Legion Strength & Conditioning Podcast

MaryKay Dreisilker qualified for the 2020 CrossFit Games with a 35th place finish in the Open. She’s been working with Legion since 2017, so we figured it would be good to get MK’s thoughts on training - especially in times of wild uncertainty. This is the first part of our interview and was recorded in March, so things have obviously been changing rapidly since then. MK’s advice on dealing with uncertainty and the emotional rollercoaster of training is salient as always.

• Instagram: @marykaydrei

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• [00:53] MaryKay’s background in both gymnastics and ultimate frisbee
• [06:02] Starting CrossFit on a Groupon – and gradually transitioning into taking training more seriously and eventually pursuing competition
• [14:45] How does MK handle bad days in training? And, the process of separating the emotions of training with the actual effort you put into training.
• [22:27] How does MK handle modifying training – and how to avoid feeling guilty if you have a bad day in the gym or need to skip something.
• [25:48] How is MK reacting to the uncertainty in the 2020 CrossFit season?

It may seem a bit crass to be talking about "gains" in the middle of a global health crisis, but - with a lot of people moving from training in gyms with barbells, pull-up bars and assault bikes to training in their living rooms with a dumbbell and maybe a backpack full of heavy stuff from their kitchen, people are wondering if they’re going to lose all the progress they’ve made in the gym. While some things will definitely take a hit, the good news is that you’re not *that* fragile and adaptations in strength and aerobic capacity are relatively persistent. Check out the full episode to learn what you can expect in terms of losing fitness, what the process of regaining that fitness will probably look like, and what you can prioritize while training at home with less than ideal equipment selection.

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• [00:15] What is the current status of the coronavirus situation in Barcelona (where Luke is), Chicago (where Todd is) and Denver (where Jon is)?
• [03:02] It may be crass, but a lot of athletes are wondering if they’re going to lose all of their gains.
• [08:24] What types of adaptations are people potentially going to lose and which are more resilient even if you take significant amounts of time off? Why does it feel so bad when you come back to doing hard CrossFit workouts after some time off?
• [19:25] What is the difference between athletes who handle adversity and things not going to plan well and those who do not?
• [28:50] What should training focus on given that people may not be able to do as much “CrossFit”? What can athletes work on given that they may not have access to a lot of equipment – and what can be improved even in non-ideal circumstances?

There’s been a shift over the last several years in the fitness community towards a better understanding of "training as a stressor." This is a fantastic thing, since folks seem to recognize that more is not always better, and training is not helpful if you’re not able to recover from it. However, this has also led to a industry of recovery tools - often with associated highly mechanistic and scientific-sounding explanations of things like upregulating parasympathetic tone and and influencing the cortisol signaling cascade. But, do these things actually do anything? How much does recovery really matter in terms of long-term progress for athletes? And, can we actually do anything to change our ability to recover?

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• [00:15] How much do things like saunas, massage guns, supplements, and breathing drills really impact recovery?
• [06:12] A framework for thinking about recovery: What are the most important variables that impact recovery? Which of these do we have control over? When is it worthwhile to focus on marginal gains?
• [15:08] Do people really have a genetic ceiling?
• [19:44] How do we design training programs appropriately relative to someone’s ability to recover?
• [24:04] What are tangible takeaways for people in terms of thinking about volume and intensity – and how should people design their programs to balance volume and intensity?
• [31:10] Why the “high/low” model from endurance training is relevant for CrossFitters – and why it helps us find the appropriate level of training stress.

Lots of athletes are doing most of their training either on CrossFit classes at their affiliate - or in small groups of friends who are following an online program. In these situations, athletes are often trying to figure out how much additional work they can do "on the side" of their main program in order to get better. For athletes who want to get stronger, this often takes the shape of adding in additional sessions that follow some sort of squat or weightlifting cycle. But, how much additional strength work should an athlete do in order to actually see improvements? And, what should they be prioritizing in their additional sessions? This all comes down to understanding the concept of "adaptation currency" - meaning how much training can you actually adapt to. Spend your adaptation currency wisely when adding in additional sessions - especially if you want to get stronger.

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• [00:13] What are the trade-offs between doing classes with additional programming vs following a fully individualized program?
• [10:00] Why training with others can help people who don’t always have the time or energy to train?
• [15:13] How should athletes think about their priorities in training – especially if they’re already doing a standard CrossFit program in their classes?
• [25:30] How to think about spending your adaptation currency wisely – and why athletes should focus on low-hanging fruit.
• [30:34] Some specific recommendations for mapping out a training week and selecting priorities for additional strength work.

