This week, Tim and I are sharing a fascinating conversation with therapist and researcher Janeen Martin about the complex and deeply personal ways that religion and mental health intersect.

Janeen has spent years working with clients navigating the full spectrum of religious experience—some who find their faith to be a source of deep resilience and healing, and others for whom it has been a source of pain and struggle. That contrast led her to ask some big questions: What makes religion a protective factor for some and a source of distress for others? How do individual personality, family dynamics, and church culture shape the way we engage with faith? And most importantly, how can we cultivate a relationship with God and our faith that supports our mental and emotional well-being?

One of the most interesting ideas we explored was the concept of attachment styles—how the way we relate to God often mirrors the way we’ve experienced relationships with authority figures in our lives. Janeen also introduced us to three different religious orientations—extrinsic, intrinsic, and quest—and how our approach to faith can evolve over time. We talked about how religious communities can create spaces for both conviction and curiosity, how parents can help their kids develop a healthy and secure faith, and how we can each pay attention to the signs that our relationship with God is either building us up or weighing us down.

This conversation was rich with insight and practical tools for anyone wanting to engage with their faith in a way that is both deeply meaningful and emotionally healthy. We hope you find it as valuable as we did. And with that, we’ll jump right into our conversation with Janeen Martin.

This week, we are thrilled to welcome back Terryl Givens—one of our all-time favorite guests and collaborators and someone we always have a running list of topics for. This time, we’re finally diving deep into the topic of agency and free will: it’s something that has come up in many of our past conversations but never had its own dedicated discussion. 

Terryl’s new book, Agency, is part of the Maxwell Institute’s Doctrine & Covenants theological series, and it explores some of the most profound and challenging questions about what it truly means to have agency. For centuries, theologians and philosophers have debated whether free will truly exists or if what we call agency is merely an illusion— our choices predetermined by the unfolding of the universe, or so shaped by our biology and past that we don't have real choice. Terryl’s work in this book finds that Mormonism has some compelling and unique insights on that central question, and explores some others: what role does community and authority play in expanding—or limiting—our agency? And how do we navigate the tension between obedience and authentic personal choice?

In this conversation, we explore the dangers of turning scripture or prophets into idols, how our perception of God can sometimes become so skewed that it’s actually a “false God,” and why Terryl doesn’t believe that we’ll ever be judged based on our beliefs alone. We also get into some fascinating intersections between agency, neuropsychology, philosophy, and even Darwinian evolution.

This discussion left us with so much to think about, and we hope it does the same for you. So with that, let’s dive in!

This week, we’re thrilled to talk with Carl Youngblood— longtime technologist, software engineer, and president of the Mormon Transhumanist Association.

Artificial Intelligence is no longer a distant, futuristic idea—it’s already shaping the way we learn, work, and even practice our faith. And just this past week, AI made big headlines again in the tech world with the release of vastly improved models and increasing belief among technology leaders that artificial general intelligence (AGI) is just around the corner. Whether or not that's the case, the exponential progress of AI is undeniable, and it’s sparking some of the biggest questions of our time. If God can speak through the written word, could God speak through AI? How do we discern when it's a tool for growth versus a shortcut that stunts it? And if AI frees us from certain types of work, could it deepen our relationships and spirituality—or will it leave us searching for new sources of meaning? It’s worth noting that many of the people most deeply concerned about AI’s effects on humanity and society are those who were involved in creating it. 

In this episode, we’ll talk about some of those concerns, but we’ll mostly explore ways we can use it constructively. 

Carl brings a sharp and thought-provoking perspective to these questions. He challenges us to approach AI with both curiosity and caution—seeing how it can deepen connection or drive isolation, spark creativity or dull our own discernment. Rather than dismissing it as just a tool or blindly embracing it, Carl pushes us to wrestle with its real impact on our thinking, relationships, and spiritual growth.

