Can a Muslim university be an Indian university? These are the first words in Dr Laurence Gautier’s book Between Nation and ‘Community’ - Muslim Universities & Indian Politics after Partition, in which she explores the history, nature and contribution of India’s leading Muslim universities - Aligarh Muslim University (AMU) and Jamia Milia Islamia (JMI), two institutions which in her words acted, “as crucibles for competing conceptions of ‘Indian Muslimness’ in post-independence India.” 

This MBM conversation is with researcher and author, Laurence Gautier where we discuss how these universities, their members and students played key roles in recognising the needs of a new India in terms of education, nation-building and social reform. 

We dive deeper into debates and contestation of ideas around the Indian Muslim identity that continues to evolve and the ways in which many figures, men and women, both worked towards making it more encompassing and holistic, despite the internal and external challenges. The conversation also sheds some light on caste-based politics, women’s participation in universities, and the possible future roles of both these universities in the making of modern India. 

In this episode we use abbreviations - ‘AMU’ for Aligarh Muslim University and ‘JMI’ for Jamia Millia Islamia.

About Dr Laurence Gautier:

Laurence Gautier is a researcher at the Centre de Sciences Humaines (CSH), New Delhi. She completed her PhD in History at the University of Cambridge and taught at O.P. Jindal Global University, Sonipat before joining CSH. She writes on Muslim politics, secularism, nation-building and university politics in post-independence India. Between Nation and Community is her first monograph. She also co-edited Historicizing Sayyid-ness: Social Status and Muslim Identity in South Asia with Julien Levesque (JRAS, 2020).

Episode notes:

* Islamic Revival in British India: Deoband, 1860-1900 (Barbara D. Metcalfe, Princeton University Press, 1982)

* Emotions and Modernity in Colonial India: From Balance to Fervor (Margrit Pernau, Oxford University Press, 2019)

* Books by Mushirul Hasan

* Imagined Communities - Reflections on the Origin and Spread of Nationalism (Benedict Anderson, Verso Books)

* Rekhta

* Sajida Zaidi,celebrated Urdu writer,passes away at 84 (The Indian Express, March 2011)

* Zahida Zaidi writings (Rekhta)

* Social Exclusion of Muslims in India and Britain (Sabah Khan, Journal of Social Inclusion Studies Volume 6, Issue 1, June 2020)

* Mandal Commission Report (National Commission for Backward Classes

A Constitutional Body under Article 338B of the Constitution of India)

* Why caste among Muslims must be studied (Shireen Azam and Srinivas Goli, The Indian Express, May 2022)

* Gerda Philipsborn, the Lesser Known Maker of Jamia Millia Islamia (Mahtab Alam, The Wire, October 2021)

MBM visual identity design by Shazia Salam || Music by Jupneet Singh

This MBM conversation is with Nusrat Jafri, author of the memoir ‘This Land We Call Home’. In this book, Nusrat traces her maternal history going back to her great grand-father, who was originally part of the Bhantu tribe, and later adopted Christianity as a way to overcome the ostracisation imposed upon him and his family for belonging to what the British deemed as ‘criminal tribes’. 

Nusrat’s book offers a window into the lives and choices of her grand aunts, who with the help of Christian missionaries’ efforts got access to education and opportunities to become the first women to study in boarding schools, have varied career choices, travel abroad, marry or not by their own choices, and in effect become role models for her. She writes about her mother Meera, born in the year of India’s independence, who also carved a path of her own, fell in love with a Muslim man, decided to convert to Islam, and effectively raised Nusrat and her siblings in a Muslim household. 

This conversation takes a deeper dive into Nusrat’s years growing up in a cultural milieu where the term conversion was not a loaded one and where being a Muslim came with a space to ask questions to arrive at one's own answers. We talk about many layers of this Muslim identity, including gender, caste, class and how one carries their Muslimness in the world and country we find ourselves today. Do give this episode a listen and share it with your friends, family and loved ones.

