My friends Liz Giles (from Yakima Washington, RM, BYU Grad) and Ryan Giles (from South Jordan Utah, RM, BYU Grad) join us to share their story. Liz and Ryan start with becoming friends at BYU, accidentally falling in love, and then* figuring out their sexualities. Ryan states, “You don’t fall in love with a girl unless you are wired for girls.”  Liz talks about her decision to serve a mission and coming to terms with her sexuality during that time.   Both Ryan and Liz served faithful and honorable missions.

After Liz returned from her mission, Ryan and Liz share how they navigated their close friendship while at BYU, decide to begin dating a year later, and get married in 2021. They talk about the options they explored as queer Latter-day Saints and the personal revelation they received to walk a fourth option—being in a same-sex marriage and continuing to participate in Church (as much as they are allowed to).

They talk about the love and support they are receiving from many church members. They also talk about their fears and what we can do as Latter-day Saints to lower their fears/anxiety so church attendance can continue and provide the hope/peace that worshiping Jesus brings.

They finish with talking about a new Instagram account they started called The Forth Option @the.fourth.option and the need to give grace/support for queer Latter-day Saints and former Latter-day Saints walking other roads.

Thank you, Liz and Ryan, for being on the podcast. You are a wonderful couple. I learned so much from you.  Glad more are hearing your story. 

Liz and Ryan’ Instagram Account:   @the.fourth.option 
 
Richard Ostler books/bio/etc.: www.papaostler.com

Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 726: Liz and Ryan Giles, Two Gay Women, Same-Sex Marriage,  Attending Church

Welcome to our podcast!   

My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren.  I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
I am the author of three books: 

“Listen Learn and Love:  Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/5248297.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) 

“Listen Learn and Love:  Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022.  The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations.  Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6003149.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)

“Listen Learn and Love:  Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023.  The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion.  Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6026921.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)

The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.  

Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016.   Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️

I am the author of two Ensign articles:

‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

 ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.   

This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.

Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

Thank you for joining us.   You can't donate to this podcast.  There are no sponsors.   But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.

With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤

Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
Facebook:  facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

Religion & Spirituality

Other

Spirituality

Christianity

Buddhism

Hinduism

Judaism

Islam

My friends Kate Kendrick (she/her) and her non-binary child Morgan (they/them) join us to share their story.  Kate, who is no longer active LDS, joins us to talk about her journey to become an LGBTQ ally and then fully love and accept her sixteen-year-old non-binary/pansexual child who goes by the pseudonym "Morgan." (who is age 16). It is a beautiful family love story. Kate offers helpful principles and perspective for parents to love and support their queer children.
 
Kate also talks about her decision to no longer participate in the Church and what we can do to build bridges of understanding between those in the Church and those who have left the Church.   Kate is not asking other people to leave the Church—rather, she is suggesting what we can do to bring both parties together as members of the same human family.   
 
Morgan, who is wise beyond their years, talks about what gives them hope and shares their advice to queer people who have less more. struggle with those who don't accept their sexuality/gender identity and/or are feeling suicidal.    
 
Thank you, Kate and Morgan, for being on the podcast. Your story helps us learn how to better support others.  
 
Links:  TikTok Page: @Midlife Exmo Momma -- Please note that, though Kate truly makes an effort to build bridges between members and former members of the Church, some content may not feel appropriate for those seeking to build their testimony of the Church. Please use discretion when watching her videos.

Episode 755: Kate Kendrick and her non-binary child Morgan

My good brother David (author of “Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question”) joins us to talk about his new book which gives readers a gospel-based framework and tools to navigate the increasingly polarized and contentious landscape of modern society.    
 
In the podcast, David talks about why he wrote the book, who is the audience, and how he hopes it helps us better come together as the same human family.  David talks in a practical way of the skills and approaches to eliminate contention and become peacemakers.   
 
If you are feeling tensions of conflict with family, friends, fellow church members—or want to better ministering tools to bring people together,  I invite you to read/share David’s book.  It is a serious book needed in a divisive time—packed with the latest information from the finest minds, research, and scriptural/church leader insights to help heal our divides.
 
Thank you, Dave, for all your great work in our community to bring us together.   
 
Links:
 
Dave’s book on Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/158958774X
 
Dave’s book on Amazon (Kindle):  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CZ4R7S2T
 
Dave’s book at Kofford Books:  https://gregkofford.com/products/healing-our-divides
 
Dave’s e-mail:  healingourdivides@gmail.com

Episode 754: David Ostler “Healing our Divides: Answering the Savior’s Call to be Peacemakers.”

