Listen with Love

Following their preceding discussion on suspicions and distinctives, Suhail and Mary turn their attention to defining what spiritual direction actually is. They reference several classic and influential definitions from Margaret Guenther, Thomas Merton, William A. Barry, William J. Connolly, Francis Kelly Nemeck and Marie Theresa Coombs. They also share their own definitions, explore a Jesuit-inspired framework for what happens in spiritual direction, and conclude with the idea that everyone has a God-given spiritual direction.

SHOW NOTES

Books

* Holy Listening: The Art of Spiritual Direction — Margaret Guenther (1992)

* The Seven Storey Mountain — Thomas Merton (1948)

* Spiritual Direction and Meditation — Thomas Merton (1957)

* The Practice of Spiritual Direction — William A. Barry, SJ and William J. Connolly, SJ (1982)

* The Discernment of Spirits: An Ignatian Guide for Everyday Living — Timothy M. Gallagher (2005)

* The Way of Spiritual Direction — Francis Kelly Nemeck and Marie Theresa Coombs (1985)

References

* Moses and the Burning Bush — Exodus 3

* The Transfiguration — Mark 9:2–13

* “Being filled with the fullness of God” — Ephesians 3:19; describes the journey and goal of union, theosis, divinization, etc., in the Christian tradition

* Awareness, Understanding, Response — a framework for the discernment of spirits featured in Gallagher’s The Discernment of Spirits

* Everyone was shining — This moment is narrated in Merton’s Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander (1965)

Quotes

* “Spiritual direction is not problem-solving, nor is it therapy; its intention is not to cure but to accompany.” — Margaret Guenther, Holy Listening (1992)

* “And then everything inside me began to sing […]” — Thomas Merton, The Seven Storey Mountain (1948)

* “The whole purpose of spiritual direction is to penetrate beneath the surface of a man’s life and to bring out his inmost truth, which is what we call the likeness of Christ in his soul.” — Thomas Merton, Spiritual Direction and Meditation (1960)

* “Spiritual direction is help given by one Christian to another which enables the person to pay attention to God’s personal communication to him or her, to respond to this personally communicating God, to grow in intimacy with this God, and to live out the consequences of that relationship.” — William A. Barry, SJ and William J. Connolly, SJ, The Practice of Spiritual Direction (1982)

* “It strikes me that it is not wise to treat lightly what most generations of Christians have agreed is essential.” — Eugene H. Peterson, “On Finding a Spiritual Director” (article, first published 1983)

* “The world is charged with the grandeur of God.” — Gerard Manley Hopkins, “God’s Grandeur” (poem, first published 1877)

* “Spiritual direction is the gift, the charism, the ministry of guiding a person in and through his/her [spiritual direction] in the Lord. [It is] A unique participation in another’s spiritual regeneration, deification, transformation. Spiritual direction is a God-willed contribution of one person to another’s process of spiritualization […], sanctification […]. Spiritual direction deals with the interior life of directees: their life in God, and in him their life with all creation. Direction [seeks] to awaken directees to a consciousness of the path along which God is leading them [so that] they can in turn more voluntarily cooperate with God as he draws them through the passages of life.” — Francis Kelly Nemeck and Marie Theresa Coombs, The Way of Spiritual Direction (1985)

Programs

* Apprenticeship in Spiritual Direction — A spiritual direction formation program from the Order of the Common Life featuring spiritual theology, praxis, mentorship, and intended for the local church.

Recorded on the feast day of St. Thérèse of Lisieux (October 1), Suhail and Mary begin by reflecting on their experience of the podcast so far and on “the Little Flower,” especially her autobiography, Story of a Soul.

In anticipation of clarifying terms, they then explore common suspicions people may have about spiritual direction: questions about power dynamics, concerns about trendiness, what “spiritual” really means, and whether human intermediaries are necessary. They also consider what distinguishes spiritual direction from other helping modalities such as coaching, counselling, and psychotherapy.

SHOW NOTES

Recording

* We use two Rode PodMics that go into an Apogee Duet connected to a MacBook Air and record the audio using Logic Pro. The audio is then edited with Auphonic, reimported into Logic, and arranged with music. The intro and middle music are parts of the song “World Without End,” written by Suhail. The outro music is a free sample he found somewhere.

People

* St. Thérèse of Lisieux — also known as “the Little Flower,” was a French Carmelite nun whose spiritual teaching emphasizes the “little way”: a path of trust, humility, and love in ordinary life. She lived from 1873 to 1897.

Books

* Story of a Soul: The Autobiography of St. Thérèse of Lisieux — St. Thérèse of Lisieux (1898)

References

* The allusions to two scripture passages from the book of James on joy and confession are James 1:2-4 and James 5:16, respectively. Jesus, characterized as “Wonderful Counsellor,” is from Isaiah 9:6.

