Want to submit questions? Email us at [email protected]!

In this raw episode of Lights On, Carl and Laura Lentz tackle the question every couple secretly asks after betrayal: "Is this hard because we're healing—or hard because something is broken?" The answer will challenge everything you think you know about recovery.

Drawing from five years of rebuilding their own marriage, Carl and Laura expose an uncomfortable truth: the betrayed wife often has to work harder than the husband who cheated. Not because it's fair—it's absolutely not—but because staying stuck in suspicion will destroy you faster than the affair ever could.

Laura shares why she had to stop being the "police officer" in her marriage and become a "peaceful observer of change." Carl delivers the challenge most men avoid: if you want your wife to trust you again, stop waiting for her to ask the right questions. An honest man tells on himself.

From the difference between "spotlight work" and "shadow work," to why demanding honesty when you can't handle the answers creates a dangerous cycle, this episode delivers practical frameworks you can use today.

This episode will challenge any betrayed spouse who believes healing is the cheater's job alone.

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Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

---

Supported by Plana

https://plana.org/

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## CHAPTERS:

00:00 - Is This The Right Kind of Hard?

05:33 - The "You Cheated" Trump Card

09:49 - Why This Takes Constant Work

13:04 - Spotlight Work vs Shadow Work

20:21 - The Betrayed Wife Has To Work Too

27:21 - Police Officer vs Peace Observer

38:59 - Plana Partnership

39:54 - What An Honest Man Will Tell You

51:22 - Patterns Over Promises

55:47 - The Right Kind of Difficult

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Email us:

[email protected]

In this urgent conversation, Carl and Laura Lentz tackle an email that made them immediately stop everything and record: a woman whose husband has had over 200+ sexual encounters with prostitutes, massage parlors, and emotional affairs—yet he's calling HER controlling for asking him to stop chatting with younger women at the gym. Drawing from their own five years of rebuilding trust after infidelity, they expose the dangerous pattern that destroys second chances: the betrayer who refuses to see what's obvious. Carl reveals why any man who's broken his marriage vows cannot ask anything "outrageous" from his wife ("You could ask me to build a papier-mâché dragon and I'm doing it"), while Laura opens up about the exhausting reality of being told you're crazy when your intuition was right all along. They demolish the myth that boundaries after betrayal are "controlling" when the brutal truth is: if you cheated, you created this—every single boundary she asks for is sacred, not crazy. From why "I'm just being friendly" is the most dangerous phrase a cheating husband can say, to the therapist who tricked Carl into humility by making him assume everything he heard was right for one week, this episode validates every betrayed partner who's been gaslit into thinking their needs are unreasonable. They reveal why the betrayed person gets to be "selfish" for a season (and why that season might be 10 years), how tolerance is conditioned over time starting way before marriage, and why Carl still reports when there's a woman receptionist at his doctor's office five years later. The frame that changes everything: You can't rebuild trust while the behaviors that broke it are still being defended. And if you're the one who cheated and you're sitting there thinking "but she's being unreasonable" while defending your right to talk to other women, this conversation exposes why you're not ready to change and what that means for your marriage. Warning: This episode will challenge men who think they've apologized enough and may trigger those who've weaponized the word "controlling" to avoid accountability for their betrayal.

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Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

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CHAPTERS:

00:00 - Urgent Pod: The Email That Made Us Record Immediately

03:33 - 200+ Affairs And He Says She's Being Ridiculous

07:16 - Nothing You're Asked Is Outrageous After Betrayal

11:48 - You Created This Pattern Over Hundreds Of Decisions

15:00 - The Receptionist Story: Why Carl Still Reports Everything

17:09 - You Can't Rebuild Trust While Defending Old Behaviors

22:00 - "I'm Just Being Friendly" Is Feeding An Old System

27:40 - Controlling vs. Protecting: How To Know The Difference

32:14 - Shaming vs. Setting Boundaries: The Dignity Question

36:07 - What You Tolerate: Trauma, Fear, And Fatigue

40:43 - What Pattern Of Mine Keeps Me Stuck In Their Pattern?

