In this honest conversation, Carl and Laura Lentz rip open the facade of "perfect marriages" to expose the unspoken epidemic: couples who love each other but can't stand being in the same room. Drawing from their own marriage reconstruction after losing everything publicly, they reveal why "liking" your spouse is actually harder—and more important—than loving them.

Carl shares the moment five years ago when Laura looked him in the eye and said "I hate you right now," while Laura opens up about how they went from tit-for-tat scorekeeping to becoming best friends who can't wait to get home to each other. They expose the comfortable lie that love alone keeps marriages together, when the brutal truth is: without "like," you're just roommates with rings.

From the Ben Franklin marriage hack that rewires your brain to like your spouse again, to why Carl leaves hats scattered across the house like breadcrumbs and Laura just stopped caring, this episode demolishes the Instagram marriage fantasy. They reveal why successful couples make "reasonable concessions" (translation: accepting your spouse's annoying traits because you actually like them), how doing favors for someone literally changes your brain chemistry to like them more, and why Carl starts every single day texting Laura before checking anything else.

The frame that changed everything: Love is a commitment you make once. Like is a choice you make daily. And if you're sitting there thinking "I love my spouse but..." while your partner's jokes don't make you laugh anymore and their presence feels like work, this conversation reveals the exact path back to actually enjoying the person you're building a life with.

Warning: This episode will challenge couples who've accepted mediocrity as "just how marriage is" and may trigger those who use love as an excuse to avoid the harder work of actually liking their spouse.

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Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

---

CHAPTERS:

00:00 - "I Love You But I Don't Like You Right Now"

00:27 - Love Is Easy, Like Takes Work

01:14 - You Can't Fall Out of Love (You Just Stopped Thinking)

02:26 - The Week Everything Fell Apart

03:29 - Why Liking Each Other Saved Our Marriage

04:04 - From Fault-Finding to Beauty-Finding Glasses

10:00 - We're A Team: The Gift of Different Strengths

13:01 - Making Reasonable Concessions (Carl's Hat Trail)

16:49 - The Ben Franklin Marriage Hack

19:56 - Our Actions Shape Our Feelings

21:00 - Do Nice Things to Like Them (Not the Other Way Around)

23:02 - Laura's Text Reminders to Encourage Carl

25:03 - Carl's Daily Morning Text Ritual

26:20 - What Have I Done For Her Lately?

27:01 - Compassionate Curiosity Builds Connection

28:02 - Rupture, Repair, Build Cycle

30:38 - The Like Is What Makes Marriage Fun

31:43 - What Might I Discover About You Today?

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Have you ever looked at your relationship or your spouse and quietly wondered, did I settle? Most people think settling means picking the wrong person, but it usually means somebody has stopped growing. In this episode of Lights On, we make the case that settling starts in the mirror, not your marriage.

We explore what settling really means, how to avoid it, and how to reignite the spark in your relationship. We discuss the importance of self-growth, curiosity, and novelty in keeping love alive. We also share practical challenges to help you and your partner reconnect and grow together.

Featuring:

Carl Lentz https://instagram.com/carllentz

Laura Lentz https://instagram.com/lauralentz

Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction: Did I Settle? 01:28 - The Danger of Unspoken Thoughts 03:05 - Do Women Settle More Than Men? 04:47 - Have You Stopped Surprising Each Other? 06:28 - Are You Being the Right Person? 07:30 - The 5-to-1 Ratio for a Thriving Relationship 09:03 - The Myth of the Perfect Partner 11:53 - The Importance of Novelty and Shared Goals 13:55 - The Power of Commitment 16:12 - What Settling Really Means 17:27 - Self-Care and its Impact on Your Relationship 21:30 - Did You Settle on You? 24:10 - Why Men Cheat: The Trap of Novelty 26:29 - The Four Horsemen of a Failing Marriage 28:01 - The Power of Micro-Surprises 32:35 - Redefining Intimacy 34:20 - How to Rebuild Intimacy 36:31 - Putting Your Marriage First 39:06 - Challenge 1: Consistent and Concrete Connection 41:21 - Challenge 2: Novelty Exploration

A huge thank you for tuning in to Lights On. We believe that when you grow, your love grows. And when you shrink, love suffocates. Keep your lights on.

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What happens when one of the most influential pastors in America falls from grace? And what does redemption look like on the other side of scandal?

As lead pastor of Hillsong Church NYC, I preached to thousands every Sunday, counseled celebrities and athletes, and became the face of a new generation of church leadership. Then, in November 2020, everything came crashing down.

