Mads Singers Management Podcast

My guest for this episode of the Mads Singers Management Podcast, Ravi Sharma, is currently based in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, but this time last year, that wasn’t the plan.  His digital agency, Webomaze, which does marketing, SEO, web design, and mobile apps, just to name a few things, was solely based in India at the time.  He and some of his team had come to Australia to see what the market was like to consider doing some business there.  But then, as you know, something happened in March of 2020, and Ravi and his team got stuck.

As time went on and the entire team switched to working from home (something he admits he would never have normally envisioned) they opened up a new office in Melbourne and now they are in India and Australia.  That’s a way to make lemonades out of lemons for sure!

Ravi strongly believes in the delegation (and trusting when you do so) and he says that the system of delegation is what made the transition to remote work for his team that much easier.  His staff handled it on their own, which allowed him to focus on what he thinks his main function in the company is as CEO: growth.  I agreed, telling him I call this the “Don’t be the expert” rule.  If you don’t hire experts, you’ll be stuck as the expert, which will create a bottleneck.  Something else Ravi has as a rule: don’t give your employees solutions.  Allow them to figure things out for themselves.  This will create trust and show that you believe they can figure things out.  I love that mentality.

Ravi clearly understands how to manage, but one of the first things I hear from people when we first start working together on improving their management skills is, “I’m not good at management.”  But often what they really mean is, “I’m not comfortable with management, because I haven’t taken the time to learn about it.”  Managing is like going to the gym: it gets better with practice, and it goes even faster when you have a trainer or coach.

We also share similar philosophies around recruitment.  I believe that with internal hires you know what you are getting.  Ravi agreed, saying that you know the person is already a cultural fit and can act as a replicator of their cultures and competencies as they rise.  He really believes in the importance of showing career progression possibilities: that’s so important because when employees see fellow team members progressing they can see themselves progressing too.

Ravi has a clear focus for himself and a vision for his team and I think that will inspire listeners to make sure they have the same.  Enjoy!

Key Learning Points:

1. Ravi shares what he thinks the primary focus of entrepreneurs should always be - 2:55

2. Mads talks about why people “struggle” with management - 4:45

3. Ravi explains why he considers employees as “clients” as well - 9:36

4. Mads shares the risks of external hires (and the benefits of internal ones) - 11:03

5. Ravi stresses the importance of a path of career progression for your team - 14:20

6. Ravi talks about how Covid shifted his thinking on working from home - 17:00

7. Ravi explains the importance of trust in the delegation - 20:35

8. Ravi talks about why he doesn’t give solutions to his team members - 22:40

Connect with Ravi Sharma

Email

My guest for this episode of the Mads Singers Management Podcast is Alain Hunkins who has trained individuals and teams in 2000+ businesses in over 25 countries over the last two decades.  He is originally from NYC but currently lives in the Netherlands.  Fascinatingly, Alain’s curiosity about how people interact with each other is informed by an undergraduate degree in Literature with a minor in psychology and a graduate degree in...theater!

That fact kicked off our conversation, as Alain pointed out that no matter what industry you are in, you’re ultimately in the people business, so it’s less important to be subject matter experts in particular industries and more important to be asking the right questions.  One of the first ones that Alain usually leads with is, “What’s the biggest challenge you are facing right now?”

One of the ways that you can keep track of the challenges your team is facing is by having consistent one-on-ones.  By building relationships with people through these regular meetings, you will find out what makes them tick, what they are passionate about, and most importantly, how you can help them.  Alain noted that empathy with your people and their situations can lead to performance increases as high as 40%!  As I often say, as an individual, your work is judged by what you can achieve, but as a manager, you are judged by what you inspire and motivate in others.  

Alain agreed, noting that developing people has a multiplier effect, whereas simply “fixing” things is just an additive effect: you get fewer results, slower.

Alain contends that another important activity for those in management is a specific time set aside for deep work.  Those who are willing to shut out distractions and focus on the most important things consistently make the biggest strides.  That habit won’t just matter for yourself: it will have positive ripple effects on your team.

We also discussed the importance of proactively asking for feedback and the proper (and only) answer to give when receiving it: “Thank you.”

There are so many other great points Alain shared during our conversation: check out the episode, you’ll learn a lot.  I sure did!