Michele Fumagalli finally made it to the CrossFit Games as an individual in 2018 after several near misses at Regionals - and sitting out the 2016 to have a baby. But, her Games were cut short when she crashed on her bike a few yards from the finish line during the first event, fracturing her wrist and tearing multiple ligaments. Michele has made the transition from training like a professional athlete to training like an every day athlete. And, in her work as a registered dietitian with her consulting company Fit Plate Nutrition, she helps clients filter the noise on Instagram and blogs while focusing on the most important thing for their specific goals.

• Website: www.fitplatenutrition.com
• Instagram: @fumagalli_fitplate

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• [01:22] Michele finally made it to the CrossFit Games in 2018 as an individual athlete – then broke her wrist on the first event. How did she deal with the disappointment?
• [09:09] How Michele stopped feeling sorry for herself after the 2018 CrossFit Games.
• [15:09] Michele’s transition from working in marketing for Gatorade to being a dietitian and working in oncology. And, what are the main differences between eating like a “professional athlete” and eating like an “every day athlete?”
• [26:45] What is the role of tracking for both elite athletes and for every day athletes? And what about for people who are in a “gray area” and are aspiring to be elite athletes?
• [34:27] How should people balance performance and aesthetic goals in their nutrition?
• [43:15] Why hard-charging, goal-driven people may not want to “back off” – even though it could be the most beneficial thing for them to do.
• [51:11] How does Michele work with clients in her practice? And, the importance of focusing on one thing to make long term progress.

Test and retest. Most people have an understanding that they should be checking in on their numbers by retesting workouts that they’ve done before. If those numbers are getting better…then great! Progress! But, if they’re not, then something must be wrong. In reality, once athletes get past the beginner stage, progress is much lumpier than we think. Our day-to-day performance varies significantly. We get stuck on long plateaus where we don’t feel like we’re making any progress. And we periodically taste a higher level of performance - but then quickly drop back down to our previous level. While this can be frustrating and psychologically challenging, this is, in fact, par for the course.

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• [00:15] While knowing your testing numbers is helpful, being too attached to numbers can have negative consequences. And, beginner, intermediate and advanced athletes all need to think about their numbers differently.
• [06:32] Even if you improve your strength, your cyclical time trials, and your max unbroken sets of gymnastics movements, you may not actually get better at CrossFit.
• [11:29] Managing expectations is key to going through testing periods. If athletes think that they’re always supposed to set a new record, they can get themselves into some psychological trouble.
• [17:16] Performance is more variable than people think – especially amongst folks who aren’t the ones who are always at the top of the leaderboard.
• [19:13] How often should athletes go through a testing period? How can they manage the psychological aspect of testing?

When figuring out pacing for a workout, there’s a few common ways that athletes calculate what they can expect to accomplish. The first (and most common) is to pace off of someone else who you know is typically around the same fitness level - maybe plus or minus a few reps or rounds. The second is to do a round at a moderate effort then adjust the pace up or down from there. While these are both reasonable strategies and can give an idea of what is realistic, it’s also important to be able to calculate an expected pace from "first principles" so-to-speak. Doing this is a skill just like any other, and requires knowing a few tricks: how long do certain movements take, how long do transitions typically take, how often can you expect to lift a heavy barbell, and how much can you expect to slow down during a workout?

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• [00:15] The 2 most common strategies that people use when approaching workouts: pacing off of their own first round and  pacing off of someone who tends to be at a similar capacity. How can we use basic rep math to get an outside perspective on how long our rounds should take?
• [13:10] How do we account for fatigue accumulating as we work? And how do we deal with barbell-based movements like heavy squat cleans when estimating time?
• [25:09] Cyclical pieces like rowing and biking give us a monitor - but how do we know what paces we should attempt to hold?

Some athletes are able to get pretty good at CrossFit pretty fast. But, these athletes often find themselves hitting glass ceilings in their performance. Even though they are able to do most of the gymnastics movements, hit decent weights, and grit through conditioning workouts, they plateau earlier than they think they should. What’s going on here? Often, these athletes have skipped steps in their development and are able to compensate their way through training. To improve long-term, these folks need to be willing to go backwards in their training and rebuild. This can be a huge ego hit, and - to be frank - not everyone is mature enough to do it.