I was fired from Hillsong Church following revelations of moral failures and breaches of trust. What followed was a media firestorm—tabloid headlines, public shame, and the dismantling of everything I'd built over two decades of ministry. My marriage was on the brink. My reputation was destroyed. My calling was questioned.

But this isn't just a story about a fall. It's a story about what comes after.

In this conversation, I'm sitting down with my wife Laura, and our friends Mike and Natalie Todd from Transformation Church, to talk about everything. The scandal. The restoration process. The accountability. The pain our family endured. The friends who stayed. The critics who won't forgive. And the biggest question: Should I return to ministry?

We're not avoiding the hard questions. We're talking about disqualification, forgiveness, celebrity pastor culture, what real restoration looks like, and whether someone who failed publicly can lead again. This is raw, unfiltered, and honest.

Whether you believe in second chances or think some lines can't be uncrossed, this conversation matters. Because at the end of the day, we all mess up. The question is: what happens next?

—

—

Featuring:

Mike Todd

https://instagram.com/iammiketodd

Natalie Todd

https://instagram.com/natalietodd

Carl Lentz

https://instagram.com/carllentz

Laura Lentz

https://instagram.com/lauralentz

—

Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction: First Time on Stage in 5 Years

04:10 - The Importance of Friends in the Fire

09:03 - The Night Everything Changed

14:30 - Why Mike & Natalie Stepped In When Everyone Else Left

24:20 - Laura Speaks: Walking Through Public Scandal

32:40 - The Biggest Mistakes We Made & What We'd Change

37:10 - How We Rebuilt Our Marriage After Everything Fell Apart

41:25 - The Celebrity Pastor Problem Nobody Talks About

45:30 - Lessons From the Fire: What We Learned in the Darkness

49:15 - Don't Wait Until Everything's Burning Down

52:56 - Be the Church Outside the Building

54:33 - When Friends Saved Mike: The Spit Hit the Fan Story

58:23 - Final Prayer: Friends Who Step Into the Fire

—

A huge thank you to Mike and Natalie Todd for creating the space for this conversation.

Their friendship, grace, and willingness to step into the fire with us has been one of the greatest gifts of our lives. This is what real friendship looks like.

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Want to submit questions? Email us at [email protected]!

In this episode of Lights On, Carl and Laura Lentz sit down with 24-year-old Phoebe Enterman, founder of Plana - the app that's quietly solving America's adoption crisis. Moving from Brisbane, Australia to Las Vegas with nothing but conviction, Phoebe reveals the shocking truth: while 2 million couples desperately wait to adopt, less than 1% of unplanned pregnancies result in adoption. She exposes how both Planned Parenthood's structure and the pro-life movement's judgment have failed women who need real help, not politics.

Laura and Phoebe dive deep into the reality facing women with unplanned pregnancies - from the 65% of Christian women who hide pregnancies from their church out of fear, to the Harvard study showing 80% of women reconsider abortion when fathers stay present. They demolish the myth that adoption isn't chosen due to lack of families (there are 36 waiting families for every adoptable infant) and reveal the real problem: women don't know adoption is even an option in the digital age.

From Phoebe's personal story of why her grandmother's teenage pregnancy drives her mission, to Carl's explosive take on Christians who picket abortion clinics but won't pay a single mother's rent, this conversation transcends the tired abortion debate. They unveil how Plana's beautiful, wellness-focused app is replacing crisis-branded shame with actual solutions - connecting women to families, resources, education, and support all in one place.

Warning: This episode challenges both pro-life advocates who stop caring after birth and pro-choice supporters who only offer one choice. If you're more invested in your political stance than actually helping women and babies, this conversation will make you uncomfortable.

Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/ Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

 Supported by Plana - https://plana.org/

CHAPTERS:

