Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

Our son Jake Ostler (Undergraduate Degree in Psychology, Master’s Degree in Social Work, Certificate in anti-human trafficking, LCSW, working with sexual violence survivors in over 10 different countries since 2016) joins us to talk about his new non-profit called International Protection Alliance (protectall.org/). Jacob also serves on the Board of the Utah Social Work Association. Jake, who is looking for donations and supporters for his new non-profit, talks about why he co-founded it, its mission (to stop online sexual exploitation and support survivors), and how you can help. Jake also talks about the myths and facts of sex trafficking and what parents can do to better help their kids to be safe.

While you can’t donate to our podcast, I am inviting you to listen to this podcast and consider donating to Jake’s non-profit International Protection Alliance. I deeply believe in the work Jake is doing and his skills (clinical, organizational, financial) to run an effective non-profit with a mission to combat online sexual exploitation and help survivors heal—something that is so needed in our world.

Thank you, Jake, for being on the podcast. Your parents deeply believe in you and the work you are doing. Honored that more can hear of your efforts.

Jake welcomes any ideas for how you'd like to support the mission. Please reach out if you have ideas or want to be updated as they continue working and growing

Links:

Jake’s e-mail: [email protected]

International Protection Alliance web stie: protectall.org

International Protection Alliance Instagram: @intl.protect.all

Facebook: www.facebook.com/ipa.protectall

Jake’s Utah Clinical Practice: healingandhopeutah.com

Jake’s LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-ostler-492716116

My friend Oliver Black (RM, UVU student, grew up in Utah County) joins us to share his story with gender dysphoria and how we can help trans/non-binary Latter-day Saints feel more welcome. Oliver delayed his transition so he could serve a mission (Montana—great experience—wanted to serve to help others), but has now been fully transitioned for over three years. He talks about the positive experiences in his mission and the role of spiritual promptings when coming out while in the field.

Oliver then talks about the love/support he's received from his parents and local wards—and the spiritual peace he feels. He also discusses the difficult road transgender Latter-day Saints walk and what we can do to better support them. In this regard, Oliver has written “7 Ways Local Church Leaders Can Make Church Safe for Transgender Members” (link in show notes). This labor of love suggests ways (given the new handbook changes in Aug 2024) to help transgender members feel more safe, accepted, loved, and needed.

He answers tender questions I felt impressed to ask him, giving answers that were deeply insightful and moving. Thank you, Oliver, for being on the podcast and helping us better understand that our Heavenly Parents' love all Their children. You are a good man with immense emotional/spiritual/intellectual maturity—gifts that you are using to help us create Zion and bless others. Honored to have you on the podcast.

Links:

Oliver’s “7 Ways Local Church Leaders Can Make Church Safe for Transgender Members” document: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/j2r794h1v7zoodghc9h8x/Supporting-Trans-Members-Oliver-Black-Nov-2024.pdf?rlkey=exlksuqeqbux4hxwk9xi1bgwx&dl=0

Oliver’s editing website/writing portfolio: https://oliveraeblack.wixsite.com/about

My friend and mentor Pastor Stan Mitchell (familiar with and friend to Latter-day Saints) joins us to share his story of his changed heart/perspective about LGBTQ people that occurred during his ministry at Grace Point Church in Nashville. Stan (who attended Latter-day Saint services as a youth causing him to reframe his view of Jesus from vengeful to loving) talks about teachings of Jesus to love/support/accept LGBTQ folks—accept/validate their pain—and be open to what we can do better to support these good folks.

Stan talks about his work with Christian parents who deeply love their queer kids, their Christian beliefs, and want what is best for their kids. He offers suggestions on how to navigate this road. Stan also talks directly to our queer friends to help them feel more love, acceptance, and hope for their future—and a plea for those considering suicide to stay.

Stan brings his strong theological insights, soft heart, and 1000’s of visits with people walking this road to help others. Thank you, Stan, for your work in many faith traditions to help us better love and support our queer friends. You work has helped me. Thank you for being on the podcast.