This is a conversation full of nuance, curiosity, and a lot of open-ended questions, and we hope it sparks new reflections for you. We’ll have links in the show notes to tools we mention throughout the episode, so be sure to check those out. And with that, here’s our conversation with Carl Youngblood.

Chat GPT

Google NotebookLM

Readwise

Church Newsroom: Guiding Principles for Use of AI

Elder Bednar on AI

This week, Zach Davis is joined by New York Times columnist and author Ross Douthat to talk about his new book, Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious.

Ross has spent his career bridging worlds—explaining faith and conservatism to a largely secular audience while also translating secular ideas back to religious readers. In this conversation, he makes a compelling case for why belief isn’t just a leap into the unknown, but a rational and maybe even necessary response to the world as we actually experience it.

Zach and Ross also explore some of the major barriers that keep modern, intellectually serious people from embracing faith—things like the Copernican and Darwinian revolutions, which many see as having displaced humanity from the center of the universe. But Ross challenges these assumptions, showing how science, rather than disproving faith, could actually deepen the mystery of our existence in a way that makes belief more compelling than ever. And he points out something undeniable–– that even as religious affiliation in the West declines, people across all backgrounds continue to report profound, life-altering encounters with the divine. Ross suggests that these experiences, far from being irrational, may be one of the strongest indicators that something real is at work in the universe.

This conversation was a fascinating mix of theology, philosophy, and cultural analysis, and we think Ross offers an important and thought-provoking perspective—one that invites both skeptics and believers to take faith seriously.

And with that, let’s jump into our conversation with Ross Douthat.

This week, we’re joined by Shima Baradaran Baughman, a nationally renowned expert on criminal justice reform and a law professor at BYU. After years focusing on shaping public policy and reforming systems, Shima began to recognize that the deepest and most lasting change wasn’t coming from legislation alone, but from the quiet, compassionate efforts of faith communities and individuals who were directly transforming lives one by one.

In this conversation, Shima shares her astonishing life story—how her family fled Iran after her mother’s imprisonment for political activism, their conversion to Christianity after arriving in the United States, and how those experiences have fueled a passion for justice and mercy. 

Shima also shares insights from her current research, which examines the profound impact faith communities are having on those often forgotten by society. Whether it’s through prison ministries, sitting beside strangers during bail hearings to bear witness and offer solidarity, or ward families welcoming and supporting formerly incarcerated individuals, she highlights how these simple, Christlike acts of radical mercy are breaking down barriers, healing hearts, and bringing light to some of the darkest corners of our world.

Shima reminds us that living like Jesus will often take us to the margins—to uncomfortable, messy spaces where true transformation begins. And that it’s in those spaces where both hearts and lives can be changed, including our own.

This week, we’re so grateful to share a conversation with Justin Dyer, a professor of religion at BYU and a researcher who has spent years exploring the intersection of faith and mental health. Justin’s most recent work focuses on perfectionism, especially within the church. He recently edited a special issue of BYU Studies Quarterly dedicated entirely to this subject, and you can find a link to it in our show notes.

In this conversation, Justin shares some compelling research, including the striking finding that high levels of toxic perfectionism can triple the likelihood of leaving one’s religion. He offers some profound insights into why this is the case and he talks about gospel principles that could help us replace unhealthy perfectionistic beliefs.

One of Justin’s most powerful insights is that our perceptions become a physiological reality. Stress responses not only shape how we think but also affect our ability to connect with others and feel the Spirit. This underscores the vital importance of creating church communities that are unconditionally loving, judgment-free spaces where people feel truly accepted. Justin highlights the critical difference between guilt and shame: guilt can guide us toward growth and change, while shame erodes our sense of worth and connection to God.

Most importantly, Justin offers practical, hopeful steps for healing from perfectionism, embracing a view of self-worth firmly rooted in God’s infinite love. He also shares a vision for how we can help our wards to become a place of healing and welcoming where everyone can feel like they belong.

Justin’s thoughtful research is a gift for anyone navigating these challenges or striving to build stronger, healthier relationships in faith communities. We’re so excited to share this meaningful and hopeful conversation with you. And with that, let’s dive in with Justin Dyer.