00:00 - Opening: Beyond Politics to Real Solutions

04:20 - Meet Phoebe: Why a 24-Year-Old Left Australia for This Mission

08:26 - The Personal Story Behind Plana

12:07 - Carl's "What's Your Name?" Moment on The View

15:36 - Inside an Unplanned Pregnancy: What Women Really Face

22:51 - The Church Problem: 65% Hide in Shame

27:05 - The Adoption Mystery: Less Than 1% When Millions Wait

32:16 - Why Adoption Lost to Better Marketing

38:59 - How Plana Works: The App Tour

43:15 - Planned Parenthood's Business Model vs. Plana's Approach

48:33 - The Father Factor: 80% Reconsider When Men Stay

52:40 - A Call to Churches: Beyond Voting to Action

57:14 - How to Support: The $9 Movement

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

When your husband's family enables his affair and makes you the villain, the betrayal cuts twice as deep. In this raw and essential episode, Carl and Laura Lentz tackle one of the most painful questions they've received: what do you do when your in-laws collude with the affair partner, feed them information, and blame you for the infidelity? Drawing from their own experience of distancing from family during recovery and counseling countless couples through ministry betrayal, they reveal why you don't owe anyone access to you during healing, how to take control of your narrative when everyone's telling a different story, and the exact boundaries you need to protect your recovery. Laura opens up about why they separated from Carl's family (not due to collusion, but for space to make decisions without outside opinions), while Carl exposes the insane pressure to control narratives in ministry contexts. They break down the brutal truth: if you're trying to help your in-laws grieve while you're still bleeding from betrayal, you're abandoning yourself. From wives being vilified by their husband's entire family to mothers developing relationships with affair partners, this conversation reveals why collusion is so common in ministry marriages and what to do about it. Plus: why Christian couples should stop being embarrassed about sex therapy, the difference between "fine" and "thrilling" intimacy, and how religious trauma keeps couples from having honest conversations about their sex lives. Whether you're the betrayed spouse dealing with toxic in-laws, trying to figure out if you should cut off family members who enabled infidelity, or wondering how to heal when everyone's against you, this episode gives you permission to disconnect from false narratives and reconnect with who you really are. Warning: This conversation challenges the evangelical pressure to "keep the peace" with family at all costs and may trigger those who've built their identity on being the peacemaker instead of protecting their own healing.

Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

CHAPTERS:

00:00:00 - Lights On: Introduction and Birthday Banter

00:02:22 - Sex Therapy for Christian Couples: Breaking the Taboo

00:08:34 - Letters from Our Readers Introduction

00:09:31 - Today's Topics: Family Collusion After Infidelity

00:09:55 - Defining Collusion: What It Means

00:11:05 - Reading the Listener Letter: Mother-in-Law Enabled the Affair

00:13:18 - Laura's Story: Why We Distanced from Carl's Family

00:14:28 - Ministry Betrayal: Narrative Control is Insane

00:19:40 - Step 1: Change Your Position - You Don't Owe Anyone Access

00:20:20 - Forgiveness Does Not Mean Friendship

00:21:14 - Secure Safety First Before Any Reintegration

00:22:39 - Require Full Disclosure, Not Drip Disclosure

00:26:24 - You Get to Define All the Relationships

00:27:18 - Family Boundary Contract with Clear Repair Requirements

00:33:36 - Picking the Right Therapist: Why Betrayal Trauma Specialists Matter

00:35:56 - Step 4: Your Husband Needs to Step Up and Set the Story Straight

00:37:01 - When a Man Gets Married, He Starts His Own Family

00:39:27 - Protecting Your Children: Who Gets to Tell Them What Happened

00:42:16 - Integrity Example: The Phone Call Story

00:43:54 - Disconnecting from False Narratives About Yourself

00:45:15 - Final Thoughts: Take Control Back One Step at a Time

Sponsors:

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DripDrop is offering podcast listeners 20% off your first order! Go to dripdrop.com and use promo code LIGHTS.

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In this urgent wake-up call, Carl and Laura Lentz expose the silent epidemic destroying modern life: consumption addiction. Drawing from their own dramatic reconstruction after public crisis and counseling countless people stuck in endless scrolling, they reveal why being the last to know current events is actually a power move, how "mental obesity" is filling your mind with garbage you don't need, and why your brain's unemployment is forcing it to find the worst possible jobs. Carl shares why he lost an hour to a Nicholas Cage conspiracy theory and immediately knew something was wrong, while Laura opens up about blocking all consumption just to survive her darkest season. They break down the brutal truth: if you're busy consuming, you're avoiding creating your actual life. From couples escaping each other through ESPN and Pinterest to parents teaching their kids that presence means distraction, this episode exposes why creation is the only path to peace. They reveal the frame that changed everything: remove 30% of what you consume and watch your life transform. Whether you're a Karen policing hiking trails because you have nothing else going on, a virtue signaler who cares about issues for exactly one post, or someone comparing your life to people you don't even like, this conversation reveals why that phone in your hand might be the very thing keeping you stuck. Warning: This episode challenges the cultural addiction to having opinions on everything and may trigger those who've built their entire identity on commentary instead of creation.

