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239 – Linux For The Rest Of Us
The Hyperconvergence Of Virtual Machines And Containers
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238 – Linux For The Rest Of Us
Daniel
Hey Door and Bruce,
We got asked asked a couple of us who use ZFS our opinions on the article about Linus saying “don’t use ZFS.” So I thought I would also share my comments with you guys.
First of all, ZoL and ZoF and all of the other ZFS’ (MS is coming out with a port, and OSX has one, I believe) are using OpenZFS, which is not the same as Oracle ZFS. They took the last open source Sun version of ZFS and forked that. Oracle has since closed their ZFS implementation, so the code in oracle zfs has diverged from the code of OpenZFS. And what’s more, OpenZFS has many of the original Sun developers who invented ZFS for Sun, such as Matt Ahrens, working on the project.
Second, OpenZFS is under the Sun CDDL license, which is an opensource license. The GPL doesn’t play nicely with it, in the same manner as they don’t play nicely with the BSD or MIT or Apache licenses. Because the GPL (especially v3) is as vendor-lock-in-y as the best ms or apl licenses (or oracle, for that matter). So, not being a lawyer, I have to ask if litigous larry can sue a project like linux or freebsd for using an open source project, which openZFS is?
What I would ideally like to see is for someone to put together an OpenZFS foundation. That should be an umbrella organization that could protect anyone from lawsuits. (again, I am not a lawyer).
Also, regarding shared resource clustering, that concept has been around since the late 90s. I remember in 1998 or 1999, Mosix clusters were available. Basically, you had a kernel module that would run on all of your local machines, and donate their spare cycles to anyone with extra load needing more compute power. seti@home or folding@home have also been around for that length of time as well…
–b
Here is an Ars Technica article on Linus’ (and Greg KH’s) comments..It gives a good rundown of the some of the functions that ZFS brings to the table, and where Linus misspoke.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/01/linus-torvalds-zfs-statements-arent-right-heres-the-straight-dope/
Yes…I’m back. I wanted to respond to points you made to my email.
* First, the kernel belongs to Linus. I understand that, and I also understand that he has every right to say yay or nay to what goes into it. I have no problem with that aspect.
* I agree that the oracle lawyers can go after any and everyone, but honestly, if Linus is going to call out ZFS for the stain of oracle, then why doesn’t he also call out BTRFS? That too was an oracle property. In fact, oracle developed BTRFS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs), not just inherited it from Sun. As a matter of fact, does java in Linux violate that rule? After all, oracle is already suing google over it. So if you are going to set up the false dichotomy with ZFS of “why take that chance,” then why take that chance with BTRFS or java?
* BTRFS was Linux’s attempt to match ZFS, only it doesn’t work as well. I have seen demonstrations of multi disk zfs arrays where people would come up, and smash a drive running in the system. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1C6DELK7fc), and it was still running with one drive. They did another experiment where they completely wiped a drive, filled it with zeroes. Unfortunately, BTRFS lost data when the latter test was performed on it. So Linux wants an advanced filesystem, it’s just not there yet, while ZFS is a mature filesystem.
Door, your comment about “who needs ZFS? You may want ZFS but you don’t need ZFS sounds, to me, a lot like the current gun discussions. “You don’t need an AR-15,” or “you don’t need a magazine larger than 10 rounds.” But the people who make this determination know nothing about your lifestyle. The same with ZFS. I mean, my other choices are upload to the proprietary cloud or use a proprietary mass storage device, which should offend your GPL sensibilities. I do have pictures of my kids and grandkids that I want to keep, as well as other data. Invoices, forms, and so forth. Yes, a lot of it is disposable, but there are some things that I want to keep, and I want those as protected as humanly possible. Based on your comments about it “not doing anything spectacular,” I can surmise that you have never looked at it. And if it is because of oracle’s lawyers, see the notes above on BTRFS.
