Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

My friend Brenden Krogh (age 25, grew up in Grantsville/Mona Utah, Lives in St George, Active LDS, RM) joins us to share his story. Brenden talks about his journey to understand and accept being gay and the role of his Heavenly Parents and the Savior in this process—including personal revelation that he is created as intended and he should feel no shame for being gay. Brenden talks about his supportive family (so many powerful examples), church leaders/members, and friends to love, accept, and support him. Brenden talks about how their love and support helped him to do the same.

Brenden talks about personal revelation through music, church talks, and scriptures to hear God’s love/voice in his life. He talks about a YSA Ward that made the focus not to get married—but to help everyone come unto Christ. Brenden talks about the helpful things people do/say when he opens up about the complexity of his situation.

If you are a queer Latter-day Saint wondering how our Heavenly Parents feel about you and the ability of the Savior to walk with you, please listen to this podcast. It will help you better love/accept yourself and find hope in your future. And if you are a parent, friend, or ally—this podcast will give you more tools to support queer Latter-day Saints.

Thank you, Brenden, for being how you are and for your courage to share your story. You are brave. You are a good man, and we are so fortunate to have your insights to help us all better come unto Christ. Your story will help so many. You have a great life ahead of you!

Links:

Brenden’s Facebook: www.facebook.com/brenden.krogh

Brenden’s Instagram: @brenden_krogh24601

Charlie Bird’s “Without the Mask” book: www.amazon.com/dp/1629727849

Charlie Bird’s “Expanding the Boarders of Zion” book: www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSMNB3G7

Brenden’s coming out post on Facebook: www.facebook.com/brenden.krogh/posts/pfbid02qZhfHE1NhQZAaiQ6Wo3dcbyydwBkLv1RjYb33nB7xcrVAkWqUhMFWief3XcvJdMPl

Gather Conference (Sept 2024) Registration: gatherconference.regfox.com/2024-gather-conference

This episode is guest-hosted by Tonya Miller. Tonya interviews Sarah and Josh Sabey, who run For Little Saints (@forlittlesaints). Sarah and Josh share the experiences they've had in creating their newest publication, "The Book of Mormon Storybook." Sarah and Josh talk about wishing that they had a way to share the scriptures with their children that would help them connect more deeply. They recognized that the more traditional way of storytelling from the scriptures, which has often been based on teaching sequences of events or memorizing names and places, can omit some of the more relatable, human, elements of the stories.

Sarah and Josh highlight some specific examples from the Book of Mormon that follow character arcs. This way of looking at people, or Peoples, in the Book of Mormon ensures that we do not define them by one story, or one single moment in their history. Taking the long view, or being able to zoom in and then zoom out, can provide perspectives about spiritual growth, and emphasize real ways that people can change. They discuss the importance of moving away from polarization, towards peace.

I am grateful for Sarah and Josh, and the inspired work they are doing to help all of us connect more deeply through thoughtful storytelling. Stories connect us. Christ taught with stories during His earthly ministry, and those stories can still connect us to Him. Stories can instruct and heal us. In fact, "Listen, Learn and Love" was founded on the principle that all stories can serve as important connecting points. They can bridge gaps of understanding and provide pathways to love and peace.

Sarah and Josh are also filmmakers and have published earlier books. The link for their Instagram is found below. As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at [email protected]).

Links:

@forlittlesaints

My friend Lilly MacKenzie (3rd year BYU student) joins us to share her story. Lilly talks about her journey (starting in her early years) realizing she was different and gradually developing the vocabulary, understanding, and person insights to realize she is transgender. Lilly talks about how she feels so much better being her authentic self. Lilly talks about all that BYU is doing to support transgender students (she is having a good experience) and all her ward/church leaders are doing to support her (also a good experience). Lilly talks about her love of and belief in the temple—even though she currently can’t attend.

I was so impressed listening to and learning from Lilly—and better realize the importance of hearing multiple stories from our transgender friends. They are Israel, need to be gathered with our kind comments, and help us create Zion.

Thank you, Lilly, for being on the podcast. You are very brave. You help others walking this road and the rest of us wanting to do better. You have a great life ahead of you!

Links:

Church’s transgender web site: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender

Richard Ostler’s transgender/non-binary podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/transgender-and-more-podcasts

My friend Austin Peterson (Ghana RM, BYU Grad, FSY Leader, Gather Event Coordinator) joins us to share his story. Austin starts with his journey to accept being gay and gradually coming out (including as a Bishopric member during his testimony). Austin talks about the good experiences and the painful experiences being open in his Latter-day Saint community.

Austin talks his work as an FSY Leader and the principles to help Latter-day Saint youth feel needed and belonging. Austin talks about his decision to step away from the Church—following his experiences over several years of being hurt, being on the edge of the next hurt, drain of minority stress, wondering who in the congregation has said hurtful things, and finding Sunday as being his most draining day. I realize some of our best members step away and honor their decision with love and support.

