Love Your Sales

In this episode of the Love Your Sales podcast, presented by Genhead, host Leighann discusses the intricacies of sales hiring and team building with guest Brian Maas, an expert in sales and leadership with over 26 years of experience. The conversation delves into the common pitfalls of sales hiring, the importance of creating detailed job descriptions, and the necessity of understanding the varying competencies required for different types of sales roles. Brian emphasizes the significance of proper onboarding, continuous coaching, and tailored motivational strategies. Additionally, the discussion touches on the need for a balanced compensation plan and the advantages of using specific sales talent assessments. The episode wraps up with actionable insights for founders, presidents, and sales managers aiming to build and scale high-performing sales teams.

Contact Brian -

Email - [email protected]

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmaas/

Website - www.intentionalselling.com

Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 and the AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast – www.accelerategrowth45.com  

Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/

The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489

Ready to grow your business? Schedule a call with us today  - https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/discoverysalesleighann

 Channel Subscribe link - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-O7W9DzaRv4waodQKCprIg?sub_confirmation=1

#sales #businessdevelopment #entrepreneur #entrepreneurship #selling #relashionships #customerexperience #podcast #loveyoursales #lastingrelashionships #salescareers #salesmanager #salesdevelopment #traininganddevelopment #leadershipdevelopment #salespodcast #salestraining

Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined by Brian Moss. Brian specializes in empowering founders, presidents, and sales Managers to build and scale high performing sales teams with confidence, clarity, and intention. With over 26 years of expertise in sales and leadership, Brian has partnered with small to midsize businesses to implement a data-driven process to identify [00:02:00] interview.

Onboard high performing salespeople who will sell in your unique selling environment and equip business leaders with a scalable framework. His mission is help companies avoid bad sales hires and build strong, high performing sales teams. Welcome Brian. I am so excited to talk about this.

Brian Maas: Thank you for having me, and thank you for all that you do for the business community.

Leighann Lovely: Well, so let's jump in because, um, I, well, first why don't you. Tell us a little bit about, you know, your business, what you do, you know, how, I guess, well, we'll get into the, how you do this, but Yeah, yeah. Just, you know, kind of fill in some of the blanks.

Brian Maas: Yeah. So when I, when I decided to go on my own and, and start my own business, I wanted to help sales, uh, organizations just be more, uh, effective in how they grow sales and how they grow.

And one of the things I was realizing was. That one of the most costly mistakes that sales [00:03:00] organizations make, of course, is, uh, sales hiring. And, uh, through all the years that I've done sales hiring, I've just learned some of the do's and don'ts around it. Um, I've learned which tools and processes to use, and so I'm, uh, helping companies, uh, put those same processes and best practices into place so that they can avoid, of course, the high cost of sales turnover.

So that's, that's, that's what I do today.

Leighann Lovely: So it, we've all, I think anybody who's been in business or been working out in the world for as long as well, I have, um, I'll speak for myself. I won't date you. Um, I think we've all, um, experienced that. Sitting next to somebody who you're like, how is this guy still or gal, um, still working at this company, you know, in the sales capacity.

Yeah, why haven't they got, why haven't they gotten fired or how did they even get hired? Um, so I'm intrigued, [00:04:00] you know, how, and, and salespeople, people are notoriously great at being able to speak a great game. You know, my dad always used to say like, well, you can go and get any job you want because you're really good at selling yourself.

Right, right. So let's talk about that. How, you know, yeah. What do you, how do you help businesses with this?

Brian Maas: Well, I, I think this is twofold. You know, you, you touched on it really well in that salespeople are really good at selling themselves. I think sometimes they tend to think they're better than they really are.

They're going after maybe positions that they aspire to be in. Um, and yet you've got sales hiring managers who many of them just don't have a whole lot of experience in how to deal with. Those types of, uh, situations, they don't have a whole lot of experience in hiring salespeople. Salespeople are so much different to hire than anybody else in your business, [00:05:00] right?

I mean, they are the, the face of your business. They're the ones carrying your brand, your messaging, how they differentiate themselves and. There's just so many, uh, you know, founders, for example, who are getting out of founder led sales, and they, they need to hire somebody to kind of take over and they don't know what to look for In a, in a sales hire, you've got presidents who maybe have got two or three salespeople under them who have just, you know, they heard from somebody, Hey, this person sales really well, and so they just brought them on board.

Just because they sold well in another company or environment doesn't mean they're gonna sell well in your environment. And so there's all kinds of, um, things that you can do to make sure that that salesperson is gonna sell in your environment and, and, and, and get around this whole notion that the salesperson can sell anything, because that's just not true.

There's, there's so many different factors involved, so many different core competencies in selling. And, uh, a lot of companies just don't step back and say, well, [00:06:00] look, if we're gonna grow our sales, they've gotta understand what the criteria for that role looks like and make sure that they've got a plan in place for the type of person that they need in that role.

So, um, a lot of it is just understanding. How to avoid that gap between the salesperson, you know, thinking they're going above and beyond what they can sell and the hiring manager looking for those things that are gonna, you know, fit well in their business for this salesperson

Leighann Lovely: abs. Absolutely. And and the other, as you were saying that, I was thinking to myself like, what about the kind of sale?

Yeah. You know, there's, there's. And, and, and I'm sitting here thinking about like the sales jobs that I've had. There's that instantaneous sale where somebody is walking into a store. Um, yeah. And I, I, I cut my teeth at, at a Sam's Club where I was one of the little booths that would pop up and they're [00:07:00] introducing new products so that you've got, you know, a little booth that people walk in and you're like, Hey, try this.

It's brand new. Right. Cleaning product or makeup Yeah. Or new knives or whatever it Right.

Brian Maas: Yeah,

Leighann Lovely: and that's, it's people who are going to Sam's Club are looking, they're gonna spend money. They typically, when they walk into a Sam's Club or they walk into a Costco or one of the big box stores,

Brian Maas: right,

Leighann Lovely: they're looking to drop at least a hundred, two, three.

I mean, people go in there and drop thousands of dollars, right? Yeah.

Brian Maas: Yeah,

Leighann Lovely: so it's easy for you to really quickly go, Hey, here's a really awesome new set of knives, only 49 99, and people are like, oh, okay. And sometimes people will be like, oh, I'll buy three of 'em. That's a really good deal. It's like it's an instantaneous instant gratification kind of sale.

Then you've got the. This is a 3, 4, 6 week sales cycle. Then you've got the, this is a six month, year long. Then you've got the enterprise like mass sales where it's, you get in there and it's [00:08:00] a year long, sometimes two year long sales cycle to break into these massive companies. That's, those are.

Completely different mindset and discipline. You're, yeah. Mining and dining, these people, you are.

Brian Maas: Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: I mean, so to try to hire somebody who's been in enterprise sales to sell that instantaneous, yeah, that probably, that may work. But to try to hire somebody who does the instantaneous sale. To the enterprise sale.

Brian Maas: Yeah. Yeah. You've all, you, you, you've heard about the, uh, the hunter versus the farmer, and then you've got, you know, someone who's just gonna take inbound leads from marketing and work those. You've got someone who's going to maybe go out and find new contacts or logos and then hand that off to an account manager.

Um, yeah, there's the, the, the length of your sales cycle, [00:09:00] the size of the sale that you're dealing with. All of those things factor into what are the competencies that you need from that salesperson to be able to do really well at that? How well are they that relationship building, you know, how well are they at actually reaching decision makers, getting commitment from the, from the buyer?

Um. There's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's selling competencies that fall into, you know, one of three categories. There's this will to sell, which is how committed are they, how motivated are they? Um, do they have the desire, do they have the right outlook? There's all kinds of things around sales, DNA you've probably heard, you know, like what are the self-limiting beliefs that keep us from selling?

Uh, you know, what are those things that get in the way? And then you got all the tactical, uh, pieces of, of those sales competencies, you know, getting to the decision maker and asking the right questions. How well can they ask consultative questions? How well can they, in those complex sales. Be able to make sure they've got the attention or understand the needs of all the different [00:10:00] stakeholders who are involved in that buying process.

So yeah, it goes, I mean, it's like a spider web. You've, you've gotta make sure you understand exactly what the role is gonna need right before you can even go out and, and, and hire somebody. And I think that's a big gap where a lot of hiring managers miss is they don't understand exactly what they're looking for.

So when it comes time to ask that sales person to come and, and say, Hey. How will you do what? Selling our product or service. The sales person's gonna go, wow. Yeah, I'm, I can do that. Right. They, they're just,

Leighann Lovely: well, I can sell anything I can. I'm great. Right. But I, I've also seen some of the most experienced salespeople who are used to selling to an owner walk into a room where all of a sudden they've got seven people sitting at the table and they freeze.

Brian Maas: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: And they're like, oh, wait, I, I. Um, I didn't expect that. I, I, and it's like. So [00:11:00] you've never given a presentation to Right. A boardroom.

Brian Maas: Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: Because that's also really intimidating to, especially when you have somebody, you know, one or two, and this has happened to me, where you've got five people at the table.

Table and then the two people in the back with their arms crossed, just staring. Right. Or half, you know, half falling asleep or something. And you're like, why are they, why are they here? Yeah. Um, and that, again, that's another, another competency where you don't, you don't think about it. You're like, oh, okay, well you're gonna be selling this.

Have you done, you know, have you sold to a group? Yeah. Have you presented to a large group? And that in itself can be intimidating.

Brian Maas: Very much so. And you know, I find too that there's a lot of salespeople out there that. They haven't had a formal sales training on just how to, how to sell the [00:12:00] methodology.

You know, the, the, the tactical, what happens in that dialogue with a buyer. You know, some do really, really well at, you know, engaging and asking the right questions. But unfortunately a lot of salespeople start out with that prospect and say, well, lemme tell you how great our product is and let me, let me open up my pres my PowerPoint presentation and start, you know, telling you.

You know, why you need what we're selling. It is just you, you've gotta flip the script on that, obviously. Right. So, um, you know, part of that interviewing process has got to be doing an audition in a way, you know, turning that interview into an audition and, and setting that sales person up so that they have to kind of prove to you that they've got the experience or the skills or the tactical, uh, expertise around.

How to engage that prospect in the right conversation too. Touched on something else about, you know. I, I if, if you, if you don't know like what your average sales size is or [00:13:00] how long your sales cycle is, or the personas of the people who you're going after, that's a really imp important part of the sales hiring manager knowing.

Um, you know, what that sales person needs to be engaged with. So, you know, how difficult is the sale? You know, are they gonna work the whole length of the sale themselves or are they gonna have a sales engineer or some subject matter expert coming into the sales process at some point in time? So there's a lot of factors that have to be thought through before you can even determine, you know, what, what, you know, going out and finding that sales person to start the interviewing process.

Leighann Lovely: So this, this, you, it just triggered a, an interesting story, Brian in my head. So, and this was a battle, I was a young salesperson. This was probably, um, this was years ago. I was in my first real sales role. I was, I was rocking it, I was doing really well. And, um, there was a whole new loop thrown in, or a whole new, I should say, not loop the, the whole new.[00:14:00]

Uh, challenge, I guess thrown in. Yeah. At me when, um, one of our, a new manager had come in and she had recommended that a new person start doing demos and this person, um, while be it was really good at their job, um, did not know how to. Present in front of people did not know the difference between training and demoing.

And I remember the first time she's like, yeah, take her out. She's gonna do the demo. And I'm like, oh, okay, that's fine. You know, it'll, that'll take some of the stress off of me of having to set up the demo and everything else. And this was on a software that I was not part of this, I was specialized in the time in tenants.

This was on the actual payroll side that connected to it. And when she started doing this demo, it [00:15:00] went into like, here's where you enter in the name, here's where you enter in the email, here's where, and I'm like. Are we, are we doing a demo or are we doing an e like a training session. Right,

Brian Maas: right. And

Leighann Lovely: it, it got to the point where it was painful for me.

I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm, I'm wanna blow my own head off. Like, this is horrible. Right. And it tanked it like it tanked the sale. Yeah. And so I had, I went back to my manager and I'm like, I, I can't. I can't take this person on a sales, like on a demo anymore. And they're like, why? And, and basically they told me that I was being mean and that I that like, you can't, you can't say that about another employee.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Like this is, this is what happened. Like, I'm not trying to be inappropriate. I'm just, and I got reprimanded for it and it was. Wait, but no, you don't like, no. Maybe I'm not saying it right because I'm new to this in like new to sales and stuff, but like, and so that's another aspect of it, like [00:16:00] yeah, you, you have to be hyper aware of the people in the room and their reactions.

Yeah. Like if you see people starting to, here's a perfect sign, if somebody has got one of their notebooks that you know that one of the ones that open. And all of a sudden they close it and they lean back from the table.

Brian Maas: That's a sign

Leighann Lovely: they're, they're ready to be done with the meaning.

Brian Maas: Right, right. You, you just

Leighann Lovely: lost them somewhere.

Exactly.

Brian Maas: Yeah. Like,

Leighann Lovely: I mean, body language speaks volumes, like you're probably not gonna get them back. Yeah, sorry. And we went off on a tangent. I wanna go back to the hiring portion of this, but Yeah, yeah. You triggered that story in my head and I was like, oh my gosh. I re, I remember. Um, so trying to take somebody, you know, out of their role and make them a salesperson.

Brian Maas: Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: That is a dangerous thing as well. And I've seen that happen at companies. Yeah. Where they're like, oh, but [00:17:00] she's really great at training and stuff. Why don't we have her do this? Yeah. Be careful with that too.

Brian Maas: Yeah. I mean, you touched on something though too, because that's a good part of the interviewing process for salespeople is, is, is identifying those things.

You know, you, you find the salespeople who are way too wordy and they keep talking and talking and talking, you know, and then you find the ones that are, they're, they're, they're too succinct in their answers. Um, and, and little things like that. It's, it's the, it's the visual cues and things that you wanna look for, because in the interview process, it doesn't get any better than the face-to-face interview.

Mm-hmm. If you're seeing things that are a red flag. You know, you've, you've gotta, you gotta be able to call that out or at least, you know, dock 'em for that. And it's not me neither. That's just being very objective.

Leighann Lovely: Right. And again, this was a long, a very, very, very long time ago. Um, and, and I think, you know, now, and, and I was also young, you know, I think, oh, she's just young and she doesn't know what she's talking.

Okay, [00:18:00] well, yeah, now I'm, I'm a little older and I still remember that, but yeah. And, and that's. You when, when you are interviewing a salesperson, it's important that you are, are seeing them face to face, seeing their body language, seeing their, everybody's heard of the resting be face. Um, yeah. So that's another thing is that a salesperson has to be, they have to be engaged.

Brian Maas: Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: And if that person doesn't look engaged or. Is constantly looking at their cell phone or is not right. Uh, the, and I've had that, I've had, where I had a sales call today on my cell phone and I said, hello. And he asked me a couple of questions and I was like, I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said. And he goes, I'm sorry, can you hold please you?

No, I can't. No, you.[00:19:00]

Brian Maas: That's great.

Leighann Lovely: I'm like, click. I hung up. Like I, I mean,

Brian Maas: yeah.

Leighann Lovely: People today are so oblivious to the level of their importance to other people. Yes, yes. That the audacity that he would call me and then say, can you hold plea?

Brian Maas: Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: No, I cannot. I no. People, um. Salespeople think sometimes because a lot of salespeople have egos.

I mean, that's no,

gee, you know, I'm sorry guys. All you know, girls and gals out there who are in sales.

Brian Maas: So true.

Leighann Lovely: We do have a tendency to sometimes have egos. Um, we do sometimes have to be told like, Hey, you. You're not, you are [00:20:00] not what everybody, like, people don't necessarily, they're not flocking to you. Right. You are the least important person in that other person's world right now.

Brian Maas: Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: And the only way you're gonna be become important is if you make them the most important person in the world.

Brian Maas: Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, people do business with people who they like and people do business with, people who are like themselves. So a lot of this comes down to how well do you bond and build rapport and find commonality.

And, and those are things even to look for in the, in the hiring. Hiring, um, you know, world too. You know, when they, when they, when you're first meeting somebody. So, um, yeah, that's really important.

Leighann Lovely: So let me ask you, Brian, where do you, where do you start to find these people where, I mean, is there, is there like a best practice place to even begin because there's so much noise and so many rabbit holes [00:21:00] you could go down on the internet.

Yeah.

Brian Maas: Yeah. You know, um, the, the, the first reaction for everybody is, you know, post an ad on, on, on LinkedIn or Indeed or in one of those, you know, websites. And those are great. They're, they're okay. Um, LinkedIn's probably one of the best, but try to think outside the box. Where are the salespeople that you wanna hire hanging out?

Because you're not just looking for the people who are. Proactively looking on LinkedIn because they're out of a job, right? Um, there's plenty of people out there who are passively looking for their next big role. Where are they hanging out? Is it at the golf club? Is it at an association that you belong to?

Is it, it, it could be any number of places. It just kind of depends on your business and your industry and where you're at. But just getting creative and thinking outside the box a little bit about where some of the people that you're looking for might be hanging out, uh, and getting referrals. Um.

Sometimes you've [00:22:00] gotta go source 'em yourself. You know, you've gotta be more proactive to do a search on LinkedIn of people who are maybe in your industry or have the role that's similar to yours. But, um, yeah, I, I think a lot of it is, um, being able to, you know, read a good resume too when you've got, uh, an ad that's on LinkedIn or Indeed, uh, you get tons of resumes in and a lot of people don't know how to read a resume between the lines.

I've never seen a bad sales resume. No, they all look stellar, you know? Right. You know, so what, what are you looking for on that resume? You know, so there's a, there's a lot of a lot of things to be thinking about, but to answer your question, um, you know, just try and get creative and think about where those sales people are hanging out that you wouldn't have otherwise found for sure.

Leighann Lovely: Again, it comes down to salespeople are brilliant at selling themselves, not only in person, but also on paper. Because they know exactly what to say and what to do in order to get [00:23:00] hired. Doesn't mean that they are necessarily the right person for the criteria, which means I'm gonna guess that you're gonna also be you when a job description is written.

Brian Maas: Yes, because if you look at most job postings today, they're all the same. They talk about the company, they talk about the roles and responsibilities they got the benefits, you know. They don't, they don't excite a salesperson. Right? So writing that job description or that job posting should have words in their like.

You get excited about calling on new prospects, or you get jazzed or energized by, you know, solving problems for clients. And, and that ad [00:24:00] should, should cover all the things that we've talked about in the role criteria that they're going to be doing. You know, um, you're motivated by money, you're, you're excited about, you know, reaching out to new people and building relationships.

Um, you love to follow up on inbound leads, you know. Things that a sales person's gonna read to go, oh, this is me. They're talking about me. You know? Mm-hmm. Not a list of roles and responsibilities, you know, or the, the company culture. Yes, that's important, but tell them exactly what the job is going to entail.

What are they gonna be doing? What are the things that are gonna get them excited and energized about the role? And once you've, and, and that's just trying to attract the right candidate that that'll weed out the wannabes who we're looking at only the, you know, the culture and the benefits and how much they're gonna get paid.

And they're not focusing as much on the, what am I actually going to be, you know, measured on and, and, and asked to do. So now [00:25:00] you've brought up another question.

Leighann Lovely: Okay. So I've had a lot of companies come to me, um, and say, you know. We're gonna drop our salaries across the board. Um, and, and they're newer companies and they don't have that big bloated budget where they're like, yeah, we're gonna pay a person a hundred thousand, $150,000 base and then commission.

Yeah. Which every sales person's like, oh yeah, great. $150,000 base plus commission. That's, that'll be awesome. Um, versus the $30,000 base and you have to work for it. But a lot more companies these days I'm hearing are saying, well, we're gonna pay a lower base because we want them to have to work for it.

Yeah. And I'm like, okay, that's, that's great. But. So are you, are you hearing more and more companies kind of doing that? Like, well, I, I need them to work for it. They like, we're gonna drop those salaries down because the salespeople really has to, I wanna only attract [00:26:00] somebody who knows that they're gonna have to work for it.

Brian Maas: Yeah. I mean, you gotta think about what. The role entails in terms of the behaviors you want because you want somebody to elicit those behaviors to go after the right level of, of selling. I don't hear companies necessarily, you know, lowering their base pay to increase their variable compensation as much as I hear.

It's gotten more competitive nowadays and they've actually gotta probably raise their base in order to attract the right candidate. But it's finding that right balance between the base pay and what you want them. To go and do in order to earn that variable compensation or that that commission or bonus or whatever the case it may be.

And there's just so many ways to structure a compensation plan today. Um, I, I just heard recently how some companies are, um, still trying to do a [00:27:00] commission only. You know, and it's like, I'm sorry, but we moved, we moved on from that years ago, and that's just not, and they're doing it because they don't wanna pay a salary, you know?

'cause they can't afford the salary. Right. Um, you've got 1% of people who will probably jump at that and that's just not gonna work and it's not gonna allow you to attract the right candidates, so.

Leighann Lovely: Right. No, I, people will come to me or I, again, I, I worked in the staffing industry for many years and commission only.

Um. I secretly would giggle at it and be like, who? Who are you trying to attract here? Right? Yeah. 'cause the idea of commission, people now need a living wage and with everything continuing just, just increase. People have to because yeah, in most, even in, even in the really quick turnaround sales, it. You can't go, there's still the learning curve.

Three, two, you know, four, four to six weeks. There's still a learning curve until you get at least [00:28:00] enough to come in. And that's on the quick sales.

Brian Maas: Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah. Like if you're planning on not paying somebody any type of base whatsoever, then they're, they're not, you're not gonna get a quality Right. A quality person and you will continue to just churn and burn.

Yeah. Um, and that just costs, that, that literally costs your company money. Despite the fact that you're not co maybe not covering a base, you're still spending time training them at the expense of whoever's time is training them.

Brian Maas: Exactly. And I think on the flip side of that too, you've got, um, you know, people tend to pay too much in commissions.

I, I, I hear companies, you know, overpaying salespeople for very easy sales. In other words, if, if the, the less that your sales person is engaged in the sales process, the less variable comp or commission they should be getting paid. [00:29:00] So take somebody for example, where you've got an inbound lead. And it's a one call close.

You know that that shouldn't be a lot of commission on that sale versus the person who's spending 2, 3, 4 sales calls in a complex five month sale. Obviously that's gonna be a much bigger, you know. Uh, variable compensation, so,

Leighann Lovely: well, and I've, I've seen companies where they call the, the cold callers. The Biz dev who are scheduling the appointments aren't even making commission.

They're just a salaried employee who just sit and make calls. Oh, yeah, no, I mean, and then send it to the sales person, and you're like, wait a second, you aren't. Isn't the the person making the appointments, doing the

Brian Maas: Exactly.

Leighann Lovely: The most of the work.

Brian Maas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You gotta, they're

Leighann Lovely: doing, they're doing the kind of the crappy job,

Brian Maas: right?

Right. Well, you've, you've gotta reward your, your people for the right behaviors. And if, if, if, if the, if the cost of a customer is something [00:30:00] that, you know, you're trying to navigate, um, you, you've gotta look at that. As a piece of the compensation puzzle of how, how difficult it is to go find a new customer today.

I mean, we all know it's easy to grow existing accounts and, and, and marketing drives a lot of leads for some companies. But those companies that have to go out and find new logos, there's a high cost behind that. And so what that acquisition cost of that customer is, you've gotta be able to reward the salespeople for that behavior.

Um, and, and, and by the way, not all salespeople are motivated by money. A lot of salespeople today are motivated intrinsically, they just want to hear, Hey, you're doing a great job. Or they wanna see their name on the top of a leaderboard, or they wanna win a trip, or, you know, something tangible. It's, it's not always the money behind it either.

And those are important things to be looking for as you're, as you're putting together a comp plan and, and even interviewing your salespeople about, you know, what motivates them. Because if, if we're rewarding, what motivates them, that just makes the more, more likely that they're gonna stick around with you.[00:31:00]

Leighann Lovely: Oh, I loved the trips. You know, the top producers used to get, you know, a trip to, well it was different places, but, um, I, and one year I was pregnant and they even said, Hey, just because you can't make this year's, you know, company trip, we'll, we'll let you do it at a different time. And it was like, oh my God, that's so cool.

Yeah, exactly. You know, and I was, I mean, I was like big pregnant, like, not like, oh, I can still go. I was like, you know, ready to pop. It's not safe to travel kind of pregnant, so. Right, right. You know, and I loved being, I loved those trips. I loved like, oh yeah, I'm gonna make it this year. I'm like, and then there was other years where it's like, oh, I might not do it.

And then it like at the last second, or, and then there was years where it's like, oh, I've already got that in the bag.

Brian Maas: Yeah, right.

Leighann Lovely: You know, so, and. Again, I still loved my commission. I am definitely a money driven person, but sure, you're, you're completely correct. Not everybody is driven by money, and you can't not hire somebody [00:32:00] if money is not their number one motivator.

Right. Because some companies will be like, well, I want money to be your motivator. Yeah. Well, what if it's not? What if exactly. I'm okay with my a hundred thousand dollars salary, but my motivator is x. Yeah, as long as it's not that I just am okay with making a hundred thousand dollars and I don't wanna go out and sell.

Brian Maas: Yeah,

Leighann Lovely: because that's a problem too.

Brian Maas: Yeah. And a lot of that comes into play too, with the coaching that's happening with these salespeople that you're bringing on board too. It, it's understanding what motivates them and, you know, supporting them and helping them, making sure that, you know, they, there aren't hurdles in their way to accomplishing their goal.

You know, it's, it's one thing to hire the right person, but you know, it's the, it's the onboarding. Piece of this too that I think a lot of companies forget about and understanding how to set that rep up for success. How to give them the tools and the resources they need and understand, you know, what that cadence with their [00:33:00] manager is gonna look like in terms of what expectations need to be set and how they're gonna be held accountable, how they're gonna be measured.

All of that is really important. Once you get this, this person onboarded

Leighann Lovely: and, and Brian, that is a, an entire nother conversation when you said, yeah, it is how you're gonna coach that person. Because we could, we could go on for another hour about the amount of companies that hire and then don't coach and just go, yes, here's what you're selling.

Good luck.

Brian Maas: Yeah, yeah. You know, and some people run into issues. Issues with hiring and, and it's, it's, it's, uh, it's on them because they didn't do the right job. And, and sometimes it's, yeah, the sales person didn't have, you know, wasn't, had the expectations set for them and they get into a role and go, oh gosh, this isn't what I was sold, or this isn't what I was expecting, or, I'm not getting the support that I need from my manager and they leave.

Right. So there's, there's a balance there. And that's, that's I think where some companies struggle to figure out, you know, we got a hiring problem. Is it my process? Is it the people I'm hiring or is it. As a company and a [00:34:00] culture and how we coach, you know? So there's a lot, there's a lot to that. This isn't easy stuff.

Leighann Lovely: No, no, it's not. Now, do you recommend any type of, um, personality assessments, any type of, um, you know, the big one obviously is, um, di you know, disc, but there's, yeah, God, there's so many of them out there now.

Brian Maas: Um, there's only, the one that I use is by a company called the Objective Management Group. And it is a candidate assessment, uh, that measures 21 core competencies of sales, and it's only measuring core competencies of sales.

In fact, it's the only one in the world that just measures sales competencies. It's not personality or behavioral stuff. It's can this person sell in your environment? And it, and it measures not only their sales skills, but how well they. Will perform in a particular company based on that company's role criteria.

So it's a, it's a pretty cool assessment, but I, I, I do recommend [00:35:00] that as part of any hiring process because it does help weed out, you know, think of it as a, as a, as an MRIA doctor can't see below the surface. So they've gotta kind of do an X-ray, right. And a, a sales talent assessment is just that. It's getting below the surface.

It's finding those things that are very difficult for a, a hiring manager to interview for because we can't see the self-limiting beliefs or we can't see the level of commitment, motivation, desire that a sales person has. Those are very hard things to interview for. So, uh, yeah, to your point, uh, using a tool like that is, is gonna be really beneficial in the process.

Leighann Lovely: And what is that one called again?

Brian Maas: Uh, the company's called Objective Management Group, and it is a sales candidate assessment. Um, they've been around 35, 40 years. They've, uh, assessed two and a half million salespeople with 36,000 customers. It's been validated by multiple PhD psychologists. Uh, so it's, it's been proven using scientific data to make sure that the candidate you're bringing [00:36:00] on matches up against what it is you're trying to, trying to hire.

Leighann Lovely: I am wildly interested in that. Now. I'm now I'm gonna be looking into that one. Yes. Well, we, we are coming to time. I, I, I mean, I wish time goes by way too fast.

Brian Maas: It goes by quick. Yes. We can talk about this all day.

Leighann Lovely: I know. I'm such a nerd. Um. But I'm happy that I'm this big of a nerd. Um, but Brian, this has been such an amazing conversation.

Yeah. And I wanna give you your 32nd shameless pitch so you can go for it.

Brian Maas: Yeah. Thank you. Well, you know, I, I think I, I got into this role because the cost of sales, uh, bad sales hires can be hundreds of thousands of dollars. And, um, I'm, I'm really focused on those founders, presidents, and even sales managers who.

Are struggling with bad sales hiring situations, and I take them through a, an objective driven process that helps 'em identify, [00:37:00] interview, and onboard a candidate who will sell at a high performance. Basis in their unique environment. But beyond that, it's also making sure they've got the right framework in their sales function to make sure that candidate is successful in terms of sales process metrics, coachability and trainability as well too.

So

Leighann Lovely: Awesome. And if you wanna reach out to Brian, you can find, um, how to do that. Um, in the show notes, I will include his website, his email, and his LinkedIn so you can, um, reach out to Brian there. So awesome. Thank you again so much. This has been an awesome conversation.

Brian Maas: Thank you for having me. I enjoyed talking about it.

AccelerateGrowth45: This podcast is presented by Accelerate Growth 45, your one stop shop for business growth. Stop running your business like an operator, delaying wealth creation and sacrificing your time. Instead, focus on building a [00:38:00] valuable business asset, creating lasting wealth and reclaiming the time you deserve.

Accelerate your growth today and visit us at accelerategrowth45. com.

Robb Conlon: Thanks for joining us for Love Your Sales. For More, connect with Leanne on LinkedIn and be sure to subscribe to the show and leave us a rating in review. We'd love to hear what you think, looking for a way to take your sales process to the next level. Visit [email protected] to find out more about how Leanne can take your organization to new Revenue Heights.

And be sure to join us next time for more great ways to love your customers so they love your [00:39:00] sales.

In this episode of 'Love Your Sales', hosted by Leighann we explores the common pitfalls in sales and how to overcome them. Special guest, Laura Lorenz from Top Floor Mentoring, shares her 35-year journey in supporting entrepreneurs and provides deep insights into the importance of understanding the 'why' behind business goals. Laura highlights the significance of building detailed roadmaps, time management, and the need for external mentorship to achieve business success. She emphasizes that success is a marathon, not a sprint, and advocates for focusing on revenue-generating tasks. The episode concludes with Laura offering a complimentary consultation to help business owners create effective strategies and solutions tailored to their unique needs.

Contact Laura - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauralorenz/

Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 and the AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast – www.accelerategrowth45.com  

Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/

The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489

Ready to grow your business? Schedule a call with us today  - https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/discoverysalesleighann

Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. Today I am joined by Laura Lorenz with Top Floor Mentor Ring Laura Lorenz. She is the trusted advisor for small businesses with an incredible 35 year journey supporting entrepreneurs. Laura isn't just a business counselor. She is a true champion for dream chasers and business builders.

I love that. Her passion, helping passionate people [00:02:00] transform their business ideas into thriving realities. Having walked the entrepreneurial path herself as a business owner, Laura brings this wonderful blend of professional expertise and heartfelt understanding to everything she does. Why don't you, um, share with me anything that I didn't include to lovely bio.

Yes, yes. So, you know, uh. Tell me, you know, tell me a little bit more about what Top Floor mentoring is.

Laura Lorenz: Sure. So, um, what I do is I work with solopreneurs, small business owners, um, and, and actually helping them get to be where they wanna be. I find that, um, when you have help, which I have always had somebody in my corner that wasn't an employee or anything, when you get help and people can see from the outside.

Looking in, it is amazing the things that you can accomplish and someone to help you [00:03:00] actually, um, step over the, the hurdles that you go through in business and in life. Um, someone there cheering you on when things are good. It's just, that's pretty much in a nutshell what I do. But I do build these very big roadmaps.

So a lot of people will set goals, right? Mm-hmm. And that's what they are. And even some of 'em are smart goals, but they never seem to get to be where they wanna go. And it's, uh, there a lot of reasons for it. The biggest one is they don't dig deep enough into the why of their goals. So that on hard days when you are stumbling or a client that you loved quits or something like that, you go back to, but this is why I am doing what I'm doing and why I love it.

Right. Right. So that's the beginning of the roadmap is really understanding that why. 'cause a lot of times people will set goals that they think they should be achieving, right? [00:04:00] And when they get into the why, they can't figure out why they think that. So then don't make it be a goal, right? Let's, let's look at ones that are important to you.

You know, what is your why in life or your why in business? And then go from there.

Leighann Lovely: That's, that is really very interesting because you are absolutely, absolutely correct. Um, and that I think, gets lost sometimes, you know, from, from the, I'm gonna start my own business mm-hmm. To the, okay, now I'm in the thick of it and I'm stressed out and we lose.

You know, speaking, obviously as an entrepreneur, we lose sight of why we began it. Mm-hmm. And when you lose sight of that, all of a sudden all of that overwhelm creeps in.

Laura Lorenz: It does.

Leighann Lovely: And you're like, oh my what? What am I doing? [00:05:00] Why am I doing this?

Laura Lorenz: Yep. You know, everybody thinks it's so cool to build a business.

You know, people coming from the corporate world are like, oh, I'm just gonna go out and start my own business. Well. There's a lot of heartache in owning your own business. There's a lot of hours, there's a lot of just, ugh. But if you have that why, and you really understand why you're doing what you're doing, it helps you get a better mindset looking back at it and go from, I'm overwhelmed and I can't stand it, and I have too many hats and I don't know what to do to, okay.