Key Learning Points: 

1. Alain shares one of the first questions he usually poses to clients - 3:54

2. Alain warns on the temptation of being “fixer-in-chief” - 7:54

3. Mads discusses the key transition that newly promoted managers have to make - 10:30

4. Mads and Alain note what message gets sent by the length of the notice you give - 13:53

5. Alain discusses a key shortcoming of clients when they first start getting coached by him - 15:20

6. Alain talks about why habits aren’t just for ourselves - 20:10

7. Alain explains the first two categories he looks at when looking to improve the performance of managers - 21:15

8.  Alain shares why good leaders ask for feedback - 26:05

9.  Mads and Alain share the only correct answer when receiving feedback - 29:22

Resources Mentioned:

The Leadership Challenge by Kouzes and Posner

Connect with Alain Hunkins

Cracking the Leadership Code

LinkedIn continues to be an even more relevant part of networking and sales and it’s not often that you can speak with someone who’s been on the inside of that company, helping businesses use the platform to get outstanding results in recruiting and sales.

My guest for this episode of the Mads Singers Management Podcast, Jonathan Baldock, is one of those insiders.  Based in Toronto, Jonathan spent a decade helping LI’s largest global customers with their recruitment goals as well as advising on social sharing and employee advocacy.

With 700+ million members, LinkedIn can be a loud place.  But throughout our conversation, Jonathan kept noting that it wasn’t about reaching everyone: it was about the share of voice in your industry.  Share of voice refers to conversations in your industry and what your footprint is within those conversations (and looking to increase them).  Jonathan likened the share of voice to two car dealerships that are side-by-side.  One has three cars and the other has 100.  They can both sell you cars, but one definitely looks more attractive at first glance.

You don’t increase the share of voice by simply sharing content about how awesome your business is (and how you need to buy from us NOW).  Here are two wonderful tips Jonathan shared:

• Get buy-in from your employees.  If you take a company with 50 employees, they will have, on average, 800 followers.  An average person may have 800 connections on LinkedIn.  When one of your employees shares a job opportunity, or a thought leadership post, or an article from your company, they have the potential to reach many times the number of your company’s followers.
• Use a 3/2/1 ratio for every 6 pieces of content you are sharing:
  • 3 pieces of thought leadership
  • 2 industry-specific pieces
  • 1 piece about your company

Jonathan stressed the importance of not worrying about winning a share of voice for all of LI, but again, just within the important scope of your clients and prospective clients.  LI is, after all, primarily a B2B platform.

I shared with him my own pet peeve of seeing people tag dozens of people in posts.  Jonathan agreed that this not only wasn’t effective but was likely to lead to your getting unfollowed (unsurprisingly!).  Best practice?  Tagging one, maybe two people, and using one, maybe two hashtags in your posts.

LinkedIn definitely feels like a black box to many of us, but after this episode, you’ll feel that it’s less mysterious!  Enjoy.

Key Learning Points:

1. Jonathan shares some tips for building your LinkedIn company page - 5:04

2. Jonathan discusses the importance of posting and sharing content in driving interest - 7:00

3. Jonathan offers some best practices for sharing on LinkedIn - 27:20

4. Jonathan notes the importance of focusing on your clients and prospective clients (vs. the whole world) - 29:15

5. Mads shares a pet peeve: tagging a bunch of people in a LinkedIn post - 31:07

Resources Mentioned:

 
LinkedIn Sales Blog

LinkedIn Marketing Blog

LinkedIn Talent Acquisition Blog

Connect with Jonathan Baldock

LinkedIn

I recently had a chance to appear on the Next Level Ecommerce podcast and had such a great conversation with the host, Isaac Smith, that I invited him to come and share some of his wisdom on my very own Mads Singers Management Podcast.

Isaac has been in E-commerce since 2014 and worked through a number of different businesses and projects before finding success with one in particular that he sold last year.  I was keen to hear his stories and lessons about how to build a successful team that can support an e-commerce business.

We discussed hiring and Isaac shared a quote from Grant Cardone that totally changed the way he approached hiring: “Even when I’m buying, I’m selling.”  Isaac had simply been generally copying job descriptions and listing the things he wanted people to do for him.  By turning his not-so-successful process on its head, understanding that he had a great opportunity to offer, he changed everything: the job descriptions, the interview process, etc.  He now views these job descriptions as sales pages where he can pitch the opportunity to work doing something rewarding, something that many VAs in e-commerce businesses are searching for.

I noted that the best talent is rarely available in the job market and if you run across great talent you’ve got to sell your business and the opportunity to them.  One of the ways I’ve learned to deal with the best being rarely available is to leverage LinkedIn to find people who are good matches (I use very specific keywords) and then asking them if they know anyone who would be a good fit.  Often I get a referral and occasionally that person puts his/her hand up (which is what I was dreaming of in the first place).