Austin—full of desire to help queer youth—talks about the upcoming Gather conference (Sept 2024) and the new Youth Track (Gather for Youth) and what the team hope to accomplish. Austin—who understands this group well—is doing much good to give this group more hope.

Austin is one of the finest guests we’ve had on the podcast. I’m grateful for his years of service in the Church and his continue service to bless others. I’m honored to have Austin on the podcast and so grateful for his needed work in our community. You are a good man, Austin. You have a great life ahead of you!

Links:

Austin’s Lift and Love Story: https://www.facebook.com/story.php/?story_fbid=833564522137674&id=100064524019287

Austin’s 2023 Gather Presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI2nIrvKduA&t=255s&pp=ygUhZ2F0aGVyIGNvbmZlcmVuY2UgYXVzdGluIHBldGVyc29u

Gather 2024 Registration: https://gatherconference.regfox.com/2024-gather-conference

Gatherings Information: https://www.liftandlove.org/gatherings

E-mail contact: [email protected]

My friend Spencer Smith (age 31, ER attending pharmacist, BYU grad, active LDS) join us to share his story. Spencer (oldest of five; grew up in Sacramento) talks his journey to accept his sexual orientation and coming out to others. Spencer talks about not being able to make dating work with women and managing the sometimes painful cultural expectations to date and marry. Spencer talks about deciding that is not going to work for him (or her) and gradually coming out to others (including a very good experience with his brother and then later with his family).

Spencer talks about his decision to attend Gather in 2023 (felt a lot of anxiety beforehand) and how that transforming experience helped him understand that he can be both gay and a Latter-day Saint. Spencer ended up volunteering at Gather and talks about the importance of support and community. Spencer talks about the joy of having his mother attend with him and all the conversations that shared experience created.

Spencer talks about feeling impressed to start a “Gatherings” in his area and how this helps create support for LGBTQ members/allies in local areas—scalable to help so many.

I am so impressed with Spencer who is in such a good spot (his best self) to make the rest of his life possible—in a thoughtful and intentional way. I was also impressed with Spencer’s family and their love and support on his journey.

If you are a queer Latter-day Saint, ally, parent, or local leader—I encourage you to listen to Spencer story. You are a good man, Spencer. Honored to have you on the podcast.

Links:

Spencer’s Lift and Love story: liftandlove.org/stories/spencer-smith

Gather 2024 Registration: gatherconference.regfox.com/2024-gather-conference

Spencer’s Instagram: @spencerdavidsmith

Gatherings Directory: liftandlove.org/groups

My friends Todd and Tanya Hughes (live in Ventura County CA, married for 29 years, recently divorced, still best friends) join us to share their story. Todd (who recently turned 50) shares his background growing up gay in the church, and all the shame and self-hate that came with that. Todd and Tanya met on their missions and ended up getting married, after Todd told her he was gay during their courtship.

Todd talks about how church teachings have evolved and how raising a queer and transgender son helped Todd learn that he is an intentionally created gay Son of God, and that God loves all of him. Over the past few years, that has led Todd and Tanya to a decision to end their marriage—but remain friends (including still sitting on the same church pew together). Tanya and Todd talk about their beautiful marriage, parenting a transgender son, and how they continue to help/support each other.

Both Tanya and Todd have insights to support spouses of mixed-orientation marriages and better support/love/understand those whose marriages end. Tanya talks about how she still has hope for her “eternal family” and how it just has been reconfigured.

Todd (who still actively serves in the church) talks about his intentions to date and then marry a man and participate as much as possible in the Church. Neither Todd nor Tanya are inviting others to a similar path—just bravely sharing their story in hopes to help others walking a similar road and to help all of us better love our fellow Latter-day Saints.

Thank you, Todd and Tanya, for being on the podcast. You are two remarkable, courageous, and faithful Latter-day Saints. Your courage to share your story helps so many.

Todd’s e-mail: [email protected]

Social media:

IG (Todd): @todd.hughes.in.ca

IG (Tanya): @tanyainsocal

Latest Church Teachings: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/same-sex-attraction

Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

**This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988**

My friend Jeremy Kerrigan (LDS convert, married father of 5, Arizona native, Chiropractor, photographer) joins us to share his story. Jeremy talks about being aware of this same-sex attraction most of his life but not fully addressing it until he came out to his wife in late 2023 (good experience). Once that box was open, Jeremy talks about his journey of deconstructing and then reconstructing his life going forward. Much of that included dark days of depression, anxiety and considering suicide. Jeremy also shares all his efforts (and other good people in his life) to help him find hope again and to better understand who he was created to be.