You know what? Here's my big why. You know, whether it's your children or trips or you know, just whatever you're doing. If you can have even a picture of that on your desk after a bad colleague, you can look at it and go, oh yeah, here we are.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah, that, that makes a a lot of sense. So when you start working with somebody, um.

Do they often [00:06:00] know or remember? And I, well, first, let's start, let's, let's back up a little bit. When do you typically engage with somebody? Are they brand new entrepreneurs? Are they into their business? A year, five years, 20 years, where usually

Laura Lorenz: about two years. You know, I, I, I love brand new ENT entrepreneurs, but they need to work through all the things they wanna try first.

So usually people come to me when they're stuck like they're trying to scale or they, they just want to do this one thing that they haven't been able to attain. And that's where we'll start.

Leighann Lovely: Interesting. Okay. So at that, at that point, do they remember the why?

Laura Lorenz: Uh, no. Um, not their deep why. There's, there's always like the, well, I hated working for this company and I wanted to [00:07:00] do it on my own, or I could do it better than the boss.

All of those kinds of things are the superficial why. Right? Yep. But you have to dig really, really deep to understand what is keep getting you up out of bed every day to come and do this. 'cause it's not an easy thing.

Leighann Lovely: And so where do you start, you know, working with somebody on bringing them back down. I mean, and I'm gonna use this back down to earth really on and, and helping them really ground themselves in that why.

Laura Lorenz: Well, you know, you start with, we talk about their original why and, and I'll the one that they have superficially and I keep going, but why did you think you could do that? But why did you, but why? Nobody ever digs. Much past the third. Why? You know? 'cause it's like, this is, this is really hard. I can't figure [00:08:00] it out.

But if you ask it enough and you, you know, how does this impact you? All of those kinds of things, you will get back. Two, the real reason, you know, for me, I have a beautiful life. I love helping people. Um, I have a passion for that, but my real why, to be honest with you was, um, my husband has Parkinson's and he loves F1 racing, and so I'm working on.

Earning enough money to spend a year traveling the circuit with him before he can't. So, and you know, and that's a huge why, because I adore my husband. I've been married 34 years, and I want to make him happy, right. As along with the rest of the world. But that's my real why. That's what keeps me going. So what I'm hearing is that the why can change.

Absolutely, absolutely. When you start a business, there's so many reasons you started, you know, part of it is you wanna prove to yourself that you can do it so you, [00:09:00] you know, you're proud of yourself and those kinds of things. But as you go, I. That starts to kind of leave a little in your head. Mm-hmm. And you're like, okay, I'm here.

And now I'm in the thick of things. What is making me get up every day for this business? And it's got to come back for the passion of, of what you do. Right. Why, right. Why do you do this?

Leighann Lovely: Does, why does this make you happy? Very interesting. So now I'm going to, I'm gonna hit you with some hard ones here because Oh, good.

So obviously this is a sales podcast, and so business owners start their business. Mm-hmm. Usually because they have a unique superpower or skill in what they understand. Right. I'm gonna go and sell this widget 'cause I really understand this industry. I know how to get this brand new product widget, whatever it might be out to market.

Laura Lorenz: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: Where we [00:10:00] have a tendency to struggle fall short or even get overwhelmed. Is doing the thing. Well, I know that I get overwhelmed when I try to do my accounting. I get that. I agree.

Laura Lorenz: And I hate it.

Leighann Lovely: I, I hate my, uh, so that's, that's the point of contention for me in my business is I don't know how to do this.

When I try to do it, I become overwhelmed. That's where. Business owners don't realize when they start their business, you are now your salesperson, you are your accountant, you are your admin, you are your everything. Yep,

Laura Lorenz: yep. All those hats and more the marketing person, and I mean, that's all of it.

Leighann Lovely: Sometimes I wanna take those hats and just throw 'em in a closet and be like, okay, no more. I just wanna do this. So do you help business owners on figuring out. How do we, how do we do [00:11:00] this? Mm-hmm. Like how do we do the sales part? How do we do this? What is the answer to that? Especially in the sales, like right.

No sales, no business. Well,

Laura Lorenz: right. I mean, you have to really look at, because I, I, I know from my own self and other people that I work with, we, when we find ourselves doing all of those kinds of things, you do get overwhelmed. And what you need to do is look at what is it that you love? What is it that you hate but have to do, right?

Like the accounting, um, and then what are things that you're doing that are just a huge time waster? Right, right. So a lot of times what I'll have people do is track their time in half an hour increments to see what is it that they are doing and putting the most time into. Right? And then look at the love, you know, the love, the I gotta do it, and what can I get rid of?

Then we [00:12:00] start looking at putting together a time management, like for me, Mondays and Fridays usually are my day to work on my business instead of in my business. So, you know, that's when I would say, okay, knuckle down, do your accounting, send out your invoices. Let's work. And then, you know, part of it can be, what, what am I doing for my marketing this week?

You know, let's work on that. Those kinds of things. So if you time block 'em, and it doesn't have to be at full days, it can be hours in the day, it just, however your flow works for you mm-hmm. It becomes more manageable. And as you look at that list of what can I get rid of and stop doing, if you catch yourself doing it, stop.

I mean, my, my problem in life is I love to read people's stuff on LinkedIn. So I'm sucked in for hours. I'm like, wait, wait, wait. I'm supposed to be responding to comments. Um,

right. [00:13:00] Anyways. Um, but yeah, I, I, and I even color code my calendar, which is ridiculous, but then it's tracking how much time I'm spending all, all week on each particular thing. But it, it's, part of it is a discipline. And you've got to, you know, on those Mondays and Fridays. That I do. If someone calls and says they absolutely wanna talk to me, if they're a prospect, I will find a way to speak to them.

But if it's just a networking call or somebody wants to chitchat, I'm like, no, here's the times that I have set aside for that. Let's put you there. So that, that was a long-winded answer to your

Leighann Lovely: question. No, but it's a, it's a really good answer because, um, we as human beings have a tendency to. To migrate to what we'd like to do.

Mm-hmm. And fail, I don't wanna say fail, um, that's not the right word. Um, kind of forget or push aside the things that we [00:14:00] don't necessarily like to do and not everybody likes to do sales.

Laura Lorenz: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: But the, the problem with that is that if you're not selling at some point, now, I'm not speaking well, if you're a business that's been in in business for about two years, then you're probably not at a point yet where you're able to rely on a hundred percent referrals or a hundred percent organic or a hundred percent.

You still have to be actively selling. Yes. And that means having the discipline. To pick up the phone and make those cold calls.

Laura Lorenz: Yep.

Leighann Lovely: To pick up the phone and tap into some of those referral sources that you have that of people who are like, yeah, I definitely will refer somebody if I know somebody.

They're not always thinking about you. No. So you still have to do that networking, cultivate those relationships, go on LinkedIn, reply to those comments, not get sucked into that next video of [00:15:00] Thank you. I won't

Laura Lorenz: anymore.

Leighann Lovely: No, and I'm, everybody is guilt. Social media is the, I mean, it's so easy to get sucked in is

Laura Lorenz: it?

Leighann Lovely: Is. On. Every time I go on Facebook, I get sucked into some like, oh, watch this hack video. And then it's like 20 minutes later I'm like, what am I doing?

Laura Lorenz: You know, I have found, and, and I recommend this for all of my clients and you who are listening, get a timer, right? And if, if you have blocked your time out, it's like, okay, I have an hour to do this.

And if I find myself at the end of the hour, it goes ding. And you're still there messing around. You're like, oh God, I gotta get back to what I was doing right. If I, at social media, it's like I put on a 15 minute timer if I think about it, and I really should do it more often because if I'm spending more than 15 minutes not commenting and just reading and checking [00:16:00] things out, then it's a waste of my time.

And, and as a business owner and a solopreneur, you can't afford to not do the one thing that is gonna make you money. I mean, it's, you

Leighann Lovely: just, yeah. Absolutely. I have a timer. You know, especially it is it, it's too easy to get so hyper-focused on something and comp have everything else around you just wash away.

Um, to the point I've missed my daughter at the bus stop because I'm like, I'll look at the clock and be like, okay, I've got five minutes, then I've gotta go get my daughter. And then all of a sudden my daughter's standing at the front door like, mommy, why didn't you meet me at the bus stop? And I'm like, oh my God.

I now have a timer every day that goes off. Say, saying. Get up, get your butt outta your chair and go get your daughter. There you go. Yep. And because

Laura Lorenz: it's not wrong that you need that because we, we do get sucked into things. Mm-hmm. And we have to remember, I, I'll definitely do that when I'm writing, um, my content for [00:17:00] marketing.

I get into it and I'll of a sudden I'll look up and I'm like. Oh my God. I, you know, it, I missed a call that I was supposed to make. Right. Then I'm calling apologizing and everything starts going, you know, so Right. Is having a time or an important thing.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah. Abs and I have, um, I'm afraid to say her name.

She's gonna start talking to me. Um, I have Alexa at my, at my desk. Okay. Shouldn't talk. Um, that where I can easily say, put a 10 minute timer on and then sh and then it goes off. And it, and again, the AI world makes it really, really easy for us to quickly do a variety of things. And I've been talking to other people where all of a sudden they're like, oh, that's my Alexa timer going off.

And I'm like, see how much? I mean, and again, if people are not users of that, if they're users of Google or whatever it might be, it's really simple. Nowadays to just quickly put a, you got your cell phone sitting, put a timer on. [00:18:00] Yep. Allowing you to time block. In today's world with all the boops and blings and everything else that's going off the hacker videos, the, you know, the, OR hack life hack videos.

That's, that's, those are the ones that get me sucked in where I'm like, oh, wow. I could make an egg like that that much easier. Wow. That's really cool. Some people it's the cat videos or the dog videos or whatever it is. I always, I, I, when I work with a client, I always talk about revenue generating tasks.

Mm-hmm. You can't do it for eight hours a day. No. But doing it for an hour a day, and then in the morning, an hour a day in the afternoon, on the days that you have chosen for your sales activities, if you can get hyper-focused and break those hours up, even if you're. Even if it's those hard ones where you're like, okay, I'm only gonna do this for a half an hour a day.

Mm-hmm. Or a half an hour in the morning. A half an hour in the afternoon. Because it's [00:19:00] just those things that are really hard for you. Mm-hmm. If you can stay focused on those revenue generating tasks for a half an hour at a time, fine. Do

Laura Lorenz: it for a half an hour. Huge, huge. And, and we put that kind of thing in the roadmap, right.

That I build. It's like we start with, here's my big. Fat hairy goal that I really wanna achieve. Well, now let's walk our way back to what kinds of things do you need to be doing to actually achieve this on a monthly basis, on a weekly basis, and on a daily basis? Great. Let's plug that into the calendar, right?

So all of what we're talking about, if you. Break your goals down into those small bite-sized pieces for the week. But you can attain crazy things as long as you've time blocked what you're gonna do.

Leighann Lovely: I love that. So starting with that big gigantic [00:20:00] goal mm-hmm. And then you, you help people break that down.

Yep. Into those

Laura Lorenz: add all bites. So. 'cause nobody can eat an elephant all at once. Right. Well,

Leighann Lovely: I've seen plenty of people try and fail

Laura Lorenz: and then be so di disappointed. The other thing that I always tell people is when we're putting milestones into this, this is just. For us to like, keep working at it. But if you don't get it and you're 80% there, don't beat yourself up, right?

You're, you made 80% of it and now let's just move the milestone out a little bit and get to where you wanted to be. 'cause I find people, if you don't hit that goal on the day that you're gonna supposed to hit the goal. Um, get, then it's not important anymore and I'm gonna do something else 'cause I failed and I don't wanna look at it.

It's like, but no, the date that we set wasn't achievable. We thought it was, but based on what's been [00:21:00] going on every day it wasn't. So let's move it a little more, you know, and keep working. Right.

Leighann Lovely: Very interesting. And you're right, it's. I've done that where it's like, okay, by this date I'm gonna do this.

And then when that passes, it's like, oh, okay, well guess that's over. Yeah,

Laura Lorenz: because I didn't meet myself.

Leighann Lovely: But success is not, it's not a destination.

Laura Lorenz: No, no. And, and we are not running, you know, the one mile dash, this is a marathon running a business, right? Yeah. I mean, it's a forever thing. So you can't, it's hard, I think, sometimes for salespeople who work for corporations that have deadlines and quotas and things like that.

I mean, I, I get that. Then they did not achieve the goal that their bus set out for them. Right. But, you know, then you gotta start looking at, if I'm consistently not hitting my [00:22:00] targets, am I doing the right thing? Right. Right.

Leighann Lovely: Yes. And as a sales professional who has coached and worked with other sales professionals, um, throughout my entire career, um, there are clear, clear.

Or flags that go off mm-hmm. In, in salespeople when you go, okay, this person is not gonna hit their quota, their goals, especially, and, and especially when I was mentoring younger salespeople, I could see the writing on the wall far. Far before they could even see the writing on the wall that they were not gonna meet, you know, the expectations that were set for them.

Mm-hmm. And, and sometimes you're even too close to it, especially being a newer salesperson. You'll be so close, you're too close to it being that it's yourself, that you're not gonna meet it. And trying to explain to them like, Hey, [00:23:00] I, I understand that you feel that you're, that you're, you're busy. You're busy all the time, but being busy is not the same as being productive.

Exactly.

Laura Lorenz: Exactly. And you know, this society, we're also prone to, I'm busy all the time. Right, right. Well, 'cause you can fill your day with whatever you want and you're busy, but that doesn't. Again, it goes back to what's revenue generating for an entrepreneur, for a salesperson that works at a company, and it's all the same thing, right?

What's making the money? And if you're, if it's not, don't do it. Right. Just stop doing what you're doing. I'm such a huge fan of the one thing. I, I, I got a lot of what I work with is, it's a book called The One Thing, and that that's your big goal. And that's where every day you look and you say, what three things can I do today to move myself forward to achieve that goal?

Right. Do those things first, [00:24:00] then look at all of the other hats that you're wearing and go, God, I hate this accounting, but it's gotta be done. Right. Right.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah, absolutely. And as long as you're. Ticking off those boxes of what has to be done. Mm-hmm. In order to move. You'll continue to inch forward understanding.

Um, just for the audience here, understanding that while you may be taking great strides forward, there will always be a time where you may take a step or two back. Mm-hmm. Because that is the nature of the beast.

Laura Lorenz: Oh yes. Oh yes. I.

Leighann Lovely: And, and then I've seen that in my own business. I've been in business now two and a half years, and I have seen huge strides forward, and I actually made the strategic decision to take a gigantic step back because I didn't like where the ship was, was sailing off to.

In fact, I felt like I was in the dinghy, you know, following behind the ship. And I was going, wait a second. Why is my, why is [00:25:00] my business leaving without me? I'm, I'm supposed to be running it. Why is it running me?

Laura Lorenz: Yep. That's the nice thing being about being an entrepreneur is when you can start seeing those kind of things.

You're flexible enough that you can go, this was a great idea at the time, but now that I'm in it and I'm doing it, I don't really like the way it's working out, so let's stop and, and, and look at where the boat really is supposed to be going. And that goes back to the why's and all of that. So, yeah. Yes,

Leighann Lovely: yes.

I've, I've been there. I've, I've absolutely been there.

Laura Lorenz: You all have, right? There's no doubt. You, you have this brilliant idea of how you're gonna sell your business, right? And sell, sell who you are in your business and why people should work with you. And what we forgot to do is actually go out there and do some audience research, even anything they want, right?

Leighann Lovely: Well. Yeah, I, I got to a point where, you know, [00:26:00] I was selling it all, but, you know, going, wait, wait, how am I executing on all of this? Mm-hmm. Like, yeah. So yeah.

Laura Lorenz: But that's also a good place to be in because if you're really getting the sales and you can't execute on all of it, that's the time to start looking for somebody to take the crap that you hate doing off of your plate.

Right. So time for a va, time to get a bookkeeper something. Right,

Leighann Lovely: right, right. And I, and I had, I actually just recently when I, I had a whole bunch of contractors. I just recently ended all of their assignment and it's, and reverted back to just me and I am so much more free.

Laura Lorenz: It's hard, you know, I, um, my first business that I built, I built with a partner.

It was a marketing consultancy when we started, right? So we were just guiding people on how to do their strategy and what kinds of things [00:27:00] they should be doing to sell their business or to sell whatever they have, not sell the business. Um, and now it was great except for we'd build these great plans for them and hand them over.

Nobody would do any of it. Right. Because we've got so many hats on that we can, right. And marketing seems like the last thing you care about, right? Mm-hmm. So as we looked in our business, it's, we said, it's time to pivot this business. We can still be doing all with strategic work with our clients. We need to also be able to do the work for our clients.

So we, after 10 years, we had 10 employees. You know, we had website builders and bloggers and the whole thing. So you can grow a business and pivot. And we, we, we used to, I laughed 'cause we said every six months we'd blow the business up and try something different. So it, it's, there's a lot of that stuff.

And, and when it. That brings me back, however, to the point that I said in the beginning is it's so much easier when you have [00:28:00] a mentor or a coach or a consultant that's looking at your business and helping you see that it's time to pivot. Right.

Leighann Lovely: And, and to your point, um, going back to you are so close to your own business.

Whether you are a single solopreneur or you are a 20 person, 50 person company, and you are still privately owned

Laura Lorenz: mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: You're so close to it that you often cannot see the holes. You know,

Laura Lorenz: I, go ahead. Sorry. And, and I was

Leighann Lovely: gonna say that having, having somebody from the outside come in and do that true analysis, not only just, not only of you, of why you're, why are you doing this?

Mm-hmm. Why are you, you know, why do you want to continue to go [00:29:00] down this path? Are you happy? Um, how's it working for you? Right. How's it working for? Right. Um, but to, to do, you know, really have somebody, and then some, have somebody really do an assessment and look under the hood of your business. Mm-hmm.

You know, how is it going? Are you, are you getting out of it what you wanted? To get out of it. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that people are finally starting to understand that, 'cause we've had what since I've been in, in the professional industry, and I'm not gonna tell you how long 'cause that dates me.

Laura Lorenz: I, I trust I've been in longer.

But anyway,

Leighann Lovely: no, I, and I, I, what I've, you know, my 20 years, um, 20 plus years now, um. You know, when I started we didn't have coaches, we didn't have advisors, we didn't have, you know, consultants who were there to assist you along the path. Mm-hmm. You know? And over the last 10 years, has it been 10 [00:30:00] now?

Laura Lorenz: Yes, it has.

It's been about, yeah. Time flies.

Leighann Lovely: It's, so over the last 10 years we've had the rise of, you know, the coaches, we've had the rise of the advisors who. You are experienced. They come from, you know, the world of either entrepreneurship or they come from working at very large corporations where they've been in the thick of it, they've seen the errors of other businesses, um, they've seen the success of other businesses and, and just understand to anybody who's listening to this.

These are things that you need to make sure that when you're hiring an advisor or a coach, you're vetting them. Because unfortunately, in today's world, a lot of people are popping up saying that they are advisors or coaches.

Laura Lorenz: Yeah. You know, I have to laugh when I look at a 20-year-old who's saying I'm a life coach, I'm.

How can you be a life [00:31:00] coach? You haven't lived even a third of your life. You're a baby. Exactly. Anyways, I

Leighann Lovely: digress on that. Um, no, no. And I agree you, you may that life coach, that 20-year-old. Could maybe be, or that 25-year-old could maybe be a life coach to those who are younger.

Laura Lorenz: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: But don't tell me that you're gonna come and be a life coach to my 44-year-old, you know, to the, to me who's 44.

I've got over 20 years on you.

Laura Lorenz: Yep.

Leighann Lovely: Yep. I,

Laura Lorenz: that's, I I think, I always tell people, look, look for the gray haired people that are offering you advice. 'cause they've been there, they've done that. They've seen it. I mean, I, this is my third business, so I've definitely seen, seen that and I've been helping businesses for.

I got you 35 or 30 plus. Yeah. But Laura,

Leighann Lovely: you, but you don't understand my, you know, you don't understand me. You don't talk like me. I'm 20. I want [00:32:00] somebody who's, you know, gonna, it's like, well, yeah, but who's gonna, you know, who's gonna help you in the, the political realm that exists right now in the corporate world.

Mm-hmm. Not a 25-year-old. No. Mm-hmm. So, and so when I'm, when I. You know, to the audience, make sure that you're vetting the person. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Highly recommend that. Right?

Laura Lorenz: And, and you, you have to go with somebody that you feel good. Working with, because that person is going to tell you a lot of things about you that you're not gonna like to hear.

Right. Right. And so, and, and you're

Leighann Lovely: gonna pay them for it.

Laura Lorenz: They're going, they're gonna

No, but, but it's the truth. And that goes back to what you were saying about we're so tunneled. My best analogy there is you're in a jar and you can't read the outside label. Right. Right. You just, you can't. Right. Yourself [00:33:00] absolute. Because you're mature.

Leighann Lovely: And, and I, and speaking from, you know, being a, a sales consultant, I've had some of the most brilliant people in the world, you know, come to me with products and say, I just can't, like, this is a really good product.

I just can't seem to get people to understand. What it is, and, and they won't buy. And I'm like, okay, let's, let's talk about this and then gimme your 32nd pitch. Gimme your, you know, present a proposal to me. And I go, oh, I know why. And they're like, well, what do you mean? And I'm like, you're explaining this as if I'm already, as if I already know who you are and what you do.

Right? And they're like, well, what do you mean? And I'm like, you are so close to it that you assume that people know. This piece, this piece, and this piece. I'm like, you're completely breezing over the, you know, the base of what this is. And then they go, oh. And it's like, again, [00:34:00] you're so close to it because you built it right.

Laura Lorenz: And they're like, yeah. I find so many pe If you're on LinkedIn enough, you're getting pitched every day by people. Right. And, and I have to laugh. I, I will actually connect with people whose sales pitches I think are good, even if I don't intend to buy from them. Right. Because I, they get it, you know? Yep.

These other people, they sell on features, they sell on benefits. They don't understand why I need to have them, why my life will be so much better if I just. By the widget or the service. Right. So what are you in it for? I mean, you have to understand people are looking for what's the value? What's in it for me?

Right. Not how great the product is because it has

Leighann Lovely: this be and this whistle, right? I, I have people who sell me on. You know, Hey, we can schedule 10 appointments [00:35:00] for you a month and get you, and I'm like, that's what I do.

Laura Lorenz: No. I'm like, hello? Did you not notice that this is what I do. We used to laugh about that 'cause I, we'd have people, when I had my marketing agency pick up the phone and say, you know, I've been looking at your website and I, I think that I can help you.

I'm like. We build websites. Right, right.

Leighann Lovely: Oh, I've had people say, no, I've, I've had people, I've actually had people go, you know, that your website, you know, could really use some help. And I'm like, oh, so you're gonna start by insulting me. Yeah. Before you try to,

Laura Lorenz: yeah. And I, I even love it, you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, the big thing was to sell and market on the pains that people have.

Right. And again, it starts, you're, then you're starting out. The person's upset and they're hurting. You gotta start with painting a picture of this is the world that could, is what it could be like if you did X, Y, Z. Right? Not [00:36:00] I can solve your pain,

Leighann Lovely: right? That, that's, that's ultimately the, the final closing of here's how we're gonna solve the pain points that you have, but you start on relationship.

Yep. Yep. Let's get to know each other and figure out, and then through that discovery, you're, you're uncovering what pains. Mm-hmm. And then through that you're figuring out, okay, so here's how I might be able to solve some of these pain points and problems if you are the right solution. Because I am, I am so over that everybody thinks that their solution is the perfect.

Solution for everybody.

Laura Lorenz: Oh yeah. It, it's not, what I do is not perfect for everyone. Right. And what I do is not the same as what another mentor would do either. 'cause we all just come from our own place of. Of gift. But anyways, um, and yeah, we, I'm sure we could go on for [00:37:00] hours about silly Yeah. Um, silly things that salespeople have done.

Leighann Lovely: Oh, I know. I could, I, I, absolutely. Mm-hmm. I, I've got stories that would last forever. But Laura, before we wrap up, I wanna give you your, your, um, shameless 32nd pitch.

Laura Lorenz: Hooray. I would love to help build your roadmap out there in podcast land. Um, I would be very happy to give you an hour of my time for complimentary free whatever we're saying these days that that works.

Um, but to sit and listen to what you've tried and where, where you are and where you wanna go, and maybe give you some really great tips on how to help with that. And. You know, and I won't sell to you if at the end of the call you go, thanks for your tips. See you later. That's good. So awesome. That's me.

Leighann Lovely: Yep. And you can reach, um, or you can find Laura at her website at top floor mentoring, uh, dot com or on LinkedIn. [00:38:00] Um, those two, um, places. And would you like to provide your email? Sure it's Laura at Top

Laura Lorenz: Floor Mentoring.

Leighann Lovely: Excellent. So you can reach out to Laura. Um, the, those links will be, or those different avenues to reaching out to her will be listed on the show notes.

You can find those on the show notes there. But Laura, I really appreciate this conversation. It's been amazing.

Laura Lorenz: Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. Thank you so much, Lee, and I appreciate it. Yes.

AccelerateGrowth45: This podcast is presented by Accelerate Growth 45, your one stop shop for business growth. Stop running your business like an operator, delaying wealth creation and sacrificing your time. Instead, focus on building a valuable business asset, creating lasting wealth and reclaiming the time you deserve.

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Robb Conlon: Thanks for [00:39:00] joining us for Love Your Sales. For More, connect with Leanne on LinkedIn and be sure to subscribe to the show and leave us a rating in review. We'd love to hear what you think, looking for a way to take your sales process to the next level. Visit [email protected] to find out more about how Leanne can take your organization to new Revenue Heights.

And be sure to join us next time for more great ways to love your customers so they love your [00:40:00] sales.

In this engaging podcast episode, 'Love Your Sales,' hosted by Leighann, Gretchen Mall, CEO and founder of The Lucky Agency, shares invaluable insights on overcoming sales challenges. The episode dives into common sales nightmares such as missed opportunities and the fear of silent rejections during critical moments. Gretchen shares her journey from a sales consultant to leading a successful B2B lead generation firm that leverages AI to book meetings and build sales pipelines. The conversation highlights the importance of identifying ideal clients, persistence in follow-ups, and the inefficiency of broad or overly specific client targeting. They also discuss nurturing client relationships without being overly salesy and the significance of being authentic and helpful in networking contexts. The episode concludes with Gretchen detailing her company's specialized approach to enhancing their clients' sales processes through technology and data-driven strategies.

Contact Gretch –

Website - https://theluckyagency.com/

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/gretchenmall/

Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 and the AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast – www.accelerategrowth45.com  

Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/

The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489

Ready to grow your business? Schedule a call with us today  - https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/discoverysalesleighann

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#sales #businessdevelopment #entrepreneur #entrepreneurship #selling #relashionships #customerexperience #podcast #loveyoursales #lastingrelashionships #salescareers #salesmanager #salesdevelopment #traininganddevelopment #leadershipdevelopment #salespodcast #salestraining

Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am so thrilled that today I am joined by Gretchen Mall. Gretchen is the CEO and founder of the Lucky Agency, a Tampa based B2B lead generation powerhouse that helped clients book over 7,000 meetings and create Wow. A hundred.

Plus million in pipeline. Yes, she's keeping score. I love that. With over 20 years of [00:02:00] turning, maybe later into Let's talk now, Gretchen has mastered the art of connecting the right people at the right time. Through her innovative AI powered prospecting magic, she believes you make your own luck in the business and her track record of

Transforming company's sales process proves she's got the formula down to a science. Gretchen, I am so excited to have this conversation 'cause everybody knows that I love to talk sales. So tell us, you know, anything that I did not cover.

Gretchen Mall: Well, thank you for having me.

Um, you know, I got my start doing this. I don't know. You said 20 years? Well, that really needs to be seen, but, you know, uh, quite a few years ago. Wow. Uh, you know, I was actually doing some sales consulting and, um, got put into a, hired into a company that was a recruiting firm and they were looking for, um.

Companies, their clients, excuse me. They were [00:03:00] looking for attorneys who had clerked at Supreme Court who had, um, you know, tier one school experience who had gotten certain grades and big, really specific criteria, and they had a way to find 'em. And I put on my, you know, little sales hat and I thought, could we use this to find buyers and have been working in marketing ever since.

Leighann Lovely: Very interesting. So you saw. The tools that a company was using to, uh, to find a very specific criteria in the hiring process. Mm-hmm. And you flipped that into how do we find clients?

Gretchen Mall: Yeah. Because I felt like, um. My experience into small and medium businesses. Up until that point, I had mostly been enterprise and had run sales teams there.

But, um, really seeing that insight. You know, a lot of times people will talk to anybody who is there, right? Like any human that breathes could [00:04:00] be a potential prospect, um, which is not effective. From a sales or marketing process. And so, um, when you start really getting into who is your ideal client, have you written down, you know, not just the the demographics, but like the psychographics and the infographics about people, you know, how are they hanging out?

Where are they, you know, consuming their information? Um, what social media channels are they on? What jobs do they have? What companies do they work for? Um, then you can start meeting people where they are and it becomes a much easier conversation 'cause you already know a lot about 'em.

Leighann Lovely: Wow. Okay. So I'm, I'm wildly interested in this tool on, on how that works, but let's, let's, let's, let's back up a little bit.

So let's talk about your, your business and how long, first, how long have you been doing your business or running your company? Um,

Gretchen Mall: yeah, we're about 15 months old. 15 months. So we're pretty new. Okay. Yeah, I had an exit in 2021, so this is not my first rodeo.

Leighann Lovely: Okay. [00:05:00] So. You've helped with 7,000. I read 7,000.

That is, we said 7,000

Gretchen Mall: meeting. Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: That is insane. Like that. That's, that's awesome. Like I I And when you have those and Yeah. I'd be counting to, and, and here's like my first year in sales, I still boast. Like, in my real corporate sales job, I was bonused on the amount of, of cold calls that I made. My boss walked up to me and, and I didn't know that it was a big deal because nobody told me people don't like to make cold calls.

They just were like, okay, here's how you become a successful salesperson. And I thought, okay, I can do that. Um, and I just grinded through sitting at my desk calling and calling and calling and calling and calling and calling and figuring out, and, and everybody hated me. They were like, because I would ask like, how do you overcome this objective?

How do you overcome when they say this? And all the other salespeople would be like, oh my [00:06:00] God, here she goes again. But the owner, you know, my who I, I reported to the owner and, and the second in command was like, God love her. Like, and so he walked up to me and he's like, we don't bonus first years at this company, but you're an exception.

He's like, you made. Thousand phone calls. Wow. This year. Cold calls. And I was like, you track that? And well, of course we track it and it's like, oh, okay. And he's like, so I'm, I'm giving you, I'm bonusing you for every single call that you made because you out called every single other person at this company by a landslide.

And it was like, oh. And that's why I was so, didn't know. But I didn't even know, like I didn't even realize that nobody else was doing this. And everybody else was going, how are you? How are you getting all these appointments? [00:07:00] How are you? And this company was big on cross-selling because we sold all of the different, you know, time clocks, payroll, software benefit, all of that.

Right? Um, and so everybody was like, can you, will you take me on your appointments? And I'm like, sure. Because I was scheduling appointments. It was like they were waiting for the appointment setters to schedule theirs.

Gretchen Mall: Oh. Instead of them going out and getting them on their own. Yeah. Isn't that interesting?

Like we work with a bunch of different companies and like that's two different philosophies, right? Like some people expect their sales reps to go out and set their own appointments and maybe they have an SDR team or like a sales development team or a business development team. Maybe they don't. Um. I would say by and large, we get brought in when that strategy fails because the sales reps don't wanna make cold calls or, you know, they'll put a, a post out or like, I was just talking about this the other day with one of our clients where, um, they had sent over a, [00:08:00] a meeting like, Hey, this person's really hot.

They had been doing some tracking. And um, we set the meeting as a colleague, we set the meeting for our clients. They just tell the clients, Hey. Leighann's ready for a phone call. You should call her. They called twice, didn't get a return call, and didn't get to talk to anybody, and the sales rep disqualified them like, like final disposition.

They're not qualified. You didn't even have a conversation,

Leighann Lovely: right?

Gretchen Mall: They're, they're never gonna call you back like, that's okay. You need to get in front of them. Send an email, like send a carrier pigeon something.

Leighann Lovely: And that's the mentality. And I've had that, I've had that too, where I've had, you know, I've sent over a lead, like, here's a great lead, this person's interested.

And then, then the client is like, well, I can't get ahold of 'em. So, and then they go ahead and dis and it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Just because they didn't pick up the phone, one or two, or maybe even three times that you called, doesn't mean they're not interested. People don't answer [00:09:00] their phones anymore.

You like the rarity that they do, you have to, you, you've gotta be ready. Mm-hmm. Not to, not to sell them, but you've gotta be ready to have that conversation, to talk about them and then to schedule the next step. Because if you don't schedule it, you ain't gonna get it. It doesn't happen.

Gretchen Mall: Absolutely. Well, there was a symposium that was at MIT.

Last week or two weeks ago, um, and the number they released was 7.2. Like, you've gotta call somebody 7.2 times before you can actually have a final disposition. Um, we don't just do cold calling because I think that it's, you have to run, like some people you're gonna get on email, some people are gonna get on text messaging, some like, everybody kind of has a different channel.

But, um, seven is the minimum. We've set a lot of meetings lately that are in the thirties,

Leighann Lovely: right. And that's you. And, and that's, my clients will come to me and they say, okay, when are you gonna start having success? And they're like, you know, is it gonna be like week one, week two? And I'm like, week one and week two are going to be [00:10:00] the first, you know, or maybe second touch points of this.

And I'm like, we're looking at average nowadays of seven to like 12. Touch points. So if, maybe if I have a list of 10 and I'm calling them like every hour, right. It's like, but, and I always try to remind them it's this, is this, what you do today is going to affect you in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days depending on your business.