43:19 - The College Boyfriend Story: How Tolerance Gets Conditioned

45:40 - If Love Costs You Peace, Is It Love?

47:21 - The Question Every Husband Should Ask About Boundaries

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

At 47 years old and 23 years into marriage, Carl and Laura Lentz drop the most uncomfortable truth about relationships: your marriage doesn't need more love, it needs more PROOF. After surviving public infidelity that should have ended everything (200+ affairs, strip clubs, massage parlors), they expose the lie you're living: that talking about your marriage mattering is the same as proving it matters.

Carl gets brutally honest: "If I looked at your phone, your calendar, your actual schedule—would it prove your marriage is your priority? Or would it prove you're full of shit?" Laura reveals how she literally set three daily phone reminders to text Carl encouragement because her brain was so rewired by betrayal that thinking positive thoughts about him required literal alarms. Consistency compounds connection. What you feed grows. And your spouse is getting the leftovers after everyone else gets your best.

They reveal three investments that build marriage safety: your healthiest thoughts (stop thinking ABOUT your spouse, start thinking FOR them), your most intentional time (your schedule is a receipt showing what you actually value), and yourself (you can't give what you don't have). Carl starts every morning thinking "What does my beautiful wife need today?" before checking his phone. Laura's lock screen says "My husband is obsessed with me" to rewire her traumatized brain. Their non-negotiable 6:30pm walk: 10 minutes her, 10 minutes him, no phones.

The confrontation that will expose you: "What's your most dominant thought about your marriage?" Not what you say in therapy, the actual thought loop running 24/7. Because as Carl learned: "My dominant thought for years was 'I've messed this up and it's matter of time before it explodes.' I got exactly what I thought."

The truth nobody wants to hear: You didn't "fall out of love." You stopped choosing to invest. You didn't "grow apart." You fed different things. Warning: This episode will challenge the dad using "I'm too busy" as an excuse and the mom using "I'm too selfless" as a shield for staying stuck.

Seven-day challenge Carl guarantees will transform your marriage: Every morning for seven days, choose one generous thought about your spouse and do one small action from that thought. Small investments made consistently build a foundation nothing can touch.

—----

Follow Carl: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

—---

CHAPTERS:

00:00 - 47 Years Old: What We're Convinced About

05:12 - Investment #1: Your Healthiest Thoughts

12:35 - Laura's Daily Text Reminders

17:29 - What's Your Most Dominant Thought?

24:16 - Investment #2: Your Most Intentional Time

30:45 - You Didn't Fall Out of Love

36:08 - Investment #3: Invest in Yourself

41:52 - Why Moms Must Put Themselves First

47:33 - Seven-Day Challenge: Be the Solution

52:14 - Outpace Each Other to Change

55:40 - Proof Not Ideas: Show Me Your Schedule

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this honest conversation, Carl and Laura Lentz rip open the facade of "perfect marriages" to expose the unspoken epidemic: couples who love each other but can't stand being in the same room. Drawing from their own marriage reconstruction after losing everything publicly, they reveal why "liking" your spouse is actually harder—and more important—than loving them.

Carl shares the moment five years ago when Laura looked him in the eye and said "I hate you right now," while Laura opens up about how they went from tit-for-tat scorekeeping to becoming best friends who can't wait to get home to each other. They expose the comfortable lie that love alone keeps marriages together, when the brutal truth is: without "like," you're just roommates with rings.

From the Ben Franklin marriage hack that rewires your brain to like your spouse again, to why Carl leaves hats scattered across the house like breadcrumbs and Laura just stopped caring, this episode demolishes the Instagram marriage fantasy. They reveal why successful couples make "reasonable concessions" (translation: accepting your spouse's annoying traits because you actually like them), how doing favors for someone literally changes your brain chemistry to like them more, and why Carl starts every single day texting Laura before checking anything else.

