Julian distills 69 episodes into 10 lessons every independent musician needs to hear.

After nearly two years of sitting across from independent artists, producers, and creatives, Julian steps behind the mic solo to share what the show has taught him. From why the music business and playing music for fun sit on opposite sides of the spectrum, to the real meaning behind "believe in yourself," to the Danny Beissel line that changed how he thinks about control, Julian gets into the practical and philosophical lessons that kept surfacing across 70 conversations.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, WE GET INTO:

• Why your taste, not your talent, is actually your biggest advantage as an artist
• The real difference between playing music for fun and treating it like a business
• Balance, obsession, and why patience might be the answer to both
• "You hold tighter with a looser grip:” the Danny Beissel line Julian can't stop thinking about
• The three barriers holding you back: ignorance, laziness, or cowardice (and what to do about each)

EPISODES REFERENCED:

• Ep 15: Making Music in the Age of Algorithms, with Lina Cooper
• Ep 21: How IMVNI Blends Jazz, Rock & Soul into a Healing Soundscape
• Ep 26: Bringing Big Emotion to Indie Rock: Marc Ramos of Morning Wars
• Ep 43: How to Build a Real Fanbase (Not Just Streams), with Quinn McGraw of PARIAH
• Ep 67: “Music Is Its Own Consciousness” – Danny Beissel on 25 Years of Rock

MUSIC MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Songs:

• "Rock with You" — Michael Jackson
• "Bye Bye Bye" — *NSYNC
• "Espresso" — Sabrina Carpenter

Albums & Projects:

• Prospect Gallery — Morning Wars
• SOME RANDOM GIRL THAT NEVER MADE IT ON THE INTERNET — Lina Cooper Swan Song (EP) — PARIAH / Quinn McGraw
• The 11th Hour — IMVNI

Artists & Bands:

• Morning Wars / Marc Ramos (Ep 26)
• Lina Cooper (Ep 15)
• PARIAH / Quinn McGraw (Ep 43)
• IMVNI (Ep 21)
• Danny Beissel (Ep 67)
• Michael Jackson
• *NSYNC
• Sabrina Carpenter
• Tiësto
• Eminem
• Brandi Carlile
• Whitney Houston
• Prince
• Kanye West
• Russ
• Jill Scott
• Alicia Keys
• John Legend
• Cage the Elephant
• The Black Keys

MORE RESOURCES:

Follow the OFFICIAL "loves music" playlist on Apple Music:https://music.apple.com/library/playlist/p.4Y0J406i03DQrX

"loves music" playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qE3kq89oyg3tFNbmRfHEO?si=vopaKQnNS8OHn0r2fFTVBg

Check out the "loves music" podcast website: https://www.podpage.com/loves-music/

Julian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianjones417/

Julian on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@julianjones417

Check out Julian's book: https://a.co/d/0hzWNkiD

This podcast is managed by Wildwave Podcasting: https://www.wildwavepodcasting.com

Seth Aaron has been writing songs since he was 13. He's only now giving himself permission to go all in.

The Philly soul and blues singer-songwriter spent two decades fitting music into a life that was designed for something safer. His first two albums showed range. His next one shows honesty. Record of Wrongs is Seth Aaron's most focused project yet: a collection of songs he's calling "Soultry," blending the storytelling of country with the emotional weight of soul. He and Julian (who happens to be his brother) get into what it means to redefine success on your own terms, the fear that keeps talented artists from betting on themselves, and a coffee shop conversation that explains everything wrong with how we think about taste.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, WE GET INTO:

• The parable of the Mexican fisherman and what it says about commodifying creative hobbies
• Why fear, not laziness, is the real obstacle for most artists
• Redefining success: from meeting other people's expectations to trusting your own purpose
• The coffee order question that reveals how disconnected we are from our own taste
• What it took to turn "very good demos" into a real album

ABOUT SETH AARON:

Seth Aaron is a singer-songwriter from Philadelphia blending soul, blues, and country into a style he calls "Soultry." His previous releases include the albums Heart Condition and Much Love Y'all! (2019), with his upcoming project Record of Wrongs on the way. He performs regularly at venues across Philly including Foster Club and Dawson's.

