LeftFoot - Fresh Conversations on the Business of Law

In Episode 112 we talk with Ivy Grey, lawyer, Legal Tech Designer and Legal Tech author. For Ivy, the transition from lawyer to legal tech designer wasn’t difficult; growing up in Silicon Valley she naturally uses technology for efficiency. Similarly, she’s embraced writing about technology with the goal of making the duty of technology competence accessible to all lawyers by focusing on the technology lawyers use every day; tools like Microsoft Word and the Microsoft suite of products. Implementing legal technology shouldn’t be total upheaval; it’s about palatable changes that allow technology to impact how we work.

Ivy looks at changing market conditions as having forced the wall down between lawyer and client. Clients today expect their lawyers to care about efficiency and outcomes. For Ivy, that means understanding the whole situation not just the legal and risk components. By following what's going on, how we got here and working to correct the cause of the issue we put ourselves in the client’s shoes and show that we care.

In addition to her writing and legal tech design; Ivy Grey focuses her legal practice on bankruptcy and distressed transactions.

On Episode 111 Brooks Brown of Goodwin Procter talks about the initiative and energy required for consistent business development success; that building relationships that lead to new clients and additional work with current clients should be part of each day. Reviewing a single page business development strategy document weekly and prioritizing tactical business development objectives is an important and enjoyable part of legal work and a priority within his practice.

For Brooks, repeat success comes from understanding the goals of his clients and their organizations. Asking early what success looks like, beyond the facts then collaborating with them to meet their business objectives. His success story reflects on educating firm relationship partners on a specific area of risk, and it's associated litigation. Explaining a complex legal concept concisely using business terms that lawyers could remember and convey to others.

Brooks advise to those starting out? Be focused on building a toolkit of what works in business development today. Clients in today's market value experience and expertise that allows them to be efficient in what they do. Using data intelligence to support alternative pricing models builds confidence both internally and with clients. Sharing firm operations expertise; recommendations on fee arrangements; and providing input on e-discovery tools are examples of helping clients achieve effective outcomes.

Brooks Brown is a partner in Goodwin Procter's financial industry group and co-chair of the banking and consumer financial services practice. He specializes in defense of leading financial services and technology companies in consumer class action, government investigations, and enforcement actions.

Today’s guest is Cat Moon a practicing lawyer, educator and business leader with more than 20 years of experience in human-centered design, agile project management, strategic communication, and the practice of law.

Human-centered design is a process, a set of tools, a mindset of curiosity and empathy. It’s putting you in the shoes of the client; asking excellent questions and listening intently before offering solutions. Human-centered design is reorienting how you work and delivery service by putting the client in the center.

Along with human- centered design, Cat and her colleagues at Vanderbilt University Law School are teaching and practicing collaborative skills with cognitively diverse teams. Cognitively diverse teams are both efficient and effective in solving today’s business problems, serving client more broadly and with stronger conclusions than non-diverse teams.

Reflecting on her own experience as a practicing lawyer, Cat’s advice to others includes going above and beyond for clients and seeing feedback as affirming and valuable. She also encourages embracing ambiguity, asking questions and gaining insight before presenting a solution.

Cat Moon is the Director of Innovation Design, Program in Law and Innovation at Vanderbilt University Law School; where she is also an adjunct professor. Cat is the Chief Operating Officer, Chief Design Officer and Co-founder at Legal Alignment - a company focused on creating alignment in legal workflow through legal process management training and global certification.

A partner since 2007, Sarah Cave kicks off our conversation talking about digging in on tough problems, being highly organized, and listening to understand a client’s wants and concerns. She then shares her three-pronged growth strategy:

• Show Up: be thoughtful about determining events and situations to participate in that allow you to meet potential clients and make connections with people who are good to know

• Put Up: keeps your skills toned and ready to assist clients and potential clients

• Shut Up: focus on listening, observing, and being keenly aware of the needs of your clients and their desired outcomes;

Sarah reflects on her positive experiences getting involved and showing up for events with both her local Bar and the International Bar Association. She conveys a success story that came out of meeting a lawyer at an International Bar Association event. She also talks about seeing clients as people and ensuring you’re aware of the goals of the person and not just the matter at hand.

