As more Americans join the growing movement for racial justice, one of the challenges for white allies is grappling with our country’s long history of white supremacy and renegotiating the meaning of whiteness.

Artist and audio producer Phoebe Unter has been confronting these issues head-on in her podcast miniseries Race Traitor. Today, she joins Wednesday host Ali Muldrow on the show for a frank discussion of whiteness, unpacking white privilege, and moving past performativity to disrupt white supremacy and reimagine a world that is anti-racist and just.

Phoebe Unter is an audio and visual artist based in Los Angeles. She is producer of the award-winning podcast The Heart and co-creator of Bitchface, an experimental audio project with Nicole Kelly. She also records oral histories with tenants for the Anti-Eviction Mapping Project.

Cover image by Gustavo Torres from Pixabay