CONNECT WITH SETH AARON:

• Instagram: instagram.com/igobysethaaron
• Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/3tH3QEAzniUvmezyshPBAH
• Apple Music: music.apple.com/us/artist/seth-aaron/1484025984

EPISODES REFERENCED:

• Ep 57: Rob Tait: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/57-why-withholding-your-album-from-streaming-might/id1810336818?i=1000766608101

MUSIC MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Songs:

• "You Better Believe" — Seth Aaron
• "Haul Ass Home" — Seth Aaron
• "Brother One" — Seth Aaron
• "High Life" — Seth Aaron
• "What Do You Say?" — Seth Aaron
• "Bad" — Seth Aaron
• "Sweet Tooth" — Seth Aaron
• "Bohemian Rhapsody" — Queen

Albums & Projects:

• Heart Condition — Seth Aaron (debut album)
• Much Love Y'all! — Seth Aaron (2019)
• Record of Wrongs — Seth Aaron (upcoming)

Artists & Bands:

• Seth Aaron
• Rob Tait (Ep 57 guest, collaborator on Record of Wrongs)
• Ed Sheeran (referenced as comparison)
• Queen (Bohemian Rhapsody reference)

MORE RESOURCES:

Follow the OFFICIAL "loves music" playlist on Apple Music:https://music.apple.com/library/playlist/p.4Y0J406i03DQrX

"loves music" playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qE3kq89oyg3tFNbmRfHEO?si=vopaKQnNS8OHn0r2fFTVBg

Check out the "loves music" podcast website: https://www.podpage.com/loves-music/

Julian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianjones417/

Julian on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@julianjones417

Check out Julian's book: https://a.co/d/0hzWNkiD

This podcast is managed by Wildwave Podcasting: https://www.wildwavepodcasting.com

Danny Beissel got signed to Warner Music Group at 34, watched his rock band Fosterchild burn bright and fizzle out, and rebuilt himself in Laguna Beach: sober, meditating every morning, and writing the most personal record of his life.

The Philly-born rock vocalist behind Fosterchild, the American Vinyl All Star Band, and now Featherborn joins Julian for a long-overdue conversation about writing anthemic songs that stay intimate, why licensing music is the new radio, and the phrase that changed how he moves through everything: you have a better grip with a loose hand. Danny opens up about recording at Nashville's Blackbird Studio with the late Charlie Colin and Scott Underwood of Train, four years of sobriety, and why the human aspect of live music is the one thing AI will never touch.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, WE GET INTO:

• Recording Featherborn at Nashville's Blackbird Studio with members of Train
• Why anthemic rock songs still need to feel intimate, and how to write them
• Licensing music as the new path in for rock artists in the streaming era
• The one life lesson from 25+ years in music: a better grip with a loose hand
• Getting sober, becoming a man of his word, and what he'd tell his 20-year-old self

ABOUT DANNY BEISSEL:

Danny Beissel is a Philadelphia-born rock vocalist, songwriter, and actor based in Laguna Beach. He rose to prominence as the frontman of Fosterchild, who signed with ILG/Warner Music Group in 2007, and has been the lead vocalist of the American Vinyl All Star Band since 2012, sharing stages with members of Steely Dan, The Doobie Brothers, Boston, and the James Brown Band. His current original project, Featherborn — with Grammy-winning drummer Scott Underwood (Train), guitarist James Hamilton, and bassist/producer Curtis Mathewson — released its self-titled debut in 2023 and is currently working on Featherborn II.

CONNECT WITH DANNY:

• Instagram: instagram.com/dannybeissel
• Facebook: facebook.com/dannybeisselfeatherborn
• Website: featherborn.com
• Featherborn on Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/6U21tgMBZeHi2VnCflCqi3
• Danny Beissel on Apple Music: music.apple.com/us/artist/danny-beissel/1405355497

MORE RESOURCES:

Follow the OFFICIAL "loves music" playlist on Apple Music:https://music.apple.com/library/playlist/p.4Y0J406i03DQrX

"loves music" playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qE3kq89oyg3tFNbmRfHEO?si=vopaKQnNS8OHn0r2fFTVBg

Check out the "loves music" podcast website: https://www.podpage.com/loves-music/