About Nusrat Jafri

Nusrat Jafri, is a Mumbai based award-winning cinematographer. She has over fifteen years of experience in filmmaking. Born and brought up in Lucknow, she moved to New Delhi for graduation and post-graduation in Mass Communication. Her professional journey includes stints as a journalist with The Pioneer and CNBC Awaaz. Nusrat is a mentee of the first cohort (2021) of South Asia Speaks. She was featured in the second edition of Rising Beyond The Ceiling: 100 stereotype-shattering stories of Muslim women of Uttar Pradesh, India. She lives in Mumbai with her husband, son and a cat named Jamia.

You can learn about her book and find links to purchase here.

Episode Notes:

* From the memoir: How Bhantus, a ‘criminal tribe’, found acceptance from Christian missionaries (Excerpt from the book, This Land We Call Home by Nusrat Jafri, Scroll, June 2024)

* Ants Among Elephants: An Untouchable Family and the Making of Modern India by Sujatha Gidla (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2018)

* Understanding Ganga-Jamuni Tehzeeb: How diverse is the "Indian multiculturalism"(Rana Safvi, DNA, June 2014)

* “Many see Indian Muslims as suspect foreigners, despite the fact that most are descendants of Hindus who converted to Islam.” India’s Muslims: An Increasingly Marginalized Population (Lindsay Maizland, Council on Foreign Relations, March 2024)

* Chhattisgarh: Hindutva group attacks Christian families, forces to sign pact to ‘convert within ten days’ (Sidra Fatima, Maktoob Media, June 2024)

* Issue Update: India’s State Level Anti-Conversion Laws (United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, March 2023)

* Religious Composition of India - All religious groups in India show major declines in fertility rates, limiting change in the country’s religious composition over time (Pew Research Center, September 2021)

* 25 years later, long shadow of the Staines murders (Debabrata Mohanty, Hindustan Times, January 2024)

* Why caste among Muslims must be studied (by Shireen Azam and Srinivas Goli, The Indian Express, May 2022)

* Caste Among Indian Muslims Is a Real Issue. So Why Deny Them Reservation? (Pratik Patnaik, The Wire, December 2020)

MBM visual identity design by Shazia Salam || Music by Jupneet Singh

This conversation is with Nazia Akhtar, Assistant Professor at the Human Sciences Research Centre, International Institute of Information Technology, Hyderabad and the author of Bibi’s Room: Hyderabadi Women and Twentieth-Century Urdu Prose, in which she has profiled three prolific Hyderabadi Urdu writers, namely Zeenath Sajida, Najma Nikhat and Jeelani Bano. 

We discuss some of the most influential and invigorating writings by these women, notably stories like Sajida’s ‘If Allah Miyan Were A Woman’, which offers a critical and compassionate outlook of womanhood in negotiation with one’s Muslim beliefs, Nikhat’s writings that starkly brought out the behaviours and attitudes of feudal class, and Bano’s body of work spanning almost fifty years. We also discuss Dakhani as a language of the Deccan soil and ‘Begumati Zubaan’ that opens a world of its own through communications between women interacting with one another. Through this conversation, Nazia offers a nuanced understanding of the lives of these women in post-Independence decades in Hyderabad, who as Nazia puts were “thrice marginalised”. 

Bibi’s Room is an invaluable source of Indian Muslim women’s writings challenging patriarchal structures and norms within and outside their circles, and expands the canon of feminist Urdu writings in the country. Do give this episode a listen, and pick up the book, wherever you can.

About Nazia Akhtar (bio republished with permission by the author)

Nazia Akhtar is an Assistant Professor at the Human Sciences Research Centre, International Institute of Information Technology (IIIT), Hyderabad (India), where she teaches courses in Indian and Russian literatures. In 2017, she was awarded a New India Foundation fellowship to write a book on Urdu prose by Hyderabadi women. Bibi’s Room: Hyderabadi Women and Twentieth-Century Urdu Prose went into print in July 2022. She received a commendation from the jury of the Jawad Memorial Prize (2021) for her translation of Zeenath Sajida’s Urdu short story “Chhotam Jaan.” Her second book, The Deccan Sun: Essays and Stories by Zeenath Sajida (1924-2009), will be published by Penguin Random House in 2025.

What does it mean to be a Muslim woman from Bundelkhand living through its socio-economic and political realities? What are their aspirations and expectations from the upcoming elections? How do they imagine their futures as citizens of this country?

