🎙️ Episode 59 – Jonathan Pageau: You’re Not Seeing Yourself Clearly

What if the way you see yourself is the very thing shaping your suffering… and your healing?

In this powerful conversation, I sit down once again with Jonathan Pageau to explore the role of images—not just in art or theology, but in the human soul. We dive into how distorted self-perception, pride, trauma, and identity all intersect… and what it actually takes to see yourself clearly.

Jonathan brings a symbolic and theological lens, challenging modern assumptions about self-esteem and emotional suffering. I bring a trauma-informed clinical perspective, grounded in my work as an EMDR therapist. Together, we wrestle with where those views align… and where they diverge.

This is not a surface-level conversation. It’s an honest exploration of truth, identity, and healing.

✅ In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How the “images” you carry about yourself shape your emotions and decisions
• Why distorted self-perception can lead to anxiety, burnout, and addiction
• Jonathan Pageau’s critique of the self-esteem movement
• The difference between pride-based suffering and trauma-based suffering
• How childhood experiences can “freeze” negative beliefs and identity
• Why truth alone isn’t always enough to heal trauma
• How faith, repentance, and psychological healing can work together
• A powerful metaphor from Jesus healing the paralytic—and what it reveals about healing

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💬 Comment Below:
Do you think most suffering comes from distorted thinking… or from unhealed wounds? Or both?

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’

About the Lion Counseling Podcast:
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps high-achieving Christian men break free from destructive patterns, heal from the past, and become the men they were created to be. Hosted by Mark Odland, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist, this podcast blends faith, psychology, and practical tools for real transformation.

New episodes drop every Tuesday.

🎙️ Episode 58: Sam Guzman | When Being a Good Man Isn’t Enough

He built one of the most influential platforms on Christian masculinity.
But behind the message… was a deeper realization:
Knowing what it means to be a man isn’t the same as becoming one.

In this episode, Mark Odland and Zack Carter sit down with Sam Guzman—Licensed Clinical Counselor-—and author of The Catholic Gentleman—to explore the gap between external strength and internal integration.

This conversation is relevant to men of various faiths, and goes beyond surface-level masculinity and into the real work most men avoid:
trauma, emotional shutdown, marriage struggles, and the parts of yourself that don’t agree with each other.

If you’ve ever felt like:
You’re winning at work but failing at home
You “know the right things” but still feel stuck
You’re trying to be strong… but something feels off
This episode is for you.

In this episode, you’ll learn:
✅ Why many high-performing men feel competent at work—but lost in relationships
✅ The difference between passive men, aggressive men… and integrated men
✅ The 3 most common ways men check out of their families
✅ How childhood wounds (like divorce) quietly shape your adult life
✅ Why men avoid therapy—and what finally breaks that resistance
✅ The truth about vulnerability (and when it actually creates strength)
✅ How trauma impacts your view of God, trust, and identity
✅ Why you can have multiple “versions” of yourself competing internally
✅ The real path to integration—and why it’s harder than most men expect
✅ How to lead your family without losing your emotional and spiritual core

📘 Get Mark’s Free Book:
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📚 Explore Mark’s books & resources:
https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

📞 Book a Clarity Call (Free Consultation):
https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’

About the Lion Counseling Podcast
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps high-achieving Christian men break destructive patterns, build emotional strength, and become the men God designed them to be—steady, disciplined, and free.
We integrate faith, psychology, EMDR, and real-world experience to give you practical tools for healing, leadership, and purpose.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.

🎙️ Episode 57: Ben "The Baker” Neumann | One Fight from the UFC… Then Everything Changed

What happens when a professional fighter questions whether his career aligns with his faith—and then finds clarity?

In this powerful conversation, Mark sits down with Ben “The Baker” Neumann—former MMA fighter, black belt in a Rickson Gracie lineage gym, and entrepreneur—to explore the deeper story behind his journey.

From growing up on a Midwest farm… to serving in Iraq… to stepping into the cage and building a professional MMA career with 15 wins, a title shot, and being just one fight away from the UFC—Ben’s path has been anything but ordinary.

Along the way, he wrestled with a critical question: Can I pursue this level of violence and still honor my Christian faith? What he discovered changed everything—and allowed him to compete with conviction, clarity, and purpose.

And then, something unexpected happened.

The nickname “The Baker”—which started as a fight gimmick—became his next calling. Today, he runs a high-quality bakery, channeling the same discipline, craftsmanship, and intensity he once brought to fighting into providing for his family and building something meaningful.
This episode is about more than fighting—it’s about identity, evolution, and becoming the man you’re called to be in every season of life.

