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I’m your host Kelly Ann McKercher, author of Beyond Sticky Notes: Doing Co-design for Real. In this podcast we hear from Luke Craven and Elise Motalli about what it means to be a systems-conscious designer, where we can turn to for more expansive language about the worlds we want. 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/elise-motalli-44070b119/

Nora Bateson

https://batesoninstitute.org/nora-bateson/

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