These are some questions that Main Bhi Muslim and Khabar Lahariya follow in this episode, speaking to Muslim women voters across Uttar Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh - mainly in Jhansi, Banda, Chitrakoot, Panna, and Ayodhya to listen to their aspirations, their hopes, and bear witness to their fears and anxieties.

These women across all age groups are homemakers, recent graduates, working women, community builders and social activists, who offer a deeper understanding of the on-ground realities of their society.

These interviews and recordings are mostly conducted by Khabar Lahariya’s Senior Reporter, Nazni Rizvi, with additional recordings by KL reporters Kumkum Yadav and Alima. In the episode, Nazni later shares her own views on interacting with these women some of whom chose to remain anonymous, whose voices are often less heard in the gamut of electoral politics but are ever important, especially now. She also shares instances of her own experiences as a journalist and a Muslim woman observing the change in norms and sentiments within the society she lives and works in.

Recent reports on issues and topics raised by women in the podcast:

* Unemployment: बेरोज़गारी की मार झेलता छतैनी गाँव पलायन करने को हुआ मजबूर | UP Elections 2022 (Khabar Lahariya, February 2022)

* Anti-Muslim violence and fear within community: “हिन्दू राष्ट्र” बनता भारत, लक्ष्य एक “मुस्लिमों को….”, सुरक्षा-आज़ादी सिर्फ एक धर्म के नाम (Sandhya, Khabar Lahariya, August 2023)

* Price hike of gas cylinders: वाराणसी: महंगे सिलिंडर ने लौटाए चूल्हे के दिन (Khabar Lahariya, November 2021)

* Vegetables price hike: हाय रे… महंगाई ने कमर तोड़ डाली (Khabar Lahariya, July 2023)

* House tax prices: चुनाव जीतने पर ख़त्म करूँगा हाउस टैक्स -प्रमोद सोनी उम्मीदवार | नगर निकाय चुनाव 2022 (Khabar Lahariya, November 2022)

* Absence of state support for people with disabilities: चित्रकूट : दिव्यांग परिवार को नहीं मिली आवास, शौचालय व पेंशन जैसी सुविधाएं (Khabar Lahariya, October 2022)

* Intertwined Hindu-Muslim religious sites at Jhansi: झांसी के दरगाह शरीफ में बना मंदिर-मज़ार है हिन्दू-मुस्लिम के प्रेम व एकता का प्रतीक (Sandhya, Khabar Lahariya, February 2024)

* Uttar Pradesh removes loudspeakers from religious sites (The Hindu, April 2022)

* Delhi Police suspend official caught on camera kicking Muslim men offering prayers (Independent, March 2024)

Do subscribe to MBM to receive more episodes and rate/review it wherever you listen to podcasts.

This episode is in collaboration with Khabar Lahariya - India’s only digital news network run by women from marginalised backgrounds reporting from the country’s hinterlands. Subscribe to KL Hatke to receive on-ground reportage by women journalists in rural India.

In this episode, MBM’s host Mariyam Haider is in conversation with Risana Rasheed from Kasargod, Kerala, who along with her twin sister, Ramseena, became the first women in their community to clear the JEE advanced, considered one of the toughest entrance exams, to enter the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT). Do check out EP27 with Ramseena Rasheed, to learn more about their early educational years and journeys.

This episode contains personal views of the guest regarding the said academic institution.

In this episode, Risana shares her coming of age story as a young woman, navigating priorities, lifestyle and identity choices, simply keeping one goal in mind - to build a life through academic achievement. After clearing IIT, Risana found herself in a new place, unlearning and learning aspects of herself, experiencing realities being perceived as a visible Muslim woman, especially coming from a non-Hindi speaking background into a predominantly North Indian setting.

Risana also offers a window into her experience at the campus, how her OBC background was brought into spotlight through caste-oriented questions by other students and the impact it had on her and those coming from other reserved categories. While Risana shares her personal experience and coping mechanisms to wade through her higher education and early career years, if you are a listener going through something similar, please do consider seeking professional counselling and community support.