As for the 8GB of RAM in a box, I ran my FreeNAS with ZFS and a GUI middleware layer for a long time on 4GB. And come on, it’s 2020. It should be getting harder to find a machine with less resources than this. Hell, ask Rich. Even RPis and other SBCs ship with at least 4GB of RAM in this day and age.
You said you were a residential person, well, so am I. My personal laptop and my home desktop runs FreeBSD (with ZFS), plus I have a FreeNAS.
Bruce, I use snapshotting both on my laptop and my desktop. I have cron jobs set up that do it automatically. I take snapshots regularly, and they auto fade. So I have over 350 snapshots, and they have saved my bacon on more than one occasion, most recently when firefox crashed, lost it’s mind and lost my tabs with it. So yeah, I will take automated snapshots (which start out at zero length) to be able to roll back a mistake. Yes, I also do backups, but it is much easier to copy a directory from the .zfs directory on the local machine. You speak of mirroring across the network. This is the same thing on the local machine. You can also do what they call zfs send/zfs recv and push the data to other zfs datasets locally or on other machines. It’s like rsyncing, but about 1600 times faster.
There is another advantage to snapshots that you may not have considered. I have been a Unix and Linux sysadmin for almost 26 years. One of the things that you can do with ZFS, having had many system updates go sideways, is to be able to completely roll back if something goes wrong during an upgrade. I have had this happen on FreeBSD and rolled back to the previous boot environment. On Linux, I was stuck manually undoing the broken parts.
Finally, Door, I understand what you are saying about the GPL. The problem is that it is only free for certain values of freedom. According to rms, and his value of freedom, if I decide to sell my software that I wrote, or use proprietary software (like nVidia drivers), or if I modify a piece of GPL software to make it work better, I have to release it as GPL. That is not really freedom… I am the parent of adult children. True freedom includes the freedom to make decisions that I don’t agree with. If I tried to stop them from making bad (in my opinion) decisions, then I would be restricting my freedom. That is why I personally prefer the BSD license. Now having said that, you do have the freedom to use the GPL, and I still do use GPL software.
Anyhow, sorry this is so long, but I wanted to cover the salient points that you made in response to my first email.
Regards,
——
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/01/east-texas-courts-are-back-on-top-for-patent-lawsuits/
https://www.zdnet.com/article/vpns-will-change-forever-with-the-arrival-of-wireguard-into-linux/
https://darknetdiaries.com/
https://www.aarp.org/podcasts/the-perfect-scam/
https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/2/4/21122211/iowa-caucus-smartphone-app-disaster-explaine
https://remmina.org
https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-sshfs-to-mount-remote-file-systems-over-ssh
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237 – Linux For The Rest Of Us
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From: Brad
Subject: OpenZFS, oracle zfs, and Linus
Hey Door and Bruce,
We got asked a couple of us who use ZFS our opinions on the article about Linus saying “don’t use ZFS.” So I thought I would also share my comments with you guys.
First of all, ZoL and ZoF and all of the other ZFS’ (MS is coming out with a port, and OSX has one, I believe) are using OpenZFS, which is not the same as Oracle ZFS. They took the last open source Sun version of ZFS and forked that. Oracle has since closed their ZFS implementation, so the code in oracle zfs has diverged from the code of OpenZFS. And what’s more, OpenZFS has many of the original Sun developers who invented ZFS for Sun, such as Matt Ahrens, working on the project.
Second, OpenZFS is under the Sun CDDL license, which is an opensource license. The GPL doesn’t play nicely with it, in the same manner as they don’t play nicely with the BSD or MIT or Apache licenses. Because the GPL (especially v3) is as vendor-lock-in-y as the best ms or apl licenses (or oracle, for that matter). So, not being a lawyer, I have to ask if litigous larry can sue a project like linux or freebsd for using an open source project, which openZFS is?
What I would ideally like to see is for someone to put together an OpenZFS foundation. That should be an umbrella organization that could protect anyone from lawsuits. (again, I am not a lawyer).