When asked what’s truly innovative in legal technology Sarah notes that strong communication and technical sophistication is expected by clients today. That leveraging technology to effectively connect and respond to a client’s needs will enhance the trust and confidence a client has in you and your services.

Sarah’s advice to those starting out, have a plan that’s flexible; take advantage of opportunities that present themselves. Be informed, not just about the law but about business and industry so you can respond to your clients’ needs and requests. Lastly, listening is critical in developing client trust and confidence.

Hughes Hubbard & Reed, Partner, Sarah Cave leads a practice focused on complex securities litigation, professional liability, and bankruptcy litigation in federal, state trial and appellate courts across the country. She’s worked on the largest financial crisis-related litigations of the past several years.

With Judy Jennison of Perkins Coie

Today’s episode features Perkins Coie intellectual property practice leader, Judy Jennison, in addition to her time in private practice, she spent 8 years as an in-house lawyer with Microsoft in intellectual property, product development, and antitrust compliance roles.

As a former in-house lawyer within a big organization, Judy understands the path to success requires an understanding of the client’s culture and the goals of their legal department for the next several years. With this understanding, she focuses her efforts on projects that align with both the long-term strategy of her firm and the strategic plans of her clients. Key to this plan is creating a happy, productive environment - a joyous experience - on both sides of the table, enhancing client and outside lawyer communication expanding the opportunity to present ideas and resolve issues.

A focus of our episode was Judy’s success story where she highlights a pilot project designed to improve timelines, enhance institutional knowledge of the client, and ensure proper budgeting for a significant portion of the client’s legal spend. For this project, Perkins is providing all outside counsel support (excluding litigation) for a subgroup of the client’s legal department in exchange the client is paying Perkins a monthly fixed fee with a discretionary bonus to be paid at the end of the year. This 12-month retainer is a percentage of the clients typical yearly legal spend.

Perkins is managing this portion of the budget on behalf of the client assuming control and responsibility to ensure the work completed meets the client’s overall spend strategy. New matters and projects are discussed weekly with the client and less strategic matters may be allocated to a lower cost provider or put on hold. An added plus – by structuring an engagement that doesn’t require the firm to pitch on every matter, the firm can focus on being part of the solution; offering creative and strategic ways to assist the client

This success story is a great example of how law firms and in-house legal departments are changing and why partnering and delivering services in different ways is critical in today’s competitive environment.

In this week’s episode, we talk with Lisa Konie, Senior Director of Legal Operations at Adobe Systems, and a CLOC board member.

Legal Operations and Efficiency

When defining legal operations it’s helpful to look at all the things that naturally fall on the shoulders of lawyers but don’t have anything to do with the delivery of advice. Legal Operations is focused on making in-house legal and their relationships with outside counsel and other legal services organizations more efficient. Outside Counsel relationships and partnerships are built on a foundation of trust and satisfaction, legal operations make them better, faster, stronger, and ensures high quality. Similarly by effectively implementing AI and other efficiency technology lawyers can focus on more strategic activities. Legal departments today don’t want lawyers doing operational work; they want them doing what their uniquely capable of doing; work that requires legal advice.

Legal Operations Drives Value

When looking to create a relationship with a prospective client like Adobe, Lisa suggests thinking differently. Learn the business model of the client, learn about their culture, and their industry. Where legal operations exist understand their role within the business; if you’re bringing forward ideas and efficiency’s legal operations is a terrific entry point. Think of in-house legal as a small law firm of peers that could use help with tools to be successful. Lend your expertise and help them be more efficient, resolving pain points as a peer; not a super snowflake client.

Change the Conversation

It’s time to change the conversation to value, and how firms and vendors can help in-house legal can get more value for their spend. They want to talk about matters and effective outcomes for their organization; not billing and the allocation of resources assigned to our account. Talk impact; present data they can use, share information, collaborate and help proliferate the ideas needed to do legal differently.