Julian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianjones417/

Julian on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@julianjones417

Check out Julian's book: https://a.co/d/0hzWNkiD

This podcast is managed by Wildwave Podcasting: https://www.wildwavepodcasting.com

MUSIC MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Songs:

• "Blush" — Featherborn
• "There She Was" — Featherborn
• "Stay With Me" — Sam Smith (covered on Featherborn debut)
• "Karma Police" — Radiohead
• "Hallelujah" — Leonard Cohen
• "Music Books" — Julian Jones feat. Danny Beissel
• "Pastor Mike" — Julian Jones feat. Danny Beissel
• "Drops of Jupiter" — Train
• "Hey, Soul Sister" — Train

Albums & Projects:

• Featherborn — Featherborn (self-titled debut, 2023)
• Featherborn II — Featherborn (upcoming)
• The Elvis Experience — Danny's first band, 1995

Artists & Bands:

• Featherborn
• Fosterchild
• American Vinyl All Star Band
• Train
• Rival Sons
• David Bowie
• Radiohead
• Oasis
• Post Malone
• Elvis Presley
• Rick Rubin
• Death Cab for Cutie
• Joy Oladokun
• Boston
• Fuel
• Octane
• Candlebox

Cesar Rodriguez built an 11-year hip-hop podcast on one rule: never make a guest feel used.

Cesar has hosted The Rodriguez Show out of Southern California for over a decade, starting as a hip-hop news show and evolving into a wide-ranging interview series with musicians, DJs, and creatives. He now freelances as a podcast producer through Rodriguez Podcasts. Cesar talks with Julian about the moment hip-hop hooked him for life, why marketing is still the hardest part of the job after 11 years, and the one non-negotiable he holds every guest and client to.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, WE GET INTO:

• The song that turned Cesar into a lifelong hip-hop fan, and how that fandom became a career
• Why marketing, not content, is the hardest part of podcasting after 11 years
• His one non-negotiable for every guest and every client: genuine creative drive
• How he stays patient building a show for a decade-plus without chasing instant payoff
• The habit that instantly puts nervous guests at ease on camera

ABOUT CESAR RODRIGUEZ:

Cesar Rodriguez has hosted The Rodriguez Show for 11 years, interviewing musicians, DJs, and creatives out of Southern California. What started as a hip-hop news show grew into a wide-ranging interview series, and Cesar now freelances as a podcast producer through Rodriguez Podcasts. He also co-hosts a self-help and music-reaction YouTube channel with his wife, Carla.

CONNECT WITH CESAR RODRIGUEZ:

• The Rodriguez Show on Instagram: instagram.com/therodriguezshow
• The Rodriguez Show on YouTube: youtube.com/@TheRodriguezShow
• Rodriguez Podcasts (freelance production) on Instagram: instagram.com/rodriguezpodcasts
• Carla and Cesar on YouTube: youtube.com/@CarlaandCesar

MORE RESOURCES:

Follow the OFFICIAL "loves music" playlist on Apple Music:https://music.apple.com/library/playlist/p.4Y0J406i03DQrX

"loves music" playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qE3kq89oyg3tFNbmRfHEO?si=vopaKQnNS8OHn0r2fFTVBg

Check out the "loves music" podcast website: https://www.podpage.com/loves-music/

Julian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianjones417/

Julian on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@julianjones417

Check out Julian's book: https://a.co/d/0hzWNkiD

This podcast is managed by Wildwave Podcasting: https://www.wildwavepodcasting.com

Shoni recorded her entire EP alone in a closet, engineered it herself, and wrote the standout track in 15 min.

The New York-based R&B and soul singer-songwriter walked away from music for a decade after becoming a mom, and when she came back, she came back different. Shoni talks about recording Shades of Blues entirely on her own after a collaborator fell through, the Whitney Houston performance that gave her goosebumps at age five, why she names emotional intelligence as the number one quality she looks for in a team, and what happened when she stopped being a passenger in her own career.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, WE GET INTO:

• Recording Shades of Blues alone in her closet after a key collaborator fell through mid-project
• The Whitney Houston moment at a talent show that made a fourth grader decide to give people goosebumps for a living
• Why she names emotional intelligence (not talent) as the most important quality in a collaborator
• Walking away from music for 10 years as a mom and the depression that came with ignoring the calling

ABOUT SHONI:

Shoni is an R&B and soul singer-songwriter from New York City. Her 2025 EP Shades of Blues earned a feature on Tidal's Grown R&B playlist, placement on the Recording Academy's Grammy U November Mixtape, and a 2026 ISSA Awards finalist nod. She's also the host of the Beauty & Soul Podcast and founder of Soulfully Written Productions.