We also talked about the importance of having systems and procedures in place, and Isaac noted the importance of not answering questions that are provided in the training, but rather referring people to the training.  I would go one step further and task those people who are actually doing the tasks on a daily basis with making sure that those materials are updated.  After all, they are becoming the subject matter experts in those tasks.  Why not have them keep the materials up to date?

Isaac started the episode by saying that his best lessons have come from his biggest mistakes and that he has found that when he has been willing to be vulnerable and share those challenges with his team, there’s a greater bond of trust that is formed, which makes it easier to work together.  It’s important to track the way your team members think and feel and get to know them better, especially through one-on-ones.

Enjoy this conversation with Isaac!

Key Learning Points:

1. Isaac shares that all his best lessons have come from his biggest mistakes - 4:20

2. Isaac gives us a Grant Cardone quote that completely changed the way he hired - 8:30

3. Mads reminds us that the best people are rarely available to hire - 14:05

4. Mads makes the case for management as manipulation (in a good way) - 18:50

5. Isaac discusses the value of vulnerability when talking with your team - 22:07

6. Mads gives some hacks for finding talent on LinkedIn - 30:30

7. Isaac shares pitfalls of SOPs - 43:15

8. Mads offers a technique to make sure SOPs are consistently updated - 46:41

9. Isaac talks about developing a mentality of always being willing to update/improve processes - 50:30

Resources Mentioned:
10x Rule by Grant Cardone

Connect with Isaac Smith

Facebook

Next Level Ecommerce Podcast

While many people struggled to survive when the Covid-19 pandemic began (and continued), Lindsay Tjepkema and her team at Casted have had a very different problem: managing growth.  The company is only two years old and half of that has been in the middle of a series of lockdowns and restrictions that no one ever planned for.  But while Casted entered the pandemic in March 2020 with 10 team members, they now have 20.

Casted is an amplified marketing platform that helps enterprise B2B marketing teams harness the power of audio and video content as the centerpiece of their content strategy.  Someone appearing on a podcast to discuss how her company helps other companies grow using, among other things, podcasts, made for a fun episode of the Mads Singers Management Podcast!

Lindsay, first and last, values people.  Long before she started the company, she and her co-founders were planning and discussing what kind of team they wanted to build, what kind of opportunities they wanted to offer, what kind of culture they hoped to create.  That sort of people-centric focus, pre-pandemic, led to a very tight team: they went to lunch with each other at least once a week, overheard meetings and sales pitches, and even knew each other’s coffee preferences.  That’s obviously had to change as the in-person team added many new members who couldn’t be there with them.  Something I’ve done with my own teams to adapt to the situation is to have walking meetings.  Instead of walking together in-person, we both are walking in our own geographic locations and getting that energy and movement from a walk as part of our time together.

It’s also important to interconnect your people.  Some personality types are going to naturally gravitate towards others, but some members of your team are going to need a bit of encouragement to interact with each other.  It might be a bit manufactured and awkward at the beginning, Lindsay acknowledges, but the fruits of this outreach come fairly quickly.

This also means that Lindsay tries to make herself available to help others in whatever way she can.  Whenever business owners tell me they “don’t have time for that kind of thing” it’s usually because they are “busy” doing the wrong things.  It’s these one-on-one connections with people, team members, and strangers alike, that can take you to the next level of personal and professional performance.  Lindsay gets that, and that’s why I think she and Casted have a bright future ahead of them.  Enjoy our conversation!

Key Learning Points:

1. Lindsay discusses how “people” have always been at the center of how she viewed and built Casted - 3:05

2. Lindsay values “over-communication” in her team - 5:04

3. Mads shares the “biggest own goal possible” in management - 9:15

4. Lindsay offers different frames for presenting unwanted projects to your team - 10:35

5. Lindsay discusses the power of in-person teams - 15:30

6. Lindsay and Mads note the fallacy of the entrepreneur “going it alone” - 27:45

7. Lindsay discusses the value of alone time - 31:30

Connect with Lindsay Tjepkema

LinkedIn

Twitter

Casted

Yellow Pages was a dominant advertising paradigm for many small businesses for so many years and it worked well for many of them.  Put up an ad and the sales would roll in.

Today’s guest for the Mads Singers Management Podcast, John Vuong, lived in that universe for ten years before transitioning to the digital advertising world.  John really enjoyed working with small business owners and watching their journeys to build successful businesses.  He had a passion for helping them on that journey and hence when the paradigm began to shift away from Yellow Pages, he moved on to the then-unknown world of SEO.  

