Legal Design Podcast

When we think of public space we tend to think of the urban environment around us: the buildings, bus stops, parks and walkways. But how often do we look at these mundane objects as forms of design and social interaction? Can the urban environment influence the way we behave? Is urban design actually a form of policy making? “We have to begin to understand that we are the environment”, says Shin Koseki, who is featuring us in this episode. Shin is UNESCO Chair Professor in Urban Landscape at the University of Montreal in Canada. "The most influential factor to human behavior is not building or places, it is the other people".

In this episode we discuss how the design of our urban environment can influence social justice and everyday democracy. Do “broken windows” really encourage criminal behavior? Is it possible to make people obedient to law through urban design? We also talk about the particular design of the spaces of justice, especially courthouses. Why do courthouses always look either pompous or boring? What would bring good feng shui to a courtroom?

Corporate compliance seeks to ensure that organizations are abiding by both industry regulations and government legislation as well as their own internal corporate policies and procedures. The common approach to compliance is to “tick the box” when certain formalities in the compliance protocol have been accomplished, without making sure whether people really know and understand what is expected of them. No wonder we get to read so often about corporate misconduct in the newspapers. If organizations really want to succeed in corporate compliance, it might require some human-centric design and understanding of social psychology and neuroscience. But what does Harry Potter have to do with it?

In this episode we talk about compliance design with Marie Potel-Saville and Elisabeth Talbourdet, two experienced legal designers from a Parisian Legal innovation by design agency, Amurabi. Marie and Elisabeth also share the stories of their early years as legal designers and what the career has taught to them so far.

Many law firms market themselves as client-centric. But is client-centrism just a buzzword on the brochure, not a value realized in practice? What "putting the client first" would really mean from the client perspective? Law firms can only exist as long as there is a demand for legal help services, but is it also clients’ job to demand for better value and client-centric solutions? In this episode we talk about the end-user experience of private legal services with Juha Saarinen, who works as the Head of People & Operations Legal in Nordea Bank Finland. 

Design thinking mindsets such as "fail fast" and "be curious" aren't commonly combined to the work done in courts. Courts are known to be the blind services of the justice, pursuing objectivity, formality and the rule of law. But would the end-users benefit if the courts were also open to explore new ways of doing things? In this fifth episode of the podcast series we talk about the possibilities of innovation, technology and legal design in courts with Andrea Lindblom, who works as the Chief of Administration in the District Court of Helsingborg, Sweden. 

Where law seeks to influence human behavior by setting obligations, legal design aims to make those obligations easier to understand and follow by using human centric design methods. Sometimes these methods can encompass behaviorally informed "nudges". In behavioral economics nudges are defined as any kind of interventions in the physical or social environment that alters people's behavior in a predictable way without forbidding any options or significantly changing their economic incentives. So to say, nudges make certain decisions easier, yet without limiting one's freedom of choice. A fitness app nudges with activity notifications, so does a car navigator showing the best route options. Nudging, however, also has a reputation of being a psychological trick used in product marketing: those chocolate bars placed next to a cash register at your grocery store aren't there just by random. But should legal products such as contracts and court documents use nudging too? Or do they nudge already?  

In this episode Nina and Henna talk about nudging and its possibilities and pitfalls in legal design with David Tannenbaum, a researcher of decision making and an Assistant Professor in the Department of Management at the University of Utah’s Eccles School of Business. 

In this episode Henna and Nina talk with Erin Levine, legal innovator and entrepreneur from California. Erin shares the story behind her revolutionary online divorce platform Hello Divorce. The DIY platform helps people applying for divorce to navigate through the divorce process independently. Erin tells us who are the potential users for DIY legal help services and how technology has changed the way her team of lawyers work today. We also discuss what else should be changed in the legal industry by design. Why is it important to mitigate the negative image of legal problems, such as divorce? Do we also need a platform “Hello Bankruptcy”? And what is the one thing that almost all customers want from their legal services? Nina gets goosebumps by Erin’s inspiring mission to promote justice through tech, yet promises not to divorce her husband.

Should legal texts be written in the form of poems? Is legal design legal science? What happens when legal and design cultures collide? In this second episode of the podcast series Henna and Nina discuss with Michael Doherty, Professor of Law and Associate Head of the Law School at Lancaster University in UK, about the relationship between law and design disciplines both from philosophical, educational and cultural point of views. We also find out that comprehensibility in law is not a new trend, but has been discussed through times. What will it take to make it mainstream? In this episode Henna is let loose and gets to ask funny questions about her law school nemesis, Legal Theory.

In this first episode of the podcast series Henna and Nina talk to Lina Krawietz, the Co-Founder and Managing Partner of This is Legal Design, a Berlin based innovation consultancy specialized in legal innovation. In this episode we cover the basics of Legal Design. What is Legal Design and why do we need it? Does design thinking change how lawyers work? We also talk about how to implement design thinking into client work and the impact of legal design. Is it possible to determine the business value of Legal Design or the value of improved user experience?