Jeremy talks about getting in a healthier space with hope, peace, and also receiving powerful personal revelation that “God loves gay Jeremy.” Jeremy talks about fully accepting himself and how that takes away shame and allows him to be authentic. Jeremy talks about how we are all created in the “image of God.”

Jeremy talks about his future and how he is purposefully going slow and becoming his best self before making major decisions. Jeremy also talks about his podcast called “The Empowerful Health Podcast” (see show notes).

Thank you, Jeremy, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story. You give hope for others walking a similar road and those who are suicidal—and provides principals and perspectives to better love, see, and support each other. You are a good man. Honored to have you on the podcast.

Links:

Jeremy’s Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/empowerful-health/id1649852833

Jeremy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremykerriganaz/

Jeremy Kerrigan E-mail: [email protected]

Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

**This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988**

My friend Glen Bass (father of two, lives in Utah County, left church 2018, rebaptized 2024, divorced after 15 years of marriage) joins us to share his story. Glen talks about his early years figuring out he is not 100% heterosexual. Glen talks about his mission and being disfellowshipped for falling in love with his companion/physical relationship. Glen talks about navigating the pain/shame/humiliation of that experience and the positive people in his life that kept him going.

Glen talks about returning to full fellowship and finding his wife (including opening up about his SSA during their courtship). Glen talks about how that married ultimately ended (still on good terms) and how he is moving forward.

Glen talks about leaving shame, self-loathing and finding peace, joy and happiness in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and his decision to be rebaptized in March 2024. Glen also shares a powerful insight while suicidal on the impact of his possible suicide on his daughter—one of the most powerful segments of any podcast we’ve done.

Glen talks about how to forgive the Church/Church culture for painful experiences consistent with his desire to move forward in the Church. I was so moved by the maturity, courage, vulnerability, hope and perspective in Glen’s story. Honored to have him on the podcast. You are a good man my friend Glen!

My friend Dr. Kerry Spencer Pray (lives in Maryland, Associate Professor at Sevenson University, married to her wife Heather, mother of two, taught at BYU for 15 years, no longer practicing Mormon) joins us to share her story. Dr. Pray talks about her prior marriage to her former husband (they both are gay), why that marriage ended (they are on good terms), and how she found hope and happiness as she made her way forward. Dr. Pray talks about the importance of writing your own story outside of the expectations of others—and how each queer story is unique, needed, and valued.

Dr. Pray talks about when she came out there were almost no stories of gay Latter-day Saint women and the importance of stories which led to her most recent book call “The Book of Queer Mormon Joy” which contains about 30 queer stories—focusing on how these individuals are finding joy.

I’m grateful for Dr. Pray bravely sharing some of her story and also her work as editor of this new book—and all her work in our broad community to bring more understanding and support. Thank you Dr. Pray—so glad to have you on the podcast!

Links:

The Book of Queer Mormon Joy at Signature Books: www.signaturebooks.com/books/p/the-book-of-queer-mormon-joy

The Book of Queer Mormon Joy at Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1560854707

I Spoke To You in Silence at Amazon: hwww.amazon.com/dp/164769079X

Dr. Pray Twitter: @Swilua

Dr Pray on Instagram: @Swilua_

This episode is guest-hosted by Tonya Miller. Tonya interviews Jaci Wightman, who shares her compelling story of recovery from dependence on food, and on sugar in particular. Jaci describes the ways that she felt prepared and guided in her journey, which began with her learning that sugar addiction is very real. Jaci talks about being resistant to this idea for years before allowing herself to trust that the Lord was guiding her to the relief she so badly needed from her dependence. Jaci also provides insights into why her reliance on food developed, and how healing from her dependence has had nothing to do with dieting or attaining a certain body shape or size.

I am grateful for Jaci's courage and for the hopeful perspective she brings to this topic. Jaci discusses the societal trends and pressures that influence so many people negatively and shares ideas for approaching and dismantling the shame that often interferes with our ability to see ourselves as God does. Jaci talks about feeling called to teach others about sugar addiction and to support them in their own healing.

I feel very hopeful that this podcast will be a springboard that can help us examine our own attitudes, and associated behaviors, not only about food and body image, but also about other compulsions that we may turn to, instead of to the Savior, for help and comfort. I am glad there are people like Jaci, who not only have the experience, but also the expertise, to help all of us be more mindful and aware around this topic. Jaci's website and other social media links are shared below. Of note, Jaci was also interviewed in Episode 706 (link in show notes)

As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at [email protected]).

Links for Jaci's digital platform are below:

Jaci’s YouTube channel:

youtube.com/@jaciwightman?si=Haekg_Ziz0X_GDN_

Jaci’s website: jaciwightman.com/

Jaci’s earlier podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-706-jaci-wightman-new-book-ignited/id1347971725?i=1000631042858