Links:

Stan Mitchell’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/stan.mitchell.58

My friend Ben Higinbotham (mid-30s, BYU grad, non-binary, gay, active LDS, RM, they/he/she) joins us to share their story of self-acceptance and personal growth. Ben talks about their lifelong journey on this road of being gay and not feeling like they fit as a girl—including personal revelation, coming out to others, their strong relationship with God and finding peace/hope in their life. Ben also talks about shame—and how rather than curing them of their queerness, God is curing them of their shame. They talk about using the new name of Ben—including the backstory of the importance of that name. Ben talks about how being gay and/or non-binary is not a sin—but transitioning (even social transitioning) removes some church privileges, which can be difficult. Ben talks about how they are navigating that road and still participating in the Church. Ben loves Jesus and is trying to be more like Him—they strongly believe that it is possible to be both queer and Christian. Ben shares their love and musical testimony of Jesus through their arrangement of the hymn Amazing Grace.

Thank you, Ben, for being on the podcast. I was so impressed with your spiritual maturity, deep acceptance, and love for all people. I loved hearing some of the personal revelation you are receiving included how much God loves all his children. Thank you for the courage to share your story and help us better create Zion. You are awesome and our church community is better with you part of it.

Links where people can find connection with LGBTQ+ people and allies:

https://www.liftandlove.org

https://www.liftandlove.org/gatherings

My friend Dr Tyler Johnson (former YSA Bishop, oncologist, clinical assistant professor at Stanford University) joins us to talk about his new book published by Deseret Book called “When Church is Hard”.

Tyler talks about how different testimony types (“I know”, “I believe”, “I hope”, etc) actually are a good thing—helps us extend the tent of Zion and bring more people to Christ. He also talks about how not every Latter-day Saint will have a “I know” testimony and how that person shouldn’t feel like a second-class citizen—but a valued/needed member of our community.

In the second part of the book, Tyler also talks about supporting those (and us) when God is silent.

In the third part of the book, Tyler shares better ministering skills to support those with church generated pain or the pain they see in others. He talks about what do we do (in ourselves and helping others) when our “hearts breaks at Church”. Tyler talks about specific examples and the importance of validating pain—and how pain is a good thing as it should create attention to a problem—which is exactly what our body is signaling with physical pain.

If you are looking for a book to help you (or better help others) navigating difficult church experiences, please read Tyler’s book. It is a book I wish I had read decades ago before becoming a parent or having church leadership callings. Thank you, Tyler, for your great work in our community. You are someone who I deeply admire and respect.

Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/product/6020541.html

Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1639931821

Episode 591: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-589-tyler-johnson-navigating-complicated-church-topics-extended-the-tent-of-zion

*Trigger warning: This episode mentions suicide. If you are experiencing suicidal thoughts and are in need of support, please reach out for help by calling 988. We care and we want you to be safe.*

My friend, Colette Dalton (she/her) is a queer licensed clinical social worker and certified sex therapist. Colette was my guest on an episode in 2021, so she catches us up on her journey in healing from trauma and living with depression and describes her more recent experiences with finding what she terms as "Queer Joy."

Colette also talks about her work with clients at Hearten House in downtown Salt Lake City; she specializes in experiential therapy, reuniting the mind and body, which is particularly important for many queer individuals with LDS backgrounds, due to high rates of internalized homophobia. Colette also meets with clients virtually throughout Utah, Arizona, and Idaho.

Colette teaches us about a fantastic, free, resource for queer individuals and allies that she has recently developed, called The Queer Joy Summit (Nov 17-19). The Queer Joy Summit brings together over 20 speakers over 3 days to talk about how they experience queer joy and how you can experience more queer joy in your life, as well. Details for how you can register for the summit are included below.

I am grateful to Colette for her courage, and for the important role that her experience and expertise bring to many who are in need of support and kindness at vulnerable times in their lives.

Links:

Queer Joy Summit: queerjoysummit.com

Hearten House: heartenhouse.com

Trevor Project and the study they did about queer kids not thinking they'll make it to 35: www.thetrevorproject.org/research-briefs/perceived-life-expectancy-and-life-purpose-in-lgbtq-young-people/

Dr. Brené Brown on Joy: It's Terrifying | SuperSoul Sunday | Oprah Winfrey Network: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKV0BWSPfOw

The power of vulnerability | Brené Brown | TED: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvmsMzlF7o

My friend Laurie Lee Hall (convert, former Director of LDS Temple Design and Construction, former Stake President, in her early 60s) joins us to share her story. Laurie Lee talks about her lifelong journey to manage her gender dysphoria and eventually “live as the woman I am”. Laurie Lee talks about the impossible choices she faced in this journey as a successful 20-year Church employee (the last part in the physical facilities department—one of her last projects being the expanded Provo MTC) and serving as a Stake President. That led to Laurie Lee’s Church employment ending and losing her Church membership. Laurie Lee talks about continuing (for a time) to participate in a new ward and being accepted in Relief Society—and the joy/belonging she felt.