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Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

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CHAPTERS:

00:00 - The Quiet Revolution: Creation Over Consumption

01:42 - Why We're Always the Last to Know

03:04 - Mental Obesity Is Real

04:45 - Give Your Brain a Job or It Finds the Worst One

08:01 - Sobriety Isn't the Goal, Building Life Is

10:44 - Why Successful People Never Know What's Happening

13:19 - The Orchestra Story: Build Something Undeniable

15:01 - When Your Hands Are Free, Your Mind Fills It

18:29 - 77% of You Are Consuming Passively

21:08 - Identity Shift: Stop Being Who You Observe

24:57 - The IKEA Effect and Creation Reward

27:52 - Three Signs You're Over-Consuming

31:43 - Nobody Doing Better Than You Will Hate You

34:45 - Create Before You Consume Rule

37:27 - The Parent Phone Problem

40:03 - Collaborate With Your Spouse on Something Creative

42:43 - Carl's Rehab Painting Breakdown

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this crucial episode of Lights On, Carl and Laura Lentz provide a survival guide for women navigating the aftermath of betrayal. Drawing from their reconstruction journey and counseling hundreds of couples, they reveal the six essential steps every betrayed spouse needs to take immediately after discovering infidelity. Laura shares her own early choices - from refusing to weaponize shame despite having every right to, to her intensive identity work at OnSite that revealed she'd lost herself long before the affair. They expose the dangerous trap of trying to police your spouse's recovery while ignoring your own healing, why poorly trained therapists can do more harm than good, and the power move of creating firm boundaries with real consequences. From why separation isn't punishment but protection for your nervous system, to the surprising statistic that shame-based communication cuts reconciliation rates by 50%, this episode is required listening for any woman asking "What now?" after betrayal. Whether you're deciding to stay or go, these six steps ensure you're making that choice from strength, not trauma. Warning: This episode challenges the common advice to "just forgive and move on" and may trigger those invested in remaining victims of their circumstances.

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Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

----

Supported by God Behind Bars

https://godbehindbars.com

Supported by Plana

https://plana.org/

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CHAPTERS:

00:00 - What Every Betrayed Woman Needs To Know

01:10 - Our Email: [email protected]

03:12 - What She CAN'T Do (Stop Being A Shame Dealer)

05:22 - "Shame Corrodes The Part That Believes We Can Change"

08:06 - Why Shame Cuts Recovery Success By 50%

09:56 - Step 1: Get The RIGHT Therapist (Not All Are Equal)

11:12 - Warning: Bad Therapists Can Make Things Worse

16:45 - God Behind Bars Partnership

17:23 - Step 2: Create Separation For Your Nervous System

19:30 - "Safety Must Precede Intimacy"

22:51 - Step 3: Clear Expectations & Boundaries

27:26 - Step 4: Be Firm On Consequences

33:22 - Step 5: Invite Trusted Eyes & Ears

38:21 - Plana.org Partnership

38:59 - Step 6: Work On Yourself (The Game-Changer)

39:52 - "The Betrayed Partner Rebuilds Identity"

42:30 - Your Action Plan: Tangible Next Steps

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this raw and essential episode of Lights On, Carl Lentz delivers the uncomfortable truths every man needs to hear after betraying his marriage. Drawing from his own journey through infidelity and the reconstruction of his marriage with Laura, Carl breaks down the exact roadmap that works - and exposes what doesn't. From why you should embrace lie detector tests to the power of having zero secrets, zero private conversations, and zero contact with anyone who threatens your marriage, this episode is a masterclass in accountability. Carl reveals why forgiveness took Laura three years to give (and why he didn't need it to do the work), the 24-hour grace period they instituted for catching lies, and why your response to her triggers determines everything. He shares the canned response that saved him: "I hear you, I'm sorry, I'm not going anywhere." Whether you're dealing with a full disclosure, learning patience proportional to your years of deception, or understanding why "water under the bridge" is permanently off limits, this episode provides the blueprint for men serious about redemption. Warning: This episode will challenge men who want reconciliation without radical transparency and may trigger those still hiding behind privacy in marriage.

Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/ 

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

Supported by God Behind Bars https://godbehindbars.com

Supported by Plana https://plana.org/

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

00:49 - The Question Every Betrayer Asks

03:18 - What You CAN'T Do (Force, Heal, Convince)

05:44 - You're Not Looking For Forgiveness

08:01 - Laura: "It Took Me 3 Years To Forgive"

09:32 - The Full Disclosure Requirement

12:39 - Step 1: Be Honest About Everything

16:39 - The 24-Hour Grace Period For Lies

19:03 - Step 2: Zero Contact With The Qualifier

22:54 - God Behind Bars Partnership

28:41 - Step 3: No Private Conversations Ever

32:39 - Step 4: Patience With The Past (18-36 Months)

