Listening to the Dead - Forensics uncovered

For twenty years, Tony Sales was Britain's biggest fraudster. From cloning credit cards and identities to emptying cash machines and being a confidence trickster, Tony knew how to make money.  In this first episode of the new series of Listening to the Dead, Lynda and Cass are joined by Tony and his colleague, former Head of the Fraud Squad Andy McDonald about fraud, to discuss fraud: how investigating it has evolved, the current threats, the impact on victims and the devastating iSpoof case of 2023. 

As a fraudster, Sales could make people believe whatever he wanted them to. As analogue crime turned digital, Sales adapted his skills and became a prolific online fraudster, quickly identifying and exploiting loopholes and weaknesses in the system. And so he continued until one day a mistake on a job in Sheffield saw him arrested. While serving time, Sales decided to turn his life around. As Frank Abagnale Jr. had done in the US, Sales went from poacher to game-keeper and set up We Fight Fraud, a company dedicated to helping governments and financial institutions to prevent fraud.

And it was well timed. Fraud has become bigger than ever in the UK. Scammers were responsible for nearly 1.4m cases of fraud in the UK during the first half of 2023.

Overall, criminals stole £580m in the first six months of the year, suggesting households are likely to have lost more than £1bn to fraudsters in the year.

How do we stop fraudsters? What investigative and forensic tools do the police have? Join Lynda and Cass as they explore the most prolific crime in the world.

Lynda La Plante's final Jane Tennison thriller Whole Life Sentence is available to pre-order now in all formats. To find out more about upcoming episodes of Listening to the Dead and Lynda's other books, visit www.lyndalaplante.com

Tony Sales’ memoir The Big Con is out now in audiobook. 

Credits:

This podcast was made by Bonnier Books UK

Hosts: Lynda La Plante, Cass Sutherland and Jon Watt

Director: Jon Watt

Producer: Laura Makela

Theme Music: Game Over by Magic in the Other 

The Listening to the Dead crew return to Crime Con in London for another live recording.

In this episode the team are joined by renowned forensic podiatrist Haydn Kelly to discuss his remarkable career and the first use of forensic gait analysis as expert evidence in criminal law at The Old Bailey in the trial of jewellery thief John Saunders.

From Shakespeare to the Usual Suspects, a person's gait is mentioned time and again. But how much can you really tell from a person's gait? More than you might think! 

In this final episode we’re discussing forensic searches: searches for bodies, searches for evidence, searches for criminals.

Lynda and Cass focus on the tragic case of April Jones, the 5-year-old who went missing in Wales in 2012. The police search was one of the largest ever mounted. It lasted six months, and though an arrest was made, of Mark Bridger, April’s body was never found. In this episode we reunite two forensic search experts who worked in different capacities on this harrowing and challenging case.

Julie Roberts is a hugely experienced forensic anthropologist and archaeologist with some 20 years of practitioner experience in the location, recovery and identification of human remains from scenes of crime, war zones and mass fatality incidents. She and her team examined bone fragments that were suspected to be April’s, recovered from Mark Bridger’s house. Julie is currently Scientific Advisor at Alecto Forensic Services: https://alectoforensics.com/  

Peter Faulding is a world-leading confined space rescue and forensic search specialist. Peter has worked on many high-profile missing person and ‘no body’ murder investigations including the serial killer Peter Tobin and the mysterious death of MI6 officer Gareth Williams. In 2012 he helped to coordinate the search of the woods around Mark Bridger’s house. https://www.specialistgroupinternational.com/

Lynda's new novel Vanished is out on March 31st 2022 in hardback, ebook and audiobook. 

Discover more at: www.lyndalaplante.com/listening-to-the-dead/

  This podcast was made by Bonnier Books UK

  Host & Director: Jon Watt

  Producer: Laura Makela

  Sound Engineer: Chris Attaway

  Theme music: Game Over by Magic in the Other

  End music: Sweeney by Mike Relm 

In 1996 the IRA were planning a major bombing campaign. Their targets were the electrical substations around Greater London. Had they been successful it would have crippled the electricity supply of south-east England. Fortunately, the police launched Operation Airlines, a covert investigation to foil the campaign and gather evidence to prosecute those planning it.  

Forensic fibres expert Dr Ann Priston joins Lynda and Cass to discuss her memories of analysing the evidence that linked the prime suspects to the bombs they had built. 

Dr Priston is currently working with the charity Inside Justice, investigating alleged miscarriages of justice. You can learn more about their work here:

https://www.insidejustice.co.uk 

Lynda's new novel Vanished is out on March 31st 2022 in hardback, ebook and audiobook. 

Discover more at: www.lyndalaplante.com/listening-to-the-dead/

 This podcast was made by Bonnier Books UK

 Host & Director: Jon Watt

 Producer: Laura Makela

 Sound Engineer: Chris Attaway

 Theme music: Game Over by Magic in the Other

 End music: Sweeney by Mike Relm 

The investigation into the murderer Colin Pitchfork is referenced in forensic courses around the world. Why? Because it was the first case where DNA screening was used. From the team responsible for this remarkable break-through, Lynda and Cass welcome Dr Tim Clayton. Tim discusses the cases of Colin Pitchfork, and later that of Colette Aram, and explains how they developed the DNA screening programme, its limitations and how it was refined into the crucial investigative tool it is today. 

Dr Timothy Clayton has close to 30 years of criminal casework experience in both the public sector, and after the closure of the FSS, in the private sector. He is an authority in the field of forensic biology and has an extensive research history as you’ll hear in this episode. In 2013, his work was recognized in the Queen’s New Year Honour’s List when he received an MBE for his contribution to forensic science and the administration of Criminal Justice. Tim is currently Senior Forensic Scientist at Eurofins Forensic Services, one of the largest private providers of forensic services in the UK: https://www.eurofins.co.uk/forensic-services/

Lynda's new novel Vanished is out on March 31st 2022 in hardback, ebook and audiobook. 