✅ Lessons from farm life, discipline, and growing up in the Midwest
✅ How military service in Iraq shaped his mindset and resilience
✅ The journey to becoming a black belt in a Rickson Gracie lineage gym
✅ How Ben resolved the tension between Christian faith and professional fighting
✅ What it’s like to be one fight away from the UFC—and what it costs
✅ How a fight nickname turned into a full-time business and calling
✅ Why fatherhood reshaped his priorities and identity
✅ The tension between business, family, and faith for high-achieving men

📘 Get Mark’s Free Book:
https://escapethecagenow.com/subscribe/

🎧 Prefer audio-only?
https://lioncounselingpodcast.transistor.fm

📚 Books & Resources:
https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

📞 Book a Clarity Call:
https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

💬 Comment below:
Which season of your life shaped you the most—your upbringing, your career, or becoming a father?

About the Lion Counseling Podcast
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps high-achieving men break destructive patterns, build emotional strength, and become the men God created them to be. Hosted by EMDR therapist Mark Odland and counselor Zack Carter, this show blends psychology, faith, and real-world experience to help men lead with clarity, discipline, and purpose.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.

🎙️ Episode 67 – Why Your Sex Life Feels Stuck (And How to Fix It Without Trying Harder)

If your sex life feels stuck, it’s probably not because there’s no attraction—it’s because something is getting in the way.

In this episode, Mark Odland and Zack Carter break down one of the most misunderstood dynamics in marriage—through both psychological insight and a biblical framework for love, trust, and leadership as a husband.

Using a powerful framework called the “Gas vs. Brake” model, they explain why many men feel rejected—even when they’re trying their hardest—and what actually creates desire, connection, and intimacy in a healthy, God-designed marriage.

This is a direct, honest, and deeply practical conversation for high-achieving Christian men who want to lead well in their marriage—not just perform better.

🔥 In this episode, you’ll learn:

✅ Why low sex drive is often not the real issue
✅ The “Gas vs. Brake” model (and why most men focus on the wrong thing)
✅ The 3 hidden factors that shut down intimacy:
✅ Trust
✅ Emotional connection
✅ “Chore play” (mental load & stress)
✅ How biblical leadership and sacrificial love impact attraction
✅ How small daily behaviors quietly destroy connection and desire
✅ Why trying harder can actually backfire and increase rejection
✅ The difference between fixing problems vs. building connection
✅ A simple conversation you can have with your wife that can change everything
✅ How to play the long game in marriage and rebuild desire the right way

📘 Get Mark’s Free Book:
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/subscribe/

👉 Books & Resources: https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

📚 Work With Mark or Zack / Learn More:
👉 Book a Clarity Call: https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’

About the Lion Counseling Podcast:
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps high-achieving Christian men break free from anxiety, burnout, anger, and destructive patterns so they can lead with strength, clarity, and purpose.
Hosted by licensed therapist Mark Odland and counselor Zack Carter, this show blends psychology, faith, and practical tools to help men heal deeply and live intentionally.

New episodes drop every Tuesday.

🎙️ Episode 55 – Dan Severn Would Fight Royce Gracie Again at 67… On the White House UFC Card?

In this episode of the Lion Counseling Podcast, Mark Odland sits down with UFC Hall of Famer Dan “The Beast” Severn, one of the original pioneers of mixed martial arts.

During the conversation, Mark asks Dan a wild hypothetical question:

If the White House UFC card this summer needed a fight… would he come out of retirement to face Royce Gracie again?

Dan’s answer?

“Without hesitation.”

With the recently announced White House UFC event coinciding with the 250th anniversary of the United States, fans have been debating the lineup—especially after noticing the absence of major stars like Jon Jones and Conor McGregor.

That raises an interesting question:

What if two of the original pioneers of the UFC stepped back into the arena?

A Dan Severn vs Royce Gracie rematch would revive one of the most iconic rivalries from the earliest days of the sport.

But this episode goes far deeper than fight talk.

Mark and Dan explore the psychology of competition, the mindset required to become a champion, and how a man balances intense ambition with family, leadership, and legacy.

What you’ll learn in this episode

• The mental warfare behind early UFC competition
• How growing up on a farm built Dan Severn’s legendary work ethic
• The psychological edge that separates elite competitors from everyone else
• How Dan balanced life as “The Beast” in the cage and a father at home
• Why modern men struggle with motivation and responsibility
• The surprising mindset behind Dan’s longevity and discipline at 67 years old

This conversation is about more than fighting.

It’s about identity, masculinity, responsibility, and what it means to become the man you were created to be.