About Risana Rasheed*

Risana Rasheed is a software engineer based in Bangalore, currently working at Harness.io. She pursued her Bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering from IIT Roorkee (2017-21 batch) and has previously held roles as an SDE at Amazon and Enphase Energy.

Her professional passion lies in crafting scalable, robust, and user-friendly software solutions. Outside of work, she immerses herself in various creative pursuits and enjoys exploring different parts of India, capturing experiences through travel content on Instagram. She also finds solace in creating paintings and finding fulfilment in assisting students with career guidance and counselling.

*Bio and image published with guest’s permission.

Episode notes:

* Child marriage awareness lacking in Kerala’s remote places: Justice Mustaque (The New Indian Express, February 2024)

* Risana Rasheed’s Instagram

* Mappila Muslim Culture - How a Historic Muslim Community in India Has Blended Tradition and Modernity by Roland E. Miller

* 1 Out Of 3 SC/ST Students Asked About Their Caste: IIT-Bombay 2022 Survey (Aakriti Handa, The Quint, April 2023)

* 33 IIT students died by suicide in last 5 years: Govt (The Indian Express, April 2023)

MBM visual identity design by Shazia Salam || Music by Jupneet Singh

In this episode, MBM’s host Mariyam Haider is in conversation with Ramseena Rasheed from Kasargod, Kerala, who along with her twin sister, Risana, became the first women in their community to clear Joint Entrance Examination (JEE)-advanced, considered one of the toughest entrance exams, to enter the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT).

Ramseena offers a window into her upbringing in a working-class family, the unconditional support from her parents, and wading through patriarchal attitudes of relatives and sexist or Islamophobic notions of teachers over the course of her schooling and engineering coaching. 

For Ramseena, her five years at IIT were filled with cultural exposure, tireless competition and a drive to find a job to financially support her family. Currently working in the corporate sector in Bengaluru, she shares many instances of her professional life through social media, and despite experiencing online trolling over her visible Muslim identity or views, Ramseena continues to offer advice and learnings to young career aspirants from her hometown and across the country. We discuss this and many more things that make Ramseena’s journey truly an inspiration for many young women in the country.

About Ramseena Rasheed

Ramseena Rasheed holds a BTech and MTech degree in Aerospace Engineering from IIT Kharagpur (2017-2022 batch). Currently, she is working as a backend developer for Aerospace software at AIRBUS, Bangalore, and is passionate about AI, ML related topics and their applications in the aerospace industry.

*Bio and image published with guest’s permission.

Episode notes:

* Inspiring Journey Of Twin Muslim IITian Sisters From Kasargod Draws Unwarranted Criticism On Social Media (Shahzeen Khan, The Observer Post, January ‘24)

* Ramseena Rasheed’s Instagram

In this conversation, MBM’s producer and host, Mariyam Haider speaks with Sulfath Laila and Gargi Harithakam, who are the co-founders of Vanaja Collective - that supports and helps couples from Kerala’s queer community, overcome their families’ resistance and find systemic avenues to bring them together. One of the successful cases that Vanaja Collective worked on was of Adhila Nasarin and Fathima Noora - who fought familial and legal challenges - to reunite and live together as a couple.

As a queer Muslim woman, Sulfath shares their journey growing up in a household that was largely driven by men and followed patriarchal norms and expectations. Over the years, Sulfath notes how they have derived support and strength from the women in her family, fought patriarchal mindsets and come together to tackle Muslim stereotypes and unjust rhetoric in other spaces. Sulfath also shares how queer voices from within Kerala’s Muslim community are emerging and voicing themselves in price marches and other public dialogues and initiatives.

Gargi discusses how ill-practices such as ‘conversion therapy’ continue to exist that harm the LGBTQI+ community and despite it being outlawed, is often used by families against their own kin. Gargi and Sulfath underline their commitment through Vanaja Collective towards expanding spaces of conversations and support for people from other marginalised backgrounds. We discuss how Malayalam cinema has a long way to go in showcasing stories with feminist characters and queer couples whose love stories do not end in misery or tragic circumstances. Finally, we engage in ways that listeners can support Vanaja Collective’s fundraising efforts and stay connected with them. All details are mentioned on MBM’s website.