Lisa Konie is the Senior Director of Legal Operations at Adobe Systems and a CLOC board member. She’s responsible for her organizations Legal and Government relations departmental operations including strategic planning, outside counsel relationships, tool implementation, and communications. Ensuring departmental effectiveness and efficiency while effectively fulfilling the needs of the business.

In this week’s episode, we talk with James Libson, Executive Partner at Mishcon de Reya, about his practice and setting up the Mishcon Academy to help lawyers develop the skills needed in today’s modern legal environment.

Reflecting on his career; his success as a firm leader; and cultivating business, James talks about continuously servicing clients, guarding their interests while constantly being on the hunt for new clients; many of which will come through good service in the form of referrals. He encourages his legal team to take advantage of both the institutional business development efforts available through the firm while also seeing business development as building their own business. This encouragement along with the addition of business and commercial training available through the Mishcon Academy has shown accelerated results; and is now part of the formal training program for Mishcon team members.

When asked about growth strategy, it’s evident this is an area were the Mishcon de Reya has spent time and effort; and it’s paying off. The process began by developing 3-year strategic plans for each of their 16 businesses. Attention to these strategies has resulted in significant growth. Taking this further Mishcon is rolling their 3-year plans under a 10-year vision for the company. The business decisions being made by Mishcon today represent the desired essence of the firm 10 years into the future. By thinking, working and planning for a future vision, they’re able to make brave decisions enhancing the business in areas they wouldn’t otherwise invest.

When analyzing the market, James finds the most innovative lawyers are looking at the application of the law in new areas like drone or blockchain law. Dovetailing this with his advice to lawyers, seek an area of law that’s of interest to you; that’s intellectually stimulating. Today lawyers need different skills; it’s these skills that will accurate the advancement of this new generation of lawyers within the firm.

James Libson is the Executive Partner at Mishcon de Reya. He acts for a variety of clients in the areas of privacy, employment, commercial disputes and litigation. He’s worked on several high profile cases and believes a lawyer in practice is nothing without clients.

The following highlights points from our discussion with Javier Fernandez-Samaniego, the Managing Director of Samaniego Law; an alternative Iberoamerican law firm.

Firms as Aggregators

Alternative firms offer a different structure for the delivery of legal solutions focusing on delivery as an aggregator of solutions. This includes specialties not typically part of a traditional firm; non-legal services, technology, and outsourced solutions. Offering overall consultancy and technology solutions within a firm often appeals to the General Counsel who doesn’t trust the disparate pieces but trusts the judgment of the alternative firm to provide a combination of services to assist in the resolution of business problems or facilitating business improvements.

Offering clients the coordination of and collaborative solutions is the way of the future. Lawyers who think broadly and provide business solutions to clients, build trust and foster long-term client relationships. It’s about the client and their business need with the use of technology benefiting the way a lawyer practices not as a replacement or a deterrent to practicing.

Firm Business Models and Innovation

While many US business models are innovative, the US legal industry isn’t seen as innovative, it’s seen as reluctant to change. The legal industry needs to commit to staying current. An example to replicate is the healthcare industry; an industry that’s saving lives by embraced innovation and continual advancement. Looking at the medical industry and the need to stay current lawyers and firms may see the value of innovation, technology and embracing change. Optimism exists with a new generation of lawyers hungry for change and a buyers market of General Counsel demanding it.

In the EU it’s a moment of transformation; lawyers are struggling which is driving innovation. Referencing a report on the future of the legal industry by the UK law society of England and Wales from 2016. We connect the change in the UK legal industry to the financial crisis and the liberation of the legal services industry through the law society’s approval of alternative legal business models - paving the way for UK firms as innovation leaders in their jurisdiction. This change, along with allowing external capital in structuring the ownership of firms has greatly influenced how clients buy legal services in the UK today. While large corporate organizations include fewer law firms and add several alternative law companies to their panels; organizations trying and having solid experiences with alternative firms we’re seeing change enabled.

Opportunity and Slogans

Today there are more opportunities than ever within the legal industry. Being a lawyer is an incredible profession as lawyers are drivers of change. Thinking about the needs of clients shouldn’t be a marketing slogan but a way of doing business. It’s our obligation to understand the needs of clients and to find the most efficient and appropriate solutions to solve their business problems.

