Today we’re so happy to share a conversation with our friend Brian McLaren about his brand-new novel, The Last Voyage. The book is set in the future, as Earth nears collapse and a final crew is sent to Mars in a last-ditch effort to begin again.

It’s a compelling story on its own, but it also opens up space for deeper questions—about what happens when we try to leave everything behind, only to discover we’ve brought all our baggage with us. 

So in this conversation, we got to explore some of those ideas with Brian. We talked about conflict in close relationships, and what it looks like to stay connected even when worldviews differ in really important ways. He shared why curiosity can be such a powerful act of love in these situations especially when we’re tempted to protect ourselves through certainty.

We also talked about the dark night of the soul, and the way it can become a womb for something new—a space where real transformation begins, both personally and even within our faith communities.

Brian speaks candidly about the role of religion—not as a static institution, but as something alive, always holding the tension between honoring the past and nourishing our future. 

This conversation felt like a companion for the messy middle—a reminder that even when the path isn’t clear, growth is still possible, and it’s holy work.

We’re so grateful to Brian for this time, and we’re really excited to share it with you. 

Listen to Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Substack, or wherever you get your podcasts.