You can support Vanaja Collective’s ongoing fundraiser by donating through the link here: https://milaap.org/fundraisers/support-the-organisation-4

Episode notes:

* Kerala student dies in Goa, death puts focus on inhuman 'conversion therapy' on queer people (Cris, The News Minute, May 2020)

* ‘Conversion therapy’ still continues in India, despite a ban (Sukanya Shaji, The News Minute, August 2023)

* Kerala study reveals 45% prevalence of conversion therapy among LGBTQIA+ persons (Cris, The News Minute, February 2023)

* Kerala's lesbian couples share heart-warming photos from a memorable get-together (Onmanorama, July 2023)

* Queer Representation In Malayalam Cinema: The Past, The Present, And The Possible Future (Rhea F, Feminism In India, July 2023)

* The youth of Kerala want to make gay marriage legal (Mathrubhumi, March 2021)

* Malayalam films that tried to explore LGBTQ+ representation (Pooja Pillai, Pink Lungi, September 2023)

* Movies discussed in the episode:

* Desatanakkili Karayarilla (1986)

* Sancharram (2004)

* Moothon (2019)

* The Great Indian Kitchen (2021)

* Badhaai Do (2022)

* Queerphobia in Kerala: A Student Fights For Gender Identity on College Campus (Smitha TK, The Quint, December 2022)

* Kerala: Lesbian Couple’s Harrowing Journey Shines Light on Continuing Dangers of ‘Conversion Therapy’ (Mrudula Bhavani, The Wire, July 2023)

* Kerala lesbian couple separated by parents, united by High Court, drops a viral bridal photoshoot (Shaurya Thapa, DailyO, November 2022)

MBM visual identity design by Sunakshi Nigam || Music by Jupneet Singh

Main Bhi Muslim’s last episode of the year is with the spirited and incredible human being, Sabika Abbas, aka @boltiaurat on Instagram.

Sabika is a poet, organiser, SEL educator and story-teller. Her work revolves around issues of gender, minority rights and justice. She performs in public spaces, edits anthologies, translates and is constantly working on at least five dreamy or nonsensical side projects. If not for her work, she would be a full time stand-up comic or leading a cult of ‘doing nothing’. After working with change.org and Fearless Collective, Sabika, is currently the Organising and Campaigns Lead at Noor.* 

In this episode, Sabika takes us down her memory lane growing up in a mosque complex in Lucknow, how her Muslim upbringing has shaped her view of life and helped in using her voice against injustice and oppression. We discuss her journey being a poet performing on the streets and how her poems belong to the people and streets she shares them with. Sabika also talks about the current realities for Indian Muslims and the constant reconciliations one does when the country one is born in and belongs to, denies it acceptance and protection. Finally, we talk about love of all kinds, how kindred friendships keep our hearts and souls warm, and ending with a beautiful poem by Sabika talking about what being a lover means to her in current times. 

This episode is recorded to commemorate and celebrate the anniversary** of the 2019 Shaheen Bagh protests led by Indian Muslim women. Do give this episode a listen, share it within your circles and recognise your part in standing up for justice and liberation for all.

*Bio republished with permission by the guest.

**The episode host mistakenly says third anniversary of the Shaheen Bagh protests in the conversation. This year marks the fourth anniversary. The error is regretted.

Episode notes:

* How Pro-BJP WhatsApp, Facebook Groups Are Using the Israel-Hamas War to Stoke Islamophobia (Kunal Purohit, The Wire, October, 2023)

* India terror law haunts Muslims jailed since 2020 for Delhi riots (Hanan Zaffar and Danish Pandit, Al Jazeera, February, 2023) 

* US Commission on International Religious Freedom (names of political prisoners mentioned in the episode)

* Gulfisha Fatima

* Umar Khalid 

* Khalid Saifi 

* Natasha Narwal 

* Devangana Kalita 

* Siddique Kappan: India journalist walks out of jail after 2 years (Al Jazeera, February, 2023)

* Why Shaheen Bagh protests are an important moment in India’s history (Elizabeth Puranam, Al Jazeera, February, 2020)

* Building allyship & solidarity through shared tiffins - a childhood memory, present-day friendships and action-filled hope to tide over hate and othering (Mariyam Haider, Substack, August, 2023)