You know, if you're a enterprise sale type business, this couldn't, this may not affect you until next year. Mm-hmm. Like then, then we're talking like schmoozing, long-term building, you know, getting through the layers of who the decision maker is and, and, and that's when people go, wait, so I'm gonna be paying you money for not getting a sale until [00:11:00] six months from now, potentially.

And it's like,

Gretchen Mall: yeah,

Leighann Lovely: yeah. But yeah.

Gretchen Mall: We have to take into account like the, the sales cycle, right? So like, let's say you have a 90 day sales cycle, we have some clients that have a year long sales cycle, depending on what you're selling. You know, like if you're selling into. HR benefits for instance, right?

Like those companies are only making those decisions one time a year. And then you get what you get during open enrollment. And so, you know, what are you doing the other half of the year or the other part of the year, um, to stay top of mind if you have a sales cycle like that, for instance. Um, we talk a lot about, um, like the 5% rule.

So like at any given time, 5% of the people are in market. And so 20% over the course of a year, that's it. So how are you talk to the other 80% when you know they're not necessarily in market, but they will be at some point. And if you wait until you know, they've put out an an RFQ or you know, they've, you know, something [00:12:00] is burning down and they have an urgent need, they're probably gonna go to who they already know and they're not opening something brand new.

Leighann Lovely: Right, and, and that is the number one mistake that I've seen so many salespeople make is that they're like, oh, they're not interested. And then that that lead becomes completely dormant and they never reach out again. And I'm like, wait a second. Did they say that they will never, ever buy from you and that this product is something that they like?

Or did they say, yeah, we're not, we're not looking for that right now, or, we don't need that right now, or we don't, what did they actually say? And they're like, oh, well, they just said, Hey, I'm, we're not interested in this. You know, we're not interested right now. Okay. So how do you continue to stay top of mind?

Because. You know, especially if you're one of those services that businesses need all the time, you know, an accounting firm or training and development, or there's a ton of services out there that, yeah, I don't [00:13:00] need right now. Gretchen, I don't, I don't really need an accountant right now. Well, what happens if my accountant gets hit by a bus?

Gretchen Mall: Right? Or like, you get that IRS letter or like, you know, you find out you didn't pay your quarterly taxes and you thought you did. Like, then it becomes very urgent and you're not, you're not wandering around going, Hmm, who sent me the stuff? You start asking immediately, who do you know? Who can I call right now?

Right. For if they've done their job correctly, you already know who the next person on the list is, and you go, yeah, I'm gonna call Ian.

Leighann Lovely: Right, exactly. And so many salespeople are just like, yeah, I don't have time. Fine. Put 'em on a. Put 'em on a list for a newsletter. If your company sends out a newsletter, make sure that they go on that newsletter list.

If you're, and again, I'm speaking if your company, now, if you personally do that, put 'em on your newsletter list. They get a communication once a month. If they truly don't want to communi or have communication from you, they'll unsubscribe. And that's fine. At that point, you know, you [00:14:00] now know the answer.

You know, and, and I, I go back to the first episode of Love Your Sales Ever, um, that I ever did. Um, and we talked about, you know, buying signs. The greatest thing in the world is yes. The second is a no. The worst thing in the world is somebody who's like, huh, I don't know. Maybe call me next month. No, I don't wanna call you next month.

Like, if you're not interested right now, that's absolutely fine. I can put you on an email list so that you have my contact information, and when you know when you're ready, you're, you can reach out, I'll call you in a year from now, or six months from now to keep it warm so that when your accountant does.

Or it's a, you know, whoever, sorry, accountants, whoever, um, you know, gets hit by the proverbial boss or screws up or whatever, and you're back in market. I'm the person you're gonna think about. And that's where I think the salespeople lose [00:15:00] companies in general. I could really, really quickly wean down a list of a hundred to two people if that was my mentality.

Gretchen Mall: Well, and that's it. Like, you know, there's, um, all of this data that's coming out about, you know, especially like a B2B sales. So like, let's say you're selling into another business or you're consulting or you're fractional or something. Um, people want that process to feel more like a consumer brand.

Think of like if you're buying an Apple computer or a new iPhone or something. Because of how that's happened, 70% of the process of like the sales process of where they're doing their due diligence and they're trying to figure out like, can you do my scope of work? Can you handle the problem that I have that's done before they ever talk to a salesperson?

So like, how do you, how do you keep that information going and you're like, you know, either consciously or subliminally getting in front of them, you know, with a newsletter with some good news. Like, [00:16:00] good news goes really far. That's how we, we phrase all of it, but you know, it doesn't always have to be, um, really salesy.

And in fact, I think there's like an argument to be made that when you're doing these kind of long-term nurture sequences, hey. We had a client that got in front of Amazon the other day, wouldn't you love to do that? Hey, we, you know, had a client that, you know, gave us a, a hit list of their 10 dream clients.

We got a meetings with two of 'em. Amazing, right? Like there's no calls to action to any of that, but it is this kind of subtle, like, look at how we're, you know, being in the marketplace. Look at how we're interacting with our clients and if something has happened to them, they're gonna reach back out however you got to them and go, Hey, what about me?

Leighann Lovely: Mm-hmm. Right. And that's it. If that long term nurture shouldn't be a constant sale, it should be giving. It should be to your point, is that if, if I'm constantly being in this drive, Gretchen, I know that you get these all the time. When the people who sometimes they get creepy nowadays with these [00:17:00] inboxes I messages of, oh, I feel like you're ghosting me.

Did you not get this last email? And it's like, yeah, I've gotten all 30 of your emails of you trying to sell me something without even knowing if I need your product. It's like, stop emailing

Gretchen Mall: me. Oh, my favorite is like. Your website's really terrible. I can help you with that. Or your graphics are really terrible and they're just like insulting you right out of the gate, right?

Like, I don't know if that works for anyone, but I'm always like, don't lead with a, I'm terrible. Right? It's like saying, hi, you're fat. Would you like to lose some weight? Like, girl, you don't say that to people, even if they are.

Leighann Lovely: Hmm. Exactly. No, no. And I, and that's right. And the other, the LinkedIn messages that I get, why are you ghosting me?

I, I got one that says I feel like I'm been stood up for the prom. I'm like, I've never messaged you. I don't know. Did you, did you stalk a girl and then think that you were gonna go to prom with her and then she [00:18:00] didn't show up? Because like, it's a very specific projection, right? Right. Like they should be.

When you give information to people, when you're offering something before you're ever asking for anything in return, you position yourselves as one subject matter experts. If you're giving great information and they're going to remember that you're, you very well could suck them into actually opening your emails in the future.

And becoming a memorable, positive, memorable. And people nowadays think, well, if they remember me at all, that'll be great. No, not when they're looking to buy from you. And you are not the Amazon or the Apple or the Nike of the world.

Gretchen Mall: Yeah, I mean I just, you know, there's a, a seat for everybody for sure. Um.

[00:19:00] Especially in a cold marketplace, right? Like I think that there's like two primary ways that people build business, right? Like a referral word of mouth. You're going out, you're going to your local networking groups, you join some online ones or whatever, and you're kind of meeting people and they're passing you around in like a virtual room, right?

Meeting people. The other thing is like, you go out and you have a really specific, um, use case, right? Like you're. Some sort of a, a company selling something really specific. Um, you know who your people are. Mm-hmm. You, you know, who needs this, you know, SaaS tool, right? Like we've, we've gone through, you figure out who those buyers are.

Um, you can, you can be the authority there and, and give them a whole lot of benefits on using it. And how's it gonna save you time and energy. At some point they might be in market, but they may not, if you don't take the time to get to know them. Right. Like you have to build that like know and trust factor that I'm sure that, you know, everybody here is familiar with, but if you come off even a little creepy, they're probably going to [00:20:00] not go to the prom with you.

Right,

Leighann Lovely: right. No kidding. No kidding. No, and that's, and, and approachable. Creepy versus, versus approachable. I think that all of us, any anybody listening who's ever been in a networking meeting, there has been, and, and, and I'm not gonna say creepy, um, let me take that back, but there has been, especially early on when networking was, was newer and people hadn't really figured out, like got, and I've been around since, you know, since networking was newer.

This, I'm dating myself, but. There was a time where you'd walk into the room and you'd be like, oh, okay. We gotta stay away from that person, and that one, and that one, because you knew that they were going to immediately walk up to you and just try to sell you. Mm-hmm. And it's like, mm-hmm. What are you, what are you doing?

And again, don't get me there. I'm sure that there was a time, you [00:21:00] know, I was taught to network wrong. My boss back in the day when I was at a company was, go in there and make sure that you come back with at least four appointments and that that somebody who wants to buy. And it was like, and I hated networking.

It was like I'd stand there and I'd be like, okay, who am I gonna talk to? Who's gonna buy from me? Who's gonna buy from me? That's not the way that you approach the world anymore. People don't want to be sold to That doesn't mean that they don't want to buy from you.

Gretchen Mall: Oh yeah. Everybody loves to buy. They don't wanna be sold to.

And so like, you have to be careful with that attitude. It's interesting. Um, have you found a way that works? Networking?

Leighann Lovely: Oh yeah. I am my crazy self. I go in, I'm a hundred percent authentic. Um, and when it comes to networking, I just, I just go in and have conversations with people. I go in and I, I don't even talk about my product sometimes.

I just go in and I get to know people. I talk to them about their product, and then they're [00:22:00] like, often they'll go, uh, we didn't even get to talk about what you do. Mm-hmm. And it's like, oh yeah, well, we should do a one-on-one. And then it goes from there because. When this goes back to Dale Carnegie mm-hmm.

If you open the door for people to talk about themselves, you give them a platform or an, you know, an audience, you the audience to talk about themselves and what they need, what they want, what they do, they will just keep talking sometimes to the point where you're like. Oh, wow. Yeah, I understand that problem too.

Tell me more about the problems you're having. Um, sometimes to the point where you're like, whoa, okay, that is way more information than I wanted. But it, it's true when you open the door for people to feel comfortable enough to just talk with you openly and honestly, they [00:23:00] walk away from that conversation feeling like you, and they are best friends.

Gretchen Mall: I think listening is really key and I always try to be a connector. Like, like you said, a lot of people will get in there and they'll ask like, Hey, what can you do? But I was just, um, in a conversation yesterday, weirdly enough, I met a, a guy who's a wealth advisor who specializes in people who have moved to the US from Canada.

'cause they have all these like currency problems. It's very specific, right? Like you have a 401k, that's a Canadian dollars. You have to bring it to the us. You don't unless you how to do it. And I was like, that's really weird. I don't know anybody. In that problem, but like. School well just happened like later in that afternoon, I met another lady who has like a luxury relocation business and she helps people like move the house, like you know, entertainment people, like sports athletes and that kind of thing.

And I was like, I know who you should meet because you also have this like really weird and specific problem, right? So you get to be the connector. Like that's what you wanna do with your prospects, right? Is like you [00:24:00] look at this, eh, it seems like you have a weird one-off problem. I may have this other kind of weird one-off solution, and then you can put it together, whether that's your products and services or somebody else that you know, or somebody else you met at a networking event.

But that's building credibility.

Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. And that is a constant, you know, when you are talking with somebody and they talk about, you know, all of these different things that are going on. That's it. And here's the weirdest thing is that when that happens for me, it's usually when I'm sitting watching TV or I'm sitting in, all of a sudden somebody says something and I'm like, oh, I need to introduce so and so to so and so because this.

And my husband looks at me and goes, why did you think of that? And I'm like, oh, because the person on TV said this. And that reminded me of that. And this reminded, and my husband's like, you're strange. And I'm like, I'm a salesperson and I just, my brain works this way. I don't know why. But you're right.

It's um. Making those connections. It's fun. It's fun making those in those connections, those introductions, hearing [00:25:00] how those introductions then bloom into potential business for others down the road. And the great thing is, is that when I first started doing that, I'm like, why am I spending so much time and effort connecting other people?

I mean, I thought about that for a moment, which the benefit of that. Came back 20 fold, a hundred fold years later, as people remembered me for that, remember? Oh yeah, if

Gretchen Mall: you help enough people get what they want, then you know, the world has no choice but to give you what you want.

Leighann Lovely: Right? And it was, it's, it's amazing how that all of the sudden comes back to you just for being a, leading with your heart, being a servant, you know, being a servant to others.

Giving to others. And don't get me wrong, people, you know, don't give away everything to your [00:26:00] detriment. But it's important as a salesperson, as a human, I think really is that it's not always about you is that if we, as you know, people, if we're thinking in the bigger picture, it does come back.

Gretchen Mall: Absolutely.

Absolutely. I totally think that. And the more like positivity you can put out there, um, I just think like the better off you are as a human. Um, but as far as like what you're putting out there, I think it's important to kind of delineate when you're creating content, when you're in these networking groups, when you're having one-on-ones with people.

Like you can like tell the, what, what are we doing? I'll tell you all of what we're gonna do, but you sell the how. And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna build a cold list and we're gonna, you know, warm them up and get them all excited. We're gonna put 'em in a and a, you know, get to know you, awareness funnel.

Then we're gonna put 'em in a nurture funnel, and then we're gonna book a meeting with them. How we're gonna do all that. [00:27:00] Well, you're gonna have to get, you know, get in the boat with me and we'll find out.

Leighann Lovely: Right. Interesting. And so is that kind of how your process, when you engage a client, um, that's kind of how your process works with your clients?

Gretchen Mall: I think initially we, we spend a fair amount of time really working through who your ideal client profile is, and that might sound like business 1 0 1, but I see so many people get it wrong and or they, you know, they get so specific, like, we only want. You know the guys who are middle management, who are in the middle of America, who, you know, have 2.2 kids and a dog named Rover.

And like you just get so specific, you priced yourself out. Um, or the opposite where it's like any human that fogs a mirror that has money, I will take it. And it's, when you're doing either of those things, you're really talking to nobody.

Leighann Lovely: Right. So you and I, I, I find the same. Yeah. I work with a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of smaller [00:28:00] businesses who they, they just don't know what they don't know.

And they will sit down and go, well, here's my ideal client. And I'm like, okay, why are they your ideal client? And they're like, well, oh, well, because, because that's the, that's, and it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. So explain how your product or your, you know, is going to solve a problem for that person.

Well, and then they can't answer that. And you're like, okay, we need to take a step back and figure out why you're choosing this demographic, why you're, you know, and, and a lot of entrepreneurs. And that evolves. As you know, over time it can evolve over time, but a lot of entrepreneurs starting out don't know.

They really just don't know who their ideal client is. Mm-hmm. I've been in business, what, two, two and a half years, and it took me a really long time to figure out who [00:29:00] my. Ideal client, and still to this day, people ask me, who's your ideal client? And I'm like, well, it's easier for me to tell me, tell you the industries that I don't work with.

Gretchen Mall: Well, and I think like, you know, people make these decisions, especially like early on the business. Like you make this business plan, right? And like this, we're gonna go after this is what we're gonna sell it for. This is what we're gonna do. And like, I dunno if you've ever made any plans, but like oftentimes they don't go exactly like you think it's gonna happen.

And so, um, you know, we would encourage all of our clients, anybody, like all of you guys listening, like revisit your ideal client profile at least every six months. Like maybe your capabilities have changed, maybe how you deliver for clients has changed. Either good or bad, right? Like you've moved upstream a little bit, you've moved downstream a little bit.

Like those things are are not static. And that's good because like I think that you'll find as you get into the marketplace, you know you'll have that one, hopefully you'll have that experience where you sold something to somebody for what you [00:30:00] thought was a lot of money and they turned around and used it and made.

Boatloads of money and you go, Hmm, maybe I should have charged a little more. Right? Like, I remember really distinctly when I was first getting started, I sold a, uh, a package for a thousand dollars and that person literally turned around and made a hundred thousand dollars with it the next month. And I went, Hmm, probably should have charged a little more.

Leighann Lovely: Right? And we, and, and we all make those early mistakes. I, I remember sitting, uh, you know, at a, at lunch with somebody and, and helping them out with, you know, a, a problem they were having. And at the end of it she goes, you know, you should be charging for this. And I went, I, I do, I just happened to go out to lunch with you and, and ended up give, basically giving you away my, you know, giving my services away.

We've

Gretchen Mall: all done that, you know, and it's, um. You know, we always wanna help people, like, at least me, like I always wanna be a helper. I feel like it's, I've heard of innate, uh, as maybe a woman or just maybe who I am. Um, but at the [00:31:00] same time, you really have to be mindful of what we're doing and, um, you know, you deserve to be paid.

Your, your worth and, and what you have to offer. Your experience, your point of view, it's all worth money,

Leighann Lovely: right. Yeah. Well, hey, we are coming to time. This has been an awesome conversation. So what I wanna do right now, Gretchen, is offer you your 32nd shameless pitch.

Gretchen Mall: So here at the Lucky Agency, we really help you.

I identify your ideal clients, um, you know, we believe in like knowing your whole list. And so who are the people that could, you know, purchase from you? Let's get them all excited. We have a lot of technology that we've built as far as like monitoring that, having some intent data, um, you know, kind of, there's a, there's a secret sauce that goes into it and at the end we book appointments.

On your calendar. Um, and then we'll send you a survey like did they show, did they not show? How did you rate the meeting? And we use that to evaluate your ideal client profile and get the data better. And, um, [00:32:00] it's a true revenue engine. Um, we are CRM agnostic, uh, you know, so it doesn't matter where you are, where you're starting, we'll get you in front of people that you wanna be in front of.

Leighann Lovely: Amazing. Again, thank you so much for joining me today. Yeah, thanks for having me.

In this episode of Love Your Sales, host Leighann speaks with Tyler Marcus, CEO of Gradmor, about leveraging AI and data analytics to improve workforce productivity and business outcomes. Tyler explains how collecting and analyzing workforce data can solve issues like inefficiencies in manufacturing and retaining talent. They dive into the importance of identifying specific qualities in sales hires using behavioral assessments, and how understanding these traits can enhance sales team performance. They discuss the evolving role of HR from an administrative function to a strategic business driver, emphasizing the impact of employee engagement on business success.

Contact Tyler –

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylermarcus/

Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 and the AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast – www.accelerategrowth45.com 

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Ready to grow your business? Schedule a call with us today  - https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/discoverysalesleighann

 Channel Subscribe link - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-O7W9DzaRv4waodQKCprIg?sub_confirmation=1

Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. Today I am joined by Tyler Marcus. He is the CEO of . Grad Moore, a workforce , intelligence company. Um, I am so thrilled to have you join me today. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what your company, your organization does?

Tyler Marcus: Sure. Well lean, thank you for having me on, on your podcast. Excited to chat about anything business related, sales related. Uh, just give deep insight about what we do. So. My business [00:02:00] Grad Moore, uh, me and my co-founder started the business in 2017. Uh, we provide insight to help organizations improve worker productivity, efficiencies and performance, uh, to drive business outcomes.

Uh, so a lot of the work we do can be around some of it now with AI automation and the manufacturing floor. Uh, we work with retail companies on improving efficiencies to hire better, uh, and retain talent better. Uh, we also work with large scale enterprises to help them solve some of their biggest challenges around workforce, uh, issues.

Uh, that could be anything from executive turnover, um, you know, making sure that people, uh, performance metrics, understanding what's driving performance within an organization and what's not. Um, but most of our businesses around data, uh, workforce data, but more about using it to drive impact and how that leads to bottom line outcomes within a org.

Leighann Lovely: I love that. And, you know, data nowadays, um, organizations are finally realizing that they need to look within, [00:03:00] because honestly, I, I think we've all, all, all already known that. All of the answer, not all, but most of the answers already live within the data that we have. We just haven't figured out how to translate that data into raw information.

Tyler Marcus: Correct? Correct. And I think that's a common, I mean, that's a problem even at the enterprise level with the biggest companies. It's like, so the thing is it, as we get more tech companies use more technology, we use ai. Right. We take that data, what are we doing with the data that we're collecting? Right.

And I think is a lot of it's not being collected or, I mean, it's being collected, but it's not being, it's not being analyzed in a certain way. And a lot of times that gets overlooked, especially on the workforce side for some reason. I think we've made strides over the years in marketing. Uh, we've made, I was in sales even to a point, but, you know, but on the workforce side, especially.

There's a lot of data that doesn't get correlated that can drive different outcomes [00:04:00] within an org. So for example, if I'm working with a manufacturing company that has a distribution center, uh, with thousands and thousands of different products. They have workers that are grabbing these products and shipping them out into different places.

But if it takes a worker an hour to fill an order versus a half hour, that is business in itself because now you can get more efficient If you, if someone could fill 20 orders instead of 10 in a day, what does that mean to your business? And that's just looking at your workforce data. It's not, we're not talking about anything beyond that.

So I think yes, like we have gotten more data driven. How we think about things over time. I think AI now has made people think about data even more, and I've noticed that in my own business. But most of the time we have information to drive outcomes within our organization that we collect. We just don't use it at all.

And it's because either we don't have time, the resources or, or just, you know, just to know how of what to do with it. I think that's right.

Leighann Lovely: Often it's, we don't know how, we don't know how to use that information [00:05:00] appropriately. And it's people like you stepping in saying, well, here's how we can translate that appropriately because, and, and, and, and forgive me if I'm incorrect, but often in large manufacturing companies, or small manufacturing companies especially, but even at the enterprise level, you've got.

Somebody sitting at the top going, okay, give me all of this information. But then they're getting this information and going, okay, yeah, but what do I do with this information to turn around and then improve it on? The manufacturing floor, or even within my office, to take a process that right now takes two hours down to, I don't know, can we, can we squish this down into a half an hour?

And more and more we're seeing that we're especially repeatable processes and I in, even in my job with, especially in sales, I'll ask a sales person like. How often do you send the same email? How [00:06:00] often are you going onto an, you know, a word document, copying and pasting that email, putting it into an email, maybe tweaking a couple of things, and then sending that out and they're like, oh, I do that constantly and I'm like.

Wouldn't it be much easier if there was just a button that you could click that it would drop it in that they're like, yeah, that, that would be way easier. And I'm like, you know, you can do that.

Tyler Marcus: Yeah, no, totally. I mean, there's, and now with like ai, you can automate a lot of the things you do in an effective way.

I mean, we do it internally for ourself to make us more productive when I'm analyzing things or cleaning data. Uh, like just certain things that you can do to speed up your pro process and focus your energy in areas where. It's more useful where you, and also areas you wanna use. I don't think most people wanna be like editing their little emails for sales.

I think they'd rather be like, you know, doing the things they want, which is like meeting people in person, you know, to having those conversations. Thinking about strategic consulting, maybe consultative sales, not doing the operation side of [00:07:00] sales, which, right, which what we found even, 'cause I worked with a lot of sales teams with our workforce intelligence work.

Uh, for years, um, in terms of efficiencies and performance. And what we found is the best salespeople, the best salespeople in an organization, they spend the least time in operations on the cr. They spend most of their time on the phone or in a meeting. And really it's, it's, I've done analysis with this all the time, and, um, we've seen it where it's like, okay, your best performers, it's like, what?

How are they spending their time? A lot of it is how they spend their time. It's correct. It's, it's time and process and, and what they're doing on a day to day.

Leighann Lovely: And that's, and that's for everything. We, everybody needs to figure out how, how do you spend your time on revenue generating tasks? And we, and, and in sales you say that, I say that constantly, revenue generating tasks, sending an email is not a revenue generating task.

And, and now a lot of people, well, yeah, it is. I need to follow up with that person. I need to make sure. That's not a [00:08:00] revenue generating ta, having a conversation with a new person about X, Y, Z, that is revenue generating the mundane things. Now that translates into so much deeper than I even understand in what you do for so many other things that again, that you know what?

I don't know. I don't even know, so I can't even bring it up with you right now, which is why we're having this conversation, right. Because you being able to and, and what I wanna, what I found wildly interesting when we first talked is you, you had mentioned like the workforce development that you work with companies on, you know, the hiring processes and then actually even doing, going further with some of that, let's, I wanna shift here really quick to talk a little bit about how you help with that.

Tyler Marcus: On like the hiring side of things more. Yeah, yeah, sure. So that's [00:09:00] good. 'cause like Mo also related like maj, the majority of the things I started on the hiring success side was from sales. So. On my retail companies I work with, and even on the enterprise sales side, we actually help them find, hire people more successful, find representatives or reps that could be a better fit based on the historical data that's within a CRM system and within certain assessment tools that people use.

So let me give you a quick example. So one of my partners Predictive Index is a behavioral assessment tool.

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

Tyler Marcus: Right? A lot of time, 10 minute behavioral assessment, and you get a result and it's like, okay, you are, and you're extroverted, you're impatient, you're. Informal or formal, it has all these sort of designations, right?

Mm-hmm. So by understanding like people's personal behaviors, understanding what metrics. Within the CRM drive are PO positive behaviors and what are negative. You could then hire better salespeople for your org because the thing is, what happens is people have this misconception, [00:10:00] particularly in the enterprise lands, that all salespeople are.

The same. And the reason they're successful is the same. It's not, it actually is based on probably five to 10 different things that be, or go beyond that. So for example, you know, in enterprise sales, if you have a long sales cycle that's a year to two, like one to two years.

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

Tyler Marcus: And you're selling to Fortune five hundreds, that is a very different salesperson than the person who's hunting for business.

And it's a three month sales cycle in enterprise. Okay. It's a totally different, the person that succeeds generally at the three month versus one to two year, very different people. Right, because you have to be able to not only build a relationship, you have to maintain that relationship over time. And you have to be able to influence and make sort of like, um, drive, like influence and change for that with that person over a year or two, right?

Because, and how to work through layers of a, of an organization. So it's this understanding of like. How people and what works within org and what doesn't. Depends on everything from sales cycle company [00:11:00] culture, uh, sales process. Some companies have amazing training and sales process and tech stack, right?

They have like everything. Other companies are like, all right, like you're signed up. You have two weeks and now like, okay, we have like, we just have a CRM. Bye. But so like some people thrive in that stuff, right? Right. They're like, Hey, I don't, I'm great. I don't care if you have any tech stack. Others are very process driven.

They need a tech stack. So,

Speaker: mm-hmm.

Tyler Marcus: Just understanding these little things can actually drive sales for your org just by understanding how to identify what works best in your team. And the thing is, we get very caught up on these sort of like narratives of what makes a great salesperson. Okay. But like, oh, it's, it's your, you know, you have to be a hunter.

It's like, no, you have to be a hunter. In a certain role and in certain in industries, but in a large scale cybersecurity company that's selling to Amazon or selling to banks, being a hunter is actually bad because you're not hunting, you're actually building. Right. And it's different. Totally different,

Leighann Lovely: right?

Well, yeah. The hunter's gonna get bored. The

Tyler Marcus: they [00:12:00] leave, they leave, basically they get bored or, or they become toxic. Is is what I found out. So because. The hunter wants to hunt and, and push that thing forward. And what happens is if they don't get deals closed or they're not seeing that stuff, they start to get bored, like you said.

Or they can become actually toxic because they're getting frustrated. And when people get frustrated, they lash out or they don't, you know, they start becoming, you know, detrimental to the team. So it becomes a negative, right? So that, that's really like what your role is for what your business is, matters to what the people are you want in those roles.

Leighann Lovely: That is so, that is so cool. Like, uh, you know, the amount of time nowadays, the amount of time, I mean, I have chat GPT up on my, on my computer all the time. And I use also some other AI tools, you know, well, a ton of other AI tools throughout the day. But I mean, I'll ask chat a simple thing like, you know, I'll, I'll open up an account and then I'm like, [00:13:00] oh, I don't, I don't actually, this was the wrong thing.

And then I'm like, you know, hey, chat. How do I quickly close this account? Like, I mean, simple things like that make my life so much easier. But a tool that you just described. Because I, first of all, I've had my, my entire career prior to, you know, switching into really just focusing a hundred percent on sales was the study of humans, because I come from an HR background.

Speaker: Okay.

Leighann Lovely: And then hiring. Being able to hire the right person in the right role and making recommendations to hiring managers. So I started out just, you know, as a entry level, you know, hiring person or um, um, entry level, you know, staffing person. But as I built my way up in, I got into, you know, hiring for very, very specific roles for like GE sensing fan, and you know, these [00:14:00] very.

Niche roles because you, as you get more experienced, you get these and, and you have to fully understand, you know, what is the culture, what are they looking for, what are they not saying that they want? And you have, and early on you had to discover that through. Who are they passing on? Who are they, you know, choosing to interview, and then what is the feedback based on, oh, well this person had this really great experience, but what I didn't like was this, and it's like, okay, so now I'm starting to get a full picture.

Now, what you're describing now is from the historical data of the people who are successful, of the people who have not been successful, you can get a almost a 360 view of. Who is going to be predictively who's going to be successful in this role based on that historical data and [00:15:00] why they're going to be successful in that.

Tyler Marcus: Exactly. Yeah. Correct. And and it's, yeah. Is it gonna work every time? No, but even a 10, 20% shift, look, if, if you have a 300 person sales team, say it's a huge sales team, and you're, you hire 50 reps a year, 10, 20% shift can be millions of dollars because. Especially enterprise where the gaps can be, oh, our best reps produce 6 million in revenue and our, our worst ones produce 1.5 like.

So it doesn't have to be perfect, just needs to be better. It's again, it's an op, it's another way to optimize something, right? Correct. Not to mention the, again, driving revenue. Not just because like, oh, we're hiring people. It's like, no, like you're, you can drive revenue by hiring smarter in sales.

Leighann Lovely: Correct.

Well, smarter in every role. Think about the cost, what way Back when I, you know, was doing analysis on the cost to hire. You know, just one person to hire, one person to get them up and running and all of the training and everything else, only to have to turn around and fire them. [00:16:00] Way back in the day, that was like, the, the cost of that was like 30,000.

I can only imagine that nowadays that, that has shot up to probably 45 or 50,000 with, you know, all of the inflation of, you know, the cost of healthcare and Right. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um. So the, you know, the cost to hire, you know, the, the amount of people and something that we forget to, to add in sometimes to that is who's training that person and how much are they spending or losing in time of training somebody who's only going to fail and end up either opting out of that job on their own or getting fired because they were just a bad hire and not a bad person, just a bad hire for that role.

Tyler Marcus: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that's the thing. It's like, and that doesn't mean they're not good at sales either. Probably. I mean it to a point. Yeah. Some people maybe not, but there's a certain, like I'm very good at certain specific type of sales. I'm not, I'm not the best cold caller. It's not my thing. I don't, I don't, the mentality is not [00:17:00] hunter, that type of hunter.

I'm more of like a relationship building persuader. Mm-hmm. Right. So more about, I like to have coffee and meet people and talk and consultation. I'm not, I wanna pick up the phone a hundred times and make a hundred dials and try to, like, that's not my, I don't do, it doesn't work for me. Just doesn't. Right.

I, I don't get excited about it and it's not my thing. Like, and that's fine. That doesn't mean that I'm not good at, I'm just, that's just not my strength. Right. It's not where, where I live. And I think it's more important to know what you're good at and focus on it. I think a lot of times, like we get caught up in having to do what we think we need to do, and it's like.

No, you don't. I'm an entrepreneur, so it's different. I can pick my lanes, right? I could be like, yeah, I could either be cold power, right? For, I could spend three hours, two hours a day dialing, or I could go and have, you know, go to networking events and have meetings and coffees and lunches, and that could be a whole different way, so, right.

It's really like you don't, people think it's like one dimensional and it's not, it's not a one dimensional thing. It's like, it's like sports. It's like there are people that are good at, in basketball, at, you know, defense and there are [00:18:00] people that are great at three pointers and there are people that are great at, you know, passing the ball.

So it's like. Find your sweet spot, like, and, and find and go do something that relates to that. Once you find your sweet spot, the better fit of that two is like you end up doing things that bring you energy, add energy to you because you're mm-hmm. You like if you do the things you like, you compound better.

If you do things that you're, you don't enjoy doing, it takes it away and you feel not as good, and then you can't build off the momentum. It's, it's a huge, that's a huge thing, and I think that's where I've learned over eight years of being an entrepreneur. I used to try to do everything in sales, like, oh, I have to do this campaigns and I have to do calls.

Oh, we got it. And it's like. Okay. What do I like doing? Right? And also what, what is my cycle for what I'm building? If I'm talking to an enterprise company, guess what, it's an year cycle. It's not more and more.

Leighann Lovely: Right, right. Well, yes, and that's and understanding the difference. A lot of, a lot of people don't, [00:19:00] they don't understand that there is a difference.

They, uh, I mean e even companies will not understand sometimes early on that there is a difference between working with an enterprise company and working with, you know, and that's again, as a sales professional who is sold well to every size company. Not every industry. There's some industries that I'm like, I don't even wanna, don't even wanna get involved in that type of industry because it's like, yeah, yeah.

Me medical. Um, you know, I've always been like, I don't wanna get in medical because it's a completely different animal.

Tyler Marcus: Oh yeah. I mean, we could talk about that, like, I mean. Mean like if you're in healthcare specifically? Well, if you're selling to hospitals, for example, I mean, this is a whole, that's a whole different, it's like, um, it's a whole different world, right?

You be able to speak, you [00:20:00] know, language around to doctors and also to boards of hospitals, right? And you, that whole different, so you're talking to doctors and then you gotta go to a board. It's, it's a whole different cycle, and it's a whole d it's a different bureaucracy. It's almost like government in a sense.

You know, it's different.

Leighann Lovely: And that's a whole nother industry that I was, that I'm like, eh, I don't know. Because people don't realize that walking into a room where you're meeting with one person, one decision maker, that's going to be usually quite, quite fast. If they wanna buy and they're interested and it's one decision maker, you're pretty much, it's gonna be a fast decision.

And, and, and here's something that I, I, I learned really quick. If you've got, if you're selling especially to like a personal. You're going to sell a roof or you're going to somebody's home to sell a massive landscaping job, and that is owned, that house is owned by a husband and wife. Don't go [00:21:00] there. If the husband and wife are not together, you.