Link to BYU Studies issue on perfectionism: https://byustudies.byu.edu/issue/63-4

This week, we’re joined by Jana Spangler for a powerful and practical conversation about emotions—especially the ones we’ll do just about anything to avoid feeling.

Jana explains that emotions aren’t our enemies; they’re signals—messages from deep within us, rooted in ancient systems designed to guide and protect us. While emotions can feel overwhelming or even painful, learning to pay attention to them—rather than suppress or ignore them—helps us understand what’s really going on and respond with greater clarity, wisdom, and connection.

She breaks down what emotions actually are, how they begin in our bodies, and why listening to them is key to living a healthier, more wholehearted life. Jana shares practical tools for processing even the most uncomfortable emotions and teaches us how to build emotional resilience by sitting with discomfort instead of running from it. This practice, she explains, not only strengthens our ability to face life’s challenges but also nourishes our relationships, our physical and mental well-being, and our communities, creating space for greater connection and healing.

This episode is full of tools to help you navigate the hardest days and we hope it inspires you like it did us. With that, here’s our conversation with Jana Spangler.

As we wrap up the year, we’ve got something a little different  in store for you today. We’ve invited Zach Davis, Bill Turnbull, and McKay Coppins on for a conversation about two Hollywood Films that are making waves. 

Zach is the executive director of Faith Matters, Bill is one of the founders, and you may remember Mckay from his previous episodes. He’s a New York Times bestselling author and staff writer at the Atlantic. 

They’re joining us today for a deep dive into two films-- Heretic, the dark thriller about two sister missionaries lured into a man’s home by his feigned interest in their faith and become trapped in his sinister and malevolent plot -- and Conclave, which takes us into the heart of the Vatican during the election of a new pope. It’s a gripping drama filled with politics, power, and ultimately, divine mystery.

Both films explore profound questions about belief, choice, and the human longing for transcendence. In an era often skeptical of organized religion, these movies take faith seriously and, in their own ways, seem to reaffirm the relevance—and beauty—of spiritual truth.

This was a rich and thought-provoking conversation, so whether you’ve seen these movies or not, the questions explored in this episode and the insights are going to spark deep, and valuable reflection.

With that, let’s jump into the discussion!

Today, as Christmas Eve settles around us, we invite you into a quiet meditation written by Tyler Johnson and published as the culmination of the advent series in the FM magazine, Wayfare, with music from the King's College Choir singing O Magnum Mysterium. 

This reflection draws us into the sacred reality of the Nativity—the laboring Mary, exhausted and tearful, the beauty born through pain. It reminds us that the Christ child did not come to erase suffering but to teach us how to live and love within it. 

So, in this moment of stillness before tomorrow’s joy, we invite you to pause, breathe, and reflect on this Christmas truth: love enters our world through labor and struggle, bringing with it a deeper peace and lasting meaning.

I also want to mention that you can go to the FM YouTube channel to see this meditation with beautiful nativity art by Brandon Gonzales

From all of us at Faith Matters and Wayfare Magazine, we wish you a peaceful Christmas Eve. 

In the spirit of this Christmas season, we’re so excited to share a beautiful reflection with you, written and read by Lori Forsyth, Managing Editor of the Faith Matters magazine, Wayfare. This piece is part of Wayfare’s Advent series. If you've missed any parts of this series, you can still find them at  wayfaremagazine.org. You can also subscribe to the digital or print versions of Wayfare for access to the incredible essays, interviews, poetry, art and more.

Advent is a time of reflection and anticipation, and Lori’s words offer a powerful reminder that joy isn’t about avoiding the hard things—it’s about embracing the light that shines through them.

We hope this brings you a moment of peace and stillness during this busy season, and we’d love to invite you back here on Christmas Eve for the culmination of the Advent series—a short and powerful meditation with music to close this sacred time.

And now, here’s Lori Forsyth reading Shining in Darkness.