📘 Get Mark’s free book:
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📚 Books + Merch:
https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

📞 Book a free consult:
https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’

💬 Comment below:
Would you watch Dan Severn vs Royce Gracie II on the White House UFC card?

About the Lion Counseling Podcast

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men break free, heal deep, and become the lions God created them to be.

Hosted by Mark Odland, licensed marriage and family therapist and certified EMDR therapist, the show explores psychology, masculinity, trauma healing, faith, leadership, and purpose for high-achieving men.

New episodes drop every week.

🎙️ Episode 54: Don’t Let Your Life Become a Bad Country Song | How Strong Fathers Aim Too Low

Some of the most disciplined, high-performing men I work with are winning in business… but quietly wondering if they’re losing at home.

In this episode, I unpack a humorous but revealing set of lyrics from country artist Walker Hayes — and what they expose about the modern bar for fatherhood.

“Just trying to keep my daughters off the pole and my sons out of jail…” Is avoiding catastrophe really the definition of success? Or are we aiming far too low? This episode is for the father who knows he’s a good man — but refuses to settle for mediocrity in his home.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

✅ Why defensive parenting creates distance instead of strength
✅ The hidden trap successful men fall into at home
✅ The paradox of protection vs. intentional leadership
✅ Why “I love you” and “I’m proud of you” are not optional
✅ How small daily shifts prevent future disaster
✅ A 3-step action plan you can implement tonight

📘 Get Mark’s Free Book

Download your free copy here:
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/subscribe/

📚 Mark’s Books

Explore books & resources:
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

📞 Ready for a Clarity Call?

If you want to parent strategically instead of defensively, book here:
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

💬 Comment Below:

What’s one thing your dad said — or didn’t say — that shaped you?
And what will you choose to say differently?

Click here to view the episode transcript.’

About the Lion Counseling Podcast

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps high-achieving Christian men break free from anxiety, resentment, burnout, addiction, and unresolved trauma — so they can heal deeply, lead strongly, and build families that last.

New episodes drop every Tuesday.

Break free.
Heal deep.
Become the lion God created you to be.

🎙️ Episode 53: She Says You’re Emotionally Abusive… But Are You?

More and more men are walking into counseling asking the same question:
“What if I’m the problem?”
Their wife or girlfriend says they’re narcissistic.
Emotionally abusive.
Controlling.
And because they’re conscientious, self-reflective men… they start to believe it.

But what if the truth is more complicated?

In this episode, Mark and Zack break down what emotional abuse actually is — and how to tell the difference between:
• Normal conflict
• Mutual dysfunction
• And real patterns of power, fear, and control

This is not about blaming women. It’s about clarity.

In this episode, you’ll learn:
✅ The 5 clinical markers of emotional abuse
✅ The difference between normal conflict and abusive patterns
✅ What “power and control” actually means in a relationship
✅ How gaslighting and identity erosion show up
✅ How trauma can fuel abusive dynamics (in either direction)
✅ What to do if you recognize these patterns in yourself or your spouse

📘 Get Mark’s Free Book
Download your free copy here:
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/subscribe/

📚 Mark’s Books
Explore books & resources:
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

📞 Ready for a Clarity Call?
If you need objective clarity about what’s happening in your relationship, apply here:
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

💬 Comment Below:
Have you ever quietly wondered if you were the villain in your own relationship?
What helped you gain clarity?

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’

New episodes drop every Tuesday.
Break free.
Heal deep.
Become the lion God created you to be.

🎙️ Episode 52 – Story, Symbol, and Meaning: Another Legacy Highlight with Jonathan Pageau

In this second Lion Legacy Highlight with Orthodox icon carver and symbolic thinker Jonathan Pageau, we dive even deeper into the intersection of faith, art, EMDR therapy, and how storytelling reveals hidden meaning in our lives.

Jonathan reflects on the cultural moment we're in—where meaning is collapsing for many, and how recovering symbolic thinking may be the key to healing our fractured world.

🔍 We explore:

• Why modern culture feels fragmented, anxious, and void of meaning
• The collapse of religious authority and narrative coherence
• How symbolism isn’t abstraction—it’s structure for the soul
• Why humans are wired for meaning, not just information
• The surprising overlap between trauma therapy and symbolic thinking

If you've ever felt disconnected from the deeper meaning of your life—or if you're looking for a way to integrate faith, art, healing, and masculine identity—this short-form conversation is rich with insight.

👇 COMMENT BELOW:
What’s a story or symbol that shaped how you see the world?

—

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Click here to watch a video of this episode.’

🦁 About the Lion Counseling Podcast
The Lion Counseling Podcast exists to help high-achieving Christian men overcome trauma, anxiety, and burnout through faith-integrated therapy and coaching. New episodes every Tuesday.