Also, regarding shared resource clustering, that concept has been around since the late 90s. I remember in 1998 or 1999, Mosix clusters were available. Basically, you had a kernel module that would run on all of your local machines, and donate their spare cycles to anyone with extra load needing more compute power. seti@home or folding@home have also been around for that length of time as well…
–b
Message Body:
Thanks,
Mark
Hi guys,
Thank you
Brian (Edinburgh Scotland)
Links:
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236 – Linux For The Rest Of Us
Make it a great day!
Thank you again and keep up the good work.
-Mario
Hello Door,
Just wanted to reach out and let you know that I really enjoyed listening to Show #231 and reading the imposter syndrome article, really resonated with me. Been Using linux for a while, since 2001.. setup samba servers, tacacs servers, Nagios servers etc.. but never feel like I know enough to talk about it or contribute, but that doesn’t stop me from listening to Linux for the Rest of Us, really love the show, you and bruce are doing an awesome job.
Thanks
Luis.
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235 – Linux For The Rest Of Us
Hi Door and Bruce,
I’m one of those younger persons who was put on the college path for getting into IT. I graduated with a degree in computer information systems, however I’m having trouble looking for tech positions, as I find that most require previous work experience in a related field. What would you guys say is a good position to start at? Currently I work as a sales representative for a large industrial supplies company. I thought about looking for a tech job there, but I’d have to relocate across the USA. Unfortunately we’re heavily tied into the Microsoft suite of programs, including on the back-end. This is a problem for me because I’m windows-illiterate.
Since it’s been a few years I’m a bit rusty with networking, and basically forgot all of the Java programming I’ve learned. Would you know of an efficient method of brushing up on these essential skills?
If you made it this far through the email, I thank you for your time. As to what niche I’m looking to fill, I’m unsure. Systems administrations would be my goal, but I gotta find a way to get there.
Best regards,
Robby
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234 – Linux For The Rest Of Us
HPR harassment contact address [email protected]
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233 – Linux For The Rest Of Us
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sonargnulinux/files/
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Help Eric Arduini and family
Hi,
I’ve recently started listening to your podcast and I think I’m now hooked and will be a frequent listener.
I’ve recently switched from Windows after using it mainly for my work as a Systems Technician. I’ve always been a multi platform user, for example jumping between Mac OSx, DEBIAN and the Raspberry Pi – I need too be well versed to keep up with my work and industry. I did try and give earlier versions of Debian (between 2009-2011) a try but always found stability problems and managed to keep crashing my system due to the manual steps and troubleshooting of installing specialised applications. However, this time round, I’m about 2 months in and have found the distro I’m using is very stable and the ease of installing applications is now a task that’s simpler. software from major companies is also now readily available on Linux I find also – like Spotify I’m using PopOS.
You mentioned in one of your podcasts, that you use something to keep track of all the podcast you listen to, can you recommend something which is useful to allow me to subscribe and listen to the podcast I do on my Debian distro?
Great work with the podcast which is filled with useful information.
Nicholas O’Sullivan
I’m just curious, my daughter is training to become a registered nurse and she said that they are now going to be using mattermost for some of there communication sessions.She asked me (her tech guy) if it’s safe to use and who can see the conversation and can they download conversations.And next thing I know is your speaking about your mattermost server?So if it’s not to much to ask, would I be allowed to join one of your groups and see with my own eyes what this mattermost is all about please. You can kick me off after a week if you like .
Thank you
Paul
Following up to being asked what podcasts I recommend here are a few:
* GNU World Order, a really unique Linux podcast that goes really deep into many different topics from different CLI tools, to people writing about their “Linux Origin Stories”.
* Darknet Diaries, bi-weekly episodes about different hacks done in the world and the people who do them. What I really enjoy about this one is the host normally interviews the people involved in the hacks, so you can get true prospective behind why someone did something they did.
* Hacker Public Radio, a grab bag of many different people making podcasts about anything and everything. Normally the content is in some way tech related, but not always. Anyone can record a podcast and be published on their feed.