He didn’t let that lack of knowledge scare him.  He jumped in with both feet and made more than his fair share of mistakes.  But he says that his sales background really helped him in this new SEO world.  I noted that SEOs are not normally known for being social and gregarious and that a sales background could clearly be a differentiator in that space.

Something we both really agreed on was the importance of putting yourself in someone else’s shoes.  This isn’t just important when dealing with clients you are trying to help, but also with employees, you are trying to delegate tasks to.  Failure to delegate in the SEO world will mean the death of a small agency, which I see far too often with owners who also happen to be subject matter experts.

John noted that a lot of his clients aren’t interested in understanding the black box that is SEO: that’s what they pay him to do.  But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t explain some basics to them.  “Consumer education in this space is key,” he noted.

We finished the episode by talking about the importance of company culture.  I firmly believe you can build a company any way that you want to, as long as you are crystal clear on the culture that you are building that company on top of.  

John’s humility and openness about his journey are encouraging for any of those who might be considering entrepreneurship.  Enjoy!

Key Learning Points:

1. John shares his motivation to get into SEO - 3:06

2. Mads talks about the trap of the subject matter expert - 4:32

3. John notes the necessary consumer education for SEO clients - 6:45

4. John discusses his early mistakes - 8:08

5. John talks about how public speaking and podcasting made him more resilient - 10:30

6. Mads shares how his inherent ability to read people got supercharged by DISC - 12:00

7. Mads notes that most SEOs lack EQ - 15:05

8. Mads affirms that you can build a business however you want to, around a culture that matters to you - 22:30

9. John talks about how his sales life prepared him for entrepreneurship - 30:30

Resources Mentioned:

1. Principles by Ray Dalio 
2. Tribe of Mentors by Tim Ferriss

Connect with John Vuong

LinkedIn

Local SEO Search

It’s always nice when our guest for the Mads Singers Management Podcast is familiar with hosting a podcast.  In this episode, I’m chatting with Jesse Jackson (no, not that Jesse Jackson) about best practices when it comes to managing and communicating with teams.  Jesse has spent most of his career in the call-center business, working in various divisions, be it sales, customer service, and tech support.  He has managed teams from 25-50 people.  When he’s not with his family he’s recording podcasts about Bruce Springsteen and Dr. Who.    

Jesse moved to a new company last year and had dozens of new team members to meet.  He met all of them in two weeks, asking some short simple questions:

• What do you like about working here?
• What do you not like?
• What can I do for you?
• What’s a song you have to have on a road trip?

Jesse’s fellow managers were stunned that Jesse had managed to meet with everyone so quickly, but Jesse couldn’t understand why this wasn’t a basic expectation: how could he be expected to understand his team if he couldn’t take a few minutes to meet with them?  He created a Spotify playlist using everyone’s songs and shared it, as well as the two most important pieces of feedback that kept coming up in his meetings:

• Everyone enjoyed the family atmosphere of the company, but
• They didn’t feel as much in the loop as they wanted to be

I noted that not only is communication normally an issue between management and teams, but that some managers don’t have the self-awareness to realize that they are not communicating in the way that is best for all the members of the team, but in the way that the manager typically prefers.  Jesse understood that instinctively and said that when he sends out communication he usually does it across multiple platforms, be it email, Loom, and messages on Teams/Slack so that everyone could get the info in the format he/she preferred.

Jesse also noted how far telling team members WHY goes.  He shared multiple occasions in which sharing the why behind his decision led to buy-in and adoption.  That sort of sharing also gives employees the confidence to come to you with ideas for improvement.  He gives those employees the advice that he earned by his own lessons: come to management with facts instead of feelings, and have the confidence in yourself to advocate for your ideas.  Don’t just back down at the first “No.”  Management has natural resistance built-in.

I agreed, pointing out that whenever I’ve seen employees own an idea they work that much harder to get it implemented.

It was a pleasure to chat with Jesse.  Enjoy the episode!