Javier Fernandez-Samaniego is the Managing Director of Samaniego Law; an alternative Iberoamerican law firm specializing in technology law and dispute resolution. His firm has experience working with EU clients, Latin American Clients - and US clients undergoing EU expansion.

On episode 104 we talk with Travers Smith, Managing Partner, David Patient. David is clear on the approach he’s personally employed while growing Travers Smith in Europe. Noting the importance of being front-of-mind with clients, the tireless pursuit of targets, and thinking about clients even when they may not be thinking about you.

Personal service and developing relationships – knowing as many people as possible - is important, and when given the opportunity to work with clients deliver the best service possible. The practice of law is about people, and the people you’ll meet during your legal career. By listening to what clients want, and what’s happening in the market, you and your practice will grow.

Be brave, be tactical; persevere. When rebuffed don’t take it personally there may be a real reason you’ve been turned away, try again another day. It’s a long career. It builds. Maintain your network of peers and look for people who need your advice on a regular basis.

When asked what’s truly innovative today? The conversation turned to innovation by press release. The core of innovation in the delivery of legal advice and services today is listening to clients and being efficient. While the innovation applied to attracting and maintaining a millennial workforce will be key to the future of firms.

Travers Smith, Managing Partner, David Patient leads the London and Paris presence for his firm. An international M&A specialist he also heads his firm’s International committee coordinating relationships with leading independent law firms throughout the world. David Patient Bio

In episode 103 we featured Lisa Howlett, General Counsel, SVP and Secretary of Hunter Roberts Construction Group. Lisa ensures her organization has effective advice and representation working on legal issues related to construction, contracts, corporate transactions, real estate, labor/employment law as well as strategic business consulting and intellectual property matters.

Lisa learned early that the two key skills of in-house and outside counsel are listening and being responsive to the businessperson you’re assisting; learning what they’re trying to accomplish. Today, she hires outside counsel that cares and understands the personal and professional risk in-house attorneys are taking by bringing in outside counsel in with the hope they’ll provide valuable assistance that fulfills a business need.

Establishing trust with outside counsel is important, and as matters change and organizations grow you can’t rely only on people you know. Continuously evaluate other outside counsel and be open to working with new people. Look for attorney’s that are prepared and knowledgeable but also willing to share ideas in their area of expertise.

Save the meal invitations and trying to establish a business relationship by creating a social one first; no thank you. Invite Lisa or someone on her team to a CLE, have coffee before; or introduce her and her team to someone who can help them. Assist the team by providing something beneficial to the business. Social relationships don’t create business relationships; helping solve business problems creates business relationships.

For Lisa and the businesses, she represents cost certainty is important. RFPs are done for larger opportunities and smaller opportunities are often sent to new firms on a trial basis. She looks for lawyers and firms that will work with her; that is willing to discuss alternative fees; looking for predictability where it exists breaking down the components of a deal and getting creative with overall costs.

As willing as she is to recommend paying for the advice of a specialist partner; Lisa and her team want to manage and be fiscally responsible about components leading up to advice. Balancing alternatives to be efficient, including working with outside counsel for advice and in-house counsel and technology for document review her in-house department is stretching out in the new legal model.

In today’s world, the management of information is key and in-house counsel sees value in the culling of information done by outside parties presenting information to clients in a usable format. Lisa is also a fan of co-utilizing technology recommended by the firms she’s working with. Jointly using technology shows a commitment to efficiency and the long-term relationship.

Lisa’s advice to new lawyers just starting out? When looking to establish a professional network that could ultimately provide business for your practice Lisa suggests looking at your peers and building for tomorrow. When given the opportunity to bid on business make sure you convey the values of your firm. In-house legal is aligning hired legal staff with members of a business team they need to know that the firm and lawyers are in alignment with the mission of the client and the firm.

Today’s legal industry lacks middle-level lawyers many left 2008-2010 exactly when law school attendance dropped. The opportunity exists and there are many different avenues for junior associates today.