Yeah. Most husbands and wives, but not just the wife. Well, right. If, if,

Tyler Marcus: like the show, what's the home improvement show? Um, with the three houses or whatever. Have you ever seen the show? Uh, the, the really well known one, um, house Hunters or whatever where they have the three options and it's like, how many times is the wife option gets picked?

They're like, oh, it's out of budget, but they end up picking it anyway. They're like, actually, we figured it out.

Leighann Lovely: Right, right. But it's true, like if it, most couples, if it's over a certain price point, they make the decision together. But if you're only pitching to one person, you are now relying on the other person to sell their spouse.

There's no relationship there. You now have, you know, a proxy to try and sell your product, but you have, they, they don't care who you [00:22:00] are or what. There's no relationship

Tyler Marcus: unless, yeah, unless you're gonna at diplomacy or something. But it's like, well, especially that type of thing where it's like, that makes it harder.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. It's like. You need both. So it,

Leighann Lovely: and so it goes, it goes to the same of when you walk into an organization, if you are not sitting in front of the person who's got the final say, you're not gonna make the sale.

Tyler Marcus: Yeah, no. Yeah, exactly. Unless, right, unless you are able, like, because I know, like in my enterprise world.

What I find is like just getting, getting up to that person. So like, right,

Leighann Lovely: so like,

Tyler Marcus: for example,

Leighann Lovely: and that's where it becomes that stepping stone

Tyler Marcus: Yes. Gate. There's like the gatekeeper essentially. Right? Right. So it's like you just need to convince that person and like, how can I get to that next person?

Right? Like they, they, they won't make the decision without them, but how can I get in front of that person? To present my case. Right? Well, as long as you give 'em enough to arm it. So maybe if you, you know, the, one of the, the, the wife isn't home, but you know, you're like, [00:23:00] Hey, here's the economic here. Can we get at least get to that meeting where you can bring growth in the room?

Or at least one that it's, that's not just, you're not gonna close the sale with that person. It's like, it's one of those things.

Leighann Lovely: Right. And that's the, and that's the major difference between the enterprise sale and that small business owner who's like, yep, I am the decision maker. Yes, I'm gonna get the opinion of the other, you know, higher ups at the organization.

But ultimately you're building the relationship with the actual person who has the say and if they like you, well that's. People don't buy. You know, in the small world, people buy an emotion. In the enterprise world, there is a lot of logic that goes in and ultimately, yes, people don't buy from people they don't like.

But then you have to get everybody along that process to like you and to buy in and to eventually, and you are working your ass off every step of the way to get all of those people to buy into. [00:24:00] What you have to offer every step of the way.

Speaker: Yes,

Leighann Lovely: and and that can take and trust me, I was after a monster sized company for years, and I had an awesome relationship with the guy who had the direct relationship with the final decision maker.

And despite that, despite that, and, and I, I left the industry before I finally closed that sale. But I mean, it was like four years. Four years I was in contact with that person and had a great relationship and everything else, and it was like, am I ever gonna get at that meeting? Oh, one day you're gonna, yes, yes.

I promise I'm gonna make that introduction when we're ready. And it's like, well, it's been four years. Yeah.

Tyler Marcus: Yeah. It's, yeah, it's, it's one of, it's just, and yeah, that's, it's a lot of, it's a lot of, um, understanding how to like influence and dynamics around it and how you can, okay, what is this person? What, what am I trying to get with them and [00:25:00] how, how can I work with them, you know?

'cause in, like you said, in a giant organization, the finance team, they're gonna care about probably ROI and impact and cost, you know, the, this person, they might care about, oh, security and compliance. So how do you get them on board? Then it's like, okay, uh, the legal team, how do you this, you see? Versus if you go to a smaller business, like, I just need to get to the owner.

Get to the owner like Right. And can, it is different. It's a different world.

Leighann Lovely: It's funny, you know how many times I've been shut down by legal or compliance? Oh yeah.

Tyler Marcus: I've learned my lesson on that a few times,

Leighann Lovely: right? Oh, well we need to run you past legal to make sure that they're open to bringing in another contractor or they're bring, it's like, you know what?

I'm probably never gonna hear from you again.

Tyler Marcus: Story, story, story of our lives. It's part of, part of the process I learned

Leighann Lovely: and in and in staffing. You know, when, um, and this is way back in the day, we used to. Um, at the final minute, the company, uh, one company that I work for, [00:26:00] used to do credit checks on the company before we would do the Yep.

We we're approved to work for them. And that was the most painful thing because then the company would go, yep, we're ready to move forward. And then I would say, so I just need you to sign this document so we can do a credit check on you. And they'd go, yeah, yeah. Nobody else does that. And I'm like, oh.

Yeah, but I work for a really large publicly traded organization and they require, and you know, how many deals got shot down there? A lot. Probably a lot.

Tyler Marcus: A lot. Well, because like people, I guess, oh yeah, they don't pay up or something. It's like,

Leighann Lovely: well, and it's not even, it's not even that. It's not even that they weren't, that they didn't have great credit.

They just were like, really, like you? You're gonna run, like we we're a massive company. We, you're gonna run our credit. And I'm like. Sorry.

Speaker: Or maybe, you know.

Leighann Lovely: Right. And then I worked for another company that was like, we don't even need a contract. We're a handshake company. [00:27:00] And I'm like, oh, okay. I'm gonna get one.

It's, it's wildly. So we totally got off on a tangent here. So I, I love I'm com I'm, I'm in love with the whole, like, yeah. That whole kind of, that 360 view of being able to, you know, for organizations to really take a true look at that historical data for hiring. That's, I mean, how val, that you can't put a price point on the value that that has.

Tyler Marcus: Correct. And, but the thing is, I think, I think the problem is, is like. We're so used to like hr, uh, and talent area being a admin function and not a business driving function. And how, and how it's thought of in the American concept. Like, I'm not, not trying to, like, I'm just saying like from a business perspective, HR came out of the era of.

Of the industrial revolution because people were, were like, you know, didn't have rights and, you know, were, you know, [00:28:00] we're making like minimum wage and HR was there to put out fires and like deal with these issues of harassment and things. They were not, they weren't created for business function in other, in terms of driving the business.

They were. So I think a lot of it stems from this sort of historical, uh, undertone of how HR function is in the US now. I think it's changing with technology as the, the bigger enterprises are definitely more data-driven than smaller companies in hr. I think now it's getting, now with ai, I think people are starting to wake up and go, wait a second, how can we optimize different areas mm-hmm.

That provide impact. But if you're thinking about, if I'm thinking about a sales team, if I'm running a hundred person sales team. I'm thinking about not only can I drive revenue by getting customers, building, you know, process, you know, sales strategy, but also hiring and keeping people. Because the thing is, is like, it's, it's no different, like I said, than sports.

If you're getting the best players, yeah, you may have the best coach and the best strategy to, to run your plays, but if you don't have the best players on the court, you're not gonna win. It doesn't work. It doesn't [00:29:00] work. It's not, it, it, it's no diff nothing is different, right? In the, in how we operate, whether it's sports, a manufacturing environment, sales, it's all the same concepts late.

To what leads to success. So I just think that a lot of it just comes from old, like, sort of like old school thinking and, and historical thinking, you know? Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: I just kind of fell in love with you a little bit because you just brought in something that I, and I'm kidding, but you just brought in something that is, um, another passion of mine.

Love of sales podcast. So, well, the love of sales, right? The love of sales. But also, you know, I, I, in his, back in the day, I had an HR podcast where I talked about, you know, HR being, you know, just needing to, uh. Look and view things differently because there was a time where HR departments were these big beautiful departments.

And then 2008, you know, the, the, the 2006 to 2008 era hit and we squeezed these departments down to basically being nothing. And [00:30:00] you know, we are seeing more and more of. People, leaders coming up where their, their entire point is to, you know, actually drive happiness and be there for the people and to try to, you know, figure out ways to make more employee engagement, which is absolutely awesome, which is what we need to do because people need to be viewed at a company as an asset instead of as a liability.

And I think that so many people are like, oh God, HR is coming to talk to me. What did I do now? Or what do I have to, what paperwork do I have to spend the next hour filling out for my insurance or insurance that, you know, sucks or whatever. And that's not the company's fault, that's another whole topic issue with our world.

But, um, and, and that HR should be, should be. Actively like active participant in driving revenue at an organization through the active engagement of how we can [00:31:00] make employees happier. But it doesn't, it can't just be on hr. It has to be at every level. You can't have managers, and I understand that everybody at every level is a human.

We all have emotions, we all have bad days, but. At every single level in management and managers and supervisors have to be held to a higher standard of, you can't walk in and treat people like crap just because you're having a bad day. Because you are a manager, right? You are a supervisor, and that is what drives the regular.

I don't wanna say regular people, but the normal, you know, positions who are relying on those managers to make them feel that they are valued at an organization. And if we can do that through better understanding through data analytics, through data-driven information, through better understanding what our employees need in order to keep them at a co, a company [00:32:00] longer and happier outside of, you know, oh, I wanna raise.

And yes, there is a standard in which everybody should be paid a certain amount for a per certain job, not overpaid, not underpaid. And that's obviously a constant fluctuating thing as well. But if we can understand, better, understand all of that, I mean, wouldn't it just be a better, you know, happier place I went off on, you know, I just jumped.

Yeah, no, I know. Box.

Tyler Marcus: Yeah, I think, I think it all plays into the business success and anything, you know, I think, I mean, engagement, there's, you know, engagement. There are correl. I've done correlations and there are correlations in a lot of places where engagement drives business, better business and drives better outcomes on teams and different things like that.

It's just that I think a lot of times these metrics can come off as kind of soft and not, you know, and not like key KPIs. Right. I think in the tech world, yeah. I think what you're saying, like. The Googles of the world and you know, the Facebooks and the Apples, and they've [00:33:00] figured out that, like with through their people experiences, right?

You go to the office and it's like, you know, they got like free food and, you know, you know, it's, they got these meditation rooms and you know, oh, worker, you know, they're, they're geared towards the experience, uh, for a certain reason. Because they found that for collaboration and for like, you know. They want you to be at the office.

Like they want you to be there. If you go to Google's office, I've been to one in New York City, it's literally like walking into its own city. I feel like you step in this place and it's like, it's, there's four buildings connected by tunnels and it's, you walk in the cafeteria and it looks like a five star restaurant and you're like, oh, of course you're gonna come to the office.

Like, I mean, right. So, you know, so I think that they've, they've done things in a certain way to make those changes and to think about things. But I think. It is not just about that, but there's other things that factor into success and I think that it can get overlooked, uh, just more than it needs to.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah. Well, we are coming to time. Uh, Tyler, this has been [00:34:00] just a very awesome conversation. You do have your 30 seconds shameless pitch because after all, this is a sales podcast and it wouldn't be right to not give you your 30 seconds shameless pitch here at the end. Um, so go for it.

Tyler Marcus: Shameless. I don't shameless pitch.

See, this is so I, I like, that's the thing. I'm like, so I'm, I'm, it is funny you asked that. Like I haven't, I don't think I remember last time I had the, I did a 32nd pitch. I don't know if that's good or bad. Maybe I'm, that means I'm not pushing hard enough. But, um, but yeah, so, you know, like grab more. We, workforce intelligence business, uh, we do help teams like sales improve performance, um, particularly around using their data from CRM systems.

Uh, you know, things like predictive index where you can use behavioral assessments, could also use, like if you're using DISC or Hogan or any of these, like we can also do analysis with the other assessments. So I know a lot of people are very like. Sometimes, oh, I like this one verse that. Um, but we're assessment agnostic.

We can pull data from everything. Uh, so yeah, so, you know, if any way could help build your [00:35:00] team or grow, or do you have any questions about how we can leverage data? I'm just happy to be an expert or to be like a, a, a, a source, even if it's not, you know, a sale. So, um, yeah. So that's, that's my 32nd, uh, quick hitter.

Leighann Lovely: Awesome. And the um, uh, you can check to find where you can reach out to Tyler on the show notes. So if you do wanna reach out to him, please go there. But other than that, thank you so much. Um, this has been an awesome conversation.

Tyler Marcus: Thank you.

In this episode of Love Your Sales, host Leighann interviews Dave Siegel, CEO of Siegel Advisory Services, who shares his unique perspective on sales. Despite his personal dislike for the repetitive nature of the sales cycle, Dave emphasizes the importance of building relationships and consistent communication to stay top of mind with prospects. They discuss how technology, especially AI, can optimize sales processes and improve efficiency while highlighting the necessity of human oversight to maintain authenticity and quality in sales interactions.

Contact Dave –

Email - [email protected]

LinkedIn – http://www.linkedin.com/in/iamdavesiegel

Website - www.siegeladvisoryservices.com

Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 and the AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast – www.accelerategrowth45.com  

Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/

Channel Subscribe link - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-O7W9DzaRv4waodQKCprIg?sub_confirmation=1

Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined by Dave Siegel today. I am so excited to have him. Dave has been helping Companies achieve greater profits by reducing enterprise risk, optimizing processes, applying appropriate technology, and working across business units to fill communication gaps to achieve the necessary results.

Dave has been working in healthcare, financial services, and insurance, both as man, as a management consultant and [00:02:00] employee for over 30 years. Dave is the CEO and senior advisor at Segal Advisory Services, and I am thrilled to have him join me today.

Dave Seigel: Thank you. Thank you, thank you.

Leighann Lovely: Is there anything that I missed?

Dave Seigel: Uh, you forgot the faster than a speeding bullet and able to leap a tall building in a single bound, but otherwise you think you nailed it.

Leighann Lovely: Oh, well. So you are. A superhero by night. Yeah. At times. Sure. Fine. Oh,

Dave Seigel: okay.

Leighann Lovely: Awesome. Well, I'm, I'm thrilled to be interviewing a, a superhero then. Now you and I, um, when we talked, um, I, I love, I loved our conversation because you are unique to my, um, well, you're gonna be a unique one to this conversation because you had made a comment, um.

I hate sales.

Dave Seigel: I hate sales.

Leighann Lovely: I [00:03:00] love it. Let's talk about that.

Dave Seigel: Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about it.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah. So why?

Dave Seigel: Well, I, I, I like creative fresh, new challenges, and it is the, um, very, in my humble opinion, the very tight cycle. That sales is, it's the prospecting. It's the qualifying, it's the contacting, it's the repeat.

And, um, you know, I, I, I'm, I'm, I enjoy connecting with new people. I enjoy the digging in and understanding, finding the pain, finding the opportunity, helping them. But it is the, the sales cycle that, uh, the predictability of it. Or the repeatability of it. That, that I just don't like it. Sorry. Just don't like it.

Leighann Lovely: And, and that is, um, I would say [00:04:00] the, the number one reason that salespeople will fail.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm. I can see that.

Leighann Lovely: Because it comes down to, if you don't follow that, and, and it really, it, it is, it is a pattern, right? Mm-hmm. It's okay. So I've got a new, I've got a new lead. They go into your CRM, they go into your Excel spreadsheets.

If some people are still on Excel spreadsheets, you're a small business, you make that first contact, you may actually get a one-on-one with 'em, get to know 'em a little bit, and then they drop into your funnel.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: And then it is a consistent, in order to be a, you know, a at the top, you know, the one percenters, it is the consistent reach out, touch, email, call, touch, email, call, some type of or form of continuous communication with that person.

Mm-hmm. To [00:05:00] stay top of mind.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: If you don't do that, you're not top of mind. Right. And when the need. You offer comes up, if they're not thinking about you, they're gonna go to the service that is staying top of mind.

Dave Seigel: That's right. That's right. And you, and you know that there's a, there's a, a likelihood given that I do executive consulting, executive advisory work, the first person plants the seed.

Mm-hmm. And puts the idea in their head and that has to germinate and it, and like you said, if you're not really building the relationship beyond the initial couple contacts, um, touchpoint, you've put the idea in their head and then somebody else is gonna actually be the one to engage. No doubt, no doubt.

Yeah,

Leighann Lovely: so you [00:06:00] may be the person that actually cracks the egg, but you're not the person that actually, you know, goes and cooks it and all of the other stuff because you've, you've fallen off, you've, you're no longer.

Dave Seigel: Right.

Leighann Lovely: So now we understand, you know, your position on this. How have you, how have you pushed forward to be successful?

Dave Seigel: Well, I think that, that. It's okay to understand you don't like something, but it's, that doesn't mean you don't do it. And I network constantly. Um, we met through a, a common person. Um, I'll give her a shout out. Christina Shrive. Mm-hmm. Um, she and I are both on the Alpha team. Uh, building an H seven networking group here in Florida.

H seven Networking is a, is [00:07:00] a nationwide networking, um, entity. Uh, I'm in other networking groups as well, and everything that I do is through referral and word of mouth. Mm-hmm. And so therefore it's constantly speaking with people and. I think that the, the honest truth is we're always selling. Every conversation is in some way informing, um, or listening, pulling, pulling information that you can say, you know, is this, is this somebody that I can help directly or indirectly?

So yeah, it's, it's, it's not like I can say. I don't like selling and therefore I'm not doing it. It's, I don't like the sales process, but I'm engaged in it constantly

Leighann Lovely: and we all are. And I think that's the number [00:08:00] one misconception of, of people that people have. I mean, yes. Maybe, maybe the, the, the, the engineer, the it person that sits in an office and has limited contact from the outside world or doesn't have any contact from the outside world can say I don't do any selling.

Right. Except, except when all of the sudden they're with their friends. Right. And they're. Dude, we totally gotta go to that. And I'm in Milwaukee Brewer game. Um, you come on man, we gotta go. All of a sudden they find themselves mm-hmm. Selling their friends on going somewhere or doing something. So. No matter what, at some point in our lives, we are selling, we're pitching, we're negotiating, [00:09:00] we're, it's just a matter of when, where, how.

Some people do it as a profession, some people slide into it as a friend. You know, what we call the, the peer pressure, um mm-hmm. Is actually a form of selling. So when people will say to me, I hate salespeople. I'm like, really? Really, you, you, you hate everybody because everybody in one way or another, right, is a salesperson.

Dave Seigel: You know, there was a word, um, there is a word right now that has gained, uh, almost a secondary meaning in my opinion. When you were in a company, there was the distinction between the decision maker and those who held influence. Okay. Those who were the influential people? Those, those are the people who advised the decision makers well now, you know, um, I can say honestly, I don't use [00:10:00] TikTok, but it seems like everybody is a self-appointed, self anointed influencer.

So what used to be advertising is now influencing. Mm-hmm. Um.

Everybody has the power to influence. If you have, if you have an opinion, if you have a position, if you have a thought, um, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm guessing if you live in a cabin on the side of a mountain somewhere, there's not a whole lot of people around you to influence. But you know, like you said, peer pressure is influencing.

Mm-hmm. And in a company. Uh, in my case, helping a company understand what, what AI is, why, why could it be valuable to them from a business perspective, not from a technology perspective. They're asking me to influence them with, with data and with, uh, relevant [00:11:00] information, et cetera, et cetera. So, so yeah. I mean, I think that it's, it's, to me, the, the, the word that.

Used to mean you were, you were a, a, a person of influence because of your experience and knowledge and its expertise. You know, now it's kind of been diluted to, I'm a. 25-year-old man or woman who receives product in the mail. And therefore I go on TikTok and I try to influence people. Um, you know, that's advertising.

Mm-hmm. That's maybe marketing and advertising, but the word is very necessary in the sales process.

Leighann Lovely: Mm-hmm. And how powerful is it to be asked to influence me? Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. You, you're hired by a company to come in and they're like, okay, influence me on X, Y, [00:12:00] Z.

Dave Seigel: Right?

Leighann Lovely: And you're like, oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, if, if we put that, if we bring that back to the root of what it really, where it really came from, they're like, sell me on this.

Dave Seigel: Right. That's it. It's, you know, advisory work. Uh, I'm not a consultant. What we do is we advise, we, we, we want the client to, as quickly as possible, feel that we are sitting on their side of the, of the table. Mm-hmm. Seeing the problem or opportunity from their eyes and their point of view. And then we're able to say to them, okay, given what you wanna achieve.

Given the timeframe and the resources you have to allocate to it. I'm advising you to consider this or this or this, and I'm advising you to stay away from this or this, or this. Mm-hmm. Initially, it may be advising. Advising a path. But then when it gets closer [00:13:00] to decision making, yes, you are being brought in and you are being paid to influence.

You are being paid to be an objective third party who is not gonna receive, uh, compensation from, uh, a vendor or a product or a platform. You are influencing a decision that helps them feel comfortable and knowledgeable and, um. To achieve what they need to achieve.

Leighann Lovely: Right. Yeah. And that's, that's a one that's a powerful position to be put in.

Um, and.

I think that's, that's it. One, that's a powerful position to be put in. I was gonna try to come up with a two and I was like, wait, no. It's just, that is it. Not only is it a powerful position to be put, it's, it holds a great deal of responsibility because it, once you have influenced, once you have made recommendations, once you have, [00:14:00] and they have decided to go down that path.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: Who are they looking to? If that doesn't work?

Dave Seigel: It's, yeah, I was just thinking the same thing. Um, Leanne, if, if, if I influence somebody and they pursue the, um, pursue the path that I'm suggesting, you know, there are, there are a couple different approaches. There are companies very, very wealthy.

Nationally, internationally, globally known companies that provides strategy, advisory, influence, et cetera, they influence and then leave. It's like, okay, well I've given you the strategy. I've given you what you asked for, and now it's your choice, and if you decide to pursue it, you own the positive and or the negative.

[00:15:00] My approach

Leighann Lovely: is, I'd love to be in that position. It's, Hey, hey, go jump off that cliff. If you decide I'm outta here. That's, if you don't, I'm outta here.

Dave Seigel: You know, it's, uh, if the shoot doesn't open, sorry, dude. Um, but what, what my approach, my company's approach is, is we definitely are the trusted partner. So, you know.

Everything comes back to reputation. If I, if, if, if you, if you influence or advise 3, 4, 5, 10 clients and your batting average is good enough to get in the Hall of Fame in baseball, let's say your batting average is three 17 mm-hmm. Or even 400, we'll make it, we'll make it Ted Williams 400. That means you've failed 60% of the time.

Okay. In baseball, that's amazing. In baseball, right? That would be the best hitter of all time as a career, [00:16:00] 400 hitter. It means that career, you got out 60% of the time and everyone thought you were amazing in business. That's a, that's a, a different, a different metric,

Leighann Lovely: right?

Dave Seigel: Um, chances are if my, if, if I'm advising 1, 2, 3, 5, 10 clients and they're not.

Reaching a level of success, my reputation is gonna be shot. Right. My, my, my possibility of future work in a referral basis from any of them is obviously zero. So we not only do the influencing part, but we stay to help, um, advise the execution. Mm-hmm. You know, a lot of what comes down in business is knowing.

Where the potholes are and knowing where the failure points are. In fact, I have a, I have a, a, a a work of art in the other room that says an expert knows what not to do. [00:17:00] So that's, that's, I, I think a differentiator.

Leighann Lovely: And that's, I love that because often it's not what to do. It is what to avoid doing. Yeah.

And then once you are on the right path, pivoting appropriately as you are going through each next step.

Dave Seigel: That's right.

Leighann Lovely: And I mean, and that's all we can do. I mean, especially right. Especially in like the sales game and the marketing game, and it's, it's not necessarily always knowing the right answer. It's knowing no, just don't do that.

Right, right. And then, and definitely in, in sales, in, in every sales call. I can't walk in and say, okay, this is exactly what we are going to do, because you are working with a human element.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: You have, you have no idea what that human or how that human is going to react. [00:18:00] And so in business it's the same thing.

Like coming, you know, coming. And again, I, I always hate to bring, you know, politics, so I'm going to just brush over this because I'm, I'm, I'm not going one way or another, however. Mm-hmm.

Dave Seigel: We just came

Leighann Lovely: out of an election year. Right. Yep. Everybody kind of knew what not to do, which is go out and spend a ton of money and, and all of this other, you know, everybody kind of went, okay, this is where we kind of hold close to the chest and we, you know, we just stay in a holding pattern until we understand what's gonna happen with the economy the best that we can.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: Then once we see what the new playing field looks like, right. Then we can start to figure it out. That's right. That's right. And that's, and that, and that happens at what, every single election year? Um, well, it, and I came from the staffing industry, um, and, and the predictors in [00:19:00] hiring are just insane.

They, you always see the predictors in hiring and the hiring patterns mm-hmm. Prior to what's gonna happen with everything else. It's wild. Yeah. Um. But that's, that's for any, any business. It's what not to do. Instead of saying, oh, here's what to do, here's what's not to do, and then let's pivot to the right way.

And a great advisor, a great salesperson. Mm-hmm. A great, any great business person, as long as they take that mentality

Dave Seigel: mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: Then, and, and often there's people out there who mistake that and they're like, no, no, no. I wanna know exactly what we need to do right now. You're like,

Dave Seigel: right. Well, let me ask you a question if I may.

Um, yes. Okay. So now the, the interviewee becomes the interviewer please. Um,

would you agree that strategy, the way I define strategy in a very simple fashion, [00:20:00] is that when you get on an airplane at Mitchell Field and you're flying to Paris, okay. Strategically, they know where they wanna land. Mm-hmm. They know the endpoint on the horizon is Charles desal airport. Now on route there's going to be wind, there might be storms, there might be turbulence.

So they're constantly forced to make adjustments, tweaks. Tactical tweaks. Yeah. But the strategy remains intact. Mm-hmm. If you, and in fact if, if, uh, the weather at Charles desal shifts dramatically in the six hours or eight hours or however long the flight is and they have to divert you, then that was a strategic, a [00:21:00] strategic change based upon.

New information. Mm-hmm. In the sales process, do you feel that that is a similar pro approach?

Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. There's, there's been a hundred percent. There has been times where I have a proposal all ready to go, and I walk into a meeting and I'm ready to present that. Mm-hmm. And when I walk in the meeting, I get a, a sense in the room and I'm like, IM not presenting this proposal today.

Either they're not ready for it, or there's a, a sense in the room that. Like there's, there's just something that's not right or there's an extra person in there and they start asking all of these questions and I'm like, I don't, I don't know that I have the solution yet.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: Like, they're not, they're still in discovery mode.

Yeah. And I'm in presentation mode.

Dave Seigel: That's right.

Leighann Lovely: And it's like, wait a second, I missed something here. [00:22:00] You know? And if you were to push forward.

Dave Seigel: Yep.

Leighann Lovely: If that pilot were to just be like, eh, I'm just gonna keep going.

Dave Seigel: Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: You're gonna crash and burn.

Dave Seigel: Yeah. It's a very good chance. Yes.

Leighann Lovely: It, it's, I mean, and that's in life in general,

Dave Seigel: right?

You

Leighann Lovely: know, you're driving down the highway and there's big, huge orange cones that say, don't drive this way. The clo the, the road is closed. Well, do you just keep driving?

Dave Seigel: Well, what's interesting is that, yeah. In business, the number of times that I have in my career, um. It can be a startup or it could be a Fortune 25.

Mm-hmm. The number of times that you say to a business leader, can I see your published business strategy? You know, it's probably a three year, five year plan. Can I see where we are right now? The number of people who say it's not ready for prime time, it's not formulated, it's not [00:23:00] published well. That's a key thing necessary.

A filing a flight plan is kind of important, right? Um, the number of businesses who jump onto the tactical and say the strategy will figure itself out. Um, it just doesn't work.

Leighann Lovely: No. You still ha you still have to have the plan,

Dave Seigel: right.

Leighann Lovely: You still have to have, you know, how do we get from point A to point B?

Dave Seigel: That's right. And so I'm, I'm guessing in sales it's, you know, it's, it our, our sales teams tactically driven. In your opinion, like it, does sales strategy exist in your clients or in your companies, or do you help them craft that?

Leighann Lovely: It all depends on what they're looking. Four. And that's, you know, are, are, do you have a strategy in plan and are you [00:24:00] looking for me to, to help execute that?

Mm-hmm. Or do you not have that? And do you wanna sit down and figure out what does that look like today? What does it look like in 30 days, six months, a year? Yeah. And you also have to have the end in mind. Mm-hmm. Where do you wanna be? Okay. So you're making X amount a month today? Yep. What do you wanna make in 12 months?

And do you want, you know, what does that growth look like? What is it ca? What are you capable of? Exactly. It's like, it's like a salesperson. If you were to tell a salesperson Oh yeah, you making. Your revenue. And again, it could be completely different depending on the industry, but you're bringing in a hundred thousand dollars a month.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: And if you keep just telling the salesperson, that's so great. That's so great. Just keep doing it.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: They're gonna be happy with just making a hundred thousand dollars a month for the business every month.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: But if you sat 'em down and went, you're doing awesome. I love it. You're so great now.[00:25:00]

How do we take a hundred thousand dollars a month to 120,000? A dollars a month? Yeah. What do we have to do to increase that each month? What activities are we doing? We need to increase those activities. How do we increase, how do we increase that to $200,000 a month? Yep. And we actually talk about what is creating that, those results, if that sales person understands what's creating those results.

They will be able to then translate that into, oh, okay, so when I do this, this happens. When I make my sales calls, I get X amount of appointments. When I go on this amount of appointments, you know, those turn into, you know, presentations. Mm-hmm. This many presentations turns into this many. You have to understand the ratio to close.

Dave Seigel: Yes, yes.

Leighann Lovely: How many appointments turn into close?

Dave Seigel: That's right.

Leighann Lovely: And [00:26:00] once your salesperson understands those numbers

Dave Seigel: mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: All of a sudden they're like, oh, I just need five more appointments a month.

Dave Seigel: Yep. Yeah. And I can

Leighann Lovely: go to, you know, a hundred, a hundred thousand to 120,000.

Dave Seigel: Yep. Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: It's, it's, again, it's a numbers game and I, I learned that, um.

I learned that really early on that like if I made X amount of phone calls and then as you make those phone calls

Dave Seigel: mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: You get better at 'em.

Dave Seigel: Yes.

Leighann Lovely: Then all of a sudden I don't have to make as many phone calls.

Dave Seigel: There you go. Yes. Efficiency is very important.

Leighann Lovely: Right? Right. Let's not throw spaghetti at a wall and just hope that something sticks there.

Dave Seigel: Right.

Leighann Lovely: Let's do less work more efficiently. Right. And, and people, people think like, well, if I just keep doing what I'm doing today

Dave Seigel: mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: It'll continue to work well, why?

Dave Seigel: No, [00:27:00] no. I, we're kind of now dancing between what you do and what I do, which, you know, again, is very, very, what what you're talking about is data driven.

Mm-hmm. It's actually collecting information. To assess and analyze and improve and optimize. And that is exactly what what we are asked to do. Um, oftentimes people will come to us incorrectly by saying, we want to solve this technology issue, or we want to reduce the amount of money we spend on technology.

This is not a technology problem. What this is. First of all, you go and you look at the processes. And you say, um, are the processes that are being done that are critical, I won't say mission critical, but let's just say critical processes. I'll put it into your audience's, [00:28:00] um, arena. Let's say it's sales processes.

Okay? Mm-hmm. First, we look at them and we make sure that they are most efficient because in any organization, and I think, uh, um. Can't remember who exactly said it first, but it was a brilliant thing. Um, if you, if you try to add technology to a poor process, you just amplify inefficiency. So the first thing we do is we look at the process, the sales process, and we figure out is it most efficient and optimized for your purposes?

Mm-hmm. Then we look at the people and we say, okay, are the people. Complying, are they following the process? Are they circumventing it? Are they saying, you know, I've been doing this for 35 years and I'm gonna continue doing it my own way. On the back of napkins. So back

Leighann Lovely: of napkins,

Dave Seigel: you know, so you got the process optimized, you got the people, [00:29:00] I don't wanna say people optimized, but I wanna make sure that the people are actually following the optimized processes then, and only then can you introduce technology.

Or something. 'cause I call it the what and the why and the how. Right? People, process and technology. You gotta get the what and the why. Correct. Because the how is the most transient piece. It will change. Technology will change. So then you can say, now we've got these optimized sales processes. Now we've got our people following them.

Now let's collect data and. Make sure that first of all, everything is operating as we expect it to. Okay? Oftentimes you have a, you have to install a feedback loop to make sure that all of your assumptions and your modifications are actually bearing fruit. Then you can say, all right, let's apply technology.

Maybe that is a CRM [00:30:00] improvement. Maybe it's CRM, like you said, where it doesn't exist. Maybe it's reporting. Maybe it's a better business intelligence. Element being introduced. Mm-hmm. So that your salespeople, sales managers, leadership, uh, you know, and executives are being informed in a way that not to, not to weed out or to, to negatively, you know, punish, but rather to say, we have found patterns that are working and we want to make sure everybody can benefit from them.

'cause salespeople of course. Want to succeed on their, for their own bottom line. Mm-hmm. Um, so anyway, so I, I hope I stayed on track. What you're saying is that, that you need to be able to know when, when, what is, what does success look like? What does failure look like within your own four walls? And I, I think that that is, again, something that, that [00:31:00] my, um.

Company focuses on is mm-hmm. Helping companies of any size, um, find and create efficiencies.

Leighann Lovely: It, it absolutely does. And you're, you made the point of it doesn't, bringing in something to analyze the data before you have reviewed the processes, made sure that the people are doing it. What's the point of doing that, right?

If, if the processes are broken in the beginning,

Dave Seigel: right?

Leighann Lovely: Like I, I mean, I can analyze all day long and the results are gonna be the same, which is, yeah, this sucks.

Dave Seigel: Well, and, and the, the honest truth is remember now we'll go back to being an influencer or an advisor. Um, if you or one of your viewers calls us in and the chief sales or chief revenue officer.

Chief marketing [00:32:00] officer says, um, we're, we are having issues and we have three different CRM salespeople who are really pushing hard for us to bring in their solutions. Mm-hmm. As an influencer, as an advisor, my first question is, have any of those salespeople. Showed you a plan in which they analyze and optimize the processes, or are they just basically saying for a million dollars a year or for a hundred thousand dollars a year, whatever it comes down to, using our platform is your end game.