CONNECT WITH SHONI:

• Instagram: instagram.com/iamshoni
• Website: iamshoni.com
• Beacons: beacons.ai/iamshoni
• Threads: threads.net/@iamshoni
• Beauty & Soul Podcast: itsbeautyandsoul.com
• Soulfully Written Productions: soulfullywrittenproductions.com
• Listen to Shades of Blues: greentea.lnk.to/shadesofblues

MUSIC MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Songs:

• "Highway 95" / "Hwy 95" — Shoni
• "Bassline" (feat. Jae Writez) — Shoni
• "Won't Complain" — Shoni
• "Good Vibes" — Shoni

Albums & Projects:

• Shades of Blues — Shoni (2025)

Artists & Bands:

• Shoni
• Ms. Beats
• Jae Writez
• Whitney Houston
• Chris Martin
• Bruno Mars
• Olivia Dean

MORE RESOURCES:

Follow the OFFICIAL "loves music" playlist on Apple Music: music.apple.com/library/playlist/p.4Y0J406i03DQrX

"loves music" playlist on Spotify: open.spotify.com/playlist/0qE3kq89oyg3tFNbmRfHEO

Instagram: instagram.com/julianjones417

Threads: threads.net/@julianjones417

Website: podpage.com/loves-music

Julian's book: a.co/d/0hzWNkiD

This podcast is managed by Wildwave Podcasting: wildwavepodcasting.com

Kurt Sasso has 1,200 interviews and zero hiatuses, and he stopped chasing downloads years ago.

The Ottawa-based host of Two Geeks Talking started his show a month before Joe Rogan and Marc Maron launched theirs, back when podcasting barely had a name. What began as a webcomic interview show evolved into one of the longest-running entertainment podcasts in the game, covering comics, TV, film, music, and video games. Kurt and Julian get into the real cost of building a massive body of work: the burnout that comes from over-scheduling, why he stopped chasing validation entirely, and the uncomfortable truth about quality versus volume that most creators won't admit.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, WE GET INTO:

• Why Kurt gave up on validation as a metric, and what replaced it
• The burnout wall that hit after scheduling 42 interviews in 30 days
• Quality vs. volume: why more episodes doesn't mean a better show
• How an introverted person became a host with 1,200 conversations under his belt
• The future of podcasting and Kurt's prediction about virtual reality

ABOUT KURT SASSO:

Kurt Sasso is the host and producer of Two Geeks Talking, an entertainment interview podcast running since 2008 with over 1,200 episodes. He interviews professionals across comics, TV/film, music, and video games from Southwestern Ontario, and also works in the Canadian TV and film industry as a DIT. He's currently developing a documentary called Little Person Amongst Media Giants.

CONNECT WITH KURT SASSO:

• YouTube: youtube.com/TGTMedia
• Podcast: twogeekstalking.podbean.com
• Instagram: instagram.com/kurtsasso
• X: x.com/kurtsasso
• Linktree: linktr.ee/twogeekstalking
• Website: tgtmedia.com
• Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/two-geeks-talking/id296234690

MORE RESOURCES:

Follow the OFFICIAL "loves music" playlist on Apple Music:https://music.apple.com/library/playlist/p.4Y0J406i03DQrX

"loves music" playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qE3kq89oyg3tFNbmRfHEO?si=vopaKQnNS8OHn0r2fFTVBg

Check out the "loves music" podcast website: https://www.podpage.com/loves-music/

Julian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianjones417/

Julian on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@julianjones417

Check out Julian's book: https://a.co/d/0hzWNkiD

This podcast is managed by Wildwave Podcasting: https://www.wildwavepodcasting.com

Gabrielle Caruthers spent 20 years in the cultural arts before launching a podcast to ask the questions the creative community wasn't talking about.