She talks about “living as Laurie Lee and the peace it brings me”, the new August 2024 handbook changes restricting transgender members, concerns about a “surveillance culture”—all of which are covered (and more) in her new book. Laurie Lee also talks about two meetings she and I shared around 2016/17 when I was trying to become a better ally by listening to my LGBTQ friends.

Thank you, Laurie Lee, for being on the podcast, writing your book, bringing beauty to Latter-day Saint buildings/temples, choosing to stay alive, continuing to make the world a better place, and doing the best you can with impossible choices. This world is a better place because of Laurie Lee Hall.

If you are looking to better understand/support our transgender friends, please listen to this episode and read her book. Thank you, Laurie Lee, for being on the podcast. You are awesome!

Links:

Amazon (kindle and book): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DHY2YJ6C

Signature Books: https://www.signaturebooks.com/books/p/dictates-of-conscience

*** This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988 ***

My friend Hunter Howell (Bio Medical Science Major, New Mexico/Farmington RM, Suicide Survivor) joins us to share his story. Hunter talks about his pre-mission years navigating his same-sex attraction, completing a mission (including falling in love with a companion), and being a BYU-Idaho student. At BYU-Idaho, Hunter faced the most difficult chapter in his life recognizing he wasn’t going to be able to marry a woman—leading to a suicide attempt—which led to a therapist that gave tools for Hunter to find hope in his future.

Hunter talks about his deep relationship with his Heavenly Father and Savior and their love of/support for Hunter. Hunter gives honest advice to queer Latter-day Saints considering a mission and/or attending BYU-Idaho.

If you are looking for hope, please listen to Hunter story. Thank you, Hunter, for being on the podcast, for how you are, and for your ability to bless/help others. This world is a better place with you part of it.

Links:

Hunter’s e-mail: [email protected]

The Trevor Project: www.thetrevorproject.org

Facebook Group to Minister to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

My friend Heather Prinz (lives in Fayetteville Arkansas, Speech Pathologist, Sexual Assault Survivor: Dr. Broadbent OBGYN lawsuit) bravely joins us to share her story. Heather talks about her sexual assault under the guise of medical care, discovering she was one of hundreds of other victims, and her journey through trauma and healing.

Heather talks about how she felt at the time of the assault, her inability to accept what had happened, how the assault negatively impacted her life over the following 15 years, and her road (with the help of great therapy) to find healing.

Heather also talks about her decision to come out publicly after 2 years as an anonymous 'Jane Doe' in the ongoing civil lawsuit against Dr. Broadbent and the community of support this group of survivors developed throughout their attempts to prevent this from happening to others.

If you are a victim of sexual abuse or want better tools to help others, please listen to Heather’s podcast.

Thank you, Heather, for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story—which will help so many.

Links:

@thatsnothealthcare - survivors' advocacy Instagram

@heather.prinz - individual Instagram

My friend David Smurthwaite (married father of 4, gender expansive, active Latter-day Saints) joins us to share ideas on ministering to anyone struggling with the updated Church transgender policies. David starts with a brief recap of his own story (including talking to his Bishop at age 11 and opening up to his wife Marisa about 8 years ago).

David then talks about the new policies—and what we can do to bear, mourn, and comfort each other given these difficult circumstances. David then answers questions (Resources/support groups, Should I come out?, Honoring personal revelation, etc).

If you want to gain insight into someone (or yourself) experiencing a gender journey, please listen to David’s story and perspective. He offers powerful insights thanks to a deep understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and a long view of being on the road to discovering divine identity.

Thank you, David, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. Thank you for all your contributions to our community. You give me hope and better tools to understand, love and support my transgender/non-binary friends.

Links:

David’s e-mail: [email protected]

David’s Instagram: @davidsmurthwaite_writer

David’s Instagram post on handbook changes: www.instagram.com/p/C_R83ooxkNE/

Church’s Transgender Guiding Principles PDF: assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/1d/76/1d76991533df11efbaeeeeeeac1ed7e66fbf94a7/general_handbook_guiding_principles_for_local_leaders.pdf

Episode 254: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-254-david-smurthwaite-married-father-of-4-former-bishop-gender-dysphoria

Life and Love Support Groups: www.liftandlove.org/meeting

Monica Phillps on Facebook: www.facebook.com/monica.phillips.3597