It is your golden ticket. They are influenced, pardon me, bad word. They are, uh, incented. To sell their product the same way salespeople, I mean, face it, who, you know, salespeople are selling and they're salespeople. Right. But [00:33:00] you need to, you need to see it holistically that this is process driven. Mm-hmm.

That this is people driven, that the tools are good if everything else is in place.

Leighann Lovely: Right. Right. And. It, it's, it, I go back to like chat GPT, which I use every single day. Mm-hmm. Yep. And if, and if I tell chat GPT to create me an email, it's only as good as creating an email or an article or by the information that I put in.

Dave Seigel: Right.

Leighann Lovely: So your tools, and again, you know, everybody gets a, some people get weirded out by ai. Some people AI is only as good as the information that you provide to it. It, I mean,

Dave Seigel: you are talking, you are now leading people into my world, which is Right. Whole thing. Thank you. I appreciate that. The way that [00:34:00] we, um, I, I, and just.

For, for background sake, I do have some certifications in ai. Um, the most recent witch was from MIT in AI in healthcare, and there is a term which I'm sure will gain a lot more visibility and traction day over day. Here the term is hallucination. Uh, I don't know if you've heard it. I can, it doesn't look like it.

Um. AI engines

Leighann Lovely: bringing me back to my college days. No, sorry.

Dave Seigel: Right on, bro. The, uh, the, the, uh, AI engines, I'm, I'm, I'm coming back to your point. The input is so important. Mm-hmm. The information you put in. Okay. So let's say you ask a question into chat, GPT or something else, the engine that sits behind it.

Is known as an LLMA large [00:35:00] language model, okay? Mm-hmm. Now, if the data, let's say the data here is correct, and there is a pretty well high, highly reliable, curated data source, and then over here there's some more data, but in between there's a gap, okay? Imagine a, A Valley AI engines. We'll make a leap of logic to fill in the gaps and then to return a response to you extremely quickly.

And they do this at blistering speed. That leap of logic oftentimes will return information that is incorrect, but it is inferred. That is what we, that is what is known as a hallucination. Okay. That is data hallucination. And. What people need to understand, um, what I don't call ai, artificial intelligence, I call it [00:36:00] augmented intelligence.

Okay. And the reason being is that you are, we are, at least at the current stage, it is heavily reliant upon you and I putting in the right information. It's reliant upon the. Let's say you're a company and you want to create and leverage ai, whether it be for internal efficiency or for external data, uh, pardon me, value creation.

So now you're using your own data stores and your own databases. Okay? Maybe mixing it with others, but you're now leveraging your own knowledge. Um, the data that is going in and the, and the information that is being. Produced still needs people to validate it needs people to say, you know, sniff test, sanity check, however you wanna call it.

Uh, and that's where the risk. In AI exists.

Leighann Lovely: [00:37:00] Yep. And, and I remember early on when like, God, this was quite a few years ago now, I was at like a little mini seminar or at, it wasn't, I don't, I don't remember what it was, but somebody was giving like a, a talk on ai.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: Um, and this was, you know, still really new to me.

I hadn't really gotten my, you know, hands on anything yet. I hadn't really used it yet. People were still, you know, learning about it. Um, I mean, it has, it had existed for a while, but it just hadn't become like mainstream where I literally am on it every single day and I'm like asking, Hey, could you look up some information on this for me?

And then I'll, you know, again, they had, he'd said like, and I, and I remember this so clearly because I was like, oh, that's a really good piece of information. He said that chat, GPT and other AI tools out there are, um, and I, I wanna get this phrase like, um, are. Um, and like excitedly, [00:38:00] he said something, some, um, are, oh God, now I forgot the phrase, but basically he was saying, um, they are

now, I forgot the, the phrase. Basically saying that they're. Inaccurate.

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm. But,

Leighann Lovely: but very

Dave Seigel: convincingly,

Leighann Lovely: convincingly inaccurate, like, yes, yes. You know, you'll, you'll get this information spit out and you're like, oh, yeah, that sounds like it's based completely on facts.

Dave Seigel: Right. So

Leighann Lovely: often I will ask for reference material if I'm looking for something that's like.

That I really need to know. Like if, if so, hey, let me know where you're referencing this from. Like don't, don't tell me that you're referencing this from. Some random Facebook person, you know, Facebook or something, right? So, you know, if I'm looking for true information and then I can go back and re like, check those references to make sure that they're, they're [00:39:00] coming from viable, you know?

Oh, confidently inaccurate. There we go. He said,

Dave Seigel: there it is. Cap GBC is

Leighann Lovely: confidently inaccurate. And I was like, that. That really. And there have been times where it's spit out information and I'm like, I don't think that's,

Dave Seigel: that's it's, it's like a toddler with great confidence. Yes. It's uh, you know, it the, um, when I was taking that MIT course, it was kind of cool.

It was like eight weeks and every week you would do a project and after the third week or fourth week, the proctors actually called me. And of course, being a little paranoid, I thought, oh God, I'm being taken to the principal's office. Um. What they said was that there are 200 people in the cohort and they said 199 of them answer our questions or basically do the responses in the way, in the manner of thinking of, Hey, wouldn't it be cool if you know we can do this and we could do this, so we could do this?

And, and they said, you know, we love that. 'cause MIT we [00:40:00] want to foster creativity and push, push boundaries. But, but they said yours is always the response that we love to read. We love to share amongst ourselves and they said, because of the 200, you're the only one that answers things with a pragmatism.

And in order to do this and to do it predictably and profitably and to I and to identify and abate the risks that we are introducing into the environment, we have to do it this way. And they said so few people in this day and age understand that, that using AI in a profitable and risk abated fashion will again catapult their success.

Mm-hmm. Too many people think that AI is a technology problem. With a technology solution and it is a business problem or business [00:41:00] opportunity that needs a business strategy. It needs process. And then you can then A, a use technology as the enabler, which is really the way it's always been.

Leighann Lovely: Right? And I think people have.

Misunderstood that. Yeah. That it's a tool to be used, not one to, yeah. It's, it's a tool to be used. Mm-hmm. And if used correctly is wildly powerful. That's right. Used incorrectly. And I think that we all understood that when the article, like, I don't how many years ago that was now, where the lawyer was like.

Used it for his deposition and it was like, oh my gosh, really? Like,

Dave Seigel: yeah.

Leighann Lovely: But that was, that was really the eye-opener for some people when they went, oh

Dave Seigel: yeah. Well, in your world, um, not to feel like I'm, I'm an outsider, but you're a sales professional and I'm, I, I do it 'cause [00:42:00] I have to. Um, Salesforce is.

Really dumping an immense amount of resources towards their sales agent technology. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, which makes all the sense in the world. Right. But coming back to that point, it is not gonna replace salespeople. It is not going to, um, it is not going to seismically change. Well, well crafted processes.

You know, you're gonna, you're gonna again say, all right, we now have the, the cutting edge tools. We have a, uh, a highly motivated sales team, Salesforce, we're using sales agents, or whatever Salesforce is calling it. Um, but the reality is it still comes down to, you know, an annual assessment of process. [00:43:00] Is everything still finely tuned?

Right. Are the skills people, uh, leveraging and adhering and complying, right? And, and the technology, again, in this case may be an AI injected platform is going to be your enabler. Right.

Leighann Lovely: And we, our c, our CRM, um, we are not only working on the sales, like a sales agent type thing

Dave Seigel: mm-hmm. But

Leighann Lovely: we're focusing more on the mundane tasks, the repetitive tasks.

Mm-hmm. That our AI can learn to do that are repeatable. Yes. So I have a meeting with somebody, I send them an email. We're creating it so that once you've had, you know, once you've had that meeting, there's a trigger in that system where that the system will automatically pull up that thank you email so that you can really quickly look at it [00:44:00] and be like, oh yes.

This is the email that I now send after this meeting where it, where it does those functionality. Like it has those functionalities where it's like, oh, you do this every time. Right? Let me just do this for you. Um, so there's, I mean, CRMs and there isn't gonna be systems where it's gonna cut back. Hours of your time because our ai, you know, the ais are learning from the humans on what comes next, but there will always have to be the human element, an oversight.

Dave Seigel: Thank you. Because Thank you. It,

Leighann Lovely: it's not a human, it doesn't have emotion, it doesn't have feeling, it doesn't have, and so when I meet with somebody who tells me, oh yeah, I was, you know. On vacation with my three daughters or my, whatever it might be. Well, as a salesperson that has emotions and feelings and wants to be able to connect with the people, right?

Right. I wanna be able to say, Hey, I'm so glad that you had a great [00:45:00] vacation. It was great that we have my AI will never be able to instill that emotion or that connection that I felt when I met with somebody.

Dave Seigel: Can I, can I mention now I'm gonna bring this back to risk if I can for one second, because again, I'm amazed at how many companies, large and small do not, when I say risk, if you say risk in the the financial world, they, they think about trading risk or credit risk, right?

The risk I'm talking about is enterprise risk. And there are, I wanna say, if you look it up, there's like. It's between eight and 13 that they list out, but it's financial, operational, reputational, legal, strategic, et cetera. Okay? Mm-hmm. And if you're pointing an AI agent or AI tool to the external, to the outside of your environment, to, for value creation [00:46:00] purposes.

Mm-hmm. Um, again, without some kind of. Operational control to make sure that what it's saying and what it's representing, uh, the amount of risk that you're exposing yourself to is immense. Okay. Because they're like dominoes. You know? If you, if you, if, if, let's say you're in healthcare and you, and you say, okay, well, I'm never gonna compete with the big companies.

I'm gonna have to do something different. I'm gonna create a differentiator. I'm gonna use AI and I'm gonna have it so that my clients can, can ask questions. Okay. Well, the minute that something comes out of the system that causes somebody to do something dangerous to themselves or to a child, you know, you know, take this antibiotic and this painkiller and it causes a reaction, you now have a, you know, reputational legal.

[00:47:00] Um, all of the dominoes are falling, right? Reputational risk or reputational, financial, operational, legal, strategic. They're all okay. Right? But when you point it internally, when you create widgets that are for internal efficiencies, you still have the same, you touched on it and that's why I was excited and you said yes.

You know, I was like, if, if you are a salesperson. And you are using that system that does exactly what you said. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's providing you the, the workflow. Okay, now here's the email, here's the, here's the, here's the follow up, whatever. Right? I agree with you that I personally would never assume that everything is right.

Right. Doesn't matter how many times you use it, you know? The fact is, is yes, AI can learn. AI does learn, but if AI is [00:48:00] being trained on questionable data or with questionable interaction, it, it's, it's not gonna be a linear path towards the pot of gold. So. If you are that sales person, and I'm now speaking to anybody in your audience that's listening, is if you're that person who's lucky enough to be working in an organization that is really thinking about process and efficient process and efficiency, and the system is putting in front of you, the next thing you should do in the process, um, look it over every time.

And make sure you are not just simply clicking send, you know, don't, don't, don't enable the pro, don't enable the automation of the process to take over and to Leanne's point, make it human because the, the system will give you the, uh, the boilerplate to work from. But it is, it is going to look like [00:49:00] an AI agent wrote it unless you make it your own.

Leighann Lovely: Right. Right. And that's. What do you do, Dave? If, if you get a robo call, what do you do? Mm-hmm.

Dave Seigel: I don't answer it.

Leighann Lovely: Well, the first thing I do is say, are you a human?

Dave Seigel: Yeah. Well, yeah. And typically

Leighann Lovely: they'll, typically, the response is, yes, I am a human. And I'm like, no, no, you're not. No, and I'll ask again, are you a human?

Right? And then they hang up on you because they're like, it gets tripped up in Right. The whole, like, it doesn't know what to do at that point. And I'm like, and you can always tell there was, early on, early on there was one that, um, like. And it, it's funny, but I mean, early on there was one that was really funny.

He kept saying, I can understand how you could think that I was not human. I mean, and you could tell like he was, it was a robot. But I, I don't, I'm not gonna talk. I mean, eventually every call is gonna [00:50:00] probably be that, but like, I'm not gonna talk to a robot right now. Like, I'm not interested in talking.

If you wanna reach out to me and do a sales call, fine. And I am a salesperson so often I will take sales calls and I will listen to their pitch.

Dave Seigel: Yep.

Leighann Lovely: And and they're horrible. So many. So many calls nowadays are horrible. They just talk over you and I, and I'll even say to 'em, stop, stop, stop. And they don't, and I'm like, you know what?

You can't

Dave Seigel: help. You can't help the coach.

Leighann Lovely: Fine. I'm, I'm hanging up. Like, I know I can't help but do it. I, it's, it's hor My husband's like, why do you put yourself through that? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I still in malls. God, I haven't been in a mall forever, but. In a mall. I used to walk up to 'em and be like, okay, gimme your spiel.

Like, I wanna hear it, but it's also training for me. Like, what are they doing that works? What are they doing that doesn't work?

Dave Seigel: Mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: Um, yeah, that's okay. Now that we've talked about my [00:51:00] issues.

Dave Seigel: Well, but it's so true. It's, it's a, a good salesperson will listen and will only speak enough to keep the other person talking.

Okay. And you are right when somebody calls and it's obvious that they are going on a script, and you know, it's not converse, it's not dialogue, it's, you know, you, I have to make sure you hear my message, rather or not, it's valuable to you as irrelevant to me. Right? Yeah. It's, it's not smart.

Leighann Lovely: Okay. Well, we, Dave, we have, we are coming to time.

This has been such an awesome conversation. I could have it for the next hour, but I wanna give you, um, the opportunity to do your 32nd shameless pitch. Hmm. Um, because that is what we do on, uh, the Love Your Sales podcast. So you have 30 seconds.

Dave Seigel: Well, Segal Advisory Services, uh, you can reach me at [00:52:00] [email protected] and we are different in that we are not a consulting firm.

Uh, we will do an assessment for you. Uh, it's intended to be brief and intended to be very affordable. You are going to get value from it quickly. You're gonna find out what your company is strong at and what your company may need some attention on, but it's always being done from the customer's or the client's point of view.

Um, most consulting firms will use the assessment as an opportunity for them specifically. To sell. They want to be, they want you to pay them to figure out how they can make you frightened or, or show you where you're lacking without really digging into your strategy and, and really understanding you. We want to become a trusted advisor to you.

We are reputation based, we are [00:53:00] integrity based. So when we come in and we look at your company, we're doing it with a knowledge of. What your strategy is, what you see as your problems or your opportunities. And then helping you understand, can we achieve success in our current state? And here are the greens, the yellows, the reds, and let's help you figure that out.

Everything we do is with the customer's perspective and point of view. First and foremost, uh, once again, it's Dave at. Segal advisory services.com. Uh, and I would love to hear from you

Leighann Lovely: and thank you so much for that, Dave. Um, your, your contact information will also be in the show notes, so if you are looking to reach out to Dave, you can check there for, um, his email, his website, um, also his LinkedIn, um, so you'll be able to reach out to 'em there.

Dave Seigel: Fantastic, fantastic. Thanks. And I look forward to hearing from the [00:54:00] millions and millions of listeners and viewers that you have.

Leighann Lovely: Thank you so much. This has been awesome.

Dave Seigel: Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate the opportunity and I hope, I hope you have a fantastic day.

AccelerateGrowth45: This podcast is presented by Accelerate Growth 45, your one stop shop for business growth. Stop running your business like an operator, delaying wealth creation and sacrificing your time. Instead, focus on building a valuable business asset, creating lasting wealth and reclaiming the time you deserve.

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Robb Conlon: Thanks for joining us for Love Your Sales. For More, connect with Leanne on LinkedIn and be sure to subscribe to the show and leave us a rating in review. We'd love to hear what you think, looking for a way to take your sales process to the next level. Visit [email protected] to find out more about how Leanne [00:55:00] can take your organization to new Revenue Heights.

And be sure to join us next time for more great ways to love your customers so they love your [00:56:00] sales.

In this episode of the 'Love Your Sales' podcast, Leighann interviews Adrianna Munoz, a nurse turned speaker who teaches healthcare professionals how to navigate conflict effectively. Adriana shares her personal journey from working in the neonatal ICU to the ER, highlighting her struggle and ultimate breakthrough in handling conflict. She emphasizes the importance of finding common ground, maintaining psychological safety, and empowering both healthcare workers and patients through effective communication. Adriana also draws parallels between conflict resolution in healthcare and handling pushback in sales, underscoring the value of curiosity and open communication.

Contact Andrianna –

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/adriannamunozcoach/

E-mail - [email protected]

Website - www.ogdenpeak.com

Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 and the AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast – www.accelerategrowth45.com  

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 Channel Subscribe link - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-O7W9DzaRv4waodQKCprIg?sub_confirmation=1

Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined by Adriana Munoz. She is a nurse turned speaker that helps healthcare professionals navigate conflict so they can focus on what matters most patient care and each other.

And I absolutely love that because, well, we know that sometimes communication, is one of the most important things. Um, well, to keeping [00:02:00] patients happy, calm, and, you know, collective, especially if it's in a heightened emotional state when things might not be going right.

 I'm excited to get into this conversation.

Adrianna Munoz: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me and for the opportunity to chat here with you. It's been a twisty road to get here, like I'm sure many people you've talked to and for you, I know when we met last as well, so I'm just, you know, delighted to be here.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah. So why don't we talk a little bit about your journey, because I, I'll tell you that. Some of, well, not some, a lot of nurses, people who are in the healthcare industry that I have spoken with, that I have met are often tightlipped about their industry, about what goes on in the the back office of the healthcare industry.

So I'd love to hear more [00:03:00] about how you started and. That journey of where you are now, and then kind of get into the, the, you know, the, the brass tacks of everything.

Adrianna Munoz: Yeah. Thank you so much for asking. I have been a registered nurse since 2014, and I started out my career in the neonatal ICU, and this was in a hospital in Chicago.

I did that for about two years and I jumped ship to go to work in the ER because I realized that I really missed working with people. I got into nursing because I love people. And I just didn't get the interactions that I wanted, and I felt kind of pigeonholed being in such a niche, but beautiful type of nursing.

Mm-hmm. And so I made this jump into the ER and I was like, oh my gosh. I was so out of my depth. I had so much to learn. I really did not have footing in that arena at all. And I learned very quickly in one critical incident actually, where a patient was really heightened, really, really upset about with me, even though it was something I had no control over.

And so I, I [00:04:00] ran outta the closet and I just. I ran outta the room and I hid in a closet and I cried. And for me, that was like my pivotal moment where I was sitting in the closet and I sitting there thinking, oh my gosh, have I avoided conflict my whole life? Am I a people pleaser? Oh my gosh. And I'm sitting in the closet and I looked down, I'm like, wow, this is really disgusting.

I should probably get off the floor. And I, I got off the floor and I went back to the room with the patient. I stuck up for myself and I made it my mission. I'm like, I never wanna feel like that again. And as I found my footing in the er, I started. Navigating those conversations very differently where I felt more comfortable being assertive, sticking up for myself, and then I started precepting new grads.

I was a mentor. I was taking on more leadership roles. When I got my master's degree, I had the opportunity to step into project management where I was pulling from these communication skills that just helped me level up every time I had a new challenge. And I found that my story is not very unique.

There are so many Facebook nursing groups where people are posting anonymously. [00:05:00] I'm crying in the bathroom every shift. I hate my coworkers. The patients are so mean and I don't know what to do. And this is just something that healthcare needs to be talking about. And I think I might have a different perspective because I've become a safe space for a lot of my coworkers.

'cause I still work in the er. I, I step back from leadership and people will come to me and ask for help troubleshooting certain things. So I think maybe I've become a trusted resource, but this is something healthcare needs to be talking about because people are leaving the industry. Mm-hmm. Because they don't know how to talk to each other, and it does always affect patient care.

So that's how I got to where I am. It's just truly for a love of people. And I almost imagine my job as a speaker and workshop facilitator, nursing, just on a bigger scale with the audience that I'm connecting with.

Leighann Lovely: Right. That's, that's amazing. And you know, as you're talking, you know, so I, I go back to when I was pregnant, I was probably, well, I would say that most women probably at some point or another have, maybe not, I don't know.

It was me. I'm [00:06:00] just gonna say me. I was a bear like every time. And I was in the, the ER constantly. I, I was a, a what, what did they. The old pregnant women. Ge, ge, ge geriatric.

Adrianna Munoz: Oh, did they? Geriatric.

Leighann Lovely: Geriatric. I hate that term. I'm sorry. They, they called me a geriatric pregnant woman because I was like, I was 38.

Right. I was th yeah, I was 38. So, you know, me 38 years old and I'm pregnant and my doctor warned me. She's like, this is gonna be hard on your body. And I'm like, you know, great. Like, you know, and more and more women are having babies at an older age, you know? Right. But I had no idea how hard it was gonna be on my body.

Like I was in the ER constantly. I became tachycardic. So I was sitting in the ER one day. Um. I'm, my heart rate is through, like, it's sitting just normally at a hundred beats per minute. And I'm like, what is wrong with me? And I remember that they came in and I'm at froedter, which is a training, you know, [00:07:00] hospital.

They, they teach and they came in and they're like, Hey, we have this new way of doing blood work with an ultrasound or whatever to find that. And they're like, this is a training person. And I, I'm all about like, yeah, sure, why not? It was horrific. Mm. It was absolutely horrific. The pain because they like missed, they missed the vein, and I didn't, and again, this is where the, sometimes the people pleaser, like I should have just said, look, I'm pregnant.

I don't feel good. Leave me alone. Go do the training on somebody else. I'm not in the mood for this. So I mean, it got to the point where I said, pull it out. Stop. Stop. And they're like, just one more second. I'm like, give me my arm, which set off, you know, the crying hysterically and then me getting up and grabbing my bag and I'm like, I'm leaving.

And a nurse walking, [00:08:00] you know? And I'm thinking to myself, God, I was so horrible after that event to these nurses, they're like following me down the hallway like, ma'am, just get back in the bed and I'm going, get away from me. Like, yeah. But you don't realize like in the moment, like how horrible you're treating those people because you yourself are in an emotion, like, like state, and so you don't mean to do it.

So you have to go back to like. The nurses are dealing with that. That's just one person. Now think of the, you know, the 50 other people who are filled in this, you know, especially when you're talking about like freighter hospital, which is the huge, you know, again, I'm in Milwaukee. This is a huge gigantic, this is our trauma center for Milwaukee.

Um, you just don't realize. They're dealing with not [00:09:00] just one of me, they're dealing with hundreds of people who are coming through every day

in that state, potentially in that state, and it's like, wow, you have to have a really

thick skin.

Adrianna Munoz: To start, I am sorry that you had that experience. Oh no, it's with a, it sounds like it was an ultrasound iv and training for that can be tricky. And it is painful, so I am sorry. Genuinely because I, I've been there where people are bouncing around trying to find my veins.

They're huge. My veins are huge. And I was like, but then also people have to learn somewhere. But regardless, patient's voice is. One of the most important.

Leighann Lovely: Well, right.

And I said yes, and, and that was my mistake of like, well, I'm already, you know, I'm already uncomfortable because I'm one of those people who's like, yeah, I don't mind.

Like I know that you have to train. I made the mistake of going, yeah, why not? And then I was like, wait, no, maybe I shouldn't have said

yes.

Adrianna Munoz: Well, [00:10:00] we see people on the worst days of their life and they could be coming in for anything, but they're scared enough to leave their home, find a way to the er, sit in a waiting room, wait in an uncomfortable area, listen to bells being beeping, hear people screaming.

People are nervous enough to show up and see us, and I, I wish that. Like, I've, I've been in the ER for a long time and I've worked in a, a lot of ERs, like what you're describing, huge medical centers. We have high volume, just every, everything walks through the front door, every, every type of person. But everybody has a story and people are coming to us feeling so.

Emotionally agitated. For whatever reason, nobody wants to be in the er. I didn't know that when I started nursing. It like blew my mind. But like nobody wants to be there and learning how to deescalate people very quickly. Right? And learning how to navigate those conversations. And in a way to bring this full circle, it's almost like selling people, getting them involved.

Their [00:11:00] care where it's kind of pivoting it to a point of empowerment where it's saying, sure, Leanne, you don't have to stay. I get it. I get it. I'm right there with you. This is painful. What can we do to make sure this is a win for you? Because you care enough to come in? And so how do you shape those conversations to make it collaborative, to make the person that's on the receiving end of it feel empowered to put them in the driver's seat.

These conversations work not just in conflict. That's just my special niche in the world.

Leighann Lovely: So let's talk

about that. So, because, and again, you know, at, at this point for me, I was, I had checked out, I'm, there's the door. Now, had somebody like had somebody like you during that, I was getting agitated. I was starting to, you know.

My emotions were getting even higher. It was getting more and more elevated. Had somebody like you come in and gone, okay, I can see that you're getting upset. I can see, you know, how do you train [00:12:00] nurses? How do you help them identify those situations? And then. Kind of help bring them down, help them empower that person to understand that you did come here for, you know, something.

And we on, and I'm not gonna continue. I want to hear this in your words.

Adrianna Munoz: That is such a great question. It, it starts out with, and this is the first workshop I do in any series. This is the opening part of my keynote. Let's find common ground. Let's, let's find common ground. I could find common ground with anybody, and if it's a patient, it's usually gonna sound something like, I know you care enough to be here and I wanna make sure that I take care of you.

We both care about your health, so let's establish common ground to make sure that we are conversing about something and we have some sort of shared space because humans are not pack animals, but we do wanna feel included. It's part of. Maslow's hierarchy of needs. We need, and then people are coming to healthcare for very [00:13:00] base physiological needs, like breathing blood flow.

If you are pregnant, you have a baby you care about. And in healthcare, I care about your health. That's, that's why I am there. That's what we both share about. So when I am training somebody, I will say at least you always share that in common with somebody. Mm-hmm. They could be showing up and they could be a total jerk.

It doesn't mean that you need to tolerate it, but as a human being, at least you care about the same thing. And then. Recognizing when we in healthcare feel really agitated and what our triggers are. 'cause it looks different. We, healthcare workers have a lot of stuff going on in their head too. People are going through divorces.

Their kids are sick. I mean, I, when I was in management, I heard some crazy stuff that people were going through and. Having empathy for ourselves is huge. So if you're feeling agitated, take a deep breath. There's always time. If you really have to tap out of the situation, step away. But maintaining your cool is always gonna, it's always gonna win out.

So it's, let's understand our shared [00:14:00] foundation. Let's do our best to bait and maintain our own psychological safety and have grace with ourself. And then once we have that established, we could extend it. To the patient that we're talking to, or in my case, I train for a lot of interpersonal conflict on the team.

So usually people let things get outta hand and then they start to build narratives in their head with another coworker. Like, oh God, this person I, I hate working with them. I hate it, or I hate my boss. And I think getting really clear is the next step on. What are you actually mad about? Are you mad at them?

You just don't like them as a person, which personality conflict is 49% of conflict at work, right? Which is fine, but are, are you gonna be able to give them feedback or is this something you need to let go? Is this your own bias or is this something where you can say specifically a behavior that they do, you can change because.

That's, that's like probably one of the bigger things I coach too. It's, we can give feedback on behaviors. Behaviors you could change and if it's really good feedback, people should want to hear it. Mm-hmm. But setting people up to [00:15:00] receive it is, is honestly 75% of the battle. But if you just don't like somebody because you don't like them, right.

You gotta get over it. It's, we're not gonna problem. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: And identifying whether or not it's a you problem or it's a, okay, this is a potentially, you know, they're triggering you or. Yeah. And that's, you know,

that's self-awareness as well.

Adrianna Munoz: Yes. It's hard. It, it's hard. I mean, we, we all come with our own stuff going on.

We've all had lives, we all have different experiences, but that's what makes us human and that's what makes our perspectives valuable. So I. The first way I like to open up all of my client engagements is like all of my knowledge starts and stops in this little noggin right here. So I will own my expertise and I know that I have a lot to earn, so, or a lot to earn.

I apologize a lot to learn, and it's setting the tone where it's, we're gonna learn a lot today, but also you have expertise that you should be owning as [00:16:00] well in those conversations.

Leighann Lovely: You know this, this is not, I mean, this is all amazing, but this is not. It's not new to,

these are basic foundations that every business needs. Mm-hmm. But you, there are certain industries that I believe should have standard mental health checks. Like, Hey, you, you work in a highly emotional driven industry. Nursing, um, firefighters, police officers, like typically when they're being engaged, there are very heightened emotions involved.

When somebody gets pulled over, they may not be extremely, you know, upset or whatever, but often they're like, oh man, when a police officer is getting called to certain situations, there are extremely heightened emotions involved. [00:17:00] When you're working in an er, when you're working in, you know, I mean, I, I don't know that there's any medical situation where somebody is not slightly, you know, heightened YI don't like going to the doctor.

I mean, yes, I do, and I don't, like, I, it's just not something that I would check on my box of, oh yes, I can't wait to go to the doctor, like, you know. You just always hope that when you walk out that they're either like, yep, status quo or great news. Mm-hmm. You know, you never want it to be on the other end of Ooh uh, so something is not right in your blood work, or, Hey, we found so, you know, there's just certain industries.

It's where it's like. Maybe we should have like a standard mental health check or somebody like you, a facilitator who's coming in and saying, okay guys, let's work on our communication. Let's work. Do you have [00:18:00] somebody that you work with that when you have a really bad day or you are, you are having one that you can go over to him and go, man, today's today's rough, like.

I need, I need an extra 10 minutes to go collect myself, and that person is gonna go, yeah, I understand. I get it. But there's not a lot of, there's not a lot of that. You're starting to see this in certain industries where they're accepting of mental health awareness and they're like, oh, okay, so, but. We're not just talking about mental health, we're not talking about that.

We're talking about just the stressors of real day-to-day life. Mm-hmm. And it now we're actually having those conversations. But up until a couple of years ago, it wasn't really even a conversation that people were having. Like, I don't want to hear, you know, Hey, leave your emotions at the door. [00:19:00] Come in here and do your job.

Uh oh. Okay. Great. That's not a real thing anymore. We don't do that. We're not, robots and emotions are messy.

Mm-hmm.

They're like real life. Right. Right. They're women. Right. And And you would think that nursing and the healthcare industry would've been leading the way for this type of thing, for what you are doing.

It doesn't sound like that's necessarily the case.

Adrianna Munoz: There are a lot of programs out there. There are nursing support groups. There are online learning education, therapeutic communication. That's part of nursing program curriculum. It was for me when I went to school [00:20:00] forever ago, but what I think is lacking.

Is that ongoing education piece where it's a peer to say, I get it. Work can be real cruddy sometimes it just is, but it's not yours to bear alone. Let's figure out how we can reduce that stress moving forward, because I don't want you leaving the profession because we need you. Uh, that if I would've had people tell me that directly from a boss or a superior, I would've stayed in some jobs a lot longer.

But so that human connection, that bare minimum is just not there sometimes, and I think it's, it's, it's a, it's very multifactorial, but leaders are stressed. They don't have time to invest in their own education charge nurses. Are sometimes having full assignments. They are running the floor at the same time, and our peers are drowning in their own stuff going on too.

So [00:21:00] it's not built in. And why, why is that? Is that because

Leighann Lovely: of the lack of, of people going into the industry?

Adrianna Munoz: It's hard to say it's multifactorial. I know that there are a lot of people graduating nursing school. There's a lot of talk about a nursing shortage. I think what we're seeing more now, and I'm curious to see how the trend continues with AI and the new technology that's happening and the people are leaving nursing a few years into their careers.

They're not staying, uh. It's, and then nurse managers, it's the same. They very rarely stay in their job for more than three to five years. They leave. It's very stressful. So I don't know if it's a resource allocation or a skills deficit. Interesting. It's hard to say like what it it, which one it is, and I think it really depends on.

The, the organization as well. So I don't wanna like, give a blanket cover statement.

Leighann Lovely: No, no, no. And that's, uh, that's fair. That's absolutely [00:22:00] fair. Because, and we've heard about, you know, the shortages and if you have shortages, you have to allocate the work to somebody, which only makes it worse. Mm-hmm. So offering more resources to help with.

Stress, having the conversations. So, so before I go down that rabbit hole, because we're gonna run short on time because I mean, I could talk about this forever. So when you are out there doing, you know, speaking and when you're out there,

get a little bit more into the, the nuts, you know, the nuts and bolts of, of that, and. Ultimately, you know, what are, what are, what are people walking away with?

Adrianna Munoz: Hmm. A big thing that I would say differentiates me from other speakers and what people walk away with is. A newfound motivation to navigate conflict.

Uh, for example, I just [00:23:00] did a workshop last week and it was called, uh, the Leadership Lab. And the first part of it is just all about conflict with confidence. I part, I partnered with a really wonderful marketing expert and one of the women that came said, she still refers to the framework that I taught.

Last year, like in November, and she came up to me after the workshop and she was like, I'm excited to get in a fight now. 'cause I feel like I finally know what a good conversation should look like. And by working in the ER and dealing with people who are so heightened, I bring them into the stories. And I know that everybody has stories, like my stories not unique of me hiding in a closet, crying me physically running away from conflict.

I know most new grad nurses either feel this way or they've actually done the same thing. So it's that relatability that people see in, in me, which is so important for speakers. Like I will be so vulnerable on stage if it helps more people feel connected to my stories and and connected to the plan that I'm sharing.

People walk away knowing that conflict really has conflict resolution. These conversations have like three big steps. You gotta figure out what the problem is and [00:24:00] who you have to talk to, and so that's when you're identifying it. Then you're going into the collaborative conversation and then you're walking away with a plan.

Every conversation should be some sort of, we're walking away with a plan, whether it's we both messed up, let's drop it. You messed up. Let's own it. I messed up. I'll own it. Or we're escalating it to hr. And if you realize this isn't even your conversation to have, are you just going straight to your manager or hr?

So people are walking away with a concrete framework, but then also an understanding that their voice is really powerful. There's hierarchies in the hospital where it's doctors, managers, admin. The nurse's voice is powerful. Mm-hmm. Everybody's voice is powerful. I don't care what your role is, it's never a bad idea to speak up for yourself and advocate for patients, because when we have that communication that's open, it's best for patients.