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• [00:15] Some athletes are able to get pretty good at CrossFit pretty fast. But, what are some surprising ways that these athletes find glass ceilings on their performance?
• [7:41] People think of “compensation” as a bad thing, but better athletes are often better at compensating. Compensation isn’t just about lifting technique – how do some elite athletes compensate in their conditioning work?
• [17:41] Why taking a step back threatens athletes’ egos – and why the measurable aspect of CrossFit has a dark side that can have a negative impact on performance.

Pacing is important in just about any workout, but it’s particularly crucial when there’s a heavy barbell looming. If you don’t have a good understanding of how quickly you can move with different weights in conditioning workouts, and if you don’t understand how long you need to rest between heavier attempts, you can end up getting chewed up pretty badly on these kinds of workouts - even if you’re strong enough to move the weight. How can athletes best learn to pace themselves on “heavy metcons” - and how do they actually get better at lifting heavy under fatigue?

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• [00:15] How to pace for battery workouts or “heavy metcons” – and how to get better at them.
• [06:53] What do you need to think about to improve your battery? Hint: It’s not just about getting stronger. And, how should people who tend to be more explosive train their battery?
• [13:15] Why experience is one of the best teachers for pacing in “heavy” workouts – and how to train so that you can learn as much as possible.
• [20:39] Is there a difference between women and men in ability to do heavy weights in conditioning workouts?
• [25:16] How do tests of strength usually appear in CrossFit competitions? And – what should people do in their training sessions or in their next “heavy metcon” to get better?

Anyone who has coached or competed in CrossFit for awhile sees things that kind of don’t make sense. Athletes with 15+ unbroken ring muscle-ups and a 6:30 2k row who are surprisingly bad at “metcons.” Athletes who can only do 5-10 unbroken strict handstand push-ups who are able to quickly chip away at a set of 50 and beat athletes who can do 20+ unbroken reps. Evan Peikon from Training Think Tank has done a lot of work with the Moxy unit on measuring muscle oxygen saturation and blood flow, and he’s developed a model that is able to explain a lot of these seemingly confusing contradictions in performance. While this conversation gets a bit into the weeds, a lot of these details are necessary to understand the complexity of fatigue in CrossFit as a sport. If you’ve ever seen something that doesn’t make any sense in CrossFit, Evan’s framework may give some insight into what’s actually going on with different “types” of athletes.

Check out more from Evan and Training Think Tank here:

• Instagram: @evan_peikon | @trainingthinktank
• Website: Evan’s Interviews and Articles | www.trainingthinktank.com
• YouTube: @trainingthinktank

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Show Notes:

• [01:10] Evan’s opinions on metalcore
• [10:55] The basic physiology of oxygen delivery and what different measures like VO2 max, muscle oxygen saturation and heart rate can tell us about performance
• [16:58] What are different types of fatigue that can occur at the muscle level? And – the 3 different types of limiters in CrossFit athletes.
• [23:35] What is the difference between Evan’s model of fatigue based upon his work with muscle oxygen saturation and more traditional models of fatigue based upon acidosis?
• [31:45] What is happening when athletes feel “burning” in the muscle vs when athletes feel a “pump” in the muscle? How do these sensations in the muscle create global feelings of fatigue? What role does the “mind” play in governing our effort?
• [41:44] Psychological gamesmanship in racing – particularly in track athletes
• [45:00] What role do occlusions play in creating fatigue for athletes in CrossFit? And – the 2 different types of occlusion and what those mean for your ability to “push through.”
• [01:03:40] Why do some people always have one specific muscle group “blow up” – like their grip, their shoulders, their low back, their calves, etc.
• [01:09:23] How can athletes who tend to get muscle pumps improve their ability in CrossFit? What would an ideal training session look like for this athlete – and why do some common training protocols potentially make this kind of athlete worse?
• [01:17:25] What does Evan think the most common limiting factor is for athletes who do not tend to occlude in their muscles? These athletes often struggle to build strength – how should they structure their strength training protocols so they can actually get stronger?

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Norma Jean
• Josh Scogin
• Cory Brandan
• Norma Jean – Redeemer
• The Chariot
• CTP
• Underoath
• Slipknot
• Pound Classes
• What is muscle oxygen saturation?
• NIRS(Near-infrared spectroscopy)
• Moxy Monitor
• VO2 max
• The Phosphocreatine System
• Anaerobic glycolysis
• Cellular respiration
• Energy system utilization chart
• Bicarbonate buffer system
• 5-1-5 Step Test
• Improvements in Cycling Time Trial Performance Are Not Sustained Following the Acute Provision of Challenging and Deceptive Feedback
• Max El Hag
• Travis Mayer
• James Jowsey