Also on a quick note on Matrix: one of my favorite features is its ability to bridge out and chat to other protocols/applications. It works with IRC, Slack, Discord, and many others to different degrees. Matrix is a very worth giving a shot.
– Rain
P.S. Ameridroid is my goto for buying Single Board Computers & accessories as well. Can’t recommend them enough for buying in the United States.
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Marc from Florida
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VSCodium/vscodium
Why Does This Exist
Microsoft’s downloads of Visual Studio Code are licensed under this not-FLOSS license and contain telemetry/tracking. According to this comment from a Visual Studio Code maintainer:
When we [Microsoft] build Visual Studio Code, we do exactly this. We clone the vscode repository, we lay down a customized product.json that has Microsoft specific functionality (telemetry, gallery, logo, etc.), and then produce a build that we release under our license.
When you clone and build from the vscode repo, none of these endpoints are configured in the default product.json. Therefore, you generate a “clean” build, without the Microsoft customizations, which is by default licensed under the MIT license
This repo exists so that you don’t have to download+build from source. The build scripts in this repo clone Microsoft’s vscode repo, run the build commands, and upload the resulting binaries to GitHub releases. These binaries are licensed under the MIT license. Telemetry is disabled.
https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium
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http://savmorspirits.com/our-signs/
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232 – Linux For The Rest Of Us
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sonargnulinux/files/
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Help Eric Arduini and family
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231 – Linux For The Rest Of Us
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sonargnulinux/files/
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Help Eric Arduini and family
First Open Source Silicon Root of Trust Revealed Aiming to make security more accessible and transparent, a new group has been launched to deliver what it said is the first open source silicon root of trust (RoT) design.
https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/05/google-opentitan-secure-chip/
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230 – Linux For The Rest Of Us
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sonargnulinux/files/
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Help Eric Arduini and family
Hi I agree with you regarding other Linux podcasts they also repeat the same info so if you listen to one don’t bother with the others.
All best
From: Jon
Message Body:
I wanted to take a moment to pass this along.
Jon-KT4KB
p.s I will miss 5150, one of a kind.
Message Body:
enjoy / tony – linux mint for us old guys
Fwd: rpm based distros on arm based hardware
First of it’s nice to hear your doing the show with another person again. It’s also nice to hear Bruce again. I enjoyed when you guys did “ramble on” (I think that’s what you called it) on the distro watch podcast. This seems like it’s going to be a lot like that.
So in episode 227 you made a comment that there weren’t any rpm distros that run on arm hardware.(and if I miss heard I apologize) I run Centos on my banana pi, and by the looks of it they also have build for the raspberry pi.
There are also arm builds for fedora
Opensuse runs on many different types of arm boards.
(again if I miss heard I apologize) I installed Centos on my banana pi so I could learn how to use a Red Hat based distro. I got it running, installed docker, pulled down an image of Etherpad, and now it’s basically an appliance. I don’t fiddle with it too much because it just works, and it’s an important part of the Linuxlugcast. It is how we do our show notes. Which is good, but at the same time, because it is serves such an important purpose I really can’t do any learning with it. I guess I should install it on another SBC if I really want to fiddle and learn.
Keep up the good work. I really like the direction that “Linux for the Rest of us” is going.
honkeymagoo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:ARM_Linux_distributions
https://distrowatch.com/search-mobile.php?ostype=All&category=All&origin=All&basedon=All¬basedon=None&desktop=All&architecture=arm&package=RPM&rolling=All&isosize=All&netinstall=All&language=All&defaultinit=All&status=Active#simple
https://www.ghacks.net/2019/10/26/manage-your-todo-txt-with-thunderbird-using-this-extension/
https://www.plasma-mobile.org/2019/10/25/Plasma-Mobile-Weekly-update-4.html
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel-gen9-gen11-clear&num=1
https://gitroyalty.com/?ref=producthunt
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