That's what it comes down for. That's why we're there. And people walk away every single time with a concrete framework and they know how to set up a conversation to [00:25:00] deescalate that tension within 30 seconds.

Leighann Lovely: And, and I, everything that you're saying is, is absolutely awesome because it really, you're, you're talking about the base of n not just nursing, not just in the framework of a hospital, the base of any conversation really.

You walk in understanding, listening. Digesting what that person is saying to you and understanding that there should be, there should be a beginning, a middle, and an end. There should never be a, oh wait, you're, you're leaving mid conversation and there's no, there's, and, and I bring this back to sales.

Obviously this is a. Right. Yeah. And every conversation, um, and, and I, and I see salespeople, as soon as the conversation gets uncomfortable, they're like, oh, okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna find a way to back out of this. And that's where the sale [00:26:00] gets lost.

Adrianna Munoz: Hmm.

Leighann Lovely: Because all of the sudden, or it's starting to get to a point where they're like.

Hmm. This person is asking me questions or saying things that are, are not positive about what I have to, to offer them, or they're pushing back too much and we're talking about, you know, not necessarily conflict, but more of a, um, just. Just push back in any way. Mm-hmm. That's when a lot of people start going, oh, I'm not feeling the warm and fuzzy.

And that's when they, that's when they run. Right. And, and people have to understand that not every conversation that you have, somebody's gonna go, yep, I agree. Yep. Yeah, I agree. And that's healthy. Yes, it's healthy. If every.

If every single, if I, if I [00:27:00] just literally said, Hey, I'm gonna do this, and everybody just went, yeah. Okay. Great. Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah. Okay, great. I'd be like, this is so

Adrianna Munoz: boring. I wouldn't wanna work on that team. No. Like nothing would get done. There would be no innovation. It would be so boring. We would stay stagnant.

Leighann Lovely: Yes. Status quo would just, it would never, ever nothing. I want a team. I want people to challenge me. Yes, all the time. Challenge me because I don't get smarter if there's no challenge. Mm-hmm. My clients don't make me more intelligent. My coworkers, well, my coworkers technically are my cat and my dog right now, but the best, right?

But you know what I mean. People, my, my colleagues, there has to be pushback in some way or another. And if that means [00:28:00] conflict, fine, lean into it to try to understand their positioning. And this comes in sales conversations all the time. Understand. And once you lean into that, you're going to be able to hopefully, if you're open-minded enough and solid in who you are

Adrianna Munoz: mm-hmm.

And

Leighann Lovely: understand and, and willing to take constructive criticism, you have to be open to that. And a lot of people struggle with that. Mm-hmm. In my, in, in my opinion, a lot of. The, you know, if we better and people are like, no, I like the way that I do it. Yeah, I get that, but hear me out for a second. And that's what I love.

Like, oh, you mean that there's an easier way to do this that could take me five minutes instead of 20? Tell me that's the healthy, that is absolutely the, [00:29:00] and so I, I applaud. I applaud people who are willing to call me out and say, Hey, let's have this, like mm-hmm. So it's, it's true for any, any conversation and, but you're right people.

And it's funny because as children it's our natural curiosity to challenge our parents. For most kids, they grow up going, eh, mommy told me to do this, but eh, I don't, I don't know if I wanna do that right now. Yeah, it's true. And then for some reason, we grow up and we stop doing that. Mm-hmm. Like we, we start to fall in line and all of the sudden we run from.

We were born to naturally do, which is question. Mm-hmm. Have the curiosity, have the pushback of, [00:30:00] wait, you told me to brush my teeth. Uh, I'm gonna go stare in the mirror and do my hair for 20 minutes. Like, wait, what are you doing? I don't wanna do that. Well, wait, you can tell that I have a child. Um, and, and I, I bring that, I bring that out a lot.

I go back to. Children a lot because we are born with a lot of these natural things that later in life we have to relearn. Mm-hmm.

Adrianna Munoz: So I love that point. It's so true. And. I, uh, I have, um, a lot of speaking mentors, uh, as part of National Speakers Association, and one of them said earlier this week, I want you to bring that energy that a 6-year-old has. You ask a 6-year-old what they wanna do, what they wanna be when they grow up and they're like, I wanna be an astronaut and a baker.

And everybody's like, heck yeah, you go little Adriana. [00:31:00] But now people look at us like we're crazy, but why can't we have that same level of confidence and question things? And I think to to also, to your point to like reframe it for, for sales and in these conflict situations. I have trained myself because my natural disposition is always to avoid things like I know that about myself.

I feel that, but now I, I've relearned it enough where I'm like, Nope, this is a good thing. And I tell myself in my head, this person cares enough to show up passionately. Let's hear them out. But I, I literally say that to myself in my head, when someone is showing up in a way that's very passionate. And I'm just like, good for this person, let's figure out what, like what are they really trying to say?

Because they care a lot about it. I wanna know what's happening. I might be wrong. Or this might be our chance to develop a better shared understanding. So in sales, it's why am I getting pushed back on this price? Like, do they, like what, what's the behind that? Do they really not have the money for it or do they not think they're worthy of buying the coaching or the consulting [00:32:00] or like, what is it?

What's the real reason? Um, and just having a conversation and approaching it curiously is gonna get you so much further in any human relationship than just shutting down and being like, this is awkward. Gotta go by. Yep.

Leighann Lovely: Right, right. And, and we never would've done that when we were a six yearold or a seven year.

We would've continued to be like, well, why? Why? Tell me why. Yes, why?

Adrianna Munoz: Relentless,

Leighann Lovely: relentlessly. Until somebody was like, okay, just stop. Okay, fine. I'll buy it for you, or I'll buy it from you. Yeah. Yes. Oh.

Adrianna Munoz: Yes. If we ever wanna learn sales, just hang out with a 6-year-old. Like, just do it.

Leighann Lovely: Hey, you got, you wanna hang out with my 7-year-old?

Because man, she wears you down. But it, but it's, it's true. That's that we, we as, and. Obviously it's natural. You're supposed to grow up, you're supposed to learn more. And I think that [00:33:00] sometimes our knowledge of things start to scare us and damper that a little bit because then we, you know, you Yeah. Learn.

But, so we are coming to time and this has been an amazing conversation and I absolutely, you know, I love your approach. Um, you do get a 32nd shameless pitch, so.

Adrianna Munoz: Go at it. Oh gosh. Well, first of all, kudos to Leanne. Thank you for your time and thank you for having me and for your just awesome questions and if you've made it this far in this episode, hi.

Nice to meet you. And if you have any questions about conflict, please reach out. I love to chat all things conflict because I think life gets less stressful when we know how to bridge those communications over our differences. I do advertise to healthcare only because I'm a nurse and I figure if my communication can work in an er, it could work in any industry.

So reach out. I would love just to meet you. Uh, this is my, my life's work right here and. Thank you so much for having me and giving me a gracious platform to just chat your ear off about it. Leanne,

Leighann Lovely: it's been [00:34:00] awesome. Thank you so very much. And your, um, your LinkedIn profile, your website will be in the show notes, so if you do want to check out or reach out to, uh, Adriana, that will be there for you to do that.

Adrianna Munoz: Thank you.

Leighann Lovely: Thank you so much.

AccelerateGrowth45: This podcast is presented by Accelerate Growth 45, your one stop shop for business growth. Stop running your business like an operator, delaying wealth creation and sacrificing your time. Instead, focus on building a valuable business asset, creating lasting wealth and reclaiming the time you deserve.

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In this episode of Love Your Sales, podcast host Leighann interviews Dave Molenda, a seasoned sales professional and business coach, about improving sales follow-up strategies. They discuss the common pitfalls salespeople face, the importance of consistent follow-up, and distinguishing between passive, aggressive, and assertive follow-up approaches. Dave emphasizes the need for intentional and value-added contacts rather than superficial check-ins. Additionally, they talk about Dave's approach to strengthening teams to improve customer experience, which he elaborates on in his Amazon bestseller, Growing on Purpose.

Contact Dave –

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmolenda/

Website - https://positivepolarity.com/

Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 and the AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast – www.accelerategrowth45.com  

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Ready to grow your business? Schedule a call with us today  - https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/discoverysalesleighann

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#sales #businessdevelopment #entrepreneur #entrepreneurship #selling #relashionships #customerexperience #podcast #loveyoursales #lastingrelashionships #salescareers #salesmanager #salesdevelopment #traininganddevelopment #leadershipdevelopment #salespodcast #salestraining

Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined by Dave Melinda. Uh, Dave, uh, has had a quite a career, um, in sales, but after 30 years of starting his own company and growing it to a $10 million. Annual sales. Dave realized that his passion was helping companies thrive by overcoming their natural tendencies to retreat and spin their wheels on the wrong things.

Dave's [00:02:00] current company, positive Polarity, is a Midwest business coaching firm. His recent book Growing On Purpose. Was an instant number one Amazon bestseller and will help strengthen your team and improve your customer's experience. Dave's latest project, the Positive Polarity Podcast has over 270 episodes and is rated in the top 2% of all podcasts in the world.

Wow. According to listen notes.com. Dave Melinda is excited to be part of Love Your Sales podcast and is looking forward to the conversation today. I'm so excited to have you join me, um, today for a awesome conversation. Um, anD yeah, I'm, I'm just excited to pick your brain as you know, somebody who loves sales as much as I do,

Dave Molenda: absolutely great to be here.

Thanks for the invitation, Leanne. I'm excited. I can't believe you. You said retreat and spin their [00:03:00] wheels on the wrong thing. It's funny, we're gonna talk about that exact thing today because our topic is gonna be fun and it's gonna be challenging when it comes to the sales world. So hopefully everybody's strapped in and ready to go.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah, and you know, it's, I, I, I use, I, I talk to people about that, that same thing. Um, and I had a boss who constantly would say, are you. Spending time on revenue generating tasks. Yep. And it took me a long time to finally like drill that into my head and then have a true understanding of what are revenue generating tasks, because we often mistake what those are for spinning our wheels just on things that really have.

No importance, but we, we get it in our head that they do right as salespeople,

Dave Molenda: right. No, absolutely. I [00:04:00] call it paid time versus no paid time. Right. So revenue generating is the technical way to say it. I just say pay time or no pay time. And if you're in front of a customer or a prospect or communicating with one to me, that's pay time.

Mm-hmm. And you know, I, you can argue all day long if. Sitting on LinkedIn is pay time or not, doesn't really make you money at the end of the day. So, like you said, it's not really income generating. So, um, I think the topic today will definitely be something in the pay time category that will definitely make us some money.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah, a a absolutely. So. Let's dive in. You know, let's talk about, you know, the importance, you know, something that we kind of just discussed prior to hitting the record button. Yep. Um, let's, what, where do you think that salespeople in general have a tendency to drop the ball and. [00:05:00] When you're working with somebody, what is something that you really help them hone in on to become more successful salespeople?

Um, and, and here's something I just, I think that if you can get sales down in your career and you, you can implement these things in your life.

Dave Molenda: Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: And, and I'm a believer in that. So let's, let's dive into this. Let's, yeah. What is, what is one of the most important things.

Dave Molenda: Well, I think, yeah, the two big words are follow up, right?

I mean, people today, Leanne, are so used to doing a ton of product knowledge training, so they're very, um, skilled and well versed on their product. They might be good at, you know, making connections, but boy, it's the back end of this whole thing that really most people struggle with. You know, they do a presentation for however, they do their sales process.

And then [00:06:00] somehow, uh, a prospect will say, has your proposal, you've done your presentation. And most people at that point, you know, they get stuck because the, you know, the, the buyer, whatever, the prospect will say, Hey, that was awesome. Let me take a look at this and I'll get back to you. That kind of for so often, for so many people, hopefully nobody listening to love Your sales podcast.

But for a lot of people that's where it stops. And then. What do we do next? You know, without having a clear next step, we're in, we're already in their system. I mean, there's two systems that are going on in sales. There's either the salesperson system or the buyer's system, and their system generally is, you know, um, I'll, don't call us.

We'll call you, I'll call you when I'm ready. That kind of stuff. Um. That's, I think where people get stuck is what do I do? How do I follow up? Um, and so I think, we'll, we'll cover some of those [00:07:00] today. But you know, the research shows that half of the sales, um, people that are out there right now, they never follow up with a prospect.

So, you know, that's good for us if our competition is not following up, but it's bad for us if we're not following up. So I, I just wanna encourage everybody to make sure that they're following up and, and we will, we will lay out a process for everybody today so they can help 'em.

Leighann Lovely: And why so it goes, you know, the squeaky wheel gets, gets the oil right.

Uh, it's so, yep. Why do you think. That people don't follow up the way they should, do you? I mean, is it related to, I don't know, how process, um, lack of like documentation.

Dave Molenda: I think it comes down to people, don't they? The most salespeople that I've met, [00:08:00] most people that I've trained over the years that I've worked with, coached, mentored.

They are these type of people that are very black and white in their thinking. So they think I'm either gonna be very passive, uh, and I'm going to let the customer lead the discussion, or I'm gonna be really aggressive. There's no middle ground for a lot of people. So when they think follow up, they think, I don't want to be too pushy.

That's the number one thing that I hear out of people in training is I don't want to be too pushy and I'm, I'm not. Um, follow up doesn't mean sit and camp in the buyer's driveway until they come home, you know, and kind. Stalk them. We're not stalking people, but there's, there's passive and aggressive Leanne.

And I think in the middle is what's called assertive. And I think we can be assertive and we're trying to sell something. We're trying to solve a need, we're trying to help this person out. And I just run into so many people [00:09:00] that just say, I don't wanna be pushy and therefore. They wait for the phone to ring and they wait, and they wait and they wait and it never happens.

And then when they finally find out six months later that this, you know, uh, prospect is already gone, then it's a whole different story. Then they're like, oh, I didn't like 'em anyway. They wouldn't have been a good customer. I mean, they come up with all these ideas and reasons, which six months ago you would've loved to do business with them.

So just be real, be honest with everybody and just say that either I'm scared of follow up or I'm not good at it. But those are generally the two camps that people find themselves in.

Leighann Lovely: Well, and it's funny that you say, well, we're not stalkers well here. I'll introduce. People are like, what do you do? And I'm like, well, I'm a salesperson.

Like through and through salesperson, basically I'm a professional stalker. Yeah. And people will giggle about that because that's how, I mean, people are, uh, you know, I, thanks for the call, Leanne, but I'm, I'm just [00:10:00] not interested right now. Okay? Yep, that's fine. You're not interested right now. Should I give you a call in a month or six months?

Right. What is your timeline? That's something that I've just got used to doing because. You're not interested. You didn't say no, you didn't tell me to f off.

Dave Molenda: Right.

Leighann Lovely: And that's, and that's I guess how I was trained.

Dave Molenda: Yeah. No, and like you, you just pointed it out right there when you said, I'm not ready yet.

Right? I'm not ready yet. Not today. Most people would take that as all. All right, I'm gonna close this file. I'm gonna cross 'em off my list. I'm gonna, whatever. Whatever you do, call it dead. And you just picked up on something that most people slide right by. You didn't say ever, you just said right now. So I think also a huge component of this, Leanne, is people don't listen.

They're not listening to the prospect. If most of us in sales would listen to the prospect, they're gonna tell you how to sell to them. [00:11:00] Mm-hmm. They're gonna tell you the process, they're gonna tell you how to do it. You just have to listen. And we have so much stuff in the back of our head, so much product knowledge, so much, you know, like anxiety.

There's just so much I've watched. We videotape, we secret shop, we do all these. Things. And we just are shocked at some of these people on how they panic when they're in some of these modes. They don't know what to do, so they shut down and they just can't wait to get out of there. So we just have to take this thing and take it over.

And if we can't at least control the follow up on the back end

Leighann Lovely: right then, and in to your point, um, we don't listen. Um. If we were to, and again, I'm not gonna put all salespeople in a box, but for a moment here I'm gonna pull out some of the characteristics of the atypical salesperson. They are shiny object syndrome.

They are the [00:12:00] immediate gratification of, Ooh, ooh, I just got a sail. Ooh, I've got somebody who's interested. And when that person loses interest, they're like, eh, I am gonna move on. 'cause they want that. But typically those salespeople. Aren't the long term one percenters.

Dave Molenda: Correct.

Leighann Lovely: They are the, Hey, I'm good at this job right now.

I can bring in. But eventually after they've tapped the market on the surface, they're like, oh, there's nobody out there to buy from me. It's like,

Dave Molenda: you can only sell to your neighbors and friends and family for so long. Right, right. But if you're,

Leighann Lovely: if you're, if you're listening, that prospect list becomes really long and you've got all of these people that you've spoken with, and now they know you.

Right. And now it's just you're following up saying, Hey John, how you doing? You know, we spoke six months ago.

Dave Molenda: Yep. And I think there's a big difference. I I, I see, I look at this as two [00:13:00] buckets. I think there's a salesperson bucket and then there's a sales professional bucket. And I think the sales professionals are the ones that are getting all the sales.

They're the ones that are following up successfully. They're the ones that are making it in sales. I mean, you know. Six figures in sales is nothing anymore. Having a six figure income is, you know, used to be like the, the pinnacle of trying to, you know, that was the big number to hit when, when I was a kid and growing up and starting my business.

That was always like that big number to hit. And, and now that's like almost entry level, you know, obviously there's, you know, retail sales, but. Depending on what, what type of ticket item you're selling and what dollar amount, um, you know, we're talking some big numbers. And so this is your livelihood. So you have to practice, you have to be able to get trained and coached and, you know, I, I hate seeing people get thrown into sales, uh, with zero training.[00:14:00]

Like me, I remember my first, you know, I was 19 and my fir i, I got hired at eight o'clock and by eight 10 a call came in and by nine o'clock I'm sitting in front of a prospect's office in front of a prospect in their office. I'm like, I have no clue what I'm doing. Year, but I'm 19 and I'm just, you know, just kind of making it up as I go.

It's okay if that's an amp for the, for the sales person, that's okay. If you wanna jump into the sales professional world, you gotta start training. You gotta, it's, it's just like a professional baseball player. They, they have season, they have a preseason. They have, you know, all this practice that they do off season, they don't just walk up and start hitting day one.

And that's what we think we can do in sales and that nothing could be further from the truth.

Leighann Lovely: And that's funny that you, you bring up that example of when you started, because I hear a lot of us that have been in it for a long time, that's how we were just thrown to the, [00:15:00] the wolves we're like, yep, yep.

Here's the information. This is what you're gonna sell. Go sell it. And you're like, oh.

Dave Molenda: Yep. And you're

Leighann Lovely: floundering around going, um, what do I do?

Dave Molenda: Yeah. They're like,

Leighann Lovely: just go sell this. Well, most of us,

Dave Molenda: exactly, most of us had the product training week one. Think of week one. In your sales world, it was about product training.

Maybe you went to, you know, some kind of bootcamp. Maybe you went to the manufacturer, the vendor, whatever, or you were given back in the day, the. The flip chart and you just kind of walked through that thing, or the three ring binder and you were just sitting there learning and it was like, great. You have to have product knowledge.

Absolutely. But how do you deliver that message effectively? You know, everybody just kind of does it their own way and that just doesn't work in sales anymore,

Leighann Lovely: right? No. So if somebody engages you, where do you start with the sales knowledge? [00:16:00] How do you, I mean, do you have a standard playbook of this is where you start and Yeah, absolutely.

This is why the, this is why it's so important to follow up. Like where do you begin, Dave?

Dave Molenda: Yeah. I generally ask people to, um, explain to me what their process looks like. What's your current process look like? That's hard. That in itself Leanne, is really hard. Most people can't even articulate what that looks like.

Um, you know, how many days or weeks or hours do you prospect? How many appointments does that turn into from, you know, just kind of walk us through from the first moment that you uncover an opportunity at a networking event to, you know, the post-sale on the backside. What does that, what does that process look like?

Very few people can explain that. Um, if they are successful, then I always ask two things. Number one is, what does your follow up [00:17:00] process look like? And then I get to hear that. But the t to me, the most important piece of information that I want to do is I wanna look at their calendar. I want to see, do you have prospecting in there?

Do you have networking? Do you have follow up? Do you have the components of that process on your calendar? Because if you don't have it, it's safe to say you're probably not doing it effectively as you could, because if, if it's not on there every Wednesday at three o'clock or whatever it looks like for you, if you don't schedule it.

We know in time management, most of the times if it's not scheduled, it's not something that's gonna get done.

Leighann Lovely: Right? Yeah, absolutely. And salespeople are notorious for when it comes to sitting down and picking up the phone to make phone calls, that is the number one thing that they go, I'll get to that later.

Dave Molenda: Yeah, exactly. I'll do that one

Leighann Lovely: later.

Dave Molenda: Oh wait, I wanna go on LinkedIn. It's like your shiny object thing, right? Oh, look at LinkedIn. I [00:18:00] just got a notification from LinkedIn. Somebody's, you know, wants to connect with me so I jump on LinkedIn and before you know it, my hour that I was supposed to do my follow ups, I was on LinkedIn and therefore that was a wasted hour in pertaining to trying to talk and sell something to somebody.

So,

Leighann Lovely: right. And you know, you go from LinkedIn to all of a sudden you're watching CAT videos. Right.

Dave Molenda: Yeah, exactly. And I had a guy on my podcast, uh, Drewby, and he's, his company name is called The Damn Leads because he is like, this is crazy. Right now, people are doing everything they possibly can do to get, you know, justify why I don't have to call them.

You know, like follow up if 50% of people are not following up in sales. And then, you know, 20, about 25, we'll just call it 25% are stopping after one attempt, and then 12% stop after, you know, two or [00:19:00] three. We have this small amount of people like that are calling more than three times. Well, the research shows that 80% of sales are made between the fifth and the 12th call.

So in my mind, 10% of the sales are being are, are 10% of the sales professionals are making like 80% of the sales. Right, because from a pure numbers perspective, and I'm open to it being different in your market, so don't shut us down because of that. But generally speaking, we need to go chase that sale some way, shape or form, um, before they're gonna be successful.

Unless you made a mistake or you're the only one in the world selling what you're selling. And if you are, then hey. Paul, Leanne and I and Wolf definitely, uh, partake in that because Right. There's so many people out there selling what everybody has now. It's crazy.

Leighann Lovely: Right. You know, and as a company, you know, love your sales is a company who does, you know, al the, [00:20:00] we, we get hired to make cold calls for other companies and, and it's so funny when the company will ask, so when can I expect the first results?

Yeah.

Dave Molenda: And I'm

Leighann Lovely: always like, okay, let me explain how cold calls work.

Dave Molenda: Right.

Leighann Lovely: You know, like, and, and, and it's always funny too because they're coming to us and they're like, so when are you gonna, I'm like, well, how many calls are you making right now?

Dave Molenda: Right. Yeah. Well,

Leighann Lovely: well, none, that's not coming to, right,

Dave Molenda: right.

That's why you're here. Come on. And, and then I,

Leighann Lovely: and then you go through that, those statistics that you just went through, and those typically, those have shifted because in today's worlds. Uh, those numbers are real when you have connects.

Dave Molenda: Yep.

Leighann Lovely: We're talking about less and less people answering their phone,

Dave Molenda: right?

Leighann Lovely: So you actually have to have connects and the amount of people who actually return phone calls these days,

Dave Molenda: right?

Leighann Lovely: Uh, right. Yep. So [00:21:00] now we're talking about, you know, name recognition. We're talking about making phone calls to create name recognition. We're also talking about creating credibility online so that if they see you that, oh, okay, look it now.

Now we're building up credibility. So it's becoming harder and harder in a saturated world where the bleeps and blooms are boom. You know what I mean? Are constantly going off in order to Yep. Differentiate yourself from another marketing company, another right. Printing company. And so that number from five to 12 is starting to go from, you know, 12 to 20 because people are being inundated.

And so you have to make, so when I get that question of, well, so when will I get my first appointment scheduled? It's like, well. Here's how many phone calls we make in X amount of time. [00:22:00] This is how many connects you can expect to potentially have.

Dave Molenda: Right?

Leighann Lovely: We don't, we don't say, yeah, we're gonna, and it's always funny when I get marketing, you know, and everybody gets this.

You get somebody who's marketing to you and they're like, we will schedule 12 to 15 appointments for you in the first month. And it's like. Okay, great. Sure. Are these gonna be quality or are you calling your friends and telling them to meet with me?

Dave Molenda: Yeah. Yep. No, that's, that's, that's so funny. I mean, I think one of the best kept secrets.

You know, everyone's always looking for secret sauce, magic bullet, whatever. I think when it comes to, um, you know, uh, follow up, I, i, I, I cringe when people call me and their whole goal is, Hey, I'm just calling to follow up, to check in on the status of X. That adds no value at all to the, to the person that, that, to that prospect.

So I always [00:23:00] tell people if you don't add value every single time that you call, don't call.

Leighann Lovely: Right?

Dave Molenda: Because you know, maybe it's a relevant article, maybe it's a new white paper. Maybe you got a connection for somebody, you know, if you can't find a reason to call, other than just following up on my proposal, that's so selfish.

That's so about you, which I get, but you want someone to call you back. You gotta give them reason to call you back because we always, I ask my, like I ask people like. Who would you wanna meet if you could? Dead or alive, right? So we'll just pick, I don't know, pick Tiger Woods. You know golfer. So if you said, Hey, I'd love to talk to Tiger Woods, if you were sitting at your desk and you looked down at your phone and it said, tiger Woods calling you, oh my gosh, you would take that call.

You'd stop whatever you were doing and you would take that call regardless. That's the kind of thought process that we need for these, for us to have. So when my prospect sees [00:24:00] Dave Melinda falling, he's like, oh my gosh, I think I better pick this up. He might have something for me. Mm-hmm. Other than following up on this quote, because that's to me is just like the kiss of death.

So. That's probably the hardest part. I think Leanne, a follow up is getting intentional, finding something on LinkedIn, finding something on their website, finding something that's valuable for them to further their um, life. And then they'll come back in spades for you.

Leighann Lovely: Right. And not only it's following up, circling back tho, tho.

And it's using that language too. Hey, I'm just circling back with you to see what Yeah. You know, I have 10 of those emails in my inbox right now. I don't even have to go and check. I know I do. Just circling back on this email I sent you.

Dave Molenda: Yeah. Or putting it at the top. I get that. The other one is, I just want to get, make sure this is on the top of the pile, and it's like, what [00:25:00] does that tell you?

Why is it at the bottom of the pile? It tells you that because you didn't add value, you didn't do something. Somewhere along the line there was a miss. A disconnect and that's what ends up happening is your stuff goes to the bottom. Let's just call it what it is. The funny thing is too, Leanne, is we're all consumers so we all know the tricks and tips and you know, like, I don't know about you, but I can't remember the last time.

My phone said spam call. I can't remember the last time. I'm like, oh yes, a spam call. I'm gonna like, oh, I can't wait to talk to this person. Right. You know, we just, we're so aligned with being, you know, hiding from people that that's what they do. They're gonna hide from you, so we gotta give them reasons not to hide.

You gotta get in your mind. You're Tiger Woods and I got something that you definitely want. To hear. And that's again, one of the most powerful positions that you can be in, in the follow up side.

Leighann Lovely: Right. And that [00:26:00] goes back to, you know, I, I've been, um, I, I was working with somebody a while back and he's like, well, I've got, you know, this many contacts and I'm just gonna send out every, uh, to, you know, 20,000 people.

I'm just going to email them all. And I'm like, okay, wait. Do you know that that 20,000 people have an interest in you? Like have you walked through who your ideal client is? Yeah. Have you gone through the steps to even figure out if spending the money to. Do an email campaign to 20,000 people that you, uh, you know, do you have any demographics?

Oh no, I haven't had a chance to do that. Then you're wasting your time and yours Exactly. And potentially burning a relationship that you could have if you spent just a little extra time to figure [00:27:00] out who they are by, you know, actually looking at. That information because

Dave Molenda: yeah, I don't know where this, yeah, I don't know where the, where the, where the spray and prey mentality came from.

Where qua quantity beats quality, 20,000 people. I'd rather you have even, even a hundred is too much. I mean, I have like a top 10 list, a top 10 target list for myself, because outside of 10 is unmanageable for me. Now again, everybody's different, so I'm open to whatever works in your world. Just think of 20,000 people.

Let's just say for the sake of the conversation, 20,000 people you email. Even if one, and I am terrible with math, hopefully you're better than me. What's 1% of 20,200?

Leighann Lovely: Mm-hmm. Is that right? Yeah. So let's just

Dave Molenda: say 1% respond back you. If you had 200 names in front of you of people that wanted to talk to you, you couldn't even handle it.

You couldn't [00:28:00] even handle, I don't care who you are, you couldn't handle it because you'd start at one. You, you just wouldn't be able to do it. So what's the purpose of 20,000?

Leighann Lovely: Right.

Dave Molenda: I don't know. I don't get it.

Leighann Lovely: Right. And that's, that's, but that's also too where a CRM can come in. Sure. And you also have to define your purpose.

What is your purpose? Are you right. Are you trying to sell to them or are you trying to get followers who will eventually, you know, help get your name out there for a

Dave Molenda: Right.

Leighann Lovely: But if you're trying to sell them something, then you better be targeting in a market in which has Yep. That has interest in what you're offering.

Otherwise there's no point.

Dave Molenda: Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: And that's why, you know, again, I have, you know, yep. I have a CRM that that is capable of putting each one of those into groups. And then when I make those phone calls, I know what I'm talking about [00:29:00] to that particular person. Sure. And it makes it easier for that follow up too, because

Dave Molenda: Yep.

Leighann Lovely: Now we know why we're following up. We know what they could potentially be interested in. We know the word track and that's another thing that sales. I don't know about you, Dave, but you know, I, my sales career, my career, you know, I'm 20 years in, you know, you've, you've 30

years in, back in the day, taking notes on all of that was not nearly as easy as is as it is today.

You know, a lot of notes, paper. I remember the days when I would drive around and all my notes were on paper. Um, but I got really hyper specific. Oh, talk to sure. Yep. Talked to Dave today. He mentioned, you know, that he's got a kid, he mentioned this or whatever. And I remember I was in a meeting and they introduced me to a gentleman, a salesperson actually that walked into the [00:30:00] room and he was going off about this and I was doing my pitch given my, this is the day when proposals were like 15 pages, 20 pages long, and people would actually sit and go through 'em and yeah, those days.

Um, and salesperson walked in and he had mentioned a couple of things. And as he was leaving, I said back to him and he looked at me, he goes, how did you know that I had a daughter? And I said, well, you had just mentioned it. And he's like, I didn't even realize I mentioned it, but

Dave Molenda: listen. Yep.

Leighann Lovely: Correct. That was, that was one of those things that as an HR person, 'cause I have an HR background, I was able to tie those listening skills.

And I, I would write down every tiny detail about everybody because people like to have you reference personal things about them.

Dave Molenda: Right?

Leighann Lovely: They feel important when you turn [00:31:00] around and reference something that you, that they've just said,

Dave Molenda: yep,

Leighann Lovely: comes human. No, absolutely.

Dave Molenda: I'm, I'm so old that I used to remember going and sitting at the, sitting in line at the gas station waiting to use the payphone because there were two, three salespeople before you.

So you know, and people, most of your listeners right now are like, what? What are you talking about? You know, so it's getting easier and easier with email, LinkedIn. You know, cell phones, all this stuff to connect. So again, and find information. So I wanna go back to that again. If you are not coming up with information on why this person needs to call you back, um, they're not gonna call you back.

Because most of these buyers have all these people calling them constantly. Now, again, depending on your industry and things like that, but you know, if you are, if you are calling on a buyer where his [00:32:00] job or her job is to be a buyer, you gotta be even more on your toes because that's all they do every day.

Is just, you know, take calls from people like us and, you know, they listen walls up. They're trying to find a reason to get you off the phone so they can get back to work and get some stuff done. Um, so it's, it's hard if you are just taking the easy route. Your paycheck is probably gonna be proportionate to how much grit and how much, you know, um, pain you've been through in your career.

So.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm gonna shift here for a little bit because I don't wanna miss the opportunity to, um, just talk about this for a little bit. Um, yeah, so you have a, um, recently, actually don't let me back up. Growing on purpose. Yes. Number one, um, Amazon bestseller. Tell me a little bit about this.

Dave Molenda: So [00:33:00] we back I, so I created this formula, which was really interesting because there's a lot of research done on ways and reasons to strengthen your team, and there's a lot of information out there and research on how to improve your customer's experience, but they've never really been connected to each other.

And I found out that a weak team provides a weak. Customer experience and a strong team creates a strong customer experience. So I created this, um, strengthen the team, plus improving your customer's experience equals profit. So if you are not profitable, um, you are struggling either with a weak team or a weak experience or both.

It's possible to have both, but generally you have one of those that are challenged, and that's again, when you think about your sales, why does your sales team. Why is, why is your sales team weak? You're not [00:34:00] investing time in 'em like we talked about before. Your onboarding consists of nine minutes of, you know, dis discussion at the beginning, and then you're done and they, you feel like the team is ready and the team's nowhere close to being ready.

So, so I wrote the book because I found some great research out there about how to. Connect the two together. So if you have a strong team and a strong customer experience, you will have strong profits. It's guaranteed.

Leighann Lovely: Awesome. So that is available on Amazon?

Dave Molenda: Yes. So

Leighann Lovely: I, I definitely gotta check that out. Um, I have not had the privilege of reading that yet, but I'm definitely going to do that.

Um, I'm a geek and I love anything. Anything sales, anything, you know. Yep. So, um, definitely. And then, um, before we, before we end, you have your 32nd, second shame. Um, so please.

Dave Molenda: 32nd change. What am I gonna do in 30 seconds? What do you [00:35:00] want me to do? You

Leighann Lovely: have, you have pitch anything that you would like. Love to.

Okay. I would love to hear about, um, your events. You have monthly events. Yeah. I know you have an amazing podcast, so I'd love to hear. Okay. Love to hear about it. Gotcha.