She's a Detroit-based dancer turned podcast host, educator, and creative entrepreneur, and the founder of the Starving Artist Development Podcast. Gabrielle and Julian dig into what it actually costs to call yourself an artist-as-business, how to be consistent without burning out, and the difference between being talented and having it. Plus: why she keeps going after burying her 19-year-old niece and what her niece taught her about betting on yourself.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, WE GET INTO:

• Why consistency without nuance is the real source of creative burnout
• The hard question: are financially ambitious artists in service to the public?
• Talent vs. work ethic, and why Gabrielle picks drive every time
• "It": what makes a star undeniable, and how you know when someone has it
• Betting on yourself after loss: the lesson Gabrielle's niece left behind

ABOUT GABRIELLE CARUTHERS:

Gabrielle Caruthers is a Detroit-based creative entrepreneur, dance educator, and podcast host with 20 years in cultural arts. She's the founder of the Starving Artist Development Podcast, where she interviews creatives and provides tools, resources, and community for artists navigating the business of their craft.

CONNECT WITH GABRIELLE:

• Instagram: www.instagram.com/gabriellecaruthers
• Threads: www.threads.net/@gabriellecaruthers
• Podcast: starvingartistdevelopment.com
• Listen on Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/starving-artist-development-podcast/id1855584910
• Listen on Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/54zTKkJVf6n3jkb6b220LS

MORE RESOURCES:

Follow the OFFICIAL "loves music" playlist on Apple Music:https://music.apple.com/library/playlist/p.4Y0J406i03DQrX

"loves music" playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qE3kq89oyg3tFNbmRfHEO?si=vopaKQnNS8OHn0r2fFTVBg

Check out the "loves music" podcast website: https://www.podpage.com/loves-music/

Julian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianjones417/

Julian on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@julianjones417

Check out Julian's book: https://a.co/d/0hzWNkiD

This podcast is managed by Wildwave Podcasting: https://www.wildwavepodcasting.com

MUSIC MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Albums & Projects:

• Take Care — Drake

Artists & Bands:

• Kendrick Lamar
• Nas
• Jay-Z
• Peebo Bryson
• Shania Twain
• Madonna
• Common
• Kanye West
• Erykah Badu
• Drake
• Prince
• Michael Jackson
• Slum Village
• J Dilla
• Eazy-E
• Mahogany Jones
• Miss Corona
• Trey Freeman
• Fonzo
• Shee Fee McFly
• Nick Speed

Jon writes entire albums in a month, has a Nigerian band covering his songs, and still calls himself an amateur.

The Brighton-based singer-songwriter behind The Family Grave built a prolific catalog of indie folk and alt-rock records without ever learning barre chords. His "Happy Old Love Songs" trilogy (Happy Songs, Songs About Love, and Old Songs for Kids) came together across pandemic lockdowns, one-day-a-month studio sessions, and a songwriting process that treats creativity like a job you clock into for 30 days straight. Jon talks about pulling a smashed guitar from a London dustbin and teaching himself to play, why his limitations make his music more authentically his, the hold-my-beer studio moment that turned a folk song into a Latin dance number, and what it means to still be searching for your tribe after seven releases.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, WE GET INTO:

• The smashed guitar Jon found in a London dustbin, and how it started everything
• Writing 10 songs in a month using February Album Writing Month (FAWM)
• Why his amateur status and stubby fingers actually make his music more authentic
• The hold-my-beer moment that turned a folk demo into a Latin dance number
• A Nigerian producer, a cover band, and the power of saying yes to weird opportunities

ABOUT JON / THE FAMILY GRAVE:

Jon is a singer-songwriter from Brighton, UK, performing as The Family Grave. A self-described late starter, he writes and records with a revolving lineup of musician friends and has released multiple albums including the "Happy Old Love Songs" trilogy. His latest album, Old Songs for Kids, blends indie folk, alt-rock, and unexpected genre detours, including a Latin dance number that started as a two-minute acoustic demo.