* Sabika Abbas Naqvi: Reclaiming public spaces through poetry (INKtalks, February, 2020)

* ‘Bulli Bai’, 'Sulli Deals': On Being Put Up for ‘Auction’ as an Indian Muslim Woman (Mariya Salim, The Wire, January, 2022)

* ‘Auction’ of India’s Muslim women shows tech weaponised for abuse (Al Jazeera, January, 2022)

In this MBM conversation, Mariyam Haider speaks to Zoya who identify as a “They/Them with a She/Her vibe” and defines themselves as a “queer soul with the vibrant hues of a Transwoman, embracing the diverse rhythms of life.” In this episode, Zoya shares their journey exploring gender fluidity, and discusses how this exploration has enabled them to have more meaningful relationships. They also share their relationship with their Indian Muslim identity and the ways it shows up in their life.

A DEI professional, Zoya sheds light on the challenges and opportunities present within the corporate spaces, the Supreme Court ruling that failed to grant same-sex couples marriage rights in India, and the responsibilities of allies across the board.

Finally, we talk about finding love and discuss the role of queer and minority representation in certain Hindi movies and the recent Amazon series, Made In Heaven, Season 2. This month in which we observe Trans Awareness Week and Transgender Day of Remembrance, do give this episode a listen and share it with your loved ones.

Episode notes

* Faith & Queerness: Finding The Intersection Between Religion And Homosexuality ((Gaysi), 2 August, 2022)

* SC Refuses to Legalise Marriage Equality, 2 of 5 Judges Say Queer Couples Must Be Given Legal Rights (The Wire, 17 October, 2023)

* NATIONAL LEGAL SERVICES AUTHORITY (NALSA) VS. UNION OF INDIA (South Asian Trans Law Database, Centre for Law and Policy Research)

* Full NALSA Judgement 2014

* Breaking news: India falls short to granting marriage rights to same-sex couples but the Chief Justice articulated unprecedented assertion of queerness and trans rights in verdict (Fabrice Houdart, Substack, 17 October, 2023)

* Nepal Courts Refuse to Register Same-Sex Marriages - Lower Courts Defy Supreme Court Order (Human Rights Watch, October 10, 2023)

* How Made in Heaven Tests Limits of Secular, Liberal Imagination of Muslim Women (Zehra Mehdi, The Quint, 2 September 2023)

In this conversation, Mariyam Haider is joined by two of Parcham’s footballers and licensed coaches, 21-year old Madina Bi and 19-year old Fatima Shaikh.

Mumbra-based, Madina and Fatima share their journeys with football and negotiating with family members to make it part of their lives. While Madina’s parents are understanding and supportive, Fatema had and continues to have a difficult relationship with her family when it comes to her aspirations.

Listeners discretion is advised as this episode mentions instances of physical violence, and the notes of this interview have time-codes, in case listeners want to be aware of them before listening (9.46 and 21.59 min)*. 

We discuss the challenges that the girls and other female footballers face in Mumbra to practise football, the need for more administrative and corporate support in maintaining the Fatima Bi Savitri Bai Ground for girls, and what more can be done for Mumbra’s aspiring sports women. 

They both offer a breadth of understanding around Muslim women’s dreams, their stand against sometimes violent patriarchal systems, and the tireless negotiation for spaces they occupy as young women.

Madina dreams and aspires to join the Gokulam Kerala Football Club and Fatema wants to keep learning and playing, as she continues to also support her family financially. This Independence Day, give this episode a listen, hear the voices of two inspiring and talented Indian Muslim women, who are fighting the fight against all odds that stand in front of them to live their football dreams. 

*At these time-codes, there are mentions of physical violence.

Episode notes and associated references:

* Why the Parcham Collective is fighting for a football ground for Mumbra’s girls (Mint Lounge, October, 2021)

* The remarkable story of Jammu and Kashmir footballer Afshan Ashiq (Hindustan Times, 2017)

* For the love of the game: Indian women defy sexism, abuse to chase football dream (South China Morning Post, December, 2022)

* Sports for Peace, Sports for Empowerment (Parcham Collective)

Visual identity design by Sunakshi Nigam || Music by Jupneet Singh