My friend Arthur Wiseman (who returned from his successful mission in Gilbert Arizona in Dec of 2023, plans to become a therapist, and returned to live in Arizona) shares his mission experience.   Arthur (who knew he was gay since age 6 and planned to tell no one) shares what it was like starting his mission and feeling spiritual promptings (many times during his mission) to open up about being gay because of a desire to help others find hope and Christ in their lives.
 
Arthur talks about a variety of wonderful, spiritual, and sometimes painful experiences only possible because he was open.  Arthur talks about developing a strong relationship with Heavenly Father and making Christ the center of his life.  He talks about the personal revelation he is receiving.    Arthur also talks about how being vulnerable allowed him to be a safe place for his companions to open up about their lives—providing beautiful insights on how to better minister to each other.    Arthur talks about his supportive companions and what they proactively did to show their support.
 
This is a powerful podcast from a brave and faithful gay Latter-day Saint.   Arthur (and all those allies who support him) give me hope for the future as we work to build Zion.   Thank you for being on the podcast Authur.   Honored that more can hear your story.   You are a good man.
 
Links:
 
Facebook:  www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61555422532064
 
Instagram:  @arthur.w.wiseman
 
Facebook Group mentioned in the podcast:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/706348281603277

Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 753: Arthur Wiseman, Recently Returned Gay LDS Missionary

** This podcast mentions suicide.  If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988**

Guest host Tonya Miller interviews Kyle Jones, M.D., who talks about his most recent book, “When All Hope Seems Lost: A Gospel Perspective on Mental Illness in Youth,” which will be released later this month. Kyle is a Family Practice physician who works primarily with neurodivergent individuals and their families. He is active in the Church, and he and his wife are the parents of four children.
 
Kyle shares his story of first being diagnosed with mental illness as a student, with significant worsening during his medical residency. This is the topic of his first book: “Fallible: A Memoir of a Young Physician’s Struggle with Mental Illness.” He talks about noticing mood disorder symptoms when he was a teenager, but not realizing that he was dealing with mental illness at the time. The cumulative effects of the stress he experienced as a medical student and resident led him to eventually learn that he was living with anxiety and depression, for which he still takes medication and participates in therapy. Kyle describes ways that he started to share his story with other physicians and learned that he was not as alone as he feared. From there, he has continued to develop opportunities for providing outreach and education about mental illness, especially for members of the Church. He began to realize that there are not many resources about mental illness for youth in the Church, along with ongoing myths and stigma about the relation of mental illness to the gospel, which led him to write this book.
 
Kyle describes the complexities that youth in the Church face, and ways that specific gospel principles can help them heal, even when, in some cases, there is no “cure” for what they are dealing with. He shares stories of teens who have worked though challenges with mental illness that he interviewed for his book. He also interviewed mental health professionals who work with teens and talks about some of the insights they provide. Kyle refers to what he calls the “Broken Record” messages of the gospel that can bolster youth who fear they have done something “wrong” to “cause” their mental illness. They are: 1) Jesus loves you, no matter what, 2) Mental illness is not your fault, and 3) There are people here to help.
 
I am very grateful for Kyle’s willingness to share his story and perspectives around ways that principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ can ground and empower youth if they are experiencing mental illness while simultaneously navigating the complexities of life. 
 
As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care). 
 
Links for Kyle’s books and other resources are found below.
www.kylebradfordjones.com
Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram: @kbjones11   
Previous books: www.amazon.com/stores/Kyle-Bradford-Jones/author/B082WKSNYY?
When All Hope Seems Lost:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYCXFVB9

Episode 752: Kyle Jones, M.D., Author

My friend Jashon Ray Fabia (Age 33, single, LDS, RM, BYU-H grad in Psychology and Music, finishing Master's in Music Therapy) bravely shares his story as a queer Filipino Latter-day Saint (our first guest from the Philippines) and his new book (see show notes).
 
Jashon shares the shame he felt which continued until he came out to himself in his mid-20’s and others allowing Jashon to feel authentic and reduce/eliminate shame.   It is a brave story of working through suicidal ideation to find hope and peace.    Jashon talks about his focus on service to help other marginalized group, future projects and hopes for other queer Filipinos.
 
Jashon concludes with reconciliation with his parents including grace with family members along this journey.    Thank you, Jashon, for being on the podcast, writing your book, and sharing your story to give hope to others.   You are a good man doing much healing in our world.   Glad to have you on the podcast.
 
Links:
 
Jashon’s book:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218917
 
Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

Episode 726: Liz and Ryan Giles, Two Gay Women, Same-Sex Marriage, Attending Church

Download our free app to listen on your phone