Discover more at: www.lyndalaplante.com/listening-to-the-dead/

 This podcast was made by Bonnier Books UK

 Host & Director: Jon Watt

 Producer: Laura Makela

 Sound Engineer: Chris Attaway

 Theme music: Game Over by Magic in the Other

 End music: Sweeney by Mike Relm 

Lynda and Cass are joined by Pippa Gregory – Behavioural Investigative Advisor – and one of only three criminal profilers working in the UK today. She discusses the infamous cases of Yvonne Killian and Rachel Nickell - two investigations where criminal profiling was testing and found wanting. The fallout from these two cases led to the practice of criminal profiling being questioned and mistrusted by the police and public for some years.

While Pippa Gregory was not directly involved in either case, the impact of them is still felt by Behavioural Investigative Advisors today. Pippa has been involved in supporting major crime investigations for over twenty-five years. In 1999, she was asked to take on the position of Principal Analyst for Surrey Police and in 2001 joined the Serious Crime Analysis Section (SCAS) as Principal Analyst. Pippa returned to a full-time BIA role in February 2009, providing specialist behavioural advice to major crime investigations and has supported over 300 major crime investigations in this capacity. She has been an NPCC Approved Behavioural Investigative Adviser since 1998.  She is also a visiting lecturer at a number of universities in the UK.

Lynda's new novel Vanished is out on March 31st 2022 in hardback, ebook and audiobook. 

The Real Cracker was an Oxford Films production. Sadly we can currently only find one episode on YouTube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=MybjI5KQbLs

Discover more at: www.lyndalaplante.com/listening-to-the-dead/

 This podcast was made by Bonnier Books UK

 Host & Director: Jon Watt

 Producer: Laura Makela

 Sound Engineer: Chris Attaway

 Theme music: Game Over by Magic in the Other

 End music: Sweeney by Mike Relm 

We start Season 3 with an absolute cracker as Lynda, Cass and Jon discuss the forensics behind the Great Train Robbery with some of those who were involved. In a world first, Listening to the Dead brings together the son of the robbery's mastermind, Bruce Reynolds, with a fingerprint expert who worked on the case back in 1963. Sit back and enjoy a lively discussion about planted evidence, bungling robbers, the swinging Sixties, betrayal, distrust and life on the run.

Jack Deans was just starting out in the Met Police's fingerprint department when the robbery happened and remembers manually searching the Met's paper database for the robbers' prints. He went on to have a 50 year career in fingerprinting.

Nick Reynolds was a toddler when the robbery was committed and his earliest memories are of being on the run with his father in Central America along with 'uncles' Ronnie and Buster. After his father's arrest Nick visited him in prison and was part of the team that brought Ronnie Biggs back to the UK in 2001. Today he is a successful musician and frequent contributor to documentaries on the robbery.

Chris Pickard worked with Ronnie Biggs on his renowned autobiography Odd Man Out (an updated edition is publishing this year) and is an authority on the Great Train Robbery.

 

Lynda's new novel Vanished is out on March 31st 2022 in hardback, ebook and audiobook. 

Discover more at: www.lyndalaplante.com/listening-to-the-dead/

 This podcast was made by Bonnier Books UK

 Host & Director: Jon Watt

 Producer: Laura Makela

 Sound Engineer: Chris Attaway

 Theme music: Game Over by Magic in the Other

 End music: Sweeney by Mike Relm 

In October 1975, Peter Sutcliffe committed his first murder. Over the next five years he went on to become one of the UK’s worst serial killers. One of the main reasons the police took so long to find him was because they were sent off in the wrong direction by a series of hoax letters and a tape purporting to be from the killer. 

Nicknamed Weirside Jack, the perpetrator was never identified at the time. It wasn’t until 25 years later that Chris Davies – a forensic document examiner – got his hands on the letters. Chris joins Lynda and Cass to discuss how Weirside Jack was finally brought to justice. 

Christopher Davies started work in the Metropolitan Police Forensic Science Laboratory in 1981 where he was trained in questioned document examination. He continued to work in London when the Metropolitan Police Laboratory became part of the Forensic Science Service in 1996. He became one of the senior document examiners responsible for dealing with serious crime, including counterterrorism, cases. In 2010 he left the London Laboratory when the Questioned Documents Section there was closed and continues to work as an independent consultant.

Lynda's new novel Vanished is out on March 31st 2022 in hardback, ebook and audiobook. 

Discover more at: www.lyndalaplante.com/listening-to-the-dead/

 This podcast was made by Bonnier Books UK

 Host & Director: Jon Watt

 Producer: Laura Makela

 Sound Engineer: Chris Attaway

 Theme music: Game Over by Magic in the Other

 End music: Sweeney by Mike Relm 

Here we go then - let's kick off Season 3 of Listening to the Dead as we once more peel back the curtain of crime and reveal the forensics that cracked some of Britain's most famous cases. From the Great Train Robbery to the Yorkshire Ripper, we speak to some of those involved and hear astonishing revelations about the crimes, investigations forensics and protagonists. 

Join Lynda and Cass and get closer to crime!

Subscribe now and don't miss the first episode on the Great Train Robbery out on 16th February 2022.

 CORRECTION! 2nd Dec 2021. Apologies listeners, we previously uploaded a part-edited version of this episode in error. This one is now the real deal. We hope you enjoy it. 

Bonus episode recorded live at CrimeCon 2021 in London. Lynda and Cass look back at two seasons of Listening to the Dead and share more stories about the forensic experts and cases that have fascinated us most.