.

Resources relevant to this episode:

I asked Deborah Shepard to talk about writing your life story, because she has been teaching a course on memoir writing for 20 years. Tips are especially useful as you get older, because your life story gets longer and longer and longer! The rewards for writing a memoir will surprise you, I think, because they can be profound. Not financial rewards for most of us, but rewards such as confidence, understanding, wisdom, excitement, camaraderie and pride.

I've written a lot of books myself, so some of Deborah's ideas were naturally familiar to me. But I also got some totally new ideas from her, which have been tried and tested by hundreds of people over 20 years.

So if you have ever thought about writing your own memoir, listen up. Deborah gives a detailed description of the writing methods she teaches, so that you can start with confidence and really enjoy the process of writing. She knows what motivates people to start such an interesting project, and they're all good reasons. She wants you to write your memoir with affection and warmth, being kind to yourself and writing as if to a good friend: that's solid gold advice. And there's more, much more.

Writing your memoir: nothing to lose, and so much to gain. Now's good!

If you have a friend with similar interest, do share this episode: this might be the start of a supportive writing group.

Deborah Shepard is an author, oral historian and film and art historian. She has also been a lecturer in Film, TV and Media Studies at the University of Auckland.

I enjoy reading tips from a centenarian about why they've lived so long and stayed so perky. Now well over 100, Doris Carnevali devised an original system for tackling the never-ending problems of daily life in extreme old age, and reasons for gratitude.

Whether you are almost old, already old, or never-gonna-be-old, she is my role model for positive ageing. I'm sharing three key chapters from my book based on her blog, The Sturdy Centenarian.

Usually when very old people are asked for tips on aging, they give varied and specific advice from their own experience. Tips like “stay young at heart” or "stay curious" or "keep dancing" or “marry a good wife.” Doris Carnevali does give advice, although she thinks of herself as a guide, not a teacher. She also also offers a practical, pretty straightforward system for dealing with the challenges that crop up every day when you become very old.

This short episode was first broadcast in November 2024.

Rich advice from 100 centenarians (The Guardian, 23 February 2023)

Even as toddlers we start establishing ourselves as autonomous individuals, and we turn up the volume in our teens. Then in old age we are obliged (or expected) to gradually surrender some decisions, some control over our lives. How are we to navigate these changes?

Defending our autonomy is a serious business at any age. In this bonus episode, the Sturdy Centenarian rages against “thoughtless condescension.” We intuitively want to be boss of ourselves. In old age, when we notice others deciding and acting on our behalf, that hurts. Doris Carnevali has figured out how to deal with this.

Retired professor Doris Carnevali is one of my most important mentors for the uncharted territory of aging. In her 90s she noticed that younger people felt free to breach her boundaries, disregarding her opinions and being downright rude. This was shocking, and apparently due only to her advanced age.

The problem was obvious — but what to do, how to protect her precious autonomy? She decided to bring the topic into the light. She began talking to her family openly and truthfully about how old age affected her. She set some rules, too.

I always find guidance from this wise woman. I’m about 18 younger, and I get tips from her experience of defending autonomy that would have been useful to me 40 years ago.

I yearn for good conversation in old age, and I have problems. There's tons of advice about how to talk TO old people. But I AM that old person, and I need help too. So I asked Kirsty Ferguson for help.

In my 80s, I'm hard of hearing and slow to process information. I miss the jokes, I interrupt, give unsolicited advice, repeat myself and lose track. I'm sometimes silent and sometimes rude. So I asked some kind strangers on Cuba Street and Kirsty Ferguson for insights and advice about what makes a good conversation.

They certainly came through! Kirsty is an experienced disputes moderator and counsellor, and every stranger contributed a different and true idea. In the end, the solution is not unique to old people. In fact, anyone who might be old one day would do well to start practising these conversational skills well in advance. Let's accept the changed dynamics of conversation in old age — and be patient and kind to ourselves.

I wonder what you're thinking. What's a good conversation, in your opinion? Do you have enough of them? Do you think you have more problems participating in conversations than when you were younger? What would make conversation more enjoyable for you? Is there anything you could do to make them more enjoyable?

That's all, I'm done! And please do share this with a friend if you find it interesting.