Dave Molenda: So, yeah, I think the podcast is probably, um, gonna be the most helpful for your listeners, Leanne, because. We have people each week, um, like you do, uh, from around the world that come on, and we talk about the intersection of personal growth and business growth.

And a lot of times, uh, what ends up happening is, like what we just did is you just un a topic comes up and you just unpack that topic. And so, you know, whether it's how to be, how to start a business, how to grow a business, how to sell a business. I just had, um, uh, somebody on, we talked about A DHD in the workplace.

I mean, there's just so much going on on the team that we just need help. And so, you know, it's [00:36:00] 30, 40 minutes a week to just listen to other people's ideas from around the planet on how they're doing, uh, to and strengthen that team because, um, again, strengthening your team. We need an engaged team in order to be successfully.

Creating that, uh, great customer experience. So that's, uh, that's the spot if you want. In addition, don't stop listening to love your sales, but just, uh, create, uh, some more opportunity to find, uh, the Positive Polarity podcast. We'd be honored to hang out with you.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah. And you also have a monthly event, um, here in the Milwaukee, Wisconsin, um, market that, um, is, is absolutely amazing and I wanna point that out.

Um. So, yeah,

Dave Molenda: no, absolutely. We meet every month at the Better Business Bureau of Milwaukee, and it's on positive polarity.com if you wanna learn more. But like last week, we just had four local business owners, [00:37:00] uh, as a panel, and they were talking about ways to improve the customer's experience because again, the research is crazy right now.

Almost. Nine out of 10 of our existing customers, Leanne will pay more for a better experience. I think it's 86% is the number. So that basically means if we have 10 customers right now, eight and a half of them will pay more for a better experience. So rather than invest all this time and energy to go ahead and get new customers, which we all have to do, but it's eight times easier to sell more to an existing customer.

They'll buy more when they're treated better. So rather than always, I, I get concerned about these companies that are always growing their sales. I love growth. I don't like it at the expense of our existing customers. If we have a high churn rate, we gotta really watch that because it's, like you said, early in the show, we can only [00:38:00] sell to so many of our friends, relatives, and neighbors.

Eventually we run out of people to sell, and so why not just sell more? To the existing customers 'cause they're gonna pay more on top of it. So it's definitely a win-win, going that route.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah. And customer service is, we've all seen a dip in customer service. Um, and I think, I think that we're, we're attempting to get that back up.

Um, but. It's wildly important, um, in, in retaining well in growing your business so well Anyways, this has been an awesome conversation. Um, I know that you had mentioned that people can reach out to you on your website, positive polarity.com. Um, but you're, that information will also be in the show notes.

So if you are interested in, in, um, reaching out to Dave, getting his book, um. His, his contact information will be available, um, on the show notes. But, um, again, Dave, thank you so much for [00:39:00] joining me today.

Dave Molenda: Yes, thanks for all you're doing. I'm excited to be on your podcast and, uh, keep pushing forward because sales world needs what you're sharing, that's for sure.

Leighann Lovely: Well, thank you so much.

AccelerateGrowth45: This podcast is presented by Accelerate Growth 45, your one stop shop for business growth. Stop running your business like an operator, delaying wealth creation and sacrificing your time. Instead, focus on building a valuable business asset, creating lasting wealth and reclaiming the time you deserve.

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Robb Conlon: Thanks for joining us for Love Your Sales. For More, connect with Leanne on LinkedIn and be sure to subscribe to the show and leave us a rating in review. We'd love to hear what you think, looking for a way to take your sales process to the next level. [00:40:00] Visit [email protected] to find out more about how Leanne can take your organization to new Revenue Heights.

And be sure to join us next time for more great ways to love your customers so they love your [00:41:00] sales.

On this episode of Love Your Sales, Eva, a business growth strategist, discusses her journey of merging her strong business background with her passion for creative and sustainable practices in the leather industry. She emphasizes the importance of emotional intelligence, empathy, and authenticity in fostering long-term business growth and aligning personal values with business strategies. Eva talks about the challenges and importance of consistency and discipline for creatives transitioning to business roles. She also highlights the need for entrepreneurs to define their own success and build meaningful connections beyond monetary gains.

Contact Eva -

Email - [email protected]

Website - www.theworldinleather.com

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/evabarbarabongard/

Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 and the AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast – www.accelerategrowth45.com  

Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/

The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489

Ready to grow your business? Schedule a call with us today  - https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/discoverysalesleighann

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#sales #businessdevelopment #entrepreneur #entrepreneurship #selling #relashionships #customerexperience #podcast #loveyoursales #lastingrelashionships #salescareers #salesmanager #salesdevelopment #traininganddevelopment #leadershipdevelopment #salespodcast #salestraining

Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined by Eva, Barbara Bonard. Eva is a business growth strategist who helps entrepreneurs and leaders boost sales through emotional intelligence and purpose-driven strategies. She's passionate about showing how empathy and authentic connections not only build trust, but also drive sustainable long-term business growth. What she does through her coaching programs and workshop. [00:02:00] Like from heart to impact Building meaningful businesses is help entrepreneurs align their personal value with their business strategies, whether it's integrating sustainable practices, fostering empathy in leadership, or supporting emotional health in the workplace.

Her goal is to help people build businesses that thrive from the inside out. I absolutely love that Eva. So you are, um, not only, you know, a obviously a, a coach, um, a, a consultant. You also are a business owner yourself with, um, you know, a, a creative business, correct? Yes.

Eva Barbara: Yeah, yeah. I created a tool and, uh, it comes as a result of my 25 years of experience in the leather industry.

So I created the brand and I went for the, just the creative side of, uh. Something to life, physical product. [00:03:00]

Leighann Lovely: That's awesome. So welcome to the show, and I'm really excited about this conversation because you and I were just having, you know, before we hit the record button, we were talking about, um, you know, the difference between a creative versus a, a real true salesperson.

And so I, I kind of wanna revive this conversation that we were having. Because there are certain traits that a salesperson has to have and certain traits that a creative has, and I'd love to talk about the differences in those two things, um, that you've experienced and. How each one of those, you know, leans into those and, you know, finds their, their true passion and purpose, but how each one of those different things can hinder them when they try to cross lanes.

Eva Barbara: So, thank you. Thank you for, thank you for the.[00:04:00]

To chair. So my, the, my story comes in with, uh, I created twi. I come with a very strong background in business development, business, uh, international negotiations and all that. So, but I had a 25 years of experience in the industry on the leather industry, and I saw also. That's where my passion comes for sustainability because there was this, this, uh, movement against the leather that, that, that was happening because of the animals and all that.

And, uh, we, people were losing focus of what? It's leather and it's just a recycle. I mean, it's, uh, using the byproduct of the food industry. So that's where my sustainability enters. And, and I'm just going a little bit on, on the steps that I, that why I am so passionate about all these. And, um, so I enter in the sustainable, uh, sustainable practices, uh, just, uh, as the leather industry has been doing it together with a, the issue is that you [00:05:00] gotta have a good communication.

To approach that. So, um, as I was create, as I was doing that, I wanted to create something unique, and that's where I enter into the creative part of, uh, uh, eh, and I wanted to create something different, not just a simple letter. I mean, it's not as simple. It's quite difficult. It's not simple at all, but not another leather accessories.

And I wanted to go to. What is going on in the walls? Because for me, um, I love to see the walls and calls also because here's where my, my empathy enters and my sensitivity because when, whenever I enter to a place, if it invites me or not, invites me to even have a business with them. So that's where I wanted to bring these creative part of, uh, bring the leather, which is a sustainable.

Into the creative part, and that's where I enter into the world. So I found myself as a very driven, uh, business [00:06:00] person, negotiation international into a complete different world that it's a creative. So I have to, in five years that I did it, I have to kind of. Get myself used to the, the world of creating, of, of being a creator, uh, of physical products.

So, um, it is two different stories and I have to even train myself into be more creative, um, right. But I see how, uh, when, uh, you are creator, there's a, a. A challenge to be able to bring together with the business side. Mm-hmm. And I had, I had the opposite because for me it's all driven and it's all, boom, boom, boom, boom.

But as I was creating the products and as I in that, so I have to re. Um, train my mind. So, and the truth is that after all this [00:07:00] exercise of being a, from a business, being a creator, my business ground is calling me back. And I just love to make the sales, I love the fast pace of that is needed in, in that world.

Right.

Leighann Lovely: And, and to your point, it's, it's, it's hard. It's really hard. You know, I, I'm somebody who, I, I love art. I love to be able to sit down and, and I'm not great at it. Let me, let me just promise this by saying, you know, like I'll sit down and I paint with my seven year olds. So I'm not saying that I'm, I'm a, a true art, like true artist.

I'm talking about like, I. I'll sit down and I like to, you know, dabble in stuff and you can lose yourself in that, right? You can, you can lose yourself in the design, the creation of something that can just kinda wipe away the world, like you really just can. One hour can seem like. A minute and all of a sudden [00:08:00] you're there for five hours doing something and you're like, what?

Wait, what do you mean? Five hours has gone by? Because those true creative minds just really can get hyper-focused and time will pass without even they, they won't even realize it. Right. Whereas a sales minded person. There and, and again, I've lived and breathed in, in the world of business development, of sales, of relationship building, of, that's, that's where I, that's my professional life.

That's where I've, you know, spend the majority of my time, right. We spend the majority of our time at work, um, and it's a fast pace. Everything is moving quickly. Everything is speeding past you all of the time where you're not sitting in this serene. Quiet, calming, creative space. You're sitting in this like everything [00:09:00] is racing past you.

And if somebody, if somebody calls you and says, Hey, I wanna buy your product, it's not a I'll get back to you when I get back to you. It's a, you need to get back to that person right now, or they're gonna move on to the next, the next person and say, Hey, I wanna buy your product because we live in an instant gratification world.

Eva Barbara: Yes. And one of the things, you know, what I find is why we get lost as creator, because I can talk to you as a business person and I can talk to you as a creator and maker or however you or cra uh, however you wanna call it. It's because, uh. And this is where my emotional intelligence enters, and that's what I've been learning in all these five, six years.

And anxiety. The antidote for anxiety is to create something so.

When we are emotion very sensitive [00:10:00] or when we are very attuned to what is going on empathic to what is going on in the world, we get overwhelmed with everything. So, and until that for us is to create and we get. You can get lost. Yes. Five hours, seven hours in my store. Is it creating one thing and from one I wanna create something else.

So that's where it's hard to combine both. But, um, but I, I like the, uh, the emotional and, uh, and it was until I learned that. The antidote for anxiety for everything was creative. Create being, create something, make something. Mm-hmm. I said, oh, it's not, I wanna justify myself, but, but it does, you get lost in that.

Right? And that's how creators are so hyper-focused. Hyperfocused in one thing.

Leighann Lovely: Right. And that's, but now let's bring this down to a practical level, because there are a lot of people who are [00:11:00] creatives who start businesses. You started a business. Yes. But you, you have, you've taught yourself to have the ability, well,

you had both. You know, you kind of explained that, that you were, you know, a business driven person that also was a creator. That's, that's not typically, that's not a typical person or a typical ability, right? Yes. Most people are either on the creative side or on the logic side. Yes, there's, those usually are two completely different people and that's where we pose.

Or that's where the problem comes in, right? So I am person A, the creator. I start a business and I wanna make, or I want to be a marketing agency that just does, creates [00:12:00] pretty little designs for my clients. But how do I figure out how to sell that when. We were talking about this, um, sense of urgencies or the, um, that tenacity to go out and sell is just not a discipline that I'm typically used to.

Eva Barbara: You know, it all comes to awareness. You gotta be o you gotta be very conscious of what is happening with yourself and as you decide to become a business. So there's so many parts, and that's where you gotta, you gotta train yourself. You gotta be open. Because if we are not open and it's, it's much more than a mindset.

It is, it is a, a way of, uh, seeing things that you gotta.

Because I was part of a group where I'm communist because I was able to see, I was part of this [00:13:00] group where we were maybe like eight, and they were artists. And I did not consider myself an artist in the sense of, because maybe I did not go for, for school or I don't have 20 years unexperienced. But, but the truth is that I, I learned that I am, I am a creator because I came with an idea of making.

Leather art in frames, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Things that people have never seen many times, you know? So, and that's where I enter in this group. And it was that the, the, the coach, the person that I was teaching was teaching them to think very business driven. Where for me it was, I wanna get the, the, I wanna get their minds in the sense of being an artist.

It was right. I enter, I enter in a different situation than everybody else enters because we must, if you are a business owner, you must, sales is [00:14:00] fast driven. Mm-hmm. You gotta move fast and in the moment that somebody that can be a lead. Even Bris. It's not that you are overwhelming them, but you, you gotta n you gotta nurture, you gotta feed that relationship, right?

So that's where, that's where, uh, my, I enter in this world. And that's where I learned also to apply my, the emotional intelligence. Because see, we don't apply the empathy. I mean, uh, the, if we don't apply the, the tender. We must, you know what I mean? Uh, if we are not in that, in that, uh, state of saying things as they are and accepting them, receiving them and giving them, we can get in trouble.

Right. It's,

Leighann Lovely: we can have more

Eva Barbara: challenges.

Leighann Lovely: Yes. AB absolutely. And, you know, and it's. It's one thing to say, Hey, I'm gonna go to school and I'm gonna learn. Uh, and I keep going back to, you know, marketing. Um, but it, it's not just marketing. It's one [00:15:00] thing to just go to school and say, Hey, I'm gonna be in marketing, um, and work at a company.

You can stay as a creator and, and, you know, stay in that creation. I'm just gonna do this. But if you decide that you're gonna be an entrepreneur, you at that point have to learn to. Put on all of those hats. And I can tell you that when I'm, when I'm outside of my lane, when I am doing accounting, let's, I always go back to accounting because lemme tell you, when I have to go and reconcile my accounts, I'm like, Ugh, this is, you know, every minute feels like it's an hour.

'cause I'm like, I don't know how, what I'm doing. Um, it, it's, it's draining. It's absolute draining. So what I tell the people that I'm, that I'm working with is that get into a flow of, of doing [00:16:00] the activity eventually it will become easier and it'll become more natural so that it's not as hard. And then once your, your muscle movement becomes more natural. It'll become easier because we can teach ourselves to do things, but, and then at that point you're able to actually tweak that to be better.

Make yourself better at that. But sometimes it's about just the discipline of teaching yourself how to do something. So for those creatives who are like, oh, this is horrible. I don't wanna make these cold calls. I don't wanna have to do this. Sometimes it's just about the discipline of doing it, then tweaking it to do it well.

Eva Barbara: It's like everything, you know what I mean? Also, to become an artist, what do you have to do? I mean, [00:17:00] an artist becomes so unique and so, because they have done it so many times, right. You know, it's a, the repetitive task that makes the even better. So it's like that. And it is the same. It is the same situation in everything.

It's the consistency too. And I applied also right now to myself, the consistency of, uh, all those creators that are outside right now. Right now it's a world of creators, you know, uh, because of social media and what they do. Some of them are very successful because they were consistent. They were doing it every single day or whatever time they decided, and I think it's the biggest challenge for, for creators.

I, for, for me, has been one of the biggest challenge, just the consistency of, um, of doing the, the task, yeah. Is the discipline. It, it all comes to a discipline.

Leighann Lovely: Absolutely. And so when you work with your clients, and we're gonna kind of shift back [00:18:00] here for a second, when you work with your clients, um, on, on teaching them from, from heart to impact, building me meaningful businesses, um, and, and helping those entrepreneurs really align, you know, their, their personal value, their, um, you know, with their business strategy, where do you step in and start to assist them?

Eva Barbara: It's num number one. One because how many times have you heard someone that it's already making millions, but there's no happiness? You know, it happens. It does happen quite often. So because we are so driven, we were thought that in order, that's the normal, I'm talking that to, in order to be successful, you gotta have money or wealth, or you have to have power.

It doesn't mean that for me and I can talk personally for me, I learned what was success when I, until I lived [00:19:00] it and which was completely d very different. But it was because of my, my story as with of my family. My daughter comes, had a lot of medical issues that I've been sharing, um, uh, in my social media.

And uh, I learned that for me success was, is right now that she lives medicine free. You know, uh, so it becomes, but it's because I had 17 years of a kid that was struggling medically not knowing what was happening. You know what I mean? So that's where we have to start. Where, where is where you, what is.

What is for you success and where do you wanna see yourself? And, and it's not, and because I so business driven and that's where I enter because I, I also, my experience, um, is with, um, with, uh, international business and, and I bringing it up. I'm mentioning right now because in order to become a purpose business, you can apply emotional [00:20:00] intelligence and with my experience with all these international cultures, because you work with so many different ways, diverse.

Ways of thinkings, the history behind each country really matters when you're making business. Mm-hmm. So that were the, it helped me to dive into the emotional intelligence of the emotional of the, of the business. And once you get your emotional intelligence in a certain way, that's when you can say, okay, this is where I wanna go with my life.

This is where I wanna go with my business. Making money. Everyone wants to make money. We all wanna be wel wealthier. But,

Leighann Lovely: but you made a, a really profound comment is that everybody thinks that once I make X amount of money, I'm gonna be happy. Mm-hmm. And that's. That, that is completely un untrue. And I think that's [00:21:00] the carrot that everybody chases is, oh, as soon as I make this, it's gonna fix everything.

And you're like, wait, wait. Is that, is that the carrot you're chasing? Because you really need to sit down and ground yourself here. And really, you know, think about that is that if the, the pot of gold at the end is just a hundred percent focused on the money. Then you have a problem.

Eva Barbara: But you know, if it's money, it is okay.

But, but you have to see, once you get that goal, where are you going? You know? Okay. Right. Because that's what happens. You get the 10 million mark or whatever, million or whatever you amount you want. Now what? And so that's why you see many entrepreneurs right now helping others because they, they, their business, their money, it okay.

Makes them. Okay. They check. So,

but it doesn't make the [00:22:00] whole purpose or that they would like to have, and that's why I lean a lot in emotional intelligence because, uh, the awareness and the, the, the, we need so much to be empathic with ourselves. Let's start with, I don't even say with others. If we don't, every thing starts with ourself, right?

We cannot apply to others. Right. So it has to be with you

Leighann Lovely: and, and you made another valid point. A lot of entrepreneurs are helping others at this point because we had the rise of entrepreneurship. A couple years ago when nobody had jobs and everybody was like, well, what do I do? And they're like, well, I'm just gonna, I guess, work for myself.

And where, what can I offer to other people that other people, you know, the exchange of goods, the exchange of money for services? What, what right now will people pay me to do to help them along? And then you had all these little businesses popping up and now all of these little businesses that popped up we're so grateful that they were able to [00:23:00] survive a time when nobody.

Nobody was really working unless you were deemed an essential business. You know, and obviously I'm talking about the, you know, the whole pandemic. And, and so all of these little businesses in these communities of people are going, well, how can I help somebody else level up? And at the same time, myself, level up in a community of people who care about each other.

And that's where the empathy, that's where the, you know, end. In so many cases, they're, they're not just simply chasing again that pot of golds. They're actually just a community of small business people growing together. Yes. And at the end of that, we're not talking about being millionaires. We're talking about having a true, you know, community of people who care about each other.[00:24:00]

Lifelong friendships that were built for a purpose, and that purpose has to be defined, obviously, individually by each person. But I will tell you that a million dollars will not make me happy. A million dollars may wipe out all my debt, but at the end of the day, a million dollars is not going to make me happy if nobody has joined me on that journey.

It's simply just a lonely journey to a million dollars. And

Eva Barbara: yeah, that, and that's where, um, I, and overall, right now,

, we are in a moment that we gotta bring all of our expertise and also what is coming with ai. You know, uh, I mean, it's not the same that if myself, I interact with AI and I bring with some, with some information that it, it's [00:25:00] good for business development growth strategies, that if I'm creator and artist.

An artist, a painter comes and puts a something into the, that's where they say the prompting is so important. No, is the expertise of the people bringing it. Mm-hmm. You know, it's not about the prompt, it's about who is behind it. Right. Because I, or if I wanna create a, a piece of, and I saw it because I had early access to Dali Boo three years ago, and I was dealing with these incredible creators.

Unbelievable. The ones that are even supporting meta or supporting the Snapchat. Uh, and I was bringing something for an a, a draw a drawing. Mine was so awful, so bad, and they were bringing this. Out of your mind things. And that's where, that's where AI comes, you know what I mean? Right. So it's so important.

[00:26:00] And the only thing that the, and this is where I lean again, in emotional intelligence. The only thing that makes us unique in front of all those machines is our humanity. We gotta be more human than ever. And if we are not emotional intelligence, we will be about human telling, the, the machine what to do.

And so that's mm-hmm.

Leighann Lovely: I, I totally agree. I I absolutely agree on that and I would love to continue this conversation, but we are coming to time and you get your 32nd shameless pitch at this point. So if you want to promote yourself or somebody else, you are, um, go ahead and get your, um, get your, your 30 seconds in there.

Eva Barbara: Well, thank you so much for this and, uh, as I said, I am Eva, Barbara Bogart, and I love to, I help businesses to, to grow in international, international negotiations. I have that [00:27:00] experience and, uh, using purpose, uh, uh, emotional intelligence, uh, to get better negotiations and to get your purpose life.

Leighann Lovely: That's amazing.

Uh, thank you so much, Eva, for joining me today. Um, this has been an amazing conversation. Um, you truly are a, um, just a, a breath of fresh air. Um, you, you know, the way that you, you know, bring those two disciplines together. It's awesome. I loved talking with you today, so thank you so much.

In the latest episode of "Love Your Sales Podcast," Beatrice Gutknecht explores the importance of team integration in building lasting businesses. She emphasizes that companies engaging their teams effectively are more likely to thrive, especially as Gen Alpha and Gen Z emphasize trust and human presence in brands over logos and names. Beatrice discusses how relatability to a brand is crucial, highlighting that businesses fostering genuine human connections will stand out and endure over time.

Contact Beatrice

Email - [email protected]

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/beatricegutknecht

Website - https://www.badasserybyb.com

Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 – www.accelerategrowth45.com

Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/

The Brave Ones – Instrumental Version Song by Jan Sanejko - https://artlist.io/royalty-free-music/song/the-brave-ones/119489

Ready to grow your business? Schedule a call with us today  - https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/discoverysalesleighann

 Channel Subscribe link - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-O7W9DzaRv4waodQKCprIg?sub_confirmation=1

Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am joined today by Beatrice Gutknecht She is the Founder of Badassery by Bee . She's About taking seamlessly boring business and shaking up how they're seen inside out through practical strategies and actions to stand out, not 69 page documents, pretty design or templates. Beatrice, I'm so excited to have you join me [00:02:00] today.

Welcome to the show.

Beatrice Gutknecht: Thanks so much for having me on, Leighann, I appreciate it. I'm so excited about the conversation we're about to have.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah. So tell me a little bit more about your business and what you and how you, um, help people.

Beatrice Gutknecht: So basically I'm all about perception and breaking those unwritten rules in industries where we're just so used to following and looking to everybody else.

In the industry, especially when we get going, it's like, there's so much to do. You're like, Oh, you know, actually, what, what, what are they already doing? Let's just follow that. Like, we'll make it easier, but in a way that kind of makes you follow and be a little bit behind. So where I come in is to reposition you in a way where you're kind of leading your own way.

And often our way [00:03:00] that's it's earlier in the process. So you stand out and you're actually sticky in minds and you're proud about your brand.

Leighann Lovely: That's awesome. And in today's world, you have to, you have to be able to define your brand and yourself as something that is unique and different. Otherwise people, they're not paying attention.

Or, and I shouldn't say not paying attention because let me, let me rephrase that today's world we are bombarded with so much information and so many, um, loops and bings and so many things are happening that it's hard to grab somebody's attention in a way the information is retained. Exactly.

Beatrice Gutknecht: Exactly.

And even more so, the idea of a rebrand has just been [00:04:00] so. commercialized. It's like Valentine's Day and people like, you know, businesses are just like, Hey, so let's, we're going to rebrand, but it's basically just change up the colors, change up the logo, change up maybe some wording, but the real rebrands is what happens from inside out, right?

Like you're making sure that the entire team has the buy in because otherwise it's not. Going to work. It's not going to stick. It's a, you know, if we're talking about the Twitter to X shifts, right? I see you there going, yes. There is no alternative for tweeting, right? They didn't do it. They didn't think of it.

It's just, they put that surface, but using. Using the platform, using the software, it's still exactly the same. Maybe even you're dealing with customer service, it's [00:05:00] still going to be the exact same. So what's the point?

Leighann Lovely: Other than that, it's broken now.

Beatrice Gutknecht: Exactly. It's like surface level and. Real, like if you're going to rebrand, I would recommend more like, Hey, let's have a look at a refresh,

Leighann Lovely: you know, let's, let's talk about that because this, this is wildly, I find it really interesting because yes, I could very easily put, you know, stamp a new logo on my brand.

I could, you know. And companies do this all the time where they're like, Hey, it's, and stamping a new logo, let's make something crystal clear. Rebranding is not just simply putting a new picture on. old logo was. I mean, yes, that is, yeah, technically you're rebranding,

 but when I [00:06:00] think of that, , , that's not, you're not, that's, there's so much more to it.

So let's get into the, , the meat and potatoes of what you are talking about. You're, you're talking about almost a mind. A shift, a mindset change. And you're talking about bringing in the team. You're talking about bringing in other people's buy in in order to do that. So how do you begin this process?

Why do you begin this process? And what does it look like on the back end? And I guess let's start with the why. Why do we do this?

Beatrice Gutknecht: I was just about to start on the why because You know, everyone talks about there's, there's the sales and marketing silos, right? That that's quite frequently talked about that there is a friction which leads to a lot of issues, but I would almost [00:07:00] push on that more that there are business silos within all the departments.

So say, for example, if you, you have someone on customer service, They have someone walk into the showroom and they're like, Oh, you know, how did you find us? What are your, like, what's been going on? They will get a hell of a lot of information, which they'll just say like, okay, this is part of my job. Like I've noticed 10 other people like this over the past week that have had similar problems, but they won't pass that information on to the marketing, to the sales.

To anyone else, because that's just part of like, Hey, you know, I'm just employed to get people to be here for this nine hours. That's it.

Leighann Lovely: Right.

Beatrice Gutknecht: So the, how I do it is going deep in terms of [00:08:00] understanding what you've done thus far as a business, where you want to be going that direction and really pulling on all of those strings to like, Understand, you know, what you want to stand for, what, say, for example, from your team's perspective, how, how do they see you represented?

Like what, what are the values, how are you positioned to them? Right? Because if you're involving them in their, in that process, you're also going to get ideas from them, right? Of how things could be worded, Hey, like I could be saying this in my sales calls. Or like, if marketing is listening to that, they're like, Oh, like that would go really well with this campaign and have everyone on board.

And it is really building out that strategy from that internal space, like, okay, directly [00:09:00] with the founder, the owner and CEO, et cetera. And here's our vision, finding that position about you're doing something already in your business, which is different to everyone else. So it's honing in on that

Leighann Lovely: and it, this goes to, you know, the same thing that good, marketing companies do that they that they're attempting to do.

But again, you know, I see marketing companies come in and they're like, okay, we're going to do your marketing, but they're not, they're not always grabbing all of the information from, , and it's not necessarily that they're not trying. Sometimes they run up against, you know, okay. XYZ company and working with you and they are only working with maybe three contacts at that company and at that company, those three contacts are the owner, the marketing director, or if it's a large company, they may have a marketing director.

And if not, then it's [00:10:00] the, you know, the owner, the salesperson, the, . The second in command, whatever it might be , and they're only getting the information from those three people, which means they're going to build their marketing strategy based on how those people see the business, which means that they're missing out on the people who are actually boots on the ground, who are living in and breathing the real world of what the clients, the customers, the prospects are all saying.

Yeah. About the business, the experience, the customer experience, the customer journey, the prospect journey, all of that information is truly what drives interest, what drives business. And that's where I see businesses go wrong because. Those are the people who are actually the ones determining whether or not they're going to buy, they're going to refer [00:11:00] somebody, they're going to buy more and blah, blah, blah.

And you know, you're shaking your head like, yep, I get it. And yet I see this repeated over and over and it's like, okay, yes, owner. Or CEO or CFO, I know that you know what your business does, but you're not in it every day talking to, and if the flow of information starting with the janitor and the receptionist who will be cleaning the floor while customers are walking through and overhearing what they're saying.

Very well could have the most crucial information about your business, but you're not opening the door to hear what they have to say about it. And that right there is probably one of the most. Valuable insights that you could, that you could get, [00:12:00] you know, and here's something that I, you know, as a sales professional, as somebody who has sold, I can't even remember, I don't even know the number of, of different types of products that I have sold now.

I regularly go out and still allow random people to pitch me on their product. And it still, to this day, drives my husband crazy. He's like, don't don't walk over to that person. They're just going to pitch you. And I'm like, yeah, that's the point. I do that because I want to see what's still happening in the real world.

If I isolate myself from being pitched, from being sold, I'm losing that education piece. I'm losing what tips and tricks and hacks are now all happening in the real world, and I'm, I'm not educating myself to what's really going on. And I'm [00:13:00] becoming one of those owners that doesn't know what's happening in my own business.

It's the same. Yeah. And it's the same thing with now the rise of, of AI, , the rise of all of these new tools. If you're not constantly educating yourself, you're, you're going to fall behind. And to your point, you want to put these businesses in front of the competition. You want to try to get them doing something that's going to be sticky to you know, to the new possible buyer

Beatrice Gutknecht: or even be considered earlier in that buying process.

Right. Sometimes I see a lot of businesses because everybody else in the industry is so used to like, okay, we've been, we've always been doing this. Perhaps there's [00:14:00] something that you can give, you know, okay, there, everybody else is doing this, let's give up that part so we can lean into this part that they're maybe have a weak weakness in, or maybe this, an aspect earlier on in that process that we can lean in on and be considered even before they're, they're working with everybody else, you know, so say, for example, with one of my clients.

Their architectural hardware, where usually the industry only contacts them after the house is built, after the door frames are there, right? But say, for example, if the end client, one of these amazing, fancy openings, you know, just to come into the house and the house has already been [00:15:00] built, they might not have had that.

So what we did was position them way earlier in that process to talk to the designers to be help

Leighann Lovely: to

Beatrice Gutknecht: them.

Leighann Lovely: Interesting. Right. And, and now they're, you're opening up the door for them to be able to offer so much more and have a larger market share of business to be seen

Beatrice Gutknecht: differently. You know, it's almost like you're creating your own category, but what I encourage is Both, both elements, you know, if you're creating your own category, it needs to be grounded in the known, right?

Like the same thing as we go back to the going from horse carriages to cars, right? They didn't go, Hey, buy our car, buy our horseless couch, the no one. So stick with the [00:16:00] known and then adjust interesting

Leighann Lovely: I love that. And that goes to

 I'm trying to rephrase this right, that, that is creating. A path for people to fully understand the value that you offer because now you're following that path of, Oh, okay, I, I, I know exactly what the horse and carriage does. So now you're telling me that, Oh, Oh, I don't need the horse anymore.

But if you were to just jump and I'm following your example, just jump to the car. People are like, I don't know what that does.

Beatrice Gutknecht: Yeah. A lot of the inventions failed the first time they came out. Because it's like, I don't know what this is. Like, it was too much of a jump. Right. And that's why I really, like, I put it in my headline.

It's not about having a knee [00:17:00] jerk reaction. It's not about a sudden virality. And that's why I have such a big issue with the Jaguar Ray brand. Because It's, it's not the fact that they didn't include the car. It's, it's not about the colors. It's the fact that they lost everything that they stand for, that they built over decades, building that trust that in itself is gone.

They could have, you know, had a sub brand for that, you know, another generation or reached out to like, okay, how can we make this relevant? So you're staying in the known, you have the existing brand, people know that, but okay. How do we make that relevant for now? Let's work with, um, millennials, Gen Zers who align with that.

Leighann Lovely: That's really [00:18:00] interesting. And you use the word relevant, and I like that because a lot of companies don't,

they don't realize that, especially in the manufacturing space, that if they don't shift, that they are not going to remain relevant, and I'm not talking about their product necessary, I'm , I'm talking about The way that they do business, the way that they market business, the way that they sell business is that if you don't make those shifts on a regular basis, that they will not be, they will not be seen, they will not be, and let me give an example.

I walked into a manufacturing company that, this is years ago, that I was helping staff. And I said, you know, I was really having trouble finding your website. And she said, that's because we don't have one. And this was probably seven, eight years ago. And I said, you, you don't have probably [00:19:00] 10 years ago, actually.

I said, you don't have a website. And she goes, yeah, we don't, we don't need one. I said, well, well, you, what do you mean you don't need one? And she goes, all of our, all of our buyers, everybody that we sell our product to, they were, we only sell two items and. We're pretty much a niche, like we're one of two companies in the country that sell this product.

And I went, okay, that's great, but a website is not designed only to sell product. It is also to sell people on coming to work for you. It is also to create a legacy business that one day when you retire and somebody else takes over, or when somebody else gets smart to how to create [00:20:00] your product better.

And I went down a long list of all of these things. And she was like, Yeah, I don't, I don't think we need one. Business will not be relevant in a couple of reasons. They're not going to be able to continue to recruit people to work for them because in today's world, everybody, before they do anything with the business.

They want to know that they're a real boy and I use this term all the time, you know, are you a real boy? Let me go look. Oh, you're not online. You're probably not a real boy. I mean, that's, that is in today's world. That's what creates the beginning of being relevant and If we don't lean into, you know, and now it's, it's even further than that.

Oh, you have a website. Great. Okay. Where are you on LinkedIn? Where are you on Tik TOK? Where are you on Twitter? Where are you on [00:21:00] X? Where are you on? That's where everybody wants to gather their information about who they are. And I'm not saying that, Oh, unless you have an online presence, you don't

exist. But it, it matters. It absolutely matters for multiple different things. And in some industries, you, it can be just a simple, like, yep, here's who we are. Here's what we do. Doesn't, you don't sell online. Great. But at least having some, explanation because the younger generation, that's their security of, yep, this company exists.

