In this deeply moving conversation, Wil reconnects with Renee Smith, a researcher, writer, and advocate for love-centered leadership who has dedicated the last decade to transforming workplaces from spaces of fear into environments of connection and belonging. Their relationship spans nearly 20 years, from Wil's days as ASB president at UW-Tacoma to their current collaboration in making work—and the world—more loving and human.

Renee shares the powerful origin story of her life's work: a conversation with a leader who said the most important job was to "eliminate fear from the workplace." This sparked her realization that when fear decreases, something must take its place—and that something is love. She defines love as "the energy that uplifts and connects," and explains how this energy belongs in every aspect of our lives, from interactions with strangers to the structures and systems of our organizations.

The conversation moves through vulnerable territory, exploring the burden of perfectionism, the concept of "shitty first drafts," and the challenges of showing up authentically in spaces where we may not feel safe. Renee shares a raw, real-time story about her 15-year-old grandson living with her family after housing loss, and how even at her own dinner table, the need for connection and being seen is visceral and undeniable.

This Episode Touches On:

• The evolution of a 20-year friendship and professional relationship
• Love-centered leadership: what it means and why it matters
• The three pillars: love your team, embed love in your organization, love yourself
• Confident vulnerability as a leadership practice
• The burden of perfectionism, especially for marginalized identities
• Building trust and relationship in adversarial situations
• The importance of thriving wages and corporate responsibility to communities
• Employee experience and understanding what people truly need
• The gap between leaders and team members, and how to close it
• Creating authentic belonging vs. wearing masks to fit in
• The physical and emotional impact of not being seen or acknowledged
• Tipping the planet from fear to love by 2035

Memorable Quotes:

"Love is energy that uplifts and connects. We need this energy everywhere." - Renee Smith

"If you don't know your rights, you really don't have any." - Referenced from previous conversation

"We need each other. We need each other emotionally. We need each other physically." - Renee Smith

"Belonging is mutual." - Wil

"Leaders are people too. They are just people too, who are scared more often than you'd realize." - Renee Smith

"We don't have to wait for somebody else to do that. We do that every day." - Renee Smith on tipping the scales

"It matters if I look at you, it matters if I ask how you're doing. All of those little things matter because they tell us we're safe. We're at home-ish." - Renee Smith

Guest Information:
Renee Smith (pronouns: she/her)

• Founder, Center for a Loving Workplace
• Researcher, Writer, Speaker, and Teacher
• Former Director of Workplace Transformation, State of Washington
• Podcaster and Loving Leader
• Lifelong Washingtonian, Grandma, Mom, Sister
• On a mission to tip the planet from fear to love by 2035

Walk-Up Song: "September" by Earth, Wind & Fire

Why This Song: It's the song that marks when Renee and her husband became a couple (September 21, 2020), and they dance to it everywhere they go. It brings the right vibe and gets everyone dancing—which is exactly what love-centered leadership does.

Resources Mentioned:

• Center for a Loving Workplace: lovingworkplace.org
• Make Work More Human: makeworkmorehuman.com
• The Four Pivots by Shawn Ginwright
• Work by Sylvester McNutt on therapy and storytelling