36:27 - Step 5: Extreme Grace When She's Triggered

39:55 - "I Hear You, I'm Sorry, I'm Not Going Anywhere"

42:07 - Plana.org Partnership

42:52 - Step 6: Live With Zero Secrets

49:27 - Why Lie Detectors Are Your Friend

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this brutally honest episode of Lights On, Carl and Laura Lentz expose the one factor sabotaging most couples' healing from infidelity: alcohol. Drawing from their own reconstruction journey and counseling countless couples through betrayal, they reveal why drinking delays recovery, blocks the exact brain functions needed to rebuild trust, and turns an already burning house into an inferno. Carl shares why he hasn't had a drink in over 2 years after realizing alcohol was filling the same void his addictions once did, while Laura opens up about how drinking amplified her triggers and suspicions. They break down the science: how alcohol reduces frontal lobe function (killing empathy and self-control), activates fight mode in your amygdala (making everything a threat), and blocks oxytocin (the bonding hormone you desperately need). From couples throwing punches after two drinks to the betrayed spouse pouring gasoline on their own fire, this episode exposes why any couple keeping alcohol in the picture struggles significantly more. Whether you're the betrayer numbing guilt or the betrayed drowning pain, this conversation reveals why that glass of wine might be the very thing keeping you stuck. Warning: This episode challenges the cultural norm that alcohol helps you "loosen up" and may trigger those committed to avoiding the real work of healing.

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Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

----

Supported by God Behind Bars

https://godbehindbars.com

Supported by Plana

https://plana.org/

----

CHAPTERS:

00:00 - Why Alcohol Makes Healing Impossible

03:16 - The Truth: Betrayal Pain Never Fully Goes Away

05:47 - Why Couples Who Drink Struggle MORE

10:15 - Trading One Addiction For Another

14:36 - "I Lost Everything - Don't Take My Wine!"

21:47 - We Found ZERO Studies Showing Alcohol Helps

23:43 - Your Brain On Alcohol: The 3 Effects

24:44 - God Behind Bars Partnership

29:15 - When Drinking Leads To Physical Fights

35:34 - "Sit In Your Sh*t" - Rehab Wisdom

40:08 - "Alcohol Doesn't Help You Feel, It Helps You Rehearse"

43:51 - Plana.org Partnership

49:07 - Laura's Message To Women In Pain

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this brutally honest episode of Lights On, Carl and Laura Lentz sit down with James Sexton, one of America's most renowned divorce attorneys, for a conversation that could save your marriage. After 25 years representing high-profile divorces, James reveals the three guaranteed ways men destroy their marriages - and why 56% of all marriages end in his office. This isn't your typical relationship advice; it's a masterclass in reverse psychology from someone who's seen thousands of marriages collapse.

James breaks down the death spiral that leads couples from "I do" to "I'm done," the shocking statistic that 86% of divorced people remarry within 5 years, and why most people love their choices more than their children. From the simple act of "seeing" your spouse to the dangerous habit of keeping score, this conversation exposes the patterns that predict divorce with startling accuracy.

Whether you're newlyweds, struggling in your marriage, or simply want to understand what really makes relationships work, this episode delivers hard truths wrapped in hope. Carl and Laura share their own journey through infidelity and recovery, while James provides the roadmap to avoid becoming another statistic.

Warning: This episode contains frank discussions about marriage failure, infidelity, and the kind of honest conversations most couples never have about what it really takes to stay together.

Follow Carl at: https://www.instagram.com/carllentz/

Follow Laura at: https://www.instagram.com/lauralentz/

Follow James at: https://www.instagram.com/nycdivorcelawyer/

Supported by God Behind Bars - https://godbehindbars.com

Supported by Plana - https://plana.org/

CHAPTERS:

00:00 - INTRO

02:08 - The Shocking Marriage Statistics Nobody Talks About

11:25 - The 3 Marriage Killers Every Couple Does

20:10 - God Behind Bars Partnership

20:47 - Stop Seeing Your Wife: The First Marriage Destroyer

26:41 - Frame Everything Critically: The Communication Killer

34:55 - Keep Score: The Transactional Marriage Trap

40:25 - Plana.org Partnership

41:06 - The Death Spiral: How Marriages Collapse Slowly, Then All at Once

49:23 - When Do You Feel Most Loved? Laura's Answer Will Surprise You

57:38 - Marriage as Ecosystem: Why It's Not About Fairness

1:04:50 - Who Gets Screwed Most in Divorce? The Uncomfortable Truth

1:09:32 - Rolling Your Eyes: The Silent Marriage Killer

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.