The frame that changed everything: Love is a commitment you make once. Like is a choice you make daily. And if you're sitting there thinking "I love my spouse but..." while your partner's jokes don't make you laugh anymore and their presence feels like work, this conversation reveals the exact path back to actually enjoying the person you're building a life with.

Warning: This episode will challenge couples who've accepted mediocrity as "just how marriage is" and may trigger those who use love as an excuse to avoid the harder work of actually liking their spouse.

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Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

---

CHAPTERS:

00:00 - "I Love You But I Don't Like You Right Now"

00:27 - Love Is Easy, Like Takes Work

01:14 - You Can't Fall Out of Love (You Just Stopped Thinking)

02:26 - The Week Everything Fell Apart

03:29 - Why Liking Each Other Saved Our Marriage

04:04 - From Fault-Finding to Beauty-Finding Glasses

10:00 - We're A Team: The Gift of Different Strengths

13:01 - Making Reasonable Concessions (Carl's Hat Trail)

16:49 - The Ben Franklin Marriage Hack

19:56 - Our Actions Shape Our Feelings

21:00 - Do Nice Things to Like Them (Not the Other Way Around)

23:02 - Laura's Text Reminders to Encourage Carl

25:03 - Carl's Daily Morning Text Ritual

26:20 - What Have I Done For Her Lately?

27:01 - Compassionate Curiosity Builds Connection

28:02 - Rupture, Repair, Build Cycle

30:38 - The Like Is What Makes Marriage Fun

31:43 - What Might I Discover About You Today?

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Have you ever looked at your relationship or your spouse and quietly wondered, did I settle? Most people think settling means picking the wrong person, but it usually means somebody has stopped growing. In this episode of Lights On, we make the case that settling starts in the mirror, not your marriage.

We explore what settling really means, how to avoid it, and how to reignite the spark in your relationship. We discuss the importance of self-growth, curiosity, and novelty in keeping love alive. We also share practical challenges to help you and your partner reconnect and grow together.

Featuring:

Carl Lentz https://instagram.com/carllentz

Laura Lentz https://instagram.com/lauralentz

Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction: Did I Settle? 01:28 - The Danger of Unspoken Thoughts 03:05 - Do Women Settle More Than Men? 04:47 - Have You Stopped Surprising Each Other? 06:28 - Are You Being the Right Person? 07:30 - The 5-to-1 Ratio for a Thriving Relationship 09:03 - The Myth of the Perfect Partner 11:53 - The Importance of Novelty and Shared Goals 13:55 - The Power of Commitment 16:12 - What Settling Really Means 17:27 - Self-Care and its Impact on Your Relationship 21:30 - Did You Settle on You? 24:10 - Why Men Cheat: The Trap of Novelty 26:29 - The Four Horsemen of a Failing Marriage 28:01 - The Power of Micro-Surprises 32:35 - Redefining Intimacy 34:20 - How to Rebuild Intimacy 36:31 - Putting Your Marriage First 39:06 - Challenge 1: Consistent and Concrete Connection 41:21 - Challenge 2: Novelty Exploration

A huge thank you for tuning in to Lights On. We believe that when you grow, your love grows. And when you shrink, love suffocates. Keep your lights on.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What happens when one of the most influential pastors in America falls from grace? And what does redemption look like on the other side of scandal?

As lead pastor of Hillsong Church NYC, I preached to thousands every Sunday, counseled celebrities and athletes, and became the face of a new generation of church leadership. Then, in November 2020, everything came crashing down.

I was fired from Hillsong Church following revelations of moral failures and breaches of trust. What followed was a media firestorm—tabloid headlines, public shame, and the dismantling of everything I'd built over two decades of ministry. My marriage was on the brink. My reputation was destroyed. My calling was questioned.