CONNECT WITH JON / THE FAMILY GRAVE:

• Linktree: linktr.ee/TheFamilyGrave
• Instagram: instagram.com/thefamilygrave
• Threads: threads.net/@thefamilygrave
• Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/72hvOZf1bBYR5Q2DFOAXoy
• Bandcamp: thefamilygrave.bandcamp.com
• YouTube: youtube.com/@thefamilygrave
• X: x.com/thefamilygrave
• Vinyl & CDs via Elastic Stage: elasticstage.com/thefamilygrave
• Album (Old Songs for Kids): album.link/OldSongsForKids

MORE RESOURCES:

Follow the OFFICIAL "loves music" playlist on Apple Music:https://music.apple.com/library/playlist/p.4Y0J406i03DQrX

"loves music" playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qE3kq89oyg3tFNbmRfHEO?si=vopaKQnNS8OHn0r2fFTVBg

Check out the "loves music" podcast website: https://www.podpage.com/loves-music/

Julian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianjones417/

Julian on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@julianjones417

Check out Julian's book: https://a.co/d/0hzWNkiD

This podcast is managed by Wildwave Podcasting: https://www.wildwavepodcasting.com

MUSIC MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Songs:

• "ACDC" — The Family Grave
• "Big Man" — The Family Grave
• "Daylight" — The Family Grave
• "Sweet Charity" — The Family Grave
• "Caroline" — The Family Grave
• "Leave Him Behind" — The Family Grave
• "Everybody Is Flawed" — The Family Grave
• "Loving Is Easy (Lagos Version)" — The Family Grave (feat. Dimmeji)
• "Sympathy for the Devil" — The Rolling Stones
• "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" — The Rolling Stones
• "Let It Be" — The Beatles
• "Jolene" — Dolly Parton
• "I Will Always Love You" — Dolly Parton

Albums & Projects:

• Old Songs for Kids — The Family Grave
• Happy Songs — The Family Grave
• The Family Grave Play Songs About Love — The Family Grave
• Everybody Is Flawed — The Family Grave
• Harry Smith Was My Father — Hiawatha Telephone Company (Jon's earlier project)
• Post High Lows — Patience
• Anthology of American Folk Music — Harry Smith (box set)

Artists & Bands:

• The Family Grave / Jon
• Hiawatha Telephone Company (Jon's earlier project)
• Patience (Brighton band)
• Lucky Star Band (Nigerian cover band performing Family Grave songs)
• Lou Reed
• Bob Dylan
• Elvis Costello
• Nick Cave
• My Morning Jacket / Jim James
• Tim Hardin
• Townes Van Zandt
• Bonnie Prince Billy
• Kevin Morby
• Hiss Golden Messenger
• Aldous Harding
• The Rolling Stones
• The Beatles
• Dolly Parton
• Whitney Houston
• REM
• Dave Grohl
• Pharrell
• Halsey
• Lena Cooper

V!ctoria wrote her first hit during COVID at 15, posted it on a whim, and watched it rack up over half a million streams. Now she can barely press play on it.

The 20-year-old New York artist blends R&B, pop, rock, and hip-hop into something Julian straight up couldn't categorize; and that's exactly the point. V!ctoria produces everything herself on Logic, works exclusively in the dark, and refuses to be boxed into a single genre. She opens up about the comparison trap of outgrowing your own viral moment, why she won't force herself to write, what she learned about collaboration from Rome's closed music scene, and how consistency beats talent every time.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, WE GET INTO:

• Why her 553K-stream debut single is the one song she can't play out loud anymore
• The comparison trap: measuring your current self against your 15-year-old self's numbers
• Being your own manager, distributor, and creative director at 20, and what it costs
• What Rome's private music scene taught her about collaboration and community
• Talent vs. work ethic, and why showing up matters more than being gifted

ABOUT V!CTORIA:

V!ctoria is a 20-year-old New York-based indie artist making genre-defiant music that blends R&B, pop, rock, and hip-hop. She writes, produces, and releases everything independently. Her 2021 debut single "let me go" reached 553K Spotify streams without a single playlist placement, and her latest single "wondering" dropped May 2026.