Traditions

* Carmelite — Refers to members of the Carmelite religious tradition, which emphasizes contemplative prayer, interior life, and attentiveness to God’s presence. Carmelite spirituality is shaped by figures such as St. Teresa of Ávila, St. John of the Cross, and St. Thérèse of Lisieux.

* “Confessor” — In Christianity, a confessor is a person (often a priest) who receives another’s disclosure of sins or struggles, offers prayer and counsel, and speaks words of forgiveness, healing, and reconciliation.

Suhail reflects on his first encounters with spiritual direction—how it seemed to “want” him, resonating deeply with who he was and awakening an unfamiliar joy and desire. Together, Suhail and Mary explore how spiritual direction showed up within their respective Protestant and Catholic upbringings, how they discerned their vocation as spiritual directors, and were invited into the work of training others in this ministry.

SHOW NOTES

Places

* North End — A historic and diverse Winnipeg neighbourhood marked by both economic inequality and deep community resilience, shaped by immigration, Indigenous presence, and strong networks of mutual care.

Traditions

* Jesuit — Refers to members and the spirituality of the Society of Jesus, a Catholic religious order founded in the 16th century by St. Ignatius of Loyola.

Formation

* Order of the Common Life — A modern, ecumenical religious order offering monastic formation, spiritual direction training, and church formation.

* Supervision / Supervisor — The reflective, regular practice of an experienced spiritual director (a “supervisor”) supporting another director in their ongoing formation and skill in offering spiritual direction.

* Suhail’s practice — Offering spiritual direction, spiritual direction training, etc.

Programs

* School of Mercy and Justice — A formation program (founded and directed by Suhail when he worked in the North End) that offers spiritual formation for those actively engaged in mercy and justice work.

* School of Spiritual Direction / Sustainable Faith — A two-year spiritual direction training offered through Sustainable Faith, which also offers various other trainings.

Books

* The Listener — Taylor Caldwell (1987)

People

* Sandra Stewart

* David Walsh

* Sister Maureen Conroy

Beginning with a land acknowledgement, Mary and Suhail introduce Listen with Love, recorded at St. Benedict’s Monastery in Winnipeg, MB, Canada. They reflect on how the monastery shaped their friendship and led to the creation of the podcast, including the origin of its name. Mary shares how spiritual direction found her and her journey into becoming a spiritual director, and how experiences of beauty and a formative dream she had at age fourteen led her to her vocation as a Benedictine nun.

SHOW NOTES

Places

* Land Acknowledgement — Winnipeg is on the traditional territories of the Anishinaabe, Cree, Oji-Cree, Dakota, and Dene peoples, and on the national homeland of the Red River Métis. Its water is sourced from Shoal Lake 40 First Nation.

* St. Benedict’s Monastery — A Benedictine community of prayer and hospitality in Winnipeg, where this podcast was recorded. Prior to moving to its current location in St. Boniface in 2023, the monastery housed a girls’ academy, retreat centre, retirement community, and spiritual direction training program.

Traditions

* Rule and Order of St. Benedict — The foundational guide of Benedictine monastic life, created by St. Benedict of Nursia in the 6th century. The Order of St. Benedict (O.S.B.) grew out of this tradition.

* 19th Annotation / Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius — A classic Christian prayer and discernment resource created by St. Ignatius of Loyola (the founder of the Jesuits) in the 16th century intended form “contemplatives in action.”

Formation

* Enneagram (Type Four) — A personality framework with nine different types and various movements within. Mary alludes to being a type “Four,” which, incidentally, Suhail is as well.

Quotes

* “Being heard is so close to being loved that for the average person they are almost indistinguishable.” — David W. Augsburger, Caring Enough to Hear and Be Heard (1982)

* “To ‘listen’ another’s soul into a condition of disclosure and discovery may be almost the greatest service that any human being ever performs for another.” — Douglas V. Steere, On Listening to Another (1955)

* “Hearing to speech” — Concept articulated by Nelle Morton in her essay “Beloved Image,” later included in The Journey Is Home (1985)

* In relation to the title of the podcast, Suhail talks about the centrality of love for the earliest Christians in allusion to To Love as God Loves: Conversations with the Early Church — Roberta C. Bondi (1987)

Recorded at St. Benedict’s Monastery in Winnipeg and hosted by good friends Suhail Stephen and Mary Coswin, OSB—both seasoned spiritual directors and teachers of spiritual direction—Listen with Love explores the ministry of spiritual direction within the Christian tradition.

With personal stories and meaningful (often humorous) dialogue, the podcast aims to deepen understanding about spiritual direction, encourage the vocation of spiritual directors, and reflect how spiritual direction feels — all with a view to seeing individuals, communities, and the Church flourish. Season One has 12 episodes, with each episode releasing every two weeks.

Reflections and conversations live on our Substack.