But this isn't just a story about a fall. It's a story about what comes after.

In this conversation, I'm sitting down with my wife Laura, and our friends Mike and Natalie Todd from Transformation Church, to talk about everything. The scandal. The restoration process. The accountability. The pain our family endured. The friends who stayed. The critics who won't forgive. And the biggest question: Should I return to ministry?

We're not avoiding the hard questions. We're talking about disqualification, forgiveness, celebrity pastor culture, what real restoration looks like, and whether someone who failed publicly can lead again. This is raw, unfiltered, and honest.

Whether you believe in second chances or think some lines can't be uncrossed, this conversation matters. Because at the end of the day, we all mess up. The question is: what happens next?

—

—

Featuring:

Mike Todd

https://instagram.com/iammiketodd

Natalie Todd

https://instagram.com/natalietodd

Carl Lentz

https://instagram.com/carllentz

Laura Lentz

https://instagram.com/lauralentz

—

Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction: First Time on Stage in 5 Years

04:10 - The Importance of Friends in the Fire

09:03 - The Night Everything Changed

14:30 - Why Mike & Natalie Stepped In When Everyone Else Left

24:20 - Laura Speaks: Walking Through Public Scandal

32:40 - The Biggest Mistakes We Made & What We'd Change

37:10 - How We Rebuilt Our Marriage After Everything Fell Apart

41:25 - The Celebrity Pastor Problem Nobody Talks About

45:30 - Lessons From the Fire: What We Learned in the Darkness

49:15 - Don't Wait Until Everything's Burning Down

52:56 - Be the Church Outside the Building

54:33 - When Friends Saved Mike: The Spit Hit the Fan Story

58:23 - Final Prayer: Friends Who Step Into the Fire

—

A huge thank you to Mike and Natalie Todd for creating the space for this conversation.

Their friendship, grace, and willingness to step into the fire with us has been one of the greatest gifts of our lives. This is what real friendship looks like.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Want to submit questions? Email us at [email protected]!

In this episode of Lights On, Carl and Laura Lentz sit down with 24-year-old Phoebe Enterman, founder of Plana - the app that's quietly solving America's adoption crisis. Moving from Brisbane, Australia to Las Vegas with nothing but conviction, Phoebe reveals the shocking truth: while 2 million couples desperately wait to adopt, less than 1% of unplanned pregnancies result in adoption. She exposes how both Planned Parenthood's structure and the pro-life movement's judgment have failed women who need real help, not politics.

Laura and Phoebe dive deep into the reality facing women with unplanned pregnancies - from the 65% of Christian women who hide pregnancies from their church out of fear, to the Harvard study showing 80% of women reconsider abortion when fathers stay present. They demolish the myth that adoption isn't chosen due to lack of families (there are 36 waiting families for every adoptable infant) and reveal the real problem: women don't know adoption is even an option in the digital age.

From Phoebe's personal story of why her grandmother's teenage pregnancy drives her mission, to Carl's explosive take on Christians who picket abortion clinics but won't pay a single mother's rent, this conversation transcends the tired abortion debate. They unveil how Plana's beautiful, wellness-focused app is replacing crisis-branded shame with actual solutions - connecting women to families, resources, education, and support all in one place.

Warning: This episode challenges both pro-life advocates who stop caring after birth and pro-choice supporters who only offer one choice. If you're more invested in your political stance than actually helping women and babies, this conversation will make you uncomfortable.

Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/ Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

 Supported by Plana - https://plana.org/

CHAPTERS:

00:00 - Opening: Beyond Politics to Real Solutions

04:20 - Meet Phoebe: Why a 24-Year-Old Left Australia for This Mission

08:26 - The Personal Story Behind Plana

12:07 - Carl's "What's Your Name?" Moment on The View

15:36 - Inside an Unplanned Pregnancy: What Women Really Face

22:51 - The Church Problem: 65% Hide in Shame

27:05 - The Adoption Mystery: Less Than 1% When Millions Wait

32:16 - Why Adoption Lost to Better Marketing

38:59 - How Plana Works: The App Tour

43:15 - Planned Parenthood's Business Model vs. Plana's Approach

48:33 - The Father Factor: 80% Reconsider When Men Stay

52:40 - A Call to Churches: Beyond Voting to Action

57:14 - How to Support: The $9 Movement

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

When your husband's family enables his affair and makes you the villain, the betrayal cuts twice as deep. In this raw and essential episode, Carl and Laura Lentz tackle one of the most painful questions they've received: what do you do when your in-laws collude with the affair partner, feed them information, and blame you for the infidelity? Drawing from their own experience of distancing from family during recovery and counseling countless couples through ministry betrayal, they reveal why you don't owe anyone access to you during healing, how to take control of your narrative when everyone's telling a different story, and the exact boundaries you need to protect your recovery. Laura opens up about why they separated from Carl's family (not due to collusion, but for space to make decisions without outside opinions), while Carl exposes the insane pressure to control narratives in ministry contexts. They break down the brutal truth: if you're trying to help your in-laws grieve while you're still bleeding from betrayal, you're abandoning yourself. From wives being vilified by their husband's entire family to mothers developing relationships with affair partners, this conversation reveals why collusion is so common in ministry marriages and what to do about it. Plus: why Christian couples should stop being embarrassed about sex therapy, the difference between "fine" and "thrilling" intimacy, and how religious trauma keeps couples from having honest conversations about their sex lives. Whether you're the betrayed spouse dealing with toxic in-laws, trying to figure out if you should cut off family members who enabled infidelity, or wondering how to heal when everyone's against you, this episode gives you permission to disconnect from false narratives and reconnect with who you really are. Warning: This conversation challenges the evangelical pressure to "keep the peace" with family at all costs and may trigger those who've built their identity on being the peacemaker instead of protecting their own healing.

Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

CHAPTERS:

00:00:00 - Lights On: Introduction and Birthday Banter

00:02:22 - Sex Therapy for Christian Couples: Breaking the Taboo

00:08:34 - Letters from Our Readers Introduction

00:09:31 - Today's Topics: Family Collusion After Infidelity

00:09:55 - Defining Collusion: What It Means

00:11:05 - Reading the Listener Letter: Mother-in-Law Enabled the Affair

00:13:18 - Laura's Story: Why We Distanced from Carl's Family

00:14:28 - Ministry Betrayal: Narrative Control is Insane

00:19:40 - Step 1: Change Your Position - You Don't Owe Anyone Access

00:20:20 - Forgiveness Does Not Mean Friendship

00:21:14 - Secure Safety First Before Any Reintegration

00:22:39 - Require Full Disclosure, Not Drip Disclosure

00:26:24 - You Get to Define All the Relationships

00:27:18 - Family Boundary Contract with Clear Repair Requirements

00:33:36 - Picking the Right Therapist: Why Betrayal Trauma Specialists Matter

00:35:56 - Step 4: Your Husband Needs to Step Up and Set the Story Straight

00:37:01 - When a Man Gets Married, He Starts His Own Family

00:39:27 - Protecting Your Children: Who Gets to Tell Them What Happened

00:42:16 - Integrity Example: The Phone Call Story

00:43:54 - Disconnecting from False Narratives About Yourself

00:45:15 - Final Thoughts: Take Control Back One Step at a Time

Sponsors:

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In this urgent wake-up call, Carl and Laura Lentz expose the silent epidemic destroying modern life: consumption addiction. Drawing from their own dramatic reconstruction after public crisis and counseling countless people stuck in endless scrolling, they reveal why being the last to know current events is actually a power move, how "mental obesity" is filling your mind with garbage you don't need, and why your brain's unemployment is forcing it to find the worst possible jobs. Carl shares why he lost an hour to a Nicholas Cage conspiracy theory and immediately knew something was wrong, while Laura opens up about blocking all consumption just to survive her darkest season. They break down the brutal truth: if you're busy consuming, you're avoiding creating your actual life. From couples escaping each other through ESPN and Pinterest to parents teaching their kids that presence means distraction, this episode exposes why creation is the only path to peace. They reveal the frame that changed everything: remove 30% of what you consume and watch your life transform. Whether you're a Karen policing hiking trails because you have nothing else going on, a virtue signaler who cares about issues for exactly one post, or someone comparing your life to people you don't even like, this conversation reveals why that phone in your hand might be the very thing keeping you stuck. Warning: This episode challenges the cultural addiction to having opinions on everything and may trigger those who've built their entire identity on commentary instead of creation.

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Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

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CHAPTERS:

00:00 - The Quiet Revolution: Creation Over Consumption

01:42 - Why We're Always the Last to Know

03:04 - Mental Obesity Is Real

04:45 - Give Your Brain a Job or It Finds the Worst One

08:01 - Sobriety Isn't the Goal, Building Life Is

10:44 - Why Successful People Never Know What's Happening

13:19 - The Orchestra Story: Build Something Undeniable

15:01 - When Your Hands Are Free, Your Mind Fills It

18:29 - 77% of You Are Consuming Passively

21:08 - Identity Shift: Stop Being Who You Observe

24:57 - The IKEA Effect and Creation Reward

27:52 - Three Signs You're Over-Consuming

31:43 - Nobody Doing Better Than You Will Hate You

34:45 - Create Before You Consume Rule

37:27 - The Parent Phone Problem

40:03 - Collaborate With Your Spouse on Something Creative

42:43 - Carl's Rehab Painting Breakdown

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this crucial episode of Lights On, Carl and Laura Lentz provide a survival guide for women navigating the aftermath of betrayal. Drawing from their reconstruction journey and counseling hundreds of couples, they reveal the six essential steps every betrayed spouse needs to take immediately after discovering infidelity. Laura shares her own early choices - from refusing to weaponize shame despite having every right to, to her intensive identity work at OnSite that revealed she'd lost herself long before the affair. They expose the dangerous trap of trying to police your spouse's recovery while ignoring your own healing, why poorly trained therapists can do more harm than good, and the power move of creating firm boundaries with real consequences. From why separation isn't punishment but protection for your nervous system, to the surprising statistic that shame-based communication cuts reconciliation rates by 50%, this episode is required listening for any woman asking "What now?" after betrayal. Whether you're deciding to stay or go, these six steps ensure you're making that choice from strength, not trauma. Warning: This episode challenges the common advice to "just forgive and move on" and may trigger those invested in remaining victims of their circumstances.

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Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

----

Supported by God Behind Bars

https://godbehindbars.com

Supported by Plana

https://plana.org/

----

CHAPTERS:

00:00 - What Every Betrayed Woman Needs To Know

01:10 - Our Email: [email protected]

03:12 - What She CAN'T Do (Stop Being A Shame Dealer)

05:22 - "Shame Corrodes The Part That Believes We Can Change"

08:06 - Why Shame Cuts Recovery Success By 50%

09:56 - Step 1: Get The RIGHT Therapist (Not All Are Equal)

11:12 - Warning: Bad Therapists Can Make Things Worse

16:45 - God Behind Bars Partnership

17:23 - Step 2: Create Separation For Your Nervous System

19:30 - "Safety Must Precede Intimacy"

22:51 - Step 3: Clear Expectations & Boundaries

27:26 - Step 4: Be Firm On Consequences

33:22 - Step 5: Invite Trusted Eyes & Ears

38:21 - Plana.org Partnership

38:59 - Step 6: Work On Yourself (The Game-Changer)

39:52 - "The Betrayed Partner Rebuilds Identity"

42:30 - Your Action Plan: Tangible Next Steps

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