Key Learning Points:

 1. Jesse talks about why it’s so important to meet with each team member when you take over a team - 4:45

2. Mads warns of bad tendency leaders have when communicating with their team members - 7:50

3. Jesse shares why the “mushroom treatment” doesn’t work for team members - 12:30

4. Mads notes the three pitfalls of failing to own unpopular decisions - 15:50

5. Jesse encourages those who want to advocate for change with management to show up with facts, not feelings - 24:45

6. Mads stresses that people will tend to fight to help bring one of their own ideas to life - 30:50

Resources Mentioned:

Three Signs of a Miserable Job by Patrick Lencioni

Connect with Jesse Jackson

 Set Lusting Bruce

 Twitter

Today’s guest for the Mads Singers Management Podcast, Timothy Colson, has spent many years in leadership, first in a big box retailer for almost a decade, then for a nationwide insurance company.  Today he runs his own insurance and financial services firm in New York, about an hour outside Manhattan.

Part of why Timothy runs his own firm today is his love of culture and the way that it can shape a team.  “We sell commodities.  There’s no need to take that so very seriously.  I want a team that values creativity, honesty, and having fun.”  Timothy noted that when he emphasized those core values, it wasn’t difficult to attract A-players to his team. 

Timothy noted that great culture happens when people enjoy their work, feel trusted and empowered, and come to work every day feeling like they are part of something.  I noted that that goes hand in hand with performance.  People who are performing well tend to be happier.  Those who are not performing well know they aren’t performing, and are a drag on themselves and the culture.  If they can’t get with the program, they have to go (and it’s better for them too!).

We also discussed “situational leadership” as a topic that is getting more attention these days.  Timothy sees that as assessing what is the most important issue in a given day or week, identifying the right person to deal with it, and then deploying that person to do so.  This fosters trust and empowerment in a team, as opposed to micromanagement, which tends to discourage team members.

Timothy and I also enjoyed roasting the old and outdated chestnut that, in management, you should always “treat everyone the same.”  The reality is that different people need different techniques and approaches.  Timothy talked about one particular scenario in which one of his team was performing very well, but not using the methods that had been determined as the “right way” by the higher ups.  After spending some time with her, he decided to ask for forgiveness instead of asking for permission from the higher-ups and leaned into the methods she was using to win.  He then documented those and passed them up the chain for approval.  Rather than insist that there was only one right way to do things, he took a gamble and helped coach his employee.

Timothy has a clear passion for the science of leadership and it was a pleasure to get to know him well.  Enjoy this episode!

Key Learning Points:

1. Timothy notes that it only takes one person to poison the culture of an entire company - 4:00

2. Timothy shares what he thinks a great culture does - 5:15

3. Mads reminds us that people who perform tend to be happy - 6:56

4. Timothy gives us his definition of situational leadership - 16:50

5. Mads warns that “treat everyone the same” as an idiom in management is outdated thinking - 19:00

6. Mads stresses the importance of self-knowledge to complement knowledge of your team - 21:32

7. Timothy shares how he found a way to help one of his team members grow in an unconventional way - 27:44

8. Timothy talks about an “aha” moment in regards to micromanagement - 33:03

9. Mads notes the biggest danger of micromanagement - 35:11

Connect with Timothy Colson

Tri-State Legacy Group

Believe it or not, there was a time when there was nothing like Google Ads on the Internet.  All you could find were documents and PDFs floating around explaining how to “improve traffic” to your website, but there was nothing like the SEO industry that exists today.

One of those early pioneers (with one of those PDFs in hand) was Phil Drinkwater.  He originally trained as a programmer and helped to design video games.  He moved into project management and picked up SEO and UX/UI along the way.  He’s my guest for today’s episode of the Mads Singers Management Podcast.

Phil now runs an agency focused on a few specific niches, and that was something we both see as a big problem in SEO: a lack of focus.  Instead of doing something specific and doing it well over and over and over, many individuals and agencies claim to be all things to all people.  

While a part of me understands that it’s a part of the entrepreneurial journey to say “yes” in the beginning so you can say “no” later, it seems that there are quite a few people who are still stuck in the “yes” mode (with no game plan for how to move into “no” mode).  I have to say when I speak for small businesses or at conferences, this is a topic that comes up over and over and is probably the thing I speak about the most.

Part of serving a specific niche is networking appropriately.  “If you want to work with lawyers, find out where they hang out and go there,” said Phil.  Whatever you want to focus on, identify where the decision-makers are congregating and go there to add value, not just to throw your (virtual) business card at them.

Phil also clearly has a passion for building a team of A-players who trust each other and trust the process.  Part of his interview process for any new employee involves that person sitting with the team, doing tasks, and also asking questions: nothing is off limits.  Not only does this build friendship and camaraderie even before day one on the job, but it lets people know that they matter.  

