Let's Talk Birth Rights

Let's Talk Birth Rights | Episode 2: Court-Ordered C-Sections And "Black Robe Syndrome" (With Doula Tiara Flynn, The Phenomenal Mama) — Part 1

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A nurse walks in with a tablet. On the screen: a judge in his black robe, and a room full of hospital attorneys. The woman in the bed is in active labor — and she's about to spend nearly three hours arguing, alone, for her right to decide how she gives birth.

That really happened to Cherise Doyley in Florida in 2024, and to Brianna Bennett the year before. In this episode, I'm joined by my own doula, Tiara Flynn of The Phenomenal Mama, to break down ProPublica's reporting on court-ordered C-sections: how a court got anywhere near a laboring woman, why she had no lawyer, and what every pregnant person needs to know about informed consent and the right to refuse.

IN THIS EPISODE

• How Tiara and I met (over coffee outside a Starbucks, coming out of Covid, when none of us knew how to people anymore) — and my doula-vetting spreadsheet
• What happened to Cherise Doyley and Brianna Bennett, and why "Florida woman" headlines shouldn't make anyone feel safe in other states
• The Black maternal health crisis, the CDC's finding that 1 in 5 women report mistreatment during maternity care, and why the U.S. has some of the worst maternal outcomes in the developed world
• The history behind modern obstetrics, including experimentation on enslaved women — and why Tiara says everyone in this work should read it
• "Black robe syndrome": the legal cousin of white coat syndrome
• Bioethics 101: informed consent is a foundational principle, not a box to check
• The BRAIN acronym: Benefits, Risks, Alternatives, Intuition, Nothing
• "If they're discussing and not directing, you still have options"
• Signing a hospital form is not signing away your body: you can give consent and take it back
• How a court gets jurisdiction over anyone, and why it doesn't automatically have it over a patient
• The emergency petition for declaratory relief that brought Cherise to court — and why she had no right to appointed counsel
• ACOG's ethics position on court-ordered C-sections, and why leaving it out of the hearing is, in my view, a candor-to-the-court problem

Part 2 of this conversation is coming next week. We had a lot to say.

MEET TIARA FLYNN, THE PHENOMENAL MAMATiara is a full-spectrum doula in Las Vegas, an Air Force veteran, and a pregnancy justice advocate and speaker. She also mentors doulas through her Doula Business Blueprint. (And she was my doula.)

Website: https://thephenomenalmama.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thepnmmama/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PNMMama

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• ProPublica, "They Didn't Want to Have C-Sections. A Judge Would Decide How They Gave Birth," by Amy Yurkanin (March 14, 2026): https://www.propublica.org/article/florida-court-ordered-c-sections
• Birth Rights Bar Association, "Birth Rights: A Resource for Everyday People to Defend Human Rights During Labor and Birth": https://birthrightsbar.org
• ACOG Committee Opinion No. 664, "Refusal of Medically Recommended Treatment During Pregnancy" (2016)
• In re Baby Boy Doe, 260 Ill. App. 3d 392, 632 N.E.2d 326 (Ill. App. Ct. 1994)
• Harriet A. Washington, Medical Apartheid
• Dorothy Roberts, Killing the Black Body

CONNECT WITH YOUR LEGAL DOULAWebsite: https://yourlegaldoula.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourlegaldoulaThreads: https://www.threads.com/@yourlegaldoulaTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@yourlegaldoulaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61558998736954YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourlegaldoulaSubstack: https://substack.com/@yourlegaldoulaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/105581659/Email: [email protected]

Attorney advertising. This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not legal or medical advice. Listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. Responsible attorney: Andi Orwoll, Esq., A.D. Orwoll Legal, PLLC, dba Your Legal Doula®, Las Vegas, NV.

Let's Talk Birth Rights | Episode 1: Birth Rights In the 1990s Classic, Friends (With Special Guest Karen Orwoll, a.k.a. My Mom!)

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In our first episode, birth rights attorney Andi Orwoll takes a pop culture look at birth in one of the most rewatched sitcoms of all time: Friends. Going in, I expected to cringe. Instead, I found a 90s sitcom that (mostly!) got it right — women deciding who's in the room, providers giving calm, evidence-based care, and breastfeeding right there on screen. Special guest Karen Orwoll (my mom!) joins to share her take on the moments we all know and love.

IN THIS EPISODE

- Carol kicks Ross and Susan out of the delivery room — and why "get out" is a birth right, not just a punchline

- Phoebe fires the Fonzie-obsessed doctor (and then the Doogie Howser one): your right to choose your provider, at any time, for any reason

- Rachel's 17-hour labor, and a doctor who lets her body do its thing instead of rushing to Pitocin or a C-section

- A breech baby mid-pushing — and why breech is a variation of normal, not an automatic emergency

- Carol breastfeeding (while the guys suddenly remember "something funny about sneakers"): your right to breastfeed anywhere you have a legal right to be, protected in all 50 states

- Karen's take: how friends and family — not just doctors — can make it harder to use your rights, and the burden of having to educate everyone while pregnant

BIRTH RIGHTS COVERED

- The right to choose who is in the room, including support people (and to ask anyone to leave)

- The right to choose — and change — your provider

- The right to be treated with dignity and respect

- The right to clinically sound, evidence-based care

- The postpartum right to breastfeed in public

UNDERSTAND + ASSERT

This episode walks through two parts of my birth rights framework: understand what your rights are, then assert them — out loud, no second-guessing, in the moment when it counts.

FREE GUIDE

Your Birth Rights in Brief: all your rights on a single page. It's free, it fits in your hospital bag, and it's waiting for you at https://yourlegaldoula.com

COMING UP

A How I Met Your Mother episode — and yes, there are some yikes moments.

More on what your birth rights actually are!

CONNECT WITH YOUR LEGAL DOULA

Website: https://yourlegaldoula.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourlegaldoula

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@yourlegaldoula

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@yourlegaldoula

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61558998736954

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourlegaldoula

Substack: https://substack.com/@yourlegaldoula

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/105581659/

Email: [email protected]

Have a question? Reach out anytime — and let me know if you want to talk your birth rights.

This has been part of your kitchen table birth prep. Because triage is no place to start learning your rights.

Attorney advertising. This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not legal advice. Listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. Responsible attorney: Andi Orwoll, Esq., A.D. Orwoll Legal, PLLC, dba Your Legal Doula®, Las Vegas, NV.

"Friends" and all audio clips discussed are the property of their respective owners and are used here for commentary and educational purposes.

Opening and closing song is "Simple Life" - licensed through Foximusic.