I'll go interview there. Great. But that's our security blanket to know that that is a real, that company or that place or that person is a real person. I mean, let me ask you, Beatrice, when was the last time that you met somebody or that you talked to somebody that you didn't immediately go and look them up somewhere [00:22:00] online?

Beatrice Gutknecht: Never. I, before every call, I will go and like stalk them and try to find out, like I even started it. And this has been. Such a time saver. I've gotten AI. I'm using perplexity. I don't know if it like helps with pro, but I'll be like, okay, what can you tell me about XYZ person from XYZ company? And it'll just drop from everywhere.

And I'm like, yes. Obviously you need to check, but

Leighann Lovely: right, right. Oh, AI is, is wildly amazing when it comes to gathering of information and ridiculously, confident, but very, some very often, you know, inaccurate in its confidence, depending on the inaccurate information that exists on the web.

Beatrice Gutknecht: I mean, that being said, it will look through anything that mentions you.

It doesn't matter [00:23:00] how long it's been. So that's another thing that you need to be careful of. Right? Yes.

Leighann Lovely: Put a naked picture of yourself online and expect that it's going to disappear in 10 years. You

Beatrice Gutknecht: know, it will pick up those things. Like if you write up articles, and that's why I do kind of. Be like, uh, cautious or aware of how much you, how big of pivots that you make.

I always say , okay, do some pivots instead of completely rebranding into something fresh. Cause that way it's like mini moves, mini moves, mini moves.

Leighann Lovely: So let's, let's refocus here. I went off on kind of a tangent about the whole real boy and you know, so let's, when you engage in. [00:24:00] You know, working with a company, you start with working with, and typically who, who is the first person that you start working with at that company?

Beatrice Gutknecht: So usually it's the, the business owner or principal because you know about what you built.

Leighann Lovely: And then how long typically does that process take in order to pull in? You know, these, you know, everybody and gather that information. And then, you know, what does that buy in look like at the end?

Beatrice Gutknecht: So it is ongoing, you know, at every step we try to make sure that we're implementing, how can we say, for example, at the beginning where we're talking about, okay.

What's, what's your vision, mission, et cetera. How can we, what does that look like in play? So that they, they can start putting that, be it in social media or start talking to [00:25:00] their sales and marketing team. So it's not about like waiting to kind of put it all out. Like, Hey, you know, this is, this is our road, Brad.

Um, it is, there's little changes. And yeah, it does take time and it is a lot of work. So I often am working with people seven months plus to get it a not only just that strategy clear, but the implementation and then the accountability because. We have so much going on and I see a lot of strategists who are just like, Hey, so here is our, uh, 69 page document.

Have fun with that, which we both know nobody's going to read that, right? It's about making sure, like, how, [00:26:00] how does this look like with your sales and marketing? Probably let's, let's bring them together on like a zoom meeting, have like everyone talk about it. Get rid of those silos, increase, like, people being able to put forward their thoughts without like some kind of backlash.

Right?

Leighann Lovely: Right.

Beatrice Gutknecht: And it is understanding, like, the dynamics. Maybe some people are shy. So what if we, we put it as like a anonymous, like, Hey, let's, let's put Some thoughts in, in a jar to start off with, or maybe like start off with one on one. Hey, what do you think about this? Then go to the next person. Like,

Leighann Lovely: and that's sad, like, and I hope, I think that some of this is starting to slowly go away in, in certain industries.

You know, I was talking to a woman the other night where I asked her, I said, would you, would you do this video? Like thing and she goes, I can't. And I said, what do you mean? She goes, well, I work in the nursing industry and they get really weird about us [00:27:00] putting our faces out there. I'm like, what? Like, that's terrible.

Right. I'm like, you're, you're just doing a review for something that you do. And she's like, yeah. And if we're on social media, they don't want us representing, you know, anything that's, you know, personal to her. Cause it might look bad. And I'm like, that's horrible that you still are in a. in a discipline or working in a job where they're saying, no, you can't do a, a refer or like a review or a reference, and this is for a pool league.

And I'm like, you, you can't go and say, Hey, this is like a really awesome thing that I do. I really enjoy it. But I think that more and more companies are being more accepting of feedback from all levels. Especially the smaller ones. Some of the bigger, huge ones are just like, you know what, just do what I tell you.

I don't want to hear it. Like, we already [00:28:00] have the plan in place. And that's sad. Um, some of the, like those smaller to midsize businesses are like, yeah, I'd like to hear if we can improve, I want to hear what, and, and we'll take it into consideration. I'm not saying that they're going to take, they, they can't, they can't take everybody's suggestion, but you know, there are some really great ideas out there and more and more systems in place for them to take feedback.

Beatrice Gutknecht: And I would say those companies who are actually bringing the team into the play. Are going to be the ones that outlast the companies who don't because if we're looking at Gen Alpha, Gen Z, what we were talking about before is the brands that have that human presence that build the trust through that, that will be the ones that they choose, [00:29:00] not the logo or the name, et cetera.

It's like, Hey, you know, can I relate to this brand? And it's those businesses that are going to stand out and last,

Leighann Lovely: right? And those businesses that people are going to want to work at, I think that we're going to see a shift in, younger generations looking to work at small to midsize businesses that meet their goals because they're being treated better and they're willing to give up these big bloated salaries.

For the work life balance and the treatment like yeah, I could go work at Nike and make a maybe 80, 000 salary, or I could work at this small to midsize business and make a 70, 000 salary, but also be treated better, have more of a work life balance, be heard, and those are important things, really important things.

, [00:30:00] and I think that the younger generation is seeing that. Like, hey, I'm willing to give up a little bit right now. So that I can leave every day and not feel like I'm doing something wrong by leaving and have vacation. Be respected, be heard, be seen. I mean, I left corporate with a big bloated salary to start my own business because I wanted all of those things, which is funny because now I work three times as much and I'm working towards having the work life balance back.

But that being said, I regularly ask the people who work for me, like, what can I do better to support you? What do you think that we can do better to support our clients? And I hear them, I listen to them and then we implement because I want them to be a part of it. I don't want them to just do what I [00:31:00] say.

Beatrice Gutknecht: Exactly. And leaning into that, that's, that's another big part that I see missing is HR bringing in that brand strategy. Most people like most businesses don't even think about that. It's like, Hey, are we hiring people that align with these base values? I don't need people copying and saying the same thing, but the values need to align, right?

So that that way when you're having these conversations, and when you're getting everyone in board on board, they're like, Oh, you know, I get that. But, and then they're also thinking their own like direct like, Hey, maybe I can say it like this, and having that group of people. That's cool. And then they're kind of.

Bouncy off each other. And this idea is growing. And like you said, maybe you're not taking all of these ideas, but there'll be a hell of a lot of good ideas there.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah, [00:32:00] absolutely. So we are coming to time. Um, and I could continue to have this conversation for the next two hours, but, this is where you get your 32nd shameless pitch.

So go for it.

Beatrice Gutknecht: Yay. So, I mean, we've, we've covered a lot, but. Basically, when you're spending a lot of money on your advertising, on your SEO, marketing sales, et cetera, and it isn't producing any results, perhaps it is time to look at your brand strategy and go from inside out to reposition your brand and have it stand out and have it be sticky in minds, in which case, You can reach out to me on the show notes.

I believe the details will be,

Leighann Lovely: yep, absolutely. We will have your contact information on the show notes. , but, , if somebody does want to reach out to you, where is the best place that they can do that? [00:33:00]

Beatrice Gutknecht: There's a couple of places. If you want weekly tips, I highly recommend the badass mob newsletter, which is on my website.

You can sign up there. Every week, I go into a lot more detail than I do in regular content. Otherwise, I am very active on LinkedIn and the Art of Branding podcast.

Leighann Lovely: Awesome. Again, Beatrice, thank you so very much for joining me today. It's been an awesome conversation.

Beatrice Gutknecht: Likewise. Thank you for having me.

Join Leighann Lovely on this episode of the Love Your Sales Podcast as she hosts Ari Milner, a technology and cybersecurity expert with over 15 years of experience. Ari shares insights on how small and medium-sized businesses can protect their digital assets and secure their systems in an ever-evolving cyber landscape. They discuss the critical importance of cybersecurity, practical solutions for IT management, and the intricacies of dealing with modern cyber threats. With real-life anecdotes and expert advice, this episode is a must-listen for entrepreneurs aiming to safeguard their business from digital threats. Tune in now to learn how to build a robust IT infrastructure and ensure your business's security and continuity.

Contact Ari

Email - [email protected]

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arimilner/

Website - planitinnovate.com

Special Thank you to our Sponsors – Genhead – www.genhead.com and Accelerategrowth45 – www.accelerategrowth45.com

Robb Conlon – Intro and outro – Westport Studio - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/

Ready to grow your business? Schedule a call with us today  - https://api.leadconnectorhq.com/widget/bookings/discoverysalesleighann

Leighann Lovely: Welcome to another episode of Love Your Sales. I am thrilled today. I am joined by Ari Milner. , a small business technology and cyber security expert with over 15 years of experience. As the founder of Planned IT, he helps business secure and streamline their IT web.

And compliance needs all while working entirely remotely from Mexico city. Ari is also the president of the center of natural medicine in Portland, a [00:02:00] clinic founded by his father in 1991. Now managing the clinic with his brother as their father battles Parkinson's.

Ari is deeply committed to helping small businesses, whether through technology or healthcare operate efficiently and securely. Please join me in welcoming Ari. I am really excited to have this conversation with you. You and I talked previously, obviously, and, um, yeah, I'm just, I'm really thrilled to have you join me.

Ari Milner: Yeah, thanks so much for having me on.

Leighann Lovely: So why don't you tell us a little bit more, You know, what I absolutely love is starting your own business. There are so many nuances as an entrepreneur that we do not think about in the beginning. You know, we're like, okay, I've got my laptop. I'm armed with, you know, this product I'm armed with this widget.

I'm going to go out and people are just going to show up and buy my stuff. [00:03:00] There are so many layers that as you all of the sudden become a real. company, a real boy, as I like to say, or a real girl, , that we don't think about. And one of those is security.

Ari Milner: Yeah, security, I. T. Totally. This is before plan. I.T. I had a computer repair shop in in Portland, , where I'm from. And that's where I got into doing the business. I. T. managed services and, uh, started supporting businesses there. Um, going on site and, , setting up networks, securing networks, , and the landscape has changed so much in the last, uh, 9 years of doing plan I.

that the cyber security needs have gotten. , way more complex, and there's just so much that [00:04:00] you really can't do on your own as a small business anymore. Like, it used to be that you could just go by, like, the Norton or McAfee and you'd be fine. Right? But those days are long gone now and like, 1 example is.

In gosh, it was, I think about 2018, 2019, we rolled out a Sentinel one as a security service option for our clients. And it's a, it's a service that is incredible with how it's actually using AI to Combat cyber threats, and that that's probably the first product in our stack that really had AI as an important component of it.

Leighann Lovely: Interesting. And you're right. The landscape has drastically changed. I remember I was actually talking to my husband and I and we were watching a show from the 90s and there was this, you know, like. Big [00:05:00] huge computer sitting in like the family, you know room of the of the show the house that we were watching and it's like this Gigantic computer.

I'm like you remember that do you remember when you had? That huge computer the dial up you weren't worried about somebody Hacking in and stealing your information, you know the games that I would run home from school I'm like, I'm gonna play a computer game and it was the little the little line that got bigger as it ate The dot on the screen, you weren't, yeah, the snake, is that what it's called?

The snake game, you know, it was a DOS prompt in order to get into it. I don't know if, you know, my daughter's not even going to know what DOS prompt means and I, you know, I'd call my mom up and be like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to play this game. I can't remember what's the DOS prompt to play this game.

And then I'd have to hang up with her and try it because now I have to use the phone line to dial into the internet. That was not. [00:06:00] Security was not a thing,

Ari Milner: right? Yeah, totally. And that's like, reminds me of, , like you mentioned doing that back in the day where you and every end user had to do those kinds of prompts, but that's something that we're still doing as it professionals writing scripts to run in the background, to automate processes.

Um, and that's also what. I've been incredible at doing in the last couple of years with the large language models where it's a great tool for doing scripts and automation, but all of those tools are being used by the bad guys too. Right? So it's, it's a, you know, a tug of war, I guess, between who can, who can stay ahead, uh, in order to.

You know, protect systems or attack systems.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah, that's that's totally true what what the good guys are doing. The bad guys are doing equally as fast to try to [00:07:00] to basically beat each other out on. Well, how quickly can I break into the system? Well, then that you gotta how quickly can I stop them from breaking into the system?

Wildly interesting, completely like, I'm glad I don't have to do that part. So let's, let's talk about how that has changed and how it has changed when you talk with people about the importance. I can sit here all day long and be like, Oh, Ari, are you telling me that I'm going to have to pay you X, Y, Z a month to keep me secure?

What I mean, come on, really? I'm a small business owner. Are people really going to try to come after me? Like, I don't have anything that they need.

Ari Milner: Yeah, totally., you may think you don't have something valuable, but even just like your contact list in your CRM or in your email client. Like, any of that can totally be used against you and your clients.

Um, your [00:08:00] system could be attacked by ransomware, is a newer, more common threat, that, where you, just locks you out of all your systems, so then your business can't function. Do you have, like, insurance for business interruption? Do you have backups to get it back? Cause even if you pay the ransom, there's many, many cases where, You still don't get anything back after paying the ransom.

It's a, you're, you're negotiating with a cyber criminal, right? So, what are the chances that they're going to even follow through and then even, even once you do pay, say, you get it back, they still have a copy of your data. They could still do nefarious things with it. Right? So, yeah, it the whole industry 20 years ago, um, was mostly like, you're saying break fix.

It wasn't managed services. It was I've got a problem. My system goes down. I'm going to call an it guy. They'll come out and fix it. Um, they may be able to remote in that was [00:09:00] pretty rare back then. Right? Um, but you would get, like, a bill for the fix 1 time, but that just doesn't work for cyber security because we need to be constantly monitoring systems constantly protecting systems.

Um, like, I get alerts all the time for my clients, like, getting, um. Sign is blocked from China or Russia or wherever people trying to get in. There's a lot. That's probably happening to you right now. And you just don't know because you're not monitoring it. Right? And that's that's where an it partner, like, me would come in and make sure you've got the policies in place to make sure that even though they're knocking at the door regularly that that nobody's going to be able to break in.

Leighann Lovely: That's so scary. That's, it's, well, okay, so here's a perfect example of actually something that just happened to me this weekend. I went, I took a little mini vacation. I used my credit card, um, [00:10:00] at a little kiosk in an arcade really quickly, just, you know, reloaded the arcade credits for the girls to go and play games, right?

What a waste of money. And actually, no, because they were entertained. You know, I get to see big smiles. They're entertained. They're playing arcade games. I slipped it into my pocket. We then went home afterwards. I then had an engagement where I had to go out that later on that night and I opened up my wallet.

My credit card's not in there and I thought, oh my God, where's my credit card? You know, now you do the okay, where was the last time I used it? Oh, it was at the arcade. Okay, put it in my pocket. It must have fallen out of my pocket because that sweatshirt now has found its way into the laundry and I'm calling my, yeah, my credit card.

Did you find my credit card? So the great thing about, you know, credit cards nowadays that everybody has apps for them. You could literally pull it up on your phone. You can turn off your credit card with a click of a button. That's great. Not, you know, back in the day you had to track down a phone number.

You got to call them. I [00:11:00] was able to turn it off just like that. But that fear for that moment is I lost it at the arcade. Somebody picked it up. Somebody used it. And now I've, the numbers out there, right? You're talking about an unknown fear of somebody literally just logging into my system and my system houses.

All of my credit cards, possibly my client's credit cards, all of my client's passwords to anything that I may need to access in order to support them and being that I'm a mark sales and marketing company, I'm in sometimes their domains, I'm in their, the back end of their websites I'm in and all of a sudden that crushing feeling of, Oh my God, uh, they're not stealing my information.

Just they could be stealing somebody [00:12:00] else's information and I would be responsible for that.

Ari Milner: Yeah, totally. And there's even like, , depending on your location, there's different local laws for like, breach notifications. When you get hacked, then you have to publicly tell your, your clients and report it to the state and in many states.

And there's a certain different thresholds and windows for that and such. But you're, you're totally responsible at that level. And that's where, , not just cyber security services come in, but, , like mitigation services, like an insurance, , our, our latest service, we've just rolled out this year is a cyber warranty that.

Is actually a 3rd party vendor who's connected to our systems and, , can provide a financial guarantee of up to half a 1, 000, 000 dollars a year in coverage because they're saying, yes, plan. [00:13:00] It is covering our clients and doing best practices. Right? So there's those kinds of. Levels of protection that you can get, , in case an incident like this happens.

And, and frankly, it isn't really like a, an, if it happens, it's a, when it happens, , who are you going to be dealing with? Who's going to be your partner on your side? Right? When something like that happens, how much are they going to be able to have mitigated it? Stopped it, you know, kick them out, , before any real damage could get done.

Right.

Leighann Lovely: Right. Very interesting. , and let me just promise this by say, I don't keep credit cards in my system specifically because of that, because I don't know what I don't know, like, I don't

Ari Milner: like, like you said, credit cards are very protected. Right. But But a lot of payments now are happening, like with ACH or, you know, [00:14:00] just electronic bank transfers that don't have that level of security or insurance that a credit card has.

Right? So. Yeah. Right. It can be scary.

Leighann Lovely: And that's where, you know, it's like, okay, what information do you want to house on your system? Because then you become more and more liable for X, Y, Z. So what do you think the biggest hurdle in your, you know, sales process when you're talking with these small. To midsize companies what do you think for them is the hardest to digest when it's talking about?

And this really is about the sales process like. Because sitting here and talking to you, I'm going, okay, well, fear will drive me to go. Yep. I need you. Some, some companies are just like, yeah, no, no, I'm good. I'm good. I don't need that. You're, you're just trying to take my money. What do you say to that? How do you overcome that objection?

Ari Milner: Yeah, [00:15:00] there's a few sales tactics we use in in I. T. For that specifically, , my personal favorite is when I go into a sales call with, like, a new prospect who I'm not already working with. I'm focusing entirely on. What their pain points are right? And I'm going to sell them on the minimum package that gets them what they need.

So then we have a relationship and we can build up from there. Right? I can always upsell on more cyber security later. Right? , if they're not seeing the value at the moment, and then the tactic to to sell them on it later is we actually have. , a waiver that's like, okay, we recommended that you buy this cyber security service, you know, or this backup service or whatever you're opting to not do that.

We're not liable for that in case something goes wrong. Right. So separate [00:16:00] from all my general agreements that I have with all my clients, if they say no to something that I'm recommending that's best practices, I'm going to be like, okay, you're saying no sign this, please. Or we're not going to be able to continue working together.

Right. Right. So, and that that works probably 3 quarters of the time. Right. They're like, oh, okay. Yikes. Maybe I will buy this.

Leighann Lovely: Well, and it's, and it's funny because it comes down to the same thing of. Hey, here's your house. Here's the insurance we recommend. And I've, I've gone around and around in circles with my, my insurance agent on, and she makes the recommendations and then we go down the list, right?

You know, she's like, well, I recommend umbrella insurance and I recommend it be X amount. And then she'll go, and here's why, because if you have a total loss, blah, blah, blah. And then I go, oh yeah, I should definitely go with the recommended amount. Because now [00:17:00] you, now you understand what the point is, you understand the why behind it.

And now that I'm, now that I've been talking with you and I, and I know other people in, in this, you know, in the managed service. arena, you understand the why, , and you kind of go, right, now I get it. Like, if you're an outsider looking in going, yeah, nobody's ever going to hack me. I'm a one person show.

Doesn't necessarily mean, especially if you have no security whatsoever, you're an easy, you're easy pickings.

Ari Milner: With AI and automations. Now, a lot of the bad guys are doing stuff where they're just trying to break in everywhere with the easy method and whatever they can get in and grab it.

You know, it takes them nothing relative to breaking into a, , a bigger corporation. So they'll, they'll totally take that and run with whatever they can get.

Leighann Lovely: Oh, I, and I've gotten what I think in my career now, um, [00:18:00] I had. , it was an email of, this is an oldie. I'm sure that many people out there are going to go, Oh yeah, that one's happened to me.

Um, an email that looked identical to somebody else at my company that emailed and said, hey boss, can you please update my payroll information? My new bank account is. And then all of a sudden, and it never came from me, and then all of a sudden payday came.

And I'm like, is there a reason you guys didn't pay me this week? And they're like, well, yeah, you emailed us and said you wanted us to update your payroll information. And I'm like, no, I didn't, did not do that. . And it was a really large company. And so somehow that made it all the way to HR because the first person didn't look at the email address.

And see that it was a spoof email address. They [00:19:00] then emailed the next person saying, Hey, this information, this informa And this was a long time ago when this was first happening. And they traced it all the way back to that first person who thought they were talking to me.

Ari Milner: Wow, that's a great example, because , there's so many, there's so many, , possible ways that that could have been stopped along the way, if the right technology, the right security piece was, if there was like a good inbound email security filter, it would have just been like, oh, that's a spoofing thing and blocked it there, right?

Leighann Lovely: Correct.

Ari Milner: But also like, if there was a process at the company that anytime there's a change. You know, call the person to verify it, right? That one seems obvious. It's super obvious, like, you know, just business process, human way to do it, right?

Leighann Lovely: Or you have to have a signature when a bank information changes.

It's kind of [00:20:00] like, but again, this was a really, this was a long time ago when people. weren't expecting that. Nowadays, I think that more people are like, duh. I mean, come on, but yeah,

Ari Milner: well, and user training too is super important for that too. Like maybe if that person who received the, the spoofing, the spoofed email had taken some fishing training and realized it.

, the, the method for checking if an email is legit, they would have taken a few seconds and been like, oh, no, that's this doesn't look right. Let's double check this.

Leighann Lovely: Yeah, right. . And I could go, you know, on a tangent in a million different directions on why, like. Why would I have emailed you and not gone directly to, you know, HR when, you know, you could go in a million different directions, but it's like, wow, how did that, you know, and then there were other ones like, oh, I got a text message, you know, directly from the [00:21:00] CEO of the company with a link in it saying here, can you please click on this and follow the instructions?

It's like, no, first of all, . It was a CEO that always went by an abbreviated name and they put their full name in there and it was like. From, you know, instead of Rick, it was from Richard. And it's like, wait, you don't refer to yourself as Richard, you know? But those, those are the ones like either in, as soon as you click on that link.

And I've, and I've, again, I've gotten emails that come through where,, it really quickly, I've clicked on it and gone, Oh, no, I shouldn't have clicked on that and immediately notified, you know, the IT, I just clicked on something, you're going to probably want to do a complete now, like cleanup of that.

And, and I've been hacked, you know, or at a company, I, I knew that I was the breach and then did the notification of, , sorry, boss, I think I may have [00:22:00] just screwed up. Like, I clicked on this link and now we're, and sure enough, my clients all started getting these spoof emails from me. And I'm like, yeah, , you know, it's one of those put your head down and walk out of the office going.

Yeah. I just created a shit storm here.

Ari Milner: Yeah. Well, so I'll tell you our one breach we've had with the client in the last. 9 years of plan. I. T. , is a tax prep firm and the owner of the of the firm wanted remote access to their own computers. And that's something we do and set up for them. Right? But what happened is the password they used for that happened to be some password that was exposed in another previous breach.

And the 2FA [00:23:00] wasn't set up on it on their account. It was on our accounts, right? And somebody got in. We taught them within half an hour, like, within minutes, essentially, of them getting into the remote system. We were able to block them and kick them out and mitigate a lot of the damage, right? Which we, yeah, we wouldn't have been able to do, or if they didn't have an I.

partner that couldn't have happened. Right? If they had just done the remote access set up to their own system, and then that happened, they would have been like, oh, what's going on? How do I kick this person out? What's yeah, what are we doing? Right? So

Leighann Lovely: interesting, but yeah, how the normal person wouldn't be able to go in and be like, Oh, I'm going to kick you.

I mean, it would be like walking blind.

Ari Milner: Yeah. What they start doing is they'll just [00:24:00] turn it off, unplug cables, and then they'll be like, okay, now what, how do I function as a business? Right. Well, even if you're

Leighann Lovely: unplugging cables, though, we were talking about. You can't unplug the internet. Yeah, it depends on the

Ari Milner: complexity of your environment, right?

Yeah, there's so much that,

Leighann Lovely: yeah. I'm thinking like, you can't unplug the cloud. Like, everything is now in the cloud. Like, you can't, that's, you can't, uh, I guess the main server to where everything is housed. Yeah, if you shut that down. But, I mean, my email is shut down right now and I'm barely functioning.

If you shut down my main server to where everything, I'd be like, Okay, I might as well just go and take a vacation because

Ari Milner: Yeah.

Leighann Lovely: I got nothing to do.

Click on the keys, like, okay, got a black screen. I'll just pretend to work. Yeah, it's, you shut down one system, and you, you don't [00:25:00] realize until, I have a list of things that I have to do right now, that I can't. Because I'm in the middle of migrating my email and it got shut down and they're like, oh, it'll be about 60 minutes.

You don't realize how frustrating that is because you're moving so fast that I never realized that, oh, I send an email, then I go back to something, then I send an email. Now, every time I have to send an email, I have to write down, I have to send this person an email, to send this person an email. Oh, God, this is, this is frustrating, like.

Now I'm creating a backlog of all of the stuff that I didn't even realize that I'm constantly doing on a regular. So if your main system of something went down, your domain, your server, your whatever, the backlog, not to mention if there was damage. [00:26:00]

Ari Milner: Yeah, well, and that's why, that's when you want to already have.

An incident response plan, or a continuity and disaster recovery plan in place. So, you know, like, oh, if this goes down, then this is what we're going to do instead. Right? Or this is how long it's going to take to get back up. Right. There's, there's so many considerations that way, and that's, we call it business continuity instead of just backups where we can actually have backup systems that are like extra copies of the system.

And then the main system goes down, we just like, flip a switch, like, kick it over here instead. Right. And then you're back up and running in minutes instead of like, oh, sorry, it's going to take. 48 hours to do a data restore or whatever. And you're, what are you going to do in the meantime, right? So it depends on how essential the system is, what, how you need to consider it in the, in the continuity plan [00:27:00] and what it's worth, you know, how much.

, is it worth paying more to have it, have a backup continuity system that you can just flip on like that because it's that essential to your business, right?

Leighann Lovely: Well, and it's funny because, you know, for the majority of everything else that we have, your, your website, for instance. You, you always, you have a backup of your website, I mean, you should, you should, if you don't, I mean, if you create a website, you should have a backup, you should have, regularly backing that up, if something happens to your, your main website, you should be able to really quickly just restore that with, like, the original content and everything else, you should have a complete backup of that, and you should be regularly backing that up, if you're making any changes.

You should have a backup of all your files, or that should be backed up on a regular basis, and Even, you know, myself still being a small little shop, I still regularly go in and manually do backups of all my files. Because if my main [00:28:00] computer goes down, God forbid, you know, somebody dumps water on my computer or my computer breaks or whatever.

I have a hard drive, an external hard drive that has a mass quantity of space. I literally back up everything. I'm going to guess that there are a lot of business owners out there that don't think about that. They're brand new. They're like, okay, I'm starting. And then all of a sudden, Oh, gee, I just lost my laptop.

In fact, I was talking to a woman not too long ago who was driving to a meeting at four o'clock in the morning and she got in a severe car accident, almost lost her life. We were talking and now she's, she's getting through the healing process. Three months later, she's still in, still healing from this.

And one of the things she said to me was my laptop survived and I'm like, okay. Like, we shouldn't be talking about how you're so thrilled your laptop survived, you should have a backup with everything that's on that laptop somewhere so that if it hadn't [00:29:00] survived, your business wouldn't have completely just gone away.

Ari Milner: Yeah, totally. The backup super important, but also the encryption on laptops and mobile devices is important. And that comes back to like the reporting requirements like that's something for. , HIPAA, for example, if we've got patient information on a doctor's laptop, right? And that laptop gets stolen, then that has to be reported, right?

, but if the laptop's encrypted when it's stolen, it doesn't need to be reported. They can just buy a new one and be back in business. And not have to worry about it because whoever stole it's going to have to wipe it to even use that machine at all. So there's, there's considerations like that, that.

Most business owners have no idea about that. I'm helping educate them on, like, during, , the audit or risk assessment process. Right. Right. I, I [00:30:00] recently found I did a security risk assessment with a law firm recently and this exact thing came up. I was like, oh, well, we found. Millions of dollars worth of private information on the owner's personal laptop, and it's not encrypted.

So, , if that laptop were to be stolen, you would be in big trouble. Right? That's that's the kind of thing that, , we help with all the time.

Leighann Lovely: Interesting that do you think and this will be my last question because we are coming to time before you get your 32nd shameless pitch here. Do you think there will come a time where it just is mandatory for everybody to have encrypted devices because of that?

I mean, my cell phone, for instance, like. Yeah, if you get my cell phone and you were able to break it, Apple is actually quite amazing [00:31:00] when it comes to like, Hey, if you lose your password, you're screwed. Sorry. We don't give out passwords. We don't give pins. It's, it's your responsibility. Like, and there's been people who, what I, this whole story about a kid who was playing around and it locked it for like 2 million minutes or something like there are Two billion minutes and then Apple's like, yep, there's nothing we can do for you.

We don't that's great. You know, like hey, you can pretty much Know that you're not gonna be able to break into somebody's phone unless you You can figure out the past because it'll continue to just lock you out. So do you think there will come a time when, I mean, devices, it's just a standardized feature that it has to be encrypted?

Ari Milner: Yeah. Well, it's the trend has been going away. Definitely. , , a lot of services are starting to be encrypted by default, like messaging services too, right? Whatsapp and Signal are doing that. Right. They're rolling out, , [00:32:00] even encrypted SNS is, is coming very soon and, yeah, it used to be that the default when you got a new phone was not encryption and that's already changed too.

So, but in terms of the requirements, it just depends on your, your jurisdiction. Like right now, the U. S. doesn't have data privacy and security regulations like Europe does, right? Where a lot of this is mandatory, but there's individual states in the U. S. that do. Right? So it's the kind of thing where it'll probably be coming here soon.

And, and yeah, you're going to need an IT partner to help you fulfill those requirements.

Leighann Lovely: Hmm. I mean, it just makes more sense. It

Ari Milner: just,

Leighann Lovely: it just,

Ari Milner: then again,

Leighann Lovely: one other

Ari Milner: bit related to that is. , quantum computers are coming. [00:33:00] Also, they're already here, but they're, they're very, uh, minimal in terms of their capabilities and how much data they can process.

But quantum computers. , can essentially break any standard encryption. So, regardless of what your regular, your encrypted private key is, a quantum computer is going to be able to break into that and get through the encryption. There's newer encryption techniques that have just been discovered in the last couple of years that are actually quantum proof.

And so that's really the next level on this. Story of where we're going with encryption is we need to get encrypted systems converted over to quantum proof encryption because 99 percent of them are not currently and the quantum computers are coming. That'll be able to break into any of this stuff.

Leighann Lovely: Okay, so you, this would be a whole nother conversation because you lost me at I understand at a high [00:34:00] level that quantum computers are like, next level that I don't get, but I, I did not know that those were becoming. Like, like available. Are you talking available to like the general public?

Ari Milner: Oh, no, no, they're not available to the general public for some time, but they're already available for governments and and schools doing research on them and large institutions.

Right.

Leighann Lovely: Right.

Ari Milner: And they're getting bigger and bigger and more complex. And that's, but that's one of the first practical implications as quantum computers become more common is standard encryption is not going to work anymore.

Leighann Lovely: Right. So

Ari Milner: yeah, that, that's where I was going with that. So

Leighann Lovely: basically the government is not going to be able, an encryption is not going to keep the government out of knowing exactly what we're doing and when we're doing it.

Ari Milner: Yeah, I mean, the NSA is going to be buying all the, all the quantum computers they can, because they want to break in everywhere [00:35:00] and read everyone's everything. Right? So

Leighann Lovely: we'll never be protected from the government basically sticking their fingers in whatever they want to stick their fingers in is the moral of the story.

Yeah. They always got to one up us, don't they?

Ari Milner: Well, but like I said, there is math that is quantum proof encryption that is doable. So that would be a whole other conversation we could get into sometime. It's, uh, yeah, that's kind of the next frontier there in terms of data privacy.

Leighann Lovely: God, that's so interesting.

Okay. Well, and I would love to continue this conversation cause I just, I, I love knowledge and I know that my listeners, you know, know I'm just, I'm a, I'm a total geek, I'm a total nerd. Um, I just, I love to learn, but we are coming to time. So 32nd shameless pitch.

Ari Milner: Yeah. So if you're running a small business, you already know that tech can either be, uh, your biggest advantage or your worst nightmare.

And [00:36:00] that's where PlanIT comes in. We bring enterprise level. IT, web, cybersecurity, and compliance solutions to small businesses, but without that enterprise price tag. Our global team delivers cutting edge technology trusted by business leaders. It's never too early or too late to find the right IT partner.

If you're interested, come to planitinnovate. com and click the button to book a call with me. I'd love to chat with you about your business's tech needs.

Leighann Lovely: Awesome. And how can somebody reach out to you?

Ari Milner: Uh, yeah, my website plan it innovate. com, or you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm Ari Milner, uh, A R I M I L N E R.

Leighann Lovely: Awesome. And Ari, your, um, contact information will be in the show notes. So if somebody is trying to reach out to you, you can check on the show notes. The full show notes are listed on Podbean, but you can also find that on, uh, YouTube on the, [00:37:00] um, where our, uh, Um, show is, listed on Love Your Sales and the YouTube channel.

So please go ahead and, um, you know, find, , Ari's contact information there, but I really appreciate our conversation. It's been fun and, , just filled with a ton of good information.

Ari Milner: Yeah. Thanks so much, Leighann, for having me.