Phil had experience in fear-based cultures in some workplaces and he thinks it’s perhaps the easiest way to kill the creativity in your team.  Fear-based cultures tend to micromanage and check everything and that’s a great way to watch creatives check out.  Ultimately, you want people to be “free to fail” because mistakes and failures aren’t the end of the world.  We learn from our mistakes.  We should never be put in the position (or put our team members in such a position) as to feel that perfection is what we’re after.  Trust and accountability matters much more.

Phil’s got a world of experience to share and I hope you tune in and harvest some of it!

Key Learning Points:

1. Phil talks about the early days of SEO - 2:10

2. Phil shares the hands-on interview process that helps him find the best candidates - 6:45

3. Phil emphasizes the importance of giving people a voice - 8:45

4. Phil explains the open structure of his company - 10:00

5. Phil warns of the dangers of a “blame culture” - 11:30

6. Phil stresses the need for creatives to feel relaxed in order to perform well - 15:00

7. Phil discusses how delegation felt “unnatural” to him at first - 17:15

8. Phil celebrates some big “mistakes” that have led to positive changes in his life - 20:15

9. Phil recommends Alan Watts’ story of the Chinese farmer - 23:40

10. Phil underlines the importance of doing a business you can enjoy and be successful at - 32:01

Connect with Phil Drinkwater

Website

LinkedIn

Twitter

We often complain about the fact that there’s so much that “they” don’t teach us in school that we need not just for our careers, but for life.  Turns out that instead of just adding one more voice to that chorus, someone decided to address those challenges by writing a book.

Today’s guest for the Mads Singers Management Podcast, Mark Herschberg, is the author of the new book The Career Toolkit: Essential Skills for Success that No One Taught You.  Mark has managed to pull off a rare trick: 20 years in academia, teaching at MIT, and 20 years as a CTO, working with garage startups and Fortune 500 companies alike.

One of the aspects of our conversation that I found funny was how both Mark and I had to intentionally overcome parts of our own personalities in order to live the lives we do now.  For me, as a classic introvert, I chose to ride a bus to work early in my career.  I started with “Hi”s to strangers and when that became easier, I graduated to “Hi, how are you?”  Mark’s technique was more dramatic: he used ballroom dancing.  “If I made mistakes, it wasn’t the end of the world,” he noted.  He took what may have been “high stakes” for others and turned it into a practice ground for himself.  Not only did he become better at networking, but dancing gave confidence to his public speaking. 
 

I shared that Toastmasters had been part of my own journey to improve in public speaking, and we noted that activities and hobbies like dancing or Toastmasters serve as their own form of networking.  Rather than having to subject ourselves to the sometimes cringey world of “networking events” we have both come to realize over time that when you pursue interesting things you will run into interesting people.  And before too long, you’re “networking” without even knowing it.

We also spoke about the value of negotiation and how some managers are “afraid” to train their employees to negotiate: “What if they use that against me?”  But Mark really noted that this isn’t a smart way to think.  It’s always better to negotiate against a good negotiator than a bad one.  A good one figures out how to get the best outcomes for everyone instead of playing a zero-sum game.  Yes, they may use their new negotiation skills “against” you, but they will appreciate your investment in them as a person, not just as a numbered employee. 

Mark is so full of fascinating stories and helpful lessons that this episode could have easily gone on longer.  I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. 

Key Learning Points:

1. Mads notes that the best salesperson doesn’t necessarily make the best sales manager, and certainly can’t become one without training - 3:43

2. Mads shares that often when people say they “don’t like managing” it’s because they don’t know how - 5:20

3. Mark stresses the importance of being incrementally better than your competition rather than focusing on being the “world’s greatest” - 7:07

4. Mark used ballroom dancing to help with his fear of public speaking - 11:04

5. Mark gives us a tactic to get networking results without attending “networking events” - 15:05

6. Mark has been encouraging people to re-invest the time they have saved with Covid - 23:40

7. Mark talks about the importance of learning how to learn - 30:00

8. Mark goes back to memories of geometry in school to connect learning to life - 33:45

9. Mark makes the case for training your team to negotiate better (even if it’s against you) - 37:45

10. Mark points out that there’s no substitute for practicing what you learn in books, courses, and podcasts - 42:20

11. Mads talks about the prestige and advantages that come from hosting groups - 47:30

Resources Mentioned:

The Career Toolkit

3D Negotiation

Bargaining for Advantage

Start with No

Getting to Yes by Roger Fisher

Never Split the Difference

Good for You Great for Me

Connect with Mark Herschberg:

The Career Toolkit