🎙️ Episode 51 – Stop Being the Emotional Punching Bag | Boundaries Aren’t Punishment

What if the most loving thing you could do in your marriage… is stop tolerating disrespect?

In this episode, Mark and Zack tackle a pattern we see constantly in our counseling offices: good men who love their wives, own their mistakes, work hard for their families—and still feel like the emotional punching bag years later.

Criticism doesn’t expire.
Disrespect becomes normal.
And eventually the question surfaces:

“If I want to stay… what am I supposed to do?”

This episode is not about blame.
It’s not about dominance.
It’s not about threatening divorce.

It’s about boundaries—and why they aren’t punishment.

If you’ve ever been told you’re “toxic,” “unsafe,” or “a narcissist” for simply wanting respect, this conversation will help you think clearly, respond wisely, and lead with strength without becoming cold or controlling.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

✅ Why many good men feel like the emotional punching bag in their relationships
✅ How cultural messaging has confused strength with toxicity
✅ The difference between manipulation and a healthy boundary
✅ What you are (and are NOT) responsible for in marriage
✅ How to communicate boundaries without attacking or diagnosing your spouse
✅ Why boundaries often make things worse before they get better
✅ A simple script you can begin using immediately

🎁 Get Mark’s Free Book
Start your deeper healing journey here:
https://escapethecagenow.com/subscribe/

📚 Mark’s Books

https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

📞 Ready to work with our team?

Book a free consultation call:
https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’

💬 Comment Below:

Have you ever tried to set a boundary and been accused of being selfish or unloving?
What happened?

About the Lion Counseling Podcast

The Lion Counseling Podcast exists to help high-achieving men break free from anxiety, anger, burnout, trauma, and relational confusion—so they can heal deeply, lead strongly, and build a legacy that lasts.

We blend EMDR therapy, CBT psychology, marriage research, and Christian faith to give men practical tools—not vague inspiration.

New episodes drop every Tuesday.

Subscribe if you’re ready to stop surviving and start leading.

🎙️ Episode 50 – The Inner Critic Behind High Achievement—and Why Success Can Feel Lonely | A Lion Legacy Conversation with Matt Anderson

What if your drive to succeed isn’t actually about winning—but about belonging?

In this powerful Lion Legacy Conversation, Mark Odland sits down with strategist, coach, and author Matt Andersonto explore the hidden emotional cost of high achievement. Together, they unpack how work ethic, discipline, and success—while valuable—can quietly become substitutes for connection, love, and acceptance.

At the center of the conversation is a haunting moment from Matt’s past, when a mentor listened to his long list of accomplishments and simply replied: “That sounds lonely.” That single sentence cracked something open—and set Matt on a different path.

This episode is for men who carry responsibility well, perform under pressure, and still feel an ache they can’t quite name.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why many high-achieving men are driven by an unrelenting inner critic
• The difference between an “achievement story” and a real life story
• How comparison and performance can quietly lead to isolation
• Why acceptance doesn’t kill ambition—but actually purifies it
• How healing happens in relationship, not in isolation
• What it means to stop competing and start contributing

This conversation is thoughtful, honest, and deeply human—an invitation to rethink strength, success, and what it really means to leave a legacy.

Matthew M. Anderson is the author of Being Super Human (2025) and Running Mate (2013). He is a Black Belt in Karate, an ordained pastor, and an international speaker and leadership coach who has spent over two decades developing leaders in the non-profit, government, and public sectors. The founder of The Kindness Initiative and Surprise Church Bismarck, Matt has coached hundreds of leaders and spoken to thousands around the world out of his passion to help individuals and teams live up to their immense potential. Matt lives in Bismarck with his wife Lacee and their three kids. 

Matt Anderson’s Contact Information:
Website: matthewmanderson.com
Book: https://www.amazon.com/Being-Super-Human-Critic-Heroic-ebook/dp/B0FSYBGP64
Ted Talk: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/#inbox/FMfcgzQfBZdVqClfZkCrXmplcJllcxvV?projector=1

📘 Free e-Book and Weekly Tools for Men
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/subscribe/

📚 Books by Mark Odland
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

📞 Book a Free Consult with Lion Counseling
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’

About the Lion Counseling Podcast
The Lion Counseling Podcast is for men who want to break free from anxiety, burnout, anger, and the quiet weight of unmet expectations. Hosted by Mark Odland—licensed marriage and family therapist and EMDR-certified clinician—the show integrates psychology, masculinity, and Christian faith to help men heal deeply, lead courageously, and build lives of meaning and legacy.

New episodes drop every Tuesday.