CONNECT WITH V!CTORIA:

• Instagram: instagram.com/imvxctoria
• TikTok: tiktok.com/@imvxctoria
• Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/1TIGLYKA8kApefnVSPuhWS
• Listen to "wondering": open.spotify.com/album/40SukE7Q9VDsdRam3GFb7N

MORE RESOURCES:

Follow the OFFICIAL "loves music" playlist on Apple Music:https://music.apple.com/library/playlist/p.4Y0J406i03DQrX

"loves music" playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qE3kq89oyg3tFNbmRfHEO?si=vopaKQnNS8OHn0r2fFTVBg

Check out the "loves music" podcast website: https://www.podpage.com/loves-music/

Julian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianjones417/

Julian on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@julianjones417

Check out Julian's book: https://a.co/d/0hzWNkiD

This podcast is managed by Wildwave Podcasting: https://www.wildwavepodcasting.com

MUSIC MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Songs:

• "let me go" — V!ctoria
• "wondering" — V!ctoria
• "HOW I DO" — V!ctoria
• "POCKETFUL" — V!ctoria
• "Swimming Pools (Drank)" — Kendrick Lamar

Artists & Bands:

• V!ctoria
• Kendrick Lamar

Ep.60: Pearl Fontaine dropped out of a lyric writing class in college because she wasn't ready to share herself. Years later, a bonfire in rural North Carolina changed everything.

The lead singer of Post American Gothic grew up singing with her gospel-singing grandfather, chasing musical theater, and getting rejected from arts school… twice. After a stint at Berklee, a year in Brooklyn that ended with COVID, and a stretch of not making music at all, Pearl landed back in her small-town North Carolina roots with a new mission: start a band. What came out of that bonfire jam session with her now-husband Brandyn is a pop punk project with prog rock edges, hip-hop-influenced production, and a sound that defies every box Pearl spent years trying to fit into.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, WE GET INTO:

• Getting rejected from arts school twice and how it redirected her entire creative path
• The COVID bonfire that accidentally launched Post American Gothic
• Why self-consciousness is still the biggest thing holding her back — and how she's fighting it
• Playing three-hour sets that are 80% originals in a town with no real music venues
• The real meaning behind their single "Hello, Hello" — a letter to her younger self

ABOUT PEARL FONTAINE:

Pearl Fontaine is the lead singer of Post American Gothic, a pop punk band from Elizabeth City, North Carolina. With a background in musical theater, flute, and a year at Berklee College of Music, Pearl brings a classically trained voice to a band whose sound pulls from prog rock, emo, hip-hop production, and indie. She also works full-time at a local arts nonprofit where she teaches music to youth.

CONNECT WITH PEARL FONTAINE / POST AMERICAN GOTHIC:

• Instagram (Band): instagram.com/postamericangothic
• Instagram (Pearl): instagram.com/pearl_fontaine
• Linktree: linktr.ee/postamericangothic
• Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/2ueAojdjjzcLqGCmE6U4WX
• Apple Music: music.apple.com/us/artist/post-american-gothic/1654095587
• Listen to "Hello, Hello": open.spotify.com/track/6mlIAityeBZjoyu3ngttA3

MORE RESOURCES:

Follow the OFFICIAL "loves music" playlist on Apple Music:https://music.apple.com/library/playlist/p.4Y0J406i03DQrX

"loves music" playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qE3kq89oyg3tFNbmRfHEO?si=vopaKQnNS8OHn0r2fFTVBg

Check out the "loves music" podcast website: https://www.podpage.com/loves-music/

Julian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianjones417/

Julian on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@julianjones417

Check out Julian's book: https://a.co/d/0hzWNkiD

This podcast is managed by Wildwave Podcasting: https://www.wildwavepodcasting.com

MUSIC MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Songs:

• "Hello, Hello" — Post American Gothic
• "Take Your Medicine" — Post American Gothic
• "Porcelain" — Post American Gothic
• "Carried by Birds" — Post American Gothic

Artists & Bands:

• Post American Gothic
• Paramore / Hayley Williams
• Circa Survive
• Bon Iver
• Sweet Pill
• Pool Kids
• Dead Poets Society
• Aziya
• Magnolia Park
• Firsun
• The Warning
• Sleep Token
• Sara Bareilles
• Ingrid Michaelson
• Regina Spektor
• Bloc Party
• Led Zeppelin
• The Eagles
• Beck